*Official* FM 13 Update 13.2.3 - Match Engine v1339 Constructive Discussion & Feedback

[johnhughthom]

Does anyone else find you cannot appropriately reply to manager comments?

For example, "FC Bayern really don't look like title contenders to me."

I am sitting at the top after 20 games 13 point clear. However, when I go to reply I can only say that I'd rather talk about another subject. Well actually no, I'd like to say I'm confident of winning it.

I always decline to comment when another manager makes a comment on me, yet a couple of times the manager of our rivals has come out and said ".... would think twice about mind games in future' after beating me. Unless he takes my silence as a form of mind games?

Best thing was, last time it happened we had a Cup final against them the next week, let's just say I was rather less coy with the press after that.

And yes, I've had that title contender thing quite a bit. Including once before a game in which I only needed a draw to clinch the title, with 9 games of the season left...

[iMan]

Does anyone else find you cannot appropriately reply to manager comments?

For example, "FC Bayern really don't look like title contenders to me."

I am sitting at the top after 20 games 13 point clear. However, when I go to reply I can only say that I'd rather talk about another subject. Well actually no, I'd like to say I'm confident of winning it.

It's stupid.

I remember in 12 I beat Malaga 6-0 away from home in the CL knock outs and Pellgerni said before the 2nd ''Thery're dreaming if they think they can win this''

I just beat you 6-0 in the first leg you idiot.

[Kriss]

Does anyone else find you cannot appropriately reply to manager comments?

For example, "FC Bayern really don't look like title contenders to me."

I am sitting at the top after 20 games 13 point clear. However, when I go to reply I can only say that I'd rather talk about another subject. Well actually no, I'd like to say I'm confident of winning it.

Almost all the interaction modules need vast expansion and more logic in the way comments are triggered, probably the least exciting part of the game to work on but it needs a lot of hours put in if it's ever to feel realistic and spontaneous.

Mind you it does seem sophisticated compared with e.g. Civ5

[Deloma]

I'm Man Utd and here are results of my last 10 games

Burnely (H) 8-0

Wst Brom (H) 5-0

HJK (H) 11-0

Newcastle (A) 1-1

Man City (A) 1-1

Fulham (H) 5-1

Everton (H) 5-1

Hudersfiled (H) 5-0

Charlton (H) 5-2

Swansea (A) 4-0

I'm undefeated for 19 games in the league and I have scored 58 goals and conceeded 13. (+45)

I'm sorry but the engine is pretty bad at the current state. I know I'm leading on of the biggest clubs but cmon look at the scores above. How often do you see Man Utd run over opponents in such fashion.

One game here and there fine but 8 home games in a row? I sure won't be rushing to buy next FM... This engine needs vast improvement.

[forameuss]

I know, shocking that a top team should win most of their games...

[tts0]

I know it's a little bit off topic but I'm wondering about this whole AI cheating thing and must say that it seems like these things happen in FM. Im big football fan and watched tousands of tousands of matches and saw a lot FM-a-like games but these whole things happen far too often in FM - especialy to the user's team. I don't know what is the reason for that? Making the game more challenging? Don't be foolish! It makes the game more FRUSTRATING! I ve been playing a Real Madrid career for a while and just can't uderstand how the hell such great players need to shoot 20+ times on goal to score max 1-2 goals so often? And how the hell I can't beat Barcelona despite my enormous advantage in ball possesion, shots, one on ones, free kick etc. in every game against them? It seems imposible to beat their goalkeeper - Valdes! Once I had a match with Barca downed to 9 man and managed to loose it, despite 40 + shots on goal(most of them saved in a miraculous way)!! It just can't be my tactics

[Deloma]

I know, shocking that a top team should win most of their games...

Would you please read my post instead of jumping to conclusions and trying to be a smart a**. I don't have any issues with Man Utd winning the games but the high scorelines that I win my games with.

I have either found a killer tactic that exploits one or several flaws in the engine or the engine itself is not balanced properly. Either way it's not fun.

Here are the official result from Man Utd last games

13 Jan Barclays Premier League Liverpool H 13:30 2 - 1

16 Jan FA Cup West Ham H 20:05 1 - 0

20 Jan Barclays Premier League Tottenham Hotspur A 16:00 1 - 1

26 Jan FA Cup Fulham H 17:30 4 - 1

30 Jan Barclays Premier League Southampton H 20:00 2 - 1

February 2013

02 Feb Barclays Premier League Fulham A 17:30 1 - 0

10 Feb Barclays Premier League Everton H 16:00 2 - 0

13 Feb Champions League Real Madrid A 19:45 1 - 1

18 Feb FA Cup Reading H 20:00 2 - 1

23 Feb Barclays Premier League Queens Park Rangers A 15:00 2 - 0

How many High Scoring wins do you see IRL? I can see one against Fulham in 9 games. How many do you see in my table above??? When was the last time Man Utd beat anyone 11-0 or 8-0? If you don't have to say anything constructive then please don't reply either.

I'm trying to show that something is wrong here and that I see a pattern.

To give you an idea, here are the official Man Utd Records

10–1 v Wolverhampton Wanderers, First Division, 15 October 1892

9–0 v Walsall, Second Division, 3 April 1895

9–0 v Darwen, Second Division, 24 December 1898

9–0 v Ipswich Town, Premier League, 4 March 1995

Last time Man Utd beat a team with 8+ goals was 18 years ago. I had two such wins over couple of weeks.

[Kraftwerk]

There's a clear improvement in the ME but it's still poor by FM's standards imo. There's just nothing you can do about stopping crosses which is pretty much all I concede from. It's either crossed in for a tap in far post or crossed near post, my defender stupidly controls it, gets tackled and it gets blasted into the net. I've been setting my players to man mark the opponents main threats but all that does is leave absolutely massive gaps for other players to exploit. I'm really struggling here.

[Rashidi]

There's a clear improvement in the ME but it's still poor by FM's standards imo. There's just nothing you can do about stopping crosses which is pretty much all I concede from. It's either crossed in for a tap in far post or crossed near post, my defender stupidly controls it, gets tackled and it gets blasted into the net. I've been setting my players to man mark the opponents main threats but all that does is leave absolutely massive gaps for other players to exploit. I'm really struggling here.

Get better players who can read crosses intercept them, get better defenders who have good concentration and positioning, get fullbacks who have better acceleration and dont get skinned, train your team on tactics so they have better composure. I cover all the bases and dont get beat on crosses. What i dont like about FM isnt me related its the whole interaction module. The fact that i prefer to leave media interaction to my assman suggests that there is no immersion value here.

There are some niggling quirks in the match engine but so far the interaction modules need more work and how the AI team trains their players based on roles needs more attention. The former needs work for FM14, but the latter should be fixed prior to the data update

[Zaltys]

Some things the players do just don't make sense, and AI teams are *almost* immune to them. And AI knowing (regardless how good the manager is) exactly how to fix them at will could be considered cheating. It's not literally cheating, but it's unfair.

That I agree with.

Good AI managers should of course be able to easily adapt to changes and figure out how to counter your tactics, but even the bad ones seem too good at it. Always changing formations/tactics on fly. I don't think it happens as often in real life as it does in this game. At least not in the lower leagues.

In FM13 I learned early on to switch the formations every second or third game. I've had a lot more success since I started juggling between three regular tactics and kept the opposition guessing. But it kinda feels like I'm exploiting the AI: I know that it is prepared for my old tactics, so fielding a different formation gives me an unfair edge. It's like playing Rock-Paper-Scissors with someone who always starts with rock. :/

[PaulC]

So we are back to the old AI cheating rubbish now then?

Don't buy into it folks, its nonsense.

Status is that this is the final ME code for the 13 cycle as its time for the ME team to turn our attentions to the next release this autumn. We'd like to thank all of you who provided constructive feedback over recent months and helped us get to where we are now.

[Zaltys]

So we are back to the old AI cheating rubbish now then?

As has been said several times: not literal cheating.

AI just knows how to effectively counter something. Too effectively in some cases. But on the other hand, as I mentioned above, that makes it predictable and easily exploited by the player.

I'd like to see some AI managers sticking to their favorite formation more frequently and in general I'd like to see more unpredictability from some managers. I can't remember the last time I was surprised by the AI.

[Chris2509]

So we are back to the old AI cheating rubbish now then?

Don't buy into it folks, its nonsense.

Status is that this is the final ME code for the 13 cycle as its time for the ME team to turn our attentions to the next release this autumn. We'd like to thank all of you who provided constructive feedback over recent months and helped us get to where we are now.

Disappointing. The current ME isn't playable.

[stevemc]

Disappointing. The current ME isn't playable.

I'm playing it!

[SRL88]

Disappointing. The current ME isn't playable.

When Paul related to constructive feedback, this isn't.

The ME is playable, although I admit there are the odd things which need work on.

[tomtuck01]

The ME has been playable since the game was released.

Yeah it had a few issuses before the recent updates, and no doubt still does. But to say it is, or ever was, unplayable is laughable.

[Rashidi]

Disappointing. The current ME isn't playable.

There are a few things in the me that aren't perfect, but wait..hangon..football isn't perfect is it? If people are expecting the game to play according to their expectations, then we would should also have an army of people storming up to Anfield to remove Brendan Rodgers and there should be another army heading to Maine Road to remove Mancini, I mean who would have thought that Manchester Utd was going to be 15 points clear. And btw we should also fine Manchester United, cos no team should ever play that well. Oh yeah and Barca should never have lost to celtic, and yeah should never have lost again at home..jeez.

[Dagenham_Dave]

I have either found a killer tactic that exploits one or several flaws in the engine or the engine itself is not balanced properly. Either way it's not fun.

You haven't said what season you're in, or what your starting XI is. It could be you're a few seasons into the game, and due to Man Utd's massive wealth, have built an almost unbeatable side. The AI will never be able to compete with a human in terms of proper team building. With a top class side, it's pretty easy to get those types of scorelines within a few seasons.

If you're bored with that, why not try taking over a lower league team, and try taking them up through the leagues.

[pigfacemonkeyman]

There is a consistent trend in this thread of people who download tactics ranting and raving about the quality of the ME and the impossibility of tactical control. These people need to take two things into account.

Firstly, super-tactics nearly always take advantage of a hole in the ME to work. If you employ one that worked in the previous patch, don't be surprised if results are a lottery. These tactics have little to no logic in them and only target a certain aspect of the ME to score goals.

Secondly, we have no choice but to take your criticism with a large pinch of salt. As you are downloading tactics, you haven't actually made any attempt to understand the tactical module. You will have no understanding of how the concepts work and relate. Consequently, your determination that the ME is terrible is next to worthless in a constructive, critical sense.

As always, my advice is to give up on downloading super-tactics and learn to play the game yourself. If you have even the most basic understanding of how football works, then you should quickly be able to develop a reasonable tactic. If you don't, then there are hundreds of people on these forums willing and able to help you. Once you have grasped the fundamentals, you will a) never need to download a tactic again and b) enjoy FM far more than you did previously.

And if I hear one more "I don't have time to do this, I have a wife and family" excuse I'll scream. If you don't have time to read two or three posts that help you grasp the basics, then you sure as hell don't have time to search and test all the super-tactics and their wondrous claims. It is also a complete myth that it takes longer to play FM this way. Most people who grasp the fundamentals play far more quickly than they ever did when constantly tweaking tactics this way and that way.

Furthermore, stop replaying games multiple times. There's nothing more stressful than trying and failing to win the same game over and over again. Failing to win it proves nothing except that you don't know what you are doing, and finally winning it might just be a lucky fluke that hasn't actually advanced your knowledge at all. You might end up thinking that a tactical tweak you made is the answer to all your problems, only to discover it imbalances all kinds of other things in other matches.

The enjoyment of FM is completely in your own hands. Up to you whether you want to walk down that road.

Was this not what started you on the path to enlightenment and creation?

[Althaz]

So, what you're saying is that if I make a basic tactic from the ones in the database, tweak it (not much) to fit my players better and to limit the chance of stupidity (no hold up ball in midfield for example) and create 3 versions for different situations (based on logic and FM experience), I should have basically the same tactical "power" as AI does? Interesting. Then how come, if the AI suffers the same preseason headaches, my team plays stupid and poor passing football and a much worse AI plays almost a perfectly executed counter attacking football?

Almost certainly because some or all of the changes you were made were stupid/bad . You've made a clear mistake - choose a default tactic, set up some player roles that suit your TEAM (not just individual players) and motivate your side correctly, and you will be ridiculously successful.

You are making manual tweaks (almost always bad) that don't make footballing sense (an awful lot of real-life sides hold up the ball in midfield) and wondering why the AI that uses realistic tactics setup by SI plays better football? The reason is because they have a better manager.

[mexamoxa]

Finally had some time to start a new save under this new patch!

I must say it is much better. Best ME this year and I thank SI for their work although I cannot accept the way the game was released, like I said in a post of mine back in Xmas, we are customers and not beta testers and games have to be released with a lot more polish. But putting that aside I am happy with the current ME. There are minor gripes though but I can live with them perfectly as simulating something like a football match is almost impossible to get it to look 100% like a real game.

One thing that does bug me (a lot) is the difference between my ratio of shots-on-goal / goal and the opposition's ratio. Before the "it's your tactics" users arrive, last patch I had a very successful career with Ajax where I never finished a season without some kind of silverware. This is happening again with Porto on this patch. So, I win games. In fact, my percentage is always close to 80% win on all matches so i'm not complaining per se. But it is annoying that the great majority of matches I get ~10 shots on goal and score 2 or 3. The opposing team finishes matches with 3 shots on goal and they score 1 or 2. This happens to me too often, happened on the last patch and is happening now.

I play a very attacking 4-1-2-2-1 wide and my teams are goal scoring machines. But to sit there and watch my team fail to score so many chances and then see the opposition score 50% of their shots on target is *rolleyes*. So my games end 4-1, 5-2, etc when my forwards are having a good day and draw/lose when not. Honest assumption, is this to make it more challenging? Because I do walk over the domestic league and this issue doesn't seem to happen in the CL where the teams are a lot stronger. It would make sense that Man Utd convert 50% of their chances but they don't. On the other hand, small domestic clubs seem to have Falcão as their strikers!

Hope I made my "issue" clear and sensible. But, again, I find this ME good and this is the way it should have been released (don't forget that SI!). I give it 86%! I would give it 92% if you had toned down the damn woodwork hitting already!!

Cheers!

[Guest]

Midway though the 1st half I decided to change tactics as my 4231 isn't working, for nearly 70 minutes I've been playing an AMC at the centre of my back 3 :o, despite this obvious howler on my part the opposition failed to target the obvious weak link.

That can't be good.

[johnhughthom]

Midway though the 1st half I decided to change tactics as my 4231 isn't working, for nearly 70 minutes I've been playing an AMC at the centre of my back 3 :o, despite this obvious howler on my part the opposition failed to target the obvious weak link.

That can't be good.

Maybe they just thought you were going all retro and using a libero.

[Kingofpilot]

So we are back to the old AI cheating rubbish now then?

Don't buy into it folks, its nonsense.

It´s hard not to buy in that nonsense because when someone raises a certain point about AI cheating, he is dissmissed by someone saying: Utter rubbish, nonsense etc. - not very valid arguments, right? It has been in fm for ages that user has 20+ shots and cant score and AI happilly scores from left to right. Superkeeper matches when you simply cant beat the keeper. I mentioned my experience when I changed attributes of akeeper to minimum and he still performed like God. My question about it and how was that possible was not answered, only one moderator said - rubbish. Dont blame players for believing in cheating when you do not offer valid explanations.

[johnhughthom]

It´s hard not to buy in that nonsense because when someone raises a certain point about AI cheating, he is dissmissed by someone saying: Utter rubbish, nonsense etc. - not very valid arguments, right? It has been in fm for ages that user has 20+ shots and cant score and AI happilly scores from left to right. Superkeeper matches when you simply cant beat the keeper. I mentioned my experience when I changed attributes of akeeper to minimum and he still performed like God. My question about it and how was that possible was not answered, only one moderator said - rubbish. Dont blame players for believing in cheating when you do not offer valid explanations.

This happens to the player's benefit too, except when it does we don't rush here to complain about it.

[Kingofpilot]

This happens to the player's benefit too, except when it does we don't rush here to complain about it.

No way, absolutely no way has AI consistently more shots than I do and has such a hard time scoring. I´ve encountered this issue since fm 2006 and so have many other players, it has even been mentioned in official game reviews in my country etc. It is a well known "feature" of fm.

[johnhughthom]

No way, absolutely no way has AI consistently more shots than I do and has such a hard time scoring. I´ve encountered this issue since fm 2006 and so have many other players, it has even been mentioned in official game reviews in my country etc. It is a well known "feature" of fm.

No, it doesn't happen consistently, because the AI rarely dominates games as often as the user. When I use a small club and come up against bigger teams I get this happening for me quite often. It's simply defending well enough and frustrating the opponent into taking a lot of long shots which are very unlikely to lead to goals. This inflates the stats, and is pretty much the 'superkeeper' effect that so many people complain about. If it keeps happening to you, you need to look at why. Yes, it is your tactics.

Games in which your team actually makes a load of clear chances and missed them are rare in my experience, no more than two or three a season. But of course, I appear to be playing a different game from a lot of people in the forums.

[Kingofpilot]

No, it doesn't happen consistently, because the AI rarely dominates games as often as the user. When I use a small club and come up against bigger teams I get this happening for me quite often. It's simply defending well enough and frustrating the opponent into taking a lot of long shots which are very unlikely to lead to goals. This inflates the stats, and is pretty much the 'superkeeper' effect that so many people complain about. If it keeps happening to you, you need to look at why. Yes, it is your tactics.

Games in which your team actually makes a load of clear chances and missed them are rare in my experience, no more than two or three a season. But of course, I appear to be playing a different game from a lot of people in the forums.

Iam not speaking about goalkeepers who catch 50 shots from 50 yrads, Iam speaking about clear cut chances being squandered and missed extremely often and keepers who miraculousuly teleport themselves from near post to far post in a matter of miliseconds. Fm 2012 was the worst in that. I always said : This games frustrates me because i dont score from 5 one on ones in a single match but then i score from a flukey corner or deflection. This years has been far better with the diversity of goals scored but I still have to create far more chances than AI to score despite me having perhaps the best strikers in the world. If developers explained this issue better instead of saing its rubbish it would be better, believe me. I have no problem accepting that I was wrong if someone presents valid argument. So far, i have seen none, or very few.

[johnhughthom]

Iam not speaking about goalkeepers who catch 50 shots from 50 yrads, Iam speaking about clear cut chances being squandered and missed extremely often and keepers who miraculousuly teleport themselves from near post to far post in a matter of miliseconds. Fm 2012 was the worst in that. I always said : This games frustrates me because i dont score from 5 one on ones in a single match but then i score from a flukey corner or deflection. This years has been far better with the diversity of goals scored but I still have to create far more chances than AI to score despite me having perhaps the best strikers in the world. If developers explained this issue better instead of saing its rubbish it would be better, believe me. I have no problem accepting that I was wrong if someone presents valid argument. So far, i have seen none, or very few.

You do realise a lot of evidence has been posted here that only around 1 in 4 of 1 on 1s are actually scored in real life? So missing 5 is not that unrealistic.

[Kingofpilot]

You do realise a lot of evidence has been posted here that only around 1 in 4 of 1 on 1s are actually scored in real life? So missing 5 is not that unrealistic.

No I havent seen this statistic here. That would be a very good argument against my theory - definitely better than saying - rubbish. It s funny that I found i thread here from 2010 where people complain that too many chances are created and in order to keep the ammount of goals on realistic level the game force players to miss a lot of chances and since it is usuall the user who ha more chances then he is the victim of that.

[mexamoxa]

No, it doesn't happen consistently, because the AI rarely dominates games as often as the user. When I use a small club and come up against bigger teams I get this happening for me quite often. It's simply defending well enough and frustrating the opponent into taking a lot of long shots which are very unlikely to lead to goals. This inflates the stats, and is pretty much the 'superkeeper' effect that so many people complain about. If it keeps happening to you, you need to look at why. Yes, it is your tactics.

Games in which your team actually makes a load of clear chances and missed them are rare in my experience, no more than two or three a season. But of course, I appear to be playing a different game from a lot of people in the forums.

I'm sorry to hijack your conversation but I'm afraid I must tell you not to judge other players situations based on your experience with the game. What he is saying is a valid point and I raised it as well on my post: the opposing team scores too often compared to our team, whoever they might be. Based on MY experience with this year's game, you can be playing against an amateur side and they will score 50%+ of their chances whilst you squander chances away. Yes, I still win 5-3 but isn't it annoying? And this happens too many times, you say twice a season, I laugh. Twice a season i draw or lose because of this but the issue IS STILL THERE throughout my wins. Bury your head in the sand all you want but this happens.

[themadsheep2001]

Speaking of which. There was a thread on this last year. lots of people contributed ito it, proved the user is capable of/and generally is a better chance converter than the AI

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/303143-Why-is-the-AI-so-much-better-at-finishing

but if you want to skip most of the thread, read from here: http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/303143-Why-is-the-AI-so-much-better-at-finishing?p=7731506&viewfull=1#post7731506 to http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/303143-Why-is-the-AI-so-much-better-at-finishing?p=7732901&viewfull=1#post7732901

[themadsheep2001]

You do realise a lot of evidence has been posted here that only around 1 in 4 of 1 on 1s are actually scored in real life? So missing 5 is not that unrealistic.

Yup the best conversion rate for anything described as a clear cut chance is about 1 in 3. for shots on target in general, it's about 20% give or take.

[Blackphoenix]

I don't think the Ai cheats... sure there are some games where you rub your nose about something extremely unlikely (like losing 2-0 to a team, where both their goals were made from direct free kicks from a player with 12 in free kicks...) but what we most see in games is just the AI using its tactics extremely well, something that most of us (including me) can't replicate fully. We have alot of possession or attack alot but in the end that single counter attack made by the AI is enough to "kill" the match.

It's frustrating, no doubts, when this happens so many times but unfortunatly we are up against a very tough AI.

Like i said in a previous post, its, in my opinion, a bit too much for the "normal" fm player that doesnt want/have time to spend hours studying tactics but it is what it is, we just have to get around this and hope that in the next edition we see a more "balanced" AI.

An idea, that would probably help with this, is to connect the AI performance with the capability of the opponent manager, a manager with, for example, 10 in tactical knowledge would maybe be less efective in terms of tactics and in how their are deployed in the match.

[Kingofpilot]

Speaking of which. There was a thread on this last year. lots of people contributed ito it, proved the user is capable of/and generally is a better chance converter than the AI

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/303143-Why-is-the-AI-so-much-better-at-finishing

but if you want to skip most of the thread, read from here: http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/303143-Why-is-the-AI-so-much-better-at-finishing?p=7731506&viewfull=1#post7731506 to http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/303143-Why-is-the-AI-so-much-better-at-finishing?p=7732901&viewfull=1#post7732901

I do not see how they proved anything.

[RTHerringbone]

I do not see how they proved anything.

You read it all very quickly.

Are you somebody who "hears" or someone who "listens"?

[themadsheep2001]

I do not see how they proved anything.

You mean apart from the fact he had the best conversion rate of any side he faced, and that even the AI's best couldn't even get close to what a user was generating, and that what he was actually getting punished on was a flaw in his approach that would often leave him highly susceptible on the counter?

[wwfan]

Took it as deliberate trolling. You can't write what he wrote in post #1371 then follow it up with post #1382 unless you are trying to provoke a negative response.

Let's move on past the ridiculous cheating / no evidence argument.

[Fowler-9]

honestly.. im finding the game infuriating since the new patch... spent hours designed a exciting tactic to watch, getting some decent but not un-realistic scoreline's and the new patch has just completely taken the enjoyment out of the tactic.. my winger's who are set to "run with the ball often" generally dont.. wont even try take a player on and a generally not worth the place on the pitch.. the first season they both got around 15 a piece.. (when you consider they're both have dribbling of 17/18, pace 16/17 and technique's of 15-18) 2nd season (on the new patch) 4 between them!! even using the shout "run at defence" does very little to improve this.. (on the bright side player's like C Ronaldo and Messi should also have poor performances given the fact the M.E. has been tweaked to negate player's who dribble..

also the feedback panel (top right corner of the match engine) no longer works at all.. and that came in useful..

to be honest though what is really annoying me is the fact that updating to the latest patch is no longer my choice as a consumer, at least with the old system if a patch was affecting my enjoyment of the game i could simply re-install upto the patch version I enjoyed.. having been a loyal customer of SI's since CM 94/95 this could well be the last FM i purchase..

[johnhughthom]

I'm sorry to hijack your conversation but I'm afraid I must tell you not to judge other players situations based on your experience with the game. What he is saying is a valid point and I raised it as well on my post: the opposing team scores too often compared to our team, whoever they might be. Based on MY experience with this year's game, you can be playing against an amateur side and they will score 50%+ of their chances whilst you squander chances away. Yes, I still win 5-3 but isn't it annoying? And this happens too many times, you say twice a season, I laugh. Twice a season i draw or lose because of this but the issue IS STILL THERE throughout my wins. Bury your head in the sand all you want but this happens.

Pot. Kettle. Black.

[wwfan]

Was this not what started you on the path to enlightenment and creation?

No. I replayed it even after I won, so I could understand why I won and repeat the win consistently, not repeat until I won and them move on. Not the same thing because my focus was learning how sliders worked, not trying to win a single game I felt I should win.

I didn't enjoy it very much either, which was kind of my point.

[mexamoxa]

Pot. Kettle. Black.

Again. Nothing. To. Counter. With.

[johnhughthom]

Again. Nothing. To. Counter. With.

How can I counter? You told me not to judge other players based on my own experience with the game, and proceeded to do exactly that to me.

Apart from the fact I wasn't judging him, how else can I base my opinion on the game other than my own experience? One where I don't miss an unreasonable amount of chances. An experience that understands chances created against an attacking line up are more likely to be clear cut than those created against a line up set to defend and frustrate.

[Kriss]

having been a loyal customer of SI's since CM 94/95 this could well be the last FM i purchase..

Hmmm, so that's how "loyalty" works, I always wondered

[Guest]

The original CM is becoming one of those seminal moments in history, everyone is claiming they were there.

I am starting to notice more of the lofted through ball attempts now that I'm managing in a higher division, hardly ever saw them in Blue Square but is quite common in League 1.

[Äktsjon Männ]

I'm sorry to hijack your conversation but I'm afraid I must tell you not to judge other players situations based on your experience with the game. What he is saying is a valid point and I raised it as well on my post: the opposing team scores too often compared to our team, whoever they might be. Based on MY experience with this year's game, you can be playing against an amateur side and they will score 50%+ of their chances whilst you squander chances away. Yes, I still win 5-3 but isn't it annoying? And this happens too many times, you say twice a season, I laugh. Twice a season i draw or lose because of this but the issue IS STILL THERE throughout my wins. Bury your head in the sand all you want but this happens.

It happens to you, but doesn't happen to me. Is your copy of the game somehow different from mine? Or maybe it's something you do? Who's burying their head in the sand exactly?

[Kriss]

As there are to be no more ME updates for FM13 and as I'm absolutely certain all the issues (real and imagined:)) have now been brought to light and discussed to death I'm closing this.

If you do spot anything hitherto unseen or have further evidence on existing problems please post in the bugs forum.

Thanks for the "lively" debate.