Football Manager 2020 Feedback Thread

[Toshevbgg]

Currently in the Premier League: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/top-scorers

Vardy 29 Shots On Target 17 Goals 58%

Ings 21 Shots On Target 13 Goals 62%

Aubameyang 21 Shots On Target 13 Goals 62%

The top 3 strikers in the league score on average 60% of their shots on target.

My current EPL seasons (2032/33):

Gatter 73 Shots On Target 30 Goals 41%

Lebrun 86 Shots On Target 26 Goals 30%

Tau 65 Shots On Target 18 Goals 28%

The top 3 strikers in the league score on average 33% of their shots on target.

 

So I'd agree it definitely seems that the strikers on FM are far less likely to score than their real world cousins.

Interestingly the numbers of shots on target generated are far greater in real life.

FM 32/33 = Top 3 strikers average 2.765 shots on target per game.

Real World = Top 3 strikers average 1.164 shots on target per game.

 

This is from another thread posted by another member. Very good solid information that highlights the problem I have been adament about

I mean thats the whole problem when you are "BIG" team you can easily outgrow those issues because you create tons of chances so you will eventually score but when you play stronger teams or relly on counter attacking football for less but more clean chances the RNG can destroy you.

Just lower chance creation buff up CCS and the game is perfect. Most chances are created to dumb defending strikers dribbling past them or long balls htrough defense 

 

Since I am new season I dont have much data but here is some of it

Harry Kane 17 England matches Shots 140  on target (29%) goals 10 .  

Sterling averaged 3 shots on target for England scored 10 gaols in 100 shots half on target (very accurated i know )

Edited January 8, 2020 by Toshevbgg

[Gee_Simpson]

I have to say, the most obvious negatives are one on ones, they are ridiculous, way too many misses. Also, balls over the top, but with the one on ones you don't actually concede as many as you should because strikers can't finish.

Edited January 8, 2020 by Gee_Simpson

[Toshevbgg]

To destroy conservative AI myth by my opponent

Stoke 0:1 Liverpool 9/6 (shots totals/on target) 15/9 with 3CCS

City 1:0 Chelsea 15/8 (3ccs) 15/2 (2ccs)

Watford 1:1 Southampton 20/9 3CCS 13/6 2ccs

Bolton 2:1 20/16 against 18/6

Brighton 1:0 Man City 9/3 0 CCS against 26/16 5 CCS !!!!!

I will put some statistic from current champions United in their 0:0 and some 1:0 games

United 0:0 Chelsea 14/8 (4CCS) against 9/6 2 CCS

United 2:1Watford 35/11 (3ccs) against 6:3

Swansea 1:0 United 6/2 against 15/6

Man United 0:1 West Ham 20/9 4 CCS against 4/1

Man United 1:0 Stoke 22/8 4 CCS against 7/2

 

Some Barca Examples

Barcelona 1:1 Valencia 20/10 5 CCS against 9/4 2 CCS

Barcelona 1:0 Arsenal (arsenal knocked them from CL 1/4 final ) 28/8 4 ccs against 4/4 2 ccs

Betis - Barcelona 0:2 8/2 2CCS against 35/9 6CCS 

 

Last but not least lets take a look at Zebre/Juventus last seasoon they had 10 1:1 draws lets examine some of them

Juve - Parma 1:1 16/8 4ccs 5/1 

Juve - cagliari 1:1 16/6 4 ccs against 5:3

Spal 1:1 Juve 9/4 against 14/4 (4 CCS)

Juve 1;1 Milan 9/2 3ccs against 16/9 3 ccs

Genoa 1:1 9/2 2 ccs against 13/6 3 ccs

Juve 2:2 Hoffenhaim (knocked out euro league ) 22/10 4 ccs against 5-2 ( 1ccs) First game 2:0 for hoffrnhaim 18/4 with 2 ccs against 16/5 with 2 ccs

 

I mean everyody can examine the AI. You will see they have amazing number of shots. MOst games finish with 30 shots from both sides this is TOO MUCH. In past games if you get 15 shots against a team that meant you destroy them

I think before FM20 maybe once or twice i went over 30 shots per game and those were against amateur . Now I hit 25+ non stop...  

Please dont be blind about the problem. Way too much chance creations and far less goals for them.  
dont you you are tactic guru that u got ur team to do 20 shots. Every team does it.. Sometimes I have 70 possesion and the computer makes 10 shots in the space of 3 minutes . Lob balls/rebounds multiple GK saves...

P.S Two teams to combine 40 shots on target is extremely rare occurance. Such game will be celebrated as something extradionaire . In real Life Barcelona Average 12 shots per game with 3/4 on target

Look how City lost above against Brighton thats 30 shots with 16 on targets 5 ccs and they could not score a goal. In 2 premier league games they have shot 50 times against opponents with 26 SHOTS ON TARGET...

Edited January 8, 2020 by Toshevbgg

[nikolaMo]

Enough is enough! After giving this years version numerous chances and forcing myself to play it, I'm saddened to say that you lost another customer. Having to wait for a decent game till March, for a game that came out in November is just plain stupid. Next year for the love of God please don't emphasize new features in the game because we already have a good amount, but please work on the ME as much as you can because for 2020 this match and graphics engine is laughable. And not making the same mistake of pre-ordering the game in October that's for sure! 

[JordanMilly]

39 minutes ago, nikolaMo said:

Enough is enough! After giving this years version numerous chances and forcing myself to play it, I'm saddened to say that you lost another customer. Having to wait for a decent game till March, for a game that came out in November is just plain stupid. Next year for the love of God please don't emphasize new features in the game because we already have a good amount, but please work on the ME as much as you can because for 2020 this match and graphics engine is laughable. And not making the same mistake of pre-ordering the game in October that's for sure! 

No one from SI has said that anyone will have to wait until March for an ME patch. It's just blind speculation with no evidence made by individuals who aren't in a position to know when SI will release an ME patch.

They've just come back from the Christmas/New Year holidays, and they're almost certainly working on the next patch right now.

[bleventozturk]

2 hours ago, Toshevbgg said:

I mean everyody can examine the AI. You will see they have amazing number of shots. MOst games finish with 30 shots from both sides this is TOO MUCH. In past games if you get 15 shots against a team that meant you destroy them

I think before FM20 maybe once or twice i went over 30 shots per game and those were against amateur . Now I hit 25+ non stop...  

Please dont be blind about the problem. Way too much chance creations and far less goals for them.  
dont you you are tactic guru that u got ur team to do 20 shots. Every team does it.. Sometimes I have 70 possesion and the computer makes 10 shots in the space of 3 minutes . Lob balls/rebounds multiple GK saves...

P.S Two teams to combine 40 shots on target is extremely rare occurance. Such game will be celebrated as something extradionaire . In real Life Barcelona Average 12 shots per game with 3/4 on target

Look how City lost above against Brighton thats 30 shots with 16 on targets 5 ccs and they could not score a goal. In 2 premier league games they have shot 50 times against opponents with 26 SHOTS ON TARGET...

You are absolutely right in this one, and I don't think anybody is denying that the total number of shots is crazy in FM 20. But long balls over the top are only 1 reason that contributes to it, and there are others to it. For example, in my games what really escalades the number of shots is the poor clearances by the defenders. There are cases when a team takes 3-4 shots within 30 seconds (which happens several times in a single match, so do the math) because the defense keeps heading the ball back to the attacking players' feet, failing to clear it properly. The only thing some people (including me) don't agree with here is the argument that the excessive and unrealistic long balls  over the top happens no matter what you do. Any yes, it should not happen those many times in any setup, so it needs to be fixed, hopefully together with the other stuff that causes too many shots. 

The number of shots have always been too high in FM, but it got worse in FM 20.

Edit: I also want to reiterate that my team's CCC conversion rate (after 1 whole season now) is much higher than real life (finished the year with above 70%), and it is not because I have super strikers. I don't know how this is all coded of course, only SI does, but in my experience the setups that exploit a weakness in the ME and produce a lot of CCC's typically also come with low conversion ratios. Is that so because the ME somehow artificially nerfes the conversion rates to prevent unrealistically high scores, we don't know, and I don't expect SI to reveal the specifics on this. But I know that I would not prefer if those unrealistically created CCC's get converted with realistic ratios and we end up with cricket scores. Having said that, of course I also hope that SI will find a way to stop that, and then recalibrate the conversions to still produce reasonable results. 

P.S.: With my high conversion rate, I did have several matches where I scored 3 goals with only 10-12 shots of which 5-6 were on target. 

Edited January 8, 2020 by bleventozturk

[bleventozturk]

1 hour ago, JordanMillward_1 said:

No one from SI has said that anyone will have to wait until March for an ME patch. It's just blind speculation with no evidence made by individuals who aren't in a position to know when SI will release an ME patch.

They've just come back from the Christmas/New Year holidays, and they're almost certainly working on the next patch right now.

Yes, and we know that they need time to fix things. Historically they release the last patch in March, and also historically we don't get a 4th patch. We already had two, so I would rather wait on that (most likely) last patch as long as they need, before they move on to FM 21  

[FrazT]

2 minutes ago, bleventozturk said:

Yes, and we know that they need time to fix things. Historically they release the last patch in March, and also historically we don't get a 4th patch. We already had two, so I would rather wait on that (most likely) last patch as long as they need, before they move on to FM 21  

As we always say:  Only the SI staff will know the plans for future updates and for a number of reasons, these are not usually announced till the update is ready.  Consequently any discussion about dates is pure speculation based on having no relevant information, so really is not worth it.

[Maldini's Heir]

6 hours ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

Absolutely no-one said that. What was explained to you was that just because you set up to attack down the left doesn't mean your team won't attack down the other side. 

I was clearly exaggerating (quadruple bluff???)

Like I said, I'm a man of simple needs. When I tell my team to attack down the left I would be bowled over if they actually did!

[Maldini's Heir]

6 hours ago, bleventozturk said:

I was going to say something similar, but I did not want to bother somebody who is already frustrated

Like the moderator said above, to me it really sounds like that you just can't enjoy this game with all the randomness it has. Maybe it is just not your game mate. Just to put things in perspective, I would not be able to play this game if it was functioning up to your likings, based on everything that you have been writing, and I am sure there are others like me there. 

In one of your posts you said something like 'it feels more like it is up to the players, and not up to my tactics'. I personally couldn't play/enjoy the game any other way, FWIW. The result of each game is random, and it should be. The soundness of your tactics and the quality of the players (and how players fit in to that tactic) affects the probability of success. Over the course of the year, the luck factor should even out. I just can't understand how somebody can win 5 games, then loose the 6th one, then reload and win, and complain. No offense.

Oh no the re-starts only happen after a build up of results. I can take a defeat or draw or whatever. It's just a run of games which seemed solely designed to wind me up (complete with all of those fabulous misses).

On the "control thing", I don't think it's too much to ask my players to vaguely follow what I'm telling them. I keep my instructions to the minimum. But just once it would be nice for my players to e.g. work the ball into the box v chipping it over the top for my striker to inevitably miss.

I would also say I've struggled more with FM20 than other FMs. I also can't play FIFA or PES anymore.....and I need a football game.....

[Maldini's Heir]

6 hours ago, bleventozturk said:

Fwiw, we also see people complaining here time and again that sometimes the game just decides that they should lose, and no matter how many times they reload and try different tactics, they still lose, therefore concluding that a loss was predetermined at that point. I don't recall seeing this complaint for FM20 yet, but it happened so many times in previous versions. Either way there will be people complaining, and I don't blame them - it is a game after all and one player's expectation can be different than the other's.

Edit: wait a sec, Cristo69 above actually just complained about the so called 'scheduled loss', while also agreeing with Maldini's Heir's complaint, which are essentially contradicting each other. Go figure.

This is never a complaint of mine. I remember years ago I couldn't beat Juve in one of the FMs and I kept losing every time I re-started. I remember (to practice) re-starting a game about 20 times before I eventually won.

That was a thrill because it told me I was doing something wrong. Even that eventual win was probably more of a fluke so I re-started again just to confirm.

I hate the fact that one re-start with the exact same team, tactics and team talk is all it takes. It shows that it's not me, it's just bad luck or some other random event. For me that's much harder to accept.

[Maldini's Heir]

6 hours ago, IrrelevantLion said:

It doesn't play any highlights of your attacks because your attacks obviously didn't produce anything significant. If you watch the whole game you will probably see your attacking play and maybe where it is going wrong

 

Thanks. I might check this out. 

[FrazT]

Guys and Gals- as has been asked before, this thread is for users to give their feedback on the game and not for in-depth tactical discussion.  New users' comments are in danger of being hidden behind all this chat. so please, by all means discuss this, but not in this thread.

[Tiger666]

Am I right in thinking removing thousands of scout reports will speed the game up? If so, there should not be a 50 player limit on the ability to do so. I should be able to go to scouting > scouted players ctrl A and remove all scout reports.

[Novem9]

37 минут назад, Tiger666 сказал:

Am I right in thinking removing thousands of scout reports will speed the game up? If so, there should not be a 50 player limit on the ability to do so. I should be able to go to scouting > scouted players ctrl A and remove all scout reports.

But wait, scout reports are static information which is nothing in compare with day processing?

Btw when I simulate game for 2030+ year (checked newgens) I noticed the same count of leagues/players work much slowly in compare of first season for me  

[Tiger666]

Just now, Novem9 said:

But wait, scout reports are static information which is nothing in compare with day processing?

Btw when I simulate game for 2030+ year (checked newgens) I noticed the same count of leagues/players work much slowly in compare of first season for me  

Maybe speed isn't the right way of describing it. Surely it increases the size of a save game, meaning it takes longer to save?

[FrazT]

Having lots of scout reports kept has been acknowledged as a cause of some game slow down, particularly if you have selected to have them updated

[Novem9]

2 минуты назад, FrazT сказал:

Having lots of scout reports kept has been acknowledged as a cause of some game slow down, particularly if you have selected to have them updated

Is it possible to autoclean report after 365 days left for example? Or manual only?

[FrazT]

1 minute ago, Novem9 said:

Is it possible to autoclean report after 365 days left for example? Or manual only?

I think that it is only manual- I personally check the shortlist at the start of every new season and clean out the players that are obviously not still on my radar.  It can be time consuming, but I always find one or two who I had forgotten about and it does keep the shortlist relevant

[Tiger666]

3 minutes ago, FrazT said:

I think that it is only manual- I personally check the shortlist at the start of every new season and clean out the players that are obviously not still on my radar.  It can be time consuming, but I always find one or two who I had forgotten about and it does keep the shortlist relevant

Yeah so surely it makes sense to allow us to do this for more than 50 players at a time. You used to be able to.

Edited January 8, 2020 by Tiger666

[FrazT]

Just now, Tiger666 said:

Yeah so surely it makes sense to allow us to do this for more than 50 players at a time.

Probably, but from memory the 50 player limit was imposed a couple of versions ago to attempt to limit the unrealistic ability to scout hundreds of players at the one time and maybe this is the spin off.  Suggest a different clearing limit in the Features Request thread

[Kingstontom88]

10 hours ago, Tiger666 said:

Yes

 

Ah great, thanks for raising

[FlorianAlbert9]

Some consideration. 

I resume my game and after a relegation (but a final in National Cup) i left the team even if they offer me new contract (unexpectedly) and more surprisingly a mid table team approach me wanted win the league. 

After 11 game we are first and my striker score 10 in 11. 

That's the first time in FM20 i'm at a good team (for the nation, Hungary) so i can see how issue are in ME despite my team. 

.1vs1 are too much: i don't think that the goals scored from these situation are too low, but seeeing too 1vs1 ruined immersion. (Defenders turning too slow)

Said that there is a problem with strikers' numbers that are too low. 

As i said if you look at top goalscorer records across the world you will find out that FM is miles behind real life stats.

I think that there are 2 main reason (and strangely 1vs1 conversion It Is not one of that).

1) strikers (but all player con general) very rarely follow a teammates' run, and so we see very very rarely a tap-in goals (i think the only tap-in goals that i see were from a shot denied)

2) MENTALITY. 

yes. This Is my big issue. That affect all the ME.

I think there is an huge misunderstanding in mentality. 

Let's take the example of using positive/attacking mentality. 

That's causing CD play often long ball. 

It doesn't matter if you set shortest passing, CD with low risk, PPM simple short passing and 2 DM to give CD always a passing option. Even with a playmaker DM, CD will at max pass at him, that he re-pass to CD, that will try long pass. (So i will be happier if, with not passing option, was the playmaker and not the cd to try the long pass, at max)

That's not attacking. That's quite the contrary, the old-fashion italian catenaccio's offensive phase. 

(When those passes work (too often) we get to the 1) above )

Play risky Is something should not linked to passing range, but to the quality/difficulty of pass in the final third. 

Simple, MENTALITY SHOULD NOT AFFECT PLAYERS OVERWRITE PASSING  LENGHT. 

But the amount of vertical pass in the setting passing range, amount of forward movement, more roaming etc...

And mentality should be more linked also to player duty in that way: a player with defensive duty should not be affect by attacking mentality (or affect very little).

I think that changing that could:

A) restore the possession in favour of attacking mentality top team

B) build up more goals (for great quality team) without changing 1vs1 conversion.

C) using more the AMC that now is seem always have little chance to make an assist.

 

(I think that maybe another elemets could be also play from the back that linked to mentality bring CD to build up with long passes, but i'm trying right now)

Edited January 8, 2020 by FlorianAlbert9

[Mitja]

I see no threads about too many shots, poor shots on target ratio, conservative AI etc in ME section of bugs forum guys. Hopefully the testing team is already awere of these but you are not doing yourself a favour here since most of threads are being logged over there.

[Mitja]

14 minutes ago, FlorianAlbert9 said:

1) strikers (but all player con general) very rarely follow a teammates' run, and so we see very very rarely a tap-in goals (i think the only tap-in goals that i see were from a shot denied)

2) MENTALITY. 

These two things are so easily spotted, why don't you upload a few pkms to the bugs forum? You won't achieve nothing here unfortunatly.

[Mitja]

50 minutes ago, FlorianAlbert9 said:

MENTALITY. 

yes. This Is my big issue. That affect all the ME.

I think there is an huge misunderstanding in mentality. 

Let's take the example of using positive/attacking mentality. 

That's causing CD play often long ball. 

It doesn't matter if you set shortest passing, CD with low risk, PPM simple short passing and 2 DM to give CD always a passing option. Even with a playmaker DM, CD will at max pass at him, that he re-pass to CD, that will try long pass. (So i will be happier if, with not passing option, was the playmaker and not the cd to try the long pass, at max)

That's not attacking. That's quite the contrary, the old-fashion italian catenaccio's offensive phase. 

This has always been a huge issue in some MEs more in some less but it is probably major part why some specific AI managed teams like City traditionally underachieve in FM. Mentality needs major rewamp imho. 

[Delvi]

Mentality should be erased IMHO.

[Miravlix]

VAR is predictable.

 

I can ALWAYS tell what result VAR gives, so I'm basically waiting for a result I already know, without any "wait for result excitement".

 

If VAR is called in  the box = pen 100% of the time.

If VAR is called on the edge = Free Kick.

 

Offside is a problem too, because the INTERFACE itself is not the same for a goal and an offside, so I already know it's an offside and have to waste my time waiting for the animation. (The GOAL banner doesn't show on offsides.)

 

Skip the predictable non-game stuff on anything that isn't full game play, there is no point in us watching the ref run to the var stand when we already know the result. 

 

If you make VAR unpredictable, I would recommend that on non-full you skip to the part where the ref run from the var stand to give the result, that is more than enough "delay" to leave the VAR sitatuion exiting, any longer and it's annoying.

 

If you don't make VAR unpredictable, you need to skip VAR entirely in non-full mode and go directly from the VAR call to the result.

[luka_zg]

There is something very weird with AI logic considering transfers. I'll give you my example. So, 3rd season, I just took over FC Basel. I have a striker Arthur Cabral who scored 14 and 16 league goals in the first 2 seasons and his value is 9.75 mil.

There comes transfer offers from RB Leipzieg, BVB and Atletico Madrid and I am refusing them and the player is not interested in leaving, so final offers come in with around 45mil euros worth with bonuses from all 3 clubs. I refuse them all and I am thinking..I'll keep the guy for a season and maybe he will be worth even more if he has a good season. In January I refuse two more offers of 40 mil, and he has scored at the time around 25 goals. 

So I finish the season with a title ((record wins, points), Cabral scored 43 in 46 in all competitions. He scored 32 league goals(swiss all time record in a season), he had 12 MOM awards(swiss record). We went to the Euro CUp2 final. 

And now, no one is interested in him. I've had one offer from Wolfsburg of 12 mil! And to make matters even more illogical, his value is still the same as it was before he had a season of his life, winning second place in the best europe scorers for the season.

And he started the 3rd season with 5 goals in 7 games. 

Any logic behind this please?

[FrazT]

19 minutes ago, luka_ said:

There is something very weird with AI logic considering transfers. I'll give you my example. So, 3rd season, I just took over FC Basel. I have a striker Arthur Cabral who scored 14 and 16 league goals in the first 2 seasons and his value is 9.75 mil.

There comes transfer offers from RB Leipzieg, BVB and Atletico Madrid and I am refusing them and the player is not interested in leaving, so final offers come in with around 45mil euros worth with bonuses from all 3 clubs. I refuse them all and I am thinking..I'll keep the guy for a season and maybe he will be worth even more if he has a good season. In January I refuse two more offers of 40 mil, and he has scored at the time around 25 goals. 

So I finish the season with a title ((record wins, points), Cabral scored 43 in 46 in all competitions. He scored 32 league goals(swiss all time record in a season), he had 12 MOM awards(swiss record). We went to the Euro CUp2 final. 

And now, no one is interested in him. I've had one offer from Wolfsburg of 12 mil! And to make matters even more illogical, his value is still the same as it was before he had a season of his life, winning second place in the best europe scorers for the season.

And he started the 3rd season with 5 goals in 7 games. 

Any logic behind this please?

The teams that were interested in him have filled their needs and are no longer looking?

[luka_zg]

So no club in europe wants a guy who scored 43 goals in 46 apps and is valued 9mil euros? Right...

[Novem9]

 

[Pasonen]

9 minutes ago, Novem9 said:

 

:/ anyone else got other than route One style? I got the same and play shorter passing.

Edited January 8, 2020 by Pasonen

[Novem9]

I see a big problem in teammates no search opportunity to run forward. No hold positions in opposite half

Just check how teammates just stay and watch/wait for pass. No real moving without a ball. 

 

[Novem9]

1 минуту назад, Pasonen сказал:

:/ anyone else got other than route One style? I got the same and play shorter passing.

I had Tiki-taka and vertical counter for a short time, but in the end it always back for Route One

[ferrarinseb]

7 minutes ago, Novem9 said:

I see a big problem in teammates no search opportunity to run forward. No hold positions in opposite half

Just check how teammates just stay and watch/wait for pass. No real moving without a ball. 

 

 

 If you don't make the runs, You can't split the Defense When Weigl had the ball before he made a long ball to 9, The #7 should be on the shoulder of 3 or atleast running towards 3  and I don't know who is on the left side but he should be doing the same to 2. And one of 6 and 28 should be near the AI DM whilst other at between the DM and CM line. 

Edited January 8, 2020 by ferrarinseb

[andu1]

Yes, the game is harder , but it's harder because of the wrong reasons in my opinion. It's not that the AI has become so much better at squad building or in it's tactical prowess, but because the ME it's in a worse shape than ever before. I am still left befuddled by this ME and not because it's good , but because it has the potential to be good and it's frustratingly flawed in so many aspects. Sorry , i don't want to criticise the team at SI because i know how dedicated they are, but it's frustrating to know that they we are so close to a briliant ME but yet, still too far. 

[Pasonen]

8 minutes ago, Novem9 said:

I had Tiki-taka and vertical counter for a short time, but in the end it always back for Route One

If AI lets Route One information affect its playing against you its a big advantage for you. :/

Edited January 8, 2020 by Pasonen

[Novem9]

2 минуты назад, Pasonen сказал:

If AI lets Route One information affect its playing against i its a big advantage for you. :/

I didnt ask this and I dont need this (advantage)

Edited January 8, 2020 by Novem9

[Mitja]

5 minutes ago, Novem9 said:

I see a big problem in teammates no search opportunity to run forward. No hold positions in opposite half

Just check how teammates just stay and watch/wait for pass. No real moving without a ball. 

 

 

For me muuuch bigger issue here is defending. Look at white CMs how confused they mark opponents. Or white DCs both of them should be on Dortmund striker if there's no other player making forward runs, no surprise how many 1on1's happen. 

[Novem9]

1 минуту назад, Mitja сказал:

For me muuuch bigger issue here is defending. Look at white CMs how confused they mark opponents. Or white DCs both of them should be on Dortmund striker if there's no other player making forward runs, no surprise how many 1on1's happen. 

Agree. I remember one moment shared in December where AI manager has gegenpress style and his team just stay and watch how I use 2-3 passing in own half before long passing for 1 on 1 and goal scored. 

[Bry]

11 minutes ago, Pasonen said:

:/ anyone else got other than route One style? I got the same and play shorter passing.

9 minutes ago, Novem9 said:

I had Tiki-taka and vertical counter for a short time, but in the end it always back for Route One

Same here. I use a narrow diamond with both TI's and PI's all set to short passing. It's as far away from 'Route One' as you can get. 

If this is only a cosmetic error, then I can live with it, but I do worry if it carries any other implications. I see a lot of nice short stuff from my team, but I also still see a lot of long balls from my CB's.

This begs the question, is this kind of thing in the ME defining what the game interprets as us playing 'Route One', and are they both connected to a deeper rooted problem?

Just thinking aloud. Well, typing. Loudly.

 

[luka_zg]

You have 100 goal highlights, I'd say around 70 will be ball over the top for a 1 on 1. 25 will be set pieces or crosses and 5 will be nice chance created by passing the ball between multiple players.

[pheelf]

I don't think it would be a good idea to throw away mentalities completely as they act as a means to simplify the game which helps the AI to make decisions quicker. If it had to assess the combination of all the different TIs within the game it would slow it down dramatically. Why that would be the case is for the following reason.

I don't know whether many of you have ever played computer chess before but let me just make the comparison. If you play on an easier difficulty what that does is make the AI which plays against you think less (consider less moves when deciding what to do). As you increase the difficulty the AI thinks more (takes more time to process more moves before deciding what to do). Why that is comparable to FM is that currently the mentality comes preloaded with all the instructions so the AI doesn't need to think more than choosing which mentality it wants and maybe add some TIs. Take away that layer of simplification then the amount of alternative choices the AI can make sky rockets. That would unfortunately necessitate having to assess every combination of TI possible every time it was going to make a tactical change which would hamper the performance quite significantly as it would have to process all of that information.

Now some among you who advocate removing mentalities might be happy to play a game which takes much longer to process as you feel that it would make the AI stronger and thus make the game more realistic. I can appreciate your point of view but I don't share it. From my perspective, this is a game and as such needs to be fun to play. If it takes forever for the game to process that would quickly sap the enjoyment out of the game for me as I prefer to play long term saves where I play all the matches.

I do however think that mentalities should be split much like the TIs were into the 3 phases of play. That way you would avoid this nonsensical scenario where you select a lower mentality and the in possession instructions dictate a slower, methodical passing game. I agree that is not how a team which seeks to sit deep and defend would attempt to play when they have the ball. 

[HUNT3R]

The discussion around Mentality, how it works and/or the removal of it, isn't really feedback on FM20, so should be discussed in a different thread or suggested as a feature request, ideally with exact reasons why and how it can work going forward. It's a massive part of the ME.

[Mitja]

13 minutes ago, Novem9 said:

Agree. I remember one moment shared in December where AI manager has gegenpress style and his team just stay and watch how I use 2-3 passing in own half before long passing for 1 on 1 and goal scored. 

The more I watch that clip less confidence I have they will be able to improve the ME in FM20. There's so much wrong with these 20 seconds, I mean it would be much better if defending MCs didn't move at all in this sequence.   

[FlorianAlbert9]

55 minuti fa, Pasonen ha scritto:

:/ anyone else got other than route One style? I got the same and play shorter passing.

I have vertical tiki-taka. (At now, After 15 matches with this tactic)

That is the preset from i started ti create my own tactics. 

Edited January 8, 2020 by FlorianAlbert9

[Mitja]

18 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

The discussion around Mentality, how it works and/or the removal of it, isn't really feedback on FM20, so should be discussed in a different thread or suggested as a feature request, ideally with exact reasons why and how it can work going forward. It's a massive part of the ME.

Yeah you are right. But please let me answer the above post it will be my last one on that topic.

27 minutes ago, pheelf said:

I don't know whether many of you have ever played computer chess before but let me just make the comparison. If you play on an easier difficulty what that does is make the AI which plays against you think less (consider less moves when deciding what to do). As you increase the difficulty the AI thinks more (takes more time to process more moves before deciding what to do). Why that is comparable to FM is that currently the mentality comes preloaded with all the instructions so the AI doesn't need to think more than choosing which mentality it wants and maybe add some TIs. Take away that layer of simplification then the amount of alternative choices the AI can make sky rockets. That would unfortunately necessitate having to assess every combination of TI possible every time it was going to make a tactical change which would hamper the performance quite significantly as it would have to process all of that information.

 

I don't think you can really compare it that way. AI uses more complex calculations that don't rely simply on mentality and preloaded instructions but on many other factors including manager's preffered style (hidden attributes) which are already much different than those preloaded ones. Mentality ''only'' determines attacking intent, how risky AI will play in given situation. You are making assumptions with bolded part I'm pretty sure about that. Since mentality certainly couldn't be ditched altogether, what you wrote hasn't got much significance - the alternative would be to limit it to one or three basic ones. There are many reasons why this would be a good idea.

[Neil Brock]

14 hours ago, Cristo69 said:

that's why unreal. the results of this fm 20 do not make results with players you have. when it's scheduled for you to lose. you lose. why is this garbage fm20

This is absolutely not the case and has been spread as misinformation on these forums for as long as I can remember. Each game is decided based on all the various factors going into the match, such as weather conditions, player morale, the referee, player form - absolutely everything. Of course there's random elements on the match day which can change this further (such as injuries, reactions to conceded, tactical changes etc), but the game absolutely does not 'schedule you to lose'. 

[Sharkn20]

41 minutes ago, Mitja said:

Yeah you are right. But please let me answer the above post it will be my last one on that topic.

I don't think you can really compare it that way. AI uses more complex calculations that don't rely simply on mentality and preloaded instructions but on many other factors including manager's preffered style (hidden attributes) which are already much different than those preloaded ones. Mentality ''only'' determines attacking intent, how risky AI will play in given situation. You are making assumptions with bolded part I'm pretty sure about that. Since mentality certainly couldn't be ditched altogether, what you wrote hasn't got much significance - the alternative would be to limit it to one or three basic ones. There are many reasons why this would be a good idea.

This is incorrect, mentality affects both attacking and defensive phases of the game.