Is The Game Too Easy?

[Travis Bickle]

I've been on both sides of this debate. 

I don't think the game is too hard, but I think tactical implementation has gotten worse since FM19 and the ME hasn't been good enough.

On top of this, I think squad morale has way too much of an impact.

[Federico]

38 minuti fa, Mars_Blackmon ha scritto:

I see no reason why FM touch wouldn’t be more catered to the arcade audience and the full version would be more realistic. I mean isn’t this what they did for Fm Mobile? That game is even easier than the full game. It takes no effort in FM Mobile.

Because people keep asking for features to be added to Touch straight from the full version.

I grew up the impression that people just play Touch to avoid press conferences and every interactions. The ME is the same, you don't have tactic familiarity, which is a discussed point within the community anyway and other cosmetic things.

What I would miss is detailed trainings. Even if I grew up the impression (again!) nobody knows how they work clearly (how much and in which quantity and quality a specific training affects a player? how long does it last its benefit? Any answer is welcomed).

[Travis Bickle]

2 minutes ago, Federico said:

Because people keep asking for features to be added to Touch straight from the full version.

I grew up the impression that people just play Touch to avoid press conferences and every interactions. The ME is the same, you don't have tactic familiarity, which is a discussed point within the community anyway and other cosmetic things.

What I would miss is detailed trainings. Even if I grew up the impression (again!) nobody knows how they work clearly (how much and in which quantity and quality a specific training affects a player? how long does it last its benefit? Any answer is welcomed).

Training has been overlooked in FM for ages. I don't think it is half as important as it should be. 

I'm in what could now be considered a more long-term save, and really, seeing regens come through my club all that seems to matter is that I have good coaches and blend them into the first team keeping morale high. They develop world class. the only way I think I've really helped a player's development is if say the regen was a great winger but was missing crossing and I get him to train crossing a lot more. 

[Overmars]

1 hour ago, Travis Bickle said:

On top of this, I think squad morale has way too much of an impact.

Totally agree with this. The wild swings in form that players and teams experience in FM feels very arcade-ish. In FM20, if you lose a couple of matches then you know the next one is going to be full of bad luck and set piece chances against you that will make you feel like you have the worst squad in the league. Similarly, if you win a few matches in a row then you can play with both eyes closed and still win most matches.

Form should matter but not in a way that overwhelms most of the other factors.

[Gee_Simpson]

I agree that morale plays too big a part in results, it needs toned down a bit imo.

[Travis Bickle]

1 hour ago, Overmars said:

Totally agree with this. The wild swings in form that players and teams experience in FM feels very arcade-ish. In FM20, if you lose a couple of matches then you know the next one is going to be full of bad luck and set piece chances against you that will make you feel like you have the worst squad in the league. Similarly, if you win a few matches in a row then you can play with both eyes closed and still win most matches.

Form should matter but not in a way that overwhelms most of the other factors.

 

59 minutes ago, Gee_Simpson said:

I agree that morale plays too big a part in results, it needs toned down a bit imo.

On two occasions I had no rep, unemployed start saves. Took over a team at the bottom of the league in Serie C/Segunda B, got us clear of promotion by not losing in like 10 games and winning half of them. Suddenly, my players decided "They can't get past my lack of experience" and morale and managerial support plummets to abysmal. All of a sudden we can't get a point from anywhere. In both cases I still stayed up but it's just an example of how random morale is and how it really messes up the gaming experience.

 

[EazyEee]

This is why some sort of difficulty level solves the issue, or two tiers of game where Touch is for casuals and full version for experienced players.

[grade]

14 hours ago, EazyEee said:

This is why some sort of difficulty level solves the issue, or two tiers of game where Touch is for casuals and full version for experienced players.

But the idea of the classic/Touch, was not to be easier version. It was and still is, not to be an easier version. It is meant to be a more straightforward, with less to "manage" (your backroom staff is just key roles and nothing else), with a simpler versions of scouting and training modules. It's primary focus is on speed of processing a season, which is far rapid, no matter how much tinker and delegate to you AI staff with FM to run as fast as Touch. It is focus on tactics and building your squad. Touch (back then was called classic and the name shouldn't have changed in my opinion), is for those FMers, that no longer have the free time that they use to, due to family or work commitments, they can enjoy the game and go on longer seasons, instead of the 3 to 4 seasons, they were able to play. It was purely voice criticisms here in the forums and on the net, that forced SI to create a more speedy version.

It is a shame that Touch have acquired that view that is an easier version for noobs. And one of the highly criticisms i have against SI, they never bother to change that view, for whatever reasons.

PS: I also thing the Mobile is also not an easier version either. it is light version for obsessed FMers to play on the go. You can take easier version on every version of FM you can think off. It is simple not true.

 

 

Edited September 30, 2020 by grade

[grade]

18 hours ago, Mars_Blackmon said:

I see no reason why FM touch wouldn’t be more catered to the arcade audience and the full version would be more realistic. I mean isn’t this what they did for Fm Mobile? That game is even easier than the full game. It takes no effort in FM Mobile.

Read the reply I wrote above.

Edited September 30, 2020 by grade

[Mars_Blackmon]

32 minutes ago, grade said:

Read the reply I wrote above.

Arguing semantics tbh.

 

if you have to make a separate game to make things more streamlined you are essentially creating a easier less detailed version of the current game.

 

my problem with FM is that it has all of these littler details in the game but they really do not matter if you don’t manage them...Outside of maybe morale.

 

“Less manage” in a management game is easier.

[Keyzer Soze]

47 minutes ago, grade said:

But the idea of the classic/Touch, was not to be easier version. It was and still is, not to be an easier version. It is meant to be a more straightforward, with less to "manage" (your backroom staff is just key roles and nothing else), with a simpler versions of scouting and training modules. It's primary focus is on speed of processing a season, which is far rapid, no matter how much tinker and delegate to you AI staff with FM to run as fast as Touch. It is focus on tactics and building your squad. Touch (back then was called classic and the name shouldn't have changed in my opinion), is for those FMers, that no longer have the free time that they use to, due to family or work commitments, they can enjoy the game and go on longer seasons, instead of the 3 to 4 seasons, they were able to play. It was purely voice criticisms here in the forums and on the net, that forced SI to create a more speedy version.

It is a shame that Touch have acquired that view that is an easier version for noobs. And one of the highly criticisms i have against SI, they never bother to change that view, for whatever reasons.

PS: I also thing the Mobile is also not an easier version either. it is light version for obsessed FMers to play on the go. You can take easier version on every version of FM you can think off. It is simple not true.

 

 

If any, Touch version is harder.

If you want to know if your tactic is good, they try it on touch, without morale issues (good or bad) or team talk bursts.

[grade]

16 hours ago, Keyzer Soze said:

If any, Touch version is harder.

If you want to know if your tactic is good, they try it on touch, without morale issues (good or bad) or team talk bursts.

I agree with you.

One thing, which I can't help it... :P The only thing missing on Touch is an Editor.

[Keyzer Soze]

4 minutes ago, grade said:

I agree with you.

One thing, which I can't help it... :P The only thing missing on Touch is an Editor.

It will out with the FMT39 edition! 

[grade]

4 hours ago, Keyzer Soze said:

It will out with the FMT39 edition! 

Nah it will be on FM50, for sure.

[Mars_Blackmon]

21 hours ago, Keyzer Soze said:

If any, Touch version is harder.

If you want to know if your tactic is good, they try it on touch, without morale issues (good or bad) or team talk bursts.

And that’s why people say the full version is arcady.

The team falls apart if you screw up morale and they get unrealistic boosts if you hit every team talk.

 

if you’ve been playing the game for years then you already know what to choose hence why it becomes easy.

It’s to the point where I leave it to the assistant.

 

this is an example of having details and realistic factors in the game that is not really acting realistic...

[Keyzer Soze]

26 minutes ago, Mars_Blackmon said:

And that’s why people say the full version is arcady.

The team falls apart if you screw up morale and they get unrealistic boosts if you hit every team talk.

 

if you’ve been playing the game for years then you already know what to choose hence why it becomes easy.

It’s to the point where I leave it to the assistant.

 

this is an example of having details and realistic factors in the game that is not really acting realistic...

The "game is(not) realist" is always a funny discussion, because usually the users that think it is completely unrealistic that a team talk can destroy the team morale a leave it to a 10 games run without winning, are the same that think it's realist to take a team from Cyprus second division and make them champions league winners in 5 or 6 years.

[Mars_Blackmon]

25 minutes ago, Keyzer Soze said:

The "game is(not) realist" is always a funny discussion, because usually the users that think it is completely unrealistic that a team talk can destroy the team morale a leave it to a 10 games run without winning, are the same that think it's realist to take a team from Cyprus second division and make them champions league winners in 5 or 6 years.

Those people are annoying but team talk and morale (good or bad) is a little over powering and TBH I don’t blame SI for it as that is really the only management factor in the game. All the other factors like injuries, fatigue, playing time, press, etc is something you can ignore and still win. The entire aspect of managing needs to be more balanced. Some aspects are nerfed while others are overpowered.

[laurentius82]

I don't know what the people who say the game is too easy are whining about. They should try playing the game blind-folded and using only their feet to control the mouse and keyboard.  It's a proper challenge, I tell you!

[Tubey84]

I've been away from FM for a few years, thought I'd struggle coming back in to it but... no, honestly it really is too easy.

There's like a billion wonderkids after a year or two, top clubs stockpile them and give them away on loan for literally years. I have five of them in my current squad and another five who used to be wonderkids!

I've had one player on loan since he was 17 and he's due a testimonial soon! I've just taken a 20 year old left winger on loan from Liverpool for two years who's worth £61M. With no competition to sign him. On next to nothing wages.

Full back formations are broken - I found a 4-5-1 and never looked back, almost pressing continue without much else. Gegenpress, inside forwards, overlap full backs, have centre-mids prowling the edge of the box, win, yawn.

The determination stat has always been my "go to" but with this version of FM it seems outright broken too.  You go on a good run, and all you do every teamtalk is say "the media are praising you, go out and show them why!" and they're all delighted. You boost them with the only two shouts that make sense - get creative and demand more - and win over and over again. As someone said above, they're "boost buttons".

Press conferences have obvious correct answers all the time. The AI for signings are often daft - Juven- sorry, Zebre this season being an example, spending a combined £82M on two slightly above average 32-year-olds.

OK, I'll buy a bit that maybe I'm just good at the game. Maybe. But I used to be 1000x more invested in FM years ago and I was never this "good" at it. None of this is bragging; I actually feel I'm not doing enough to earn the results I'm getting. So I'm writing career updates here - 

 - and nobody seems interested because... well... I think anyone could do what I'm doing really with this version of FM. It doesn't feel special. I want it to feel special, or to fall flat on my backside and fail.

If this has been done intentionally, look, I get it. Accessibility is a good thing and having settings that allow players of all skill levels to play and enjoy it is something I'd support. But in that case I'd prefer an Easy Mode to be explicitly separate to, say, a Simulation Mode.

[Mars_Blackmon]

3 hours ago, Tubey84 said:

I've been away from FM for a few years, thought I'd struggle coming back in to it but... no, honestly it really is too easy.

There's like a billion wonderkids after a year or two, top clubs stockpile them and give them away on loan for literally years. I have five of them in my current squad and another five who used to be wonderkids!

I've had one player on loan since he was 17 and he's due a testimonial soon! I've just taken a 20 year old left winger on loan from Liverpool for two years who's worth £61M. With no competition to sign him. On next to nothing wages.

Full back formations are broken - I found a 4-5-1 and never looked back, almost pressing continue without much else. Gegenpress, inside forwards, overlap full backs, have centre-mids prowling the edge of the box, win, yawn.

The determination stat has always been my "go to" but with this version of FM it seems outright broken too.  You go on a good run, and all you do every teamtalk is say "the media are praising you, go out and show them why!" and they're all delighted. You boost them with the only two shouts that make sense - get creative and demand more - and win over and over again. As someone said above, they're "boost buttons".

Press conferences have obvious correct answers all the time. The AI for signings are often daft - Juven- sorry, Zebre this season being an example, spending a combined £82M on two slightly above average 32-year-olds.

OK, I'll buy a bit that maybe I'm just good at the game. Maybe. But I used to be 1000x more invested in FM years ago and I was never this "good" at it. None of this is bragging; I actually feel I'm not doing enough to earn the results I'm getting. So I'm writing career updates here - 

 - and nobody seems interested because... well... I think anyone could do what I'm doing really with this version of FM. It doesn't feel special. I want it to feel special, or to fall flat on my backside and fail.

If this has been done intentionally, look, I get it. Accessibility is a good thing and having settings that allow players of all skill levels to play and enjoy it is something I'd support. But in that case I'd prefer an Easy Mode to be explicitly separate to, say, a Simulation Mode.

I’m not surprise no one is checking that out. I rarely tuned into FM YouTube channels for this version because they all have the same arch.

[Mars_Blackmon]

Higher line of defense and urgent passing = a win 9/10 times...

[Icy]

The more I play the more I think that morale might be the issue here.

I just started a journeyman save unemployed, Sunday player with no badges. First season I was offered a job at Hereford that was 2nd to last, managed to avoid demotion but it was hard, as with no reputation, they players didn't like me and their moral and cohesion was so low.

Then in the summer I signed a few unemployed young players (fired from top clubs), setup a basic balanced 4-4-2 wing play, avoided high press/high line as that is OP, no loans as it's OP, started praising/criticizing their training (players love you very soon and their morale raises), won the first games, morale was up, team talks were always "show the press they are right praising you" and "I have faith on you", every 15 minutes shout "Demand more" or "Get creative" to get them focused, won more games, morale even better, everybody loved me, started to give post game team talks about don't be overconfident for next game to avoid over complacency, kept winning, same pre and post game talks, top morale, more wins.

Ended bored and thinking about starting a new save.

I have realized that keeping the morale high you are invencible except if your players get over confident, easily avoided with the right team talks.

I'm considering switching to FM Touch until FM21 is out as has been said as maybe it's more difficult or more about coaching without the morale module and team talks. I also wonder if removing some roster and competition rules like homegrown etc as FM Touch does it will make the AI teams better at squad management.

Edited October 7, 2020 by Icy

[djpdavey]

On 02/08/2020 at 22:16, DasMagicMullet said:

I played regularly from CM93 through to FM2009, then had a decade off to raise kids, work long hours and grow old (I never enjoyed the 3D match engine either to be honest).

I came back to FM20 when it was included with the Xbox Game Pass and also managed to pick up a copy for the Switch. I've now completed 2 seasons on each platform and I'm amazed how easy the game seems.

On the Switch, I spent a season with Altrincham, won the league at a canter, losing only once. At the end of the season I moved to Forest Green and won the league at a canter, losing only once.

On the PC, I'm at the end of my 2nd season and I'm yet to lose a league game. First season I played as Dukla Prague, before moving to Sparta Prague. Both times I was 3rd favourite for the title, but managed to go a combined 66 games unbeaten. No restarts, no save skips.

During the 15-16 years of my heavy playing I was never a master tactician, which is why it's surprised me how easy 20 feels. I've played the same formation with all 4 teams, 4231, but I dunno, seems odd.

You've played 2 seasons per platform. Try taking Altrincham to the prem. The first couple of seasons are easy because any team can go up with decent tactics until they hit the higher tiers. Any one who thinks the game is easy from tier 6 or lower to winning premier League and CL please message me on how you do it so easily. I struggle when I get to the prem because I'd love to know what you do different.

[Mars_Blackmon]

1 hour ago, djpdavey said:

You've played 2 seasons per platform. Try taking Altrincham to the prem. The first couple of seasons are easy because any team can go up with decent tactics until they hit the higher tiers. Any one who thinks the game is easy from tier 6 or lower to winning premier League and CL please message me on how you do it so easily. I struggle when I get to the prem because I'd love to know what you do different.

Shouldn’t be so easy to get to the prem in the first place tbh. 
 

as mention there are exploits in the match engine or specific tactics that take advantage of the AI. The fact that you can create friendly tournaments with clubs 6 tiers above your club to make easy money are just some of the things that makes the game easy. Yet I don’t do any of those things and still find success. Maybe at a slower rate but I always end up as a champion.

[majesticeternity]

6 hours ago, Icy said:

The more I play the more I think that morale might be the issue here...

I have realized that keeping the morale high you are invencible except if your players get over confident, easily avoided with the right team talks.

 

I agree.

Morale is at least one of the major factors, because often the AI have poor team building, poor team talks, poor everything.. In FM19, I'd constantly go up against teams with morale and happiness in the dumps, while my team was sky high happy. Once I started giving AI clubs all 20 morale, and never touching my team's morale, things got alot harder. It's the main reason/inspiration behind the mods I made, in an attempt to reduce the morale & poor AI team building/squad management issues.

With you playing in Vanarama North, there especially you'll see it be very easy, as the managers/trainers/assistants/scouts will have TERRIBLE abilities to do anything. 

 

[Federico]

But morale, team spirit, cohesion, whatever you want to call it, is it not of big impact in real life too?

[Mars_Blackmon]

1 minute ago, Federico said:

But morale, team spirit, cohesion, whatever you want to call it, is it not of big impact in real life too?

It is. But it needs to be tweaked.

 

Too Arcady IMO. 
 

those things are suppose to make a great team better or slightly underachieving and a bad team slightly overachieving or even worse. Not turn a bad team into league champs and vice versa. Once you have the morale and team talk feature figured out, morale becomes a power up boost.

[zyfon5]

13 hours ago, Icy said:

The more I play the more I think that morale might be the issue here.

I just started a journeyman save unemployed, Sunday player with no badges. First season I was offered a job at Hereford that was 2nd to last, managed to avoid demotion but it was hard, as with no reputation, they players didn't like me and their moral and cohesion was so low.

Then in the summer I signed a few unemployed young players (fired from top clubs), setup a basic balanced 4-4-2 wing play, avoided high press/high line as that is OP, no loans as it's OP, started praising/criticizing their training (players love you very soon and their morale raises), won the first games, morale was up, team talks were always "show the press they are right praising you" and "I have faith on you", every 15 minutes shout "Demand more" or "Get creative" to get them focused, won more games, morale even better, everybody loved me, started to give post game team talks about don't be overconfident for next game to avoid over complacency, kept winning, same pre and post game talks, top morale, more wins.

Ended bored and thinking about starting a new save.

I have realized that keeping the morale high you are invencible except if your players get over confident, easily avoided with the right team talks.

I'm considering switching to FM Touch until FM21 is out as has been said as maybe it's more difficult or more about coaching without the morale module and team talks. I also wonder if removing some roster and competition rules like homegrown etc as FM Touch does it will make the AI teams better at squad management.

Coming from playing FM18, I do notice that morale seems to have a bigger effect in FM20.

[GuitarMan]

5 hours ago, Mars_Blackmon said:

It is. But it needs to be tweaked.

 

Too Arcady IMO. 
 

those things are suppose to make a great team better or slightly underachieving and a bad team slightly overachieving or even worse. Not turn a bad team into league champs and vice versa. Once you have the morale and team talk feature figured out, morale becomes a power up boost.

Would you not say Man Utd are facing a morale issue in real life at the minute? On paper they have the players, Pogba, Fernandes and all, but they don’t have the results.

Everton - yes they had an unbelievable transfer window, but the morale boost from their signings has seen a step up in their squad players IMO.

i think personally morale and dressing room dynamics are a massive part of modern football. 

[Icy]

hace 4 horas, GuitarMan dijo:

Would you not say Man Utd are facing a morale issue in real life at the minute? On paper they have the players, Pogba, Fernandes and all, but they don’t have the results.

Everton - yes they had an unbelievable transfer window, but the morale boost from their signings has seen a step up in their squad players IMO.

i think personally morale and dressing room dynamics are a massive part of modern football. 

Agree but maybe (in my own appreciation, that might be wrong) they need to:

- Tweak the extremes, so too happy don't become superstars and sad ones do not become garbage. It's apreciable in Strikers goal scoring. I know that strikers also go through that in real life, that is why they need to play and score, but again I think morale affects too much their attributes (my guess is that it's a modifier as match shape or fitness).

- Tweak team talks/training praising/player talks/etc so the effect is not as big as it is right now. For me training praising is as OP that I forbid myself to do it more than once per month, if you praise them two weeks, skip one, praise two weeks again, seems the players add you to their favored personal so fast, and with the week off you avoid the phrase about them not wanting to talk again about it.

- Tweak the "speed" of gaining or losing moral.

That way high moral = more wins = higher moral or the opposite won't be as easy to maintain or hard to get out. Basically to make the players more emotional stable and not as bipolar that I think it's the main reason of why some users find the game too easy or too hard.

Another solution is also to "teach" the AI to do what users do regarding it so at least we're not in advantage.

Edited October 8, 2020 by Icy

[Mars_Blackmon]

5 hours ago, GuitarMan said:

Would you not say Man Utd are facing a morale issue in real life at the minute? On paper they have the players, Pogba, Fernandes and all, but they don’t have the results.

Everton - yes they had an unbelievable transfer window, but the morale boost from their signings has seen a step up in their squad players IMO.

i think personally morale and dressing room dynamics are a massive part of modern football. 

I’m not saying it’s not but when team talks becomes a formula instead of feel and emotion then it becomes gamey and a problem. There needs to be a bit of randomness to it and the positive/negative impact do t need to be this extreme.
 

I also wouldn't be surprise if managing morale became easier in the last few years considering the amount of complaints about having unhappy players. It’s probably why it’s so OP when you now what to say and do.

[Impacto]

I agree about the morale part. It's way too easy once you undestand it. The main reason why recent FMs have been so easy is that we learned how to use morale properly and that allows you to go on massive winning streaks. That being said, managing morale poorly and you'll be sacked before you know it. This makes the game very hard for newbies because they have no clue how important morale is in this game. 

Morale is really important in real life, but it's very hard to build good morale and very easy to lose it. Ask any professional coach - they all say the same thing. In the game it should be similar. I think losing morale is in a good place in the game, but gaining it it's too easy and needs tweaking. 

 

[EazyEee]

Yh agree on the player morale issue, once the players are happy its really easy to maintain and go on really long unbeaten runs, outperforming teams superior to your own.

Second major issue is how easy it is to put together an amazing squad of players due to the 48 month financing options and poor AI. Ended up signing Tonali for Crutone for about £8mil with absolutely no competition. 

[FlorianAlbert9]

Simply I don't understand when speaking about difficulty some say "if you wanna more difficulty using a very poor team and not Liverpool!" . 
Well. 

No. 

it should be exactly the contrary.

Managing top team should be the highest level. with the highest pressure and skill requested. 

If in real life you could easily win with Liverpool/Barce/Real/etc.., these teams would simply not pay the current coaches millions, they would take someone cheap from the lower leagues.

[Mars_Blackmon]

1 hour ago, FlorianAlbert9 said:

Simply I don't understand when speaking about difficulty some say "if you wanna more difficulty using a very poor team and not Liverpool!" . 
Well. 

No. 

it should be exactly the contrary.

Managing top team should be the highest level. with the highest pressure and skill requested. 

If in real life you could easily win with Liverpool/Barce/Real/etc.., these teams would simply not pay the current coaches millions, they would take someone cheap from the lower leagues.

Yea I’ve never understood that logic at all.

[yolixeya]

It's pretty simple. The most important thing in FM is to have world class players. When you use Liverpool you already have that so you can win CL and everything in your first season. When you take a club in a lower league you first need to build that squad uo in oreder to be competitive at highest level. It doesn't make a game any harder or easier but it prolongues your save. Well... it could make it difficult for someone who always played with top team and who doesn't know how to build a team from the scratch. 

[Mars_Blackmon]

2 hours ago, yolixeya said:

It's pretty simple. The most important thing in FM is to have world class players. When you use Liverpool you already have that so you can win CL and everything in your first season. When you take a club in a lower league you first need to build that squad uo in oreder to be competitive at highest level. It doesn't make a game any harder or easier but it prolongues your save. Well... it could make it difficult for someone who always played with top team and who doesn't know how to build a team from the scratch. 

It’s actually easier to get world class players relative for its level down in the lower leagues. The AI isn’t smart enough to find such players itself and compete in the market...The difficulty comes from taking that team from poor to rich to compete with the top level teams. Which is really easy within its self especially if you’re using friendly cups to get money.

 

none of the other nuances of the game becomes difficult or easier between levels. Start with no badges to make it difficult? Yea start with none and just quickly get the highest badge eventually. It’s really all the same. One is just taking the long road to success.

 

FM became like fast food.

[yolixeya]

6 hours ago, Mars_Blackmon said:

It’s actually easier to get world class players relative for its level down in the lower leagues. The AI isn’t smart enough to find such players itself and compete in the market...The difficulty comes from taking that team from poor to rich to compete with the top level teams. Which is really easy within its self especially if you’re using friendly cups to get money.

 

none of the other nuances of the game becomes difficult or easier between levels. Start with no badges to make it difficult? Yea start with none and just quickly get the highest badge eventually. It’s really all the same. One is just taking the long road to success.

 

FM became like fast food.

They can hardly be called "world class" if they are in the lower leagues. 

But yeah, it gets easy when you get the hang of it but there is still a lot of players struggling with it.

For those who feel it's too easy only way to increase difficulty is to play one of those challenges where you restrict yourself like youth challenge for example.

[Sunstrikuuu]

On 08/10/2020 at 01:51, GuitarMan said:

Would you not say Man Utd are facing a morale issue in real life at the minute? On paper they have the players, Pogba, Fernandes and all, but they don’t have the results.

Everton - yes they had an unbelievable transfer window, but the morale boost from their signings has seen a step up in their squad players IMO.

i think personally morale and dressing room dynamics are a massive part of modern football. 

Honestly?  No, I wouldn't say United are dealing with player morale problems.  The Athletic did a bit of a deep dive on their recent loss to Spurs.  The problems, in the view of the authors and the nameless quoted players, are that their defenders just aren't really very good.  To the extent that there are morale problems, it's to do with players being upset with other players, which isn't a big part of the FM morale system.  They think Maguire isn't concentrating - legal issues that aren't part of FM - and that Pogba is neither playing well nor focused on winning.  That's something I might like to see in future FM editions - players coming to you to ask that you drop, play, discipline, warn or praise other players, in the same way that you get players now supporting each other over contractual or disciplinary matters. 

[Mars_Blackmon]

4 hours ago, Sunstrikuuu said:

Honestly?  No, I wouldn't say United are dealing with player morale problems.  The Athletic did a bit of a deep dive on their recent loss to Spurs.  The problems, in the view of the authors and the nameless quoted players, are that their defenders just aren't really very good.  To the extent that there are morale problems, it's to do with players being upset with other players, which isn't a big part of the FM morale system.  They think Maguire isn't concentrating - legal issues that aren't part of FM - and that Pogba is neither playing well nor focused on winning.  That's something I might like to see in future FM editions - players coming to you to ask that you drop, play, discipline, warn or praise other players, in the same way that you get players now supporting each other over contractual or disciplinary matters. 

That would be a great addition to the morale system. 

 

Additionally, our manager characteristics should have a bigger impact.

 

Not loyal to players? That should greatly influenced players joining your team or asking wage...

Not doing a good job managing finances? Should greatly influence jobs offered and asking for increased wages, transfer budget.

 

Higher tactical consistency? Faster tactic familiarly.

Media handling and team discipline should influence how players and media react to you.

 

Etc...

[Mars_Blackmon]

19 hours ago, yolixeya said:

They can hardly be called "world class" if they are in the lower leagues. 

But yeah, it gets easy when you get the hang of it but there is still a lot of players struggling with it.

For those who feel it's too easy only way to increase difficulty is to play one of those challenges where you restrict yourself like youth challenge for example.

Lol yeah but it isn't hard to get players that are at least 2 levels above your current league skill level. It gets easier the lower down you get.

[majesticeternity]

It's not an issue with the way morale works in the game, per se.

It's that the AI teams are terrible at gaining and maintaining good morale. 

If you did everything right with morale, but come up against a run of 10 matches, where 7 of those opponents had high morale, happy squads, and good tactical managers, you would have more losses/draws, and that in turn would make perfect morale more difficult to maintain. Therefore, the morale system can't be "gamed", but instead needs actively, regularly used correctly in order to keep up.

But when you do everything right with morale, and in those 10 matches, only 1 has high morale, 6 have poor, and the others average, and you apply your tactical prowess, then you're much more likely to win most of the games, which keeps increasing morale, and the game becomes easy.

[Brighton123]

It's far too easy. I often play a season, a season and half then get bored and restart again with my enjoyment coming from the pre season of building the squad, doing the training and sorting out the youth squads etc.

As mentioned by someone else, you can loan players you shouldn't be able to, or at least with no competition and on no wage commitment or fee.

I can sign a ton of players I shouldn't be able to because A) Players in real life who wouldn't consider coming to the club are willing to talk (I get for the game you need to have a bit of this but it's so unrealistic), and B) Because every club for 99% of transfers are willing to accept installments over 48 months and a sell on percentage. Where I should only be able to sign 1/2 players I can actually sign 4/5, and very good ones that improve my team. 

It's also very easy to offer out your players and get a good transfer fee for them. If I offer a player to clubs they should be playing hardball as I clearly want rid. 

So whilst I'm making money and hoovering up all the wonderkids and good players for hardly any upfront fee, the AI does barely anything except pay for average players for over the top fees.

Make transfers more realistic and improve the AI squad building and management. 

Edited October 15, 2020 by Brighton123

[Brighton123]

On 14/10/2020 at 08:36, Brighton123 said:

It's far too easy. I often play a season, a season and half then get bored and restart again with my enjoyment coming from the pre season of building the squad, doing the training and sorting out the youth squads etc.

As mentioned by someone else, you can loan players you shouldn't be able to, or at least with no competition and on no wage commitment or fee.

I can sign a ton of players I shouldn't be able to because A) Players in real life who wouldn't consider coming to the club are willing to talk (I get for the game you need to have a bit of this but it's so unrealistic), and B) Because every club for 99% of transfers are willing to accept installments over 48 months and a sell on percentage. Where I should only be able to sign 1/2 players I can actually sign 4/5, and very good ones that improve my team. 

It's also very easy to offer out your players and get a good transfer fee for them. If I offer a play to clubs they should be playing hardball as I clearly want rid. 

So whilst I'm making money and hoovering up all the wonderkids and good players for hardly any upfront fee, the AI does barely anything except pay for average players for over the top fees.

Make transfers more realistic and improve the AI squad building and management. 

To add, it shouldn't be that difficult to prevent stockpiling of players either? 17 year old right wing prospect see's you already have another 18 and 21 year old prospect in the same position. Doesn't fancy his chances so says no thanks.  

Young top class but not world class CB see's you already have 2 world class CB's and 2 more top class ones. He doesn't think he'll play enough football at your club, says no thanks but will reconsider if one is sold first. 

28 year old squad player who is being sold dirt cheap or on a free (that you could sell for profit in 6 months) doesn't want to join as they haven't played first team football in 3 years and will only consider first team football. It would be awesome if you offered a player like this a 'first team player' contract (knowing full well they won't be), but the player turned round after looking at your squad and said I don't think I will be and rejected you. 

A thing that can be exploited is the continual delaying of a transfer until it collapses.  The player and agent are then happy to re-enter talks as if nothing has happened. So if you're fighting for a players signature against other clubs you can max out wages, signing on fee and all the bonuses until they accept your deal there and then.... delay the transfer for a couple of weeks until collapse, maybe repeat the cycle if you need fight off other clubs again...… after 1, 2 or 3 cycles of this, all the interest in the player is gone and you have a free run at signing them. The cherry on top is the agent has forgotten the mega deal you offered 2 weeks ago that doubled his wages, signing on fee and 50% sell on fee, etc., and is happy to accept a normal offer (which can actually be lower than if you tried to sign them legitimately as there's now no competition driving up the contract!). The player should not be willing to re-enter talks after delaying the transfer a couple of times or at the very least should want the deal you offered 2 weeks ago. 

Obviously I could choose not to exploit this stuff, but I know it exists, so I do sometimes.

I don't see any reason why this sort of stuff can't be blocked to make the game a bit harder for those who have worked this stuff out. 

[enigmatic]

1 hour ago, Brighton123 said:

To add, it shouldn't be that difficult to prevent stockpiling of players either? 17 year old right wing prospect see's you already have another 18 and 21 year old prospect in the same position. Doesn't fancy his chances so says no thanks.  

Young top class but not world class CB see's you already have 2 world class CB's and 2 more top class ones. He doesn't think he'll play enough football at your club, says no thanks but will reconsider if one is sold first. 

28 year old squad player who is being sold dirt cheap or on a free (that you could sell for profit in 6 months) doesn't want to join as they haven't played first team football in 3 years and will only consider first team football. It would be awesome if you offered a player like this a 'first team player' contract (knowing full well they won't be), but the player turned round after looking at your squad and said I don't think I will be and rejected you. 

Very easy for an attempted implementation to screw up perfectly reasonable transfers though. The extra defender you want to switch to a back three refusing to sign because you already have two first choice defenders. The AMR you want to rejig your forward line refusing to sign because two star forwards you want to shift positions currently play AMR. The 17 year old you want as a long term replacement for a player you'll definitely be forced to sell within a season or two refusing to sign because you haven't sold him yet. The keeper you want to sign because your current one makes too many mistakes not believing he'll be first choice because the other one started every game last season. The player that thinks Ozil is an integral part of your squad because he has a high reputation.

None of this is stuff players will thank SI for implementing. and FM is bad enough at getting players available on freebies contracts elsewhere without them refusing to sign for clubs that have better players. 

It's not like sides don't stockpile IRL. If you don't want a loan farm because it's too easy to make a profit on, don't sign one. If you don't want to lie to players about their squad status, don't do it.

[TWG85]

From a commercial & accessibility standpoint it makes sense for the game to be easy to get a grasp of. Can't fault them there. But I would like the introduction of a toggled difficulty level.  

[LetsNotScoreGoals]

The game is only easy because there isn't much depth to the game at its core. Fiddle with tactics, buy wonderkids, play. The replayability and challenge comes from your own barriers. Do you want to play only youths? Only players in your intake? Try bringing Gibraltar to the world stage? Etc.

[Mars_Blackmon]

26 minutes ago, enigmatic said:

Very easy for an attempted implementation to screw up perfectly reasonable transfers though. The extra defender you want to switch to a back three refusing to sign because you already have two first choice defenders. The AMR you want to rejig your forward line refusing to sign because two star forwards you want to shift positions currently play AMR. The 17 year old you want as a long term replacement for a player you'll definitely be forced to sell within a season or two refusing to sign because you haven't sold him yet. The keeper you want to sign because your current one makes too many mistakes not believing he'll be first choice because the other one started every game last season. The player that thinks Ozil is an integral part of your squad because he has a high reputation.

None of this is stuff players will thank SI for implementing. and FM is bad enough at getting players available on freebies contracts elsewhere without them refusing to sign for clubs that have better players. 

It's not like sides don't stockpile IRL. If you don't want a loan farm because it's too easy to make a profit on, don't sign one. If you don't want to lie to players about their squad status, don't do it.

That's an extreme example. The game already. Not to mention when you sign players you can tell them what their role would be. In any case, the player that is already on your team should be the person becoming upset but who cares since he's the GK you want to replace anyway.

 

Playing two defenders then sign a 3rd might upset one if the defenders but that should be remedied once you start actually playing a back 3 giving all 3 guys the correct playing time.

[Mars_Blackmon]

23 minutes ago, LetsNotScoreGoals said:

The game is only easy because there isn't much depth to the game at its core. Fiddle with tactics, buy wonderkids, play. The replayability and challenge comes from your own barriers. Do you want to play only youths? Only players in your intake? Try bringing Gibraltar to the world stage? Etc.

There is depth. It's just that they rarely mean anything. You can completely ignore aspects of the game game and still win. 

This is probably why some folks prefer FM TOUCH. It removes all of the fluff and just cut to the chase. i on the other hand will embrace the fluff and detail management if they actually mattered.

 

The game doesn't necessarily need to be ”hard” on a gaming definition but at least provide a realistic challenge with better AI, Match engine, improved features and mechanics.

[enigmatic]

1 hour ago, Mars_Blackmon said:

That's an extreme example. The game already. Not to mention when you sign players you can tell them what their role would be. In any case, the player that is already on your team should be the person becoming upset but who cares since he's the GK you want to replace anyway.

 

Playing two defenders then sign a 3rd might upset one if the defenders but that should be remedied once you start actually playing a back 3 giving all 3 guys the correct playing time.

But it's not remedied if the game is changed so that players you're trying to sign pay more attention to positions you already have in your team than your squad status offer, as the poster I was replying to suggested

Edited October 15, 2020 by enigmatic