Is The Game Too Easy?

[teknotel]

On 21/08/2020 at 11:52, henryzz said:

This thread seems to be full of people overachieving partly due to the opposition underestimating them. It is often far easier to do well in the first season or 2 after being promoted because you are being underestimated continuously. Attacking tactics will suffer at times due to quality difference but will also often find a lot of space.

This is 100% the issue for the most part and tbh is my only really major criticism with the core gameplay loop in the recent versions of the game.

I stated earlier I wont he UCL in 9 seasons with Barnet and it is probably 50% down to this and 50% down to my tactics and management, This weighting feels really off. It is a major factor in why you have it pretty easy taking a team up from the bottom because you are always a low rep club on your way up and this really helps you grind out results as every team is essentially a bigger team than you. Therefore if you have good players and a good tactic your virtually invincible.

Also once you become a big club, as I did after winning the UCL you instantly overnight notice the difference. In my tenth season we really struggled against the worst teams in the league. We could go and spank Man City and Liverpool 4 or 5 nil, then fail to score against bottom of the league stoke and have them score their second shot of the entire game in the 85th minute to lose 1-0. This was a consistent theme, we still finished third in the end but the games against bottom 4 or 5 clubs was virtually a write off and I honestly tried everything. Building the opposition club up in the press, playing youth or reserve players hungry for a shot and even going so far as to play different tactics where we sit back and try to let them have possession and counter. Nothing worked for me in this season. I watch the games in comprehensive highlights and you could literally see the difference in your players in these games. They are falling over the ball, missing penalties, passing it straight into the opposition players and of course missing open goals.

For me this is the one major criticism I have in the game. I like the mechanic itself, but it just seems far too heavily weighted for me and needs tuning up a ever so slightly so its not every game etc.

I am now in my 11th season and actually we are top of the league and have done much better, I made a huge name signing and kind of worked out who doesn't show up for these game and rotated them out and have started demanding we win against the **** teams and our results have been much better.

But yes this is 100% a huge part in why the game can appear easy until you make it to the very top.

[EazyEee]

This sounds like the experience I'm having too, I often start the game with small sides and it always feels like once I put together a decent squad and have good tactics in place 90% of opposition are easy - until I hit a top tier UCL side and even then I pull off a remarkable amount of "upsets" without altering my tactics much at all.

This feeling of the game being easy makes it less enjoyable. 

[Preveza]

On 22/08/2020 at 07:10, Gee_Simpson said:

I definitely have found this to be the case the past few years at least. It seems to be easier to achieve high possession with the 4231 vs the 4123, despite people saying the 4123 is good for possession. 

When playing 4231 with practically any side, you'll win the possession count regardless of how good opposition is. 

[Brother Ben]

People want to win.  If it was too hard they would say it was scripted.  Was ever thus....

[EazyEee]

True, making it too hard would put casual gamers off. The best solution is to have some sort of hard mode.

[Svenc]

6 hours ago, Brother Ben said:

People want to win.  If it was too hard they would say it was scripted.  Was ever thus....

Funnily enough, a good amount of the "scripted" suspicious actually comes from people who win everything or are generally overachieving except the odd game now and then. "Must be scripted so this easy game is being kept interesting"....

Generally agree though. WIth improved AI managers, say, suspicious of unfairness would increase. AI is already capable of doing stuff many cannot, be it on the transfer market and negotiations or be it the old chestnut of winning matches despite having few shots (duh) -- it's already the kind of stuff that draws suspicious as is. "The AI can do all this whilst I cannot, so the game cannot possibly play fair".

Edited August 28, 2020 by Svenc

[Brother Ben]

7 hours ago, Svenc said:

Funnily enough, a good amount of the "scripted" suspicious actually comes from people who win everything or are generally overachieving except the odd game now and then. "Must be scripted so this easy game is being kept interesting"....

Generally agree though. WIth improved AI managers, say, suspicious of unfairness would increase. AI is already capable of doing stuff many cannot, be it on the transfer market and negotiations or be it the old chestnut of winning matches despite having few shots (duh) -- it's already the kind of stuff that draws suspicious as is. "The AI can do all this whilst I cannot, so the game cannot possibly play fair".

I don't think they will ever achieve a balance. 

People want different things from the game.  For some people if they can't fairly easily win things with their favourite team they just won't buy the game.  Others want a challenge and want the game to be harder (I suspect though that most would soon change their minds if it actually happened)

Mind you i'm crap at the game.  As long as I build up a rapport with the players and the journey is enjoyable i'm happy.

One thing I would question though is exactly how many people are that successful?  Reading these forums as a relatively unsuccessful manager such as myself you'd be led to believe that everyone was great at the game but how many post about failure?

[Federico]

Yeah honestly I'm failing miserably since FM2018. I used to achieve, if not overachieve, until FM2017. Then something happened, probably I'm just getting older. So all this people claiming the game as "too easy"... they usually pick a british club covered by money and win the CL in 3 years. I pick an italian club struggling to pay wages and get sacked after 3 games in a row with a team predicted to finish the season 15th. Not so easy for me.

[Brother Ben]

17 minutes ago, Federico said:

Yeah honestly I'm failing miserably since FM2018. I used to achieve, if not overachieve, until FM2017. Then something happened, probably I'm just getting older. So all this people claiming the game as "too easy"... they usually pick a british club covered by money and win the CL in 3 years. I pick an italian club struggling to pay wages and get sacked after 3 games in a row with a team predicted to finish the season 15th. Not so easy for me.

Good to hear, not just me then!

[Impacto]

1 hour ago, Federico said:

Yeah honestly I'm failing miserably since FM2018. I used to achieve, if not overachieve, until FM2017. Then something happened, probably I'm just getting older. So all this people claiming the game as "too easy"... they usually pick a british club covered by money and win the CL in 3 years. I pick an italian club struggling to pay wages and get sacked after 3 games in a row with a team predicted to finish the season 15th. Not so easy for me.

It's quite fun playing in Serie A because you have to get creative in the market. But it's still too easy. I had a save with Roma in FM 18. I struggled in the beginning because my tactic was crap as I was experimenting with new formations. Then I got back to my usual setup and it was a breeze. The problem was and still is on FM - the AI can't stay consistant. For some reason, Juventus with all their awesome players just dropped points left and right and barely managed to get top4 for 3-4 seasons in a row. And Inter, Milan and Napoli were nowhere near top level either. So I was winning the league with ease every season until I got bored. I never won CL but right before I stopped playing I made about 200 Million in player sales so I could have build a CL winning squad at that point. 

I did something similar with Atalanta later on. My tactic that I've been using ever since FM 10 is very simple 4-2-3-1 with attacking mentality and mostly direct football. I favour pacey forwards and it just works without me having to do much. This is the default tactic that I use when I'm not having fun with some of Ozil's tactics here on this forum. 

In LA Liga it's the same thing - Played with Valencia, Real and Barca could barely keep up. Won the league in the second season with barely any transfers. In the first season I struggled, but again adjusted the tactic and got 4th spot at the end. The AI of course made it easy for me as my rival for 4th who had 8 points advantage bottled all 3 last games and I sneaked in 4th place. I hate this too - 9 times out of 10 the AI bottles it and makes it easier for me. 

Then Real Madrid responded with a new coach and 200 M transfers like Pogba and Kane. They still barely got 89 points and I won the league with ease again. I think It's too easy for the human player to go on winning streaks and it's too hard for the AI to do the same. 

In the EPL sure you have money, but the game is harder in the beginning because in FM 18 you had beastly Man Utd winning like crazy. I hated them and I still do, but that's a good thing - there is a challenge there. On FM 20 it's Liverpool and sometimes City. Few seasons in and the poor AI can't do something like this. So the longer the game goes, the easier it gets. 

TBH, there is no point discussing this. People have different oppinions, but at the end of the day the only one that matters are the casuals. They are 80-90% of the paying customers and if the game is too hard they just won't buy it. So it is what it is. All we can do is make challenges for yourselves and find new ways to enjoy the game. 

 

[d d]

Nope, not for me. 

[nextqprmanager]

Agreed - it is [ sadly ] human nature to not advertise your failings - most on Forums etc. will gloat.

As said above, this game is more complex than previous years` but once you have a good Tactic & the rightish players`, then Seasons will become easier BUT if you are on the wrong track, in debt etc. ; it can be hard.

[WelshMourinho]

On 04/08/2020 at 08:17, sporadicsmiles said:

The game is easy if you learn how to exploit the limitations of the AI. Not something I would suggest doing, but you can have great success. For example, there is a tactic posted on here which is clearly taking advantage of the fact the largest single type of goal is far post crosses, which are poorly defended in the game. So it is bound to score a lot of goals, and win. This subject has been discussed to death, so there is no point covering it again. But it is something that will work in FM20 but not in older or future versions of the game. No criticism from me, play the game how you want. 

I did a thread a while back where I absolutely destroyed the AI by simply exploiting the fact they like to pass the ball around in defence but do nothing with it. The AI had most of the possession, but it is in their own half. I had set up to have the ball less, but always in the opposition half. It was wildly successful for me. But it was again an exploit, because it played on some flawed AI behaviour. It would not have been hard to defeat the tactic I was using, the AI just was not programmed to do it. 

Of course playing the game in a manner in which create a logically sound tactic that does not rely on exploits is the most sound way to play. I say that because it is transferable between games. When not pushing the AI limits to mess around, I have used the same basic setup for my teams for about years now (probably 5 or so). It works every year because it is built around actual solid ideas to create chances in football matches. And it does make the game harder when you play this way, because you are not trying to cheese goals from the AI (again, if thats how you want to play fair enough, this is not a veiled insult). So you lose games you should win, you win games you should lose. I find it much more rewarding. And despite having success with this, I do not find the game easy. I have to pay attention to matches, respond to what is happening in games, make changes etc. While there are games I just win, more often than not I have to at least pay some attention.

And I think this is where the disconnect between the people who say the game is hard and those who say it is easy it. If you are using a tactic that predominantly relies on some foible of the AI, you will not have to do this. You just wait for the inevitable chances you will get. You can ignore everything else pretty much and do not really need to make changes. This of course makes the game seem easy. 

To follow on from this (of which I agree with it all btw), I think this years ME in particular has been susceptible to numerous 'exploits' that just so happen to be common in the world of football irl. Previous FM's, especially years ago, you had to do wacky nonsense like field 3 strikers to proper exploit the ME. On this one, even something like a really high press feels like an exploit imo.

In my current save I've won Serie A with a standard press, standard LOE and just generally a less intense approach when it came to hounding the ball back. I won the Prem with a highler LOE with a standard press. 

But only when I went to Barca and utilised a more urgent press, with a higher LOE and a top heavy 4-2-3-1 did I feel like the AI couldn't cope. This set up included a 35 yr old Mbappe with 10 stamina who never looked exhausted or suffered with muscle injuries. Florentino Luis is 34 with 9 stamina and he coped fine in the CM spot, one you imagine would be incredibly taxing in a normal system never mind chasing the ball around like mad men.  I basically spent the season watching a lot of teams suffer under our pressure, when in reality our pressure should've faltered with the personnel I had.  Many composed defenders constantly hoofed the ball back to us. I've also witnessed my own very composed, good ball playing cbs lump the thing away under a slight bit of pressure. The heavy pressing style, for me, needs tuning of sorts on FM21. 

It's the same with the far post headers you and others have mentioned.  I know my team does this, albeit I haven't set up that way. It makes it rather unsatisfying to see 12 heading, 11 jumping reach Ansu Fati scoring goals at the back post with his head, but he's being used as an IF and the way we camp in the oppositions half means my AMR (played as a winger support) and fb (s) are both high up and ready to deliver that ball.

To bring it back to OP's point, I don't think FM20 is too easy per se, I just think the popular concepts that exist in football right now also just happen to be rather exploitable in this ME. High pressing is probably the most entertaining football to watch (I say this as a general comment, I know everyone has their different tastes). So of course many people are going to use a top heavy high pressing formation, and this year it's going to do well.

Edited August 28, 2020 by WelshMourinho

[EazyEee]

18 hours ago, WelshMourinho said:

To bring it back to OP's point, I don't think FM20 is too easy per se, I just think the popular concepts that exist in football right now also just happen to be rather exploitable in this ME. High pressing is probably the most entertaining football to watch (I say this as a general comment, I know everyone has their different tastes). So of course many people are going to use a top heavy high pressing formation, and this year it's going to do well.

I think you hit the nail on the head with this, playing styles of football other than high-press does make the game more challenging. Also, as "Impacto" stated above, the AI rarely maintain the level of consistency which human players do.

Add in the unrealistic monthly instalments when singing a player and it becomes all to easy to amass a half decent squad and gegen-press your way to victory.

[laurentius82]

If you have to go out of your way to try to avoid making a tactic that's too effective (or even avoid certain tactical styles altogether), impose special rules on yourself to make things harder, and generally take pity on the AI in order for the game to provide any challenge, then yes, the game is too easy.  

Don't get me wrong, I love FM and have bought each and every version since '05 and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future, but it's a shame that there are many interesting features of the game (analysis features for example) that you never bother to use because there 's no point, you win everything anyway with a half-decent tactic and some attention to squad building. 

One specific thing I've noticed  this year in comparison to previous versions, is how easy it is to beat even much bigger teams to signings when there are several bids on the table for a player. For some reason the players very often choose the human player's offer even when the big boys like Barca, Man City, PSG etc are also in the contention. This didn't use to be so, in previous FMs it was usually the case that when you saw that Man City for example had made an offer, you knew you had very little chance of signing the player (which made sense because they were a more reputable club and likely offered higher wages). 

[Mars_Blackmon]

Way too easy, it’s time to fix match engine exploits and bring in some sort of adaptive AI who doesn’t only adjust to your team’s reputation.

[Viking]

I've said it before: FM is not easy. It's hard, frustrating, and tedious, and extensive cheating is a necessary part of a successful FM career save.

[penza]

On 10/09/2020 at 12:49, Mars_Blackmon said:

Way too easy, it’s time to fix match engine exploits and bring in some sort of adaptive AI who doesn’t only adjust to your team’s reputation.

What tactic is an exploit?

[Brother Ben]

On 12/09/2020 at 06:02, Viking said:

I've said it before: FM is not easy. It's hard, frustrating, and tedious, and extensive cheating is a necessary part of a successful FM career save.

Is it success if you've "extensively cheated?"  

[sthptngomad76]

On 31/08/2020 at 06:36, laurentius82 said:

If you have to go out of your way to try to avoid making a tactic that's too effective (or even avoid certain tactical styles altogether), impose special rules on yourself to make things harder, and generally take pity on the AI in order for the game to provide any challenge, then yes, the game is too easy.  

Don't get me wrong, I love FM and have bought each and every version since '05 and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future, but it's a shame that there are many interesting features of the game (analysis features for example) that you never bother to use because there 's no point, you win everything anyway with a half-decent tactic and some attention to squad building. 

One specific thing I've noticed  this year in comparison to previous versions, is how easy it is to beat even much bigger teams to signings when there are several bids on the table for a player. For some reason the players very often choose the human player's offer even when the big boys like Barca, Man City, PSG etc are also in the contention. This didn't use to be so, in previous FMs it was usually the case that when you saw that Man City for example had made an offer, you knew you had very little chance of signing the player (which made sense because they were a more reputable club and likely offered higher wages). 

Should I really have to create special rules on myself to have a competitive, challenging, yet engaging game? Or should this be the responsibility of the game developers who I am paying to provide with this?

[TroubleMan]

So for all of you saying it's too easy - I have a challenge for you.

I made a testing league, but after it worked I took it a lot farther to see how far I could go.  So what I ended up with is a 3 tiered national structure.  One league at the top, two in the middle for at the bottom.  With the exception of 6 teams, I made a human manager for each one, applied a top tactic from great tactic creators of FM, and indefinitely holidayed the coach with locked in tactics.  I did this over 150 times, and each one has a different tactic.  So you can take one of the 6 non-tactic teams and challenge yourself to win the league.  See if you can win the top league 5 times in a row.  The teams you can challenge yourself:  one is equal to the tactic teams (200 PA players), one is 165 PA, one is 150 pa, one is 135, one is 120, and one is 100.  I think that it's all but impossible to win with anything other than the equal team.

If anybody's interested, I'll post a thread about it with more detail and instructions, along with a link to download the save.

[Mars_Blackmon]

On 13/09/2020 at 08:37, penza said:

What tactic is an exploit?

Gegenpress.

[grade]

21 hours ago, TroubleMan said:

So for all of you saying it's too easy - I have a challenge for you.

I made a testing league, but after it worked I took it a lot farther to see how far I could go.  So what I ended up with is a 3 tiered national structure.  One league at the top, two in the middle for at the bottom.  With the exception of 6 teams, I made a human manager for each one, applied a top tactic from great tactic creators of FM, and indefinitely holidayed the coach with locked in tactics.  I did this over 150 times, and each one has a different tactic.  So you can take one of the 6 non-tactic teams and challenge yourself to win the league.  See if you can win the top league 5 times in a row.  The teams you can challenge yourself:  one is equal to the tactic teams (200 PA players), one is 165 PA, one is 150 pa, one is 135, one is 120, and one is 100.  I think that it's all but impossible to win with anything other than the equal team.

If anybody's interested, I'll post a thread about it with more detail and instructions, along with a link to download the save.

I for one would be interested in your more detailed findings.

[TroubleMan]

8 hours ago, grade said:

I for one would be interested in your more detailed findings.

Here you go:

 

 

[HotDogManUK]

Regarding the topic title I wouldn't say the game is too easy.

I've had great success, struggles too and I do have varying degrees of success and failure.

I think it's a well balanced game especially if you play the game in a realistic way.

[MagicHat]

On 02/08/2020 at 22:16, DasMagicMullet said:

I played regularly from CM93 through to FM2009, then had a decade off to raise kids, work long hours and grow old (I never enjoyed the 3D match engine either to be honest).

I came back to FM20 when it was included with the Xbox Game Pass and also managed to pick up a copy for the Switch. I've now completed 2 seasons on each platform and I'm amazed how easy the game seems.

On the Switch, I spent a season with Altrincham, won the league at a canter, losing only once. At the end of the season I moved to Forest Green and won the league at a canter, losing only once.

On the PC, I'm at the end of my 2nd season and I'm yet to lose a league game. First season I played as Dukla Prague, before moving to Sparta Prague. Both times I was 3rd favourite for the title, but managed to go a combined 66 games unbeaten. No restarts, no save skips.

During the 15-16 years of my heavy playing I was never a master tactician, which is why it's surprised me how easy 20 feels. I've played the same formation with all 4 teams, 4231, but I dunno, seems odd.

Try and win the premier league or champions league with a non top 6 team... very hard. If you play in the premier league with a non top 6 team it basically ends up with man city, man utd, liverpool, arsenal, chelsea, spurs and your team fighting for the title... very hard.

[kosecki99]

 

The game is too easy. It is not normal for a coach to take a second division team and make it European champion. Solution? .. Set difficulty level. 1) The usual difficulty and 2) Real Level that would be what happens in real life.

[Viking]

On 14/09/2020 at 11:22, Brother Ben said:

Is it success if you've "extensively cheated?"  

The AI seems to think so. I've neer been sacked halfway into the season because of a 90% lose ratio when I cheat.

[Consiglieri]

I certainly think the game is too easy. Yeah maybe its hard for a Beginner, but most of the players of the game is not beginners. I played ever since 1993, and I think fm20 it the easiest version of the game to date. 

Its like the AI are too "poor", its to easy too beat. I can have the poorest team in the league and still win the league, which make the game not fun anymore.
I really think the AI really need to be revamped, and maybe make different difficulty of AI.

You can easily hired the best staff in the league in the first season, with almost any team and budget. 
And don´t getting me started with the AI controlling the tactics, thats just faldt out poor.
 

Edited September 18, 2020 by Consiglieri

[Brother Ben]

8 hours ago, Viking said:

The AI seems to think so. I've neer been sacked halfway into the season because of a 90% lose ratio when I cheat.

I meant does it "feel" like success but I guess you knew that already

[GreenTriangle]

On 14/09/2020 at 13:58, sthptngomad76 said:

Should I really have to create special rules on myself to have a competitive, challenging, yet engaging game? Or should this be the responsibility of the game developers who I am paying to provide with this?

Huh ... I paid to be free to use or not to use certain components of the game. Under no circumstances I would pay to play just as some people think I should play.

[Mars_Blackmon]

If Soulja Boy can get a win on his first try barely doing anything. Then yea the game is easy lol.

[oliveroliveer123]

I've been playing since 2011 and I've actually had the toughest time in the 2020 game. It's also the game I have the most complaints about but that's for another thread

 

I do set personal restrictions on my game though which I didn't do when I was younger. For example, I don't weaken my division rivals, I try and keep transfers semi realistic and I try and bring through my academy players, even if their stats are a bit lower than those of some others that I could bring in

Edited September 24, 2020 by oliveroliveer123
party time

[EazyEee]

If  you have to set personal restrictions then the game is too easy IMO. I've ended up doing the same with transfers fee instalments. After three seasons I'm comfortably in the top 4 in the Serie A with Crotone, outplaying the likes of Juventus and Inter with a squad which is far inferior. (No cheating, downloaded tactics of Set-pieces).

As several people have stated above, FM has been going for decades and therefore has lots of experienced long-term players, would love to see a harder mode added.

[silentwars]

I wouldn't say it's too easy - if you find it easy then manage a smaller team with a smaller budget. The difficulty level is essentially your club of choice. 

[Mars_Blackmon]

32 minutes ago, silentwars said:

I wouldn't say it's too easy - if you find it easy then manage a smaller team with a smaller budget. The difficulty level is essentially your club of choice. 

I find it even easier managing non league teams...

 

It makes sense logically but the statement just isn’t true.

Maybe if you were a small team in a top division but even then you can finished top halve easily.

[silentwars]

9 minutes ago, Mars_Blackmon said:

I find it even easier managing non league teams...

 

It makes sense logically but the statement just isn’t true.

Maybe if you were a small team in a top division but even then you can finished top halve easily.

I haven't managed a non league team for a few years, so I'll take your word for it. Problem for SI is if they make it too hard people will complain as well. 

[FMFutbol]

It is very challenging if you don't play a 4-2-3-1.

[TroubleMan]

If you think the game is too easy, try to win in the Clone Wars save I made:

You're not playing against the AI; you're playing against the greatest tactic creators in FM.

 

[Mars_Blackmon]

3 hours ago, TroubleMan said:

If you think the game is too easy, try to win in the Clone Wars save I made:

You're not playing against the AI; you're playing against the greatest tactic creators in FM.

 

I’m personally not looking to play some sort of challenge mode. I’m not interested in an alternative setup. That’s not what I buy FM for.

[fivetwelvepony]

I'll leave this without further comment -- I won the Supporters Shield with San Jose in 2020. 

[Federico]

The Supporters Shield?

WIth San Joseee???

Naaa you must be kidding us.

[fivetwelvepony]

5 hours ago, Federico said:

The Supporters Shield?

WIth San Joseee???

Naaa you must be kidding us.

You seem like a lovely person.

[Mars_Blackmon]

Also, outside of match engine stuff. Another thing that makes the game easy is the lack of a competitive transfer market.

 

Along with things like fatigue and injuries not being at its full strength. We need an option to use realistic injuries and fatigue. This is a big part of managing a football team...

[Thierry Henrhys]

I wish I could say this game was easy. I’ve won 2 games in the league since the end of February. 
 

people who are asking for it to be harder 

[EazyEee]

On 27/09/2020 at 19:40, Mars_Blackmon said:

Also, outside of match engine stuff. Another thing that makes the game easy is the lack of a competitive transfer market.

 

Along with things like fatigue and injuries not being at its full strength. We need an option to use realistic injuries and fatigue. This is a big part of managing a football team...

A lot can be done out of the match engine to make it more realistic / harder. How transfers and budgets work for example, can spin a 15mil budget into crazy figures using monthly instalments, end up spending massive amounts with small teams, none of this happens in real life.

Also, young players are just too good, it's all too easy to scout the next crop of good players, buy them all and dominate however, its actually very rare for a team of under 23 year olds to dominate a league. 

[Mars_Blackmon]

4 hours ago, EazyEee said:

A lot can be done out of the match engine to make it more realistic / harder. How transfers and budgets work for example, can spin a 15mil budget into crazy figures using monthly instalments, end up spending massive amounts with small teams, none of this happens in real life.

Also, young players are just too good, it's all too easy to scout the next crop of good players, buy them all and dominate however, its actually very rare for a team of under 23 year olds to dominate a league. 

Yea. To give myself somewhat of a challenge. I let my DOF bring in players, never manually scout. Only work from the list. Never search based on attributes. I hide attributes. Play with a database that adjusted injuries. Never make custom tactics...

 

the game is too easy for players who been around FM for awhile.

[Lexis]

While I agree difficulty levels would not really work in something designed as a simulator, there are some things people don't seem to get.

I've also been in this situation where picking any top 4 team or hell even top 6 I can win the league in my first season without too much of a hassle. Now people will say, pick a worse team, use DoF , etc.

Simply picking a top team should not be enough to win the league in 95% of the cases in the first season unless you truly are a master of all the systems in the game. And even so, you could very likely have tough opposition. How many years it took Jurgen to win with Liverpool and make them this unstoppable force? How many coaches do actually win the league in their first season in a top 6 team? Jurgen, considered an exceptional coach, took several years. Pep Guardiola, considered an exceptional coach, didn't win in his first season at city. Furthermore, he never won a UCL after leaving Barcelona. Take into consideration that he went at exceptional teams (Bayern and City) with which he was not able to win UCL. Jose Mourinho at United and Tottenham wasn't able to win the league. I can tell you that anybody DECENT at FM, if he picks a top 4 team, he has very good chances of winning the league. This should NOT be the case, unless you are exceptional. There are very few cases where this happened real life. What's more, real life you get actual opposition, you get to actually get challenged in the race to the title, not win it 20 points ahead.

Handicapping yourself should NOT be the solution to this.

Even if you start at a lower team. By season 4 you are likely smashing the top teams as they fell behind in terms of squad building. What happens then? You handicap yourself again and resign?

[grade]

1 hour ago, Lexis said:

While I agree difficulty levels would not really work in something designed as a simulator, there are some things people don't seem to get.

I've also been in this situation where picking any top 4 team or hell even top 6 I can win the league in my first season without too much of a hassle. Now people will say, pick a worse team, use DoF , etc.

Simply picking a top team should not be enough to win the league in 95% of the cases in the first season unless you truly are a master of all the systems in the game. And even so, you could very likely have tough opposition. How many years it took Jurgen to win with Liverpool and make them this unstoppable force? How many coaches do actually win the league in their first season in a top 6 team? Jurgen, considered an exceptional coach, took several years. Pep Guardiola, considered an exceptional coach, didn't win in his first season at city. Furthermore, he never won a UCL after leaving Barcelona. Take into consideration that he went at exceptional teams (Bayern and City) with which he was not able to win UCL. Jose Mourinho at United and Tottenham wasn't able to win the league. I can tell you that anybody DECENT at FM, if he picks a top 4 team, he has very good chances of winning the league. This should NOT be the case, unless you are exceptional. There are very few cases where this happened real life. What's more, real life you get actual opposition, you get to actually get challenged in the race to the title, not win it 20 points ahead.

Handicapping yourself should NOT be the solution to this.

Even if you start at a lower team. By season 4 you are likely smashing the top teams as they fell behind in terms of squad building. What happens then? You handicap yourself again and resign?

That is where the balance act of this game is, and SI has too manage it.

At one side FM goes full on simulation and making difficult with teams like Real Madrid or Barcelona, some players would say: this game is too damn hard, i give up... I prefer PES. On the other side, you go to more soft simulation and gamey experience, where you can win the league with the club predicted to finish last and the hard core FMer, would say: this game is too damn easy... I prefer play FIFA in Hard Core mode.

So basically SI are really between a rock and hard place. If they push one side they will anger some fans (or they simply stop playing the game and move on), if they push to the other side it will anger another portion of fan base.

[Mars_Blackmon]

1 hour ago, grade said:

That is where the balance act of this game is, and SI has too manage it.

At one side FM goes full on simulation and making difficult with teams like Real Madrid or Barcelona, some players would say: this game is too damn hard, i give up... I prefer PES. On the other side, you go to more soft simulation and gamey experience, where you can win the league with the club predicted to finish last and the hard core FMer, would say: this game is too damn easy... I prefer play FIFA in Hard Core mode.

So basically SI are really between a rock and hard place. If they push one side they will anger some fans (or they simply stop playing the game and move on), if they push to the other side it will anger another portion of fan base.

I see no reason why FM touch wouldn’t be more catered to the arcade audience and the full version would be more realistic. I mean isn’t this what they did for Fm Mobile? That game is even easier than the full game. It takes no effort in FM Mobile.