broken game engine

[roykela]

2 hours ago, Overmars said:

It doesn't seem to matter much how good they are. Rangers doesn't have great ball playing defenders, and their keeper is nothing special. I played a match against Hibs, and they were using the same time wasting approach with a mediocre team. After the first 15 minutes, the Hibs keeper had 24 passes! I was forced to alter my formation to something ridiculous (3 attacking midfielders + 2 forwards) to prevent Hibs from having 70% possession and killing the game before it even started.

The key problem in all of this is that the pressing team does not push up enough, even with extremely urgent pressing, a very high line of engagement, and high work rate players. Once the time wasting team passes back to their keeper, a pressing team should be pushing up to the defenders and forcing the keeper to play it long. In FM20, this does not happen. The keeper can still play to defenders because the pressing team never pushes up high enough to take away the passing lanes. "Prevent shot GK distribution" as an instruction only seems to make the matter worse because two players rush to the keeper, the keeper still gets the pass away, and the defenders now have even more space in which to play keep away.

Interesting. 
If i tell my team to push up (when needed) they do so. My teams have capitalised on that several times by forcing the defenders, keeping the ball and playing at around, to make mistakes.
The 2 players closing down the GK is pretty annoying though and i've seen that happen quite a few times. Not all the time though.
When i use the "Prevent short GK distribution" my players push up and seek out the defenders.
They don't go too high though, as that would expose us even more, but as soon as a defender gets the ball my players are on them. I haven't seen the 2 players on the goalie because of that isolated instruction though.
That happens now and then regardless.

If i use the "Prevent short GK distribution" i don't have to up the LoE nor the Pressing intensity.
My players take their positions automatically. And they have always done so, when they have become familiar with the tactic's pressing intensity.

What i'm doing, simplified, is that i take what i judge to be the best players for the positions, duties and roles inside a formation and let them play it out.
I try to keep that going until they're familiar with my tactics. Along the way i observe the behaviour of the players to see if they're following my instructions or not.
If not i give those particular players individual instructions. I keep doing that all the time until i get them to play the way that i want.
If i still don't get them to play the way that i want i either/both revise my tactics and/or replace the players that can't seem to do the job the way i want them to.
And so far that has worked wonders. The hidden underline is; what part of the tactical game encourages the opposition to do what they do? Can i limit them, or even discourage them from playing that way?
In my experience, yes. Yes, i can.

At the same time, as mentioned, i don't experience those issues, in general, myself.
The high numbers of defensive passes, set pieces, 1v1s etc.
That makes me very curious about, why the "huge" differences?

A thought came to me when you mentioned that; in our team (just a bunch of friends playing footie once a week) the quality of the players vary very, very much.
One guy is practically blind without his glasses, afraid of the ball, afraid of engaging in a duel, no technique, can't run, no understanding on the pitch etc.
Footie-wise he's terrible. But for some reason he can complete a long range pass more than most.
He's nothing special, to say the least, but if i have a bad angle for a long range pass i never hesitate giving the ball to him. He will most likely hit the target.

Reason i'm giving that example is:
"Rangers doesn't have great ball playing defenders, and their keeper is nothing special"
What do you mean by that? Great and nothing special as in compared to what?
They might not be the best but together they might be a good mix of players in order to do that very thing.

[sverige91]

On 07/06/2020 at 14:09, zyfon5 said:

then go play games that you feel are fun. FM is not the game for you if you cannot accept results like this.

Deleted it. 

Edited July 9, 2020 by sverige91

[Novem9]

the worst thing for me when AI Barca vs AI Granada 1-1 and possession 49%-51% for Granada.

Its just because mentality works incorrect. AI low teams play cautious but this is no counter, this is possession. And this is no sence at all 

When AI team starts to play positive/attacking - they start to play much better because their attacks are faster. Mentality needs to be rethink and start to be no-dual 

[dudek1]

On 08/07/2020 at 12:01, yolixeya said:

I would put my CBs to mark tall players but I fear that AI would score goals from corners taiming at 6 yard box. That is where I assign 2 CBs and DM who is also grat in the air. And it is working great for corners, never had problems with it. I struggled more with indirect free kicks in the past but I managed to concede none in my last seson before I left club.

Thanks for this. To clarify for someone like me who needs hand-holding with defending corners, you have essentially the 3 tallest players zonally marking the six yard box, so right next to each other, or more specifically 1) Zonally Mark Six Yard Box Near Centre, 2) Zonally Mark Six Yard Box Centre, 3) Zonally Mark Six Yard Box Far Centre? It doesn't matter who is doing 1, 2 or 3 out of the 3 tall guys?

 

Just lost 3-1 to Spurs, who i should be losing too, but it was 2 corners and one Indirect Free Kick. Makes me feel like if i can sort this, i can pick up points against these bigger teams.

[themadsheep2001]

6 minutes ago, dudek1 said:

Thanks for this. To clarify for someone like me who needs hand-holding with defending corners, you have essentially the 3 tallest players zonally marking the six yard box, so right next to each other, or more specifically 1) Zonally Mark Six Yard Box Near Centre, 2) Zonally Mark Six Yard Box Centre, 3) Zonally Mark Six Yard Box Far Centre? It doesn't matter who is doing 1, 2 or 3 out of the 3 tall guys?

 

Just lost 3-1 to Spurs, who i should be losing too, but it was 2 corners and one Indirect Free Kick. Makes me feel like if i can sort this, i can pick up points against these bigger teams.

Whats your formation Dudek?

[dudek1]

5 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

Whats your formation Dudek?

I have what i would class as a 4-2-3-1. No DM's so 2 CM's although i tend to have one defensive who, once i got deeper into the game and realised i was conceding a lot of set pieces, i ensure is at least 6ft even if he isn't as good as some smaller options. The 3 is an AM and two Wingers. Hope that makes sense.

Should mention that i again do my upmost to ensure the two fullbacks have heading and a bit of height as i noticed not only were corners going in, but they lost a lot of back post headers from crosses. I would probably prefer a pacey Bobby Carlos but as a Goalkeeper myself, its all about the clean sheets!

Edited July 9, 2020 by dudek1

[themadsheep2001]

6 minutes ago, dudek1 said:

I have what i would class as a 4-2-3-1. No DM's so 2 CM's although i tend to have one defensive who, once i got deeper into the game and realised i was conceding a lot of set pieces, i ensure is at least 6ft even if he isn't as good as some smaller options. The 3 is an AM and two Wingers. Hope that makes sense

I've attached my set piece setup collection, its for a 4-3-3, but it should translate well enough to the 4-2-3-1. Just make sure that in the defensive corner, indirect wide, and indirect deep options, the MC marking the six yard centre area is your more aerially defensive mid. 1 corner and 2 free kicks conceded in last 50 games, corners carry a caveat that we dont often concede many chances anyway, but I've committed well over 300 fouls and only been punished by goals twice

433 collection.fmf

[dudek1]

6 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

I've attached my set piece setup collection, its for a 4-3-3, but it should translate well enough to the 4-2-3-1. Just make sure that in the defensive corner, indirect wide, and indirect deep options, the MC marking the six yard centre area is your more aerially defensive mid. 1 corner and 2 free kicks conceded in last 50 games, corners carry a caveat that we dont often concede many chances anyway, but I've committed well over 300 fouls and only been punished by goals twice

433 collection.fmf 37.61 kB · 0 downloads

Thank you for that. I will send it to my personal laptop and give it a go. Really appreciate the help. In my game i will pretend i went to watch an esteemed coach in Italy to learn how they do it, and came back to Nottingham with some fresh ideas!

[yolixeya]

20 minutes ago, dudek1 said:

Thanks for this. To clarify for someone like me who needs hand-holding with defending corners, you have essentially the 3 tallest players zonally marking the six yard box, so right next to each other, or more specifically 1) Zonally Mark Six Yard Box Near Centre, 2) Zonally Mark Six Yard Box Centre, 3) Zonally Mark Six Yard Box Far Centre? It doesn't matter who is doing 1, 2 or 3 out of the 3 tall guys?

Yes, I have them like that. The players that have best jumping reach, bravery and other attributes shown as important for those tasks. I don't think it matters who is doing what but if the corner is on left side I'll put left CB on "Zonally mark six yard box near centre" and right CB on "Zonally mark six yard box f centre" and my DM between them. I also have one player at the edge of the box and one to go forward and I pick them by the attributes required.

It doesn't mean it will work for you as well but you can try. I would still watch from what positions you usally concede the most and then put your strongest defenders there.

 

[dudek1]

3 minutes ago, yolixeya said:

Yes, I have them like that. The players that have best jumping reach, bravery and other attributes shown as important for those tasks. I don't think it matters who is doing what but if the corner is on left side I'll put left CB on "Zonally mark six yard box near centre" and right CB on "Zonally mark six yard box f centre" and my DM between them. I also have one player at the edge of the box and one to go forward and I pick them by the attributes required.

It doesn't mean it will work for you as well but you can try. I would still watch from what positions you usally concede the most and then put your strongest defenders there.

 

Against Spurs the first goal was right were i have a 5ft 9 midfielder zonally marking who Harry Kane just walked in front off. Based on the set piece discussed above, my right CB would have been there instead. I'll give it a go along with Madsheeps tactic

[themadsheep2001]

4 minutes ago, dudek1 said:

Against Spurs the first goal was right were i have a 5ft 9 midfielder zonally marking who Harry Kane just walked in front off. Based on the set piece discussed above, my right CB would have been there instead. I'll give it a go along with Madsheeps tactic

Yep, that's the kind of mismatch that will hurt you. The smallest midfielder who marks that space for me (Six yard box centre area) is 5ft11. It's usually (6ft 2 i think?) Zainolo

[dudek1]

18 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

Yep, that's the kind of mismatch that will hurt you. The smallest midfielder who marks that space for me (Six yard box centre area) is 5ft11. It's usually (6ft 2 i think?) Zainolo

I will add that Kane was also marked by a similar sized player to himself so i still would have hoped between the 2 of my guys they might have stopped him having a tap in, but i can put that down to bad defending. What does affect my enjoyment is the non-compliance of set piece instructions when I buy players based around trying to concede less and also have to spend a couple of minutes pre-game sorting out, which i don't find much fun anyway. At least mark the people i want you too!

Typically i just tried your style for my next game away at Chelsea, but i only did it for left corners and kept my old style for right. Opening goal came from a corner on the right. However it wasn't a goal from the corner precisely as the first header we actually won. It just landed to a Chelsea player near the edge. My player marking Tomori decided it better to join his colleague and charge down the opponent who has his back to goal, leaving Tomori free as a bird to receive a pass wide and smash a belter into the far post from a tight angle. 

I guess that is progress in a way! Next game i will do both sides as you describe! I clearly am terrible at this

[themadsheep2001]

4 minutes ago, dudek1 said:

I will add that Kane was also marked by a similar sized player to himself so i still would have hoped between the 2 of my guys they might have stopped him having a tap in, but i can put that down to bad defending. What does affect my enjoyment is the non-compliance of set piece instructions when I buy players based around trying to concede less and also have to spend a couple of minutes pre-game sorting out, which i don't find much fun anyway. At least mark the people i want you too!

Typically i just tried your style for my next game away at Chelsea, but i only did it for left corners and kept my old style for right. Opening goal came from a corner on the right. However it wasn't a goal from the corner precisely as the first header we actually won. It just landed to a Chelsea player near the edge. My player marking Tomori decided it better to join his colleague and charge down the opponent who has his back to goal, leaving Tomori free as a bird to receive a pass wide and smash a belter into the far post from a tight angle. 

I guess that is progress in a way! Next game i will do both sides as you describe! I clearly am terrible at this

I think there's still some questionable marking choices in the game that need looking at, but hopefully this should help

[dudek1]

Just now, themadsheep2001 said:

I think there's still some questionable marking choices in the game that need looking at, but hopefully this should help

Yes, i am up there with FM's biggest fan since 93 on the Amiga, but i am starting to think this isnt just my shoddy management. Chelsea's 3rd was a corner and again it came from the side i didnt amend. My tallest player designated to Mark Tall Player was marking the 5ft 8 striker. Meanwhile once CB for Chelsea won his header again my 5ft 10 CM and it went to the other CB who nodded it in. He was up against my other CB at least and just bossed him. There is no way stats or morale or anything else can justify why after 2 seasons of doing the same defensive routine with multiple training sessions that my big CB will decide that 5ft 8 striker is who i meant by 'Mark Tall Player'!

[_mxrky]

took me until the 95th minute to score and their goal was a penalty. Whilst their goal was a penalty (my player also missed a penalty in the game). I hate to say that the game is rigged, but sometimes the nonsense in this game is too e to be true. 6 clear cut chances and 3 half chances (one which was an open goal) only gives me 2 goals?

 

 

[GoldenGoal]

Are penalty kicks bugged? Playes miss them all the time.

[Svenc]

5 hours ago, _mxrky said:

took me until the 95th minute to score and their goal was a penalty. Whilst their goal was a penalty (my player also missed a penalty in the game). I hate to say that the game is rigged, but sometimes the nonsense in this game is too e to be true. 6 clear cut chances and 3 half chances (one which was an open goal) only gives me 2 goals?

 

 

A part of the issue is what the game calls a "clear cut Chance". At least you scored not once but actually twice -- counting 9 finishes that would be classed "big Chance" in actual football analysis in this one.
 

 

[Federico]

Atalanta is the best attacking team in serie A. That was TRULY one game off. They scored 85 on 31 games played. Roughly 2.nibbles per game. Not the best example.

[Svenc]

24 minutes ago, Federico said:

Atalanta is the best attacking team in serie A. That was TRULY one game off. 

 

[Federico]

I was referring to the Atalanta - Empoli game, Svenc

Now I don't know if this can apply to the user above, but according to my experience, basically every game I play shows stats like that, more or less.

Last night I ragequitted for yet another game where I put my player in front of the goalkeeper and he just passed the ball gently to him.

For 6 times.

About the link, yeah that's one game off too. But that was a different game about a different thing. In fact I can't see how to contextualize it within these last 4 posts of ours.

One is complaining about shots/goals ratio, another about a streak broken abruptly.

[Aksi92]

I dont know if its because of the engine or what but look at this.

Its 93 min in the game and we are losing 1-0 to OM. My DM-D won the ball and started the counter attack. My striker who scored 47 goals last season is open for simple pass and easy finish. But no! My DM-D is thinking "I won the ball I will score the goal and be the hero!".. man I was so angry at this.

 

[FMunderachiever]

12 minutes ago, Aksi92 said:

I dont know if its because of the engine or what but look at this.

Its 93 min in the game and we are losing 1-0 to OM. My DM-D won the ball and started the counter attack. My striker who scored 47 goals last season is open for simple pass and easy finish. But no! My DM-D is thinking "I won the ball I will score the goal and be the hero!".. man I was so angry at this.

 

Not only was your DM being too selfish, why was the Marseille player ignoring all his team mates and trying to go on a rampage through the middle of the field at 1-0 up in the 93rd minute?

God this game at times

[MBarbaric]

that DM has to be the slowest man on planet. He was so far ahead of strootman and still allowed him to catch up.

also, look at white CB #20. Instead of closing down the man running straight on to the goal, he decides to mark #9.

[Federico]

7 ore fa, MBarbaric ha scritto:

also, look at white CB #20. Instead of closing down the man running straight on to the goal, he decides to mark #9.

True. It's like if tight marking was set on, and you clearly see him being the closest guy to #9. Once clinched he ignores his surroundings.

I think we all expected to see #20 closing down on #33, #18 shifting inside. Not sure how this can be a nightmare to get right from a dev point of view, but I don't think is something impossible to achieve.

[CaptCanuck]

1 hour ago, MBarbaric said:

that DM has to be the slowest man on planet. He was so far ahead of strootman and still allowed him to catch up.

also, look at white CB #20. Instead of closing down the man running straight on to the goal, he decides to mark #9.

Ya that's an interesting one (maybe he has low pace, but good accel, relative to Strootman and it comes across quite exaggerated) you'd need to do the math on acceleration, pace, agility, and metres covered to see if that was possible. Assuming that's what the engine does.

The 'worst' thing really is the decision for Strootman legging it up the pitch, that does not make sense.

Edited July 10, 2020 by CaptCanuck

[Aksi92]

1 hour ago, MBarbaric said:

that DM has to be the slowest man on planet. He was so far ahead of strootman and still allowed him to catch up.

I am not going to post Strootman SS, every can find him in the game. Its year 2024 and he is 33 years old.

But look at my DM

 

Edited July 10, 2020 by Aksi92

[CaptCanuck]

15 minutes ago, Aksi92 said:

I am not going to post Strootman SS, every can find him in the game. Its year 2024 and he is 33 years old.

But look at my DM

 

Ha. Banana peel then? Was it raining? Maybe he was doing cartwheels and 2d cannot show that? :-)

Kidding aside, I am guessing a dribbling of 6 could seriously slow him down? Of course a 30+ Strootman in the 93rd minute if he'd played the whole match...

Edited July 10, 2020 by CaptCanuck

[HUNT3R]

2 hours ago, MBarbaric said:

that DM has to be the slowest man on planet. He was so far ahead of strootman and still allowed him to catch up.

You can see that he slowed down though, weighing up options. This wasn't about raw pace.

[MBarbaric]

58 minuti fa, HUNT3R ha scritto:

You can see that he slowed down though, weighing up options. This wasn't about raw pace.

really? be serious.

 he is running straight to the goal. the closest opposition player marks his team mate and doesn't move to close him down... the only decision he had to make was to pass for that marked striker a moment ago, or to go himself straight at goal. he chose to go himself and he was caught by strootman's tracktorbeam. 

seriously, silly things happen on the pitch all the time and one can make whatever excuse. it would be interesting if SI could actually look at the numbers behind it and see why that sequence of events actually happened.

[HUNT3R]

3 minutes ago, MBarbaric said:

really? be serious.

 

Raw pace is two players chasing after the same ball. Not one dribbling and the other one chasing. Not one weighing up options while the other is at full pace.

 

The GIF clearly shows that he slowed down. That's not opinion. WHY he slowed down can be discussed and it could be legit or a bug, but the fact that he did is right there.

[MBarbaric]

1 minuto fa, HUNT3R ha scritto:

The GIF clearly shows that he slowed down. That's not opinion. WHY he slowed down can be discussed and it could be legit or a bug, but the fact that he did is right there.

but tractorbeam theory explains that problem!

[CaptCanuck]

10 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

 

Raw pace is two players chasing after the same ball. Not one dribbling and the other one chasing. Not one weighing up options while the other is at full pace.

 

The GIF clearly shows that he slowed down. That's not opinion. WHY he slowed down can be discussed and it could be legit or a bug, but the fact that he did is right there.

That's what I was getting at earlier, so there would be some maths going on in that chase. Taking the vertices of a pitch model, plus the intersection of the change of possession, subsequently plugging in the players running attributes, the guy's poor dribbling serving as some kind of penalty multiplier and the like?

I'll do a search, but does SI have any tech explainers? Obviously it's not open-source project and they cannot be throwing out IP for kicks, but just wondered. Again I'll search but just wondered if that type of info is even findable.

Edit: Oops, sorry you're a mod, was thinking you were an SI person :-)

Edited July 10, 2020 by CaptCanuck

[HUNT3R]

20 minutes ago, CaptCanuck said:

That's what I was getting at earlier, so there would be some maths going on in that chase. Taking the vertices of a pitch model, plus the intersection of the change of possession, subsequently plugging in the players running attributes, the guy's poor dribbling serving as some kind of penalty multiplier and the like?

I'll do a search, but does SI have any tech explainers? Obviously it's not open-source project and they cannot be throwing out IP for kicks, but just wondered. Again I'll search but just wondered if that type of info is even findable.

IMO, he slowed down (and he obviously did) because he was weighing up options. Should he have? I would say no, but with the hindsight of what happened. Debatable, but I'd go for probably not, even without the hindsight. Did his attributes influence him? Probably. Did his Body Language affect anything? Maybe. Did team gelling have an influence? Don't know but it could have. He could have been waiting for a run from the forward for an easy chance, but that run didn't really pan out. Did the forward make the mistake here in not running/timing movement? That's 50/50 for me. He was occupying a few defenders, so it should have been down to the ball carrier to make something happen. If it wasn't for Strootman coming back, it would have been interesting as one of those defenders would have needed to pull away to cover and that would have granted more space for the forward.

It reminds me of the Rooney assist. 

 

 

Rooney was never the fastest. Here he chases someone who is faster (according to FM) because that player stopped sprinting and looked for options. Is it because of Rooney's fantastic pace? Obviously not. Something similar happened with Rooney in possession because he looked who to cross/pass to and the chasing defender was at full speed.

 

These slow downs do happen. Do they happen too much? Too little? Do they happen in certain situations where they shouldn't? That can definitely be argued. We've been shown one passage of play so can only work on that. It's not something I've paid too much attention to, but it looks like I will now!

[CaptCanuck]

^Ya I reckon that slow down can be mitigated - based on his physicals alone (dribbling, technique, long shooting) could simply be having the ball stuck in his feet, transitioning from dribbling to shooting. He has high decisions, so that should mitigate against needing to have a think.

As mentioned above - if we were to look at that snippet as a 'bug' - the DM's run to the box is really just the end result of the actual potential behavioural issue of Strootman's unnecessary rush forward while protecting a lead in the 93rd min. Had he scored and the match end in a draw, a human manager of FCSM would then have had a claim, using the same clip :-)

Edited July 10, 2020 by CaptCanuck

[Pasonen]

7 hours ago, Aksi92 said:

 

Theres multiple thing could have been executed better. 1)MR reaction and speed usage was slow after ball was intercepted  2) ST choose central Channel vs right channel and maybe because of that didnt get a pass. 3) dm accelerated too long and then pass was too late to make. One burst and then pass to st.

Understanding side of things:

1) DM was being DM def role and thinking of that its miracle he dribbles and dont make easy pass for st's feet at middle circle position. 2) st is well marked because he choose center channel and he cant be played.

[enigmatic]

Seriously, if you haven't watched elite footballers do worse than that on the counter you haven't watched much football. I wouldn't expect a DM with a Dribbling of 6 and probable DM duties to even try to outpace opponents into the left hand channel, and equally it's not surprising his very mediocre mental and technical abilities means he doesn't decide on a through ball before he runs out of other options. The shot from where he ends up isn't even a terrible option... for a better player.

Strangest thing is the movement of the #20 central defender prioritising man marking over forcing the DM wide [and yeah, Strootman's initial run is worse too, and probably exposing more weaknesses in an ME that doesn't really do 'game management'] . But then that weird defending is also why there wasn't a good passing option into the central striker....

[AvidFMer]

My overall impressions from FM20: 

• Long shots way too OP - played against Man City with Wolves and the most infuriating thing I've ever had happen in FM was Rodri scoring a hatrick against me bearing in mind that these were all long shots way out of the box and iirc 2 of them were with his weaker foot and one was on the half volley. Rui Patricio is no slouch in the game so I just couldn't accept what I was seeing. Lost the game 6 -1 and I was at home. Even though it's City but still. In fact the amount of long shot goals in this version are wayyyy tooo many. This was not the way I remember previous FMs.

 

• Set pieces are also too OP - I'm seeing a lot of goals coming from corners and indirect free kicks (both for and against).

 

• Creating an effective defensive / counter attacking tactic is way too difficult - tried different formations and instructions without any success. And I wouldn't say I'm a novice at creating FM tactics. Even when defending narrow you end up conceding goals to long shots or shots from edge of the area even when you're supposedly congesting that area of the pitch.

 

• One thing I've always hated is the instant highlight from a corner or FK that you KNOW is gonna be a goal conceded as there's no context to what happened before the corner or FK. Although this has been there for years now.

 

• Where is the variation of goals? Very rarely do I see through balls get played in between the channels. I don't see players rounding the keeper very often or chipped goals, overhead kicks are probably something you see once in a blue moon. Only seen 1 cutback across the face of goal for a tap in and I couldn't believe my eyes. The rest of the time its shots into the side netting, goals from set pieces and crosses.

 

• The funny thing is that you can also easily tell when someone is gonna miss a 1v1. You have Diogo Jota making a mazy run, he dribbles past 2/3 defenders then left with the no one in front of him other than the keeper and then he either puts it wide or hits what looks like a tame shot straight at the GK

 

• Pressing works well, perhaps too well in fact - with the right combination of player roles, formation and instructions. You don't really see the effects of fatigue kicking in. No team can press effectively for a full 90 minutes not even Liverpool but the game isn't able to mirror this reality.

 

• You also get too many of those away games against relegation fodder where you dominate every single statistic and end up losing to a single goal (no surprises if its a set piece with no context) with way better players

 

I did 3 Wolves saves before I called it quits. It's like I cannot buy a win away from home in the Premier League no matter what I do. Yet at the Molineux you have Adama Traore who has rubbish mental attributes playing like a world beater at RWB every time. I don't get it.

I don't know if other people experience this but I personally always get the itch to play the latest FM after I haven't played in a really long while. There's a lot that's good about the game even though the above doesn't convey it. I love the granular control you get when it comes to selecting players, the scouting reports with the star ratings next to them are great and everything, planning transfers and loans is also fun but the match experience is not up to scratch imo.

I got hooked to FM back in 2010 and I think I played FM10, FM11, skipped 12 and played 13, the demo of FM15 and the FM 18 demo before skipping to 19 and then now 20. The match engine looks the same as it did back then, and I get the whole thing of SI not wanting to lose customers using old laptops but surely surely they've got to make the graphics better somehow? How is it realistic for a player to be running at full speed then stop dead and put in a cross from a standing position?

Anyway that's just my take on it. Don't get me wrong though for £30 a year the game is insane value and I put a lot of hours into it (although much less in the years gone by). 

Edited July 10, 2020 by AvidFMer

[roykela]

1 hour ago, enigmatic said:

Strangest thing is the movement of the #20 central defender prioritising man marking over forcing the DM wide 

When i watched the highlight it felt like i was watching Mustafi and/or David Luiz irl

Edited July 10, 2020 by roykela

[steam just is]

1 hour ago, AvidFMer said:

My overall impressions from FM20: 

• Long shots way too OP - played against Man City with Wolves and the most infuriating thing I've ever had happen in FM was Rodri scoring a hatrick against me bearing in mind that these were all long shots way out of the box and iirc 2 of them were with his weaker foot and one was on the half volley. Rui Patricio is no slouch in the game so I just couldn't accept what I was seeing. Lost the game 6 -1 and I was at home. Even though it's City but still. In fact the amount of long shot goals in this version are wayyyy tooo many. This was not the way I remember previous FMs.

 

• Set pieces are also too OP - I'm seeing a lot of goals coming from corners and indirect free kicks (both for and against).

 

• Creating an effective defensive / counter attacking tactic is way too difficult - tried different formations and instructions without any success. And I wouldn't say I'm a novice at creating FM tactics. Even when defending narrow you end up conceding goals to long shots or shots from edge of the area even when you're supposedly congesting that area of the pitch.

 

• One thing I've always hated is the instant highlight from a corner or FK that you KNOW is gonna be a goal conceded as there's no context to what happened before the corner or FK. Although this has been there for years now.

 

• Where is the variation of goals? Very rarely do I see through balls get played in between the channels. I don't see players rounding the keeper very often or chipped goals, overhead kicks are probably something you see once in a blue moon. Only seen 1 cutback across the face of goal for a tap in and I couldn't believe my eyes. The rest of the time its shots into the side netting, goals from set pieces and crosses.

 

• The funny thing is that you can also easily tell when someone is gonna miss a 1v1. You have Diogo Jota making a mazy run, he dribbles past 2/3 defenders then left with the no one in front of him other than the keeper and then he either puts it wide or hits what looks like a tame shot straight at the GK

 

• Pressing works well, perhaps too well in fact - with the right combination of player roles, formation and instructions. You don't really see the effects of fatigue kicking in. No team can press effectively for a full 90 minutes not even Liverpool but the game isn't able to mirror this reality.

 

• You also get too many of those away games against relegation fodder where you dominate every single statistic and end up losing to a single goal (no surprises if its a set piece with no context) with way better players

 

I did 3 Wolves saves before I called it quits. It's like I cannot buy a win away from home in the Premier League no matter what I do. Yet at the Molineux you have Adama Traore who has rubbish mental attributes playing like a world beater at RWB every time. I don't get it.

I don't know if other people experience this but I personally always get the itch to play the latest FM after I haven't played in a really long while. There's a lot that's good about the game even though the above doesn't convey it. I love the granular control you get when it comes to selecting players, the scouting reports with the star ratings next to them are great and everything, planning transfers and loans is also fun but the match experience is not up to scratch imo.

I got hooked to FM back in 2010 and I think I played FM10, FM11, skipped 12 and played 13, the demo of FM15 and the FM 18 demo before skipping to 19 and then now 20. The match engine looks the same as it did back then, and I get the whole thing of SI not wanting to lose customers using old laptops but surely surely they've got to make the graphics better somehow? How is it realistic for a player to be running at full speed then stop dead and put in a cross from a standing position?

Anyway that's just my take on it. Don't get me wrong though for £30 a year the game is insane value and I put a lot of hours into it (although much less in the years gone by). 

You sum it up perfectly. The lack of variety is the killer. Games are so monotonous. It’s wasn’t like this a few years back.I really don’t mind the silly glitches, they can’t replicate real life obviously but SI. seem to be tunnel visioned. When commenting a few weeks back Neil brock replied and said how much time and effort they put into the game should be acknowledged. I complained to BA a few years back, they didn’t reply by saying it’s really hard to fly a plane. SI just need to say they hear us. Because so many people are saying the same damn things. it’s boring, repetitive and really really lacks creativity. Frankly the ME20 is pretty awful.

imagine playing FMT on an iPad Pro. FMT is really all about the match. Firstly three years ago they lowered the graphics quality but not the price. Now they’ve made the match a bore. Never has a game needed competition more than FM. It’s so far ahead of the competition that they’ve lost sight of the customer. I’d love to stop playing it but even a rubbish version with awful graphics beats everything else hands down. However, 21 is the first one I won’t buy blind. 

question for SI in advance so I don’t get disappointed....

are you working on a 2 tier graphics model for FM and FMT21 so that those of us with new kit can get decent graphics? or at least shading and focus on tablets so the players don’t look like blurred ants on 75% of the pitch on data analyst mode?

 

[zyfon5]

6 hours ago, AvidFMer said:

My overall impressions from FM20: 

• Long shots way too OP - played against Man City with Wolves and the most infuriating thing I've ever had happen in FM was Rodri scoring a hatrick against me bearing in mind that these were all long shots way out of the box and iirc 2 of them were with his weaker foot and one was on the half volley. Rui Patricio is no slouch in the game so I just couldn't accept what I was seeing. Lost the game 6 -1 and I was at home. Even though it's City but still. In fact the amount of long shot goals in this version are wayyyy tooo many. This was not the way I remember previous FMs.

FM18 was notoriously bad for long shots you almost could never score from long shots. I might be in the minority here but i never feel long shots were a problem for me in this FM20. I can remember conceding only a few long shots when I play defensively meaning that most of the long shots are contested and didnt go in. It is important to contest long shots. Undefended long shots are deadly.

 

6 hours ago, AvidFMer said:

Creating an effective defensive / counter attacking tactic is way too difficult - tried different formations and instructions without any success. And I wouldn't say I'm a novice at creating FM tactics. Even when defending narrow you end up conceding goals to long shots or shots from edge of the area even when you're supposedly congesting that area of the pitch.

Check my counter attacking thread and other counter attacking thread in the tactics forum.

 

6 hours ago, AvidFMer said:

Pressing works well, perhaps too well in fact - with the right combination of player roles, formation and instructions. You don't really see the effects of fatigue kicking in. No team can press effectively for a full 90 minutes not even Liverpool but the game isn't able to mirror this reality.

Funny because people complain that opponent players pass too easily at the back at the same time.

[GoldenGoal]

It's hard to take the game seriously when strikers are as unreliable as this and the GKs can read minds. (Note how the GK is already crouching before he shoots).

Why bother with counter attacks or patient possession play if strikers even when clear on goal can't do their jobs?

   

Edited July 11, 2020 by GoldenGoal

[yolixeya]

6 hours ago, zyfon5 said:

FM18 was notoriously bad for long shots you almost could never score from long shots. I might be in the minority here but i never feel long shots were a problem for me in this FM20. I can remember conceding only a few long shots when I play defensively meaning that most of the long shots are contested and didnt go in. It is important to contest long shots. Undefended long shots are deadly.

Yes, FM18 and even FM19 long shots were too rare, however in FM20 are maybe a little to common. A perfect balance would be somewhere between those versions. I don't concede them too often either, but I noticed that I score them more when playing against defences that defend deep and I think it can be mitigated by just pushing you DL up and not alowing space. And that is why I would agree with him that is just harder to make system where you defend deep in this version. Before you woold just not get punished at all, because long shots were non existant and now are a little OP.

5 hours ago, GoldenGoal said:

It's hard to take the game seriously when strikers are as unreliable as this and the GKs can read minds. (Note how the GK is already crouching before he shoots).

GK crouching is just a graphical thing. If FM had a graphics like PES for example, tah chance would be better represented. 

[Aksi92]

Steal and easy pass for easy goal, right?

 

[AvidFMer]

9 hours ago, zyfon5 said:

FM18 was notoriously bad for long shots you almost could never score from long shots. I might be in the minority here but i never feel long shots were a problem for me in this FM20. I can remember conceding only a few long shots when I play defensively meaning that most of the long shots are contested and didnt go in. It is important to contest long shots. Undefended long shots are deadly.

 

Check my counter attacking thread and other counter attacking thread in the tactics forum.

 

Funny because people complain that opponent players pass too easily at the back at the same time.

Fair enough. My experience with long shots is entirely the opposite of yours. Whenever I see the opposition laying it off on the edge of the area or even slightly further out I instantly expect it to be a goal no matter which player it is. And it happens to me regardless of the opposition.

 

I've had a look at a few threads on counter attacking here, especially the ones where Experienced Defender has replied. I've applied the principles imo but I'm not getting any success.

 

I initially struggled with pressing but once I tweaked the formation by making it more top heavy and adjusted PIs and TIs it was very effective. 

Edited July 11, 2020 by AvidFMer

[robot_skeleton]

On 09/07/2020 at 12:44, Novem9 said:

the worst thing for me when AI Barca vs AI Granada 1-1 and possession 49%-51% for Granada.

Its just because mentality works incorrect. AI low teams play cautious but this is no counter, this is possession. And this is no sence at all 

When AI team starts to play positive/attacking - they start to play much better because their attacks are faster. Mentality needs to be rethink and start to be no-dual 

I actually don't mind that lower mentalities keep the ball and play possession. But then pressing should be improved so that we could take the ball away from these teams. Right now I see ridiculous things when trying to press the opposition in their own half, not sure how it can be in the game.

[hearth1969]

On 11/07/2020 at 01:19, AvidFMer said:

My overall impressions from FM20: 

……..

The funny thing is that you can also easily tell when someone is gonna miss a 1v1. You have Diogo Jota making a mazy run, he dribbles past 2/3 defenders then left with the no one in front of him other than the keeper and then he either puts it wide or hits what looks like a tame shot straight at the GK

……..

Anyway that's just my take on it. Don't get me wrong though for £30 a year the game is insane value and I put a lot of hours into it (although much less in the years gone by). 

I can't say if you're right on missed 1vs1s but it seems like Kozlowski had enough of them and decides to show my strikers how it's done!

I also quoted your "insane value" statement as I absolutely agree, despite everything else.

(I know I said I wouldn't post on this thread anymore but broke my promise to add a funny note)

 

Edit: I think it was his Vision rating of 19 that helped him.. envision.. the outcome!

Edited July 12, 2020 by hearth1969
Addition

[Pasonen]

2 hours ago, hearth1969 said:

Edit: I think it was his Vision rating of 19 that helped him.. envision.. the outcome!

Edited 1 hour ago by hearth1969
Addition

I would have expected more patient pass to corner of the goal with places shots trait

[GoldenGoal]

Is there something bugged with the "Low crosses" instruction? Time and time again I see players making float crosses while low crosses is selected.

[Overmars]

On 11/07/2020 at 01:14, zyfon5 said:

Funny because people complain that opponent players pass too easily at the back at the same time.

Both complaints are true. Passive opponents can keep possession too easily, and the only way you can really counter this is to max out your pressing urgency and aggression. If you don't try to press your opponents, they will hold the ball for a 0-0 result. If you do press them, at least then you can occasionally force a mistake, though nowhere near as effectively as would happen in real life if a crappy team tried to hold the ball all match against Liverpool-esque teams.

[Tiger666]

1 hour ago, GoldenGoal said:

Is there something bugged with the "Low crosses" instruction? Time and time again I see players making float crosses while low crosses is selected.

It doesn't make any difference. Was bug reported many times.