Football Manager TV: Tactics

[MHovel]

8 minutes ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

Well yes, but the beta isn't even out yet, how on earth can you 'raise concerns' on something you've only seen a handful of 5 minute videos on and never played yourself? 

As is so often said, if you're unsure about it, wait for the demo, try that and then you're in a far better position to (constructively) 'raise concerns'. 

However, it's an open forum, so everyone has the right to post whatever they want, within the house rules, so fill yer boots. 

Yes, waiting for the demo to test the final product is the final conclusion.

But the video didn't even covered those areas where the users asked for a very long period time, which why people start to question and even they get a "picture" (dejavu) of what is coming next or what they are going to get, and to be fair, that's why they are so disappointed with the video.

When a customer being dissapointed from a product and raising his "concerns", it's better for SI, than having a customer being disappointed and they won't hear from him again.

Edited October 12, 2017 by MHovel

[sporadicsmiles]

Seems very positive to me, they have added things that needed to be added, given fixed roles (as Rashidi says which means the AI can use them) that players have been able to customise for some time and use to devastating effect. The ability to see at a glance where your tactic is failing is something people have wanted for as long as I can remember. Now you can see where you may be vulnerable, you can check what you are doing well and what is going wrong in the panel at the bottom. This means you do not have to hopelessly try to analyse things yourself when you lack experience to do so. It does not mean you can stop to watch what happens on the pitch, but it does mean you should be able to create a balanced formation easier off the bat.

For the people complaining at what is missing, or what they have not seen. Some of the issues, such as defensive width, particularly of fullbacks and wide midfielders, are match engine issues, not tactical ones. We have to wait for the ME video, the beta, and the demo/release to truly know if these have changed. Ditto pressing, again there is already instructions for this in the game, and we have to see how the ME has changed to implement them. The whole fluidity and creative freedom thing does not make sense to complain about. You know what happens, and there are options to be more disciplined/expressive, plus player instructions, to counteract any drop/raise in the creative freedom you observe. It even makes sense that a highly structured team has low creative freedom, since they are supposed to adhere to your tactical structure. The reverse for very fluid, players are supposed to deviate more from your instructions. 

I also like the look of the pre-match meeting, especially if you can explain to players why they are rotated, tell them about players/areas of the opposition you want to try to exploit, explain tactical choices, and get feedback from experienced players. I do not worry it is going to have a big influence anyway, team talks are not as influential as people make out. The build up to a match and how you talk to players and media is much more important. 

I think the main thing I have taken from these videos so far is that there are a lot more options for getting feedback on what is going on in different aspects of your team. Hopefully, this means less head scratching when things are not working. 

[ben carter]

35 minutes ago, RorysRocketThrow said:

I wonder exactly what the personalise button does, in relation to the PI's?

Presume it allows you to alter the standard PI's for that role i.e shorter passing, tackle harder etc  

[Dagenham_Dave]

Just now, MHovel said:

But the video didn't even covered those areas where the users asked for a very long period time, which why people start to question and even they get a "picture" (dejavu) of what is coming next or what they are going to get, and to be fair, that's why they are so disappointed with the video.

 

But people were expecting announcements on things like 'fixing defensive positioning' and the introduction of wild 'pressing' techniques - None of that would have been in such a video. It's a video explaining a few of the new features, not one addressing concerns that a few users had from the previous games. People have wildly unrealistic expectations of what should be included in these videos. 

[Rashidi]

2 minutes ago, Barside said:

I was intrigued by this part of the video & it is an addition that interests me from the perspective of making tactics more accessible to a wider range of FM players, my fear is that it will not be adaptive to actual match history with the same potential weaknesses being highlighted week after week despite results & performances showing otherwise & the user ending up confused as they plug gaps that the UI tells them exist only to miss the  real issues as played out in the ME.

I share the same fears, the last thing I want to see is something that gets quickly redundant. It has to adapt to new roles or new players and even how partnerships are doing in real life. We have seen sides with good defences getting undone with new players inserted into the mix.  I am actually surprised at SI's boldness in introducing so many elements concurrently. The challenge to make all these modules work together in a seamless way is massive. SI have not something like this since the TC was introduced, and even then the changes weren't as sweeping.  The challenge for the devs is only going to get harder with the heightened expectations that follow. We've gone from 2D to 3D, then we went sliders to Tactical Creator, none of those compare to what they are doing now. 

The lowest denominator is that they have laid the groundwork for them to roll out the new features that they haven't been able to due to limitations in existing modules. I am quietly hopeful that this creates the groundwork for what they can do for the future. At the very least I enjoy a new UI with some cool new modules, after all we all know the match engine development is iterative by nature. I remember the same sort of reactions when the TC was rolled out the first time.  

[KUBI]

4 minutes ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

But people were expecting announcements on things like 'fixing defensive positioning' 

The video was about tactics, this could be more a match engine issue.

[ChelseaSince86]

1 hour ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

The usual wave of negativity I see. For me, this looks very promising. The biggest evolution is the graphical representation of where  the weaknesses are in a tactic, taking into account positions and roles. As I create my own tactics rather than download them, this is massive. Good job. Along with the dynamics and scouting enhancements, this is the most I've looked forward to a new FM in years! 

Tactics video, plus training (if there is one) were always going to be the 2 which had the largest amount of negativity. Every year

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, Rashidi said:

I share the same fears, the last thing I want to see is something that gets quickly redundant. It has to adapt to new roles or new players and even how partnerships are doing in real life. We have seen sides with good defences getting undone with new players inserted into the mix.  I am actually surprised at SI's boldness in introducing so many elements concurrently. The challenge to make all these modules work together in a seamless way is massive. SI have not something like this since the TC was introduced, and even then the changes weren't as sweeping.  The challenge for the devs is only going to get harder with the heightened expectations that follow. We've gone from 2D to 3D, then we went sliders to Tactical Creator, none of those compare to what they are doing now. 

The lowest denominator is that they have laid the groundwork for them to roll out the new features that they haven't been able to due to limitations in existing modules. I am quietly hopeful that this creates the groundwork for what they can do for the future. At the very least I enjoy a new UI with some cool new modules, after all we all know the match engine development is iterative by nature. I remember the same sort of reactions when the TC was rolled out the first time.  

Based on what we've seen they certainly look to move into more complex aspects of the real life game & respect has to be given for taking that step, the pudding eating metaphor perfectly applies here as it looks like there are a lot of new ingredients being added to the FM mixture & dearly hope that they have got the mix bang on because I've missed playing FM & really want this one to be an out of the box classic, I don't want a end product that isn't quite right but will be when FM20 turns up.

[Bunkerossian]

Liking the set piece changes a lot! Inverted Wingers I'm confused by, but I suppose I'll learn how they actually work.

[Guest El Payaso]

Closing down issues plus defensive positioning really are more down to the ME instead of tactics and while no new tactical instructions have been added there at least probably won't be anything new in the ME in terms of closing down. Closing down itself would be the key for many answers like roles demanding more from the players and some tactical instructions being less powerful. Like for example using the BWM type of player without any real skill and you had the option to actually press him, then he actually could be in trouble when in possession. And also it would be possible to actually punish those teams that always deliver short and play out of defense.

Better pressing in the ME would most definitely mean that we would have to consider more what instructions or roles we use as we actually could be punished for our stupid tactical choices. With the current state I don't feel that we need to really worry about those things. 

IRL I remember couple of years ago when Arsenal were playing in the Champions league against Barcelona and we could all see the struggle that Alex Song had when he was set to come deep to get the ball and Barcelona simply just used that ruthlessly to their advantage. So while Song was a good player he wasn't up to that type of role in that type of game and that is what we should also witness in Football Manager. Good example of this missing was @Rashidi playing a League 1/Championship level midfielder successfully at the very top level of football in his Gloucester(?) save.

[Andrew_Goats_Gruff]

The amount of negativity around these new features is a joke. Fans want game developers to show effort in their improvements. When S.I do it, it’s not good enough if it’s not got this or got that. If you want perfection then do it in real life, stop putting other people of the game because YOUR not happy. It’s a game we all put over 100+ in to, so stop whining and appreciate the efforts of S.I. who have clearly this year, put a good amount of effort in. 

 

Look at FIFA and PES.

ones gone back 4 years (FIFA 14 pace abuse)

 

ones took 2 years to look the same but improve goalkeepers.

[HUNT3R]

I would at least just like the pressing to "feel" more intense. Heavy pressing doesn't look very intense in the ME, although you can still see the players being pressure, so any improvement there is already a step forward.

[Tony Wright 747]

2 hours ago, Dalglish said:

Have to say, with the exception of the scouting vid, I'm feeling pretty underwhelmed with the new features.

The match engine video's really going to have to pull it out of the bag.

 

Those are my thoughts as well at this moment in time

[Guest El Payaso]

7 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

I would at least just like the pressing to "feel" more intense. Heavy pressing doesn't look very intense in the ME, although you can still see the players being pressure, so any improvement there is already a step forward.

Exactly, both in terms of how the ME will look and also what it demands from us as managers and from our players tactically.

It's not like players should all the time be chasing the ball but at least if you are trying to pass the ball around at 20-25 meters from the opposition goal then you should have to face some resistance and your players to be rushed to take tough first touch pass attempts. Definitely don't want to see things being the same they were on FM 2017.

[MHovel]

7 minutes ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

But people were expecting announcements on things like 'fixing defensive positioning' and the introduction of wild 'pressing' techniques - None of that would have been in such a video. It's a video explaining a few of the new features, not one addressing concerns that a few users had from the previous games. People have wildly unrealistic expectations of what should be included in these videos. 

1st of all, I will talk about me personally. SI does a fantastic job in general, the product in general is amazing I put a lot of time on FM17 and in previous releases even though i put more time in searching for proper feature descriptions.

Yes, some people might have high expactations, and even unrealistic ones from an engine and there are some who doesn't even care reloding the game every time they lose a match.

Even before playing the Demo, the impression getting from watching the video (tactic screen), is that we are going to get the same flaws from the engine this year, and by flaws i'm not talking about positiong issues and high pressing lines and those who were mentioned here before, but again, it might be a wrong impression and I believe that who thought that way, will be gladly to be wrong.

I'm more concerned about the most basic role in footabll, the offside trap which is absolutely bad in FM, THE MOST BASIC ROLE TO FOOTBALL that ruins user experience in the game.

now, not saying that offside role is easy to translate in the engine, but this is an era they should have put more effort to improve in my opinion (obviously people probably have other opinions and I highly respect that), but it ruined a lot of users experience and not for me only for a lot of users here in the forums, just go to the bug forums and witness how many just reported it and now, imagine how many didn't reported it even though it's annoying.

I mentioned the offside issue because you are saying that pressing technique is too wildly unrealistic or people have high expectation, and maybe you are right in some extend that it might be hard to implement such techniques to the ME.

but what about the most basic role in football, is it too high expectation, if it's a high expectation for the ME, maybe it's time to take a step forward and please listen, I'm not saying it's easy to implement a new engine for football game, no, but if the basics doesn't work properly, than it's time to think different, because if it's impossible or very hard to implement such basic role, or basic "pressing technique" for a football that suppose to stimulate real life than it's not really a real simulation and selling it with words such as "real life simulation" or "the most closest to real life" is basically spitting in our faces. 

I didn't played the demo yet to experience if the offside is the same experience as FM17 and previous fm's, but if it's the same on FM18 and on FM19 presentation I'm going to see the same engine, I'm immediately gonna exit the video without even watching it as a whole (You can call it storm out ).

[Guest]

24 minutes ago, Andrew_Goats_Gruff said:

The amount of negativity around these new features is a joke. Fans want game developers to show effort in their improvements. When S.I do it, it’s not good enough if it’s not got this or got that. If you want perfection then do it in real life, stop putting other people of the game because YOUR not happy. It’s a game we all put over 100+ in to, so stop whining and appreciate the efforts of S.I. who have clearly this year, put a good amount of effort in. 

 

Look at FIFA and PES.

ones gone back 4 years (FIFA 14 pace abuse)

 

ones took 2 years to look the same but improve goalkeepers.

No point in comparing FM to FIFA or PES, they may be based on the same real life sport but the genres are very different & as such create different technical challenges & player expectations, it also portrays an acceptance of least worst outcome is a positive outcome which is terrible for the end users.

As for the comments of negatively I don't see it that way, yes the expectation of some within the forum community are high but that is based on what we believe SI are capable of off, at least for me anyway & I'm not seeing what you'd call destructive negativity just honest feedback on short teaser cvideos, There does appear to be concerns among some that SI will not hit the marks they are aiming for & that is based on recent releases that have had some very annoying & inherently unavoidable issues so a little scepticism is hardly surprising,

Let those of us who are not convinced have our say, I''m sure we'll all happily eat humble pie if FM18 turns out to be a brilliant game & I'd likewise like to hope that if it's not we won't sit here telling you & others that we told you so, I certainly won't but please stop telling those with a contrary opinion to yours to stop whining, it's a horrible attitude to have & is as negative as the not negative comments you seem to be all too happy to criticise.

Edit: Probably worth mentioning this for some, as a former member of the AQ team I include myself in being critical of seeing a game released with issues you later realise should have been picked up, it happens & it hurts like a mother...., it probably also puts me near teh top of the tree in terms of critical assessment of subsequent releases because I know how high the talent level is at SI. 

[RBKalle]

Am I the only one who wishes for FEWER options, roles and OIs?

So far (ie. until FM17) the in-game feedback, both in the ME itself and from the staff, hasn't been as good or as informative as it the sheer amount of options would have required.

We players still need either to go through long and tedious trial-and-error process, or through "tactical masterclasses" on this board (or elsewhere), unless we sort of stumble across a tactic that works well enough to allow us to minimize the impact of the many quirks of the ME and of the game itself.

So, while the new features seem to be interesting and whatnot, I do maintain the tactical side needed a hefty downsizing, instead of getting more stuff added to further confusion.

P.S. Why not adding some default "complete" tactics, with instructions etc? That would reduce the need for newbies and those with not enough time or desire to fine-tuning their own creation to download "supertactics" (and then moan about them, or their improbable 2-3-3-2, not working as expected).

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, RBKalle said:

Am I the only one who wishes for FEWER options, roles and OIs?

More is great as it gives the AI managers more tool to create realistic & challenging tactical approaches, the last thing I ever want to see are fewer roles that have more customisation . At least not until the AI is capable of creating its own custom roles but very few people will really want to see that as that's when FM really because a test of tactical acumen.

[Fabregas_04]

Wish people with knowledge of the game and games would crowdfund some competition. Every year things get more and more "meh"

 

First version I'll not have bought in 20 years, but you know, meh.

 

[Atarin]

56 minutes ago, Bunkerossian said:

Liking the set piece changes a lot! Inverted Wingers I'm confused by, but I suppose I'll learn how they actually work.

In simple terms its an Inside Foward in the RM/LM position. I'm hoping it addresses the issue of not being able to get these players to cross because that is sorely lacking. In the lower leagues its not unusual for Inverted-Wingers to nip inside and send an inswinging cross from the inside channel with their good foot.

[Alekos]

I remember conversations about pressing and better defensive response since FM2012...Nothing has changed since then on this sector and in my opinion it became worse in FM2017 when in formations like 4-4-2 4-4-1-1 or similar even with narrow width instructions the full backs were marking the wide attackers which is unreal in a 4-4-2 system that you want to be solid...That destroyed FM2017 in which I spent very few hours playing..If this has not been fixed this year sorry but I wont be buying this game since what I care most in a Football Sim game are the tactics and the match engine not some social media, tweets and fancy skins...

[apvmoreira]

11 minutes ago, Alekos said:

I remember conversations about pressing and better defensive response since FM2012...Nothing has changed since then on this sector and in my opinion it became worse in FM2017 when in formations like 4-4-2 4-4-1-1 or similar even with narrow width instructions the full backs were marking the wide attackers which is unreal in a 4-4-2 system that you want to be solid...That destroyed FM2017 in which I spent very few hours playing..If this has not been fixed this year sorry but I wont be buying this game since what I care most in a Football Sim game are the tactics and the match engine not some social media, tweets and fancy skins...

Benfica in real life plays 442 and it gets destroyed. The 2 mids can't handle the midfield alone- Check last year game against Dortmund, away.

 

And you can see how many top teams plays 442...

 

FM is the best simulator, but its not perfect.

[Alekos]

Just now, apvmoreira said:

Benfica in real life plays 442 and it gets destroyed. The 2 mids can't handle the midfield alone- Check last year game against Dortmund, away.

 

And you can see how many top teams plays 442...

 

FM is the best simulator, but its not perfect.

Ehm..I dont care if I got destroyed..I want my players to play as I ask them to...Check Simeone's Atletico Madrid..

[Dagenham_Dave]

55 minutes ago, MHovel said:

Even before playing the Demo, the impression getting from watching the video (tactic screen), is that we are going to get the same flaws from the engine this year, 

I'm more concerned about the most basic role in footabll, the offside trap which is absolutely bad in FM, THE MOST BASIC ROLE TO FOOTBALL that ruins user experience in the game.

 

We haven't even seen the engine so far (apart from a couple of very short snippets), so  how you can make an assumption like that from the videos we HAVE seen is utterly beyond me. 

FM is turning into one of those games that people will NEVER be satisfied with. Yes, it's a simulation, but despite what Miles says, it'll never truly represent real football (and it's better for it, the majority of your average football match is an error strewn mess), it's a computer game with the core ethos of picking a team, a tactic, and buying/selling players. If more people treated it for what it is, they'd get far more enjoyment out of it. Yes, there's flaws, and the people who constructively identify them help the game grow, but sometimes the expectations are way more unrealistic than the perception of what the game is. 

[Sammy_CJ]

4 hours ago, irish kopite said:

Hard to think of a Trequartista out wide currently playing. Two that I can think of from the past are John Barnes and John Robertson. Both had the freedom to either go down the line or cut inside so not exact examples. Robertson was definitely the playmaker in Forest's European Cup winning teams.

Ozil Playing for Arsenal out wide.... Not sure if all would agree but he comes to my mind.

[Jean0987654321]

24 minutes ago, Sammy_CJ said:

Ozil Playing for Arsenal out wide.... Not sure if all would agree but he comes to my mind.

Hazard maybe, Totti under Zeman, Messi nowadays, maybe even Rooney when he was with us around the end of his stint

[ilkork]

Did they purposefully show us the Advanced Playmaker's locked "Shoot Less Often" PI, so that we become more disappointed?
Come on...

This is me right now (if you care):

Edited October 12, 2017 by ilkork

[Dagenham_Dave]

1 minute ago, ilkork said:

Did they purposefully show us the Advanced Playmaker's locked "Shoot Less Often" PI, so that we become more disappointed?
Come on...

This is me right now (if you care):

Create a vanilla AM (or CM if that area), give all the individual instructions to make him an AP, and include shoot more often. (or just DON'T include Shoot less often)

Job done. 

[ilkork]

Just now, Dagenham_Dave said:

Create a vanilla AM (or CM if that area), give all the individual instructions to make him an AP, and include shoot more often. (or just DON'T include Shoot less often)

Job done. 

But the AM isn't a ball magnet...

[Guest El Payaso]

13 minutes ago, Jean0987654321 said:

Hazard maybe, Totti under Zeman, Messi nowadays, maybe even Rooney when he was with us around the end of his stint

For me Hazard doesn't represent a playmaking type of a player, he is more like the type of player that Robben is. Also in Chelsea he has never been allowed to be a slack in terms of defending even though he really isn't good at it. So, no Hazard for me is not a Trequartista. 

[westy8chimp]

1 minute ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

Create a vanilla AM (or CM if that area), give all the individual instructions to make him an AP, and include shoot more often. (or just DON'T include Shoot less often)

Job done. 

Not at all ... playmakers attract the ball, so by selecting one you are funnelling that play a certain way. An AM with direct passing or more risky passes is nothing like an AP.

[Jean0987654321]

1 minute ago, El Payaso said:

For me Hazard doesn't represent a playmaking type of a player, he is more like the type of player that Robben is. Also in Chelsea he has never been allowed to be a slack in terms of defending even though he really isn't good at it. So, no Hazard for me is not a Trequartista. 

Under Conte, he has

[Dagenham_Dave]

Just now, ilkork said:

But the AM isn't a ball magnet...

Why then, would you want a 'ball magnet' to shoot more often? 

[ilkork]

Just now, Dagenham_Dave said:

Why then, would you want a 'ball magnet' to shoot more often? 

Because he has good Long Shots and is already in an advanced position.

[pheelf]

An interesting video for sure, here is my take on the positives & negatives

+ The ability to specify different set piece routines depending on the area of the pitch is fantastic as well as the addition of direct & indirect freekicks

+ I like that there has been at least an attempt made to streamline and de-clutter the tactics screen

+ I appreciate the effort that has been made to make the whole designing of a tactic more intuitive with clear zones on the pitch marked showing strengths & weaknesses of the tactic

+ The removal of the hideous boxes for shirts

+ Nice to see the addition of new roles especially the inverted winger removing the need to create the role using PIs

+ I'm really liking the integration of analysis into the tactics section as I feel it will allow players to more easily identify areas which opposition teams are exploiting

+ I'm glad to see that the links between players are not solely based on Dynamics (off the field) and actually are influenced by the roles of the two players. I can see that being very helpful when trying to work out what a good strike partnership would be for example

+ The ability to assign players to man mark is good

- I don't like the addition of more talking before the game with these pre-match meetings, seems like more busy work to me and looks like something I won't be interested in and just delegate to my Assistant

- Even though the interface looks to have improved I'm not really enthused with the lack of visual cues as once again we'll have to read through reams of text when it comes to understanding concepts such as Shape & Mentality which leaves the door open for misinterpretation

- No defensive positioning instructions for e.g. Drop deeper

- I still don't understand why in 2017 we don't have an isometric view of the tactic screen

- If we take out the update to set pieces & addition of the highlighted zones of weakness / strength there isn't an awful lot that has changed

- As much as the new roles are great to see it would be helpful if an example was given of real life players who play that role. For e.g. does anybody know a player who plays like a Segundo Volante as I can't think of any

[Fosse]

This is tin hat stuff but does anyone else feel SI don't really care a great deal about tactics? At a guess probably 75% of the user base aren't concerned with tactics as they just like to buy better players than the AI (which isn't hard with their ***** squadbuilding) and bung them in a 4231. I reckon most players don't care about vertical compactness, more accurate and pressing variations amongst other things, really it's a bit niche. It's good business sense for SI to pander to the lowest common denominator when it comes to the tactical side but leaves the more dedicated players frustrated yet we're likely to buy the game anyway.

 

The 'new' features are:

Zones where you might be exposed - this looked pretty off to me anyway in the Watford 5311 as there was an apparent weakness behind the DLP-D when there was coverage behind the other midfielders.

'New' roles - basically a DM-s with get further forward ticked, a CM with roam from position enabled, a wide midfielder with cut inside on and a centre mid with an old PI instruction reintroduced.

The IWB with the option of attack and defend duties is nice but probably should have been done when they were fixed in 17.3 but credit where it's due its an improvement.

Dynamics affecting tactics which I hope is only a slight boost in familiarity or whatever because I can see dynamics being over-egged as a feature unfortunately.

Mark specific position instead of player, not really a feature that.

 

This is an overwhelmingly negative post and I can't remember being so scathing about SI before but I think this might be the first FM game I don't buy immediately if at all. Sega/SI's business model relies on yearly releases but I think they're probably hamstrung by the timescale though, it's difficult to drastically improve a game that needs significant work in whats probably less than 2 year development cycle.

 

However I'm well aware it's still fairly early days yet anythings could change.

[Dagenham_Dave]

1 minute ago, ilkork said:

Because he has good Long Shots and is already in an advanced position.

So, therefore he WILL shoot given the chance. The 'shoots less often' instruction doesn't prevent him from having shots at goal, it means in line with the role, if there's a more sensible pass on, that'll be his first instinct -- ie, a 'playmaker'. 

[wazza]

Looking forward to this along with the other features 

Has anyone noticed on the video on the analysis section it shows regained possession and lost possession and also the location in the middle third section in both positive and negative traits - how can this be as you cannot regain and lose possession in the same pitch area. It has to be one or the other or would you read this as the players lost possession but then won it back in that section of the pitch or that it is a glitch that needs fixing for release of the beta in that it is read as that they lost / won possession overall as a team cannot have a trait of winning and losing possession. 

 

I would also hope on the squares where you are vunerable it would tell you what the weaknesses are 

Edited October 12, 2017 by wazza

[Guest El Payaso]

9 minutes ago, Jean0987654321 said:

Under Conte, he has

Haven't paid too much attention to that but I doubt:

http://metro.co.uk/2017/09/26/eden-hazard-admits-he-hates-pointless-tracking-back-under-antonio-conte-6956153/

[ilkork]

Just now, Dagenham_Dave said:

So, therefore he WILL shoot given the chance. The 'shoots less often' instruction doesn't prevent him from having shots at goal, it means in line with the role, if there's a more sensible pass on, that'll be his first instinct -- ie, a 'playmaker'. 

What if I want him to Shoot More Often plus all the other things an AP does? Why does SI limit us? What's the reasoning behind this limit?
Leave it blank and let us decide what we want to do with our AP!

[westy8chimp]

2 minutes ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

So, therefore he WILL shoot given the chance. The 'shoots less often' instruction doesn't prevent him from having shots at goal, it means in line with the role, if there's a more sensible pass on, that'll be his first instinct -- ie, a 'playmaker'. 

Pogba is Utds playmaker.. last year had most shots for them. Coutinho is Liverpools playmaker and takes a lot of long shots.

Playmaker doesn't just mean passing - it is the player responsible for your attacking momentum... with good decisions I would want him to choose between shot or pass. Not to be told to shoot less (or more) often.

[ilkork]

Just now, westy8chimp said:

Pogba is Utds playmaker.. last year had most shots for them. Coutinho is Liverpools playmaker and takes a lot of long shots.

Playmaker doesn't just mean passing - it is the player responsible for your attacking momentum... with good decisions I would want him to choose between shot or pass. Not to be told to shoot less (or more) often.

Exactly!
Man, that's why they hate us in the OTF. We share similar views .

[herne79]

1 minute ago, ilkork said:

What if I want him to Shoot More Often plus all the other things an AP does? Why does SI limit us? What's the reasoning behind this limit?
Leave it blank and let us decide what we want to do with our AP!

 

1 hour ago, Barside said:

More is great as it gives the AI managers more tool to create realistic & challenging tactical approaches, the last thing I ever want to see are fewer roles that have more customisation . At least not until the AI is capable of creating its own custom roles but very few people will really want to see that as that's when FM really because a test of tactical acumen.

Is your answer as to why SI "limits" us.

Re. your AP question, you could also try a different playmaker role at AMC where shoot less often is not hardcoded.

[Jean0987654321]

9 minutes ago, El Payaso said:

Haven't paid too much attention to that but I doubt:

http://metro.co.uk/2017/09/26/eden-hazard-admits-he-hates-pointless-tracking-back-under-antonio-conte-6956153/

I watched Chelsea all year and last year. Hazard will put a tackle in sometimes but he has the shield (two ball-winners, 3 CBs) behind him so hes been given a free role

Edited October 12, 2017 by Jean0987654321

[Bunkerossian]

Will the display of the weaknesses and strengths of a tactic also cover offensive parameters?

[Guest El Payaso]

3 minutes ago, Jean0987654321 said:

I watched Chelsea all year and last year. Hazard will put a tackle in sometimes but he has the shield (two ball-winners, 3 CBs) behind him so hes been given a free role

I think he wouldn't talk about tracking back if this was the case. The use of wing backs has in attack allowed him a free role but he still has to do tracking back when defending. This though is off-topic so I will stop here. 

[ilkork]

11 minutes ago, herne79 said:

Is your answer as to why SI "limits" us.

Re. your AP question, you could also try a different playmaker role at AMC where shoot less often is not hardcoded.

Ok, let me choose Enganche:
-Close Down Much Less? Why?
-Not being able to add Move Into Channels? Why?
-Not being able to add Hold Up Ball? Why?

Ok, let me choose Trequartista:
-Ease Off Tackles? Why?
-Fewer Risky Passes? Why?
-Roam From Position? No, I just want him to Move Into Channels.


You see Herne? All these make no sense to me and leave me dissatisfied.

Edited October 12, 2017 by ilkork

[Guest El Payaso]

7 minutes ago, ilkork said:

Ok, let me choose Enganche:
-Close Down Much Less? Why?
-Not being able to add Move Into Channels? Why?
-Not being able to add Hold Up Ball? Why?

Ok, let me choose Trequartista:
-Ease Off Tackles? Why?
-Fewer Risky Passes? Why?
-Roam From Position? No, I just want him to Move Into Channels.


You see Herne? All these make no sense to me and leave me dissatisfied.

Because these instructions are the instructions that make the role as it is like for example closing down much more for a BWM? For me both Enganche and Trequartista are highly specialized roles and it's only good that these type of roles cannot be freely modified. You have plenty of other options for roles is you don't either these sitting well to your system or if you don't have the right type of player to fill these roles. 

A Trequartista is not a Trequartista anymore if you can make him press high up the pitch or a ball winning midfielder is not anymore a ball winning midfielder if you can make him stand off and ease off tackles.

[ilkork]

6 minutes ago, El Payaso said:

Because these instructions are parts that make the role like for example closing down much more for a BWM?

No ****, really? I didn't know that SI decides what's football. Let's give the "Shoot Less Often" PI to players like Pogba, Coutinho, Ronaldinho, Zidane, Rivaldo. Because SI says so.

Edited October 12, 2017 by ilkork

[Guest El Payaso]

1 minute ago, ilkork said:

No ****, really? I didn't know that SI decides what's football. Let's give "Shoot Less Often" to players like Pogba, Coutinho, Ronaldinho, Zidane, Rivaldo. Because SI says so.

Use a different role then: like for example just a plain centre midfielder and freely modify it yourself.