Match Engine Update 13.2.1 - ME 1325 Constructive feedback here please

[chelseafanatic]

My 2 cents...

i played as chelsea, a formation 4-2-3-1. My right winger which was set as normal used to receive many through balls from midfielders as he stayed wide enough, to run into space. Now all he does is try to dribble by cutting inside and shoots with the outside of his right foot.

I found that the shots are horrible, and the speed of the players is really slow.

Like others mentioned, there is no creativity from midfielders, as they attempt no through balls.

For me the new patch seems much worst than the latter one

Thanks

[mixmkz]

I would like some clarification on header accuracy further tuned?

My header scoring rate is about 1/30 if not 1/40. I have some of the tallest and best headers in game and the most common commentary I see is "OH and it just whiskered over the bar".

[Chris2509]

Played with Arsenal against Norwich...didn't notice one single through ball in the whole game.

Way too many long shots, although all players set to rare. Out of 21 shots, 14 were long shots. Norwich had 18 shots and 9 long shots.

Fullbacks seem to be unable to prevent any crosses from the AI's wingers.

[Tubey84]

I'd like to just thank SI for the attempted fix - very unexpected given how close to the holidays it was. Whether it fixes the issues or not, it's really appreciated so cheers guys.

Not sucking up, just saying it as I sees it

[CarlJohnson]

Thank you to SI for the fix the match engine doesnt seem that bad apart from the ammount of long shots the computer takes and overall shots in total the computer teams take apart from that and the full back closing down bug and the fact that manchester united in my observation is way overpowered might be due to the bugs but they seem to win all there games 7 or 8 to 0

[Colorado]

first of all, i want to deeply thank the team that stayed working through the holidays to give us this patch.

but, i'm sorry, this just doesn't cut it. i experience all the problems the users are reporting here, most annoying ones are the lack of "creativity" in my midfield, my useless full backs and AI's super dribblers. i hosted chelsea with my newly promoted nott forest and my GK was MoM with 9.3 stopping all those maradona/owen runs from hazard and ben arfa from their own half! i only lost 2-1. i play a very simple 442, inspired by wwfan's thread "keep it simple", and the tactic did well on every patch so far. since yesterday, i dropped from 6th to 11th with 1 win in 7 games (6 defeats) and my team plays horribly, it's like day and night after the patch and i didn't change a thing.

we, players, shouldn't have to spend THIS MUCH time in the forums looking for advice / answers. i seem to spend more time here than actually playing. this wasn't the case in CM3, CM4, etc., and those games weren't that easy as some people want you to believe. but they were finished products that were patched rarely! and that's a key point SI, we are costumers, not beta testers! and there's no arguing about that, if you want our money you must sell us a finished game. maybe i'm being harsh as we're talking about "only" the ME but i think you get the point, it's a huge part of the game.

funny thing too was, yesterday i had my family over for xmas eve and my nephew brought his laptop to play FM 12! i didn't play last years version as i was sent abroad by my company to work on some demanding things so had no time for games. i was amazed at that ME! it looked smooth, solid, real and yet simple! my nephew is one of those crazy () players that watch the full match (i only watch extended) and it was no trouble at all for me to just sit there and watch those 22 players play football for a long time! it didn't seem broken, why did you try to "fix" it?

again, my deepest thanks for the timing of this patch and to the people who stayed working during the holidays. but you have to step it up SI!

merry xmas everyone!

Well said. The second paragraph sums it up for me.

[glosoli]

Hi,

I've just registered to post on this forum. Since the latest patch, opposition players tend to pass the ball to the goalkeeper too often and I'm scoring a lot of goals by intercepting those passes. Most of the teams are making that mistake no matter what their reputation is. I've only conceded two goals like that in my half season after the patch but scoring bug-like easy goals are making the game less fun.

[Leon_fogo]

Hi friends, I realize that the game still continues with few best moment, the bids called keys. In previous fms, this option (throws keys) were larger, I believe this is correct, the current fm they just appear, it is almost always goal, I think it wrong and unrealistic, had to change that! I keep realizing that the game has many junctions believe gotta improve it, let the game flow more dynamically both by the center, as the tips on passes thrown crawling and worked with the ball of the foot and set pieces mainly because the modern game works very dial and set pieces!

I think dribbling is also very importance for the 3d mode, I think it had to be implemented in the most played game of effect, such as dribbling down the legs, short dribble, throw the ball to one side and grab the other, pedal, and small touches quality (as does cristiano ronaldo for example) .

Finally what annoys me most and dislike the way the 3d is defas the goalkeepers had to improve a lot more, giving more quality to this movement, according to reality

[trueblue]

Nope sorry ,, respect all the hard work that's gone in but agree with mexamoxa,, if it aint broke don't fix it. There was very little wrong (compared to this years) with the ME in FM12. Had real hopes that this patch was going to correct the blunder that was the previous one,,, afterall the 2nd patch (the one before it if Im keeping count),, was fairly decent and at least enjoyable to play

Now we have

1. Incompetent midfield movement,, they seem to pass square and back more than go forward most of the time,, even when chasing a losing game.

2. Virtually NO Through balls ,, even when an obvious one is on

3 Under powered passing resulting in possession being easily conceded

4. Under powered shots when accurate,, and way over or wide when powered. How many times do we have to watch someone dribble for ever then his shot is either akin to a pass back to the keeper or hits the corner flag or gets launched into orbit,, all the more frustrating when he has likely ignored about 3 or 4 good passing opportunities as well .

5. The dribble,, already covered it but its a fault in its own right,, no matter what strategy you pick or try changing to it just keeps happening and if your defending it there is not much you can do,, and if its your player like I said he will most likely go nowhere and shoot way off anyway.

6. Too many shots from distance,,, have actually seen a player get put through on a one against one with the keeper and with the defenders way behind him ,, and yet he still chose to shoot from outside the box when he could have run in and had a much higher chance of scoring at close range.,, really ?? Is there any point shouting to work it into the box cos they dont seem to listen at all.

I dont mean to sound like Im ranting but as a player of the game (obsessive at times) for years there is obviously something seriously up with this years version. The fact that we have had so many patches before the usual Jan transfers one shows something aint been right.

I will keep playing my current save until the end of the current season but then Im finished,, In the meantime I will add any other constructive observations I can ,, I dont think its been coincidence that I was toe for toe with Celtic until the patch then BOOM,, 4 losses out of 5 straight games and a 12 point gap,, made a few tweaks and was just starting to get some consistency and BOOM another patch and again I have lost another 3 or 4 games that's basically killed my save.

That is not a main concern tho , its only a game in the end,, but it has put me off starting another save as well,, in all the years I have bought the game loyally on release day,, I have never thought I would ever reconsider ,, but Im even considering going back to FM12 now until they get this playable again,, and I have never done that before.

I really hope something is sorted soon,, love the game to much to put it down forever and at least I guess with all these patches SI must know there is issues and are at least trying to get it right again.

[Luke23]

Maybe you could have a go at fixing the fact that no matter what I do I cannot stop my attacking midfielders from blasting shots over the bar from yards out, you turn long shots down to rarely it doesn't help. You turn creative freedom down to help but then your team just seems to stop creating chances, so you turn it back up a bit but lo and behold your midfielders keep blasting the ball over the bar. Even though the long shots is turned down to rarely.

Also you use the shout to work the ball into the box but then your players don't shoot at all, there has to be some kind of consistency I try to play a possession tactic but I can't seem to find any penetration due to the above.

Until a few days ago when you patched the game I enjoyed it but since you patched it I reckon my win % is about 30% I try to be reactive I try to tweak my tactics but it doesn't seem to work because you have completely borked things like long shots and wingers who can take on every defender I have.

[Luke23]

Oh and while I am at it, why has Liverpool's reputation suddenly increased to worldwide and you are expected to challenge for the title in the first season? Makes no sense whatsoever.

[Tubey84]

Urgh... Just tried a few games... It's not even resembling real football anymore. Even the ball dynamics are off; on more than a few occasions I've seen the ball actually gains pace mid flight. Weird.

I'm seeing all the issues above too. Long range shots for no reason, no incisive passing (even when the obvious pass is on), stupid defenders closing down en masse, players passing the ball to the opposition seemingly at random. In fact, the only goals that occur are two yard tap ins from wide positions.

Comfortably the worst issue for this build is heading. The amount of sitters missed from as close as a yard out is mind-boggling.

Here's the latest:

Ball is sent in to the back post, Goodstein is unmarked, correct body shape, just has to nod it in.

He leaps into the air, still unmarked, not much pace on the ball, two yards out...

... and he powers the header about five yards wide with authority.

The problem is how often that occurs - once or twice every game.

Other than that, I agree with everything Trueblue has listed above; I'm seeing them all. It isn't a tactical issue. All I can see that has occurred with the hotfix is that dribbling is slightly slower.

Naturally, I could play for longer and be more definitive on the problems, but I actually can't bring myself to do it. The current build is the worst I've seen from a Football Manager for a long, long time, and that's coming from a long time player who expects the game to be unfinished until February. The problem here is that it's actually completely unplayable, which normally isn't the case in December.

[trueblue]

It shouldnt make that much difference what you tweak,,, they say the key is to keep it simple,, thats what I always do and that aint working now so what should I do ,,the opposite??,, then they will say "Its your tactics",, I refuse to believe everything can be going ok then just change all of a sudden.

The only other thing I can think is perhaps the patches haven't been as save compatible as they first thought. Perhaps a new save with players from scratch and spending the time pre-match training them in att movement etc ,, but as my save was Rangers all the way from the 3rd Div back up the lgs I just dont have the energy to go back to the beginning again on a hope.

Im going to watch this space after I get to the end of a now miserable and forgettable season,,, might finish 2nd,,,,, if Im lucky

And I think I will also be watching this space on FM 14 release day instead of rushing to the shop

[MacZidane]

... and he powers the header about five yards wide with authority.

You should post a video of that in the bugs forum, because if that's panned out exactly like you say, that alone is a major error.

Simple physics alone will tell you the player in that position, and receiving a cross from that side with that trajectory would only be able to 'power' a header either straight at goal, or past the other post (or at least the other direction). Especially as we see where the ball is after the header. It's almost the exact same line of the cross. The only way that could happen in real life is if the striker misses the ball or it skims off the top of his head.

Bottom line is, it's either a major bug (one that I've not seen, or heard reported before), or your description of events is somewhat 'misleading'.

Now, what's it to be?

[wwfan]

Just thought I'd post this quote from a book I am reading about Ron Greenwood, who for those of you too young enough to remember was manager of West Ham then England in the days where football was more about style and finesse rather than blood and sweat. I just had to chuckle reading it and thinking about how "shouts" seem to be the be all and end all in FM these days. Ok it's a different era but I still think it applies today in modern football management.

Trevor Brooking said of Ron Greenwood : "He was that good, so highly respected by all of his contemporaries and the players who worked under him. Ron's coaching style wasn't dictatorial - he didn't order you about or tell you to do things. Instead, he asked questions of you and wanted you to take responsibility on the field, so that you knew how to handle situations yourself rather than having to look over to the bench for guidance."

So some players aren't robots at all !!! ;-)

You do realise that this type of management philosophy can be recreated using Very Fluid with generic roles?

[Al_Pacino]

Just had my GK score 2 own goals in a [thankfully friendly] match. Never seen that before in any football game, real or computer.

[MacZidane]

I'm seeing all the issues above too. Long range shots for no reason, no incisive passing (even when the obvious pass is on), stupid defenders closing down en masse, players passing the ball to the opposition seemingly at random. In fact, the only goals that occur are two yard tap ins from wide positions.

A recent game away to Rotherham.

A terrific free kick...

[video=youtube;TzXysrAFImc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzXysrAFImc

An incisive through ball, with a quality finish...

[video=youtube;ApfKoNpNFqg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApfKoNpNFqg

Another ball through the middle, good tracking back by the defenders (which you only saw rarely on first release), but the striker does well to hold them off, and it's a tidy finish.

[video=youtube;locID1xWQE0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=locID1xWQE0

And finally, from the next game, a close range header, beautifully placed into the net from a few yards out. The opposition (Yeovil) fullbacks were poor here in allowing Reid to run as far as he did, but this was his only real meaningful run in the match, as the defence shackled him the rest of the game.

[video=youtube;Qim2y-gDn3A]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qim2y-gDn3A

The problem here is that it's actually completely unplayable, which normally isn't the case in December.

Which is nonsense. You might be struggling with it, but it's hardly unplayable, as the goals posted in this post have shown.

And I'm not even doing that well with Bradford in this save, in fact, it's been a hugely frustrating season. Not because of a 'broken' ME, or an 'unplayable' game, but more that my players are wildly inconsistent, general code for me being rubbish at the game.

[Tubey84]

Bottom line is, it's either a major bug (one that I've not seen, or heard reported before), or your description of events is somewhat 'misleading'.

Now, what's it to be?

The trajectory is changed - the header is actually powered in another direction with more pace and with more elevation. So yes, it's a bug.

[BiggusD]

Yes players are too trigger-happy when they shouldn't be, and midfielders does not make the choice to try a through-ball into space when they should. Also, the choice to run with the ball is often not taken when it should be and too often taken when it shouldn't be. Defenders are too eager to close down players that they shouldn't be closing down, and too often stand off players that they should close down. Players are too eager to tackle when they shouldn't be and the blocking of crosses does not seem to be a feature in the game (it's a tackle). Collision Detection is a nice feature, but I think Pass Interception Detection would be nicer; players are too often choosing a pass option that would require another player to jump out of the way of the ball in order to reach its intended target.

Players that find themselves inside the 5-meter box to either side of the goal (roughly a 30 degree angle from each post, extended towards the 16-meter box line) does not know that the angle is too sharp to shoot, dribble or head at goal himself. We have all seen dribbling raids ending literally in the goal post and this is not gone from 13.2.1, but I have also seen plenty of shots and even worse - headers from a cross which the striker had to run away from the goal to reach since it went over and in front of him; the header went very far from the goal of course since it's physically impossible to get a header at goal from that angle even if the cross came from the other side towards him. He shouldn't even try such a thing. I think SI could simply program the players to -never- try a finish from such a tight angle and then just live with the lack of exceptions.

Just now I saw a full back 10 meters inside his own half on the flank intercept a long pass from the other flank. It went over him, but he sped towards the sideline, jumped high in the air and headed the ball with great precision and power 180 degrees back to his own keeper. Maybe he's a kind of a mutant crossbreed with owl genes and a PowerBrow implant? Maybe he should try the FootballBrain implant next, since he could just have let it go to a throw-in...

Joking aside, there is much work still to be done with this ME. The balance is not right.

[Tubey84]

Which is nonsense. You might be struggling with it, but it's hardly unplayable, as the goals posted in this post have shown.

And I'm not even doing that well with Bradford in this save, in fact, it's been a hugely frustrating season. Not because of a 'broken' ME, or an 'unplayable' game, but more that my players are wildly inconsistent, general code for me being rubbish at the game.

Did I say I was struggling with it? I was actually winning, because as I mentioned in my first post I've already developed a system of working the ball wide, drilling crosses and having a poacher score from two yards. In short, I'm exploiting the ME. Again.

My problem is that it's not resembling real football and I'm not winning because of logical, tactical decisions. Therefore, for me, it's unplayable, as even the ball physics are wrong. When I say "unplayable", I don't mean I'm having a hissy fit because I'm losing; I'm saying it's not a reasonable football simulation.

By the by, the example I posted above with the header was against me; it was the opposition who missed.

[scott MUFC]

it isn't my poacher doing the scoring, its my DLF

i found turning tactial freedom down helps a lot in terms of creating a chance with a through ball or a cross, rather then players running about shooting from range.

[MacZidane]

The trajectory is changed - the header is actually powered in another direction with more pace and with more elevation. So yes, it's a bug.

It's almost physically impossible to power a header in the same direction when you're in front of the ball when a cross from the opposite side comes in. Can you post the video?

[stevereay]

pass it, Pass It, PASS It, PASS IT, PASS IT.

[MacZidane]

Did I say I was struggling with it? .

Yes. You called it 'unplayable'. That alone says you're struggling with it. 'It being the game itself. At no point did I say you weren't winning games or having success with the club you manage.

[Sussex Hammer]

Glad to see that the silly chip penalties have been fixed and I love the added bug that made Arsenal miss all four of theirs (1 post and 3 saves) in my FA Cup Semi Final against them!!! ;-)

Seriously, gone back to a very basic set up and all seems fine bar one or two things. Defending seems a lot better, I rarely get a 0-0 against Arsenal with about 5 or 6 shots each in a tight game so that was nice to see and goalkeepers seem to throw out to full backs now rather than long kick all the time which is good.. Still quite a few long shots, some full backs on mazy long dribbles and the odd Sunday Football like hoofed ball from full backs but the biggest issue I have is wingers are really underperforming in this patch. Previous patch they were crossing and cutting in quite well maybe too well so that might be the reason. Yet again though it has taken a few matches and then the patch seems to settle down rather than being immediate. Not quite there but it's playing ok.

[milnerpoint]

pass it, Pass It, PASS It, PASS IT, PASS IT.

Is that really a bug/issues or just a poor decision? You could say its an ME bug, but you could also its nothing more than just a poor decision by the player. We need to be careful and not see every mistake as a bug, or every poor pass as a bug, or every weak save as a bug.

[Tubey84]

It's almost physically impossible to power a header in the same direction when you're in front of the ball when a cross from the opposite side comes in. Can you post the video?

I know, that's why I'm reporting it as a bug!!!

How do you upload an individual highlight, I've only uploaded goals before?

Anyhoos, another bug spotted. See this picture I uploaded before:

That's a player called Goodstein and that was taken before, then I closed the game.

I've just restarted the game to upload the highlight, and for some reason the players involved have completely changed.

As in, the goalscorer and the guy who crosses the ball too! (Compean has morphed to Kroenke).

As you can see, no tampering, all the other players in place. The team involved is the San Jose Earthquakes. Obviously it's an issue with the regens as I don't have the US leagues loaded.

[Bobby_Zamora]

Yes. You called it 'unplayable'. That alone says you're struggling with it. 'It being the game itself. At no point did I say you weren't winning games or having success with the club you manage.

I'm having no problems winning and having success. However, I find the football display generated by the engine is quite poor compared to the previous installment.

But hey, we have to expect that with new engines. And I hope SI pushes more unexpected patches this time.

[Tubey84]

Yes. You called it 'unplayable'. That alone says you're struggling with it. 'It being the game itself. At no point did I say you weren't winning games or having success with the club you manage.

I'm struggling to see the game as a tactical entity, because it's not. At the moment, I'm simply adopting tactics that work regardless of who the opposition are, rather than adapt to strengths or weaknesses or use shouts etc.

Which is what I thought the new ME was supposed to eradicate.

I'm not a forum troll, I've wrote tactical guides on here as recently as last month in the tactics forum and I have done for years, but I'm not going to disregard glaringly obvious ME errors, especially in a thread called asking to post constructive feedback about the ME! I'd usually be amongst the first to say "look, it's your tactics, you need to go back to basics, learn how different positional roles work, look at your personnel in key positions" etc. but I can't, because the ME is such that it is overriding tactical decision-making to a gamebreaking extent.

I'm very good at this game, but I don't currently recognise it as football management. It's more "find the closest thing to a Diablo tactic you can to negate the ME flaws and then press Continue repeatedly".

The ME before 13.2 was notably better than as it stands; it had flaws but not gamebreaking issues. As I've said above, I've thanked SI for the attempted fix, I appreciate the work, I never expected a full FM gaming experience before March anyway (just from experience of the franchise I know how it works!!!) but if I see problems I'll report 'em.

[DrIgz]

MacZidane, since you're not having trouble getting through balls to your strikers, what do you think tactically allows that? Because I can't get through balls to save my own life...

EDIT: where's he gone...?

[chelseafanatic]

And why have the passes become soooo sloww?? I hold my breath everytime one of my player passes until it reaches its target

[stevereay]

Is that really a bug/issues or just a poor decision? You could say its an ME bug, but you could also its nothing more than just a poor decision by the player. We need to be careful and not see every mistake as a bug, or every poor pass as a bug, or every weak save as a bug.

Certainly could be a poor decision but that is just a long line of golden opportunities for a pass/through ball that has not been made by a player with all the right stats who would have played it through in 13.1. You could say next time he's in that position he may have passed. But when you don't see any through balls in games then you start to think its not tactics/poor position.

As you can see by the score I was winning and did win the game. My results haven't been to bad. I have also been very constructive in providing feedback for the match engine. But that was the the last for me for now. I don't believe the engine is unplayable and I'll probably now get vilified for saying this. but I'm back on FM12 until the next patch. Then I'll be back to hopefully a great match engine or helping provide info for the next patch.

[Ranger7168]

More or less sitting and watching all the teams...well just win over me 4-5-11 after 20 matches as arsenal...some matches i have like 32-16 against like 7-4 opp, and i loose 2-1. No through balls, at all, god knows why...told them to...long shots...well...never ever going in, often ends in throw ins, free kicks...a joke. And beware, if you should dear too go counterattacking, you will be countered upon:). I like a Challenge, this is ridicolus. Sometimes, just sometimes, it would be Nice to see some progression in the team...I did go sunday footballer, can really have that much to say??. Team talks...rubbish still.

[Santosh]

And why have the passes become soooo sloww?? I hold my breath everytime one of my player passes until it reaches its target

exactly definitely a new thing in fm 13. saw that in my game against liverpool.

[smdw2008]

I think there is no different between 13.2 and 13.2.1. That's my opinion...

[taytothief]

I think there is no different between 13.2 and 13.2.1. That's my opinion...

You, sir, are a crazyman

[Ranger7168]

I think there is a major difference, before you were not playing the Spanish national side almost every freaking time. And if you dont you will come up against a world class keeper. Throw us a bone here SI, watching the other side outplay us time after time is booooring. Since this crap have been released i have been sacked in 6 out off 8 games. Trying a lot of tatics. No, i wont go classic, i will just.. go.. if this dosent improve, and yes its a bug, if not you finally managed to destroy Your game.. And FOR GODS SAKE, if one out off 100 long shots is goin in, tune it.

[smdw2008]

You, sir, are a crazyman

hahahahahaha........ I do crazy

[Ranger7168]

My POACHER, just meet the ball 10 meters into my half, and played it back to the keeper, keeper then played the ball to my fullback who played it to POACHER again, and yes...back to keeper. Strange thing to do when on OT and 2-3 Down....argh

[marcftm]

Terrific eh?

[scottoc]

Just a quick one, I'm sure it's been brought up before. Seems like the ball is bouncing out of the net after goals with some regularity this patch - something to be fixed I suppose but not the highest of priorities.

And as other's have said, a lot of shots this patch. 35-40 per match seems to be the norm which is far too many. And also seeing right wingers going on long runs through the middle of the pitch with the ball and scoring with a fair bit of regularity also.

[davidbowie]

I've given up on FM 13.

Tactics: Everyone set to not take long shots. No shouts that would make this happen, and the only shouts I would use are ones that STOP more long shots AND since this was a lower league save the creativity was extremely low.

So what happens in the post-match of the first game? I get told our team took too many long shots.

Second game.

I quit and delete FM off my hard drive when my DM takes a 35 yard long shot and not for the first time.

That's your straw to break the camels back, the complete inability of SI to program a tactics and match engine where my players actually listen to what I tell them for this most basic of tactical decisions, by making players not take long shots.

[eric1000]

I agree with what most people have noted here but the single main problem for me has existed since the demo was released and still hasn't been fixed, which is the ball acting as if it's on ice. In fact I have seen ice hockey games where the puck slows down quicker than the ball on FM2013. Secondly, goalkeepers appear to develop an allergy to the ball and try to boot it away instead of just picking the thing up.

[michaelthestrange]

I am actually rather pleased with the latest patch, especially as SI brought it to us during Christmas.

There are still some issues like to many potent dribbling, slightly too many long shots and shots overall and - like someone said - a lack of creativity (through balls) from central midfielders. I feel the latter also causes strikers to mostly score from crosses. There still seem to be slightly too many high scoring games as well.

But overall I get realistic results and I certainly cannot see any game-breaking bugs whatsoever. I actually enjoy watching the football my team plays again since 13.2.1.

[Graham206]

I... The first priority for ME development should be realism. The ME shouldn't be tweaked one way or the other to make it "unnaturally" easier or more difficult for the player.

... A lot of the complaints I see on here read exactly like the comments you will see on a club forum after a team loses in real life, and quite a few complaints (e.g., "players don't tackle") are contradicted by ME stats that show the opposite to be true (e.g., players tackle far too often).

...

So far, I've run six seasons with 5 leagues on full detail and only two clubs (Dortmund and Real Madrid) have ever scored more than 7 goals in a match.

In this save's current Premier League season (currently at November 25th), there have been 7 matches where more than 5 goals total were scored. By comparison, in the actual current Premier League season, there were already 9 matches prior to November 26th where more than 5 goals were scored.

I'd completely agree with the gist of that. What I want from the game is statistics which are reasonably close to real life football, and I'm not terribly interested in a video of players making an awful mistake because awful mistakes happen in real life too.

It does look to me as if the latest patch has over-compensated: from too few shots per game we've moved to too many.

I'm just coming toward the end of a season (which has covered three versions of the game) and unlike your holiday test I feel that there are slightly too many high-scoring games, 7-3, 6-2 and the like, but when I've finished the season I'll count up and see how they compare to real life in the EPL and the other major leagues I'm running in full detail.

EDIT: I've just looked at the records for the major European leagues I've been running on full detail. For 1&2/3 seasons for Germany the biggest wins are 5-0 and 4-0, highest scores 4-3 and 4-2, France H.S 4-4 and 3-3 biggest wins 7-0 and 5-1, Italy H.S. 5-4 & 4-3, biggest wins 6-0 twice, Spain highest scores a paltry 4-2 both seasons and 5-0 both seasons and England 7-3 & 5-4 high scores (player involved both times) and 7-1 and 6-0 biggest wins. So not as high as real life!

[Welshace]

I'm struggling to see the game as a tactical entity, because it's not. At the moment, I'm simply adopting tactics that work regardless of who the opposition are, rather than adapt to strengths or weaknesses or use shouts etc.

Which is what I thought the new ME was supposed to eradicate.

I'm not a forum troll, I've wrote tactical guides on here as recently as last month in the tactics forum and I have done for years, but I'm not going to disregard glaringly obvious ME errors, especially in a thread called asking to post constructive feedback about the ME! I'd usually be amongst the first to say "look, it's your tactics, you need to go back to basics, learn how different positional roles work, look at your personnel in key positions" etc. but I can't, because the ME is such that it is overriding tactical decision-making to a gamebreaking extent.

I'm very good at this game, but I don't currently recognise it as football management. It's more "find the closest thing to a Diablo tactic you can to negate the ME flaws and then press Continue repeatedly".

The ME before 13.2 was notably better than as it stands; it had flaws but not gamebreaking issues. As I've said above, I've thanked SI for the attempted fix, I appreciate the work, I never expected a full FM gaming experience before March anyway (just from experience of the franchise I know how it works!!!) but if I see problems I'll report 'em.

This isn't where you report bugs.... nothing you say here will get looked at as a bug/error...

Please do so in the correct place (bug reporting forum section)

[blackdog]

As what you might call a more casual player I'm getting a bit fed up of it all.

I got hooked on FM on the 2010 edition and feel the game got better with '11 and '12. I'm no tactical genius and would just

pick a couple of pre-set tactics, maybe 442 and 451. Tweak them a little with marking and passing etc, and pick the best players for the job'

then buy a few better players in the weaker positions. Come match days I'd use shouts and change mentality depending on how the match

was going. It worked for me and I'd have quite a bit of success (breaking up the Scottish Duopoly and getting Leeds promoted), and it was fun and enjoyable.

As I mentioned, i'm no tactics genius and now, even though I have persevered from release day with 13 I'm just not getting anywhere. I appreciate

the threads in the tactics forum but as has been mentioned elsewhere, I dont really want to be told to play this way or that way.

Many people have mentioned the ME flaws such as 4 defenders chasing 1 player and many long shots which if they are bugs or not, spoils the immersion.

So to sum up, as a gamer, not a tactics genius, it really does seem too much like hard work.

Really hope SI get it together though as from FM 10 through to 12 its been the best game going.

Sorry if this isnt in depth and technical but its just my thoughts as a gamer and I wonder how many more are feeling like me and not really knowing how to

(or bothering to) post their thoughts.

[haunted1234]

sometimes i dont get why the variance in this game is so freaking high??

here some examples of my fixture.. if the media prediction is anywhere near correct...

i win games that iam not dominating, get crushed when iam dominating, losing 0:8 vs 17th media prediction place... just to win the next game vs the 1st in media prediction 4:2.. just to lose again

sometimes i feel like this game rolls dice on the results

[MacZidane]

MacZidane, since you're not having trouble getting through balls to your strikers, what do you think tactically allows that? Because I can't get through balls to save my own life...

EDIT: where's he gone...?

I don't do anything special. With that team, I play a basic 4-4-2, with a DLP and an AP in midfield, although depending on opposition, I'll sometimes change the roles of the centre mids. My AP regularly tries to play through balls to the front men, as he usually has a bit of time to pick a pass. It can be a bit risky, as I'm vulnerable to a counter attack, but I usually do a bit of homework on the opposition first.

There's definitely not as many through balls played as the first release of the game, but that's a good thing IMO, means the defenders are becoming more aware. It now means I'm scoring a bigger variety of goals, and makes the whole match day that bit more realistic - within the confines of it only being animated sprites running about of course.

[wayne'o]

To be fair, i really hate the new ME even with the update, it runs terrible, players look like they are skating on an ice ring and are blind, there is just no way in real football players would do the silly thing's that keep happening over and over. i vote it the worst series for years.. on one positive note, i like some of the up and down variants of freekicks.