Match Engine Update 13.2.1 - ME 1325 Constructive feedback here please

[milnerpoint]

Milnerpoint, brave defender of all things FM.

I'm not defending all things, have a day off. All im saying is the game is perfectly playable, to say otherwise is hyperbole and its tiresome reading it when its not true.

[Veg1ta]

I'm not defending all things, have a day off. All im saying is the game is perfectly playable, to say otherwise is hyperbole and its tiresome reading it when its not true.

i hate being a broken record player but ive notched up over 500 hrs on fm13 and by no means is this patch playable, all the other patches? playable in my book, so either you dont play the game or your smoking something i need to get my hands on.

[Hunter T]

I had a skim through the 'guide' when it was first written, and I remember something along the lines of 'don't touch the sliders'. I stopped reading there. That isn't teaching you how to 'approach' a tactic, that's explicitly telling you not to touch the sliders (ie, basically making your tactic) because the ME clearly favours the default settings. That isn't management simulation.

And I'm not really shooting myself in the foot, as I said on a previous page I'm in the top 5 in the PL with Southampton (first season). In another save I made the playoffs in the Belgian Third Division (first season) but gave up after the game was just overly repetitive and seemingly random with some of the results. So I'm not exactly unsuccessful, It's just not fun to play due to the manner of the wins/draws, and just constantly feeling like the success has nothing to do with my tactical instructions. I miss a million chances (half of which are long shots), the opposition miss a million chances (half of which are long shots), then I score from a counter attack (obviously from a cross, as AMCs and MCs producing a through ball is as rare as rocking horse poo on FM13). Same old story, despite my tactic instructing my players to play nothing like that. I'd actually rather lose seeing the team play my way than see scrappy win after scrappy win watching my team play in a way that I just haven't instructed them to.

I'm not one of those who has suggested they revert back to the FM12 engine, but only because it's obvious that SI wouldn't even consider it. FM12 was a better match engine, even before a single patch came out, because the ME actually reflected the tactic you built. Sure, 12 had it's problems (the 4-2-3-1 for example), but overall, it just was a far superior ME. Supposedly this ME has been in development for two years, so I don't buy all this stuff about a work in progress, especially with some of the most obvious bugs. I accept it should have some bugs, but is 5 patches in the space of 2 months really a sign of a complete, working game?

I got the book 'Football Manager Stole My Life' for Christmas. There's a section in there about one of the editions - CM04 I think it was - becoming infamous after being released six months late and full of bugs. I don't want to be over-dramatic, but I think in years to come the majority will look at FM13 with a similar view.

EDIT>>

This just reinforces my point re the ME not reflecting tactics. Why should we have to reduce creative freedom (which includes many other factors other than long shots) when I have explicitly instructed my players not to take them very often at all? It just doesn't make sense! I'm not having a go at you scott MUFC, and I'm sure that reducing creative freedom does restrict long shots further, but you shouldn't be having to put to creative freedom to the lowest possible to get to that point.

Nailed it, mate.Just nailed it!

[milnerpoint]

i hate being a broken record player but ive notched up over 500 hrs on fm13 and by no means is this patch playable, all the other patches? playable in my book, so either you dont play the game or your smoking something i need to get my hands on.

Your right, i dont play the game at all, never have done.

[fmFutbolManager]

How can you give feedback on a patch your not playing? How can you express your disapointment at something you have yet to come across?

I've not given feedback, have I? I've merely questioned someone that said you do not need to touch your tactics for each ME release. All I've pointed out is that for this ME you need to do something specific for the super dribblers, as SI have asked wwfan to post up to tell people how to specifically deal with this issue. They wouldn't have asked him to do that if a) this wasn't an issue and b) you don't need to change your tactics for each ME. I don't believe you can go through every iteration of the ME and not make a single change. That is all.

And I don't need to try something to know there is something wrong with it. I didn't update my iPhone because of the maps issue. I expressed my disappointment—through not updating—with the new maps and the removal of Google maps without 'coming across' it myself. I'm quite capable of reading feedback on a product, looking at all the evidence, and making up my mind without having to try it for myself.

[treble_yell_:-)]

am sorry but i do not agree that this patch is better than the previous, maybe you where getting hammered everygame or something, but i was enjoying it.

now as i said before its more watching the timer go by than actually watching football being played.

id actually love to see a vote which patch was the best, and id love even more if you could actually choose what patch u wanted to play, so there would be no arguments at all.

13.2.1 is certainly better than 13.2.

I can promise you that if there was a vote between 13.2 and 13.2.1 that you would be part of a tiny group of 1 voting for 13.2.

Maybe you missed the 16 page 13.2 thread ? the one where if anything everyone was over achieving........

The fact that your response is "maybe you just suck" says it all to be honest. You were winning easily in 13.2 due to some gaping holes in the ME. Si fixed that , and your not happy.

[Veg1ta]

13.2.1 is certainly better than 13.2.

I can promise you that if there was a vote between 13.2 and 13.2.1 that you would be part of a tiny group of 1 voting for 13.2.

Maybe you missed the 16 page 13.2 thread ? the one where if anything everyone was over achieving........

The fact that your response is "maybe you just suck" says it all to be honest. You were winning easily in 13.2 due to some gaping holes in the ME. Si fixed that , and your not happy.

i win on any patch or any fm, winning or losing is not the problem, this isnt call of duty with ppl running around with over powered sub machine guns, who cares if everybody is winning and enjoying fm, its not like there hurting anyone in the first place playing against a ai in the privacy of there own home.

[milnerpoint]

I've not given feedback, have I? I've merely questioned someone that said you do not need to touch your tactics for each ME release. All I've pointed out is that for this ME you need to do something specific for the super dribblers, as SI have asked wwfan to post up to tell people how to specifically deal with this issue. They wouldn't have asked him to do that if a) this wasn't an issue and b) you don't need to change your tactics for each ME. I don't believe you can go through every iteration of the ME and not make a single change. That is all.

And I don't need to try something to know there is something wrong with it. I didn't update my iPhone because of the maps issue. I expressed my disappointment—through not updating—with the new maps and the removal of Google maps without 'coming across' it myself. I'm quite capable of reading feedback on a product, looking at all the evidence, and making up my mind without having to try it for myself.

I havent changed my tactics to counter anything in the ME, im still as successful as i was pre-patch. WWFAN's thread was advice on how you could counter an issue you may come across, its not a set rule you have to follow. I've changed two roles since release day (wingers from attack to support), thats it. I dont mark specific players to counter dribbling, i dont follow all of his advice in the 12 step guide, i dont drastically change things game to game. I still play the 4-2-3-1 i set up during the beta, i still use the same settings, and most of the same shouts, ive change one of my sets of shouts.

This whole thing about having to completely change tactics because of patches is crazy, i've never in all my years of playing FM changed my tactics to suit an ME, never had too and never will have too.

[treble_yell_:-)]

i win on any patch or any fm, winning or losing is not the problem, this isnt call of duty with ppl running around with over powered sub machine guns, who cares if everybody is winning and enjoying fm, its not like there hurting anyone in the first place playing against a ai in the privacy of there own home.

Convinced you're trolling now, enjoy your game.

[Dicko99]

How anyone saying the last patch is better than the current one is definately a WUM. The top four were scoring 100+ goals a season and regularly running up cricket scores, add to that the 10+ dribbles a match from the fullbacks.

[TSH]

I'm not defending all things, have a day off. All im saying is the game is perfectly playable, to say otherwise is hyperbole and its tiresome reading it when its not true.

It's perfectly playable for those who don't mind the faults and the generally unrealistic football and player behaviour.

[lunarsea]

Really disappointed with this update. After the slight shambles that 13.2 was in, I was really hoping that the hotfix would resolve some of the major issues and I'd be able to enjoy the game until the next major update. Unfortunately this hasn't happened and I really find the game unplayable - or rather - unenjoyable due to the absurdity and lack of realism of some of the ME issues.

My immediate impressions of this hotfix are:

Rather than actually resolve the problems at hand and make the ME look more like a realistic game of football, it seems as if the major problems have just been "toned down". So wingers still make ridiculous dribbling runs half-way across the pitch, defenders still bunch 3 to 1, fullbacks still cut in & get out of position and cannot follow their marking/closing down instructions, loads of poor long shots are taken when there are better options, etc BUT it just seems to happen less often.

This is obviously an improvement but that doesn't actually FIX the problems, it just makes the worst parts less prominent but hasn't replaced them with better options. And there are still other major problems, such as:

- There do not seem to be hardly any through balls! Strikers seem to be largely useless. They've gone from getting too many through balls in previous updates to hardly getting any/none at all. The amount of service they are getting is hugely unrealistic in that it's far too little. I also find that this can affect Inside Forwards. If you have a player set to Run from Deep often, roam from position etc with the intent to get on the end of a through ball & the through balls aren't being delivered, it completely destroys their potency.

- Players will often make extremely stupid passes. My midfielders and defenders seem to make back-passes more often than not, even when there is a perfectly good forward pass to play. Then, of course, even though my keeper is set to pass short & my shout is play out of defence, he will just boot it upfield. Or, he'll pass to a defender who will then pass it back to him (in spite of there being better passing options) and THEN he will boot it upfield! VERY frustrating. Doesn't always happen, but should not be happening as much when you have instructed your players to work out of defence, and the CB's idea of this is to give it back to the keeper.

- As a result, there are a lot more poor passes being made and unnecessary interceptions. Not realistic ones such as through balls being cut out but short 5-10 yard passes getting cut out by the opposition too often or one of my players passing it into the back of another of my players, irregardless of what my tempo is set. The AI doesn't seem capable of making the correct pass decision, whether it's passing forwards or backwards and often does the wrong one at the wrong time!

- Still way too many long-shots (most of which are wildly inaccurate) and they are often done instead of a much better through ball opportunity or attacking pass.

- Also, I've noticed that my players in the middle of the pitch hardly EVER dribble with the ball. Even when I have them set to Run With Ball Often, even if they have a dribbling stat approaching 20 with the PPM "Runs with ball often", no matter whether they have an attacking or defensive mentality, and no matter how high or low their creative freedom is.

- Defenders still cannot defend properly whether it be making tackles (although this has been improved since last update), marking their player/zone correctly (again improved but still hugely frustrating when your fullback will run half-way across the pitch as he seems to think that his Zonal area!), and crosses are hardly ever cut out or blocked.

- Way too many completed crosses. In this game, it seems like anywhere from 75% - 90% of crosses will be completed and delivered into the box. This is far too high and not realistic at all. The AI does not seem to know how to cut out crosses effectively.

- Players still seem to often shoot with their unfavoured foot when in a position to use their preferred one, but this has been a recurring issue for some time

I had such high hopes for FM13 due to the fact that FM12 was a really great game that needed only moderate changes to improve the ME and make it more realistic.

Being a football management game, I think the Match Engine should be judged on 1) how realistic the matches play out compared to real life football and 2) how much your team will actually follow your tactical instructions when you've gone to the time and trouble of creating a tactic, giving them shouts, and even adjusted individual sliders if you deem it necessary.

My conclusion is that so far FM13 has failed on both fronts, which is really disappointing as it seems to be a step backwards from last year, which I cannot understand.

The AI as a whole seems to be poorly executed. Whether it be deciding what to do defensively in terms of tackles or marking or what to do offensively, as to whether to make a forward pass or through ball or a backwards pass to the keeper, or whether to take a ridiculous long shot 30 yards out when set to rarely if there is the opportunity for a killer ball or even a pass to a free teammate, it seems that the AI is really unable to make the correct decision in this version of the game.

What's worse is that more often than that, the AI's "decision making" will override your own tactical instructions, meaning that not only will your players completely ignore their tactical settings, but then they will also make a very poor decision of their own too.

It completely ruins the fun in my opinion as rather than resembling a realistic game of football, matches play out like a half-realistic game with a load of major issues causing unrealistic gameplay.

[Cleon]

I havent changed my tactics to counter anything in the ME, im still as successful as i was pre-patch. WWFAN's thread was advice on how you could counter an issue you may come across, its not a set rule you have to follow. I've changed two roles since release day (wingers from attack to support), thats it. I dont mark specific players to counter dribbling, i dont follow all of his advice in the 12 step guide, i dont drastically change things game to game. I still play the 4-2-3-1 i set up during the beta, i still use the same settings, and most of the same shouts, ive change one of my sets of shouts.

This whole thing about having to completely change tactics because of patches is crazy, i've never in all my years of playing FM changed my tactics to suit an ME, never had too and never will have too.

I still play the same way too

It's weird though because people are acting like wwfan's advice on dribblers is something new. We've been saying this for years in the tactics forum, if you come up against someone good at dribbling and need your wide players to help track back properly, then specific man marking is the way to go.

I'm still not sure why people feel the need to change tactics every new ME though.

But then again I don't really focus on the ME anymore. I'd rather focus on player development and focus indepth on that side of the game. So I guess the issues people are having aren't happening to me because I'm not over focusing on them and an concentrating on playing a game rather than playing the ME.

[TSH]

I had a skim through the 'guide' when it was first written, and I remember something along the lines of 'don't touch the sliders'. I stopped reading there. That isn't teaching you how to 'approach' a tactic, that's explicitly telling you not to touch the sliders (ie, basically making your tactic) because the ME clearly favours the default settings. That isn't management simulation.

And I'm not really shooting myself in the foot, as I said on a previous page I'm in the top 5 in the PL with Southampton (first season). In another save I made the playoffs in the Belgian Third Division (first season) but gave up after the game was just overly repetitive and seemingly random with some of the results. So I'm not exactly unsuccessful, It's just not fun to play due to the manner of the wins/draws, and just constantly feeling like the success has nothing to do with my tactical instructions. I miss a million chances (half of which are long shots), the opposition miss a million chances (half of which are long shots), then I score from a counter attack (obviously from a cross, as AMCs and MCs producing a through ball is as rare as rocking horse poo on FM13). Same old story, despite my tactic instructing my players to play nothing like that. I'd actually rather lose seeing the team play my way than see scrappy win after scrappy win watching my team play in a way that I just haven't instructed them to.

I'm not one of those who has suggested they revert back to the FM12 engine, but only because it's obvious that SI wouldn't even consider it. FM12 was a better match engine, even before a single patch came out, because the ME actually reflected the tactic you built. Sure, 12 had it's problems (the 4-2-3-1 for example), but overall, it just was a far superior ME. Supposedly this ME has been in development for two years, so I don't buy all this stuff about a work in progress, especially with some of the most obvious bugs. I accept it should have some bugs, but is 5 patches in the space of 2 months really a sign of a complete, working game?

I got the book 'Football Manager Stole My Life' for Christmas. There's a section in there about one of the editions - CM04 I think it was - becoming infamous after being released six months late and full of bugs. I don't want to be over-dramatic, but I think in years to come the majority will look at FM13 with a similar view.

EDIT>>

This just reinforces my point re the ME not reflecting tactics. Why should we have to reduce creative freedom (which includes many other factors other than long shots) when I have explicitly instructed my players not to take them very often at all? It just doesn't make sense! I'm not having a go at you scott MUFC, and I'm sure that reducing creative freedom does restrict long shots further, but you shouldn't be having to put to creative freedom to the lowest possible to get to that point.

Amazing post, well done.

[fmFutbolManager]

I havent changed my tactics to counter anything in the ME, im still as successful as i was pre-patch. WWFAN's thread was advice on how you could counter an issue you may come across, its not a set rule you have to follow. I've changed two roles since release day (wingers from attack to support), thats it. I dont mark specific players to counter dribbling, i dont follow all of his advice in the 12 step guide, i dont drastically change things game to game. I still play the 4-2-3-1 i set up during the beta, i still use the same settings, and most of the same shouts, ive change one of my sets of shouts.

This whole thing about having to completely change tactics because of patches is crazy, i've never in all my years of playing FM changed my tactics to suit an ME, never had too and never will have too.

I didn't say completely change. I said change. When long shots occur too often we have to turn these down. When people dribble too often we have to adjust opposition instructions. When defenders concede too many own goals we have to tone down this and do that. There have been problems that require a specific action to counter them. You could probably play on anyway, but if you want to counter them, you have to adjust. Unless by default you're already standing off players, have the lowest creativity and no-one on long shots.

Anyway. Although these problems are there, and SI have confirmed they're issues, they will affect players differently. We're just clogging up this thread with our opinions now, which isn't helping anyone. I'm done. If you don't have to change, good for you.

[Keyzer Soze]

I had a skim through the 'guide' when it was first written, and I remember something along the lines of 'don't touch the sliders'. I stopped reading there. That isn't teaching you how to 'approach' a tactic, that's explicitly telling you not to touch the sliders (ie, basically making your tactic) because the ME clearly favours the default settings. That isn't management simulation.

Its very bad when you take words out of the context.

Regarding the sliders, what wwfan (and others that really understand the game) say is... if you dont know what you are doing, then its best not to touch the sliders. Simples as that.

[milnerpoint]

Its very bad when you take words out of the context.

Regarding the sliders, what wwfan (and others that really understand the game) say is... if you dont know what you are doing, then its best not to touch the sliders. Simples as that.

It seems that taking things out of context is now the way forward on here, people read the tiny parts they disagree with and disregard the rest of what is written. If he had read the thread and not just skimmed through it he would realise what was actually being said, rather than read a small part and make up the rest to suit an argument.

[greco]

I havent changed my tactics to counter anything in the ME, im still as successful as i was pre-patch. I've changed two roles since release day (wingers from attack to support), thats it.

.

well that doesnt really make sense milnerpoint.

in regards to your point about playable vs unplayable, that is completely subjective. What is gamebreaking to you, might not be for me and vice versa. SI have made it clear, that there are certain problems, those problems turn some people off, so with an official statement and an admission regarding these bugs, is it not pointless for you to engage ín a debate, where its completely subjective.?

[Graham206]

Well, after getting slaughtered 5-0 by Chelsea I'm going to be taking the advice on dealing with top dribblers.

[milnerpoint]

well that doesnt really make sense milnerpoint.

It makes perfect sense, i didnt change anything to counter the ME, i changed it because i wanted something different from my team, and it worked a treat.

[Sussex Hammer]

I've been quite critical of this ME at times but reverting to FM12 ME would be a disaster. To be fair it had as many problems than FM13 like the fact that you couldn't really use AM's if you wanted them to defend, and you had to move CM's back to the DM slot if you wanted them to defend. Heading was awful as well as all headers went over the bar. The defensive side was so poor I ended up going with an attacking 4-4-2 for every game and got decent results with it probably because it played in my favour against the ME.

FM13 has had some bad problems but I now use a basic classic attacking 4-4-2 and a more reserved 4-1-4-1 as I realised against the big teams I was playing too defensive. There were certain illogical things in my set up. For example against the top Clubs I played a deep counter attacking game with Andy Carroll on his own up top. I then reasoned that you can't do that because he hasn't got the pace to play as a lone forward in a counter attacking set up so I pushed up a bit with a 4-4-1-1 and whilst the opposition get chances I now do as well simply by applying football logic. I have all my midfielders on mainly "mixed" settings and have reduced CF to the normal range and they do now play through balls. In the previous patch I had Matt Jarvis running inside all the time and shooting which was great when he scored but IRL you don't get him doing that 5 or 6 times a game. Now he may do it once or twice and cross a decent cross once or twice which again is now real life levels. My keeper now rolls out to defenders when in the previous patch he kicked it long and I don't now see three or four players close down one player. To be fair dribbling messiah's have also reduced although you still get one or two full backs doing it but it's not as much of an issue than the previous patch.

I agree that you shouldn't really have to turn down creative freedom to stop players from making poor decisions but A/ I have always thought the standard CF settings for the TC are a little off anyway. Most have strikers and some midfielders on a default high CF level but you have to see what sort of players you have. My lot I probably have a highest flair rating of 15 and not too many with high decision stats so it would be senseless to have them on a high CF. Why would I stick Andy Carroll on a high CF level? He isn't Messi. B/ Every FM since the ME was created you have to adjust some stats anyway. Since it was invented I think I have always had my long shots on rare for everyone and to be fair this patch on rare I think it is about right where the previous patch they were shooting from everywhere. Granted you should be able to use a mixed setting but again it's down to what players you have.

Sure there are still things not right and as I said I have been as bigger critic as most but at the same time with a few tactical tweaks I have seen a big difference in the way the ME plays.

[treble_yell_:-)]

I still play the same way too

It's weird though because people are acting like wwfan's advice on dribblers is something new. We've been saying this for years in the tactics forum, if you come up against someone good at dribbling and need your wide players to help track back properly, then specific man marking is the way to go.

I'm still not sure why people feel the need to change tactics every new ME though.

But then again I don't really focus on the ME anymore. I'd rather focus on player development and focus indepth on that side of the game. So I guess the issues people are having aren't happening to me because I'm not over focusing on them and an concentrating on playing a game rather than playing the ME.

Ok, I read your thread in tactics, I have read wwfans thread half a dozen times, I have read the old TTF ebooks.

My tactic is a simple 4-2-3-1 , fluid, unaltered roles etc. No trying to game the ME, no trying to exploit flaws etc. I have an excellent squad, my players all fit there roles etc.

How my tactic perform has flip flopped wildly between patches, for example my front 4 are Bale IF/a Sigi AM/s Lennon W/s and Cavani as a DLF/a

13.1.3 Cavani scored for fun, lots of good play with Sigi chipping in for a few goals , lennon getting a lot of assists and Blea generally just being awesome.

13.2 Bale and Lennon/Costa and Dembele from DLP just got the ball and ran, would either run into trouble or run until they shot, mostly wildly, Cavani was still scoring though the nature of his goals changed, and he was very very rarely involved in the build up play.

13.2.1 Wide players still run a lot and mostly look for the shot rather than the cross, both players have a very central average position in the analysis page despite the play down flanks, play wider and passing distribution set to wide. Dembele still runs all the time despite being told to never run with the ball , Sigi gets a lot of the ball and just shoots rather than trying to link the play and bring Cavani into play, Cavani is a passenger that isn't getting service inside the box or being utilised outside the box. Despite almost everyone being having long shots rarely, my shot analysis screen shots a ridiculous amount of shots from outside the box.

These are fundamental changes to how my tactic works, how can I possibly not make changes to the tactic to try to make it worth using again ? How can I change things for the better when the tools SI give me don't work ?

Example : the shots from distance, I can easily average 20-25 shots per game, the majority wild shots from outside the box. I'm using work ball into the box shout, my players have long shots rarely , what else can someone possibly do ? Someone else suggested creative freedom down until they stop shooting, if this is true it's a sign the ME / tactics tools don't work , rather than a fix.

I could continue without changing my tactic, but how the tactics plays has fundamentally changed each ME revision , and the tools that SI have given us to change things seem to have limited or no use right now, either through bugs or problems with the ME.

[greco]

It makes perfect sense, i didnt change anything to counter the ME, i changed it because i wanted something different from my team, and it worked a treat.

it actually does, apparently missed this part "i didnt change anything to counter the ME".

[tigerhgrrrrrr]

Im sure we all really appreciate that a patch was released so near to Xmas and respect all the festive season working hours that went into it but it feels like a rushed emergency fix, and one that in part at least failed. The cynic in me imagines a meeting last weekend at SI Towers anticipating the backlash from frustrated FM13 Xmas present receivers as there can be nothing worse for the SI Team than to hear "last year's version was better".

Im sorry but playing the ME seems to me to be the underlying solution to the current problems and that does not appeal to me. My grandparents used to have a saying which was something like, "patch in haste, repent in leisure".

[AndyFromDonny]

Firstly, thanks for the hard work as ever, it's not easy getting things right. Constructive comments then on the new patch.

I agree with long shots, too many of them and a bit of an issue fixing that at the moment. Passing wise it has improved, my tactics now translate better with that, in that my midfield will now try and pass it shorter, dictate possession and play how I'd like them too. Not enough through balls I'd say, it's not far off but it's just slightly too low, they don't have to connect, but they aren't attempting them enough either and that's a bit of an issue with the way I'm set up, as it thrives on through balls. It's getting there, but the long shots issue is a weakness IMO.

[jasse]

i have just played a game, which i won 3-0 with 18 vs 3 shots. which is totally okey considering i dominated the whole match (although my possession was "only" 51%)

however, there were 33 fouls comited, 12 yellow and 1 red given. it amazes me there were no deaths involved.... :-)

[Keyzer Soze]

i have just played a game, which i won 3-0 with 18 vs 3 shots. which is totally okey considering i dominated the whole match (although my possession was "only" 51%)

however, there were 33 fouls comited, 12 yellow and 1 red given. it amazes me there were no deaths involved.... :-)

It's too many cards, but with the "right" referee and with both teams on hard tackling... it could happen.

[jasse]

It's too many cards, but with the "right" referee and with both teams on hard tackling... it could happen.

yes, however I play strictly normal tackling and default closing down, in order to avoid many fouls and cards. I cannot tell about the opposition though. but it does seem a bit exagerated (how the heck do i spell that?). :-)

[scooby2008]

we would be very pleased if we could play without the long shots bug before the end of the year

[jasse]

we would be very pleased if we could play without the long shots bug before the end of the year

Amen to that!!!! :-)

(and the yellow cards :-) )

[AAlywan]

we would be very pleased if we could play without the long shots bug before march

Fixed that for you.

[MacZidane]

however, there were 33 fouls comited, 12 yellow and 1 red given. it amazes me there were no deaths involved.... :-)

There is absolutely nothing wrong with that, unless it happens in every game. Which it doesn't.

[Keyzer Soze]

Fixed that for you.

I'm sure they will fix that before you give a constructive feedback in this thread!

[Guest]

This ME just feels so random, for both the AI and the human controlled teams. There's a real lack of cohesion and it feels almost flimsy.

A friend of mine who still hasn't moved on from FM2012 came over and watched a game on FM2013 and couldn't believe he was watching two top level teams with the amount of times the ball was given away needlessly, miscontrolled, or players ran in the wrong direction.

[Ackter]

I cannot believe that anyone thinks this patch is step foward in the right direction, i just watched a game where apprently i had 26 shots with 11 on target yet the only chance i seen in the entire match (yes the ENTIRE MATCH) was them scoring a corner, this patch is more watching the timer than actiually watching football being played.

Am not going to sit and tell you exactly why this match engine is such a fail, because am not good with coding and bugs and all that, but all i can say is this is by far the worse fm patch ive ever played period, and ive been gaming with champ since 97/98 edition.

For me personally the game was perfectly fine before this xmas eve patch, the game was enjoyable and thats all that matters, i dont know where si got there feedback but it seems to many kids where crying about getting hammered 6-0 at the nou camp.

Sounds like you're using Key Highlights, which only shows goals.

[South-Side]

Funny enough i do not share the problems everybody seem to have after the patch. I say funny because when i and many others were complaining with the abnormal rate of injuries the answer was "it doesn't happen to all it is not a bug". So by this logic if it doesn't happen to some of us it can't be a bug.

The only thing that changed , keepers seem like Oliver Kahn reincarnated. Scoring became more difficult in contrast to what people say that they are winning by blowouts. It just doesn't happen to me so i cannot relate.

Just a question , if i'm keeping my salary budget below the cap by 50 k/month, don't transfer at all as my funds are scarce and have a decent number of season tickets sold , over 30k why am i posting a negative balance. Almost 3 mil last season...I do not remmember having this problem in FM12 as i always watched my finances carefully.

And i do not have any loans oustanding. Can someone help me with this predicament?

[maarten-85]

Although I appreciate the work put in by SI during the holidays, I don't feel like this hotfix fixes much. I do see runs being toned down. But now instead of running with the ball the players just shoot from everywhere.

If I'm honest I feel like almost every aspect of the ME now makes less sense than it did in 13.1.3, the most glaring problems being:

- Way too many shots. Especially long shots.

- Hardly any crosses anymore

- Closing down by defenders (especially on opposing wingers) is atrocious.

- Passing by midfield seems out of sync. Throughballs are down too much.

It just feels like the ME treats every player as though he has a decision stat of 1. The players just seem daft.

[Elrethiel]

the problems with the ME have made me paranoid, and now whenever I see my players doing something stupid is hard to tell if it is "my tactics" or something wrong with the ME, so I'm going to report here only things that I've seen happening both to my team and the AI's:

1. defenders not marking properly, I've come to think of this as headless chickens defense because they seem to run around pursuing the ball or clumping in groups like int his goal:

2. Defenders doing risky backpasses, this is hard to classify as a bug, because I've seen it happening in real life too, but the number of goals I've scored and I've been scored this way seems too high:

[video=youtube;brp-79IT1pM]

from a different match:

3. Long throws passed to an opposition player:

[video=youtube;_5cUXOJlK2c]

If I have time later I'll post some examples of other issues that seem to be a problem: AMCs not being marked, players running away from the ball near opponents and weird positioning of the defense on free kicks where there's an opponent putting a bunch of players onside and no one marking the players.

This in addition to the other issues people have been posting with runs and long shots.

[llama3]

Far too many long shots is the general theme of the new match engine - otherwise seems decent

[ragnarokflame]

Sounds like you're using Key Highlights, which only shows goals.

seriously? you think it only shows goals? as far as i can tell its SUPPOSED to show ALL clear cut chances, and sometimes even some half chances. since the latest update i have been basically watching the timer go along rather than the game, and will have maybe 4 or 5 highlights all game, with maybe 1 or 2 of those being goals. if its supposed to show only goals, then sorry to say, but its broken

i definately think the key highlights needs to be widened a bit to include more of the play. i know there is extended highlights, but this can often take 15-20 mins a game (including team selection etc). key highlights at the moment mean i can go through a weeks worth of managing 2 games, watch both on key and be done with it all in about 10 mins.

if people seriously want to see just the goals then add another setting in for it, i for one dont and am not sure it should be a setting to be honest.

the whole thing should have been properly tested before launch, and i dont really care what you have to say about reasons it wasnt. it should have been. surely any testers you had werent very thorough or any good as i still see really stupid things happening nearly every single match, even with only key highlights on, things like centre backs moving out of the way of dribbling players (happens to me and ai, even when i tried using high closing down and hard tackling), players not even moving towards loose balls in their own half when they are the nearest player, players with 18 finishing, 17 technique and 17 composure (my borini in season 4) scoring none of his 14 shots (of which none were long shots, and 6 were clear cut chances, then having tony hibbert in the same game run the length of the pitch, only to skin 3 of my defenders, and chip the goal keeper from 20 yards, while he is still on his line, with evertons 2nd shot of the game. if this was anyone else than TONY HIBBERT who scores less than most goalkeepers, i could accept it.

i can accept a couple of bugs, but this has taken quite a few patches, and a couple of MONTHS (out of a 12 month cycle between games lets not forget) and it still feels several miles from a finished product.

[MacZidane]

A friend of mine who still hasn't moved on from FM2012 came over and watched a game on FM2013 and couldn't believe he was watching two top level teams with the amount of times the ball was given away needlessly, miscontrolled, or players ran in the wrong direction.

A friend of mine who still only watches videos of the EPL from last season, came over and watched a Premier League game this season, and couldn't believe he was watching two top level teams with the amount of times the ball was given away needlessly, miscontrolled, or players running in the wrong direction.

But that's what happens when Aston Villa are live on Sky.

[milnerpoint]

seriously? you think it only shows goals? as far as i can tell its SUPPOSED to show ALL clear cut chances, and sometimes even some half chances. since the latest update i have been basically watching the timer go along rather than the game, and will have maybe 4 or 5 highlights all game, with maybe 1 or 2 of those being goals. if its supposed to show only goals, then sorry to say, but its broken

i definately think the key highlights needs to be widened a bit to include more of the play. i know there is extended highlights, but this can often take 15-20 mins a game (including team selection etc). key highlights at the moment mean i can go through a weeks worth of managing 2 games, watch both on key and be done with it all in about 10 mins.

If you want to see more action, use extended. Key is only there to show clear cut chances, and goals. In my game there are never more than 6/7 clear cut chances, so the likely hood is you will see very few highlights on that setting. They cannot keep adding indefinite numbers of layers to cater for everyone.

[apalaxe]

the problems with the ME have made me paranoid

No need to feel paranoid, in my opinion what happened in both videos is due to the chosen strategy in combination with your tactics in general, in the second video i am guessing the blue team is pushing high and attacking.

What the latest patches did to the game was to increase the rate of running with ball, shooting on sight and the behaviour/positioning of the players movement.

Chosen strategies and shouts affect both the team as the individual players settings, e.g: you chose a counter strategy and Counter setting box of the team setting will be on, the players will be looking to run from deep as soon as there is a likelihood of the ball ending up in possession and the players will look to put the ball forward rather than back.

If you use this kind of reasoning to analyse the play you will be able to make the appropriate tactical choices.

I think the game is enjoyable now, it was already at launch even if the balance upset in recent updates should be restored to allow to make full use of the pre-set shouts and strategies and instructions in general.

[THOG]

A friend of mine who still only watches videos of the EPL from last season, came over and watched a Premier League game this season, and couldn't believe he was watching two top level teams with the amount of times the ball was given away needlessly, miscontrolled, or players running in the wrong direction.

This ME just feels so random, for both the AI and the human controlled teams. There's a real lack of cohesion and it feels almost flimsy.

A friend of mine who still hasn't moved on from FM2012 came over and watched a game on FM2013 and couldn't believe he was watching two top level teams with the amount of times the ball was given away needlessly, miscontrolled, or players ran in the wrong direction.

Forget FM12 and watch some real football. FM still needs more wayward passes, heavy touches, etc. Why do you think the ME is so reliant on overpowered tackling?

Basically, the ME needs more pressing and more dispossessions from players simply being unable to control the ball under pressure.

In regards to the lack of contribution from CMs (supported by the disproportionate disparity between CM assists and CM key passes), I suspect it's related to the overpowered wingplay. After watching some full matches, CMs do attempt through balls, but CMs are far too likely to pass the ball out wide and let wingers cross or super-dribble into the box. Of course, given that real matches rarely see more than 2 or 3 accurate through balls, SI should be careful not to just overpower through balls to balance things out. IMO, CMs need to make more attempts to create chances inside and just around the box. It may also help to have forwards drop deep more often to receive passes through the middle.

[Elrethiel]

No need to feel paranoid, in my opinion what happened in both videos is due to the chosen strategy in combination with your tactics in general

Just to be clear, my team is the red one, what kind of tactics is the AI using that makes them bunch all the defenders in the middle of the area?

Like I said, to be fair the first video is something that might be attributed to a high attacking mentality, but I've seen this kind of mistakes with defenders passing the ball from the middle of the filed and just standing there while the opposing striker rushes for the ball and score, and with too much frequency to be a normal behavior.

The other problem is the throwing the ball to the opponent, I'm not sure if this has something to do with the other issue I'm seeing of players running away from the ball, if you check the video, the throw was directed to the right player, but he just moves aside and make way for my player to catch the ball.

All this examples are from the AI team to avoid the is your tactics answer, but it seems no getting away from that here

[Keyzer Soze]

I'm just wondering if everybody who are saying that the FM2012 ME is better, have actually gone back and play FM2012 again.

Because, when FM2013 was release i was really unhappy with the game, and remain unhappy untill patch 13.2, and in that period i went back and play FM2012.... for.... 1 hour.

Even when i feel ME from FM2013 was bad... going back to play FM2012 was a terrible experience because FM2012 just look so unreal.

The ball movement, is so weird to look now... at moments it feels like players are playing in a muddy pitch all the time... because the ball is sooooo slow.

In fact, when compare i can only think one thing was better in FM2012 when compare with FM2013:

THE NETS.... in particulary the net movement when a goal is scored!

[scooby2008]

FM 2013 is definitely better than FM 2012, but we need the long shots bug fixed!

[apalaxe]

Just to be clear, my team is the red one, what kind of tactics is the AI using that makes them bunch all the defenders in the middle of the area?

Like I said, to be fair the first video is something that might be attributed to a high attacking mentality, but I've seen this kind of mistakes with defenders passing the ball from the middle of the filed and just standing there while the opposing striker rushes for the ball and score, and with too much frequency to be a normal behavior.

The other problem is the throwing the ball to the opponent, I'm not sure if this has something to do with the other issue I'm seeing of players running away from the ball, if you check the video, the throw was directed to the right player, but he just moves aside and make way for my player to catch the ball.

All this examples are from the AI team to avoid the is your tactics answer, but it seems no getting away from that here

The throw ins are sketchy from launch, you can set them up yourself but to little improvement. I don't know what kind of passing skills you CB's have but if you play CD's with a fluid style for example with low passing skilled CB's i guess that mistakes are bound to happen.

Even in my main save team in the Serie A with 2 CD's from national team level sometimes they make bad decisions/passes when under pressure from the opposition. I have seen top opposition team CB's make this sort of mistakes too.

I am not pretending to have deep understanding of the game or of IRL football, i suggest you seek better advice from experienced players in the tactics forum.

In regards to your second example, it's not YOUR tactics, it's the opposition AI tactics, because the AI have the same options than the player and it's choices are not always wise.

[Keyzer Soze]

FM 2013 is definitely better than FM 2012, but we need the long shots bug fixed!

Yes yes... FM2013 ME has bugs, no question about that.

[Mensell76]

Ok, I read your thread in tactics, I have read wwfans thread half a dozen times, I have read the old TTF ebooks.

My tactic is a simple 4-2-3-1 , fluid, unaltered roles etc. No trying to game the ME, no trying to exploit flaws etc. I have an excellent squad, my players all fit there roles etc.

How my tactic perform has flip flopped wildly between patches, for example my front 4 are Bale IF/a Sigi AM/s Lennon W/s and Cavani as a DLF/a

13.1.3 Cavani scored for fun, lots of good play with Sigi chipping in for a few goals , lennon getting a lot of assists and Blea generally just being awesome.

13.2 Bale and Lennon/Costa and Dembele from DLP just got the ball and ran, would either run into trouble or run until they shot, mostly wildly, Cavani was still scoring though the nature of his goals changed, and he was very very rarely involved in the build up play.

13.2.1 Wide players still run a lot and mostly look for the shot rather than the cross, both players have a very central average position in the analysis page despite the play down flanks, play wider and passing distribution set to wide. Dembele still runs all the time despite being told to never run with the ball , Sigi gets a lot of the ball and just shoots rather than trying to link the play and bring Cavani into play, Cavani is a passenger that isn't getting service inside the box or being utilised outside the box. Despite almost everyone being having long shots rarely, my shot analysis screen shots a ridiculous amount of shots from outside the box.

These are fundamental changes to how my tactic works, how can I possibly not make changes to the tactic to try to make it worth using again ? How can I change things for the better when the tools SI give me don't work ?

I could continue without changing my tactic, but how the tactics plays has fundamentally changed each ME revision , and the tools that SI have given us to change things seem to have limited or no use right now, either through bugs or problems with the ME.

Excellent post and it sums up what I described after 13.2 was released. I really regret the fact that SI accepts a big part of this thread becoming an "it is your tactics" ranting war. Even some of the moderators are guilty of that.

Clearly what has happened between 13.1.3 and 13.2.1 has nothing to do with any tactics. As you state and as I can agree on, you can safely play with your current tactics from update to update. We will still win or lose probably as much in 13.2.1 as in 13.1.3.

However it is obvious for everyone to see that the gameplay in 13.2.1 is very different compared to 13.1.3 while using the exact (logical and solid) tactics. Compared to 13.1.3 my world footballer of the year Neymar seems to have become a different player. Either he has indeed become someone else or all players surrounding him in my team have . The funny thing is, I am not even completely disliking this current ME. If this was the first FM 2013 ME I would probably have liked it. For me the difference between how the builds play is just way too big. And it is hard to swallow being able to play 13.1.3 for a bit (which imo reflected real life football more than any other SI Me release to date) and then being forced to play with downgraded versions of that ME.

To me it seems that with this new ME (the FM2013 one) SI has not mastered the concept of tweaking well enough yet. If we go back to the specific wishes (besides some annoying and obvious bugs) after 13.1.3 we more or less asked for tweaks on the amount of shots in a match, the amount of through balls (or better described how quickly DC's reacted on through balls), the dribbling in a match, on set piece effectiveness and goal keeper action. SI did not deliver us tweaks but we got the complete opposite: way too many shots, hardly any through balls, excessive dribbling.

Because these last three are not tweaks but major changes the total game play experience has also changed. Changing these things will of course mean a totally different chain of (re)actions and thus a different gameplay: advanced playmakers become less effective, poachers will become more isolated and possessional play/ teamwork football will been seen a lot less. This again has nothing to do with how many of us set up a tactic, it is just a natural side effect of the programming/coding decisions SI has made. Now if we have to alter our tactics to contain these knock on effects it pretty much is "stopping the ME/beating the ME" all over again.

I fully accept balancing an ME is difficult. I even respect SI for working quickly on updating the updates, which more or less says that SI is not happy with their release either. However I would hope for a bit more transparency by SI (if this ME is the result of two years of hard work, where exactly did things go wrong and how come the last two updates do not feel like tweaking the ME but much more like complete ME overhauls) and also some more honesty by some of the moderators and extreme SI defenders on here when it comes to the ME. Whenever someone gives honest feedback it does not need replies on the tactical set up anymore. With this and the previous update we are way beyond that discussion.

I would still hope for SI to revert back to 13.1.3 and start tweaking (with an emphasize on that word) from there: do not touch the dribbling this time (I think it was excellent at 13.1.3), tweak the defender reaction on through balls (I think we would like to see the through balls still being tried but the succes rate being less) , the direct freek kick effectiveness, tweak the amount of shots just a little and implement the excellent work on goalkeepers again (one of the fantastic changes that have worked out well in this ME). It seems to me it would be easier to start from there than tweaking the 13.2.1 engine which is much further away from resembling real life football.

Just out of curiousity by the way. A question for SI: If is is possible to release an update with just an ME update (as with 13.2.1), how come it is not possible to release 13.1.3 again just as an ME update? I am not a programmer but seems to me that all that would have to be done is overwriting the current ME with a previous version.