*Official* Football Manager 2013 Constructive non-ME Feedback Thread

[luka_zg]

Are you at least agreeing with me that clean sheets seem nonexistent in FM13? Because I've put in about 45 hours of playtime and I don't think my experience can be blamed on low sample size anymore. I'm playing one of the world's best defenses (Man Utd) and playing ultra basic tactics, and I can't even keep clean sheets against crap teams like Reading and Norwich. Like I said, I've replayed the same fixture 9 times against Liverpool and neither team has kept a clean sheet.

I'm now in my3rd season, played 9 league games and conceded 2 goals, have 7 clean sheets. so,sorry but ....

[milnerpoint]

Hopefully wwfan takes a day or two to have a deep breath and comes back here, it would be awful for the forums if somone like himself stopped posting because of certain posters. I've seen outrage on here before, but the venom this year is something else. Mannors seem to have been lost on quite a few people.

Anyway, some more feedback from me. I've decided the DOF is something i will completely avoid, the AI just is not good enough to deal with things the way i would, its no biggie it was always going to be nothing more than delegation for me, but after a few crazy decisions from the guy he has been let go and i wont be hiring another in this version.

I'd also quite like some feedback on what you have to achieve to fufill your contract requirements, although from seeing this thread there is probably little chance of seeing many more SI posts thanks to the venom. Im struggling to fill the play youngsters contract thing, although im in the SPL, where you have to have 3 under 21's in your squad at all times, i regularly play 5/6 kids in my team at any time, all of which are through the clubs youth set up, but still it doesnt seem to have convinced them im trying, ill most likely take it out the next contract negotiations. Id like to know exactly what the board are looking for, is it similar to the challenge mode where you have to have a certain number of kids in the highest appearances for the season?

Finances are a huge improvement this year for me, the game is actually very hard now with a smaller club, you really have to watch what your spending, this will give my long term dons game quite a few extra years game time whilst i build the club up fully. Big thumbs up on that so far.

[Mendeth]

Are you at least agreeing with me that clean sheets seem nonexistent in FM13? Because I've put in about 45 hours of playtime and I don't think my experience can be blamed on low sample size anymore. I'm playing one of the world's best defenses (Man Utd) and playing ultra basic tactics, and I can't even keep clean sheets against crap teams like Reading and Norwich. Like I said, I've replayed the same fixture 9 times against Liverpool and neither team has kept a clean sheet.

I don't mean to boast (too much) here but I'm in January 2013, so first season, with Man Utd but so far I've only conceded 4 goals in the league. So it certainly is possible to keep clean sheets. I have no great idea how I'm managing to do this, I'll admit. I'm not really sure whether it's a combination of good defensive play and my CBs being on form, whether all opposition times have had a couple down the pub before the game, or just blind luck. I do generally dominate possession at home and away, so that probably makes a difference. I keep expecting to be given a thrashing any game now but I did just hand out some seet revenge to Man City with a 5-0 drubbing, so long may the run continue.

[Sussex Hammer]

I loaded up the game last week but have just been looking around the interface and haven't played a game as yet but here are my thoughts on what has been written here:

Size of text : If you have an issue and if you haven't already try changing the screen resolution in preferances. I have always used 1024 X 768 rather than the default and although I have to scroll up and down it's better for the eyes...

ME : FM12 was bad ME wise in a lot of areas. Defending was poor and central midfielders and wide wingers pushed on didn't track back (is this still happening in 13?) Crossing was poor and a lot of goals scored were the same type of goals, there wasn't a lot of difference in what happened match to match IMO. I ended up using an attacking 4-4-2 because defending was not that good. Long shots have been plentiful in the last couple of versions and I think since FM11 I always have long shots turned off unless one player is great at them.

FM13 : Correct me if I am wrong but looking at a lot of what has been said here is that it looks like the ME is now designed to allow real life tactics but not so much those that wouldn't really work IRL? If that's the case then in some ways that is good because it always annoyed me that you couldn't have any success with a 4-4-2 but if you went to an asymetric 3-1-1-2-1-1-1 for instance you would get great results!! However I note one post suggesting a list of tactics that are hardly ever used in football now and 4-4-2 was mentioned. Does this mean that the poster suggested that the ME makes it difficult to use those tactics just because they are considered old hat? If so then that is poor design because lots of teams at low level and at the top level still use a 4-4-2 and surely it's wrong to design the ME to allow only certain "tactics" to work? I may have got that totally wrong though it's just as what I have understood as written.

One thing that this thread seems to be all about though is tactics and the ME and we seem to be ignoring the fact that football on the whole is all about players. Man United will 9 times out of 10 beat Wigan whether they use a 4-4-2 or whatever because they have better players. Yes you will get the odd result but on the whole Utd will win because of the players. And when did football become a "we better worry about them" scenario? Most managers certainly at home will play their favoured formation and ask questions of the away team who may then try and counter that thinking. At the same time they may not, they may just play their own game and see if they can get a result that way. It's the hints in FM itself which suggests you should not tinker with your tactics too much to allow your players time to get used to the way of play so as someone suggested to "change your tactic for each opponent" that is surely not constructive for team cohesion?

Football in my opinion is 10% tactics, 10% morale and 80% players.....

On peoples frustrations : I have seen it a lot on these forums over the years. If you are struggling some suggest "it's your tactics". If you are doing well it's been suggested that "You have accidently stumbled across a super tactic that finds holes in the ME" and that isn't nice, it's happened to me, and it suggests you are inadvertantly cheating and beleve me that puts a dampner on your participation within the game when you just thought you had come up with a "good tactic". We need some middle ground where both sides can work together to try and make this a football simulation where the ME works in a realistic way but without taking away the enjoyment of taking a Club to the League title when they wouldn't do that in real life.

[milnerpoint]

FM13 : Correct me if I am wrong but looking at a lot of what has been said here is that it looks like the ME is now designed to allow real life tactics but not so much those that wouldn't really work IRL? If that's the case then in some ways that is good because it always annoyed me that you couldn't have any success with a 4-4-2 but if you went an asymetric 3-1-1-2-1-1-1 for instance you would get great results!! However I note one post suggesting a list of tactics that are hardly ever used in football now and 4-4-2 was mentioned. Does this mean that the poster suggested that the ME makes it difficult to use those tactics? If so then that is poor design because lots of teams at low level and at the top level still use a 4-4-2 and surely it's wrong to design the ME to allow only certain "tactics" to work? I may have got that totally wrong though it's just as what I have understood as written.

A 4-4-2 works perfectly in the game, if set up properly, they have not made anything, except gamey exploit tactics, redundant.

[Govnar1]

FM13 : Correct me if I am wrong but looking at a lot of what has been said here is that it looks like the ME is now designed to allow some real life tactics...

Corrected.

[Sussex Hammer]

A 4-4-2 works perfectly in the game, if set up properly, they have not made anything, except gamey exploit tactics, redundant.

Well that's good for Managers stuck in the 80's like me!! ;-)

[edgar555]

A 4-4-2 works perfectly in the game, if set up properly, they have not made anything, except gamey exploit tactics, redundant.

Well that's good for Managers stuck in the 80's like me!! ;-)

Herein lies one of the biggest problems with the ME. 442 is now virtually redundant in world football but is now the go to tactic in FM13. The majority of squads are not set up to play 442 so you are required to ship players in and out (effecting gelling) and it just seems wrong.

[milnerpoint]

Herein lies one of the biggest problems with the ME. 442 is now virtually redundant in world football but is now the go to tactic in FM13. The majority of squads are not set up to play 442 so you are required to ship players in and out (effecting gelling) and it just seems wrong.

Depends what league your in, in Scotland its still very prevelent and used every week.

[Kriss]

I've deleted a couple of posts because they're getting personal and will just inflame things further.

If anybody has issues with moderating or Moderators they should use the contact us button which will ensure they're message reaches a member of SI staff.

[Kriss]

442 isn't redundant in real life football and isn't the go to tactic in FM13.

Any logical tactic will work in FM13, but more than ever it does need to use logic.

I do think some of the current glitches make this harder to see than it should be so it'll be interesting to see how people get on after a few fixes.

[Sussex Hammer]

Herein lies one of the biggest problems with the ME. 442 is now virtually redundant in world football but is now the go to tactic in FM13. The majority of squads are not set up to play 442 so you are required to ship players in and out (effecting gelling) and it just seems wrong.

4-4-2 is often still used. Most of todays "fancy" tactics are 4-4-2's with the odd tweak. Newcastle v West Ham yesterday they both played a hybrid 4-4-2/4-4-1-1. Personally I like 4-4-1-1 but in FM it was always difficult to get right because the balance between attacking and defending of the attacking midfielder was difficult to get right, which is why I always use a roaming left forward in a 4-4-2. I might change to it in 13 if they have got that right.

I also think the majority of squads in the Premier League allow the Manager to play 4-4-2. Just a narrower hard working form of 4-4-2 whereas wide men tend to be like Milner rather than a Matt Jarvis but that's not to say it's dead. A few years ago it was 3 at the back and a sweeper and we went back to 4-4-2. Then it was 4-5-1, now it's 4-2-3-1 but I can guarantee there will always be room for the old 4-4-2 as it's one of the most balanced logical tactics you can use.

I manage at weekends in adult football and I play either a 4-4-2 or 4-5-1/4-3-3 and at parks level 90% of teams will use nothing more than a 4-4-2. But one thing I can guarantee you is that a 3-1-1-2-1-1-1 won't work at park level!!!!! ;-)

[Äktsjon Männ]

The problem with 442 in FM is the positional rigidness in the ME. The 'deep lying' striker doesn't drop into midfield to link play anywhere near enough and it seems worse in 13 than it was in 12. Also when defending they both stay up the field with the opposition center backs and never offer any help to midfielders or defenders. The 4411 still has the top two players moving around pretty much on top of each other on many occasions which looks incredibly stupid and doesn't really help with build up play. Both formations work but these flaws make using them rather annoying, at least for me.

[ArcticMonkey]

Any idea when the ME improvements patch will be available?

[Keyzer Soze]

Any idea when the ME improvements patch will be available?

I think PaulC said something about the ME changes been implemented to the end of the month.

[Welshace]

There hasn't been a date announced yet, when there is, it will be on the forums

[luka_zg]

I'll say that I had some nice results with 4-4-1-1, 4-2-3-1deep and 4-5-1 on FM13. all of them were made only by using TC.

I have one question for tactic experts here, if I set poacher to more roaming,does that mean he'll search for pockets of space in opposition third..because now I feel there is not enough through balls towards him, so I was thinking maybe he is closed down and I should allow him more freedom?

[PaulC]

I'm kind of steering clear of this thread at the moment as it too easily becomes a distraction and much of the feedback is not what I want these forums to be about, but by way of an update, we are aiming to release a new ME within a week or so subject to testing. I'll update the work in progress changelist in due course.

[Govnar1]

The problem with 442 in FM is the positional rigidness in the ME. The 'deep lying' striker doesn't drop into midfield to link play anywhere near enough and it seems worse in 13 than it was in 12. Also when defending they both stay up the field with the opposition center backs and never offer any help to midfielders or defenders. The 4411 still has the top two players moving around pretty much on top of each other on many occasions which looks incredibly stupid and doesn't really help with build up play. Both formations work but these flaws make using them rather annoying, at least for me.

Amen to that! Your argument really ends the discussion on ME realism. Game is enjoyable, no doubt about it, but not quiet life like (especial in lower and lesser leagues but that is another story).

[sirgiorgio]

442 isn't redundant in real life football and isn't the go to tactic in FM13.

Any logical tactic will work in FM13, but more than ever it does need to use logic.

I do think some of the current glitches make this harder to see than it should be so it'll be interesting to see how people get on after a few fixes.

I agree, except:

1) The current ME doesn't just have a couple of aesthetic bugs, but also some fundamental ones (for instance, defensive line / pressing). At the moment, every attempt to create a logical (realistic) tactic is useless, you can only follow the logic the ME suggests you.

2) Some default tactics (the ones used by the AI) are everything but logical.

[whoneedstherapy]

I agree with this, though i dont think this is a ME issue, rather a animation issue, at least i see it that way. Really hope this could be fixed, or at least improved at time for the next patch. It's one of those things that helps improving the match day experience... at least for me.

Oh and another thing... the ball still looks too small! I dont know if this is related with the camera angle i use (main stand) but the truth is... the ball looks took small!

Apart from that, the new interface is starting to look better and better. I must admit, the first time i play FM2013 i really hate the new interface and skin. Things seem to look out of place, without any logic displacement. But after a couple of days playing the game, i'm starting to find quite the opposite. Nice work there.

Issues with the ME, 3 or 4... but none that i considerer game braking:

- Bad closing down and pressing. I've seen so many times fowards running away from the defenders and getting that feeling that the defender should be getting that ball.

- When using a short pass tactic, the team just plays too much "Barcelona style". I usually play a 451 formation, and i see too many times the 3 man from the midfield that passing the ball around with no progression at all and not making the through ball to the foward of the inside forwards. This could be related to my tactic, not setting up my 3 man up front the right way to get into space, so not sure if is a ME issue, or a Keyser Soze issue!

- With the 451 formation, and not sure if this happens with other formations, when defending, the 3 men from the midfield go to deep into the defence, turning my team to a 5 men D-line with 2 more man just up front. This happens even if i use a push up D-Line. This get the opponet to score many times from shot from just outside the box where they have 2 or 3 man unmarked.

- Goalkeepers... they are bad indeed! In this particulary point FM2012 was much better. Still confident that this will get a major improvement soon.

When this issues get fixed, plus the players and ball slidding, the game will be on the spot for me.

I found a similar issue playing 4-5-1 with near total domination but a very poor amount of shots. I changed from Counter to Attacking and my striker from AF to Poacher and it seems to have gotten a bit better. I've also bought a midfielder with a decent long shot so that's really opened up some opportunities. I actually don't mind it now to be honest.

Goalkeepers reflex saves seem to be better, or look better than FM12 IMO

The most frustrating thing i've seen is the increased frequency of hitting the post. In the last 3 trials i've hit the post a total of 8 times from 41 shots! Maybe swedish strikers love a forest...

[Sussex Hammer]

The problem with 442 in FM is the positional rigidness in the ME. The 'deep lying' striker doesn't drop into midfield to link play anywhere near enough and it seems worse in 13 than it was in 12. Also when defending they both stay up the field with the opposition center backs and never offer any help to midfielders or defenders. The 4411 still has the top two players moving around pretty much on top of each other on many occasions which looks incredibly stupid and doesn't really help with build up play. Both formations work but these flaws make using them rather annoying, at least for me.

That's probably my biggest gripe in FM and has been for a while. In my opinion and it's just my opinion, how many real life formations out there? Flat 4-4-2, 4-4-2 Diamond, 4-5-1, 4-3-3, 4-2-3-1, 4-3-2-1, 4-5-1, 3-4-3, 3-5-2, 5-3-2. Sorry if I have missed any out. But why not take the main ones used and work on those in the ME. Work on allowing front men to drop back, wingers to track back, an attacking midfielder to play the way he should. Work on making each player role in a batch of real life tactics as real as possible.

Watching the Newcastle v West Ham game yesterday. You watch Kevin Nolan find space, drift about, anticipate flick ons, help the midfield. Very difficult to replicate in FM. In the last 10 minutes Andy Carroll was playing pretty much as a 3rd centre half. Again pretty difficult to replicate unless you plonk him there!! Maybe that is the way forward for the ME. Concentrate on real life tactics and concentrate on getting player roles and behaviour correct.

[Welshace]

Either post it in the bug reporting forums for not at all...

This isn't a place to regurgitate other people's issues...

It's not constructive in any way....

[Preveza]

I'm kind of steering clear of this thread at the moment as it too easily becomes a distraction and much of the feedback is not what I want these forums to be about, but by way of an update, we are aiming to release a new ME within a week or so subject to testing. I'll update the work in progress changelist in due course.

Cheers for that bit of info Paul...Really excited about the new changes being implemented. I understand the ME in FM13 is a benchmark compared to FM12, so these bugs which have been unfortunately prevelant in this years release are inevitable. The only was is up from here

I really hope you and your team take your time and dont rush a release until the ME is considerably better than what we currently have.

Ps. Keep up the hard work

[Emmeth]

I'm kind of steering clear of this thread at the moment as it too easily becomes a distraction and much of the feedback is not what I want these forums to be about, but by way of an update, we are aiming to release a new ME within a week or so subject to testing. I'll update the work in progress changelist in due course.

Excellent Paul, much appreciated.

Please keep us in the loop, despite critics we appreciate your efforts.

[Govnar1]

I agree, except:

2) Most default attacking tactics used by the AI are everything but logical.

It's better now.

[KingBuzzo15]

These "problems" with the ME are getting boring. I have managed to win 2 trebles in a row with Man Utd. I conceded the least goals and scored the most in both seasons.

There is the odd AI decisions which are silly but other than that my success has been from some user tactics (4-2-3-1) and getting the team talks/man management right.

The main thing I would say I am not keen on is the wingers going on daft runs and missing open nets from a few yards out.

Other than that it is a fantastic game. I especially like the training camps.

[Gandolaro]

I'm kind of steering clear of this thread at the moment as it too easily becomes a distraction and much of the feedback is not what I want these forums to be about, but by way of an update, we are aiming to release a new ME within a week or so subject to testing. I'll update the work in progress changelist in due course.

Good News!!

[Welshace]

Personally speaking... I know there are fixes coming for the ME..

I'd love to hear how everyone's finding the rest of the game ... the ME has taken dozens of pages in this thread by now.

[WormboY]

Tks, really tks, for deleting my post with an image and a video of a FM'13 bug.

Best regards.

[PaulC]

Tks, really tks, for deleting my post with an image and a video of a FM'13 bug.

Best regards.

http://community.sigames.com/forumdisplay.php/296-Match-Engine-3D-and-Team-Talks

[RTHerringbone]

Personally speaking... I know there are fixes coming for the ME..

I'd love to hear how everyone's finding the rest of the game ... the ME has taken dozens of pages in this thread by now.

Don't want to break the general rule of this thread by sounding positive, but I'm finding it excellent and have to say that it feels like the most accessible and immediately rewarding iteration of the series so far.

I'm playing FMC and am flying through seasons. In probably the last 6 or 7 games in the series, I have never been able to get further than 6 or 7 seasons in, either due to a lack of time to play, or because frankly I wasn't enjoying the game as much.

FMC strips out a lot of stuff (too much in some cases) but gives the enjoyment of the game back to me, and for me that is the key to a computer game. As a first stab at a new game mode, I think it is extremely polished and highly playable out of the box, which bodes well for future iterations of the mode.

The interface is a massive step forward, the skin is great in FMC and generally, I'm very pleased.

Reluctantly touching on the ME - I have to say that I haven't seen issues to the extent that others have. I only play with key highlights, and whilst the odd goal I concede or score comes from an arguably dubious piece of play, they are far from rife. This critically may be because I'm sticking 100% to Tactics Creator, and am not tweaking any individual setting at all - I set the team instructions, player roles and duties, and then stand well back!

[Ranquelme]

Personally speaking... I know there are fixes coming for the ME..

I'd love to hear how everyone's finding the rest of the game ... the ME has taken dozens of pages in this thread by now.

Other parts of the game are good but there's a few gripes, one being I think players request transfers far too easily. Alexis Sanchez requested a transfer as Barcelona were under achieving, despite winning all their CL group games and being 4th in the league, he left by January to Arsenal for £31m.

Anderson is transfer listed at the start of the game - always goes to Everton. I might change that in the editor myself tbh..

[bigdunk]

To be honest, if you're 4th in the league with Barca, you are underachieving

[Ranquelme]

True, they won the CL that season though Whereas Arsenal finished 9th..

[Welshace]

The transfer list after the first season does remind me of a sweet shop to a kid.

Soooo many brillliant world class players on the transfer list. I can't decide whether its it's true to real life or not. We all know big time players request transfers every season to be fair.

[BiggusD]

Personally speaking... I know there are fixes coming for the ME..

I'd love to hear how everyone's finding the rest of the game ... the ME has taken dozens of pages in this thread by now.

The rest of the game appear to be very good.

+ talking staff out of leaving

+ comprehensive/extended both very good

+ better match graphics

+ Aggression not decreasing after fines for violent behaviour

+ better speed

+ haven't messed with period-based training yet, but so far it looks like the individual training interface works fine. I don't miss the sliders.

+ coaches overview works better but I miss a clear-all button

- negotiations are still not negotiations

- Key highlights are fast and that is good, I requested that, but I miss some form of slow-down for some chances. What about a hybrid? Half-chances are cut out, while chances are text-based and a bit slower, and clear-cuts + goals are 3d? I use Extended and like it, but when playing network or 2-player I might need to go Key and that's not so enjoyable right now.

- "difficulty" is still decided by the manager's reputation despite the fact that choosing a too low starting reputation ruins team talks, a major part of football management. There should be an option that allows you to access proper team talks and morale management the first couple of seasons without being chased around by Real Madrid and have superstars want to play for you in the lower leagues. What about a "club legend" starting reputation? N00b to the rest of the world, hero in the club you start in.

- the commentator comments before and after the match are still just as nonsensical and still lacks variation

- the lack of ctrl +/- font/text box size adjustment options are still baffling me

[Ranquelme]

The transfer list after the first season does remind me of a sweet shop to a kid.

Soooo many brillliant world class players on the transfer list. I can't decide whether its it's true to real life or not. We all know big time players request transfers every season to be fair.

I think it is true to true life but at times it feels a bit clogged up with world class talent asking for transfers, it all happens by January that top players just want to get out of their clubs.

[thomas_e]

I've never been active on this forum, but I've read through many pages of this thread, so I had to register for an account so I could give a reply. I gotta say, some of the feedback given here is appalling. There is no point ranting about certain results that you got against this and this opponent, and how unrealistic it is for a top team to loose against a semi-professional side.. Real Madrid lost 4-0 against semi-professional Alcoron in the 2010 season, not excactly expected, but these things happen... cup upsets happen every season!

I noticed that quite a few posts here talk about FM13 not being a sandbox game and that there is only some tactics that will work. "a type of video game level design where a player can roam freely through a virtual world and is given considerable freedom in choosing how or when to approach objectives." This is the definition of a sandbox game, but of course FM13 (or any other FM for that matter) does not give the player 100% freedom in creating their own way of playing. No matter how good the ME will be after the update, there will always be certain tactics that work better than others (and btw, 4-4-2 is certainly not made redundant IRL). After all, its just a game and it will always have limitations and certain ways will be more effective than others in reaching a goal, like all "sandbox" games. There are way too many elements in football to create a perfect game that takes every tactical aspect into consideration. But I'm also sure that people will succeed with all kinds of tactics, being 4-4-2. 4-3-3, 3-5-2 etc.

There is no doubt that the ME has flaws, and I don't see any of the moderators denying that! Hopefully we will get a proper patch soon, but until then, its actually optional to play this game! I've played 4 seasons with QPR, never finishing below 5th place, and I don't think I've ever played a FM game as much as this one!! I've beaten Barcelona at Loftus Road, and I've gotten knocked out of the Cup by a League 2 side. After that game I threw my new pc mouse into the wall, and I want SI (or one of the admins) to give me a new one with a fresh ME patch no wait, that's football, and thats why we all love it!

I don't think the ME discussion will stop until Jan-Feb and it's too bad, because all the **** talking here is just destroying the community. After all, this is a forum for people who love football (and know a lot about it as well), not some Counter Strike forum full of geeks...

I would like to mention a couple of positives/negatives that I've experienced after a couple of seasons:

Positives

- I really like the added functions on game day, especially the good feedback from my assistant manager. I also think that the extended highlights(not playing with english language, so might be the wrong experession) gives a good amount of detail.

- Might only be my computer, but the game is quite a lot faster this year. In FM12 it felt like an eternity between games sometimes (especially when there was international games).

- I really like the scouting system, both regarding player scouting as well as opposition.

- Even though it has a couple of bugs, I like the idea of the new training system. It was effective to create many individual categories in last years game, but this one seem more realistic to real life

- Correct me if Im wrong, but on FM12 you could not tick a box to give the players an automatic rest day after games, and this is great in FM13.

Negatives

- I think that sometimes the game overcomplicates the menus. When I'm in the tactics screen I would like to go straight to player instructions when clicking on the position, not go via the player menu.

- Like in FM12, I think that many of the re-gens are too good at young age. After a few seasons, you can create a world-class team of almost exclusively 18-19 year olds, who you can sign for almost nothing.

- I think it should be possible to use more than your original wage budget when signing players on the Bosman-rule in late December. At my current save I just missed out on some major talents because of my small wage budget, when it obviously would have been good signings for the club. After all, I also have players leaving at the end of the season, who would make up for it.

In general, I think it's a great game, and after the next patch I think we will see a game that is way better than any previous version. It's sad to see that moderators who are using their own spare time helping out people, leaving the forum because of abuse. IMO, that's not worthy of a Football Manager community

As I mentioned earlier in the post, English is not my first language, so please ignore typos

[sirgiorgio]

The transfer list after the first season does remind me of a sweet shop to a kid.

Soooo many brillliant world class players on the transfer list. I can't decide whether its it's true to real life or not. We all know big time players request transfers every season to be fair.

That's something I noticed, too. Even before the end of the first season. Hamsik was transfer listed by request in October in my save.

On the one hand, I like to see some "fireworks" from the transfer market, it's better than the lack of movement of FM12, 11...

On the other hand, maybe it needs to be toned down a little bit. But just a little bit.

[hamilton81]

The Director of Football is a good addition but gets fairly annoying after a while. It would be great if you could communicate with him the areas of the pitch you want him to strengthen. For instance I could select the fullback and central midfield position so he knows to focus on these kind of players. At the moment he keeps trying to sign players for positions that I don't use in my formation. You would think he would get the hint when I cancel the transfer of his last eighteen players? I signed a good D of F with high attributes people were talking about in another part of the forum but the only thing he is good for is selling players for me. Surely a manager and D of F speak about what positions to focus on? (if there is a way of doing this please let me know!)

[roykela]

When i go on the squad screen for my reserves/u18s it seems like all the stats there are based on their appearances and performances in the first team.

To explain a bit better. I'm looking at my U18 squad now and there are only 2 players with stats. They both have 1 appearance each.

Whereas on FM12 it showed the squads stats in their respective leagues.

1st team showed 1st team stats.

Reserves showed reserves stats.

U18s showed U18s stats.

I really wish it would be possible to have a separate screen for 1st, reserves and youth squads (u18, u19 etc).

[Welshace]

not some Counter Strike forum full of geeks...

I resent that! ..

Nothing to do with me being a core admin in the biggest counter strike clan / forum in the UK of course... ahem

[sirgiorgio]

The Director of Football is a good addition but gets fairly annoying after a while. It would be great if you could communicate with him the areas of the pitch you want him to strengthen. For instance I could select the fullback and central midfield position so he knows to focus on these kind of players. At the moment he keeps trying to sign players for positions that I don't use in my formation. You would think he would get the hint when I cancel the transfer of his last eighteen players? I signed a good D of F with high attributes people were talking about in another part of the forum but the only thing he is good for is selling players for me. Surely a manager and D of F speak about what positions to focus on? (if there is a way of doing this please let me know!)

The fact that DoF's are good at selling players definitely makes the game better. I was sick and tired of having 234342 players in my reserves team and having to offer them to clubs one by one.

I agree they aren't that good at buying players, although they found me some pretty good youngsters at a relatively low price.

[thomas_e]

I resent that! ..

Nothing to do with me being a core admin in the biggest counter strike clan / forum in the UK of course... ahem

Hehe, you know what I meant I never miss the chance for a game of CS myself!

[luka_zg]

I like DoF..I don't give him any freedom to do anything, I use him to loan players out and sell players I want to get rid of and sometimes I just give him a player I want on transfer target and sometimes he manages to buy sometimes I have to do it but anyway..good addition.

[Herbert Fandel]

I second the sentiment of some FM 13 feedback not related to the ME!

I personally have been a huge fan of many of the new features.

However, I have not yet been convinced that the AI has genuninely become better at squad building.

In my St. Johnstone file I am already disappointed by the AI, and I am only at the beginning of season 3.

At St. Johnstone I have been signing players that St. Johnstone would never sign, all on free transfers, especially players released from EPL clubs who aren't willing initially but come to me later in the season. My current team are miles better in all areas than the starting squad.

Other SPL teams however are still signing players of the same level as the SPL squads on day 1.

As a result, using the same not especially good tactics throughout, season 1 I stumbled to 8th place, season 2 I almost came 1st, and season 3 I am about 7 points clear after 10 games. I haven't changed any tactics, so the problem is the AI can't strengthen the way I can.

I can see how it is difficult to program though, as it is my squad that is unrealistic, not the AIs.

There is no doubt it has been made harder to improve your own squad, with it being harder to get loans and young stars.

Can anyone with experience of the game that isn't limited to SPL and has gone further than season 3 tell me a different story? Would love to hear about some people experiencing good AI teambuilding.

[Welshace]

I certainly haven't got very far at all into the game so can't comment on it with any authority, but what I have noticed is that teams who would previously buy ridiculous players (see: man city) are now actually buying players who do add to the team and bring something different.

No longer am I seeing man city, as an example, buying up every high reputation player in sight.. sure they still buy a fair few players, but they always seem to make some sense to me.

One issue is that they are still forgetting about players they already have of course.. Javi Garcia for instance, has ended up in the reserves a fair few times after the first few months, which is a disappointment, but I guess, he isn't really getting that much playing time irl either.

[Flohrinho]

Personally speaking... I know there are fixes coming for the ME..

I'd love to hear how everyone's finding the rest of the game ... the ME has taken dozens of pages in this thread by now.

Alright I'll try and give a short overview on my thoughts on the game excluding any me talk.

User Interface

While I didn't have much of a problem finding my way around new navigation I felt a few things where rather badly done. For example the Overview screen for team and player stats is just a complete mess and perfect example of how less is sometimes more. Don't get me wrong I love statistics and I would love if the game had even more of them but it's more of a design issue with this page then anything else.

Why do their have to be 19 items on the overview page an most of them in such tiny boxes that it's hard to actually gather any useful information from it. I would prefer it if the overview screen had between 4-6 items it which you could chose for yourself and if you wanted more detailed information there should be tabs to chose from and then have the possibility to get into the more detailed statistics.

SI should take a look at the website whoscored.com and see how they organize team and player statistics and which of these stats are relevant, they do it in one of the clearest way I have seen stats presented anywhere. Tabs and sortable columns would offer a really nice setup for statistics I feel and the technology is already in the game from searching players oh yeah and if possible it would be nice if the view on the "summery" or "overview" screen would be just as customizable as the information about players.

Media Interaction

Well this is still the least fun part for me in the game. Press conferences are just an unnecessary time sink to me and I still hope we'll get the chance to turn them off even in the full game. I even would send my assistant if I would trust him to not **** things up but I don't. I just feel that simulating press conferences is just way too much of a complex thing to ever be done in a halfway realistic manner without. At it's current state it's just an annoyance more then anything else.

But I get that making press conferences being a meaningful tool in the game that isn't turning into it's own mini-game is a hard task to accomplish, I just hope you'll think about giving the option to turn them off in the near future.

Player Interaction

I feel this area has improved a fair bit and it seems that you'll have more often then not the right topic to talk about.

Non the less I feel some things are still confusing like for example if you want to compliment a MC on his great defensive performance in the last game where he made 10 successful tacklings and interceptions but all you get to talk about is that his passing was great or his finishing. I know that those are just different levels of complimenting your player on his performance and the passing or finishing prefix is actually not that important but it still feels a bit one dimensional and lackluster.

There is another area I feel that could need improving and that's feedback on a player motivation. Every FM game I'm playing I seem to have at least one player who always seems to drop in moral no matter how good my team is doing and how well he is playing, I can compliment him through talking to him and that will sometimes "fix" his moral for a short period of time but then he'll be back to sulking and being poorly motivated. The problem is that it's almost impossible to tell why because his information page is telling me that he is happy at the club and optimistic about his future and all that stuff that indicates that he is one happy customer. Yet moral is bad and constantly dropping shortly after having gained a bit.

Staff AI

I still feel that a large amount of the advice given by your staff is rather useless.

Of course it can help you sometimes when a coach points out a specific weak point of your player but then again I'm missing the option to tell my assistant what my plan in the development of the player is. Let's say I have a talented youngster which I feel could do great as a ball winning midfielder because he has the right mental attributes but is still lacking in areas like tackling and strength. This leads to my assistants feeling the player would be more apt to play a DLP but I don't employ this role in my tactics and have no plan of using one of these players in the near future, yet my assistant will keep telling my that I need to improve his passing instead of his tackling and marking.

It would be nice if we could set an intended role and position for a player and then my assistant could tell me which attributes he would focus on depending on the role I chose for the player.

Opponent AI

This is where I feel the game has probably made some of the biggest improvements. I really can't remember having seen any FM so far where the opposition employed so many tactical changes during a single game to counter my changes, which might actually be the single biggest reason why players are struggling with a single tactic and mentality approach.

It's still a bit early for me to say something about the squad building abilities of the opponent AI but I have seen more good transfers in my 3 season FMC beta game then I have seen happening over my 14 season FM12 save game, so if the AI manages to get the transition right from original players to newgen players it could actually mean that AI teams might remain more competitive in the long term.

Communication

Communicating with FM has always been a bit of a problem for me and FM13 hasn't changed that too much.

May it be that I don't always know what to do with the tactical advice given during games by your assistant, the opposition scouting report or my players moral. I often find myself at a loss to what actually to do with the incredible amount of information provided by the game and that after reading all the great posts by people here on the tactic forums. Reading through the posts in this thread I also feel that lots of frustration comes from the fact that it's often hard to tell where you are doing wrong.

What I would love to see is probably a pre-match meeting with your staff, in which they will give tactical advice and feedback on player form and which opponents to keep a close eye on during matches. I know that for players like wwfan, Cleon, Lam and FuriousUK reading the provided data correctly and translating that into their tactical setup is probably second nature but on everyone of these players comes someone like me who has rather a hard time translating the information he just got into a meaningful tactical approach. In short something like the backroom meeting available before every game where your backroom staff helps you to make sense of all that data available before matches and give you advice on the tactical setup, OIs and all that stuff you can use to influence the way your team plays.

As I feel this is getting a bit long I'll stop here for now even though there are probably still some topics one could talk about but if I'll probably do that in another post.

[Kriss]

However, I have not yet been convinced that the AI has genuninely become better at squad building.

Can anyone with experience of the game that isn't limited to SPL and has gone further than season 3 tell me a different story? Would love to hear about some people experiencing good AI teambuilding.

It's not much better and tbh I don't think there's an easy way to make it better.

The AI can't initiate it can only respond to triggers, all possible logical responses have to be coded before a method to make it choose one is written, that method can't be entirely random or we'd all be saying it's crap so a secondary set of qualifications has to be written etc. et al.

Until the AI actually becomes sentient SI would need to hire a million or so people to write enough code for the AI to appear to be acting logically and spontaneously, the current short cut methods are ugly and illogical at times but they do just about keep the game in balance.