rbcuk Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 Dont think ive had a 0-0 yet, defending is non existent, keep scoring and conceding from crosses, might just go back to FM12 till this is sorted, as getting silly the amount of times, players just walk past my defenders without them putting a tackle in Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edgar555 Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 I assume the inability of the game to remember the sorting order on squad screens is a known issue? If not I'm happy to upload a save. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Neil Brock Posted November 2, 2012 Author Administrators Share Posted November 2, 2012 Not sure, can you raise it in the GUI bugs forum for me? - http://community.sigames.com/forumdisplay.php/299-User-Interface Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edgar555 Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 Not sure, can you raise it in the GUI bugs forum for me? - http://community.sigames.com/forumdisplay.php/299-User-Interface For you Neil, of course I can. It'll have to wait til morning now, I'm off to bed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogs Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 I appreciate the demand of Sega to rush out titles prior to xmas for the annual sales drive but why on earth have they released this product. We as a group buy it for the online network game. The online game is unplayable with all transfers bar free transfers getting cancelled for all players. its a total game stopper and now obviously with the efforts to get the game out today the si team are off the weekend as this "priority" fix that has been highlighted in another thread is earmarked for next week. A total shambles and feel a bit conned. Preordered months ago and the product all beit looks lovely and polished is flawed to feck. Most bugged release i can remember. Nice one Sega Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
asdpoo Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 I just played 2 games on full match and there are way too many misplaced passes from throw-ins where the player has to knock it back to the throw-in taker. No pressure, no nothing, just shooting it into the stands. BSP players ain't that dumb. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brmaverick Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 Sigh... Ok, I'm officially frustrated. I've been hugely supportive of the promise in this match engine and that the kinks will get worked out quickly. I put 500+ hours into FM11, 800+ hours into FM12, but I've gotten to the point where FM13 is so frustrating that it's not fun. If it's not fun, why am I playing it? The thing that's really frustrating me is that I feel like I have to put hours of strategic research into beating the lowliest of low teams while using a club like Chelsea. The attacking AI is just as dumb as a bag of hammers and I'm having scoreless draws with feeder teams like Vitesse. Even when using very attacking formations and loading the team with incredible skilled players, the attackers have no imagination and continually make extremely poor decisions. Why do players continue endlessly with short pointless passes before ripping a shot right into a wall of players in the box? Why do strikers go on a run and then attempt a strike from 35 yards out when there are options available? Why is any kind of incisive passing so extremely rare in this game? Attackers seem to have no clue how to open up a defense. I continue to be hopeful of an improved match engine but I'm just not having any fun with this game right now. So frustrating as I want this game to be great! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFC_Jordi Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 Look who I found. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
molemenacer Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 Not sure, can you raise it in the GUI bugs forum for me? - http://community.sigames.com/forumdisplay.php/299-User-Interface Already been raised http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/324895-Squad-view-screen-changing Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Preveza Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 After reading the majority of posts in this thread, i have come to the decision I will not be buying FM13 until the bugs in the ME are fixed. Perhaps a hotfix? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sussex Hammer Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 After reading the majority of posts in this thread, i have come to the decision I will not be buying FM13 until the bugs in the ME are fixed. Perhaps a hotfix? Same every year though isn't it !! I wasn't going to buy it as to play it 100% I need to update my Windows XP to Windows 8 to get 4gb of Ram. That in turn means new processor, motherboard and graphics card which in turn menas new power source and fans. So a new bleeding PC to play a game! However I have bought the game because it nags me in the head to buy it but I never learn because but after like you reading these posts will probably not load it up until March after the last patch ! (He says half joking!!) ;-) To be fair though it's our own fault for always buying it on release day! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Messi22 Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 I'm sorry to say this but this game like it's direct predecessor is a complete joke.A fluke!At least it's ME that is.No decent defending,no decent attacking movement whatsoever.One cross and goal!!! If i had the ability to upload a video to justly represent what i'm saying(cause i can't thanks to my woeful internet connection) and you were able to watch what goals i have been conceding respectively you would be totally outraged.... You know in the previous FM one of the main problems was that you couldn't score a butload of goals just because the opposing team was defending massively in numbers.So any attempt to directly attack and score against a team like that was automatically out of the picture, unless you were Barca or something:pSo the next best thing you could is just let the ball flow outside their area and pray for an instant gap or a sudden side cross from one of your players,which btw was just a wishful thinking-the best cross percentage i ever had was 30% or something.That was last year.This year is completely the opposite!One cross and boom!Goal...Seriously, i'm starting to believe the goalkeepers role is purely cosmetic in this version:pTotally unrealistic...and the defenders seem to be more teammates with your opponents rather than adversaries.Unbelievable...! Honestly, i was hoping that this years version would be times better,but still SI managed to prove me wrong one more time. You know, we keep having the same discussion every year before and after the release over and over, about how much "playable" the game really is(especially after some updates) or even how much close to rl has gotten with the latest applied features and all,that we just don't see the bigger picture here.All we got is just an unfinished game filled with blatant and unforgivable flaws that makes it more unfuctional rather than slightly inoperable.That's the honest truth, nothing more nothing less! Moreover ,i don't know if you've realised this before, but everyone and i mean everyone including myself, is trying to rationalize the game's facile character,the game's successive unfinished state, as something usual in an extent, that we tend to even knowingly surpass it as something natural,because we have gotten used to it since we practically experience the very same situation every year!Imagine that!!The SI has finally managed to subliminaly install without our obvious consent an odd behaviour in our very own psyche which dictates that we will sit and eat the same c*** over and over again because it's freak***normal!?Do you believe it?Normally i would just simply pay no attention to it and keep playing the game but since i payed for the first time in my entire life just so that i can have a fully functional game at my disposal,i'm honestly annoyed that it turned not to be this case.You know, when you pay for something you expect it to be at least worth your money.But when you pay £30 and what you get in return is just a broken game you get a little haywire about it. Anyway,i'm not going to moan about the obvious, but i have a single question for the Sigames personel.If you're not willing to make for a single time a fully working FM game(excuse me ever:P) for the rest of eternity why do you even bother releasing them?As i see it,it is time to call it a day! EDIT:FM13??Heh i'll pass... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Messi22 Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 unintentional 2nd posting Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Preveza Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 I'm sorry to say this but this game like it's direct predecessor is a complete joke.A fluke!At least it's ME that is.No decent defending,no decent attacking movement whatsoever.One cross and goal!!! If i had the ability to upload a video to justly represent what i'm saying(cause i can't thanks to my woeful internet connection) and you were able to watch what goals i have been conceding respectively you would be totally outraged....You know in the previous FM one of the main problems was that you couldn't score a butload of goals just because the opposing team was defending massively in numbers.So any attempt to directly attack and score against a team like that was automatically out of the picture, unless you were Barca or something:pSo the next best thing you could is just let the ball flow outside their area and pray for an instant gap or a sudden side cross from one of your players,which btw was just a wishful thinking-the best cross percentage i ever had was 30% or something.That was last year.This year is completely the opposite!One cross and boom!Goal...Seriously, i'm starting to believe the goalkeepers role is purely cosmetic in this version:pTotally unrealistic...and the defenders seem to be more teammates with your opponents rather than adversaries.Unbelievable...! Honestly, i was hoping that this years version would be times better,but still SI managed to prove me wrong one more time. You know, we keep having the same discussion every year before and after the release over and over, about how much "playable" the game really is(especially after some updates) or even how much close to rl has gotten with the latest applied features and all,that we just don't see the bigger picture here.All we got is just an unfinished game filled with blatant and unforgivable flaws that makes it more unfuctional rather than slightly inoperable.That's the honest truth, nothing more nothing less! Moreover ,i don't know if you've realised this before, but everyone and i mean everyone including myself, is trying to rationalize the game's facile character,the game's successive unfinished state, as something usual in an extent, that we tend to even knowingly surpass it as something natural,because we have gotten used to it since we practically experience the very same situation every year!Imagine that!!The SI has finally managed to subliminaly install without our obvious consent an odd behaviour in our very own psyche which dictates that we will sit and eat the same c*** over and over again because it's freak***normal!?Do you believe it?Normally i would just simply pay no attention to it and keep playing the game but since i payed for the first time in my entire life just so that i can have a fully functional game at my disposal,i'm honestly annoyed that it turned not to be this case.You know, when you pay for something you expect it to be at least worth your money.But when you pay £30 and what you get in return is just a broken game you get a little haywire about it. Anyway,i'm not going to moan about the obvious, but i have a single question for the Sigames personel.If you're not willing to make for a single time a fully working FM game(excuse me ever:P) for the rest of eternity why do you even bother releasing them?As i see it,it is time to call it a day! EDIT:FM13??Heh i'll pass... Do you have to use so many emoticons? and b) please structure your essay correctly. It seems your approximately between the ages of 10-14. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTHerringbone Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 I'm sorry to say this but this game like it's direct predecessor is a complete joke.A fluke!At least it's ME that is.No decent defending,no decent attacking movement whatsoever.One cross and goal!!! If i had the ability to upload a video to justly represent what i'm saying(cause i can't thanks to my woeful internet connection) and you were able to watch what goals i have been conceding respectively you would be totally outraged....You know in the previous FM one of the main problems was that you couldn't score a butload of goals just because the opposing team was defending massively in numbers.So any attempt to directly attack and score against a team like that was automatically out of the picture, unless you were Barca or something:pSo the next best thing you could is just let the ball flow outside their area and pray for an instant gap or a sudden side cross from one of your players,which btw was just a wishful thinking-the best cross percentage i ever had was 30% or something.That was last year.This year is completely the opposite!One cross and boom!Goal...Seriously, i'm starting to believe the goalkeepers role is purely cosmetic in this version:pTotally unrealistic...and the defenders seem to be more teammates with your opponents rather than adversaries.Unbelievable...! Honestly, i was hoping that this years version would be times better,but still SI managed to prove me wrong one more time. You know, we keep having the same discussion every year before and after the release over and over, about how much "playable" the game really is(especially after some updates) or even how much close to rl has gotten with the latest applied features and all,that we just don't see the bigger picture here.All we got is just an unfinished game filled with blatant and unforgivable flaws that makes it more unfuctional rather than slightly inoperable.That's the honest truth, nothing more nothing less! Moreover ,i don't know if you've realised this before, but everyone and i mean everyone including myself, is trying to rationalize the game's facile character,the game's successive unfinished state, as something usual in an extent, that we tend to even knowingly surpass it as something natural,because we have gotten used to it since we practically experience the very same situation every year!Imagine that!!The SI has finally managed to subliminaly install without our obvious consent an odd behaviour in our very own psyche which dictates that we will sit and eat the same c*** over and over again because it's freak***normal!?Do you believe it?Normally i would just simply pay no attention to it and keep playing the game but since i payed for the first time in my entire life just so that i can have a fully functional game at my disposal,i'm honestly annoyed that it turned not to be this case.You know, when you pay for something you expect it to be at least worth your money.But when you pay £30 and what you get in return is just a broken game you get a little haywire about it. Anyway,i'm not going to moan about the obvious, but i have a single question for the Sigames personel.If you're not willing to make for a single time a fully working FM game(excuse me ever:P) for the rest of eternity why do you even bother releasing them?As i see it,it is time to call it a day! EDIT:FM13??Heh i'll pass... You type like my wife talks: fast, but not much content! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Messi22 Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 Really guys,thanks for your wholehearted responses.Fans of last FM i presume? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aiston Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 Still seems to be far too many passes for certain teams. Stoke this time: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alekos Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 I pretty agree that this Match Engine is one of the worst(maybe the worst) I have ever seen till today..I have already uploaded in the bugs forum some weird things happening with the ME but there are so many more I have encountered that I wonder how the testers missed all those issues..Each year I get the game at the day of release and this is the first year since 97 that I won't be buying the game soon unfortunately(I really want to play as soon as possible though)..I am not saying that the previous years at the day of release everything was perfect BUT, there were never soooo many ME problems that really ruin the game. A final question is why did you change the successful FM2012 ME to this one? It is supposed that you change something when you find or make something better and not the opposite am afraid.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoetermeer Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 Aside from the ME, I like a lot of the other additions. I especially like the DoF -- my initial reaction to hearing about it was "eh", but it's kind of nice to pick out players and add them to a list, essentially saying "director, go get this guy". One minor problem with the transfer targets list I've noticed is that the DoF seems only able to work on one player at a time -- he can't work on buying multiple players in parallel. I haven't even played enough with the ME to notice all of the other issues people have been raising, but there are a few minor things I don't like that are more related to the ME's GUI than anything else: 1) The player names are really hard to read for some reason. I don't know if making them black instead of white would help, but the text also seems to be in a bold font of some kind so the letters all run together. I didn't have any trouble reading names in FM12. 2) In FM12, I watched matches at one notch below the maximum speed. This is going to be a purely personal preference for everyone, but for me that was fast enough that I didn't waste my life watching games but not too fast to make the game impossible to follow. For some reason, in FM13 the notch below max is too slow, but max is too fast. 3) I like how you can sub without leaving the main ME screen, but I rarely end up making like-for-like substitutions (often I need to shuffle people around amongst positions after subbing). There isn't any way to do this (that I know of) without going to "advanced tactics". I can't decide whether the GUI (not in the ME, but in general) is much better than FM12 or not. I may just be so used to FM12's layout that FM13 is a difficult adjustment, so who knows. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTHerringbone Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 Really guys,thanks for your wholehearted responses.Fans of last FM i presume? My opinion of each game in the series is based within the context of the alternatives. Your post was pretty heavy with some rant-like stuff which was too much to take in. From a rational point of view, this release seems perfectly playable, and ultimately scaleable to improve and become the best yet. Sometimes you just need to take a step back and consider what your £30 gives you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyzer Soze Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 A final question is why did you change the successful FM2012 ME to this one?It is supposed that you change something when you find or make something better and not the opposite am afraid.. The previous ME reached the retirement days. It was the same ME from FM2010 with so many fixes and patches. It reach the point that there was nothing more that could be done. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brmaverick Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 Still seems to be far too many passes for certain teams. Stoke this time: That's just it. Every team plays pretty much the same way offensively. Short, purposeless tiki-taka passing until someone attempts a long bomb or a cross. Everyone was complaining about the poor defending AI during beta but I think the offensive AI is a far bigger problem long term. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMX Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 i just took Spartak Moscow job and ,correct me if i'm wrong, shouldn't they be playing CL football?..on club overview screen under continental comp. is just blank..like they do not play CL..what's up with that? its because you have to qualify for it first you will play a two legged tie to get into the competition Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGull8559 Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 Ummm, played the beta 61 hours no problem at all, played full release about 10 hours got this and just lost an hours worth of scouting,signing and results. any idea why this happened? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilT Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 FM is never perfect the day of release. We have this moaning and complaining about the game being "unfinished" and "unplayable" every single year. I'm fully aware what I'm getting when I hand my money over on release day. I'm getting a great game that will only get better over the coming months. This match engine in my opinion has the potential to far exceed any of it's predecessors, still needs a few tweaks, would like to see a little more zip in some of the attacking play, more dribbling and a little more crossing and defenders could look a little more intelligent but it's certainly not unplayable and this will be addressed with future patches just like it is every year. I don't always buy on release day but this year I'm glad I did. I think getting the fans of FM involved in the beta stage was a stroke of genius. I'm loving the game so far and I know that this game is going to keep me entertained over the next 12 months, 12 months of Football Manager for a bargain £29.99. That's a little over 8p a day. What else can you do tonight that costs 8p? It's a good point, well made. The only thing i can think of that is cheaper & more enjoyable is releasing my warm wet circles Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Preveza Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 Im curious to know if anyone has anything positive to mention about the ME.... And if anyone has actually started a career save and is enjoying it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peljam Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 So far I'm really enjoying FM13. My computer is old and patched up but it's actually running faster than FM12 did for me, and this is with more leagues and players. That was one of the big things I was worried about but the processing is smooth; both in terms of the fixtures and just general interface. I really like a lot of the new touches and tweaks (countries joining the EU, media additions/reactions, loan feedback, finance changes, player development, DoF potential etc.) and I can see them adding a lot of value to the long term games I prefer. In my first season I was in a relegation battle for the first time in a long while, and not only was it realistic but it was incredibly fun because of how immersive the experience was (and quick, and this is the full game). I think the ME is a big improvement too. That's not to say it doesn't have some rough edges or that it can't be improved. It definitely can be but that's the key thing. As far as I understand it the ME for FM12 had peaked, there was little room for improvement. With FM13's whilst there are things to iron out in the short term it's still an improvement and will only get better. Also the ME still (for me at least) reacts to appropriate tactical strategies. Just have a look a what everyone is doing in the tactics forum. You can approach your tactics according to football principles and gain results. It's not easy, it's not a click and win or a plug and play approach but it is rewarding. I've had to abandon tactics I've used in the past two versions - not because FM13 is bad but because the principles I built those tactics on aren't the same as the principles in the new improved ME. But by being patient, observant, looking at the wealth of advice and discussion in the tactics subforum, I've managed to build a new tactical approach that is appropriate for this ME and my current team. I'm not trying to suggest that a lot of complaints here can be answered by 'It's your tactics!' There are some relevant bugs and concerns being pointed out, but I have to admit I think there are somethings being reported here that are down to an individuals approach or expectations rather than a real issue. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimiJames Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 When is this game going to become playable??? The defenders dont defend, the goalkeepers are useless and to top it off after an hour and a half the game crash dumps mid match. Now i cant be bothered to go back and play that hour having to save every match just in the fear it will crash again, what a joke. I really hope everything gets fixed soon, i will not be buying FM until at least January from now. Very disappointed i fully believed that SI would of had the ME fixed for release as the beta was a complete joke and now it aint really that much better, Come on SI sort it out. James. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimiJames Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 Ummm, played the beta 61 hours no problem at all, played full release about 10 hours got this and just lost an hours worth of scouting,signing and results. any idea why this happened? That is exactly what i seen when my game crashed, im refusing to play until this is sorted!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilywhites11 Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 My biggest gripe however was with the through ball to the winger. It was literally right at my full back who'd tracked the run the whole way and then decided not to intercept. Obviously FM had just decided that they were going to score and that was that This. A thousand times this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwfan Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 Given the amount of forum angst, it is probably worth reposting this: Lots of things being posted relating to not being able to defend or attack are almost certainly down to users' tactics, not the ME. Such tactical issues illuminate the problems of coding the ME. There is a footballing logic that it and AI tactics access, which includes having a certain number of players moving between the lines (pushing up or dropping deep). If a user's tactic is very static and keeps players glued to their line, then they arguably should be struggling to get results, just as a real life team playing totally static football would. Historically, users employing static tactics have been able to "beat" the ME rather than the AI by keeping their defence back and channeling their passes through to a single, usually quick, player. The lack of collision detection in the ME resulted in this player being guaranteed a certain number of good chances every match. The only thing that mattered was how well he played. In reality, any team would be able to mark that player out of the game. The one dimensionality of the tactic then gets exposed, as it can't create another type of chance. A user with this type of tactic should be seeing bad football and getting frustrated. How do you know that is you? Generally, if you always kept both FBs on Defend duties, had at least one DLP, possibly two, and forwards only on Attack duties, then there is the strong possibility you were relying on the 'no collision' exploit to overpower the ME. If you had multiple DLPs and an FC in the FCC position, it was almost certainly you. Ultimately, if this type of tactic is struggling, then it is evidence that the ME has improved structurally. That doesn't mean that it doesn't have some bugs, such as defensive positioning on some free kicks, shooting too often from extreme angles, pressing not being aggressive enough etc. However, these are all secondary to the overall structure working far, far better. Structural improvement was the key focus of the two year ME redevelop, which required the introduction of player collision and ball physics. If you can't see quite how much this has improved the overall play of the ME, then you are missing the wood for the trees. Everything outside of this structural improvement is polishing. The ME might need burnishing in certain areas, but the underlying framework has improved significantly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Messi22 Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 My opinion of each game in the series is based within the context of the alternatives. Your post was pretty heavy with some rant-like stuff which was too much to take in. From a rational point of view, this release seems perfectly playable, and ultimately scaleable to improve and become the best yet. Sometimes you just need to take a step back and consider what your £30 gives you. You know the £30 should really give me something good without me having to think this overly through.So this is a little irrelevant.Unless,what you mean is that if i payed alternatively £10 more i could have had a better version of the game!:)But seriously,if you think this version is perfectly(notice i underline it) playable then this discussion is not worth made at all... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmolvik Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 The previous ME reached the retirement days. It was the same ME from FM2010 with so many fixes and patches. It reach the point that there was nothing more that could be done. Maybe, but I guess what people are most annoyed about is that they did anything.. Maybe they should have kept the old ME until they've fixed other parts of the game which have been flawed for a long time, like media, confidence etc. They don't need to invent the wheel every time. There are many small additions this year that I like a lot, but I would have accepted that this was it, if the rest of the time had been used to make a flawless game regarding features that already existed... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAV2 Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 Half a season into the full game and glad to see there is atleast some potential for greatness. My main gripe this year is that the ME is nowhere near perfect and i feel the Tactics Creator is dis-jointed from it so much that its a nuisance. I suggest people struggling with their teams to open up the classic way to make tactics and start from scratch. I did it and finally found a way to score reguarly and not have so much stupid long shots. The TC makes players believe they are playing a certain way when they are not. This is why people are getting so frustrated with the game and coming on here ranting. The ME being changed all the time has a direct affect on the TC and SI forget to realise this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwfan Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 Half a season into the full game and glad to see there is atleast some potential for greatness. My main gripe this year is that the ME is nowhere near perfect and i feel the Tactics Creator is dis-jointed from it so much that its a nuisance. I suggest people struggling with their teams to open up the classic way to make tactics and start from scratch. I did it and finally found a way to score reguarly and not have so much stupid long shots. The TC makes players believe they are playing a certain way when they are not. This is why people are getting so frustrated with the game and coming on here ranting. The ME being changed all the time has a direct affect on the TC and SI forget to realise this. You are close to being 100% wrong. The TC underpins the ME to a greater and greater extent. All you have to do to kill off long shots is employ the 'work ball into box' shout or used advanced instructions to stop players from trying them. I suspect that most rants about the ME are down to users having either very flawed classic tactics or overly complex TC tactics. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriss Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 Damn it I almost feel guilty for really enjoying it this year after reading all the pontifications from the annual knockers FMC is a brilliant addition for someone in my current circumstances and as I've actually bothered to keep up with the history of the ME and it's development I've no real concerns about it. It's taken those backward steps so that it can now be taken many steps further forward than any previous version. If you're really an FM lover you'll help with that process rather than typing walls of text that you think demonstrate your expertise, Cloughie himself said that football generates more hot air than Vesuvius, methinks FM surpasses both Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmolvik Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 Given the amount of forum angst, it is probably worth reposting this:Lots of things being posted relating to not being able to defend or attack are almost certainly down to users' tactics, not the ME. Such tactical issues illuminate the problems of coding the ME. There is a footballing logic that it and AI tactics access, which includes having a certain number of players moving between the lines (pushing up or dropping deep). If a user's tactic is very static and keeps players glued to their line, then they arguably should be struggling to get results, just as a real life team playing totally static football would. Historically, users employing static tactics have been able to "beat" the ME rather than the AI by keeping their defence back and channeling their passes through to a single, usually quick, player. The lack of collision detection in the ME resulted in this player being guaranteed a certain number of good chances every match. The only thing that mattered was how well he played. In reality, any team would be able to mark that player out of the game. The one dimensionality of the tactic then gets exposed, as it can't create another type of chance. A user with this type of tactic should be seeing bad football and getting frustrated. How do you know that is you? Generally, if you always kept both FBs on Defend duties, had at least one DLP, possibly two, and forwards only on Attack duties, then there is the strong possibility you were relying on the 'no collision' exploit to overpower the ME. If you had multiple DLPs and an FC in the FCC position, it was almost certainly you. Ultimately, if this type of tactic is struggling, then it is evidence that the ME has improved structurally. That doesn't mean that it doesn't have some bugs, such as defensive positioning on some free kicks, shooting too often from extreme angles, pressing not being aggressive enough etc. However, these are all secondary to the overall structure working far, far better. Structural improvement was the key focus of the two year ME redevelop, which required the introduction of player collision and ball physics. If you can't see quite how much this has improved the overall play of the ME, then you are missing the wood for the trees. Everything outside of this structural improvement is polishing. The ME might need burnishing in certain areas, but the underlying framework has improved significantly. So defenders that stop to run, free kicks/crosses been played into the box where no one is interested in going after the ball or players that aren't being pressured from their own half going forward to score, is tactics.. ? C'mon.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
donj Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 Got the game today and i am so dont with it. i have played manager for 20 years now but this is just so bad i give up back to 2012. 2013 fail Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svenc Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 Regarding converting to classic, I always held a theory that converting to classic means also limiting the AI teams to what has gone before, rather than the more robusts tactical concepts that were introduced to it via the TC. False or true? It's the same old drama every year, anyway. A lot of it might be put into perspective if people at least once watched a match in full and realize how much is cut during just highlights, in particular now that there are more actions squeezed into the thing with now the "full 90 minutes" being simed rather than the one-eight of a second simulation did previously. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimiJames Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 Got the game today and i am so dont with it. i have played manager for 20 years now but this is just so bad i give up back to 2012. 2013 fail I agree 2013 = FAIL The only reason i bought 13 for release was cause they refused to fix the 0-21 homegrown bug in 12, only to find out that 13 is worse. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwfan Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 So defenders that stop to run, free kicks/crosses been played into the box where no one is interested in going after the ball or players that aren't being pressured from their own half going forward to score, is tactics.. ? C'mon.. The further removed your tactics are from the logic underpinning the ME, the weirder things you will see. Some are bugs. Many are tactics related. The only way I can tell is by analysing your tactical set up. If you detail what you are doing, I can tell you what it will result in in the ME. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter G Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 Absolutely loving this game and I think this has been a great improvement. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwfan Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 Regarding converting to classic, I always held a theory that converting to classic means also limiting the AI teams to what has gone before, rather than the more robusts tactical concepts that were introduced to it via the TC. False or true? The AI always uses TC concepts. Your reverting to classic doesn't change anything the AI accesses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAV2 Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 Im not talking just about stopping the long shots. I really feel the default settings on the Tactics Creator dont produce what they imply they do. Why should a manager have to shout at his players during a game to get their style of play across? Surely he should be able to set up a tactic that they learn in training to play during a game. Shouts should not be needed at a start of a game to change the default settings the faulty TC creates for your team. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nadirhotel Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 Is anyone else having a problem with their team losing familiarity with your tactic, despite using the same tactic every match? When I set the formation and tactics, the team started out as competent. Now eight games later, their familiarity in all aspects is down to awkward. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwfan Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 Im not talking just about stopping the long shots. I really feel the default settings on the Tactics Creator dont produce what they imply they do. Why should a manager have to shout at his players during a game to get their style of play across? Surely he should be able to set up a tactic that they learn in training to play during a game. Shouts should not be needed at a start of a game to change the default settings the faulty TC creates for your team. You can set up pre-match shout combinations that ensure your team plays in a certain way. You don't have to shout them in-match. Pre-match shout combos are incredibly useful tools and if you aren't using them, you are not taking the best advantage of all the options the game offers. Don't think of them as additions to your tactic, but as part of your overall tactical philosophy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svenc Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 Don't think of them as additions to your tactic, but as part of your overall tactical philosophy. Or as passing/crossing/tempo etc. modifiers within the framework of your chosen strategy+philosphy, which always is the base to start from for the TC. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigfacemonkeyman Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 This post isn't direct feedback on the game, but steam's download servers have been great! I just downloaded the game in 40mins, while tethering Could you keep your perversions to yourself please. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chalky1989 Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 Game seems fine for me so far....but I have only played a little bit, just on the eve of my first premiership game. Thoughts so far. - I've not seen anything odd in the ME. The team looks to be playing how I told them to, with no shocking defensive errors. Having only played 2 games I can't really comment. - Prices for players, and wages, seem more realistic, reasonable. - Love the Director of Football role, made it so much easier to get rid of players I don't want. - Like the improved interaction with the board at the start of the game, and the whole initial discussion with the assistant - Like the new interface, don't care about the lack of a different skin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAV2 Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 You can set up pre-match shout combinations that ensure your team plays in a certain way. You don't have to shout them in-match. Pre-match shout combos are incredibly useful tools and if you aren't using them, you are not taking the best advantage of all the options the game offers. Don't think of them as additions to your tactic, but as part of your overall tactical philosophy. Why are they called shouts then? They should come under a new panel called 'style of play' so people can use them more effectively when creating their tactics. Without using shouts iv never had a successful full on (un slidered) TC tactic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.