Brexit

[Spurs08]

35 minutes ago, Smkx_Muldoon said:

Yeah, I'm currently Brackley in the Conference.

 

£0 transfer budget, £16k wage budget 

Yeah, they're never going to get permits. I'd immediately get them away from the senior squad so they don't interfere with the dynamics, then once they get fed up never playing try to offer them mutual terminations.

[Baodan]

Getting to see how a hopefully hard brexit will effect football in England, is the only good side to them leaving the EU. Will it make way for a new golden generation of English footballers, who actually gets the first-team experience needed to develop. Or will it completely destroy the Premier League and make it more into something like the Chinese Superleague. Maybe both or maybe neither, in any case it will be interesting especially for us FM players.

I find the Premier League boring to play in, but always nice to have running alongside what ever league I actually manage in. So far brexit has had little to no influence on my gaming experience, it is the reality and so I feel it should be in the game.

[Smkx_Muldoon]

On 05/03/2018 at 18:19, Spurs08 said:

Yeah, they're never going to get permits. I'd immediately get them away from the senior squad so they don't interfere with the dynamics, then once they get fed up never playing try to offer them mutual terminations.

I'll just let them sit in the U18's until I can release them

[simple_man67]

20 hours ago, Baodan said:

Getting to see how a hopefully hard brexit will effect football in England, is the only good side to them leaving the EU. Will it make way for a new golden generation of English footballers, who actually gets the first-team experience needed to develop. Or will it completely destroy the Premier League and make it more into something like the Chinese Superleague. Maybe both or maybe neither, in any case it will be interesting especially for us FM players.

I find the Premier League boring to play in, but always nice to have running alongside what ever league I actually manage in. So far brexit has had little to no influence on my gaming experience, it is the reality and so I feel it should be in the game.

It won't make a massive difference. Most academies import the foreign players family before the player needs a work permit, and find the parents jobs - work permits for Average Joe aren't that difficult to get; a friend of mine does it for a living and has issued some notable EPL players with their permits. By the time the youth player is old enough to need a work permit, he's been here long enough to have UK citizenship, so doesn't need a permit.

If anything, it impacts senior players like Salah, Mane, Firmino, Matip more. ALL non-UK citizens (players, coaches and staff) WILL need work permits when they renew contracts. Salah and Mane may fall foul of their nations rankings(?), Firmino may not have enough international appearances. Joel Matip definitely WON'T get a permit, UNLESS Liverpool renew his contract before March 2019 and they give him one long enough for him to gain UK citizenship - Firmino and Matip currently don't need permits because they're German/EU citizens, whether by residency or marriage (Coutinho is currently gaining Portuguese citizenship, because his wife is Portugese, which will mean he won't then be considered as a non-EU player by the La Liga rules).

Basically, the EU players become subject to the same rules as the non-EU ones, so we'll see less international fringe players.

I

[sergiobamos]

On 03/12/2017 at 22:55, jonnyfresh said:

just turn it off in the editor

We can turn it off??? !!!

[onionbag]

On 3/6/2018 at 05:36, Baodan said:

 in any case it will be interesting especially for us FM players.

 So far brexit has had little to no influence on my gaming experience, it is the reality and so I feel it should be in the game.

Same here and I'm mildly surprised by seemingly many folks wanting to remove it. I think it's cool, another layer of challenge to overcome, a shake-up of our traditional methods of squad building. But in the end, it really doesn't change things all that much.

I've had a normal Brexit and a hard Brexit. In the normal one, very little changed, it's nothing at all to fear. In the hard Brexit, it's a bit more restrictive, but still easily navigable. The main challenge would be for a Premier League club planning to heavily invest in promising foreign youth that have yet to feature for their senior national sides. In each case, players already in England are grandfathered, it's only for new signings, if I understand it all correctly.

So the upshot is, that Brexit will limit the player's ability to stock up on promising young foreigners, but only after Brexit has arrived. The post above saying that players like Salah might fall afoul of the new rules because of Egypt's coefficient doesn't apply due to the grandfathering right?, although perhaps there are Brexit variations that do not feature this 'special exemption' clause. I have not experienced every possible one. Is it an issue when contract renewal arrives, even if the player was specially exempted previously?

For me, it places a greater emphasis on my academy, and the players we produce. I like that. In past saves, it was always nice to get awesome newgens, but it really didn't matter since I also had a number of foreign youngsters. Now I NEED my academy to produce first-team quality, and I've focused facility improvements in this area as a result.

My current Brexit in my Port Vale save is a hard one, I think. It has the 17-player limit for registration leagues. But that still leaves 3/4 of your senior team open for non-UK players. Not too restrictive. Give the English lads a chance!

[simple_man67]

17 hours ago, onionbag said:

Same here and I'm mildly surprised by seemingly many folks wanting to remove it. I think it's cool, another layer of challenge to overcome, a shake-up of our traditional methods of squad building. But in the end, it really doesn't change things all that much.

I've had a normal Brexit and a hard Brexit. In the normal one, very little changed, it's nothing at all to fear. In the hard Brexit, it's a bit more restrictive, but still easily navigable. The main challenge would be for a Premier League club planning to heavily invest in promising foreign youth that have yet to feature for their senior national sides. In each case, players already in England are grandfathered, it's only for new signings, if I understand it all correctly.

So the upshot is, that Brexit will limit the player's ability to stock up on promising young foreigners, but only after Brexit has arrived. The post above saying that players like Salah might fall afoul of the new rules because of Egypt's coefficient doesn't apply due to the grandfathering right?, although perhaps there are Brexit variations that do not feature this 'special exemption' clause. I have not experienced every possible one. Is it an issue when contract renewal arrives, even if the player was specially exempted previously?

For me, it places a greater emphasis on my academy, and the players we produce. I like that. In past saves, it was always nice to get awesome newgens, but it really didn't matter since I also had a number of foreign youngsters. Now I NEED my academy to produce first-team quality, and I've focused facility improvements in this area as a result.

My current Brexit in my Port Vale save is a hard one, I think. It has the 17-player limit for registration leagues. But that still leaves 3/4 of your senior team open for non-UK players. Not too restrictive. Give the English lads a chance!

In fairness, I'm talking about the real world.

I think some of the 'work permit' stuff in the game may be league registration requirements, not actual work permit requirements.

As I said in my previous post, a friend of mine actually issues work permits for a living. Players have to renew their work permit every time they renew their contracts, not just when they come to the UK. They get asked the same questions as Average Joe - they have to prove there is a job waiting for them, they are on minimum wage or above and have to show proof.

The thing in the game about wages may just be erroneous, or it may be a requirement for EPL registration, but it definitely isn't a work permit requirement for the UK.

The 'grandfather' thing.... definitely cobblers. Where your grandfather comes from is only relevant for which country you want to play for. It makes no difference to whether you get a work permit or whether you are granted UK citizenship.

To be honest, I think the term 'work permit' is probably being confused for registration requirements, since the Home Office doesn't have a separate set of requirements for footballers- the requireents are the same whether you are street sweeper or footballer.

[Northernpilgrim]

I find it interesting that people believe that restricting foreign players will improve the English league and/or the English national team. There have been numerous examples cited above of players who will not be able to get permits, like Salah, Matip etc. The players who are really going to suffer will be the star players from small nations, Salah from Egypt being the best example. No-one is going to convince me that a 17 year old from Liverpool's reserves playing in their first team at Salah's expense is going to improve Liverpool or their chances of domestic or European success. Driving foreign talent away (as Brexit will inevitably do), will only lead to the aforementioned 17 year old Scouser not having a quality international player to learn from. Yes, there will be more English players in the Premier League, but they won't miraculously improve in quality compared to the youth currently in the PL. All that said, given that Brexit is happening, and that all the possible Brexits in FM are modelled on realistic possible real-life outcomes, SI have handled it as well as they could have. Not including it would have been wrong. 

[onionbag]

On 3/9/2018 at 05:00, simple_man67 said:

The 'grandfather' thing.... definitely cobblers. Where your grandfather comes from is only relevant for which country you want to play for. It makes no difference to whether you get a work permit or whether you are granted UK citizenship.

Perhaps that is where the term originates, but here I use 'grandfathering' as "a clause exempting certain classes of people or things from the requirements of a piece of legislation affecting their previous rights, privileges, or practices."

[simple_man67]

On 09/03/2018 at 12:11, Northernpilgrim said:

I find it interesting that people believe that restricting foreign players will improve the English league and/or the English national team. There have been numerous examples cited above of players who will not be able to get permits, like Salah, Matip etc. The players who are really going to suffer will be the star players from small nations, Salah from Egypt being the best example. No-one is going to convince me that a 17 year old from Liverpool's reserves playing in their first team at Salah's expense is going to improve Liverpool or their chances of domestic or European success. Driving foreign talent away (as Brexit will inevitably do), will only lead to the aforementioned 17 year old Scouser not having a quality international player to learn from. Yes, there will be more English players in the Premier League, but they won't miraculously improve in quality compared to the youth currently in the PL. All that said, given that Brexit is happening, and that all the possible Brexits in FM are modelled on realistic possible real-life outcomes, SI have handled it as well as they could have. Not including it would have been wrong. 

It actually won't make much of a difference to anything.

Like I said, the clubs with any sense will already have offered their players contracts that are long enough for them to gain UK citizenship. No player is affected until they renew their contract from March 2019. EU players can still come and go right up until March 29th (January 31st realistically) 2019. After then, they are subject to the same regs as non-EU players. What counts is not the country you represent, but where you hold citizenship. Contracts already in force at that point are not affected, so the smart people SHOULD have made sure the contracts were long enough that they either get their use out of the player and then 'bin 'em' or the player gets a UK Passport.

As far as Academies go, the majority of players in them have been their since before they were 13. AFAIK, they don't need a permit 'til they're 18 and required to pay Income Tax, by which time they've been here long enough that they're UK citizens (assuming paperwork got done).

'Brexit doesn't restrict foreign players. It restricts immigration and when you consider the number of foreign players compared to total immigration per year, it's a drop in the ocean - even if every professional club in the UK had three squads of 25 (which most don't) you'd still only be talking approx. 10,000 players including the Brits.

[Jakefog]

I've not had much of an issue with brexit, in my save I've got the 17 foreign player limit which is fine. The only thing that annoys me is the fact that any regen I sign (excluding English ones) don't join until they're 18 (whereas previously players from the EU would come before turning 18) because I can't train them how I want to in that period of time.

One thing I've been wondering, is it possible for the UK to rejoin the EU later down the line? Has anyone experienced that?

[paganizer]

Wish I had researched this ****. Seems like I got a hard brexit and since i always play with young talent, that has ruined my save... Wonder if they fixed the bugged danish league otherwise this FM will have been a massive fail for me. Constant crashing, bugged danish league and inability to play with young foreign talents in england.. Yay.

[Spurs08]

1 hour ago, paganizer said:

Wish I had researched this ****. Seems like I got a hard brexit and since i always play with young talent, that has ruined my save... Wonder if they fixed the bugged danish league otherwise this FM will have been a massive fail for me. Constant crashing, bugged danish league and inability to play with young foreign talents in england.. Yay.

You can still play with young talent, it just needs to be British or Irish. 

[Bevan11]

Previous versions of FM included countries which were scheduled to join the EU (e.g. Montenegro) after the FM season start date.

EU teams then got to sign these players as EU citizens.

So there's a precedent for including these kinds of future changes in FM.

[paganizer]

18 hours ago, paganizer said:

Wish I had researched this ****. Seems like I got a hard brexit and since i always play with young talent, that has ruined my save... Wonder if they fixed the bugged danish league otherwise this FM will have been a massive fail for me. Constant crashing, bugged danish league and inability to play with young foreign talents in england.. Yay.

Turns out that despite my newest signing from denmark didn't get a work permit, I had no issues playing him in a league match... nice bug  (?) 

[TioPatinhax]

On 03/12/2017 at 19:38, ikendz said:

 ~15 non-UK players allowed in the 25 that got in the squad registration,

I reckon this is the best case scenario in case of a brexit yes? These non UK players wouldnt need work permit, right?

[michaeltmurrayuk]

1 hour ago, TioPatinhax said:

I reckon this is the best case scenario in case of a brexit yes? These non UK players wouldnt need work permit, right?

Yes if you get the Squad Registration rules then players don't need a Work Permit, though as it is league based other leagues in the UK may still use Work Permits.

[Jakarooney]

I hope none of the people who don’t like it being in the game voted for brexit.

[Siven]

So is the type of brexit determined at the start of the save game? or when the notification shows up ingame?

[FrazT]

It is random and set at the start of a new save.

[Shamwoww]

My issue is that the home-grown players I have are also being treated as foreign, meaning I can't use a full 25-man squad.

Jiri Blazek, Rikardo Bardhi and Salvador Gonçalo were all brought to the club as <18 year olds and now are classified as home grown, but they're also foreign.

Am I missing something obvious or is this a bug?

[HUNT3R]

29 minutes ago, Shamwoww said:

My issue is that the home-grown players I have are also being treated as foreign, meaning I can't use a full 25-man squad.

Jiri Blazek, Rikardo Bardhi and Salvador Gonçalo were all brought to the club as <18 year olds and now are classified as home grown, but they're also foreign.

Am I missing something obvious or is this a bug?

They will be foreign because of their Nationality. If they stay in England long enough and if they take up citizenship, then they'll lose the foreign tag.

[Hovis Dexter]

On 14/01/2018 at 03:13, s0ni42 said:

Can someone please help a newb out on how to manipulate this? I don’t see the setting options listed above in this thread? Very lost.

Luke Garner has produced an excellent video on YouTube. He's done it with FM17 but it works exactly the same in FM18. Look here ...

 

[Shamwoww]

2 hours ago, HUNT3R said:

They will be foreign because of their Nationality. If they stay in England long enough and if they take up citizenship, then they'll lose the foreign tag.

I knew it was something obvious 

[Fox990]

I've had a weird thing on my FM18 game. Brexit happened and the rule was non-British players needed a work permit...those already there would automatically get them. So in theory signing non-Brits should be harder. And sure, it is, I've had players turned down for work permits. But here's the thing, even if the WP is rejected, if I sign them anyway I can still register them and play them...so basically nothing has changed. Anyone else had this?

[HUNT3R]

5 minutes ago, Fox990 said:

I've had a weird thing on my FM18 game. Brexit happened and the rule was non-British players needed a work permit...those already there would automatically get them. So in theory signing non-Brits should be harder. And sure, it is, I've had players turned down for work permits. But here's the thing, even if the WP is rejected, if I sign them anyway I can still register them and play them...so basically nothing has changed. Anyone else had this?

A number of people have had this. It seems to be an issue with one of the Brexit scenarios.

[..Valhalla..]

On ‎03‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 19:38, ikendz said:

Every player now has to play a certain amount of games for their national squad and stuff to get the work permit. That literally makes the Premier League unplayable. Fix it. It's a disaster for Premier League.

This is honestly my dream Brexit Scenario in-game and IRL. 

[Zardoz]

In my current FM 17 save I had a smooth Brexit, I think. I left UK before it was effective and I am now in Ireland. I pinned my former skipper from my English team for about 20k € p. a. and this caused no problems in Ireland. The most interesting thing was that he changed his citizenship from UK to Irish after a year. Another Englishman in my team did the same. I do nto think that this so easy in Germany e. g.  (I am from Germany).

Irleand steals Englishmen ... 

 

[borivoje213]

My first experience of hard brexit in a save.  Work permits required for any non-uk and ireland player.  It does a certain act to a certain organ of the body.

Although it's quite nice having a near 100% rating to national player bias for a change.  I didn't buy many english players before due to the expense. 

[FrazT]

3 hours ago, borivoje213 said:

My first experience of hard brexit in a save.  Work permits required for any non-uk and ireland player.  It does a certain act to a certain organ of the body.

Although it's quite nice having a near 100% rating to national player bias for a change.  I didn't buy many english players before due to the expense. 

If you struggle to bring through quality youths from your own academy, a hard brexit does make it very difficult to recruit youngsters from EU countries that you would have done before.

[borivoje213]

7 minutes ago, FrazT said:

If you struggle to bring through quality youths from your own academy, a hard brexit does make it very difficult to recruit youngsters from EU countries that you would have done before.

It does indeed.  I'm liking that it's forcing me to take a different approach than previous versions and focusing far more on my own academy.  I've found player loyalty has to be higher and trying to give people more of a chance as the team progresses. doing more with less.

I found that having players at the same level or a league below the current competition level of the club can work really well as they can progress.  I ended up taking 3 players with me from league 2 to the prem.  One of them Kenji Gorre, I gave him a break for an entire year thinking he wasn't cut out for the championship, literally not one competitive appearance. In my 2nd season in the championship threw him back in and he helped me to promotion with something like 10 goals and 19 assists, he was my player of the season.  I couldn't believe it, my backroom staff are still convinced he's a league 2 winger! absolute madness.

[FrazT]

You are correct that having hard brexit can and does concentrate the mind in looking harder at your own youth- mind you, the prices you are quoted to buy hot prospects from England are eye-watering.

[Guest]

If you’re buying them in they aren’t really your youth players that you’re developing.

[FrazT]

2 hours ago, Barside said:

If you’re buying them in they aren’t really your youth players that you’re developing.

Agreed, but one of the issues with playing in a small country is if you are successful and start to perform on the European stage, none of the youths in the current system are good enough for the local league, far less anything bigger

[Guest]

My inner LLaMa has just had a panic attack.

[chucklehead]

So many mixed opinions on how Brexit affects FM. I really hope that for this coming FM that either it's optional, you can control the outcome, or that you find out what is going to be the 'Brexit outcome' much earlier, ideally as the save starts.

I've found it absolutely baffling that a potentially game changing decision is made randomly by the game, at the start of the game, but you don't find out what it is until a few years in

[Guest]

I doubt that SI will add it as pre-start option as they would have done that for that for FM18 after all the feedback from 17.

[Snorks]

On 09/03/2018 at 23:00, simple_man67 said:

 

The 'grandfather' thing.... definitely cobblers. Where your grandfather comes from is only relevant for which country you want to play for. It makes no difference to whether you get a work permit or whether you are granted UK citizenship.

To be honest, I think the term 'work permit' is probably being confused for registration requirements, since the Home Office doesn't have a separate set of requirements for footballers- the requireents are the same whether you are street sweeper or footballer.

Yeah, the Work Permit thing is the same for everyone, but in some fields I think it depends on the need for workers. AS there is no 'need' for footballers in the UK, I believe their are standards the Home Office expects to be met - as in: "We have enough footballers in this country, what's so special about you that means we should issue a work permit?" "Well, I am a t a standard where I represent my country, have been valued at $xx and will improve the quality of the industry in your country"

Same as any other industry, but few 'value' their employees the same way. 

I also think the 'Grandfather thing' is real for many countries - NZ for example - although not necessarily a generational thing, the term Grandfathered is used to denote a familial connection to the country - there are kids here, my daughter's friends, planning to go to London and work will have no WP issues because they have a British passport, or Dad has one. Never set foot in the country in their lives.

[Rémy Leroux]

I am in second season of my another Man Utd save. Knowing Brexit coming I decided to make 75% of the squad with English players. This led me to promote Ro-Shaun Williams, buy J. Sancho, Sessegnon, take Tuanzebe out of loan, sold Mata, Matic, Fella, Darmian, Valencia. Have also two god-like midfielders from youth academy (199 and 169 PA with good attributes round). However - I did not receive any information that UK is leaving EU nor in first nor in second season. Does it mean I will not have Brexit at all or it will be just decided later? What is funny, Qatar is not World Cup host anymore but.... Morocco. In previous saves it was often Australia and then Brexit comes

[KingCanary]

I got the 'all EU players need work permits' brexit in FM17 and it is pretty frustrating. Has led to me focusing my scouting on players playing regularly for smaller nations (my top scorer is an Iranian for instance).

[JordanMilly]

12 hours ago, Rémy Leroux said:

I am in second season of my another Man Utd save. Knowing Brexit coming I decided to make 75% of the squad with English players. This led me to promote Ro-Shaun Williams, buy J. Sancho, Sessegnon, take Tuanzebe out of loan, sold Mata, Matic, Fella, Darmian, Valencia. Have also two god-like midfielders from youth academy (199 and 169 PA with good attributes round). However - I did not receive any information that UK is leaving EU nor in first nor in second season. Does it mean I will not have Brexit at all or it will be just decided later? 

It'll just be decided later, but I believe the later it is left, the greater the chance of it being a hard Brexit (or, at least, that is what I have encountered).

[Rémy Leroux]

Great - Hard Brexit is something I am aiming for. I will update if announcing will happen. So far still no message that UK decided to left. Is it possible to have no Brexit?

[BMNJohn]

2 hours ago, Rémy Leroux said:

Great - Hard Brexit is something I am aiming for.

It's easier to just edit the league/nations rules if you want the harshest Brexit possible instead of rerolling your save all the time. That's what I did. You just won't get the nice, neat message about Brexit happening, but the effect will be the same: work permits for everyone, Irish players considered as foreigners to other UK countries, and no Bosman rule.

2 hours ago, Rémy Leroux said:

Is it possible to have no Brexit?

Yes, albeit very improbable. It's also possible that Brexit happens but with no consequences and no rule changes.

[Platinum]

On 22/09/2018 at 09:59, chucklehead said:

So many mixed opinions on how Brexit affects FM. I really hope that for this coming FM that either it's optional, you can control the outcome, or that you find out what is going to be the 'Brexit outcome' much earlier, ideally as the save starts.

I've found it absolutely baffling that a potentially game changing decision is made randomly by the game, at the start of the game, but you don't find out what it is until a few years in

I completely agree with this

[Snorks]

On 22/09/2018 at 20:59, chucklehead said:

So many mixed opinions on how Brexit affects FM. I really hope that for this coming FM that either it's optional, you can control the outcome, or that you find out what is going to be the 'Brexit outcome' much earlier, ideally as the save starts.

I've found it absolutely baffling that a potentially game changing decision is made randomly by the game, at the start of the game, but you don't find out what it is until a few years in

So many mixed opinions on how Brexit affects FM  THE UK. I really hope that for this coming FM   UK that either it's optional, you can control the outcome, or that you find out what is going to be the 'Brexit outcome' much earlier, ideally as the save starts.

I've found it absolutely baffling that a potentially game  UK changing decision is made randomly by the game, at the start of the game, but you don't find out what it is until a few years in

----------------------------------------------------------------

Pretty much sums it up - who says FM doesn't simulate real life?

[..Valhalla..]

On ‎22‎/‎09‎/‎2018 at 09:59, chucklehead said:

So many mixed opinions on how Brexit affects FM. I really hope that for this coming FM that either it's optional, you can control the outcome, or that you find out what is going to be the 'Brexit outcome' much earlier, ideally as the save starts.

I've found it absolutely baffling that a potentially game changing decision is made randomly by the game, at the start of the game, but you don't find out what it is until a few years in

I also agree. Would be nice to be able to set it as an option when creating a new save. 

[Rémy Leroux]

On 24/09/2018 at 20:30, JordanMillward_1 said:

It'll just be decided later, but I believe the later it is left, the greater the chance of it being a hard Brexit (or, at least, that is what I have encountered).

 

Finally I got message that UK decided to left EU. Other details will be provided later. It is very enigmatic so you can be right it is hard Brexit coming.

 

EDIT: Another message with rules since new season. I got hard Brexit and work permits needed both for new and for contract renewals.

[borivoje213]

Mine was weird.  I've still been able to sign foreigners of all kinds (EU and Non-EU) and despite failing WP applications, they're still allowed to play for me without any restriction.  I think it's a little broken.

Before the brexit any foreign player that failed WP app was ineligible to play, now they can all play.  I just can't renew their contract unless their WPs are granted.

Easy way around that though...sign them on an 5 year deal with a optional contract extension and boom, got them for years until they're likely to have played enough International games or earned a passport.  Bit of a cheat really but you can only work with what you're given.