Crucial Attributes for Head of Youth Development

[Alfie103]

Hello everyone,

Have started a new game as Tottenham and want to sign the best Head of Youth Development possible but I am not sure what the crucial things I should be looking for are.

I have read that Personality, playing style and mentality and high 'managing youngsters' and 'judging youth potential' attributes are important but I am not sure what are the most important things. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[ilkork]

Check this:
http://fminside.net/guides/head-of-youth-on-fm/
This also (there was a useful conversation):
https://community.sigames.com/topic/375721-head-of-youth-development-who-is-better/

 

[BoxToBox]

Nothing is as important as personality and determination, after that reputation and training attributes if you need an extra hand to pitch in on the training ground.

[mark1985]

3 minutes ago, BoxToBox said:

Nothing is as important as personality and determination, after that reputation and training attributes if you need an extra hand to pitch in on the training ground.

Second this but would add the most important attributes for me are:

 

Judging potential

Judging ability

Working with youngsters

[BoxToBox]

1 hour ago, mark1985 said:

Second this but would add the most important attributes for me are:

 

Judging potential

Judging ability

Working with youngsters

They're nice to have, but unimportant unless you need him on the training pitch with the youngsters in the case of working with youngsters, or providing reports, with the judging attributes.

[mark1985]

True. I kind of use mine as a glorified scout and youth coach (as useful way of adding an extra coach in there).

[BoxToBox]

58 minutes ago, mark1985 said:

True. I kind of use mine as a glorified scout and youth coach (as useful way of adding an extra coach in there).

Definitely! It's very handy to have all hands on deck be able to cover as many roles as possible, especially at smaller clubs. I've often have had guys that were scouts and coaches at the same time, and a HOYD given scouting assignments as well as coaching the youths.

[mark1985]

25 minutes ago, BoxToBox said:

Definitely! It's very handy to have all hands on deck be able to cover as many roles as possible, especially at smaller clubs. I've often have had guys that were scouts and coaches at the same time, and a HOYD given scouting assignments as well as coaching the youths.

Exactly. I usually manage smaller clubs were budgets are tight so a HOYD who can also coach/scout a bit covers a few bases. When searching for my HOYD I look at his personality and determination first off and then at the attributes I mentioned if I'm choosing between a few. If he's training the youth prospects as well as picking them, then all the better  and if he has good scouting abilities, I can trust him more when he decides who he wants to offer youth contracts to.

[Steel Eagle]

I'm managing in an average league at the moment, my hoyd has fairly determined personality.  17 determination, 6 working with youngsters, 10 jpa, 12 jpp.

I can sign Dirk Kuyt, who is a model professional, 18 determination, 17 working with youngsters, but only 2 jpa, 2 jpp.  I don't need either for the coaching attributes, they are simply for the role of bringing the youngsters to the club, my issue is do the 2 for jpa and jpp affect youth intakes at all? 

[ilkork]

8 minutes ago, Steel Eagle said:

my issue is do the 2 for jpa and jpp affect youth intakes at all? 

Well, a HoYD will watch matches of youngsters and then decide which ones are the best to bring in based on his JA/JP.
So...

That's called logic, but I don't know if it's coded that way ingame.

Edited April 17, 2017 by ilkork

[herne79]

26 minutes ago, Steel Eagle said:

I'm managing in an average league at the moment, my hoyd has fairly determined personality.  17 determination, 6 working with youngsters, 10 jpa, 12 jpp.

I can sign Dirk Kuyt, who is a model professional, 18 determination, 17 working with youngsters, but only 2 jpa, 2 jpp.  I don't need either for the coaching attributes, they are simply for the role of bringing the youngsters to the club, my issue is do the 2 for jpa and jpp affect youth intakes at all? 

 

18 minutes ago, ilkork said:

Well, a HoYD will watch matches of youngsters and then decide which ones are the best to bring in based on his JA/JP.
So...

That's called logic, but I don't know if it's coded that way ingame.

Think of your annual Youth Intake day in this way - these young "newgen" players are already at your club in U11/U12/U15 etc squads.  You just don't see them because of their age.  Eventually they graduate into your U18s squad when they actually appear in game as players.

Your rating for Youth Recruitment and Junior Coaching governs the ability and potential that these newgens have.

The main influences that your HOYD has on newgens are their personalities and natural playing positions.

JPA/JPP is mainly used by a HOYD for continuous assessment of your newgens to report on their progress, and for their own scouting ability when looking at young players outside of the club.

[ilkork]

25 minutes ago, herne79 said:

 

Think of your annual Youth Intake day in this way - these young "newgen" players are already at your club in U11/U12/U15 etc squads.  You just don't see them because of their age.  Eventually they graduate into your U18s squad when they actually appear in game as players.

Your rating for Youth Recruitment and Junior Coaching governs the ability and potential that these newgens have.

The main influences that your HOYD has on newgens are their personalities and natural playing positions.

JPA/JPP is mainly used by a HOYD for continuous assessment of your newgens to report on their progress, and for their own scouting ability when looking at young players outside of the club.

I feel like an idiot now, even though i knew about junior coaching and youth recruitment.
Somehow forgot about, it's like that information was never in my mind .

Wasn't sure about the HoYD's "main influences" though, so, thank you for that.

[Harpoon76]

Bit of thread re-use - is Resolute better, the same or worse than Professional?

Just wondering if I should renew the contract for my current HOYD (Professional):

Or try to nab somebody else, eg Southampton's (Resolute)

[Spurs08]

24 minutes ago, Harpoon76 said:

Bit of thread re-use - is Resolute better, the same or worse than Professional?

Just wondering if I should renew the contract for my current HOYD (Professional):

Or try to nab somebody else, eg Southampton's (Resolute)

Professional is better. It means a Professionalism attribute on 18-19, whereas Resolute can be anything from 15 to 20.

[herne79]

21 minutes ago, Spurs08 said:

Professional is better. It means a Professionalism attribute on 18-19, whereas Resolute can be anything from 15 to 20.

Yes and no .

Whilst you may be guaranteed slightly higher Professionalism with a "Professional" personality, there's a little more to it than just this one attribute.

If "Resolute" you will have a very high level of Determination (15+) as well has high levels of Professionalism, which is very desirable during matches.  Someone with a "Professional" personality may not have this.

If they have a Professional personality as well as high Determination then great.  But if they have low Determination I'd favour the Resolute personality.

Also, as the HOYD is part of the coaching staff, decent coaching attributes are useful as well.

[Harpoon76]

So would a Model Professional but with poor JPA/JPP and coaching be any use?

I can carry him as a coach if it means better regens...

[alanschu14]

Looks like in this case "Professional" will actually override "Resolute?"

Looks like the "Professional" meets the criteria with 17 determination as well.

[herne79]

One other thing to add.  Even if your HOYD doesn't have a "desirable" personality, and/or if a newgen doesn't get given such a personality when he appears, it's not the end of the world because you can always tutor young players to try to give them better personalities.

[Kick Wilstra]

- Personally in order of importence I look for:

1. Personality (including determination)

2. Preferred formation

3. JPP and WWY

4. JPA, Man Management, motivating and ddiscipline

5. Other coaching attributes.

6. Scouting knowledge, reputation and whether they have a history with the club.

[talhak]

On 13/07/2017 at 16:42, Seb Wassell said:

A Head of Youth Development will mainly influence the personalities of your newgens. In some cases he will affect the newgen template selected, i.e. positions and attribute spreads.

Junior Coaching determines the CA of newgens entering your team.

Youth Recruitment determines the PA of newgens entering your team.

- Both of the above are relative to other factors, such as the nation's youth rating. 

Youth Facilities helps determine the rate of CA gain for the youth teams.

Training Facilities helps determine the rate of CA gain for the senior teams.

Very useful information about the insights of youth development. Thanks @Seb Wassell ! 

[pheelf]

This is exactly the kind of thing which drives people absolutely crazy about how the game works. In game the most important attributes highlighted for the HoYD are Working with Youngsters, JPP & JPA but you've all just said that those attributes are largely irrelevant when it comes to a HoYD fulfilling their key duty of the youth intake and only really help their secondary duties should you want them to scout youngsters already at the club or coach them. Is it any wonder people get confused? Understandably, it should be up to the player to discover new things about the game and how it works as they go along as that adds to the challenge but that shouldn't be the case for fundamentals like this where the in-game information is actually misleading.

[Seb Wassell]

2 hours ago, pheelf said:

This is exactly the kind of thing which drives people absolutely crazy about how the game works. In game the most important attributes highlighted for the HoYD are Working with Youngsters, JPP & JPA but you've all just said that those attributes are largely irrelevant when it comes to a HoYD fulfilling their key duty of the youth intake and only really help their secondary duties should you want them to scout youngsters already at the club or coach them. Is it any wonder people get confused? Understandably, it should be up to the player to discover new things about the game and how it works as they go along as that adds to the challenge but that shouldn't be the case for fundamentals like this where the in-game information is actually misleading.

Will take a look into this and whether it could be better represented in game for future versions.

[Seb Wassell]

15 hours ago, Analog said:

JPA pretty low though, IMO.  I'd much rather have a Professional or Resolute personality with 15-20 JPA than Model Pro with 5.  Theoretically this is the guy out there scanning your youth system for who to bring into the club, so he needs to be accurate when choosing talents... at least that's the theory.  I know not everything in FM works logically.  I hired Kristjaan Speakman and he's been brilliant so far.

1. Personality
2. JPA/WWY
3. DET
4. Coaching Styles

Would actually like to hear an official response as to how much coaching styles actually affect youth recruitment or any in-game factors.  I've read online that if for example you have a HoYD who prefers a 4-3-3 (DM) then you are more likely to recruit youths in those positions, and likewise when it comes to their pressing and playing styles.  Any word on that? @Seb Wassell or other staff?

From my above post: A Head of Youth Development will mainly influence the personalities of your newgens. In some cases he will affect the newgen template selected, i.e. positions and attribute spreads.

To elaborate his preferences will on occasion influence the "type" of player coming through. For example there are many different styles of MC, if your HoYD favours a "Technical" Coaching Style you are more likely to produce those proficient in the technical side of the game. There are many factors at play when "styling" a newgen (regardless of CA/PA); we have numerous templates from which newgens are created for every position. These templates are based on several factors, such as the aforementioned HoYD preferences, but more significantly factors like nationality (a Brazilian full-back is much more likely to be of an attacking style than an Italian one for example) and so on. Obviously this is all mixed in with a heavy dose of (weighted) random to ensure variety.

[Harpoon76]

Thank you Seb - In your two posts I've learnt far more about a good HoYD than reading numerous 3rd party websites.  Shame such good information isn't in any official documentation.  Or have I just not spotted it?

[craigd84]

@Seb Wassell

 

I have noticed ALOAD of regen CM's who have set pieces as there main attributes so i take it that is a template... the problem is, is that it seems to be one of the most popular.

[jusinho9]

I am a bit baffled by reading this thread.

44 minutes ago, Harpoon76 said:

Thank you Seb - In your two posts I've learnt far more about a good HoYD than reading numerous 3rd party websites.  Shame such good information isn't in any official documentation.  Or have I just not spotted it?

No, you didnt miss it, its just not there. Thats why the numerous 3rd party websites give you totally contrary information.

What Seb wrote totally changes the approach you should evaluate the HoYD. I will fire mine right away.

 

I totally agree with what @pheelf said; it makes you also wonder in which other areas there might be such misconceptions.

 

I have one additional question @Seb Wassell, though: Does the reputation of the HoYD matter at all? From what you wrote i gauge its not the case?

 

 

Btw.: I like that you can focus more on the playing style/preferences of the HoYD now.

 

 

[craigd84]

I use Phil Cannon and he has brought me some stellar players in at Ajax in 5 years.

[Seb Wassell]

49 minutes ago, craigd84 said:

@Seb Wassell

 

I have noticed ALOAD of regen CM's who have set pieces as there main attributes so i take it that is a template... the problem is, is that it seems to be one of the most popular.

An overly high number of newgens with high set piece attributes is not something I am aware of, nor have I seen it reported here. If you've some data to evidence that please do get it posted in our bugs forum and we'll take a look into it for you.

The templates are more a style of player rather than "will have set pieces highest", so this may be down to training or simply luck rather than the newgen generation system. In research terms set piece attributes are also quite lightly weighed (we use these weightings too) which means they are unlikely to tilt the scales too far either way.

[craigd84]

What im getting at is im seeing alot of players coming through with their main focus on set pieces and technique so like 10+ on a stat and the rest under that. I will try get some screen shots for you

[herne79]

3 hours ago, Harpoon76 said:

Thank you Seb - In your two posts I've learnt far more about a good HoYD than reading numerous 3rd party websites.  Shame such good information isn't in any official documentation.  Or have I just not spotted it?

 

2 hours ago, jusinho9 said:

I am a bit baffled by reading this thread.

No, you didnt miss it, its just not there. Thats why the numerous 3rd party websites give you totally contrary information.

 

You have missed it, it's mentioned in stickies in the Tactics & Training forum.

However, it's a bit buried inside threads that covers all sorts of other issues as well, so something I should add to the FAQs in that forum .

@Seb Wassell fyi.

[ssrider]

4 hours ago, craigd84 said:

I use Phil Cannon and he has brought me some stellar players in at Ajax in 5 years.

Ive used Phil as well for my 3 years at Monaco with great intakes.  But I'm just curious if theyre that good because of my academy and junior coaching or because of Phil?

[Spurs08]

On 13/07/2017 at 13:41, herne79 said:

Yes and no .

Whilst you may be guaranteed slightly higher Professionalism with a "Professional" personality, there's a little more to it than just this one attribute.

If "Resolute" you will have a very high level of Determination (15+) as well has high levels of Professionalism, which is very desirable during matches.  Someone with a "Professional" personality may not have this.

If they have a Professional personality as well as high Determination then great.  But if they have low Determination I'd favour the Resolute personality.

Also, as the HOYD is part of the coaching staff, decent coaching attributes are useful as well.

Ah, that's true. I'm used to not really considering it since Determination is visible anyway, but I would take that attribute into account

[Seb Wassell]

Another piece of information on this one for you. Your youth staff will also slightly influence the PA of your 'best' or extreme newgens. All of your youth staff act in this way, but the HoYD's impact is twice that of other youth coaches. This will not affect every newgen nor the average newgen but rather only the "star" or "freak" newgens that may occasionally come through the system. It is also important to note that this is only one part of a larger equation when it comes to star/freak newgen PA.

[Seb Wassell]

5 minutes ago, Analog said:

What are the desirable attributes in those staff to maximize the PA of said players?  Thanks for all of the information you've provided, btw.  

Judging Player Potential and Working With Youngsters.

I would like to stress that 20 & 20 here does not come close to guaranteeing maximising those player's possible PAs though; there are several factors involved along with a healthy slice of luck.

[alanschu14]

That's really interesting though! Means that for my youth coaches it's still pretty important for them to have good JA/JP too.  Interesting to know.

[private pyle]

Thanks for all the info above, I had no idea that the head of youth personality had an effect on the youth newgens as this is not highlighted when you click on the head of youth development page.

The key stats that are highlighted are JPA, JPP & working with youngsters so it may be worthwhile adding personality for 2018 si 

 

 

 

[wearesporting]

Well I'm off to sack my guy too upon this information. I sacrificed personality for good JPA and JPP. Where's that Raul fella! 

[dkouv]

Hi @Seb Wassell, fascinating info - thanks very much.

One more question: if I ask my DoF or U18 Manager to select my youth intakes, will their personality and formation preference have the same influence as the HOYD? Reason is, I found a DOF who has much better determination than my current HOYD, and a better preferred formation, was wondering whether he'll make the difference.

[Seb Wassell]

12 hours ago, dkouv said:

Hi @Seb Wassell, fascinating info - thanks very much.

One more question: if I ask my DoF or U18 Manager to select my youth intakes, will their personality and formation preference have the same influence as the HOYD? Reason is, I found a DOF who has much better determination than my current HOYD, and a better preferred formation, was wondering whether he'll make the difference.

If you select someone else to be responsible for the youth intake they will fulfil the HoYD's (default) role.

[dkouv]

6 hours ago, Seb Wassell said:

If you select someone else to be responsible for the youth intake they will fulfil the HoYD's (default) role.

Great, thanks for the quick response; this is what I was hoping to hear

[Bigpapa42]

Random question/situation but it sorta relates. My current save in Mexico with Pumas, who have a really strong youth set up. Between some first day newgens (Add Players to Active Clubs ticked) and two youth intakes, the club has produced about 8 newgens of high potential (4 star plus, 150+ PA). Of those 8, 3 have had really good personalities for development and 2 of those were almost perfect (18+ in Det, Amb & Professionalism). The other of the 3 had Ambition that wasn't quite as high but still good enough that mentoring isn't required. This is a great thing but I've found myself mulling the causation. My HoYD is a pretty good, but he's a newgen HoYD that the club had when I started the save. Since that's the case, I'm not sure he impacted the first-day newgens. His Personality is Determined and I think its something like 17 Det, 14 Prof, 10 Ambition (going by memory), so I'm not sure if its anything to do with him having several youths come thru with 18+ Professionalism or just random luck. Any insight?

[BamBamBam]

So what is the best personality for a HOYR to have?

[herne79]

24 minutes ago, BamBamBam said:

So what is the best personality for a HOYR to have?

Model Citizen, but highly unlikely you'll find one of those.

Model Professional, Professional, Resolute all good options.  Fairly Professional, Spirited can also be good.  But remember, even with a Model Citizen you won't suddenly be churning out loads of highly professional players.  Sure you'll get a few but it's not a magic wand.  Tutoring will always be your friend and also don't forget that your HoYD doubles up as a Youth Team coach, so coaching ability shouldn't be ignored.

[BamBamBam]

Can you search by personality?

Not by my pc atm

[MontyOnTheRun]

Do you get youngsters matching your HoYD's nationality? I am thinking about bringing in a foreign coach.

[Ross Ingersoll]

damn, first i learn ive been thinking youth facilities were for the under 18 squad and now i learn HOYD doesnt need good 'judging youth potential. interesting week

[mersk]

On 13/07/2017 at 17:42, Seb Wassell said:

A Head of Youth Development will mainly influence the personalities of your newgens. In some cases he will affect the newgen template selected, i.e. positions and attribute spreads.

Junior Coaching determines the CA of newgens entering your team.

Youth Recruitment determines the PA of newgens entering your team.

- Both of the above are relative to other factors, such as the nation's youth rating. 

Youth Facilities helps determine the rate of CA gain for the youth teams.

Training Facilities helps determine the rate of CA gain for the senior teams.

 

Is there a particular reason these lines have a strikethrough? Is it meant to imply the information is no longer valid?

[Seb Wassell]

10 hours ago, mersk said:

 

Is there a particular reason these lines have a strikethrough? Is it meant to imply the information is no longer valid?

Yes.

[mersk]

3 minutes ago, Seb Wassell said:

Yes.

Any chance you could elaborate? If Youth Recruitment doesn't determine the PA of newgens, what does? A lot of factors, obviously, but are there any you'd emphasize as particularly important? What are the functions of Junior Coaching, Youth Recruitment, and Facilities if they no longer affect the thing mentioned in that post?

 

I was also a little confused at how HOYD was said to mainly just affect the personality, but that all youth staff will slightly influence the PA of your best newgens, with JPP and WWY underlined as the key attributes. It was also stated that HOYD does the same thing, only with twice as much impact (I'm assuming twice as much as any given staff member, and not twice as much as all other staff members combined). So does the HOYD's JPP and WWY directly affect the newgens' PA or not?

 

It's surprising that so much of this information is kept secret, especially considering how important it is for both average and veteran players. I can appreciate keeping stuff 'under the hood' away from prying eyes, but it seems like it's been taken a bit too far.

[herne79]

4 minutes ago, mersk said:

Any chance you could elaborate? If Youth Recruitment doesn't determine the PA of newgens, what does? A lot of factors, obviously, but are there any you'd emphasize as particularly important? What are the functions of Junior Coaching, Youth Recruitment, and Facilities if they no longer affect the thing mentioned in that post?

Youth Recruitment, Junior Coaching and Youth Facilities all contribute to the quality of newgens (both current and potential ability).

Training Facilities are used by all of your visible squads, the quality of which helps determine player progression.