Brexit and FM17

[themadsheep2001]

1 minute ago, noikeee said:

Surely people are allowed to have an opinion on whether they like those design decisions or not, and in fact that's one of the main reasons we have a discussion forum for?

I dont think anyone has ever said they couldn't have an opinion...

[enigmatic]

Is "they don't want it being optional. there isn't much room for debate" stated policy or simply a conclusion drawn from the fact they've said its a core feature and haven't put an option into the UI? (yet?)

It's a bit sad that "they don't want it" is being used to dismiss largely constructive discussion about the merit of adding in a particular feature.

Not least the fact that whilst I can sort of understand SI adopting a "we don't want to spend ages developing a new realism feature for people go and turn it off" POV if that is indeed their official position, half the reason for having toggleable Brexit options is the likelihood that some users will consider a restrictive Brexit an excellent idea that will rejuvenate their enjoyment of the English league so they want to make sure it happens)

It's not as if it's a discussion that's been done ad-infinitum or is clearly incredibly difficult to do like most of the other user requests that come up with new releases.

[themadsheep2001]

2 minutes ago, enigmatic said:

Is "they don't want it being optional. there isn't much room for debate" stated policy or simply a conclusion drawn from the fact they've said its a core feature and haven't put an option into the UI? (yet?)

It's a bit sad that "they don't want it" is being used to dismiss largely constructive discussion about the merit of adding in a particular feature.

Not least the fact that whilst I can sort of understand SI adopting a "we don't want to spend ages developing a new realism feature for people go and turn it off" POV if that is indeed their official position, half the reason for having toggleable Brexit options is the likelihood that some users will consider a restrictive Brexit an excellent idea that will rejuvenate their enjoyment of the English league so they want to make sure it happens)

It's not as if it's a discussion that's been done ad-infinitum or is clearly incredibly difficult to do like most of the other user requests that come up with new releases.

The question was: why is it not optional?

The really short answer (Miles gives a much longer and better one in the article) is they want it to be a fundamental part of the game. It's not dismissal at all.

[Warhawk]

6 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

The question was: why is it not optional?

The really short answer (Miles gives a much longer and better one in the article) is they want it to be a fundamental part of the game. It's not dismissal at all.

Well, sure, but feedback on design decisions can still be constructive whether or not they ultimately decide to take any of it under advisement.

Anyway, I personally love the feature in general and am looking forward to seeing what happens in my first save, my only concern is that the randomness aspect of it will mean that some people get the same Brexit result over and over and thus miss out on the variety the experience is supposed to bring.  I don't know if there's any way to address that while keeping with their philosophy behind the feature, I just think it's a point that ought to be made.

[themadsheep2001]

6 minutes ago, Warhawk said:

Well, sure, but feedback on design decisions can still be constructive whether or not they ultimately decide to take any of it under advisement.

Anyway, I personally love the feature in general and am looking forward to seeing what happens in my first save, my only concern is that the randomness aspect of it will mean that some people get the same Brexit result over and over and thus miss out on the variety the experience is supposed to bring.  I don't know if there's any way to address that while keeping with their philosophy behind the feature, I just think it's a point that ought to be made.

I'd say the bold is far more important point than the option of it, and one that is harder to gauge until one does repeated play throughs (or simulations). They would have done plenty of both internally though.

The other, really key one: how will it affect AI squad building/transfers. Any brexit that leads to big changes will be a really good test of the the improvements to the AI.

[the_gaffa]

At this moment in time, surely a lot of what happens in the football world post triggering of the Brexit is pure conjecture?

Yes I'm aware that there are variations of how it occurs in FM, but basing a whole mandatory feature on what might happen still seems a bit crazy in my opinion.

[gibbo11]

8 minutes ago, the_gaffa said:

At this moment in time, surely a lot of what happens in the football world post triggering of the Brexit is pure conjecture?

Yes I'm aware that there are variations of how it occurs in FM, but basing a whole mandatory feature on what might happen still seems a bit crazy in my opinion.

The mandatory feature is exactly what is happening in real life now. The variations are possible in real life and in the game. Every possible outcome in real life is in the game. The referendum happened in real life and the referendum has happened in the game. SI have just copied what has happened in real life and the ambiguity of what happens next is unpredictable, just like it is for us in the real world.

[gibbo11]

23 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

I'd say the bold is far more important point than the option of it, and one that is harder to gauge until one does repeated play throughs (or simulations). They would have done plenty of both internally though.

The other, really key one: how will it affect AI squad building/transfers. Any brexit that leads to big changes will be a really good test of the the improvements to the AI.

I'm really interested to find this out too. Whilst I've been vocally all for the idea, I'd hope it has been implemented with these things thoroughly tested.

[puffascruffowitz]

I like this very much. I sort of hope my save gets the hard Brexit to add a little challenge to the save. I think it'd be fun. But maybe that's just me since scouting is one of my favorite things anyway

[Jibby123]

4 hours ago, YKW said:

I like big changes and I also love a challenge so I'm quite looking forward to playing this and seeing what unfolds in my game. I'm slightly worried though because this seems like a pretty drastic change to implement in a relatively short period of time.

My major, major worry is that I genuinely fear the possible effects this could have on the transfer market and AI squad building. There are already some slight balancing issues when it comes to the optimal database size and player count, and how this affects the transfer market, and I can see this Brexit feature exacerbating the problems. Depending on the scenario that unfolds, you could find the transfer market suddenly flooded with Not Needed players and be unable to sell any of them, or find a huge lack of any eligible players that are available to sign. Without appropriate currency valuation this problem would be even worse, as European teams won't have a realistic price advantage that would stimulate their purchases of UK based players. (I've never noticed currencies changing value in the game, but maybe this is in fact already in there.)

The transfer market in the event of a repealed Brexit is a massively different beast to the transfer market in the event of a "hard" brexit - what sort of things have been done to make sure the game runs as smoothly and logically as possible after this point in the game? There are multiple paths the game could take, so there must be multiple mechanics to govern each of these situations, surely? Along the lines of some kind of special code that gets activated to keep the transfer market working well. Using the classic "quick start" save seems like an invitation for disaster, as there won't be a large enough transfer market of foreign clubs to sell players to.

I'm also a little bit concerned that this can't be turned off. That makes this all too political for my liking. There are no facts about what the impact of Brexit will be, so the effects have to just be speculation. If it's just speculation then it's at the whim of the creator what picture of the Brexit they paint. For instance, what would be stopping SI from including a news item in the case of a hard Brexit that "Football fans around the world are dismayed at the news that FM2x will be the last in the series, as the impacts of Brexit have made the game financially nonviable."Fans of the series will no doubt look back to names such Cherno Samba, Lionel Morgan and Tonton Zola Mokouko as they celebrate the history of the series. Sega have requested that celebrations be kept to a minimum in order to focus on future challenges." Do you think that would unduly effect your feelings of Brexit?

As less plausible examples, if I was a rich Remainer I would just throw some wads of cash at SI and say "make Brexit **** everything up." Similarly, I was a rich Leaver I would throw some similar cashy wads at SI and say "make players never get injured because the NHS is so well funded, etc."  Even if all bases are covered in terms of potential outcomes, I expect this to be a very, very biased way of including this. SI have first hand experience of just how damaging this vote could be for their business, it's silly to think they would be as open to positive Brexit scenarios as negative ones. I happen to believe that Brexit will most likely be negative for the UK, but that doesn't mean I want to play a game where if Brexit happens I will generally have to perceive that as the start of something negative for my save, either through the way the exit is portrayed, or because the game can't quite work properly with the new scenario.

Lastly, and this is more of a romantic point than anything else, FM is a playground for our fantasies. I'm so sick of Brexit and it's just a little annoying that all of a sudden something that is meant to be an escape from reality now has something hugely political right at the center of it. I think a much better option would be to have a dropdown at the start of the game for "Brexit result: In/Out/Random."

For the record I am getting FM17 and I am looking forward to trying this out, I just think the whole thing is really, really weird.

 

Good points.

AI Squad building being one of them.

[Icelander83]

3 hours ago, themadsheep2001 said:

It's a design decision. They don't want it being optional. There really isn't much room for debate on that as it stands. I'm not pro or anti SI on this front, but I am very much pro teams being allowed to design and implement ideas they want in this industry.  

This is very much the crux of the matter. I don't much care that there are Brexit scenarios in the game. However the fact they apparently can't be turned off or chosen/manipulated is an absolute deal breaker to me and quite frankly an incredibly stupid decision. But that's just the way it is, as with any other game, if one doesn't like the features, one doesn't play the game. Really is that simple

[PeeDub]

27 minutes ago, Icelander83 said:

This is very much the crux of the matter. I don't much care that there are Brexit scenarios in the game. However the fact they apparently can't be turned off or chosen/manipulated is an absolute deal breaker to me and quite frankly an incredibly stupid decision. But that's just the way it is, as with any other game, if one doesn't like the features, one doesn't play the game. Really is that simple

Well, as this is a beta, one would hope at least that feedback will be taken on board.

[Just-Wool]

Leaving the EU is one of the most fundamentally earth shattering changes the UK will have had in the past 100 years. It'll affect everyone on the continent, so yes, it should be in the game completely. Making a key feature like this optional and/or being able to be manipulated to be beneficial to the player if they keep reloading is "meh" to me. After all a football manager will have zero input or chance to change what happens, nor can they just opt out of new rules and go "nah mate, I'm good." 

I don't buy into the realism debate either. I mean it's just as realistic, whatever happens, as Mike McStooge, the 19 year old from Rotherham who hasn't got his coaching badges now becoming manager of Liverpool randomly one day in July. Or for some guy to randomly take Ebbsfleet to the CL final within 8 years. Whenever you press that button to join the game and start a new game, realism takes a back seat. 

I'm hoping that this sort of league rule change will start to become more prevalent at some point. I've been wanting dynamic or random league changes for years. It keeps you on your toes if you get to 20 years and suddenly realise the landscape of your whole league is going to change because now you have a draft, or you have to sell your players, or the league expands or something. 

[Ceching You Out]

While ultimately the inclusion of Brexit is SI's decision, I'm a bit confused at the fairly radical change in tack compared to other potential real world inclusions over the years. The pat answer to "Will thing X, partially underway in the real world, be included in next year's FM?" has always been "When it has been decided in real life, it will make it's way into the game." I appreciated that consistency. That rationale has been used for delaying inclusion of expansion teams in MLS, nations joining FIFA, countries' EU admissions, and was just repeated recently by SI in regards to how the Kosovo and Gibraltar leagues will enter UEFA competitions. Why the sudden departure, other than to make a political point?

I'm a little disappointed to lose that clarity on what SI will and won't consider each year. Why not include a probabilistic decision by FIFA on the number of teams involved in the World Cup? It's no longer sufficient to say "it still might not happen" or "we don't know how it will work" when they've already crossed that bridge with Brexit. If this really is a philosophy change, it puts FM on the path of including more and more drastic world changes that are determined by SI's assessment of probabilities. There's no reason not to include small probabilities of major shifts in football. Why not include European super-leagues, UEFA withdrawing from FIFA, and all sorts of other unlikely but possible events?

Someone will probably come along and say that Brexit is happening, like it or not. That's not true though, with no final ratification and confirmed by SI's own inclusion of a "no Brexit option". This functionality, including the how and when, is speculation and represents a sharp break with FM's previous rationale. Not necessarily a deal-breaker for me, but it does make me concerned that I won't enjoy the future of the franchise.

[lex311085]

I personally feel as though it should be an option to turn on or off. Its just a game. Kind of feels forced on us and I don't think Brexit in real life will affect the premier league at all.

[lex311085]

4 hours ago, Icelander83 said:

This is very much the crux of the matter. I don't much care that there are Brexit scenarios in the game. However the fact they apparently can't be turned off or chosen/manipulated is an absolute deal breaker to me and quite frankly an incredibly stupid decision. But that's just the way it is, as with any other game, if one doesn't like the features, one doesn't play the game. Really is that simple

but you can turn on and off other scenarios like attribute masking etc. How would people who have nothing to do with your save choosing to go with "no breixit" make the game a deal breaker for you?

[Icelander83]

29 minutes ago, lex311085 said:

but you can turn on and off other scenarios like attribute masking etc. How would people who have nothing to do with your save choosing to go with "no breixit" make the game a deal breaker for you?

Re-read what I wrote, then you'll find I've said nothing like that at all. I want the option to turn it off. The fact there doesn't seem to be an option to do so is what I'm calling a deal breaker

[mfprez]

Incredibly moronic decision to put this in the game considering such a system does not exist in England as of today and you don't even know if this is the way things are going to work in the future.
Smells like a political statement or a cheap marketing gimmick to mask the fact you've barely changed anything.

[mfprez]

8 hours ago, themadsheep2001 said:

The question was: why is it not optional?

The really short answer (Miles gives a much longer and better one in the article) is they want it to be a fundamental part of the game. It's not dismissal at all.

You're making a system that doesn't exist in real life a fundamental part of a game that is supposed to be realistic. Baffling really.

[KUBI]

The Brexit is reality. It's just not clear how it will be converted. The different outcomes are part of the FM simulation. And yes, it is a simulation.

[Matt ex SEGA]

Been trying to process this one.

Seems odd that there are an array of options to cover all eventualities - that seems to be exceptionally complicated to consider and code for - so I think SI deserve credit for trying to predict realistically what'll happen and model it.  Also, its an amazing piece of PR.

That said - when it's clear that nobody really knows what the actual outcome will be or how it'll affect the football world - I think I'd prefer it if there was an option to control it yourself as the end user.

[themadsheep2001]

4 minutes ago, mfprez said:

You're making a system that doesn't exist in real life a fundamental part of a game that is supposed to be realistic. Baffling really.

I dont make anything.

[KUBI]

5 minutes ago, Matt ex SEGA said:

That said - when it's clear that nobody really knows what the actual outcome will be or how it'll affect the football world - I think I'd prefer it if there was an option to control it yourself as the end user.

I think the thought behind it was, that you also can not control it yourself as end user in politics. You have to live with it. And that's what FM is simulating.

[Matt ex SEGA]

2 minutes ago, KUBI said:

I think the though behind it was, that you also can not control it yourself as end user in politics. You have to live with it. And that's what FM is simulating.

Yes, I understood that clearly.  Generally SI take a position of "we'll do what we know to be real" though with league rules, changes etc.  This feels ambitious, but somewhat out of kilter with that.

For the record - I don't mind them trying to model it at all.  But I'd like the option to simply ignore it until there is an actual outcome.  Your mileage may vary...:)

[mfprez]

8 minutes ago, KUBI said:

The Brexit is reality. It's just not clear how it will be converted. The different outcomes are part of the FM simulation. And yes, it is a simulation.

The point is though is that those different outcomes are based on pure speculation. I don't think it is the job of Football Manager to determine the effects of Brexit based on such speculation. It's far too complex of a narrative to implement realistically and I feel it would be more rational to implement the effects of Brexit on the game when that time actually comes in real life.

It's a PR stunt, I get it.

[Lord Rowell]

44 minutes ago, mfprez said:

Incredibly moronic decision to put this in the game considering such a system does not exist in England as of today and you don't even know if this is the way things are going to work in the future.
Smells like a political statement or a cheap marketing gimmick to mask the fact you've barely changed anything.

To some extent it is a political statement. Given the gravity of the decision we've made as a country, yet with all the uncertainty to come, and the lack of clarity as to what people actually voted for, I don't have a problem with a political statement in this fashion as these issues need to be aired in public.

36 minutes ago, mfprez said:

You're making a system that doesn't exist in real life a fundamental part of a game that is supposed to be realistic. Baffling really.

The alternative is to pretend the vote of 23/6 didn't happen, which is much less realistic. It's easy to criticise things but I think you have to compare against the alternative actions (or inactions = same thing).

16 minutes ago, mfprez said:

The point is though is that those different outcomes are based on pure speculation. I don't think it is the job of Football Manager to determine the effects of Brexit based on such speculation. It's far too complex of a narrative to implement realistically and I feel it would be more rational to implement the effects of Brexit on the game when that time actually comes in real life.

It's a PR stunt, I get it.

On that one. Article 50 is likely to be activated next year. Then, at least 2 years for the negotiating process as we withdraw from the EU and disentangle ourselves from the myriad webs of EU legislation. Many legal experts are saying we could be looking at 7-8 years. So to your point and the point of many as to waiting until we know for certain, that could take a long time. In the meantime, the FM game stagnates in an alternative reality bubble.

[Lord Rowell]

Its worth noting btw that we only have to suffer Brexit when playing the full version of FM.

For those who want alternative reality, FMT is Brexit-free.

[Super Bladesman]

I wonder if the editor will make Brexit... editable, for those who dislike the idea (in game)...?

[RiverReveal666]

Is it going to be something thats possible to edit when the ingame/external editor comes out?

I quite like the idea in theory, in fact I would like them to go even further and have lots of different rule changes and random events happening that might change different parts of the game randomly. BUT, I would like the option at the beginning of the game to to either turn things on/off/random. As long as Im in control at the beginning to choose then I think it could make long term saves pretty interesting, for example big club breakaways from leagues, stock market crashes and  PLC clubs nearly folding ect. 

So while I quite like the idea of Brexit being random, I dont like the idea of having zero control of whether its implemented or not. If Im enjoying a save and didnt want anything to change and then it did then I think im more likely to just go and play another game, than start again and face it happening again. 

[nico_france]

Hey guys,

Did not browse the whole thread,

But i guess, that the Brexit decision IG will occur at a specific date,

If it's the case, for those who want a certain type of Brexit, it could be just a matter of saving just before, and reloading if we're not satisfied with the outcome ?

I will personnally let the game runs normally, it will add, to my mind, a lot more diversity from save to save

A hard brexit issue could be quite challenging for a english manager, and very interesting as well

 

[Georgik]

The bottom line is this: Is this system in place in this moment in EPL ? Answer: No.

Is this planned for the next-season ? Answear: No. 

Then why SI thinks they know best and have decided to implement this in the game ? How to they know in what way the system will be implemented in EPL ? 

Why not change the rules of other competitions too if you're at it ? Because it seems that the simulation of realism doesn't matter anymore.

This is an obvious PR stunt, make it an option please.

[Jibby123]

The more I think about it, the more I like it. An option would be definitely nice and don't understand why it can't be.

As said, my biggest fear is how AI managers in England/UK will 'prepare' or hedge it's bets for future season of unknown date of potential hard or soft (or no) Brexit.

It's one thing a for human player to do it but AI getting it even slightly wrong could be catastrophic for a save.

AI squad building hasn't always been 10/10 in the past and that's without the potential impacts here.

[Lord Rowell]

8 minutes ago, Georgik said:

The bottom line is this: Is this system in place in this moment in EPL ? Answer: No.

Is this planned for the next-season ? Answear: No. 

Then why SI thinks they know best and have decided to implement this in the game ? 

Why not change the rules of other competitions too if you're at it ? Because it seems that the simulation of realism doesn't matter anymore.

Presumably though in the event that the game you are playing simulates a hard Brexit scenario, that will occur further down the line e.g. 2-3 years, rather than right now.

[phnompenhandy]

Let me make an observation and prediction from a purely gaming point of view:

 

I've elsewhere praised FM17 for being basically a polishing of FM16 - by focusing on improving the ME, animations, transfers and so on what we've got is an FM probably more free of bugs than any before.

 

However .... possibly the weakest part of FM, presumably because it's the hardest to code, has always been long-term AI squad-building. These various Brexit options are so complex that I just can see it outcome being a pleasing one. I don't think there has been long enough to do thorough soak tests, and that is a further reason why i think this should have been introduced for FM18 rather than rushed out now. My prediction is that further down the line there are going to be a lot of furious complains about long-term saves being compromised and ruined by Brexit-affected poor AI squad-building.

[Just-Wool]

44 minutes ago, Georgik said:

The bottom line is this: Is this system in place in this moment in EPL ? Answer: No.

Is this planned for the next-season ? Answear: No. 

Then why SI thinks they know best and have decided to implement this in the game ? How to they know in what way the system will be implemented in EPL ? 

Why not change the rules of other competitions too if you're at it ? Because it seems that the simulation of realism doesn't matter anymore.

This is an obvious PR stunt, make it an option please.

What's more realistic than actually having no idea how leaving the EU is going to affect your team until it happens? Football managers across the country have no idea how to plan because of it. This reflects real football more accurately than just ignoring the fact.

 

 

[Jibby123]

4 minutes ago, monkeywool said:

What's more realistic than actually having no idea how leaving the EU is going to affect your team until it happens? Football managers across the country have no idea how to plan because of it. This reflects real football more accurately than just ignoring the fact.

 

 

As said though (and personally as a human player I like the challenge more and more), do you have faith AI can step up to the plate? We wait with baited breath, but SI I hope have nailed this. I am not so optimistic, but hopefully wrong.

[themadsheep2001]

45 minutes ago, phnompenhandy said:

Let me make an observation and prediction from a purely gaming point of view:

 

I've elsewhere praised FM17 for being basically a polishing of FM16 - by focusing on improving the ME, animations, transfers and so on what we've got is an FM probably more free of bugs than any before.

 

However .... possibly the weakest part of FM, presumably because it's the hardest to code, has always been long-term AI squad-building. These various Brexit options are so complex that I just can see it outcome being a pleasing one. I don't think there has been long enough to do thorough soak tests, and that is a further reason why i think this should have been introduced for FM18 rather than rushed out now. My prediction is that further down the line there are going to be a lot of furious complains about long-term saves being compromised and ruined by Brexit-affected poor AI squad-building.

How would you know if there have been enough tests or not?

[Jibby123]

If they have nailed AI on this I will be really impressed and bodes well for AI in the game generally outside of this issue.

[Pingdinho]

40 minutes ago, monkeywool said:

What's more realistic than actually having no idea how leaving the EU is going to affect your team until it happens? Football managers across the country have no idea how to plan because of it. This reflects real football more accurately than just ignoring the fact.

 

 

This is a good point. Brexit is something that clubs must be thinking about right now, or soon will be, and if they are not planning for various possible outcomes then that would be utter negligence.

Hopefully the AI squad management will cope with it well enough. We can't write that off yet when the game is in beta and hardly anyone will have actually experienced a brexit.

Personally, I am looking forward to this happening in my save. I get that some won't like it. I understand it even. I don't like that you can be sacked for no reason after a board takeover, but I accept that I am playing a game that really doesn't care about my feelings and treats me exactly the same as a random AI manager.

Anyway; more random events please SI. This is good stuff if you ask me. It's good to shake things up to stop long term saves becoming too dull.

[Just-Wool]

It remains to be seen if SI did sort out AI squad building or not. I hope they did though. Nothing worse than getting late into a career and the other squads are pathetic. Of course they started to address that in 2016 by making high quality regens difficult to buy on the cheap but even then it gets too easy later in. 

[Wolf_pd]

4 hours ago, RiverReveal666 said:

Is it going to be something thats possible to edit when the ingame/external editor comes out?

Probably not, judging by comments made by Miles.

But you might want to take a look at the agreements and whether they have added an 'opt in/opt out' button for certain agreements.

That would be a nice one. The other one would be to look at Serbia how their nation handles EU agreement under the Nations Treated as EU tab. They have a start date. England could easily have an end date there at the moment.

Somewhat speculative though I admit, but there are options.

[Warhawk]

2 hours ago, Wolf_pd said:

Probably not, judging by comments made by Miles.

But you might want to take a look at the agreements and whether they have added an 'opt in/opt out' button for certain agreements.

That would be a nice one. The other one would be to look at Serbia how their nation handles EU agreement under the Nations Treated as EU tab. They have a start date. England could easily have an end date there at the moment.

Somewhat speculative though I admit, but there are options.

Issue is that it's actually a range of years, 2-10.  

In any case, irrespective of the merits of the feature, it would seem very weird to be able to use the database editor to change the EU status of every country in the world except the U.K.

[Herbie2100]

When is this happening in game?

when do you get the news item and when is it actually taking effect in game?

[HUNT3R]

Just now, Herbie2100 said:

When is this happening in game?

when do you get the news item and when is it actually taking effect in game?

As the article posted states, between 2 and 10 years and you get a warning 1 year in advance.

[SW20]

I think it's a great idea to incorporate into the game but at the outset, users should be able to choose what type of Brexit they want rather than it being chosen for them randomly a year or 2 into the game. However, I do find the idea of Scotland having another referendum and leaving the UK a bit of a fantasy though which shouldn't have been included (only Westminster can allow a binding referendum and it certainly won't for the remainder of this Parliament, regardless of the SNP's posturing).

I think we all have different ideas of how Brexit will look and giving the user the flexibility to choose would help address some of the concern that many have of even including it in the game at all. 

What's for sure is that it will certainly be interesting! 

[Ceching You Out]

16 hours ago, Matt ex SEGA said:

Yes, I understood that clearly.  Generally SI take a position of "we'll do what we know to be real" though with league rules, changes etc.  This feels ambitious, but somewhat out of kilter with that.

For the record - I don't mind them trying to model it at all.  But I'd like the option to simply ignore it until there is an actual outcome.  Your mileage may vary...:)

Exactly where I'm coming from above. In a vacuum, this type of change to FM could be an ambitious, exciting thing if implemented well. But given the years of stated policy it contravenes, it represents a massive shift in FM's philosophy.

Rather than go down this immersion-breaking rabbit hole of "How real does a geopolitical event have to be for inclusion?", I'd prefer the option for my FM save to match what we fully know today.

[LeedsUnitedFan2]

I voted 'Remain' and still live in hope that one of the legal challenges will succeed, or at least cause a delay past the next election, when a party running on an anti-Brexit manifesto win a majority.

However, given that at this moment in time it looks almost certain that Brexit will happen, but all we know about what this means is "Brexit means Brexit" (I think my 1-year old nephew could work that out); I am glad that SI have implemented this in game. The fact that they seem to have a better idea of the potential implications than those responsible for delivering it worries me though...

As for the debate about whether it should be optional or whether the user should be able to select their "flavour" of Brexit; in real life the government aren't going to phone up the Leeds manager and ask whether to go ahead with Brexit, and if so what Brexit scenario he'd like. I think that SI have implemented the most realistic scenario possible given what we know today, and I approve.

Now, adding a challenge mode scenario for hard EU exit (playable with a team from any EU member state) could be interesting...

[noikeee]

So, anyone experienced Brexit yet?

[RandomGuy.]

Can't remember this much moaning about the 2022 WC always being moved from Qatar in last years game...

[beldurax]

My apologies if this has already been asked, but can the entire Brexit simulation portion of the code be toggled on or off i.e. like an option, come the final release on 4 November ?  Is it even possible to change it in the code to turn the Brexit simulation into purely an option for the player ?  Would like to hear from dev on this ...

Thanks.