Official Football Manager 2015 Pre Release Beta Feedback Thread - Update 15.0.3

[oblongata21]

No not in my experience. It very repetetive and not much "nice" gameplay. Its who scores the most on deadball and crosses that win, spiced with endless longshoots going wide, instead of passing to a better postioned teammate, and Direckt free kicks going into the stands.

Its boring and frustrating.

Ive played 16 games and havent seen one goal scored from a deadball situation. However, i have seen a lot of shots attempted with 2-3 defenders in front of the player, instead of passing off to a completely open teammate. Im sure SI has picked up on it and rectified the situation, plus, there is still no superior manager game out there....this is the closest it gets

[eple]

Paul Pogba keeps shooting but he doesn't score. Kind of regretting the £80m transfer fee and £18m bonuses spent, should have bought wingers, at least 10 of them!

[Ben Delat]

Looking at stats in my save for the Bundesliga suggests that there's a good mix of central-and-wide players getting a decent number of assists, though. Three out of the top ten are DMCs; three are wide players; four are AMCs. Not a perfect way to measure it but it looks like a decent balance. Perhaps the transfer dealings in your save have lead to shorter CDs with weaker positioning/marking attributes?

Not as far as I'm aware. ..

I remember reading somewhere, no clue if it has any grounds or not, the the AI tactics tend to mirror your own. So I'm playing wide, and crossing a lot, maybe the opponent is.

However, almost every line-up I play against in the Bundesliga is 4-4-1-1 - So you'd expect wide play to be a big part of how they attack.

The only thing I'm concerned about is, if they "tune" (fun word for nerf) down crosses, where on earth are my goals going to come from...

My 1 on 1 conversion rate is still pretty poor T_T

[Schotsmannetje]

My 1 on 1 conversion rate is still pretty poor T_T

Yeah, that I do agree with. The 1 on 1 conversion rate is under par imho.

[RTHerringbone]

Yeah, that I do agree with. The 1 on 1 conversion rate is under par imho.

As usual, the issue isn't really the conversion rate, more to do with the absolute number of one on ones.

[Schotsmannetje]

As usual, the issue isn't really the conversion rate, more to do with the absolute number of one on ones.

Let me rephrase. In my humble opinion strikers (or other players) with 16+ for both finishing and composure suddenly seem like defenders when they get 1 on 1. It looks off to me personally.

[ohitstrue!]

Why is this getting such poor reviews? i dont like the new interface, but its still the same ol and loved FM!

[macca72]

Anyone who's bought off Amazon and is annoyed that the game has only been dispatched today, feel free to go on the live chat and give them some stick. Just had a convo with an extremely unhelpful bod, who seemed to enjoy telling me I didn't know what I was talking about and that the manufacturer has forbid them from dispatching any earlier than today.

Regardless or not of whether this is true (which I doubt) it was unpleasant.

[Gizmo7]

Anyone who's bought off Amazon and is annoyed that the game has only been dispatched today, feel free to go on the live chat and give them some stick. Just had a convo with an extremely unhelpful bod, who seemed to enjoy telling me I didn't know what I was talking about and that the manufacturer has forbid them from dispatching any earlier than today.

Regardless or not of whether this is true (which I doubt) it was unpleasant.

I ordered from Play.com and mine came through the post today so that's not true what he's telling you.

[jc1]

Anyone who's bought off Amazon and is annoyed that the game has only been dispatched today, feel free to go on the live chat and give them some stick. Just had a convo with an extremely unhelpful bod, who seemed to enjoy telling me I didn't know what I was talking about and that the manufacturer has forbid them from dispatching any earlier than today.

Regardless or not of whether this is true (which I doubt) it was unpleasant.

Hence why I bought it from Steam a couple of weeks ago at a stlightly reduced price and playing around with BETA version also helps when the game goes live at midnight.

[akkm]

SI 'looking' at it doesn't necessarily mean it's bugged, they're merely responding to feedback. But you know what it's like on here. From now, every time someone scores or concedes from a cross in their game, they're going to be narked about it. What'll likely happen is the next update will completely nerf wingers, and people will be moaning that it's unrealistic that Ronaldo never gets a cross in. They really can't win sometimes.

There may well be issues with certain tactical setups re crossing, but I'd be surprised if it needs major surgery. Only my opinion though, I may well be wrong, there's a first time for everything....

Its not what its like to say that now because its being mentioned on the forums people will 'notice' it more now and get narked just because its been mentioned. It is how it is in the match engine. Goals from crosses and diagonal balls through the air are the PRIMARY source of goals scored. I tested out playing with Barca and looked at all the goals scored in La Liga two weeks and one week EVERY goal bar one came from a cross/set piece cross...the other week at least 90% came from crosses/diagonal crossfield balls/set piece cross. Its no good pointing to cross completion to say crosses are not too effective or pointing out number of crosses or whether ronaldo can or can't get crosses in...look at the way goals are scored within this current match engine..simple observation will show that crossing/diagonal cross field ball are the main way goals are scored and its far too heavily weighted in that source...look at any week and check out all the goals scored in whatever league you are running an you will see it.

The variation in how goals are scored is quite limited. Most of the other goals came from crosses which keeper doesnt deal with or breakdown play from crosses or other goals from shots which are parried by keepers if not a goal from direct cross headed inn. This has been an issue with last two years too. There's no getting away from it.

I played with Barca and other teams testing out the recent update and to be fair current match engine has some much improved general play and is by FAR the most polished and fluid in terms of aforementioned general play, animations, tighter first touch, least 'ice effect' and all of that...it is enjoyable to watch now but to say crossing is not overpowered is just denial. I have got Barca to play some really good stuff and had them parked on the edge of the area and moving it around patiently and loads of touches and dribbles in the box waiting for an opportunity which I haven't seen prior to the big match engine re write and that really has been great to see.

At the same time there is no question that a more balanced engine with improved and more enabled central attacking fluid play through the middle is needed to really give an opportunity to employ whatever tactics you want to see your team play whatever way you want without the restrictions the match engine currently enforces...again just to reiterate it is now more possible to play good football than before on engine rewrite and that is encouraging to see.

Still improvements required in:

-even tighter first touch again

-players turning on the spot needs to happen quicker

-mental/technical attributes manifest themselves more discernibly within matches

-above will lead to better pass choice/better dribbling to get through certain situations/crisper passing to open up defences through the middle and in all aspects of play

Just to say all of above saw biggest jump yet from in update 15.02 to 15.03 but with ever evolving engine there are still improvements on above required and lets hope to see all of above improved even more on release...another big jump would be great to see

[macca72]

Hence why I bought it from Steam a couple of weeks ago at a stlightly reduced price and playing around with BETA version also helps when the game goes live at midnight.

It doesn't bother me, I'll be asleep at midnight and working tomorrow so it's no problem. I actually only contacted them to let them know, not to complain.

[ohitstrue!]

Amazon always sent the day before for release day, its only shopto that send it for the day before release

[Ben Delat]

I'm still wrestling with the idea to start over or not - I'm in my second season after winning the Bundesliga with Gladbach, getting the final of europa league but losing to Dortmund of all people.

Not sure just how different the ME is going to be, whether data updates are worth it.

My tactics seem to have completely capitulated at the start of the new season anyway. Whereas I was annihilating all that came before me only losing twice the in the league all last season I'm getting demolished by Promoted Teams.

I've never really understood the reasoning behind second season terribadness..

[Schotsmannetje]

I'm still wrestling with the idea to start over or not - I'm in my second season after winning the Bundesliga with Gladbach, getting the final of europa league but losing to Dortmund of all people.

Not sure just how different the ME is going to be, whether data updates are worth it.

My tactics seem to have completely capitulated at the start of the new season anyway. Whereas I was annihilating all that came before me only losing twice the in the league all last season I'm getting demolished by Promoted Teams.

I've never really understood the reasoning behind second season terribadness..

To be honest my teams always completely collapse at the start of the second season.

[kilik]

so many pages so im not sure if its been asked or if i just havent looked correctly

as player search is gone is there not a way of looking at all the players that are transfer listed or listed for loan?

i understand its more realistic now but still wouldnt every team know when a player is for sell

[treble_yell_:-)]

Why is this getting such poor reviews? i dont like the new interface, but its still the same ol and loved FM!

They've been pretty critical of the new UI and features falling short, which is fair imho.

They all pretty much say that it's still the addictive FM, just that the new features don't really add much or are just plain bad in their opinions.

I think the reviews are generally accurate, I haven't read any that claim is an objectively bad game.

[HUNT3R]

so many pages so im not sure if its been asked or if i just havent looked correctly

as player search is gone is there not a way of looking at all the players that are transfer listed or listed for loan?

i understand its more realistic now but still wouldnt every team know when a player is for sell

The player search isn't gone? And the Filters are still there to list Loan and Transfer listed players?

[jc1]

To be honest my teams always completely collapse at the start of the second season.

That's because the AI has worked out your tactics and an overhaul is needed to keep it guessing, in FM12 there was one tactic when applied worked forever and made the game too easy, they changed all that in FM13 to keep you on your toes.

[treble_yell_:-)]

so many pages so im not sure if its been asked or if i just havent looked correctly

as player search is gone is there not a way of looking at all the players that are transfer listed or listed for loan?

i understand its more realistic now but still wouldnt every team know when a player is for sell

You can stop do it, you just need to use your filters now rather than the handy shortcuts

That's because the AI has worked out your tactics and an overhaul is needed to keep it guessing, in FM12 there was one tactic when applied worked forever and made the game too easy, they changed all that in FM13 to keep you on your toes.

The AI do not work out your tactic, it's a myth that you need to alter it every season.

[xambo]

Does anyone feel the goalkeepers in lower leagues have been overpowered now just to compensate for high match scores? Sometimes they make almost impossible saves just to keep the score down.

The matches do have lower scores now, but I hope they didn't just increase the goalkeeper power and left the attackers with the same finishing. I would rather see goalkeeper power increased a little and the attackers power decreased a little thus making it more balanced.

[HUNT3R]

That's because the AI has worked out your tactics

They don't do that.

In 99% of the cases, the user over-achieves with a tactic that takes advantage of all the space the opponent gives him. Second season (sometimes even by Christmas in the 1st) they are now taking the user more seriously and they'll play more cautiously, leaving more players back. There won't be space for fast breaks forward, so that tactic won't "work" anymore.

[Schotsmannetje]

That's because the AI has worked out your tactics and an overhaul is needed to keep it guessing, in FM12 there was one tactic when applied worked forever and made the game too easy, they changed all that in FM13 to keep you on your toes.

Changing tactics usually does the trick, brings back results and form.

[jc1]

They don't do that.

In 99% of the cases, the user over-achieves with a tactic that takes advantage of all the space the opponent gives him. Second season (sometimes even by Christmas in the 1st) they are now taking the user more seriously and they'll play more cautiously, leaving more players back. There won't be space for fast breaks forward, so that tactic won't "work" anymore.

Well maybe not work out, wrong term possibly but they do make your tactics not work as easily, hence why you have to tweak them as you say around Christmas or the start of the next season.

[Ben Delat]

That's because the AI has worked out your tactics and an overhaul is needed to keep it guessing, in FM12 there was one tactic when applied worked forever and made the game too easy, they changed all that in FM13 to keep you on your toes.

I understand what you're saying I do..

Then again - It's like saying QPR knows how Barcelona play, they know maybe that their defense is their weakest point.

However, you and I, and indeed the world knows, all the knowledge that QPR has about Barcelona means absolutely nothing. They're still going to lose.

We have enough things in FM that already break immersion because of the way they have to go about balancing the game, we don't need any more. It does call itself a simulation after all..

Things like player skill kinda have to mean something

Edit: Incidentally, GLadbach, the team I manage, have played the same system for the last few years, they don't rotate much and have a very steady 11 - Yet have gone from strength to strength and are currently the only other side besides Munich who are undefeated in the Bundesliga this season

[Some Guy!]

Why is this getting such poor reviews? i dont like the new interface, but its still the same ol and loved FM!

Football Manager tends to get poor reviews every time I actually check. If I recall, a big name reviewer gave it a 2/10 one year, citing it to be a terrible, unplayable concept, only to pull the review and give it a 9/10 (I think) within a week. I just think most reviews don't want to play it. It's a niche game, and one that only really tends to balance and come into it's own around January-March when the second and third major update come through.

[Mr U Rosler]

2nd season syndrome, normally follows a successful first season so you have a higher reputation, deserve more respect so opposing teams treat you differently and set up as though you are a 'big team' which often means countering you.

They don't learn your tactic, it's just that your old tactic may no longer be appropriate for you.

[HUNT3R]

I understand what you're saying I do..

Then again - It's like saying QPR knows how Barcelona play, they know maybe that their defense is their weakest point.

However, you and I, and indeed the world knows, all the knowledge that QPR has about Barcelona means absolutely nothing. They're still going to lose.

We have enough things in FM that already break immersion because of the way they have to go about balancing the game, we don't need any more. It does call itself a simulation after all..

Things like player skill kinda have to mean something

If you're Barca pretty much every team will line up the same way against you, so you wouldn't need to change much, if anything. On FM14, I went 4 seasons without changing a thing.

[jc1]

I understand what you're saying I do..

Then again - It's like saying QPR knows how Barcelona play, they know maybe that their defense is their weakest point.

However, you and I, and indeed the world knows, all the knowledge that QPR has about Barcelona means absolutely nothing. They're still going to lose.

We have enough things in FM that already break immersion because of the way they have to go about balancing the game, we don't need any more. It does call itself a simulation after all..

Things like player skill kinda have to mean something

Edit: Incidentally, GLadbach, the team I manage, have played the same system for the last few years, they don't rotate much and have a very steady 11 - Yet have gone from strength to strength and are currently the only other side besides Munich who are undefeated in the Bundesliga this season

A perfect example at the moment is Man City, a big criticism I've heard on Talksport recently is Pellegrini not having a plan B and that what was working when he 1st came is now not. He continues with the 4-4-2 and at times look brilliant but teams have sussed out how to play against them and are now either drawing or beating them, he doesn't know what to do to change things when it goes wrong and the same can be said about Wenger. No matter what you thought of Sir Alex at Man U, he had about 3-4 different tactics depending on who he was playing etc and he had the personnel to be able to do that.

By the time I get to the end of my 1st season I have 3 tactics loaded, a controlling one, a counter attacking one and an attacking one, I will make little adjustments where necessary every season to keep the AI guessing.

[Shake Appeal]

Yeah, there does come a point where you can bully every team into submission just by having the best players, but before that, when you're in the middle of the pack, you really do have to adapt when teams get cagier against you. And that's exactly how it should be.

[ohitstrue!]

Does anyone else think that the interface is a bit pants?

[HUNT3R]

Does anyone else think that the interface is a bit pants?

"A bit pants" isn't constructive in any way. Rather list what you like/don't like and why.

[RTHerringbone]

Does anyone else think that the interface is a bit pants?

Can we have something a modicum more constructive than "a bit pants" please?

[treble_yell_:-)]

Football Manager tends to get poor reviews every time I actually check. If I recall, a big name reviewer gave it a 2/10 one year, citing it to be a terrible, unplayable concept, only to pull the review and give it a 9/10 (I think) within a week. I just think most reviews don't want to play it. It's a niche game, and one that only really tends to balance and come into it's own around January-March when the second and third major update come through.

A quick look at metacritic shoes FM.has had an averge score of around 85 since 2009, this is the first year in a long time it's reviewed averagely.

[kilik]

The player search isn't gone? And the Filters are still there to list Loan and Transfer listed players?

cheers

i wasnt looking correctly then

[andu1]

Does anyone else think that the interface is a bit pants?

No, I like it more than FM 14.

[roykela]

I agree but there should be a balance, depending on personality etc.

Anybody else noticed it takes ages to get up to match fitness in pre season?

Takes ages for me as well getting the match fitness up.

Still struggling with quite a few of the players when i'm almost half-way through the season.

Haven't really had any injuries either.

[Firehouse]

Player interaction/contracts still not fixed.

Had few players wanting a new contract, and I just had signed them on the start of the season (I'm now in February). They have contracts 'till 2020 (I'm in early 2016), so it's just weird for me.

[Ben Delat]

2nd season syndrome, normally follows a successful first season so you have a higher reputation, deserve more respect so opposing teams treat you differently and set up as though you are a 'big team' which often means countering you.

They don't learn your tactic, it's just that your old tactic may no longer be appropriate for you.

A perfect example at the moment is Man City, a big criticism I've heard on Talksport recently is Pellegrini not having a plan B and that what was working when he 1st came is now not. He continues with the 4-4-2 and at times look brilliant but teams have sussed out how to play against them and are now either drawing or beating them, he doesn't know what to do to change things when it goes wrong and the same can be said about Wenger. No matter what you thought of Sir Alex at Man U, he had about 3-4 different tactics depending on who he was playing etc and he had the personnel to be able to do that.

By the time I get to the end of my 1st season I have 3 tactics loaded, a controlling one, a counter attacking one and an attacking one, I will make little adjustments where necessary every season to keep the AI guessing.

Okay, this makes sense.

I do still believe that things like player skill, training, staff etc, need to mean more than they currently do, but I accept these points.

I had 3 tactics last season - The formations were slightly different. For example - My main Tactic was called - 4411 -DM Asymmetric M © - A more attacking version, pushing the attacking mid into attack - and a more defensive version playing - 42211 -

However, the Mentality and Philosophy were all the same - Counter/Flexible - The Team and PIs were the same, the only changes I made on a game to game basis, was whether I attacked through the Mid, or used, both or one Flank..

This obviously worked like a dream..

I got to the final of the Europa league playing my rotated squad. Only lost 2 Bundesliga games and all that jazz..

So where do I go from here..

Is it the Mentality that needs to change? Say, my default tactic needing to go from counter to control for example?

I built my team to closely resemble Gladbach in real life. Are my team still going to pwn on the counter if I switch??

[Some Guy!]

A quick look at metacritic shoes FM.has had an averge score of around 85 since 2009, this is the first year in a long time it's reviewed averagely.

Only a tiny fraction of the reviews have been done already. It was 85 last year from 41 reviews. It's 78 this year from 14 reviews.

[MrPompey]

I ordered from Play.com and mine came through the post today so that's not true what he's telling you.

Its 100% true - Amazon only sent me an email today sayings been dispatched. Amazon normally send it one day in advance knowing it cannot be played earlier than 7/11 0:00:01 GMT

I'm giving Amazon stick on chat now but its like banging your head against a wall

[Dagenham_Dave]

I've never really understood the reasoning behind second season terribadness..

First season wild overachievement?

Got to love how people never complain about that though.

[akkm]

A perfect example at the moment is Man City, a big criticism I've heard on Talksport recently is Pellegrini not having a plan B and that what was working when he 1st came is now not. He continues with the 4-4-2 and at times look brilliant but teams have sussed out how to play against them and are now either drawing or beating them, he doesn't know what to do to change things when it goes wrong and the same can be said about Wenger. No matter what you thought of Sir Alex at Man U, he had about 3-4 different tactics depending on who he was playing etc and he had the personnel to be able to do that.

By the time I get to the end of my 1st season I have 3 tactics loaded, a controlling one, a counter attacking one and an attacking one, I will make little adjustments where necessary every season to keep the AI guessing.

Its more that the City players level of performance has dropped than the tactics have been figured out. Toure, for example, is playing woeful stuff but his drop is nothing to do with either city's or opposition tactics affecting him. Was similar to Barca under Guardiola...they faced the same deep lying tactics (and invariably all other tactical attempts to stop them) from the start but as players level dropped they then struggled to break teams down...not because teams suddenly figured them out (as the broke exact same tactics down for first few years under Guardiola) but simply the level of players performance dropped...intensity levels etc through legs declining, hard to maintain motivation over number of years of success. If you put Xavi Iniesta Messi and the others playing with same legs/intensity of 2009-11 they would trounce teams now as they did then

As for Wenger, he has shown an inability to figure out how to get the most out of creative midfielders...he played fabregas too far forward and ultimately regressed has played ozil on the left far too often and wilshere has not made any progress either and is going backwards...wengers success was from pires ljungberg coming off the wing from outside to in and relied on pace/power/transitional play...wenger has shown a lack of understanding of how to set team up to play a la barca.

Ferguson method of throwing on bodies (forwards in particular) and getting the ball into the box as often as possible to score late goals whilst effective was hardly clever tactics...if you want to look at ferguson tactically he has proven inept in europe over his 20+ year tenure...failed far too often to show he ever had any grasp of good tactics

Yes small tweaks to tactics here and there are useful and sometimes necessary but players level of performance needs to be better represented and tactics are not what dictate outcome of games more often than not...yes they contribute but it is players qualities which are more often the difference makers/game breakers

[daylight]

Only a tiny fraction of the reviews have been done already. It was 85 last year from 41 reviews. It's 78 this year from 14 reviews.

The lowest score on there makes me laugh a little.

Eurogamer gives it on 60 out of 100 with the quote "We're left with a game whose main improvements are all disappointments. And yet I'd still I'd put money on me pouring hundreds of hours into it. That's Football Manager. "

So a game that the reviewer said will give him hundreds of hours of entertainment only merits a 60 out of 100.

[cleaner475]

Football Manager tends to get poor reviews every time I actually check. If I recall, a big name reviewer gave it a 2/10 one year, citing it to be a terrible, unplayable concept, only to pull the review and give it a 9/10 (I think) within a week. I just think most reviews don't want to play it. It's a niche game, and one that only really tends to balance and come into it's own around January-March when the second and third major update come through.

Shows you what reviewers are like really: link

EDIT: Found the full review: here for anyone who wants a good laugh

[HUNT3R]

Player interaction/contracts still not fixed.

Had few players wanting a new contract, and I just had signed them on the start of the season (I'm now in February). They have contracts 'till 2020 (I'm in early 2016), so it's just weird for me.

If you have a save from just before they complain, can you report it in the bugs forum please?

[Some Guy!]

The lowest score on there makes me laugh a little.

Eurogamer gives it on 60 out of 100 with the quote "We're left with a game whose main improvements are all disappointments. And yet I'd still I'd put money on me pouring hundreds of hours into it. That's Football Manager. "

So a game that the reviewer said will give him hundreds of hours of entertainment only merits a 60 out of 100.

This is the thing, every Football Manager is the worst ever, until the next one comes along, then it's a masterpiece that you could never replace with that garbage.

[MrPompey]

SI 'looking' at it doesn't necessarily mean it's bugged, they're merely responding to feedback. But you know what it's like on here. From now, every time someone scores or concedes from a cross in their game, they're going to be narked about it. What'll likely happen is the next update will completely nerf wingers, and people will be moaning that it's unrealistic that Ronaldo never gets a cross in. They really can't win sometimes.

There may well be issues with certain tactical setups re crossing, but I'd be surprised if it needs major surgery. Only my opinion though, I may well be wrong, there's a first time for everything....

I bet you a pint

[Dagenham_Dave]

I bet you a pint

Betting with a Scotsman with alcohol at stake? Schoolboy error

[daylight]

Shows you what reviewers are like really: link

EDIT: Found the full review: here for anyone who wants a good laugh

I remember reading that review when it went live, I thought it was great when he was complaining about the lack of music playing while you played the game.

Although he did leave the best for last...

"I couldn’t imagine why anybody would prefer Worldwide Soccer Manager to FIFA 09 or Pro Evolution Soccer 2009."

Pure class and will live through the ages.