Football Manager 2014 - Update 14.2.2 - Feedback Thread

[johnhughthom]

If people are going to assume they speak for the entire player base, I personally have little sympathy when they get called on it.

[ScottGooner]

I was very unceremoniously asked to post this here instead. At least I think I'm posting in the right place. Because my comments probably have nothing to do with this particular patch's changes, so it doesn't seem right. It's a long post (sorry), so I thought it deserved it's own thread. Apparently it's not good enough. I don't know. *shrug*

EDIT by RTHerringbone - What I actually stated was "The feedback thread has itself become a discussion thread, so I'm not sure what your thread offers that is different enough to warrant being a thread in it's own right." Bit different, really.

Okay, firstly I want to make it abundantly clear that I really love the game as a whole. It is, in my opinion, the best of the series as a "product". However, I have some SERIOUS gripes, and this is not unique to this version.

With that said, I welcome any feedback and criticism of my points of view from SI or any of the community members. It is a discussions and I would love to hear your thoughts on this. This largely covers the Match Engine and how the players go about their business on the pitch. I am completely aware that there's a boatload of variables - both hidden and as player attributes - to consider when it comes to how player decisions are made in the game and trust me, I have factored these in, but this is coming from roughly three years of collective game playing and noting certain trends and patterns, along with increasing frustration at how little control I actually have.

We'll start with some of the more obvious things. I'm getting pretty sick of conceding goals because defenders are incapable of actually defending. Standing around, not bothering to make tackles (safe or otherwise), etc. This includes delightful occurances such as own goal from a free kick off of a defender on the line, who didn't even move. The ball bounced down off the crossbar, hit the motionless defender and it bobbled into the net. D'oh.

I'm sick of having balls hoofed downfield by the opposition (usually the 'keepers) and a man who is fairly nearby sort-of meanders towards it and ends up not getting there in time as an opposition player sprints towards it and gets possession - all this just because the match engine seems to deem it sensible for only one player to chase the ball - often someone who is a lot further away from the ball, behind the opposition player so he'll never get there. This is surely stupidity. Also, stop letting balls run out for thrown-ins all the time when you have a player just there who can go after it and start another attack. Very few football teams actually play like that.

I'm getting frustrated with players with 16+ Pace and Acceleration constantly getting beaten to the ball by defenders with (often significantly) less than that, who have had to turn around and run backwards, to retrieve a ball. They almost always get there and even then can still keep going. Pish.

On the subject of wide-men, I'm UTTERLY TIRED of wingers and inside-forwards who get the ball in a more central location ALWAYS going wide in situations where if you would keep going straight you could get one-on-one with the keeper or at least be fouled by a defender. But no, he'll run wide, get swamped by two or more defenders and THEN attempt to cross or pass the ball. Where's the intelligence??? Which brings me to my next point...

When to pass, when to shoot, and when to hold on to the ball. I'm at my wits end with this one - it's my big issue. Players hardly ever pass when it's a good time to pass, or cross. No no, they will wait until they're crowded by defenders or at arbitrary angles, and THEN try to pass or cross ... or shoot for goal. What happens? Of course, it ricochet's off a defender. Opportunity usually wasted. These are quality players I'm talking about here. 15+ decisions, passing, etc. I understand pressure situations, away games, rivalries, being behind, various other factors may lead to occasional or infrequent bad decisions. BUT ALL THE TIME? I have lost or drawn so many games because of absolutely ridiculous decision making like this. Bearing down on the keeper (with defenders looming) and the player slows down and contemplates the meaning of life, with the end result that he gets crowded out, then shoots. WTF? WHY? NO PLAYER WOULD EVER DO THAT!!!! Pretty much every player will shoot. Fine, it hits the keeper, okay. Or he skies it, okay. But to not shoot until the chance of success is literally 1% ... really? And all players? Every game? There hasn't been one single game where I haven't asked FM - out loud - why the hell the player did that? :confused:

There seems to be far too stark a difference between "Work the ball into the box" (translation: pass the ball around until you're swamped by defenders, then lose possession in one of the many creative ways described above) versus not having "Work the ball into the box" (translation: shoot, no matter what. No seriously, just shoot. Angles? Pfft. Defenders? Pfft. Straight at the keeper? Why not?!) - again this can all be fixed with better decision-making. I don't understand what's so difficult with the logic flow of "Is Player X more likely to score than me? Maybe, if I pass to him will he be able to take a better-percentage shot than me? Yes? Okay, I'll pass instead, because scoring more goals is ALWAYS a good thing." ... but this seems to be completely missing. Open players bearing down on the keeper as passing targets, but player shoots wide, or hits defender instead... All the time. Two on one situations. Shoots without thought... All the time. This happens ALL THE TIME, with players with both good and average decision-making skill and mental fortitude, in all club situations I have ever seen. Winning, losing, dominating, sucking ... it doesn't matter.

I also find that there's a severe lack of actual creative play. At all. Despite having creative players and formations and instructions that promote running into channels, making space, drawing away defenders ... players make runs occasionally and from time to time a nice move is put together, but nowhere near frequently enough for it to be considered vaguely realistic. Too often I've seen players TURN AROUND TO FACE THEIR DEFENSIVE LINE, hold the ball, and pass it back. Yes, I get that there may not have been a good attacking passing target at that time, but this happens through MOST of the game. Where are the surging runs from the back? Where are the numerous runs that pacy and creative and intelligent players make all the time??? Hardly to be found anywhere. I'll usually get three or four decent runs a game, but due to the above decision making, clear scoring opportunities simply don't happen because of stupidity.

Which brings me to the home/away thing... and this one is the most likely to be an issue with me and not the game itself, but I frequently find that lesser teams are way too strong at home, and AI-controlled away teams have this totally obscure and random tendency to play like Barcalona when neither their current form, punditry, player quality nor team morale warrants such play. It comes to the point where I fear any away fixture in the league or (especially) a cup. Doesn't matter who the opposition is, if I'm at home at least I have a bit of a chance, but even then who knows if Crystal Palace will thrash me for no good reason. Maybe this is just happening to me, but I really hate away fixtures because I just feel like there's forces at work that shouldn't be there. Upsets happen - I get that - but bottom-of-the-table teams often seem to play extremely well against me and less well against everybody else.

My rant is over. Comments most welcome

Yeah the "wing play" really drives me mad.

[scott MUFC]

I get all of that often, dunno how many times i work a poacher to be more or less through, and blasts a shot from outside the area instead of running.

[voidex]

I've always loved Football Manager, it has had undeniable success throughout the years. It has its up and downs, but for the most part, has been a great success.

One thing that has bugged me about the past few years is unbalance towards realism, and making the game fun. The game is meant to be FUN more than realistic. Realism doesn't always equal fun. When i player FM, i expect some sort of success, as long as i put some work into the team, maybe 10 minutes or so of setting things up. I shouldn't have to put hours and hours of constant fiddling to just get a win against a weaker team, it doesn't make the game fun.

Of course, as a simulation game, it requires a certain amount of realism, but that shouldn't affect the experience and want the player to smash his screen. The fact that you have to essentially change everything nearly every game is a complete idiotic decision in my book, if you don't, you lose. Simple. Some people simply don't have the time in there day to fiddle with every little thing to get some sort of success in the game; some only have 1 hour of gaming time a week, that time shouldn't be filled with frustration.

I'm not saying that fiddling with tactics for every match should be ignored, i'm saying it shouldn't be forced to simply get a win.

Another thing that bugs me is the complete idiotic decisions your players make in the game. I've seen players like Suarez miss constant 1 on 1s, and clear cut chances, despite the fact he is arguably the best striker in the world right now, with fantastic composure and pinpoint accuracy. Your defenders backing off a player despite the fact he is the last man; not closing down even when it is common sense that you should close the man down. Goalkeepers acting like they're blindfolded and making the most bone-headed decisions I've ever seen in a game, throwing it to the opposition, yet there is a teammate far to the left with no one marking him. These things need improving because it is making the game a chore to play through.

I really hope you sort these things out, because it is ruining your game.

Thats why we have the option of playing FMC.

[no_mad]

I was very unceremoniously asked to post this here instead. At least I think I'm posting in the right place. Because my comments probably have nothing to do with this particular patch's changes, so it doesn't seem right. It's a long post (sorry), so I thought it deserved it's own thread. Apparently it's not good enough. I don't know. *shrug*

EDIT by RTHerringbone - What I actually stated was "The feedback thread has itself become a discussion thread, so I'm not sure what your thread offers that is different enough to warrant being a thread in it's own right." Bit different, really.

Okay, firstly I want to make it abundantly clear that I really love the game as a whole. It is, in my opinion, the best of the series as a "product". However, I have some SERIOUS gripes, and this is not unique to this version.

With that said, I welcome any feedback and criticism of my points of view from SI or any of the community members. It is a discussions and I would love to hear your thoughts on this. This largely covers the Match Engine and how the players go about their business on the pitch. I am completely aware that there's a boatload of variables - both hidden and as player attributes - to consider when it comes to how player decisions are made in the game and trust me, I have factored these in, but this is coming from roughly three years of collective game playing and noting certain trends and patterns, along with increasing frustration at how little control I actually have.

We'll start with some of the more obvious things. I'm getting pretty sick of conceding goals because defenders are incapable of actually defending. Standing around, not bothering to make tackles (safe or otherwise), etc. This includes delightful occurances such as own goal from a free kick off of a defender on the line, who didn't even move. The ball bounced down off the crossbar, hit the motionless defender and it bobbled into the net. D'oh.

I'm sick of having balls hoofed downfield by the opposition (usually the 'keepers) and a man who is fairly nearby sort-of meanders towards it and ends up not getting there in time as an opposition player sprints towards it and gets possession - all this just because the match engine seems to deem it sensible for only one player to chase the ball - often someone who is a lot further away from the ball, behind the opposition player so he'll never get there. This is surely stupidity. Also, stop letting balls run out for thrown-ins all the time when you have a player just there who can go after it and start another attack. Very few football teams actually play like that.

I'm getting frustrated with players with 16+ Pace and Acceleration constantly getting beaten to the ball by defenders with (often significantly) less than that, who have had to turn around and run backwards, to retrieve a ball. They almost always get there and even then can still keep going. Pish.

On the subject of wide-men, I'm UTTERLY TIRED of wingers and inside-forwards who get the ball in a more central location ALWAYS going wide in situations where if you would keep going straight you could get one-on-one with the keeper or at least be fouled by a defender. But no, he'll run wide, get swamped by two or more defenders and THEN attempt to cross or pass the ball. Where's the intelligence??? Which brings me to my next point...

When to pass, when to shoot, and when to hold on to the ball. I'm at my wits end with this one - it's my big issue. Players hardly ever pass when it's a good time to pass, or cross. No no, they will wait until they're crowded by defenders or at arbitrary angles, and THEN try to pass or cross ... or shoot for goal. What happens? Of course, it ricochet's off a defender. Opportunity usually wasted. These are quality players I'm talking about here. 15+ decisions, passing, etc. I understand pressure situations, away games, rivalries, being behind, various other factors may lead to occasional or infrequent bad decisions. BUT ALL THE TIME? I have lost or drawn so many games because of absolutely ridiculous decision making like this. Bearing down on the keeper (with defenders looming) and the player slows down and contemplates the meaning of life, with the end result that he gets crowded out, then shoots. WTF? WHY? NO PLAYER WOULD EVER DO THAT!!!! Pretty much every player will shoot. Fine, it hits the keeper, okay. Or he skies it, okay. But to not shoot until the chance of success is literally 1% ... really? And all players? Every game? There hasn't been one single game where I haven't asked FM - out loud - why the hell the player did that? :confused:

There seems to be far too stark a difference between "Work the ball into the box" (translation: pass the ball around until you're swamped by defenders, then lose possession in one of the many creative ways described above) versus not having "Work the ball into the box" (translation: shoot, no matter what. No seriously, just shoot. Angles? Pfft. Defenders? Pfft. Straight at the keeper? Why not?!) - again this can all be fixed with better decision-making. I don't understand what's so difficult with the logic flow of "Is Player X more likely to score than me? Maybe, if I pass to him will he be able to take a better-percentage shot than me? Yes? Okay, I'll pass instead, because scoring more goals is ALWAYS a good thing." ... but this seems to be completely missing. Open players bearing down on the keeper as passing targets, but player shoots wide, or hits defender instead... All the time. Two on one situations. Shoots without thought... All the time. This happens ALL THE TIME, with players with both good and average decision-making skill and mental fortitude, in all club situations I have ever seen. Winning, losing, dominating, sucking ... it doesn't matter.

I also find that there's a severe lack of actual creative play. At all. Despite having creative players and formations and instructions that promote running into channels, making space, drawing away defenders ... players make runs occasionally and from time to time a nice move is put together, but nowhere near frequently enough for it to be considered vaguely realistic. Too often I've seen players TURN AROUND TO FACE THEIR DEFENSIVE LINE, hold the ball, and pass it back. Yes, I get that there may not have been a good attacking passing target at that time, but this happens through MOST of the game. Where are the surging runs from the back? Where are the numerous runs that pacy and creative and intelligent players make all the time??? Hardly to be found anywhere. I'll usually get three or four decent runs a game, but due to the above decision making, clear scoring opportunities simply don't happen because of stupidity.

Which brings me to the home/away thing... and this one is the most likely to be an issue with me and not the game itself, but I frequently find that lesser teams are way too strong at home, and AI-controlled away teams have this totally obscure and random tendency to play like Barcalona when neither their current form, punditry, player quality nor team morale warrants such play. It comes to the point where I fear any away fixture in the league or (especially) a cup. Doesn't matter who the opposition is, if I'm at home at least I have a bit of a chance, but even then who knows if Crystal Palace will thrash me for no good reason. Maybe this is just happening to me, but I really hate away fixtures because I just feel like there's forces at work that shouldn't be there. Upsets happen - I get that - but bottom-of-the-table teams often seem to play extremely well against me and less well against everybody else.

My rant is over. Comments most welcome

Agree with this. The decisions/creativity/pace difference issues are on FM 13 as well.

[Beestonite]

Quite interesting reading all of this as I haven't bought FM14. But it's interesting because a lot of the issues here were also issues in FM12 and even more so in FM13. As a long term classic tactic fan I'm experimenting with the TC for a season on 13 to see if it gives me any interest in buying 14 and I must say it's a nightmare compared with classic tactics IMO. Finished 6th which was fine but I played with only one forward and no matter what I did I only ended up with 36 goals yet only conceded 26. Plenty of 1-0 wins bar a Cup Final at the end of a 25 match unbeaten run in which lower League opposition beat me 1-0 with their only shot of the game (a penalty!). The seeming randomness and lack of control I feel with the TC has put me off and I came on here with an open mind with 14. After reading some of these posts though I think I'll just go back to 12!!!

Totally agree with you here. I'm in exactly the same boat as you, as in trying tactics creator for the first time and giving it a real go - not just quitting after a few days.

I have to say though that the results are pretty random. In FM12 and below, I occasionally used to see my team dominating a game from start to finish, seeing individuals in the team who I had bought to do a job, do that job. They stood out as controlled games. It was marvellous to watch. I haven't had a single game like that yet on FM13. In the simulation I'm finding it hard to distinguish who the good players are and who the average ones are. If I didn't have the name above their heads to recognise the individual, they'd all look the same and play the same. It's a shame because football is enjoyable to watch and skillful individuals are a joy to watch when it's done correctly, but I feel this is missing in FM13 and the limited time I spend on FM14, I have found it's the same.

If Luis Suarez was signed for Harrogate Town in real life, he would stand out like a sore thumb. In FM I reckon he'd just blend in to the rest of the team, based on what I've seen so far.

The ME produces a lot of messy matches too. It's all ricochets and rebounds and missed passes, not good to watch. Don't get me wrong, there are occasional patches in games where it looks ok but it's few and far between. Makes me wonder if this new 'tactics creator' is doing more harm than good.

[RTHerringbone]

Makes me wonder if this new 'tactics creator' is doing more harm than good.

Issues with the Match Day experience will be nothing to do with the tactical interface.

You could have 200 notch sliders and it wouldn't make a difference if there was a fundamental match engine issue.

[Beestonite]

Issues with the Match Day experience will be nothing to do with the tactical interface.

You could have 200 notch sliders and it wouldn't make a difference if there was a fundamental match engine issue.

I meant in relation to the lack of control I have over my team. The random nature of their actions and the lack of flow to the game. Surely the tactics and how they are created have an influence on how the match pans out? I am of course assuming as I don't know but it would appear to be logical to me?

[Äktsjon Männ]

I meant in relation to the lack of control I have over my team. The random nature of their actions and the lack of flow to the game. Surely the tactics and how they are created have an influence on how the match pans out? I am of course assuming as I don't know but it would appear to be logical to me?

They have. The problem is that the game is very unforgiving for what it deems as bad tactical base. The result is players making ridiculous mistakes and generally looking like they've never seen a football before. If you make fundamental mistakes with the more abstract parts of your tactics (like role/duty combinations along with strategy and philosophy) then whatever direct instructions you're trying to give won't have anything like the desired effect.

[Beestonite]

They have. The problem is that the game is very unforgiving for what it deems as bad tactical base. The result is players making ridiculous mistakes and generally looking like they've never seen a football before. If you make fundamental mistakes with the more abstract parts of your tactics (like role/duty combinations along with strategy and philosophy) then whatever direct instructions you're trying to give won't have anything like the desired effect.

One of my main gripes with FM13/14 is the decision making of players. For example, if I tell my winger to hug the touchline, then he does it, great. However, if he is presented with a glorious chance to run through the middle or make an obvious through pass to a striker, I expect him to take it, not run towards the touchline because I told him to. This isn't North Korea, it's ok if you want to use your initiative. Acts like this aren't really realistic, yet are common place in the game since FM13. That's what I mean by the lack of control.

Things like this have been in the game for years though. I can't think of how many times I've seen, for example, a full back tracking back to try and cut off the run of an opposing attacker, only to stop because his 'grid' on the pitch which he covers doesn't stretch to where the attacker has now ventured and therefore it's no longer his responsibility - leaving the attacker to have a clear run through at goal. Of course once the full back stops because his instructions don't cover that grid/zone on the pitch, a CD will then be activated and he will make a ridiculous last ditch attempt at getting back - of course failing 99% of the time because he was saying hi to his friend in the stands before become 'active' and aware of the situation.

Sounds harsh and very critical. I couldn't do better myself so shouldn't moan, but I'm British, it's what I do best. This game has given me thousands of hours of fun over the years and I don't ever forget that.

[forameuss]

One of my main gripes with FM13/14 is the decision making of players. For example, if I tell my winger to hug the touchline, then he does it, great. However, if he is presented with a glorious chance to run through the middle or make an obvious through pass to a striker, I expect him to take it, not run towards the touchline because I told him to. This isn't North Korea, it's ok if you want to use your initiative. Acts like this aren't really realistic, yet are common place in the game since FM13. That's what I mean by the lack of control.

Things like this have been in the game for years though. I can't think of how many times I've seen, for example, a full back tracking back to try and cut off the run of an opposing attacker, only to stop because his 'grid' on the pitch which he covers doesn't stretch to where the attacker has now ventured and therefore it's no longer his responsibility - leaving the attacker to have a clear run through at goal. Of course once the full back stops because his instructions don't cover that grid/zone on the pitch, a CD will then be activated and he will make a ridiculous last ditch attempt at getting back - of course failing 99% of the time because he was saying hi to his friend in the stands before become 'active' and aware of the situation.

Sounds harsh and very critical. I couldn't do better myself so shouldn't moan, but I'm British, it's what I do best. This game has given me thousands of hours of fun over the years and I don't ever forget that.

That would be the holy grail to be honest. I'm not sure it's possible at the moment though. To have players use their own free will to over-ride tactical instructions and then make those decisions only when it is advantageous, that's going to take a pretty sophisticated AI. And then I can see people coming on here and complaining that "the stupid winger isn't hugging the touchline like I asked - worst ME EVAR!!".

I completely agree with you though - if it was possible, and done properly, this would be fantastic.

[jc1]

would i also see him waiting with the ball,letting defenders closing him down instead of crossing when he has a very large open window and the box is full of manU players?

But you never said this in your post, you can't add something afterwards, then make out I was wrong in saying what I said.

[stevemc]

Here's a pearler

[video=youtube;GR5vKR1H3vI]

Genuinely laughed out loud despite it being against my team

(And yes, pkm uploaded and not moaning, just found it amusing.)

When I was complaining about poor goalkeepers the other day, this is exactly what I mean't by it. Not goalkeepers playing poorly, but committing repetitive unrealistic instances like this.

And the fact it goes down as an own goal too.

[Äktsjon Männ]

When I was complaining about poor goalkeepers the other day, this is exactly what I mean't by it. Not goalkeepers playing poorly, but committing repetitive unrealistic instances like this.

And the fact it goes down as an own goal too.

It was an own goal. The three guys rushing it in the net were Telford defenders, one of them toe-pokes it in.

[jc1]

It was an own goal. The three guys rushing it in the net were Telford defenders, one of them toe-pokes it in.

Erm I think he was on about the goalkeeper acting like a prat, then the defenders scoring instead of clearing the ball, all comedy gold from FM14

[stevemc]

Erm I think he was on about the goalkeeper acting like a prat, then the defenders scoring instead of clearing the ball, all comedy gold from FM14

Correct.

[King Costly]

Can't believe set-pieces and especially corners are still broken just like they were in FM13. Defending set pieces match focus makes absolutely no difference and I'd say at least a quarter (probably nearer half) of my conceded goals are from corners or free-kicks. Very frustrating and almost a game breaker for me.

[glenn28]

The contact bug is fixed so happy with that but a fix for transfer needs to be done before the feb/march update because getting to many low fee wasnt like that before 14.2 & to many own goals as well since the update apart from that happy with it

[mhaffy]

In previous versions of FM you could specficy your main playmaker. In FM14 I am playing with a DLP (S) and AP (S) - is there a way of choosing which of these two should be your main playmaker?

[Beestonite]

In previous versions of FM you could specficy your main playmaker. In FM14 I am playing with a DLP (S) and AP (S) - is there a way of choosing which of these two should be your main playmaker?

There is a tick box at the bottom of the tactics screen. I think it's either in 'Overview' or 'Team' tabs. It's there with Target Man and some other option, I can't remember what. Tick that then choose the position I believe, not the player. Of course if you play the same guy in the same position all the time, he will be the regular Playmaker.

It's that way in FM13, not sure about 14....

[HUNT3R]

In previous versions of FM you could specficy your main playmaker. In FM14 I am playing with a DLP (S) and AP (S) - is there a way of choosing which of these two should be your main playmaker?

You can't specify, they share equal responsibility. As to who will be used more? That'll depend on your play style.

[RTHerringbone]

In previous versions of FM you could specficy your main playmaker. In FM14 I am playing with a DLP (S) and AP (S) - is there a way of choosing which of these two should be your main playmaker?

Playmaker focus is dictated by the Roles you use (Playmakers are regarded as DLP, AP, Trequartista, Regista and Enganache).

If you select more than one such Role, they theoretically receive equal passing focus, but obviously the position of the ball will dictate which actually is the preferred passing option at that point in time.

[Äktsjon Männ]

You can't specify, they share equal responsibility. As to who will be used more? That'll depend on your play style.

Do they? There was a specifically coded behavior that made all players look for the designated playmaker in earlier versions. The game automatically assigned the primary playmaker role to one of your players if you used more than one PM role. I've not seen any kind of confirmation about any changes to this. It's probably the same mechanics underneath, we just can't see which PM is selected as primary.

[Beestonite]

Playmaker focus is dictated by the Roles you use (Playmakers are regarded as DLP, AP, Trequartista, Regista and Enganache).

If you select more than one such Role, they theoretically receive equal passing focus, but obviously the position of the ball will dictate which actually is the preferred passing option at that point in time.

Makes sense really, if you choose that position to be DLP then they are by default playing as a Playmaker. You shouldn't have to then choose who you want that to be too.

Is this different in FM14 to FM13 then? In FM13 you can specify which position you want the Playmaker to be.

[HUNT3R]

Do they? There was a specifically coded behavior that made all players look for the designated playmaker in earlier versions. The game automatically assigned the primary playmaker role to one of your players if you used more than one PM role. I've not seen any kind of confirmation about any changes to this. It's probably the same mechanics underneath, we just can't see which PM is selected as primary.

Yeah. RTH just said the same thing that I did above your post

[HUNT3R]

Makes sense really, if you choose that position to be DLP then they are by default playing as a Playmaker. You shouldn't have to then choose who you want that to be too.

Is this different in FM14 to FM13 then? In FM13 you can specify which position you want the Playmaker to be.

With the removal of sliders, they (playmaker and target man) tick boxes went too. It's all automatically selected when choosing roles now.

[Äktsjon Männ]

Makes sense really, if you choose that position to be DLP then they are by default playing as a Playmaker. You shouldn't have to then choose who you want that to be too.

The difference is what happens when you play, say DLP and AP at the same time. Before FM14 the primary playmaker duty would be assigned to one of them through some kind of TC logic. I've not seen any indication from the developers that this has changed, but it might have I suppose.

[Äktsjon Männ]

Yeah. RTH just said the same thing that I did above your post

With respect, RTH is not a developer of the ME or TC. If he has any official confirmation on this then fair enough.

[pixie]

about 12 hours ago Removed ogg – 103582791433996948

about 12 hours ago Changed changenumber – 364519 › 367380

New fix coming ?

[milnerpoint]

With respect, RTH is not a developer of the ME or TC. If he has any official confirmation on this then fair enough.

He is repeating an official line tho, from either Brock or Riz maybe, i definitely remember reading that from an SI dev a few months back.

[Cleon]

He is repeating an official line tho, from either Brock or Riz maybe, i definitely remember reading that from an SI dev a few months back.

It was posted in the last feedback thread.

[Äktsjon Männ]

He is repeating an official line tho, from either Brock or Riz maybe, i definitely remember reading that from an SI dev a few months back.

As I said, if that is the case then fair enough.

[Beestonite]

about 12 hours ago Removed ogg – 103582791433996948

about 12 hours ago Changed changenumber – 364519 › 367380

New fix coming ?

Er....YES!

[forameuss]

about 12 hours ago Removed ogg – 103582791433996948

about 12 hours ago Changed changenumber – 364519 › 367380

New fix coming ?

Where are you seeing that?

[pixie]

Where are you seeing that?

http://steamdb.info/app/231670/#section_history

[forameuss]

http://steamdb.info/app/231670/#section_history

You have too much time on your hands

Possibly could be an update, but just as likely not. I'd be surprised if there was so soon after 14.2.1 personally, but happy to be proved wrong.

[Dagenham_Dave]

The last update was more a hotfix for non ME issues, so there could be an ME update soon.

[stevemc]

Hope so, tweeks are much needed.

[Beestonite]

The last update was more a hotfix for non ME issues, so there could be an ME update soon.

Whoah! Put that crystal ball down, you're freaking me out!

[RTHerringbone]

With respect, RTH is not a developer of the ME or TC. If he has any official confirmation on this then fair enough.

Consider it official, as it is something I sought clarification about.

Essentially, if you have multiple playmakers, they will generally be treated equally in terms of the AI.

Factors such as the Playmaker(s) proximity to the ball carrier and the passing setting of that ball carrier (or the team where no Player Instruction is applied) also influence the decision of who to pass to.

There are a couple of reasons for removing the old Primary Playmaker tick-box. Firstly, it allowed users to select non-Playmaking Roles to be Playmaker, and this arguably isn't logical. Secondly, if you have more than one Playmaking Role, the argument is that by definition, you want them on the ball and dictating play, so why directly favour one over the other? As stated earlier, the distribution to these players is weighted by things like proximity to ball carrier and passing styles.

[Dagenham_Dave]

Whoah! Put that crystal ball down, you're freaking me out!

I hope they don't change too much though, I'm finding it just about right at the moment. The main things I'd like to see fixed is better/more intelligent defensive headers at corners, and more varied options when a winger/striker is running towards goal (ie more cutbacks, dinks over the keeper, or taking it round the keeper rather than just blasting it at goal the majority of the time).

Perhaps tone down keeper errors, or else improve animations when the errors are made, as I'd hate to see errors eradicated from the game. I like the way players mis-control passes now, it adds to the realism. Anyone who watches football for more than the odd highlight on MOTD knows that players make far more mistakes in real life than they do in this game, so having more of that ups the realism. That said, once again some of the animations should make it clearer this is what's happening.

Other than that, I think ME-wise, things are just about there. Other parts of the game have been more bugged than usual this year which is disappointing, but at least they're being fixed relatively quickly.

[RTHerringbone]

http://steamdb.info/app/231670/#section_history

These Steam histories have been circulated before, and absolutely do not mean that an update is pending.

There can be all manner of reasons behind that Steam record update.

If it did mean anything, we'd have had updates 6 days ago, 9 days ago, 11 days ago, 12 days ago.....

Please do not try and jump the gun. An update will be announced when it is available.

[Äktsjon Männ]

Consider it official, as it is something I sought clarification about.

Essentially, if you have multiple playmakers, they will generally be treated equally in terms of the AI.

Factors such as the Playmaker(s) proximity to the ball carrier and the passing setting of that ball carrier (or the team where no Player Instruction is applied) also influence the decision of who to pass to.

There are a couple of reasons for removing the old Primary Playmaker tick-box. Firstly, it allowed users to select non-Playmaking Roles to be Playmaker, and this arguably isn't logical. Secondly, if you have more than one Playmaking Role, the argument is that by definition, you want them on the ball and dictating play, so why directly favour one over the other? As stated earlier, the distribution to these players is weighted by things like proximity to ball carrier and passing styles.

Makes sense

[jc1]

The only thing I want fixed is strikers/IF/wingers final ball intelligence looked at, fed up seeing wingers/IF taking shots at goals from ridiculous angles when a pass is a better option, also with strikers shooting directly at keeper instead of going round or even lobbing them.

[Beestonite]

I hope they don't change too much though, I'm finding it just about right at the moment. The main things I'd like to see fixed is better/more intelligent defensive headers at corners, and more varied options when a winger/striker is running towards goal (ie more cutbacks, dinks over the keeper, or taking it round the keeper rather than just blasting it at goal the majority of the time).

Perhaps tone down keeper errors, or else improve animations when the errors are made, as I'd hate to see errors eradicated from the game. I like the way players mis-control passes now, it adds to the realism. Anyone who watches football for more than the odd highlight on MOTD knows that players make far more mistakes in real life than they do in this game, so having more of that ups the realism. That said, once again some of the animations should make it clearer this is what's happening.

Other than that, I think ME-wise, things are just about there. Other parts of the game have been more bugged than usual this year which is disappointing, but at least they're being fixed relatively quickly.

I agree, I think the animations have a lot to answer for. I mentioned it somewhere in another thread, that they recruited some superstar animator/graphics whizz of the gaming world, possibly from EA and worked on FIFA?? If I have my facts right, I had hoped for better progress than what we have seen so far. Not much has changed graphically in three years. Yes, things are a little sharper here and there but nothing drastic at all. Maybe he left, I don't know.

I think if the animations were better representing the ME, over 50% of the complaints about the ME would disappear.

[Äktsjon Männ]

I agree, I think the animations have a lot to answer for. I mentioned it somewhere in another thread, that they recruited some superstar animator/graphics whizz of the gaming world, possibly from EA and worked on FIFA?? If I have my facts right, I had hoped for better progress than what we have seen so far. Not much has changed graphically in three years. Yes, things are a little sharper here and there but nothing drastic at all. Maybe he left, I don't know.

I think if the animations were better representing the ME, over 50% of the complaints about the ME would disappear.

To be fair, it actually has changed quite a lot. I recently loaded up FM12 just for fun and the difference is pretty stark, especially in the level of detail. Thing is though, the way it works means the 3D animation is determined by what happens underneath in the ME code, instead of it all being primarily a graphical engine that's getting a limited amount of inputs from the tactical module like, say, fifa manager. That's why it lacks the fluidity that you see in an arcade game like FIFA or PES.

[luigiluigi]

Every game my striker plays and doesnt score, I get a press conference question stating this is "Another game where ... has failed to score", even if he scores the week before. Then when he scores, I get a question asking about him ending his drought.

[BenSammy]

There have been some really good posts in the last couple of pages explaining the errors of this game, and I want to expand on those..

After all, this is a feedback thread, and only by being critical can SI produce a game worthy of absolute praise..

I except that it's almost an impossibility to get everything right, but such an attitude isn't acceptable for some of the behavior we see in game.

I'll also make it clear, that despite having moments of utter hatred for the game and pure disillusionment at the seeming way at which it's customers are treated and what we are expected to accept, I do enjoy the game, and I do believe, sometimes against my better judgement, that SI wants to make the best game possible..

I've been thinking of writing some threads for awhile now, I realized that the post would be far to long to include everything, so decided to split them up, but then stumbled upon some really good posts here that have managed to not be deleted, and as such, will simply talk about my latest peeve with the game, and possibly the most breaking.

It's the seeming lack of individuality of teams and players and the general overpowered nature of the tactics and the way the determine the outcome of matches in ways they probably shouldn't..

I'm going to to start with the ability to score..

This has been an issue for me, and has for many others..

I remember after a patch came out going into a new season, my 40+ goals a season striker for 5 seasons in a row was suddenly missing everything. It's not that he was taking bad shots, it's that he simply refused to put the ball in the back of the net..

I changed one, just one of his player instructions to 'Hold Position' and he started banging in goals left right and centre. This was after reloading two particular games a total of 50 times just to see if he would score..In those 50 games, my 40+ Goals a seasons striker scored 6 goals, 3 of which were penalties..

A little odd..

I've explored this some more, by accident really. The next time I noticed the PI or roles effecting the ability of a player to score was with the same player for two of m different teams..

It's Will Hughes..Same age, same ability, in one save he plays for Lazio, the other for Watford..

In my Lazio save he plays as an Attacking Midfielder, and scored goals for fun, absolute screamers too..For my Watford Team I employed him as a Shadow Striker, and while he was getting the same chances and just as much, he was missing those chances instead, against worse opposition.

I don't think this is just a striker thing..

I experimented some more - I built a strikerless tactic, with 3 defenders in the attacking midfield positions.. This tactic for some reasons worked and despite playing players out of position, my 3 defenders scored for fun.

The point is just how much something like PI or player role effects the ability of a player to perform, thus largely negating the individual ability of the players themselves.

Other area's in which tactics are overpowered, and I'm not the first to mention this, is playing against inferior opposition.

As a much better side, I should be able to by virtue of having better players and a tactic that has won back to back league titles and Champions League titles, shouldn't have to conform so greatly to the whims of Skrill North Opposition..

This isn't a magic button that suddenly allows these teams to beat the likes of Man Utd, or find all the holes in you team and so successfully exploit them, and look like Barcelona while doing so..

Yet in this ME there is..

The game determines that your tactics determines the result of the game..Pushing Individuality to the wayside and producing scenarios that don't exist in real life..

Some people ask, why on earth did my keeper throw himself to the ground as the ball bounces slowly towards him as he allows it to bounce over his now prone body, to get back up and kick it in his own net..

People cry, "It's your tactics" - And it is, it is your tactics, but this isn't a good thing, it's exactly what's wrong with how games are simulated and only goes as far as to show that simple things like getting a PI slightly wrong can have such a detrimental effect in ways that it wouldn't in real life situations..

But the game has said you're going to concede, so you're going to concede, whether that's the opposition waltzing through you like barcelona or your goalie running to the center circle to make angels..

Science is deterministic. It's why when you see stupid things occur in the game you can correctly surmise that the game has determined that your tactics have determined that you're going to lose or concede..It's not always this black and white..

For more info on this...Read the 'Football Manager is not Random' Section of Cleon's magazine..

While I respect the intention of that particular segment, it's also the reason for all these problems, and while trying to stop people breaking the ME with stupid tactics that exploit the ME so we can makes game more realistic, what's actually happened is that too much emphasis is put on tactics and we get scenario;s and outcomes that go against what the developers want..

So on and So forth...

I'm bored of writing now..

Not even gonna edit mistakes..

[MrPompey]

about 12 hours ago Removed ogg – 103582791433996948

about 12 hours ago Changed changenumber – 364519 › 367380

New fix coming ?

How many times have you been told about your trolling posts saying new fix coming

Do you think asking makes them come quicker.....I've got news for you !

[pixie]

How many times have you been told about your trolling posts saying new fix coming

Do you think asking makes them come quicker.....I've got news for you !

Because I want to start a new career without bugs in the match engine, I'm looking forward to the new fix