cainite Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 another example where he definitely has a passing option still elects to shoot Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
forameuss Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 As has been said, screenshots give just a tiny slice of information. Raise it in the bugs forum and add a .pkm. This is going to achieve nothing. Or at least make a gif with the passage of play, you'll tell a million times more with that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cainite Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 As has been said, screenshots give just a tiny slice of information. Raise it in the bugs forum and add a .pkm. This is going to achieve nothing. Or at least make a gif with the passage of play, you'll tell a million times more with that. i did so, many times before other patches came out and still they don't pass. don't know how to make gifs(least of all out of FM) but the pic is clear vietto chooses to shoot instead of passing the ball to his right. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
petergoddard Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Looking back through the years, it seems a pretty regular occurrence in Portugal to have four or even five teams on or less than 1 goal per game.Please bring it up in the bugs forum if you haven't already Thanks. And you are right. SI does have to consider that there are several less competitive leagues, so that trend in the top european leagues does not apply to the others Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
solon Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 i'm so sorry just one or two more do you think this is normal too? btw it's a freekick Don't know if this has been fixed in the latest patch but one of the reasons I stopped having players cover the posts during free kicks was because of situations like these. They cancel the offside trap and made it easier for the other team to simple pass the ball to one of their running players. If this situation is treated like a corner why do all the defending players (except the two cancelling the offside trap) stand behind the ball? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPompey Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 If it happens regularly then it may be a bug and worth logging in the bugs forum From an FM perspective what i sthe players teamwork rating, he may simply be a selfish player. We say see this in real matches all the time with top players at top clubs electing to shoot from range or poor angle when it seems simpler or a sure bet goal to pass to a team mate I do think think sometoies that the same frustratioms FM Managers have when watching the FM games are in fact the very same frsutrations the real life manager's are having. Look at Moyes last night blaming everyone but himself and his players. In FM terms the FM Managers are blaming the ME and everyone else but theur tactics If FM is simulating this level of real life manager frustration perhaps the FM product has actually moved up a level Now thats food for thought Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cainite Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 If it happens regularly then it may be a bug and worth logging in the bugs forumFrom an FM perspective what i sthe players teamwork rating, he may simply be a selfish player. We say see this in real matches all the time with top players at top clubs electing to shoot from range or poor angle when it seems simpler or a sure bet goal to pass to a team mate I do think think sometoies that the same frustratioms FM Managers have when watching the FM games are in fact the very same frsutrations the real life manager's are having. Look at Moyes last night blaming everyone but himself and his players. In FM terms the FM Managers are blaming the ME and everyone else but theur tactics If FM is simulating this level of real life manager frustration perhaps the FM product has actually moved up a level Now thats food for thought so when he gets the ball long way from the post he is selfish, but when he's in front of the goal he somehow gets generous enough to pass the ball back to a teammate instead of touching the ball in.truly realistic Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
forameuss Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 so when he gets the ball long way from the post he is selfish, but when he's in front of the goal he somehow gets generous enough to pass the ball back to a teammate instead of touching the ball in.truly realistic So it's the same player in both situations? Your screenshots seem to disagree... You're just making stuff up now to suit your argument. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cainite Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 and now my team puts up a three man wall. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagenham_Dave Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 so when he gets the ball long way from the post he is selfish, but when he's in front of the goal he somehow gets generous enough to pass the ball back to a teammate instead of touching the ball in.truly realistic At the game I was at on Saturday (I actually go to watch real football, y'know) we scored a last minute winner via a breakaway. Our left midfielder broke clear and he had a simple ball to play the striker in for a tap in. Instead he shot himself from just outside the box. The better options were taking it further in or clearing it, but he took it himself. Luckily he scored a peach, as he's not that popular a player at the moment, and I'd have been screaming with rage had he missed... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurnCM4X Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 I wasn't sure what the best angle was to capture this, but it's a belter. The keeper has obviously noticed someone in the stand selling hot dogs and just can't resist rushing over....meanwhile my winger has an open goal (he did score!) Obviously! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangerpuss Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Counter-attacking is currently completely overpowered, mainly because playing an offside trap doesn't work. Club Brugge who are extremely average managed to make it to the Champions League final and were dominated in every single game they played against Madrid, Shaktar and Barca. Yet they scored more goals simply by sitting back and hitting long balls. This is also the reason that Barca and Arsenal are usually much worse than reality. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackter Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 How did Greece win the Euros again? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagenham_Dave Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 How did Greece win the Euros again? Portugal bottled it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangerpuss Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Possession based teams generally do seem to under-perform. I've never seen Barca win La Liga. Not in any recent Football Manager game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagenham_Dave Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Possession based teams generally do seem to under-perform. I've never seen Barca win La Liga. Not in any recent Football Manager game. Seriously? I've had multiple saves going in this game alone, and Barca win La Liga (at least in the first season) every single time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangerpuss Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Seriously? I've had multiple saves going in this game alone, and Barca win La Liga (at least in the first season) every single time. In my current save they've finished 3rd in the first two seasons. Behind Real and Atletico both times. Real have won it twice. Part of that is bad squad management as they seem to have difficulty buying any defenders and partly because they struggle against good counter-attacking sides. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thengil Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Please please PLEASE fix the defending corner issues. This is just awful right now. The norm is NOT for a defender to head the ball straight back into the six yard box, you clear it as far away from goal as possible. Unfortunately, the former is the norm in the ME right now. Also, either fix what constitutes a clear cut chance or get clear cut chance conversion rates nearer to real life. http://eplindex.com/47486/clear-cut-finishing-analysis-suarez-aguero-giroud-rooney-compared.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon157uk Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Haha - I was always a kid behind the bike shedsI guess you were the kid always picked last when teams were selected? No, I never hung around long enough to be 'picked' for anything, I did the picking! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon157uk Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Quote Originally Posted by cainite View Post why the hell would he shoot from all the way up from there especially when i selected shoot less often? What else is he going to do with that ball? All the other players on his team are being marked. It's a poor offensive shape limiting the options for him to take. No way! In real life, as the saying goes, the two guys over on the left would be looking at making runs in to space behind those two defenders, or maybe the nearest one of them would even make a run across the front of his 'marker' to give a shorter option. The centre mid just behind him would also be looking at getting further forward to give another option, Is Werner supposed to say to the two guys defending him 'Hey, don't take the ball off me I'm just waiting here for ten minutes while the rest of my team wake up'?.. It doesn't happen because the game can't do it and I don't agree it's his tactics that cause this. No matter what tactic I've tried there is very little evidence of any kind of support play what so ever. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CityAndColour Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Problem with a still screenshot is it doesn't tell you what the movements of those around the player with the ball are. They could be striving to get forward but Werner is too far ahead due to his determination to shoot. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon157uk Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Problem with a still screenshot is it doesn't tell you what the movements of those around the player with the ball are. They could be striving to get forward but Werner is too far ahead due to his determination to shoot. Yes that's very true of course. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTHerringbone Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 another example where he definitely has a passing option still elects to shoot The guy to his right? The one behind play who he might not have seen? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cainite Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 The guy to his right? The one behind play who he might not have seen? might not have seen? training with the same tactic for months? playing together for years? fact that i gave vietto a supporting duty (F9) and Assale being CM(a) who is instructed to make forward runs(as he did in that case) have you ever watch a real game?and i am sorry i really don't mean to offend but you actually say that he didn't pass because he didn't see him. what you say suggest that there's a truly realistic sense to this game which would make sense i mean he actually might not have seen him.but then something like this happen:i see my AP who high on the pitch make a back pass to my goal keeper from 60 meter when he has much better options and then GK gives the ball away to opposition. and this belies your sayings. and yet another instance and this too ends up in a goal since one one bothered to for up a wall and close his angle but of course to you that somehow seems normal Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTHerringbone Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 might not have seen? training with the same tactic for months? playing together for years? fact that i gave vietto a supporting duty (F9) and Assale being CM(a) who is instructed to make forward runs(as he did in that case) have you ever watch a real game?and i am sorry i really don't mean to offend but you actually say that he didn't pass because he didn't see him. I said "might not have seen". You see everything in black and white, but need to consider that what you think you see isn't necessarily correct all the time. As I've said before, post in the Bugs Forum and get an official SI response if you are so blinkered that you refuse to consider the opinion of mere mortals. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cainite Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 I said "might not have seen". You see everything in black and white, but need to consider that what you think you see isn't necessarily correct all the time.As I've said before, post in the Bugs Forum and get an official SI response if you are so blinkered that you refuse to consider the opinion of mere mortals. and I've said before i posted many times and did get an official response they said whenever they try to iron a offensive bug out another defensive one pops up. and btw this guys aren't taking a walk in the park they are playing football they are supposed to look around. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 except i did provide it -even named it CLEONwhatevermatch-and concerning the particular ss so from your point of view, the defender got a hold of him ,werner can find time to pass the ball back to a certain player but no able to take a simple shot? No you didn't upload the PKM to the tactics forum liked asked, I told you I couldn't get access to the server you'd put them on. All you did was talk about the events from the game without backing them up when pressed on the matter. At first you claimed you didn't save he game, then you claimed the game crashed and didn't have a save. You did say it happened often though and I told you when it happened again to post the full PKM and the issues you was having in a thread and I'd show you why you are mistaken in some of the things you believe you are seeing. You can check your post history to see all of this Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cainite Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 now why do you think Akif Alıcı refrained from making a perfectly logical pass to Oktay Hoş Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cainite Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 No you didn't upload the PKM to the tactics forum liked asked, I told you I couldn't get access to the server you'd put them on. All you did was talk about the events from the game without backing them up when pressed on the matter. At first you claimed you didn't save he game, then you claimed the game crashed and didn't have a save. You did say it happened often though and I told you when it happened again to post the full PKM and the issues you was having in a thread and I'd show you why you are mistaken in some of the things you believe you are seeing.You can check your post history to see all of this i remember all that the game did crash and i said i posted another one named "CLEONeskisehir vs Besiktas" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beestonite Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 i remember all that the game did crash and i said i posted another one named "CLEONeskisehir vs Besiktas" Your examples of walls being used some of the time but not others isn't quite consistent is it? Where there is no wall, the ball is 5 yards from the touchline. Where there is a wall it's nearly 20 yards, giving a better angle and therefore making it more dangerous and giving the taker more options. Oh and.... Can you please, for the love of God, start use capital letters where appropriate. My eyes are hurting. Just a capital I will be nice instead of i. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cainite Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Your examples of walls being used some of the time but not others isn't quite consistent is it? Where there is no wall, the ball is 5 yards from the touchline. Where there is a wall it's nearly 20 yards, giving a better angle and therefore making it more dangerous and giving the taker more options. Oh and....Can you please, for the love of God, start use capital letters where appropriate. My eyes are hurting. Just a capital I will be nice instead of i. are you referring to the ss in which 3 player rushed to make a wall? and do you think it's logical not to form up a wall in instances such as this Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTHerringbone Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 and I've said before i posted many times and did get an official response they said whenever they try to iron a offensive bug out another defensive one pops up. Here are the type of responses I have seen: The problem for us is that providing one or two PKMs of matches and saying "look how bad this is" is not the easiest way to analyse a bug. For instance, is this match a one-off? As you are playing far into the future (2018), how can I be sure which team has the better players? What exactly in this 90-minute match is a 'bug'?I'm going to need more specifics I'm afraid. Can you provide times for your PKMs highlighting incidents that you believe to be bugs? E.g. 21:54 Striker is ignored by CBs and allowed to get through on goal. As I've said in earlier posts, we're aware of certain issues with this ME (including the ball hitting the woodwork and so on), but PKMs with timed examples are the only things that will help us to improve matters. Thanks. Thanks for this Cainite.There are certainly a few bugs in there, but most are simply breakdowns in play, mistakes, wrong decisions. Things like this happen all the time throughout football matches and cannot be considered bugs. I have taken these examples and added any relevant ones to our exisiting database. Cheers. It's up to you Cainite. The reality is that there will always be 'bugs' in the ME. However, there will also always be genuine defensive mistakes. I'm sure if you broke down the 2nd half you would find a few of both and any bugs I would happily log I do agree that we need more variety in the attacking phases for the ME to make it more exciting to watch. This is something we're trying hard to improve, but it's not easy as for every improvement to attacking play we make, a new defensive bug crops up and vice-versa! So, it sounds as if the official SI line is that yes, there are a few examples of bugs in the thread you opened in the Bugs Forum, but most are genuine breakdowns in play. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beestonite Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 are you referring to the ss in which 3 player rushed to make a wall?and do you think it's logical not to form up a wall in instances such as this Yes, post #2992 where you have 3 players in the wall is clearly different to this one. It's much further from the touchline. However, I wouldn't say that on all occasions this (above) type of example doesn't merit a wall forming. I've certainly seen a two man wall formed in these instances in the Premier League and other Lower Leagues. I can see why there wouldn't be one but I can also see why there would be. To compare the two different examples isn't comparing like for like though is it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTHerringbone Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 and do you think it's logical not to form up a wall in instances such as this If you watch a free kick like that in real football, you would perhaps see one player aiming to disrupt the delivery, but the vast majority of players would be in the box. If you have 2+ players forming a wall to attempt to block the delivery (which rarely works) than you hand the opposition a numerical advantage in the box. There's not much wrong with that image at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cainite Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Yes, post #2992 where you have 3 players in the wall is clearly different to this one. It's much further from the touchline. However, I wouldn't say that on all occasions this (above) type of example doesn't merit a wall forming. I've certainly seen a two man wall formed in these instances in the Premier League and other Lower Leagues. I can see why there wouldn't be one but I can also see why there would be. To compare the two different examples isn't comparing like for like though is it? surely you could see that 3 man wall in that instance is absurd? as it is absurd not to form up even one man wall in this instance Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cainite Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 If you watch a free kick like that in real football, you would perhaps see one player aiming to disrupt the delivery, but the vast majority of players would be in the box.If you have 2+ players forming a wall to attempt to block the delivery (which rarely works) than you hand the opposition a numerical advantage in the box. There's not much wrong with that image at all. yeah btw all of my goals in that game happened in such positions where opposition didn't give any numerical advantage inside the box and in the ensuing chaos my defensive player got to the ball Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beestonite Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 If you watch a free kick like that in real football, you would perhaps see one player aiming to disrupt the delivery, but the vast majority of players would be in the box.If you have 2+ players forming a wall to attempt to block the delivery (which rarely works) than you hand the opposition a numerical advantage in the box. There's not much wrong with that image at all. Not sure I agree with you entirely there, I see it week in week out where two man walls are formed. Here is an example after a very quick search..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beestonite Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 surely you could see that 3 man wall in that instance is absurd? as it is absurd not to form up even one man wall in this instance But the two aren't comparable because of the different positions they're taken from. You were comparing them as if they were. I wouldn't say either is 'absurd'. It's not absurd to not form a wall in one, and it's not absurd to form a three man wall in the other. Maybe excessive to have three in one example and silly not to have one or two in the other but are you telling me you've NEVER seen this in real life? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beestonite Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 I was playing FM14 (usually FM13 or 12 at the minute) last night and I am really struggling with the general movement of players. I had a situation where one of my midfielders was 'cantering' through the middle of the pitch with the ball, the opposing defender was jockeying him probably giving him 3-4 yards space. Then, another opposing players runs backwards in between the two of them to take up his position as the other CM. It's so unrealistic and totally spoils it for me. Another example is a player chasing the ball to the corner flag after an over-hit pass. He gets there after running like a mad man at full pelt, manages to trap the ball and stop it going out, right on the corner of the pitch. In a split second, he manages to then turn and cross the ball. Now I'm sorry, but the speed he was running at, he should have been in row Z with an advertising hoarding lodged in his throat. He shouldn't be able to turn in less than a second (I checked the timing on replay) and then cross the ball. Another example was a misplaced pass from my CM. After it went to the opposing CM he slide tackles immediately to win it back but the ball still rolls to another opposing player two yards away. Despite being on the floor, he then leaps like a Gazelle straight into another sliding tackle to win the ball back again, then gets on his feet calmly and passes the ball where he wanted it to go originally. It was like a 4 year old was playing Fifa and was repeatedly pressing slide tackle. Even a seasoned gymnast would struggle to perform these moves which he made with ease. Serious work is needed on the animations and how they integrate with the ME. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richardh2136 Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Is something going to be done about DFKs? Im really sick to death of watching totti firing them high and wide. Im 15 games into the season and i honestly cant recall seeing him get a single one on target yet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerry58 Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Not sure I agree with you entirely there, I see it week in week out where two man walls are formed.Here is an example after a very quick search..... LOL do you know that this is a FIFA 2011 video, right? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beestonite Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 LOL do you know that this is a FIFA 2011 video, right? Yeah, they're the only one's I could find! It was rather tongue in cheek. There were another two in the search too... Amazing what you can't find on the internet when you need it. Well spotted Sir! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
milnerpoint Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 LOL do you know that this is a FIFA 2011 video, right? HAHAHA you know what i watched it and did not notice!! It must be too early or something Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beestonite Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 HAHAHA you know what i watched it and did not notice!! It must be too early or something I watched the first two in my search (both FIFA too) and thought, damn, I can't make my point. Then I thought, what the hell, it looks real! You're slacking milnerpoint, usually it'd be you pointing this out! Dagenham_Dave will have to review his opinion of you being the best poster on here... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cainite Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 But the two aren't comparable because of the different positions they're taken from. You were comparing them as if they were.I wouldn't say either is 'absurd'. It's not absurd to not form a wall in one, and it's not absurd to form a three man wall in the other. Maybe excessive to have three in one example and silly not to have one or two in the other but are you telling me you've NEVER seen this in real life? no i wasn't comparing them i was just pointing the extreme. a 3 man wall in against a freekick taken long away from the box and zero man wall in a more dangerous position is absurd Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
crowsus Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Not sure I agree with you entirely there, I see it week in week out where two man walls are formed.Here is an example after a very quick search..... Um, that's on FIFA mate... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beestonite Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Um, did you read the above posts... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagenham_Dave Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Um, that's on FIFA mate... Has the Titanic sunk yet? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beestonite Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 no i wasn't comparing them i was just pointing the extreme. a 3 man wall in against a freekick taken long away from the box and zero man wall in a more dangerous position is absurd Not sure I agree that the one nearest the corner flag is more dangerous? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
milnerpoint Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 I watched the first two in my search (both FIFA too) and thought, damn, I can't make my point. Then I thought, what the hell, it looks real!You're slacking milnerpoint, usually it'd be you pointing this out! Dagenham_Dave will have to review his opinion of you being the best poster on here... Oh dont you worry, now i know what your game is, ill be watching you from now on Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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