Football Manager 2014 - Update 14.2.2 - Feedback Thread

[Dagenham_Dave]

What's your rep out of interest? Current one if you don't mind, and what did you start with? I've bitten the bullet and started unemployed as Sunday League, so interested to find out whether I have any chance of re-employment once I've left my massively low-rent first job in lovely Belarus.

Current rep is National, but I've no idea what I set it to when I started. As I just picked Hibs, it would probably have been Automatic.

[forameuss]

Automatic is the default I think, so you're probably right. That's good news. I'm actually less inclined to say that jobs are bugged now either - they seem to have just massively decreased what Sunday League really means to a club. In previous games you could get an MLS job as a Sunday league player, now you only get offers from absolute diddy leagues. It's more realistic this way, if a little frustrating and hard to get used to. It's not perfect yet, but it's alright.

[milnerpoint]

I would have started with auto as well, im getting lots of interview offers, from both the UK and abroad, not that im interested in moving, but i havent yet been offered a new job, no idea if im not passing the interviews or not.

[akkm]

Guardiola made constant minor tweaks in pretty much every game, exploiting width, depth, positioning, player selection. Not including the number of different tactical shapes he came up with (3-4-3, 3-3-4). he was actually a master tinkerer.

he made many MINOR tactical changes alright but ultimately it was the quality of his players which made the difference. Same as the moronic suggestion that Barcelona were ultimately figured out tactically. Under Guardiola's tenure Barcelona faced many tactics and some many times yet they prevailed more often than not due to the high level their players performed to. As their level dropped in the last two years the same tactics they faced and overcame (indeed overwhelmed) many many many times became more effective BUT NOT BECAUSE OF THE TACTICS but because the LEVEL to which barca's players performed was on the decline...same can be seen in spain's relative decline...their players are simply not playing at the same level due to factors such as burnout (tempo not sustainable over full season given number of games they played at high intensity for years, many without proper summer break), xavi ageing and the likes...also they don't have forwards like villa/eto'o quality in their side alleviating the pressure on messi (whose own level has declined...it seems through injury affecting his acceleration etc)...bottom line is it is players level not tactics that decides games the majority of times...tactics can help but are not the determining factor overall...any fool off the street can do what jose used to do Vs barca and just get everyone behind the ball to compress space in barca attacking third...that's not intelligent tactically at all...ask any fool off the street how to stop barca at their peak and 'get players behind the ball' would be most common/obvious approach...as it happens even employing those tactics the likes of inter had to rely on outrageous sequences of collective luck/breaks (sneijder 3rd goal in first leg offside with Portuguese officals having figo in their ear the entire game after barca travelled 24 hours on a bus due to the dust cloud preventing flights and bojan incorrectly disallowed goal in second leg)

Tactics are becoming severely overpowered in the FM series and are in danger of ruining the game and the ME...its been said here (not just by myself) that players intelligence/creativity/anticipation/decision making/off the ball/technical/passing/movement are underdeveloped in the current ME thus limiting the ability to actually simulate football...it is the intangibles as much as anything which separates players/teams at the highest level...xavi has technique comparable with many others but it is how he sees the game which is what elevates him and enables him to dictate the flow of games that few have ever achieved...this with the way the development of the current ME is going is being stifled to the detriment of the simulation.

And yet again just for the record I have found FM14 very easy employing regular tactics...its not that success difficult but the current ME is restrictive/underdeveloped watching high class creative/fluid creative attacking football in top third with the likes of ozil etc not as effective as they should be...and I don't mean I want to see them scythe through defences however I do want to see slick passing and movement in top third whether its successful or not is academic. for now its back to fm12 as I think it will be two years before FM get the current ME as good/balanced as FM12s (PS I don't use the exploit through speedy central attacker to get goals which I've heard so much about in FM12 though Ronaldo IRL play off second leg against Sweden seemed to use that exploit to huge success...also Liverpool 5-0 Vs spurs used ball through balls to players running through very successfully too lol)

[Dagenham_Dave]

any fool off the street can do what jose used to do Vs barca and just get everyone behind the ball to compress space in barca attacking third

The saddest part of this is that you actually believe it.

[Clausdk]

Have you tried clearing the cache? It usually helps for weird situations like that.

This didn't solve the problem.

[HUNT3R]

This didn't solve the problem.

Sorry to hear that. I did a quick search and found this thread: http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/378403-Game-randomly-switches-from-%C2%A3-to?highlight=currency+change

Edit: Clearing preferences: http://www.footballmanager.com/faq/?game=38&id=218 (hope the link works)

[akkm]

The saddest part of this is that you actually believe it.

ha ha whats sadder is that you cannot see it for yourself...look at AVB...has managed porto/Chelsea/spurs yet has shown himself to have the tactical insight of a newt...at what point in his Chelsea/spurs management could he not figure out that his high line wasn't working...was it after his 6 goals conceded against man city or his 5 against Liverpool...and he has been linked with Milan. Eidur Gujohnsen was on sky sports saying Jose coached out of a manual without really understanding what he was doing and said jose took far too much credit for what the players delivered...look at how jose set real Madrid up with players of very very high quality creatively and in an attacking sense yet coached Madrid backwards...as he coached Chelsea backwards before he left...the longer jose stays at a club and the worse the team gets...hardly a coincidence that the two clubs jose has stayed with more than two years get worse as he coaches them. the majority of coaches are reliant on the quality of players at their disposal not the tactics the employ for results...so if jose set up barnet's players exactly the same way as he did inter's Vs barca would it have been the same outcome...OPEN YOUR EYES...jose employs the tactics of a simpleton...incredibly cautious tactics through fear...its setting up a team to play and dominate offensively without losing its shape is what is impressive coaching not jose simple man defend and counter...if you don't see that then you simply dont

[milnerpoint]

Incredible attitude to have.

[HUNT3R]

ha ha whats sadder is that you cannot see it for yourself...look at AVB...has managed porto/Chelsea/spurs yet has shown himself to have the tactical insight of a newt...at what point in his Chelsea/spurs management could he not figure out that his high line wasn't working...was it after his 6 goals conceded against man city or his 5 against Liverpool...and he has been linked with Milan.

So you're saying that AVB with the player quality of the squads at Chelsea and Spurs couldn't perform, is because of his tactics? Well done, you've just made an argument AGAINST yourself.

[akkm]

its the reality of it...football coaches are severely overrated...their input is vastly exaggerated...watch 'being liverpool' and you will see Brendan Rodgers (who has a reputation as a bright up and coming manager) coaching...its frightening to watch (and this programme made by the club trying to make him look good). Tim Sherwood asked to manage a squad costing what it did yet wanted his players to go a bit more gung ho and up and at 'em...that was the approach of a man with the responsibility of managed such an expensive squad...and arguably you could say he has started well tho his naivety/ignorance was exposed the other day in the arsenal game...the number of coaches who make a significant difference to their teams through their coaching insight is far from what the public perceive

[HUNT3R]

the number of coaches who make a significant difference to their teams through their coaching insight is far from what the public perceive

Tell that to the current Man Utd squad...

[akkm]

So you're saying that AVB with the player quality of the squads at Chelsea and Spurs couldn't perform, is because of his tactics? Well done, you've just made an argument AGAINST yourself.

quite the contrary...its supports the argument...the penny will drop don't worry

[akkm]

Tell that to the current Man Utd squad...

ha ha funny

but I meant through footballing insight tactically...I'm not saying tactics are redundant however they are overrated...naturally you can't set a team up like a muppet (ie like avb)

what the man utd example does is support the argument re tactics in that fergie (who was far from tactically astute...look at how many years he got exposed in Europe) was a MAN manager whose motivational and psychological skills are what enable him to elevate his players level...in fairness to jose it is psychologically where he excels

[Clausdk]

Sorry to hear that. I did a quick search and found this thread: http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/378403-Game-randomly-switches-from-%C2%A3-to?highlight=currency+change

Edit: Clearing preferences: http://www.footballmanager.com/faq/?game=38&id=218 (hope the link works)

Again thank you HUNT3R. Much appreciated

[Hansen2212]

he made many MINOR tactical changes alright but ultimately it was the quality of his players which made the difference. Same as the moronic suggestion that Barcelona were ultimately figured out tactically. Under Guardiola's tenure Barcelona faced many tactics and some many times yet they prevailed more often than not due to the high level their players performed to. As their level dropped in the last two years the same tactics they faced and overcame (indeed overwhelmed) many many many times became more effective BUT NOT BECAUSE OF THE TACTICS but because the LEVEL to which barca's players performed was on the decline...same can be seen in spain's relative decline...their players are simply not playing at the same level due to factors such as burnout (tempo not sustainable over full season given number of games they played at high intensity for years, many without proper summer break), xavi ageing and the likes...also they don't have forwards like villa/eto'o quality in their side alleviating the pressure on messi (whose own level has declined...it seems through injury affecting his acceleration etc)...bottom line is it is players level not tactics that decides games the majority of times...tactics can help but are not the determining factor overall...any fool off the street can do what jose used to do Vs barca and just get everyone behind the ball to compress space in barca attacking third...that's not intelligent tactically at all...ask any fool off the street how to stop barca at their peak and 'get players behind the ball' would be most common/obvious approach...as it happens even employing those tactics the likes of inter had to rely on outrageous sequences of collective luck/breaks (sneijder 3rd goal in first leg offside with Portuguese officals having figo in their ear the entire game after barca travelled 24 hours on a bus due to the dust cloud preventing flights and bojan incorrectly disallowed goal in second leg)

Tactics are becoming severely overpowered in the FM series and are in danger of ruining the game and the ME...its been said here (not just by myself) that players intelligence/creativity/anticipation/decision making/off the ball/technical/passing/movement are underdeveloped in the current ME thus limiting the ability to actually simulate football...it is the intangibles as much as anything which separates players/teams at the highest level...xavi has technique comparable with many others but it is how he sees the game which is what elevates him and enables him to dictate the flow of games that few have ever achieved...this with the way the development of the current ME is going is being stifled to the detriment of the simulation.

And yet again just for the record I have found FM14 very easy employing regular tactics...its not that success difficult but the current ME is restrictive/underdeveloped watching high class creative/fluid creative attacking football in top third with the likes of ozil etc not as effective as they should be...and I don't mean I want to see them scythe through defences however I do want to see slick passing and movement in top third whether its successful or not is academic. for now its back to fm12 as I think it will be two years before FM get the current ME as good/balanced as FM12s (PS I don't use the exploit through speedy central attacker to get goals which I've heard so much about in FM12 though Ronaldo IRL play off second leg against Sweden seemed to use that exploit to huge success...also Liverpool 5-0 Vs spurs used ball through balls to players running through very successfully too lol)

This :-)

Tactics way overpowered - players win games - the best coaches in the world keeps saying that over and over again.

[Dagenham_Dave]

This :-)

Tactics way overpowered - players win games - the best coaches in the world keeps saying that over and over again.

You do realise why they say that, right?

[akkm]

You do realise why they say that, right?

do you ?

[jon157uk]

I really can't cope with this game any longer in it's present format, it's dire and boring and I think I'd rather watch an episode of Eastenders than watch another full length match of this standard.

Please hurry up and fix what you broke, 14.1 was pretty OK, if you can't think of anything else just rewrite that patch again...

Anything has got to be better than this.

[Äktsjon Männ]

Here's a pearler

[video=youtube;GR5vKR1H3vI]

Genuinely laughed out loud despite it being against my team

(And yes, pkm uploaded and not moaning, just found it amusing.)

[Domoboy23]

Anyone else miss having the Milestones tab on the pre-match screen? Was good for in cup teams (when in the future, with a regen filled world) to see if the team you're playing was giving debuts to any youth or backup without having to click on each player/

[theinfamousmielie]

I was very unceremoniously asked to post this here instead. At least I think I'm posting in the right place. Because my comments probably have nothing to do with this particular patch's changes, so it doesn't seem right. It's a long post (sorry), so I thought it deserved it's own thread. Apparently it's not good enough. I don't know. *shrug*

EDIT by RTHerringbone - What I actually stated was "The feedback thread has itself become a discussion thread, so I'm not sure what your thread offers that is different enough to warrant being a thread in it's own right." Bit different, really.

Okay, firstly I want to make it abundantly clear that I really love the game as a whole. It is, in my opinion, the best of the series as a "product". However, I have some SERIOUS gripes, and this is not unique to this version.

With that said, I welcome any feedback and criticism of my points of view from SI or any of the community members. It is a discussions and I would love to hear your thoughts on this. This largely covers the Match Engine and how the players go about their business on the pitch. I am completely aware that there's a boatload of variables - both hidden and as player attributes - to consider when it comes to how player decisions are made in the game and trust me, I have factored these in, but this is coming from roughly three years of collective game playing and noting certain trends and patterns, along with increasing frustration at how little control I actually have.

We'll start with some of the more obvious things. I'm getting pretty sick of conceding goals because defenders are incapable of actually defending. Standing around, not bothering to make tackles (safe or otherwise), etc. This includes delightful occurances such as own goal from a free kick off of a defender on the line, who didn't even move. The ball bounced down off the crossbar, hit the motionless defender and it bobbled into the net. D'oh.

I'm sick of having balls hoofed downfield by the opposition (usually the 'keepers) and a man who is fairly nearby sort-of meanders towards it and ends up not getting there in time as an opposition player sprints towards it and gets possession - all this just because the match engine seems to deem it sensible for only one player to chase the ball - often someone who is a lot further away from the ball, behind the opposition player so he'll never get there. This is surely stupidity. Also, stop letting balls run out for thrown-ins all the time when you have a player just there who can go after it and start another attack. Very few football teams actually play like that.

I'm getting frustrated with players with 16+ Pace and Acceleration constantly getting beaten to the ball by defenders with (often significantly) less than that, who have had to turn around and run backwards, to retrieve a ball. They almost always get there and even then can still keep going. Pish.

On the subject of wide-men, I'm UTTERLY TIRED of wingers and inside-forwards who get the ball in a more central location ALWAYS going wide in situations where if you would keep going straight you could get one-on-one with the keeper or at least be fouled by a defender. But no, he'll run wide, get swamped by two or more defenders and THEN attempt to cross or pass the ball. Where's the intelligence??? Which brings me to my next point...

When to pass, when to shoot, and when to hold on to the ball. I'm at my wits end with this one - it's my big issue. Players hardly ever pass when it's a good time to pass, or cross. No no, they will wait until they're crowded by defenders or at arbitrary angles, and THEN try to pass or cross ... or shoot for goal. What happens? Of course, it ricochet's off a defender. Opportunity usually wasted. These are quality players I'm talking about here. 15+ decisions, passing, etc. I understand pressure situations, away games, rivalries, being behind, various other factors may lead to occasional or infrequent bad decisions. BUT ALL THE TIME? I have lost or drawn so many games because of absolutely ridiculous decision making like this. Bearing down on the keeper (with defenders looming) and the player slows down and contemplates the meaning of life, with the end result that he gets crowded out, then shoots. WTF? WHY? NO PLAYER WOULD EVER DO THAT!!!! Pretty much every player will shoot. Fine, it hits the keeper, okay. Or he skies it, okay. But to not shoot until the chance of success is literally 1% ... really? And all players? Every game? There hasn't been one single game where I haven't asked FM - out loud - why the hell the player did that? :confused:

There seems to be far too stark a difference between "Work the ball into the box" (translation: pass the ball around until you're swamped by defenders, then lose possession in one of the many creative ways described above) versus not having "Work the ball into the box" (translation: shoot, no matter what. No seriously, just shoot. Angles? Pfft. Defenders? Pfft. Straight at the keeper? Why not?!) - again this can all be fixed with better decision-making. I don't understand what's so difficult with the logic flow of "Is Player X more likely to score than me? Maybe, if I pass to him will he be able to take a better-percentage shot than me? Yes? Okay, I'll pass instead, because scoring more goals is ALWAYS a good thing." ... but this seems to be completely missing. Open players bearing down on the keeper as passing targets, but player shoots wide, or hits defender instead... All the time. Two on one situations. Shoots without thought... All the time. This happens ALL THE TIME, with players with both good and average decision-making skill and mental fortitude, in all club situations I have ever seen. Winning, losing, dominating, sucking ... it doesn't matter.

I also find that there's a severe lack of actual creative play. At all. Despite having creative players and formations and instructions that promote running into channels, making space, drawing away defenders ... players make runs occasionally and from time to time a nice move is put together, but nowhere near frequently enough for it to be considered vaguely realistic. Too often I've seen players TURN AROUND TO FACE THEIR DEFENSIVE LINE, hold the ball, and pass it back. Yes, I get that there may not have been a good attacking passing target at that time, but this happens through MOST of the game. Where are the surging runs from the back? Where are the numerous runs that pacy and creative and intelligent players make all the time??? Hardly to be found anywhere. I'll usually get three or four decent runs a game, but due to the above decision making, clear scoring opportunities simply don't happen because of stupidity.

Which brings me to the home/away thing... and this one is the most likely to be an issue with me and not the game itself, but I frequently find that lesser teams are way too strong at home, and AI-controlled away teams have this totally obscure and random tendency to play like Barcalona when neither their current form, punditry, player quality nor team morale warrants such play. It comes to the point where I fear any away fixture in the league or (especially) a cup. Doesn't matter who the opposition is, if I'm at home at least I have a bit of a chance, but even then who knows if Crystal Palace will thrash me for no good reason. Maybe this is just happening to me, but I really hate away fixtures because I just feel like there's forces at work that shouldn't be there. Upsets happen - I get that - but bottom-of-the-table teams often seem to play extremely well against me and less well against everybody else.

My rant is over. Comments most welcome

[Domoboy23]

Is anyone seeing a hign number of lower league players retiring? Good ones.

[Dagenham_Dave]

I actually prefer it when my teams are away, I simply don't know how to set up for home matches. My away record in every save I've had on this version has been considerably better than my home record. Teams just know how to play me off the park when I'm at home, regardless of whether I go all out attack or try and play more conservatively.

If I could replicate my away form in home games, I might have a smidgeon of success in this game. That's the key I need to unlock.

[balldoktor81]

I was very unceremoniously asked to post this here instead. At least I think I'm posting in the right place. Because my comments probably have nothing to do with this particular patch's changes, so it doesn't seem right. It's a long post (sorry), so I thought it deserved it's own thread. Apparently it's not good enough. I don't know. *shrug*

EDIT by RTHerringbone - What I actually stated was "The feedback thread has itself become a discussion thread, so I'm not sure what your thread offers that is different enough to warrant being a thread in it's own right." Bit different, really.

Okay, firstly I want to make it abundantly clear that I really love the game as a whole. It is, in my opinion, the best of the series as a "product". However, I have some SERIOUS gripes, and this is not unique to this version.

With that said, I welcome any feedback and criticism of my points of view from SI or any of the community members. It is a discussions and I would love to hear your thoughts on this. This largely covers the Match Engine and how the players go about their business on the pitch. I am completely aware that there's a boatload of variables - both hidden and as player attributes - to consider when it comes to how player decisions are made in the game and trust me, I have factored these in, but this is coming from roughly three years of collective game playing and noting certain trends and patterns, along with increasing frustration at how little control I actually have.

We'll start with some of the more obvious things. I'm getting pretty sick of conceding goals because defenders are incapable of actually defending. Standing around, not bothering to make tackles (safe or otherwise), etc. This includes delightful occurances such as own goal from a free kick off of a defender on the line, who didn't even move. The ball bounced down off the crossbar, hit the motionless defender and it bobbled into the net. D'oh.

I'm sick of having balls hoofed downfield by the opposition (usually the 'keepers) and a man who is fairly nearby sort-of meanders towards it and ends up not getting there in time as an opposition player sprints towards it and gets possession - all this just because the match engine seems to deem it sensible for only one player to chase the ball - often someone who is a lot further away from the ball, behind the opposition player so he'll never get there. This is surely stupidity. Also, stop letting balls run out for thrown-ins all the time when you have a player just there who can go after it and start another attack. Very few football teams actually play like that.

I'm getting frustrated with players with 16+ Pace and Acceleration constantly getting beaten to the ball by defenders with (often significantly) less than that, who have had to turn around and run backwards, to retrieve a ball. They almost always get there and even then can still keep going. Pish.

On the subject of wide-men, I'm UTTERLY TIRED of wingers and inside-forwards who get the ball in a more central location ALWAYS going wide in situations where if you would keep going straight you could get one-on-one with the keeper or at least be fouled by a defender. But no, he'll run wide, get swamped by two or more defenders and THEN attempt to cross or pass the ball. Where's the intelligence??? Which brings me to my next point...

When to pass, when to shoot, and when to hold on to the ball. I'm at my wits end with this one - it's my big issue. Players hardly ever pass when it's a good time to pass, or cross. No no, they will wait until they're crowded by defenders or at arbitrary angles, and THEN try to pass or cross ... or shoot for goal. What happens? Of course, it ricochet's off a defender. Opportunity usually wasted. These are quality players I'm talking about here. 15+ decisions, passing, etc. I understand pressure situations, away games, rivalries, being behind, various other factors may lead to occasional or infrequent bad decisions. BUT ALL THE TIME? I have lost or drawn so many games because of absolutely ridiculous decision making like this. Bearing down on the keeper (with defenders looming) and the player slows down and contemplates the meaning of life, with the end result that he gets crowded out, then shoots. WTF? WHY? NO PLAYER WOULD EVER DO THAT!!!! Pretty much every player will shoot. Fine, it hits the keeper, okay. Or he skies it, okay. But to not shoot until the chance of success is literally 1% ... really? And all players? Every game? There hasn't been one single game where I haven't asked FM - out loud - why the hell the player did that? :confused:

There seems to be far too stark a difference between "Work the ball into the box" (translation: pass the ball around until you're swamped by defenders, then lose possession in one of the many creative ways described above) versus not having "Work the ball into the box" (translation: shoot, no matter what. No seriously, just shoot. Angles? Pfft. Defenders? Pfft. Straight at the keeper? Why not?!) - again this can all be fixed with better decision-making. I don't understand what's so difficult with the logic flow of "Is Player X more likely to score than me? Maybe, if I pass to him will he be able to take a better-percentage shot than me? Yes? Okay, I'll pass instead, because scoring more goals is ALWAYS a good thing." ... but this seems to be completely missing. Open players bearing down on the keeper as passing targets, but player shoots wide, or hits defender instead... All the time. Two on one situations. Shoots without thought... All the time. This happens ALL THE TIME, with players with both good and average decision-making skill and mental fortitude, in all club situations I have ever seen. Winning, losing, dominating, sucking ... it doesn't matter.

I also find that there's a severe lack of actual creative play. At all. Despite having creative players and formations and instructions that promote running into channels, making space, drawing away defenders ... players make runs occasionally and from time to time a nice move is put together, but nowhere near frequently enough for it to be considered vaguely realistic. Too often I've seen players TURN AROUND TO FACE THEIR DEFENSIVE LINE, hold the ball, and pass it back. Yes, I get that there may not have been a good attacking passing target at that time, but this happens through MOST of the game. Where are the surging runs from the back? Where are the numerous runs that pacy and creative and intelligent players make all the time??? Hardly to be found anywhere. I'll usually get three or four decent runs a game, but due to the above decision making, clear scoring opportunities simply don't happen because of stupidity.

Which brings me to the home/away thing... and this one is the most likely to be an issue with me and not the game itself, but I frequently find that lesser teams are way too strong at home, and AI-controlled away teams have this totally obscure and random tendency to play like Barcalona when neither their current form, punditry, player quality nor team morale warrants such play. It comes to the point where I fear any away fixture in the league or (especially) a cup. Doesn't matter who the opposition is, if I'm at home at least I have a bit of a chance, but even then who knows if Crystal Palace will thrash me for no good reason. Maybe this is just happening to me, but I really hate away fixtures because I just feel like there's forces at work that shouldn't be there. Upsets happen - I get that - but bottom-of-the-table teams often seem to play extremely well against me and less well against everybody else.

My rant is over. Comments most welcome

well described!!! one could go even more into detail, but i don't have the time. once in a blue moon i see really nice sequences of football from my well-skilled players at ajax, but it's so rare.... watching the game for "90" minutes is becoming boring very quickly because you see the same patterns run again and again. best example is the play down the flanks you described... movement off ball is horrible, defenders freeze when supposed to react etc.

and one more important thing i'm missing, is a more detailed feedback on my opponents!!!! all these numbers don't really help. i would like to get some info like: team X is playing counter/ team Y is possession oriented and so on...

[sirgiorgio]

ha ha funny

but I meant through footballing insight tactically...I'm not saying tactics are redundant however they are overrated...naturally you can't set a team up like a muppet (ie like avb)

what the man utd example does is support the argument re tactics in that fergie (who was far from tactically astute...look at how many years he got exposed in Europe) was a MAN manager whose motivational and psychological skills are what enable him to elevate his players level...in fairness to jose it is psychologically where he excels

In my opinion, there are three kinds of managers:

1. The ones who want to give their team an identity, a specific passing style or mentality, for instance. Examples: Guardiola, Van Gaal.

2. The ones who are just happy to have the best possible players and are content if they play more or less as a team. Examples: Capello, Mourinho.

3. The ones who are (or think they are) tactical masters and try to adapt to the opponent instead of creating their own style. Examples: Tinkerman Ranieri, Trapattoni.

Of course, the perfect manager has a bit (but not too much) of everything, plus exceptional motivational skills: you can't explain Man Utd or Inter trebles just with "tactics".

I think FM is moving in the right direction (pick a tactic, stick to it, don't over-rotate the squad, use shouts to make minor adjustments...); unfortunately, what you see is not always what you get. For instance, sometimes your happy, focussed, motivated world-class players are having the greatest game and yet they fail to win. Bad luck? No, more often than not "it's your tactics", it's just that you can't see why it is so...

In my Watford save, I just had an epic 5-3 win against Leicester. The result is wrong per se: they are 20th and we are 1st, I was 3-0 up after 30 minutes, then 5-1 after 80 minutes, and they scored two between 85' and 90'... Most of the times a team like theirs, 4 goals down away from home, should be so dazed and confused that they would simply wish the match to end as soon as possible, instead of going for the comeback of the century, but anyway, 7 days later I play at Middlesbrough and lose 1-0. My players were lethal against Leicester but disastrous in front of the goal against Middlesbrough. Now, maybe my tactics are to blame, but why? Maybe I used the wrong words to motivate my guys, but how? Maybe I chose wrong match preparation, maybe my players are a bunch of loonies, maybe maybe maybe... The points is, IMO, that the game makes no effort to let you know what's actually going on.

[theinfamousmielie]

I actually prefer it when my teams are away, I simply don't know how to set up for home matches. My away record in every save I've had on this version has been considerably better than my home record. Teams just know how to play me off the park when I'm at home, regardless of whether I go all out attack or try and play more conservatively.

For me it usually entails a level of predictability. When I'm playing away, regardless of the opposition, it's always tough as nails. When I'm at home, I never know what's going to happen. I know what you mean though. I tend to be very attacking at home. I do concede but I generally do score, which is partially why I think it's my own fault that my home games are so unpredictable. Nothing like being beaten at home 4-0 by a bottom-of-the-league team for no reason though ...

[petergoddard]

I was very unceremoniously asked to post this here instead. At least I think I'm posting in the right place. Because my comments probably have nothing to do with this particular patch's changes, so it doesn't seem right. It's a long post (sorry), so I thought it deserved it's own thread. Apparently it's not good enough. I don't know. *shrug*

EDIT by RTHerringbone - What I actually stated was "The feedback thread has itself become a discussion thread, so I'm not sure what your thread offers that is different enough to warrant being a thread in it's own right." Bit different, really.

Okay, firstly I want to make it abundantly clear that I really love the game as a whole. It is, in my opinion, the best of the series as a "product". However, I have some SERIOUS gripes, and this is not unique to this version.

With that said, I welcome any feedback and criticism of my points of view from SI or any of the community members. It is a discussions and I would love to hear your thoughts on this. This largely covers the Match Engine and how the players go about their business on the pitch. I am completely aware that there's a boatload of variables - both hidden and as player attributes - to consider when it comes to how player decisions are made in the game and trust me, I have factored these in, but this is coming from roughly three years of collective game playing and noting certain trends and patterns, along with increasing frustration at how little control I actually have.

We'll start with some of the more obvious things. I'm getting pretty sick of conceding goals because defenders are incapable of actually defending. Standing around, not bothering to make tackles (safe or otherwise), etc. This includes delightful occurances such as own goal from a free kick off of a defender on the line, who didn't even move. The ball bounced down off the crossbar, hit the motionless defender and it bobbled into the net. D'oh.

I'm sick of having balls hoofed downfield by the opposition (usually the 'keepers) and a man who is fairly nearby sort-of meanders towards it and ends up not getting there in time as an opposition player sprints towards it and gets possession - all this just because the match engine seems to deem it sensible for only one player to chase the ball - often someone who is a lot further away from the ball, behind the opposition player so he'll never get there. This is surely stupidity. Also, stop letting balls run out for thrown-ins all the time when you have a player just there who can go after it and start another attack. Very few football teams actually play like that.

I'm getting frustrated with players with 16+ Pace and Acceleration constantly getting beaten to the ball by defenders with (often significantly) less than that, who have had to turn around and run backwards, to retrieve a ball. They almost always get there and even then can still keep going. Pish.

On the subject of wide-men, I'm UTTERLY TIRED of wingers and inside-forwards who get the ball in a more central location ALWAYS going wide in situations where if you would keep going straight you could get one-on-one with the keeper or at least be fouled by a defender. But no, he'll run wide, get swamped by two or more defenders and THEN attempt to cross or pass the ball. Where's the intelligence??? Which brings me to my next point...

When to pass, when to shoot, and when to hold on to the ball. I'm at my wits end with this one - it's my big issue. Players hardly ever pass when it's a good time to pass, or cross. No no, they will wait until they're crowded by defenders or at arbitrary angles, and THEN try to pass or cross ... or shoot for goal. What happens? Of course, it ricochet's off a defender. Opportunity usually wasted. These are quality players I'm talking about here. 15+ decisions, passing, etc. I understand pressure situations, away games, rivalries, being behind, various other factors may lead to occasional or infrequent bad decisions. BUT ALL THE TIME? I have lost or drawn so many games because of absolutely ridiculous decision making like this. Bearing down on the keeper (with defenders looming) and the player slows down and contemplates the meaning of life, with the end result that he gets crowded out, then shoots. WTF? WHY? NO PLAYER WOULD EVER DO THAT!!!! Pretty much every player will shoot. Fine, it hits the keeper, okay. Or he skies it, okay. But to not shoot until the chance of success is literally 1% ... really? And all players? Every game? There hasn't been one single game where I haven't asked FM - out loud - why the hell the player did that? :confused:

There seems to be far too stark a difference between "Work the ball into the box" (translation: pass the ball around until you're swamped by defenders, then lose possession in one of the many creative ways described above) versus not having "Work the ball into the box" (translation: shoot, no matter what. No seriously, just shoot. Angles? Pfft. Defenders? Pfft. Straight at the keeper? Why not?!) - again this can all be fixed with better decision-making. I don't understand what's so difficult with the logic flow of "Is Player X more likely to score than me? Maybe, if I pass to him will he be able to take a better-percentage shot than me? Yes? Okay, I'll pass instead, because scoring more goals is ALWAYS a good thing." ... but this seems to be completely missing. Open players bearing down on the keeper as passing targets, but player shoots wide, or hits defender instead... All the time. Two on one situations. Shoots without thought... All the time. This happens ALL THE TIME, with players with both good and average decision-making skill and mental fortitude, in all club situations I have ever seen. Winning, losing, dominating, sucking ... it doesn't matter.

I also find that there's a severe lack of actual creative play. At all. Despite having creative players and formations and instructions that promote running into channels, making space, drawing away defenders ... players make runs occasionally and from time to time a nice move is put together, but nowhere near frequently enough for it to be considered vaguely realistic. Too often I've seen players TURN AROUND TO FACE THEIR DEFENSIVE LINE, hold the ball, and pass it back. Yes, I get that there may not have been a good attacking passing target at that time, but this happens through MOST of the game. Where are the surging runs from the back? Where are the numerous runs that pacy and creative and intelligent players make all the time??? Hardly to be found anywhere. I'll usually get three or four decent runs a game, but due to the above decision making, clear scoring opportunities simply don't happen because of stupidity.

Which brings me to the home/away thing... and this one is the most likely to be an issue with me and not the game itself, but I frequently find that lesser teams are way too strong at home, and AI-controlled away teams have this totally obscure and random tendency to play like Barcalona when neither their current form, punditry, player quality nor team morale warrants such play. It comes to the point where I fear any away fixture in the league or (especially) a cup. Doesn't matter who the opposition is, if I'm at home at least I have a bit of a chance, but even then who knows if Crystal Palace will thrash me for no good reason. Maybe this is just happening to me, but I really hate away fixtures because I just feel like there's forces at work that shouldn't be there. Upsets happen - I get that - but bottom-of-the-table teams often seem to play extremely well against me and less well against everybody else.

My rant is over. Comments most welcome

:applause::applause::applause:

[Beestonite]

Here's a pearler

[video=youtube;GR5vKR1H3vI]

Genuinely laughed out loud despite it being against my team

(And yes, pkm uploaded and not moaning, just found it amusing.)

This is shocking. After two fixes this year, this is still happening. I hope it eventually gets fixed properly.

What surprises me is the way we tolerate this. We get these problems pretty much every year and 50% accept them yet 50% don't. My main argument would be, how long before SI can master what the hell is going on with the ME? We discuss this year after year as if it's SI's first attempt at producing a ME, they've been doing it for years so surely to God they should be able to elimate these disastrous problems. This just isn't realistic football at all.

I wonder how long it will be before someone asks for their money back after the last patch is released and they're still not happy? I mean, if you buy a product and it doesn't work as it is supposed to, is there an argument that you should get your money back? Once the 'we won't be doing anymore work on this years release as we need to focus on next years' message is posted, and we still have glitches which SI freely admit are still in the game, aren't they admitting a faulty product? Isn't one then entitled to a refund? Not that I am saying I would do this myself, but it has entered my head before and not just with FM. But as FM14 has some ridiculous goings on still and we're only getting one more patch, can SI really cure all the problems and deliver a good ME?

By the way, anyone who picks up on 'good ME', the example of the GK and Defenders watching the ball here constitutes a poor ME in my opinion. This shouldn't be able to happen given the years of experience SI have.

[isignedupfornorealreason]

I was very unceremoniously asked to post this here instead. At least I think I'm posting in the right place. Because my comments probably have nothing to do with this particular patch's changes, so it doesn't seem right. It's a long post (sorry), so I thought it deserved it's own thread. Apparently it's not good enough. I don't know. *shrug*

EDIT by RTHerringbone - What I actually stated was "The feedback thread has itself become a discussion thread, so I'm not sure what your thread offers that is different enough to warrant being a thread in it's own right." Bit different, really.

Okay, firstly I want to make it abundantly clear that I really love the game as a whole. It is, in my opinion, the best of the series as a "product". However, I have some SERIOUS gripes, and this is not unique to this version.

With that said, I welcome any feedback and criticism of my points of view from SI or any of the community members. It is a discussions and I would love to hear your thoughts on this. This largely covers the Match Engine and how the players go about their business on the pitch. I am completely aware that there's a boatload of variables - both hidden and as player attributes - to consider when it comes to how player decisions are made in the game and trust me, I have factored these in, but this is coming from roughly three years of collective game playing and noting certain trends and patterns, along with increasing frustration at how little control I actually have.

We'll start with some of the more obvious things. I'm getting pretty sick of conceding goals because defenders are incapable of actually defending. Standing around, not bothering to make tackles (safe or otherwise), etc. This includes delightful occurances such as own goal from a free kick off of a defender on the line, who didn't even move. The ball bounced down off the crossbar, hit the motionless defender and it bobbled into the net. D'oh.

I'm sick of having balls hoofed downfield by the opposition (usually the 'keepers) and a man who is fairly nearby sort-of meanders towards it and ends up not getting there in time as an opposition player sprints towards it and gets possession - all this just because the match engine seems to deem it sensible for only one player to chase the ball - often someone who is a lot further away from the ball, behind the opposition player so he'll never get there. This is surely stupidity. Also, stop letting balls run out for thrown-ins all the time when you have a player just there who can go after it and start another attack. Very few football teams actually play like that.

I'm getting frustrated with players with 16+ Pace and Acceleration constantly getting beaten to the ball by defenders with (often significantly) less than that, who have had to turn around and run backwards, to retrieve a ball. They almost always get there and even then can still keep going. Pish.

On the subject of wide-men, I'm UTTERLY TIRED of wingers and inside-forwards who get the ball in a more central location ALWAYS going wide in situations where if you would keep going straight you could get one-on-one with the keeper or at least be fouled by a defender. But no, he'll run wide, get swamped by two or more defenders and THEN attempt to cross or pass the ball. Where's the intelligence??? Which brings me to my next point...

When to pass, when to shoot, and when to hold on to the ball. I'm at my wits end with this one - it's my big issue. Players hardly ever pass when it's a good time to pass, or cross. No no, they will wait until they're crowded by defenders or at arbitrary angles, and THEN try to pass or cross ... or shoot for goal. What happens? Of course, it ricochet's off a defender. Opportunity usually wasted. These are quality players I'm talking about here. 15+ decisions, passing, etc. I understand pressure situations, away games, rivalries, being behind, various other factors may lead to occasional or infrequent bad decisions. BUT ALL THE TIME? I have lost or drawn so many games because of absolutely ridiculous decision making like this. Bearing down on the keeper (with defenders looming) and the player slows down and contemplates the meaning of life, with the end result that he gets crowded out, then shoots. WTF? WHY? NO PLAYER WOULD EVER DO THAT!!!! Pretty much every player will shoot. Fine, it hits the keeper, okay. Or he skies it, okay. But to not shoot until the chance of success is literally 1% ... really? And all players? Every game? There hasn't been one single game where I haven't asked FM - out loud - why the hell the player did that? :confused:

There seems to be far too stark a difference between "Work the ball into the box" (translation: pass the ball around until you're swamped by defenders, then lose possession in one of the many creative ways described above) versus not having "Work the ball into the box" (translation: shoot, no matter what. No seriously, just shoot. Angles? Pfft. Defenders? Pfft. Straight at the keeper? Why not?!) - again this can all be fixed with better decision-making. I don't understand what's so difficult with the logic flow of "Is Player X more likely to score than me? Maybe, if I pass to him will he be able to take a better-percentage shot than me? Yes? Okay, I'll pass instead, because scoring more goals is ALWAYS a good thing." ... but this seems to be completely missing. Open players bearing down on the keeper as passing targets, but player shoots wide, or hits defender instead... All the time. Two on one situations. Shoots without thought... All the time. This happens ALL THE TIME, with players with both good and average decision-making skill and mental fortitude, in all club situations I have ever seen. Winning, losing, dominating, sucking ... it doesn't matter.

I also find that there's a severe lack of actual creative play. At all. Despite having creative players and formations and instructions that promote running into channels, making space, drawing away defenders ... players make runs occasionally and from time to time a nice move is put together, but nowhere near frequently enough for it to be considered vaguely realistic. Too often I've seen players TURN AROUND TO FACE THEIR DEFENSIVE LINE, hold the ball, and pass it back. Yes, I get that there may not have been a good attacking passing target at that time, but this happens through MOST of the game. Where are the surging runs from the back? Where are the numerous runs that pacy and creative and intelligent players make all the time??? Hardly to be found anywhere. I'll usually get three or four decent runs a game, but due to the above decision making, clear scoring opportunities simply don't happen because of stupidity.

Which brings me to the home/away thing... and this one is the most likely to be an issue with me and not the game itself, but I frequently find that lesser teams are way too strong at home, and AI-controlled away teams have this totally obscure and random tendency to play like Barcalona when neither their current form, punditry, player quality nor team morale warrants such play. It comes to the point where I fear any away fixture in the league or (especially) a cup. Doesn't matter who the opposition is, if I'm at home at least I have a bit of a chance, but even then who knows if Crystal Palace will thrash me for no good reason. Maybe this is just happening to me, but I really hate away fixtures because I just feel like there's forces at work that shouldn't be there. Upsets happen - I get that - but bottom-of-the-table teams often seem to play extremely well against me and less well against everybody else.

My rant is over. Comments most welcome

Nail on head in some aspects.

The form book is a particularly annoying one.

[scott MUFC]

has anyone else noticed that lower reputation teams are timewasting when leading very early in the game?

and timewasting at like 10-15 minute mark.

[CityAndColour]

Nail on head in some aspects.

The form book is a particularly annoying one.

I think poor teams are far too efficient on the counter, meaning if you don't set up to prevent that you can find yourself two or three down very quickly, especially when you're pushing numbers forward at home.

[braceletwinner]

has anyone else noticed that lower reputation teams are timewasting when leading very early in the game?

and timewasting at like 10-15 minute mark.

I notice this in FM13. I was playing against Santos in a second-leg tie of the Brazilian Cup (they are one of the two or three best teams in Brazil), and were ahead 2-1 going into the game. At about five minutes in, I noticed a Santos throw-in took about ten seconds. So I started watching for more instances of time-wasting and I saw several, including a goal kick that took well over fifteen seconds with no card, and it lasted until I scored about thirty minutes in. Very bizarre for a team at least as good as mine to revert to time-wasting within five minutes. Looks like it's carried over to FM14.

[cainite]

wingers cannot cross the ball because of at least two defender closing him with the play ending almost every single time in a corner(20+ corner per game),player will shoot from in front of the box instead of passing it to their mates in the open no matter what instruction i give, too many fouls committed by the opposition (usually 30 against my 3-4) while receiving only one or two yellow cards,in the last 0 games i'm yet to see a goal scored in build up play.too many woodworks and failed easy passing attempts and the ME is boring at best and doesn't look like improving no matter how many patch is being applied. in my opinion this game is truly dissappointing and devs have failed miserably

edit:forgot to mention incredible amount of own goals and stupid transfer system (237 for pogba on transfer list)

edit2: players not forming up a wall for the set pieces from wings and when they do it's usually nothing to do with closing the angle... i'm sorry for edits but the game has so many shortcomings that it's impossible remember them at one go

edit3: players assuming it a sin to dribble past the keeper,throw ins that defies logic...

4: corner flags being ball magnets in disguise,players getting a virus that will last 9 days when there is CL finale in 8 days,

5: 3 matches in 3 days,six matches in 12 days, 2 matches in 3 days(and it's almost in that pattern a CL match and a local derby)

[petergoddard]

wingers cannot cross the ball because of at least two defender closing him with the play ending almost every single time in a corner(20+ corner per game),player will shoot from in front of the box instead of passing it to their mates in the open no matter what instruction i give, too many fouls committed by the opposition (usually 30 against my 3-4) while receiving only one or two yellow cards,in the last 0 games i'm yet to see a goal scored in build up play.too many woodworks and failed easy passing attempts and the ME is boring at best and doesn't look like improving no matter how many patch is being applied. in my opinion this game is truly dissappointing and devs have failed miserably

edit:forgot to mention incredible amount of own goals and stupid transfer system (237 for pogba on transfer list)

plus stupid passing of GK's to opponent's forwards

[Sunstrikuuu]

Just for ***** and giggles, I've played the second leg of my FC Basel v Genk Champions League match four times. I've conceded twelve goals. Ten have been from set pieces. And literally as I typed this, it became 11 from 13.

[Dagenham_Dave]

Just for ***** and giggles, I've played the second leg of my FC Basel v Genk Champions League match four times. I've conceded twelve goals. Ten have been from set pieces. And literally as I typed this, it became 11 from 13.

All three goals in tonight's League Cup semi final came from set pieces. You know, it's not a crime to score or concede from a set piece. Some games will be all set pieces, some will be none, some will be mixed. FM's ME might see more goals from these than in real life, but how much of that is tactical? What has caused those set pieces in the first place? Good defensive work to prevent a goal? Too many fouls given away in dangerous areas? A lack of options for a cross leading to an easy defensive clearance?

There may well be a lot of goals from set pieces in your game (they're about normal across all my saves), but instead of simply blaming the game's engine, as is fashionable to do round these parts, perhaps it would be, on occasion, better to look inwards a bit more.

[Sussex Hammer]

Quite interesting reading all of this as I haven't bought FM14. But it's interesting because a lot of the issues here were also issues in FM12 and even more so in FM13. As a long term classic tactic fan I'm experimenting with the TC for a season on 13 to see if it gives me any interest in buying 14 and I must say it's a nightmare compared with classic tactics IMO. Finished 6th which was fine but I played with only one forward and no matter what I did I only ended up with 36 goals yet only conceded 26. Plenty of 1-0 wins bar a Cup Final at the end of a 25 match unbeaten run in which lower League opposition beat me 1-0 with their only shot of the game (a penalty!). The seeming randomness and lack of control I feel with the TC has put me off and I came on here with an open mind with 14. After reading some of these posts though I think I'll just go back to 12!!!

[jc1]

]wingers cannot cross the ball because of at least two defender closing him [/B]with the play ending almost every single time in a corner(20+ corner per game)' date='player will shoot from in front of the box instead of passing it to their mates in the open no matter what instruction i give, too many fouls committed by the opposition (usually 30 against my 3-4) while receiving only one or two yellow cards,in the last 0 games i'm yet to see a goal scored in build up play.too many woodworks and failed easy passing attempts and the ME is boring at best and doesn't look like improving no matter how many patch is being applied. in my opinion this game is truly dissappointing and devs have failed miserably

edit:forgot to mention incredible amount of own goals and stupid transfer system (237 for pogba on transfer list)

edit2: player not forming up a wall for the set pieces from wings and when they do it's usually nothing to do with closing the angle... i'm sorry for edits but the game has so many shortcomings that it's impossible remember them at one go[/quote']

If you watched Man U game tonight, every time Januzaj got the ball, he had 2 men pressing him immediately.

[cainite]

If you watched Man U game tonight, every time Januzaj got the ball, he had 2 men pressing him immediately.

would i also see him waiting with the ball,letting defenders closing him down instead of crossing when he has a very large open window and the box is full of manU players?

[BiggusD]

I was very unceremoniously asked to post this here instead. At least I think I'm posting in the right place. Because my comments probably have nothing to do with this particular patch's changes, so it doesn't seem right. It's a long post (sorry), so I thought it deserved it's own thread. Apparently it's not good enough. I don't know. *shrug*

EDIT by RTHerringbone - What I actually stated was "The feedback thread has itself become a discussion thread, so I'm not sure what your thread offers that is different enough to warrant being a thread in it's own right." Bit different, really.

Okay, firstly I want to make it abundantly clear that I really love the game as a whole. It is, in my opinion, the best of the series as a "product". However, I have some SERIOUS gripes, and this is not unique to this version.

With that said, I welcome any feedback and criticism of my points of view from SI or any of the community members. It is a discussions and I would love to hear your thoughts on this. This largely covers the Match Engine and how the players go about their business on the pitch. I am completely aware that there's a boatload of variables - both hidden and as player attributes - to consider when it comes to how player decisions are made in the game and trust me, I have factored these in, but this is coming from roughly three years of collective game playing and noting certain trends and patterns, along with increasing frustration at how little control I actually have.

We'll start with some of the more obvious things. I'm getting pretty sick of conceding goals because defenders are incapable of actually defending. Standing around, not bothering to make tackles (safe or otherwise), etc. This includes delightful occurances such as own goal from a free kick off of a defender on the line, who didn't even move. The ball bounced down off the crossbar, hit the motionless defender and it bobbled into the net. D'oh.

I'm sick of having balls hoofed downfield by the opposition (usually the 'keepers) and a man who is fairly nearby sort-of meanders towards it and ends up not getting there in time as an opposition player sprints towards it and gets possession - all this just because the match engine seems to deem it sensible for only one player to chase the ball - often someone who is a lot further away from the ball, behind the opposition player so he'll never get there. This is surely stupidity. Also, stop letting balls run out for thrown-ins all the time when you have a player just there who can go after it and start another attack. Very few football teams actually play like that.

I'm getting frustrated with players with 16+ Pace and Acceleration constantly getting beaten to the ball by defenders with (often significantly) less than that, who have had to turn around and run backwards, to retrieve a ball. They almost always get there and even then can still keep going. Pish.

On the subject of wide-men, I'm UTTERLY TIRED of wingers and inside-forwards who get the ball in a more central location ALWAYS going wide in situations where if you would keep going straight you could get one-on-one with the keeper or at least be fouled by a defender. But no, he'll run wide, get swamped by two or more defenders and THEN attempt to cross or pass the ball. Where's the intelligence??? Which brings me to my next point...

When to pass, when to shoot, and when to hold on to the ball. I'm at my wits end with this one - it's my big issue. Players hardly ever pass when it's a good time to pass, or cross. No no, they will wait until they're crowded by defenders or at arbitrary angles, and THEN try to pass or cross ... or shoot for goal. What happens? Of course, it ricochet's off a defender. Opportunity usually wasted. These are quality players I'm talking about here. 15+ decisions, passing, etc. I understand pressure situations, away games, rivalries, being behind, various other factors may lead to occasional or infrequent bad decisions. BUT ALL THE TIME? I have lost or drawn so many games because of absolutely ridiculous decision making like this. Bearing down on the keeper (with defenders looming) and the player slows down and contemplates the meaning of life, with the end result that he gets crowded out, then shoots. WTF? WHY? NO PLAYER WOULD EVER DO THAT!!!! Pretty much every player will shoot. Fine, it hits the keeper, okay. Or he skies it, okay. But to not shoot until the chance of success is literally 1% ... really? And all players? Every game? There hasn't been one single game where I haven't asked FM - out loud - why the hell the player did that? :confused:

There seems to be far too stark a difference between "Work the ball into the box" (translation: pass the ball around until you're swamped by defenders, then lose possession in one of the many creative ways described above) versus not having "Work the ball into the box" (translation: shoot, no matter what. No seriously, just shoot. Angles? Pfft. Defenders? Pfft. Straight at the keeper? Why not?!) - again this can all be fixed with better decision-making. I don't understand what's so difficult with the logic flow of "Is Player X more likely to score than me? Maybe, if I pass to him will he be able to take a better-percentage shot than me? Yes? Okay, I'll pass instead, because scoring more goals is ALWAYS a good thing." ... but this seems to be completely missing. Open players bearing down on the keeper as passing targets, but player shoots wide, or hits defender instead... All the time. Two on one situations. Shoots without thought... All the time. This happens ALL THE TIME, with players with both good and average decision-making skill and mental fortitude, in all club situations I have ever seen. Winning, losing, dominating, sucking ... it doesn't matter.

I also find that there's a severe lack of actual creative play. At all. Despite having creative players and formations and instructions that promote running into channels, making space, drawing away defenders ... players make runs occasionally and from time to time a nice move is put together, but nowhere near frequently enough for it to be considered vaguely realistic. Too often I've seen players TURN AROUND TO FACE THEIR DEFENSIVE LINE, hold the ball, and pass it back. Yes, I get that there may not have been a good attacking passing target at that time, but this happens through MOST of the game. Where are the surging runs from the back? Where are the numerous runs that pacy and creative and intelligent players make all the time??? Hardly to be found anywhere. I'll usually get three or four decent runs a game, but due to the above decision making, clear scoring opportunities simply don't happen because of stupidity.

Which brings me to the home/away thing... and this one is the most likely to be an issue with me and not the game itself, but I frequently find that lesser teams are way too strong at home, and AI-controlled away teams have this totally obscure and random tendency to play like Barcalona when neither their current form, punditry, player quality nor team morale warrants such play. It comes to the point where I fear any away fixture in the league or (especially) a cup. Doesn't matter who the opposition is, if I'm at home at least I have a bit of a chance, but even then who knows if Crystal Palace will thrash me for no good reason. Maybe this is just happening to me, but I really hate away fixtures because I just feel like there's forces at work that shouldn't be there. Upsets happen - I get that - but bottom-of-the-table teams often seem to play extremely well against me and less well against everybody else.

My rant is over. Comments most welcome

Well said! Recognize many of these, except the flank thing, but then I don't use wingers so that's perhaps why.

Adding to this, my gripe at the moment is that one game, my team plays like they really enjoy themselves and to create football art. The next match I am battered, and it looks like they'd rather be at home stabbing themselves in the leg with a fork. The opponent could be bottom of the table on a losing streak or a top team in great form, home or away, playing against a flat 442, a 451 or a 41212, or a 352 or 532 or a 433. I'm favourite to win, huge underdog, I score first, I concede in the 3rd minute. Some teams park the bus other teams launch forwards uncritically. Some even try a balanced approach. Some pass the ball around, some pump it forwards.

None of that matters.

Some of those games I will batter them with 30-5 shots, other times I get battered 5-30. Sometimes it's 10-10, sometimes 15-15, sometimes 20-20. Regardless, the result could be 0-3, 3-0, 2-2, 4-0 and 1-1 respectively. Or not respectively; pick one at random and apply them to a random type of opponent in a random venue against a random tactic and strategy. For that matter, a match which looks like it is going to be a 20-10 in the first 20 minutes could become a 10-20 in the next 25. And after the break it first is a 10-10 and then it becomes a 30-5, but the match result is 2-4. Or 4-2, doesn't matter.

Yeah this is fun.

[Sunstrikuuu]

All three goals in tonight's League Cup semi final came from set pieces. You know, it's not a crime to score or concede from a set piece. Some games will be all set pieces, some will be none, some will be mixed. FM's ME might see more goals from these than in real life, but how much of that is tactical? What has caused those set pieces in the first place? Good defensive work to prevent a goal? Too many fouls given away in dangerous areas? A lack of options for a cross leading to an easy defensive clearance?

There may well be a lot of goals from set pieces in your game (they're about normal across all my saves), but instead of simply blaming the game's engine, as is fashionable to do round these parts, perhaps it would be, on occasion, better to look inwards a bit more.

Tracking it across a full season, more than 50% of the goals I conceded in Serie C were from set pieces. The majority of those were from far post corners headed towards the penalty spot. Just looking at free kicks, the vast majority of FKs that ended in goals were directed towards the far post and 'cleared' back across the goal. That is, if I'm not mistaken, something that defenders are taught from schoolboy level to never do ever under any circumstances.

I simmed that particular fixture three more times and added another seven goals against to the tally. Three came from corners, one from an IFK and three from open play.

Maybe it's my tactics. Maybe it's not. But if it is, that speaks rather to a deficiency within the game as I'm using entirely normal, default tactics to defend corners and free kicks. I would be much more inclined towards the 'it's just your tactics' viewpoint if significant parts of the game hadn't been more or less broken since release.

[petergoddard]

Concede and score from set pieces is natural, just part of football... not so natural when people realizes that a large amount of goals are from set pieces, more even those conceded than scored. The famous "it's your tactics" argument is not even valid, neither its valid when our GKs makes great key passes to the other forwards. Then we see also players with poor pace attribute running as much or more than a player with 15 pace or players with poor tacking attribute acting like Franco Baresi. Is it also our tactics ?

[Reapers]

I've always loved Football Manager, it has had undeniable success throughout the years. It has its up and downs, but for the most part, has been a great success.

One thing that has bugged me about the past few years is unbalance towards realism, and making the game fun. The game is meant to be FUN more than realistic. Realism doesn't always equal fun. When i player FM, i expect some sort of success, as long as i put some work into the team, maybe 10 minutes or so of setting things up. I shouldn't have to put hours and hours of constant fiddling to just get a win against a weaker team, it doesn't make the game fun.

Of course, as a simulation game, it requires a certain amount of realism, but that shouldn't affect the experience and want the player to smash his screen. The fact that you have to essentially change everything nearly every game is a complete idiotic decision in my book, if you don't, you lose. Simple. Some people simply don't have the time in there day to fiddle with every little thing to get some sort of success in the game; some only have 1 hour of gaming time a week, that time shouldn't be filled with frustration.

I'm not saying that fiddling with tactics for every match should be ignored, i'm saying it shouldn't be forced to simply get a win.

Another thing that bugs me is the complete idiotic decisions your players make in the game. I've seen players like Suarez miss constant 1 on 1s, and clear cut chances, despite the fact he is arguably the best striker in the world right now, with fantastic composure and pinpoint accuracy. Your defenders backing off a player despite the fact he is the last man; not closing down even when it is common sense that you should close the man down. Goalkeepers acting like they're blindfolded and making the most bone-headed decisions I've ever seen in a game, throwing it to the opposition, yet there is a teammate far to the left with no one marking him. These things need improving because it is making the game a chore to play through.

I really hope you sort these things out, because it is ruining your game.

[Dagenham_Dave]

I simmed that particular fixture three more times and added another seven goals against to the tally. Three came from corners, one from an IFK and three from open play.

Again, the key word here is 'against'. That's twice you've posted about this game, and on both occasions have only mentioned the amount of goals conceded from set pieces.

Are you also scoring from an abnormal amount of set pieces? Because if that's normal, then perhaps it IS tactical that you're conceding far more than you're scoring.

You say you're falling foul of the admittedly lame header from the defender back into the middle of the box. This part IS an issue IMO, and happens too often. That said, perhaps instead of sticking to the default tactics to defend these corners, you could try something else? I never use anything but the default tactics either, but I also don't concede a disproportionate amount of goals from set pieces, so I've no real need to change it. Maybe the way your team defends set pieces naturally isn't as effective? Who knows, every team is different.

Not saying set pieces definitely aren't bugged, but if I was you, I'd be trying every avenue within the game that's available to try and stop it before giving up with it.

[cainite]

well at the expense of appearing to be pointlessly ranting i have to say it is a certain kind of achievement having so much feedback and not being able to improve the game one bit in six(or more?) patches

and it seems game is taking one step forwards and two step back with every patch.i truly think it was much better when in beta

[Dagenham_Dave]

The game is meant to be FUN more than realistic

Sorry, must have missed that memo.

[Reapers]

Smartass

[aiston]

Building up a few PKM's to put on the bug section, 15 bugs ranging from dumb GK/ defence AI to tactics not working (GK to defender). Would be 5-10 more if I included goals from corners.

That is in 6 matches.

[jayscfc]

Sorry, must have missed that memo.

As helpful as ever.

And no wonder these threads descend into petty arguments when you're needlessly and deliberately provoking people with your arrogant attitude.