Match Engine Update 13.2.1 - ME 1325 Constructive feedback here please

[Cleon]

I've deleted lots of spam from the thread. Please remember this is a constructive feedback thread and post in English at all times please. Cut out the nonesense please

[Target Practice]

In a desperate attempt to get this thread back on track, here's how I conceded my first goal of the season:

[video=youtube;nLCJWgR-3dc]

...I think I just unlocked 'pre-school' mode.

[Keyzer Soze]

In a desperate attempt to get this thread back on track, here's how I conceded my first goal of the season:

...I think I just unlocked 'pre-school' mode.

Did you put everyone man marking a specific player?

[Target Practice]

Nope, I think marking was actually set to 'zonal' for the tactic I used for that match, so I guess they just all decided to mark the same zone.

[Kriss]

You only need one, "Get your finger out, or you're off"

That's actually one I would include

[Keyzer Soze]

Nope, I think marking was actually set to 'zonal' for the tactic I used for that match, so I guess they just all decided to mark the same zone.

Weird! Perhaps you could post the pkm file in the bug forum.

[Target Practice]

Yeah, fortunately I remembered to save the .pkm after the match (this happened 10 minutes into it), as I'm pretty sure there's no set of instructions/tactics I could give that could end up with that result... could be an effective tactic with the ball though - surround the ball-carrier with 10 other players and just walk it into the net!

[Jibby123]

In a desperate attempt to get this thread back on track, here's how I conceded my first goal of the season:

[video=youtube;nLCJWgR-3dc]

...I think I just unlocked 'pre-school' mode.

That's brilliant!!

[dazbowski]

Have set pieces been messed with since the patch? I used to get my fair share of goals from them, now nothing at all. It's now like it was in the early days of this version.

[ReggaeBwoy]

Someone just posted on the Everton result of them beating Arsenal 7/8-0. Please just get this new patch/hotfix out before I kill myself

[Herbert Fandel]

Someone just posted on the Everton result of them beating Arsenal 7/8-0. Please just get this new patch/hotfix out before I kill myself

What season was it in? If it is down the line then that means nothing, anything can happen in game. Arsenal have taken that kind of a beating IRL in the not too distant past anyhow.

I'm not (necessarily) doubting the game needs fixing, but many people don't give the best reasons for asserting it does.

[edgar555]

Someone just posted on the Everton result of them beating Arsenal 7/8-0. Please just get this new patch/hotfix out before I kill myself

You're not even playing the game until its patched. Don't believe everything you read on the Internet.

[scott MUFC]

its fine, Everton are bottom of the league on mine

and anyway Arsenal should have been thumped by United again like last season.

and getting rather sick of my world class strikers shooting AT the goalkeeper or missing from 1 yard out, especially when it headers when heading was supposedly fixed?

this is always away games, also players not tackling. and strikers passing backwards AGAIN.

this is stuff that should be goals not being scored.

AI score from cross nearly every game, yet i get 3 or 4, and they are headed over by players like Llorente from within the 6 yard box all the time itg ets increasinly frustrating.

[Sailor]

Well i havent played for about a month and jst read this thread. Today i got confused as i saw the new update thread . I launched steam anf sure enought the game updated. Could this be it!? I played one half of extended highlights and concluded that it definitely wasnt it and whoever tells people that their tactics are bad and the issues people are describing are just ... crazy. This is what i saw in one half.

- winger takes the ball from half carries it all the way crosses into the box where a lone striker surrounded by 4 defenders score.

- my striker carries the ball from half volleys it into the box where my other striker surronded by 4 defenders scores a diving header

- my fullback carries the ball all the way into th box and runs into a goal post

- same fullback carries it through the whole pitch again cuts inside and gets closed down by 4 defenders at the same time

- yet again the fullback takes the ball from half dribbles around everyone has 4 passing options and shoots the ball somewhere

At that point i was convinced people who complain on here arent whiners and quit awaiting new patch

[seizer]

This is where we are at:

I am working daily on the 13 ME to provide an update for you hopefully well before the February data update but no date has been set as it isnt ready yet. So far despite having reduced long shots and improved defending vs dribbling etc the knock-ons have left things unbalanced. For example there are not enough goals at lower levels but plenty at higher ones. So until I can sort that out, hopefully without new knock-ons I cant schedule an update. If we can rebalance quickly then we will release one ASAP and then decide thereafter if more improvements are needed before or on the data update.

Sorry I cant be more specific!

On a couple of other issues that have been raised I also want to have my say:

- Ball physics. We are far happier with the ball physics in 13 than with what we had in 12, which had a less realistic model. That doesnt mean all is perfect as shown by the odd curve bug but those are rare enough that we concentrate elsewhere for the remainder of the 13 process.

- Reverting to the 12 ME. We consider the 12 ME as "stable" as it was, to be far inferior to the 13 ME. There is roughly a -100000% chance that we will ever revert. We respect the opinions of those who disagree but the only advice I can give them unfortunately is to play 12 instead. Look on it as buying the latest album by a band you like. You get it but it turns out you prefer the album before so you listen to that instead. It happens and we know we can't please everybody.

Thanks all,

Paul

Thanks for the update. At least we know something is going on

[Sussex Hammer]

Anyone had any success in limiting long shots as it's starting to bug me now!!! All are on rare Long shots and have limited CF throughout but full backs, wingers and CM's are just shooting from ridiculous yardage and angles when it seems better options are available.....

[Bobble2002]

Nope but then i can never tell whether mine are long shots or supposedly crappy through balls without constantly referring to the stats box .

Either way even turning everyone down to very few of either they still constantly happen

[enemyzz]

Well having played half a season finally which by the way is the least amount of FM I've ever played on a release, the ball physic's SERIOUSLY need to be looked at. I'm surprised no one has touched on it in more detail. It's painfully obvious every single game that short passing and high direct/long balls over the top physic's are just not right. It's happening with my team and its happening with the AI. That being said medium range passing seems to be fine. But Paul I don't fathom how you can be happy with the physic's at all....

Example A: Short passing between players and the ball more often then not looks like its rolling through 10mm of water on the pitch. It accelerates from the foot then slows down unrealistically. The problem is further confounded(visually) when the defending players at times are closer to the pass, yet they wont intercept or go for the ball and the receiver sort of lurches after the ball. Its almost as if the defenders are being told via the unseen ME mechanics that there's no way they could reach the ball, like the translation between the visuals and behind the scenes are out of sync.

Example B: Long ball over the top in my games 90% of the time its over hit and when that ball hits the ground its like the damn thing is on wet grass or on ice. And EVERY time this happens my winger or striker before the ball hits the ground is sprinting like they can make it to the ball and don't stop even if the ball is 20 meters away until it goes out of play. It is so frustrating.

The last example I'd like to touch on is first touch, which at times looks ridiculous when they side foot control from an air ball and then the ball shoots off and the player ends up running from the halfway to the corner flag to retrieve it.

Well thats my rant for the day. I REALLY REALLY hope the physics are looked at because in my opinion they are one of the key factors in why so many customers and loyal FM lovers are tearing their hair out.

Please SI, don't fail us.

[bailarinasesino]

io non parla italiano, but i can understand it pretty well

match engine??? still the same???

well, another more day without playing then. and im not the only one, im pretty sure!

[TwoHeadedEagle]

I've found a way to play the game and not get irritated by the ME.. Play the games with commentary:)

[eric1000]

just dont get it.

why new ME? SI can use old ME and add more features to it.

the old ME has no problem

The old ME didn't handle some player tactics very well, leading to players walking through virtually every match. Almost any tactic with three strikers ( providing the roles were correct ) was like a cheat. The new ME is supposed to fix this but I'm disgusted with the state it was in when the game released and after three patches it isn't much better.

[eric1000]

This is where we are at:

I am working daily on the 13 ME to provide an update for you hopefully well before the February data update but no date has been set as it isnt ready yet. So far despite having reduced long shots and improved defending vs dribbling etc the knock-ons have left things unbalanced. For example there are not enough goals at lower levels but plenty at higher ones. So until I can sort that out, hopefully without new knock-ons I cant schedule an update. If we can rebalance quickly then we will release one ASAP and then decide thereafter if more improvements are needed before or on the data update.

Sorry I cant be more specific!

On a couple of other issues that have been raised I also want to have my say:

- Ball physics. We are far happier with the ball physics in 13 than with what we had in 12, which had a less realistic model. That doesnt mean all is perfect as shown by the odd curve bug but those are rare enough that we concentrate elsewhere for the remainder of the 13 process.

- Reverting to the 12 ME. We consider the 12 ME as "stable" as it was, to be far inferior to the 13 ME. There is roughly a -100000% chance that we will ever revert. We respect the opinions of those who disagree but the only advice I can give them unfortunately is to play 12 instead. Look on it as buying the latest album by a band you like. You get it but it turns out you prefer the album before so you listen to that instead. It happens and we know we can't please everybody.

Thanks all,

Paul

Thanks for the update, I must disagree with you about the ball physics however. I am not talking about the angle of bounce or the ball curving too much although this happens from time to time. I'm talking about the way friction acts on the ball to slow it down and in this respect the 12 engine was much better. The 13 engine sees the ball speed up after a bounce, it sees headers travelling the entire length of the pitch and it sees the ball constantly outrunning the players until it goes dead simply because it does not slow down quickly enough. In short it acts more like an ice hockey puck than a football. Will this aspect be addressed?

P.S

I know that you don't mean anything by it but telling people that are unhappy to play FM12 instead when they have spent hard earned cash on FM13 really doesn't help from a PR standpoint.

[Herbert Fandel]

I know that you don't mean anything by it but telling people that are unhappy to play FM12 instead when they have spent hard earned cash on FM13 really doesn't help from a PR standpoint.

You mean it doesn't help from the traditional sycophantic PR standpoint. I for one find it quite good PR from a company to firmly state their current product is better than their old one, even in the face of an illogical bandwagon suggesting the contrary.

[eric1000]

You mean it doesn't help from the traditional sycophantic PR standpoint. I for one find it quite good PR from a company to firmly state their current product is better than their old one, even in the face of an illogical bandwagon suggesting the contrary.

Or it's just plain arrogance and a refusal to see what is in front of them.

[AlienIR]

I know my comment is going to look strange here...but it's a feedback too. I'm playing on 13.2.2 patch.

First of all; congratulations to Paul,and the development team;also support as they are doing a lot to give improvment and receive a lot a criticism.

About the new ME, sure it's not perfect yet...but to me, the players are answering to instructions better than they have ever done in the previous opus.

Now I see attacking players close down higher than before...the defense; except of the fullbacks;which are the negative point of that FM, respect IO, the closing down is more realistic etc...

About tactics and formation; it needs to be logical.

In the previous version; your tactic didn't have to be realistic or balanced in role; association and duties to work. Now it does really matter. In the previous version; you didn't have to adapt so much to opposition...and change your way to try to win a match. Now the assistant feedback does really matter.

Now, the fitness is really important, the coaching too..

Well all of these are good points. IMO it makes the game more realistic...To me, it means that development team are on a good way. People often forget the work and time that it needs. So once more congratulations and support to development team.

The bad point is still the behavior of fullback. Yesterday; during a game; I've seen my fullback so close to DC and not closing down at all his wing.

To be clear I was playing counter...so it means that is closing down was really low. So in that case, maybe the idea is to give more defensive role and duty to the winger to make a relation between the both on defensive phase?? I don't know.

Other bad point, if we can call this a bad point. The AI is improving, and the passes and shoot accuracy is improved.

IMO, what people forget is that it improves for both team, for opposition too..

From the latest patch, I see opposition stronger than they were.

The opposition closing down can put your defense on a edge and results in dangerous passes...sometimes own goal or opposition goal. About shots, the opposition shots accurency is better too..now the opposition scores more goals than in the 13.2.1 with the same players and tactic.

Maybe all of this makes the game a little bit harder...I concede that some might find these unpleasant, that the strongest is the opposition the less pleasure they have. But when I buy this game, I'm looking for what makes me become addict more than 10 years ago: the importance of a tactic reflection.

Sure, I enjoy to destroy the opposition 5-0 or something like this...but I don't wait from this game just to make this kind of result every week. If so, I don't play a management game.

But to me it doesn't mean that the ME is not good.

IMO it's the best one of the last years...and I keep in my mind that it's a fresh new ME, that it will be the base of the next FM.

It doesn't mean that the game is perfect, there are always something to improve (I point out transferts, which are just almost impossible or wages are unrealistic sometimes, but it's not an ME issue.)

Hope everything had been clear enough as I'm not a native english speaker.

Have a nice day all

[Herbert Fandel]

Or it's just plain arrogance and a refusal to see what is in front of them.

When you say whats in front of them do you mean the maximum of a couple of hundred people complaining or the ~78,000 per weekday playing the game?

[dazbowski]

That's riduculous, most people will still play regardless. How many units have been sold? The game is flawed and no attempts to mask that will work. Stats can be manipulated anyway you want. How do you know only a maximum of 200 are complaining by the way, have you asked all 78,000? Thought not......

[markybod88]

This is not a rant of how bad this game is i'm just posting to say that fm13 feels very wrong playing it

its not because i am not winning every game or that its not as easy as it used to be it just don't feel fun anymore, no pleasure

playing , not fun.

I am not a newbie only on posting things, i have played every year from the old cm days scince the 90's and even tho it has got

more in depth each year and more tougher it has always been fun to play, on my own or with friends but this one just don't feel fun

and i carn't work out why ?

The match engine is the only bit i'm not happy with as the defence just wonders off in twos and leaves great big holes and the

players look very wooden in their movement unlike last year.

[CityAndColour]

When you say whats in front of them do you mean the maximum of a couple of hundred people complaining or the ~78,000 per weekday playing the game?

I don't know why people throw out stats like this, as if every person who bought the game has a log in.

For all you or I know there are 78,000 others who bought the game and aren't satisfied with it.

[ReggaeBwoy]

What season was it in? If it is down the line then that means nothing, anything can happen in game. Arsenal have taken that kind of a beating IRL in the not too distant past anyhow.

I'm not (necessarily) doubting the game needs fixing, but many people don't give the best reasons for asserting it does.

First season it was as it was nov 2012. However the guy who posted the result always seems to get excessive results like that with whoever he manages so would not read to much into that.

[ReggaeBwoy]

You're not even playing the game until its patched. Don't believe everything you read on the Internet.

I meant the Everton team thread on the good player and team guide. There is screenshots but the reply to Herbert Fandel levels it out some way.

[Herbert Fandel]

I don't know why people throw out stats like this, as if every person who bought the game has a log in.

For all you or I know there are 78,000 others who bought the game and aren't satisfied with it.

Perhaps, but this guy was talking about what is in front of them. The numbers vociferously complaining in front of SI are less than the numbers in front of them playing the game. I was talking about what is in front of them.

The number of total sales minus active players is of litle meaning, as there could be any number of reasons for not playing.

What else is 'in front of them' except for these numbers?

[zakumichal]

Perhaps, but this guy was talking about what is in front of them. The numbers vociferously complaining in front of SI are less than the numbers in front of them playing the game. I was talking about what is in front of them.

The number of total sales minus active players is of litle meaning, as there could be any number of reasons for not playing.

What else is 'in front of them' except for these numbers?

In a lot of threads you are using same argument. That there are a lot of people playing the game worldwide and therefore whoever is complaining about ME is wrong/unimportant. That's at least the way I understand your posts. I must say, I have never felt the need to register to SI forums 'cause untll FM2013 I have never had too much problems with general play.

But as the first game in the season QPR-Tottenham, Lennon just ripped my team apart with half pitch runs through the middle of the park with my team as bystanders (2 goals), than a midfielder missed backpass with defenders still staring at the striker picking up a loose ball and scoring with a finishing blow of a half line goal with my keeper standing "on the goal line" than I must say something is wrong. I get that different things happen in real football, that a lot can depend on tactics used and so on, but taking all under consideration, I think it's too much. Especially since goals scored by missplaced backpasses to defenders happened in 3 of 5 of my games.

So as sad as it makes me, untill next version of ME is released and hopefully resolves this kind of issues, I need to go back to FM2012 as I can not live without FM. Just please do not negate that whoever has a problem with the game is minority not worth paying attention to. This forum is just buzzing with people reporting similar cases...

[milnerpoint]

Thats not what he said, but never mind.

[Herbert Fandel]

In a lot of threads you are using same argument. That there are a lot of people playing the game worldwide and therefore whoever is complaining about ME is wrong/unimportant. That's at least the way I understand your posts. I must say, I have never felt the need to register to SI forums 'cause untll FM2013 I have never had too much problems with general play.

OK, firstly, I have posted the steam stats in in one post in each of 2 threads, both this morning, when I discovered the steam stats. Not exactly a lot of threads, nor a lot of posts. I also agree with city and color that the statistics, like all statistics, are of limited value.

However, your comment precisely actually promotes the idea that they are of value. You only joined once you began to have a problem. By that logic (and I am not claiming that logic to be actually be the case) all these people are happy, and greatly outnumber those 'buzzing' around the forum.

[BiggusD]

OK, firstly, I have posted the steam stats in in one post in each of 2 threads, both this morning, when I discovered the steam stats. Not exactly a lot of threads, nor a lot of posts. I also agree with city and color that the statistics, like all statistics, are of limited value.

However, your comment precisely actually promotes the idea that they are of value. You only joined once you began to have a problem. By that logic (and I am not claiming that logic to be actually be the case) all these people are happy, and greatly outnumber those 'buzzing' around the forum.

... or anyone not part of this forum clearly don't think FM is important enough for them to do so. So they are irrelevant.

[Casual]

Most people I know that play the game are not satisfied but just can't be bothered to come to the forums and complain, and they consider me crazy for doing so. They don't understand how I have the nerves to write, and explain and debate with others on the internet. I would hardly ever register on this forum if I was satisfied with the game. Sure I always had accounts on other community websites and I discussed tactics, players and stuff, but the moment I decided to register here was the moment that I started having serious issues with the game and SI's strategy as well. So I guarantee there are many other people who have problems, but don't have the internet culture or the time to log on here and go in depth on this subject like we do.

Sure there are others who are not forum users but like the game, but if there is a topic about the game where usually out of 100 posts you have 90 hate posts and 10 support posts, (filtering the half of those as unrealistic banter or unrealistic praises posts, you would still get 45 > 5) you can't say that's not a measure of some kind. I'm sure that a forum like this one, that has thousands of registered users and hundreds posting every day, has enough material to be a sample for statistics to say how many people are satisfied with the game.

It's the same with bad things people notice in the game. If you have 30 people in a topic saying there are too many long shots and there are 5 people saying there aren't and it's down to tactics, SI should immediately disregard those 5 people and consider them weirdos, especially if they have arguments like MacZidane had for example It's pure statistics, and it can't be wrong especially when you have 30 realistic people and long-time forum users and gamers who explain everything in depth, which is oftenly a case here.

[kazm]

This ME is terrible. That has nothing to do with the rate of enjoyment of all those players.

It is SI's ambition to create the best and most realistic manager sim. Maybe indeed i am the only one of those 78000 not enjoying myself so what? That doesn't change the fact this game has no real throughballs or that all players are reduced to mentally unstable idiots. They should improve the game because it is below the level they aspire to reach, in a way people will still enjoy it.

Fact is a lot of these people probably did not even notice it. Thats awesome for them. Changes nothing though.

I understand i can't complain in a game like CoD that it is not realistic/that it is unbalanced: that game wants to be like that and its buyers want it like that.

This whole argument is irrelevant. The fact that these same problems are mentioned over and over again proves they are in the game and thus also in the games the rest of those 78000 play unless they are all pro-modders. You don't need to hear from all of them that they saw it too.

[themadsheep2001]

Most people I know that play the game are not satisfied but just can't be bothered to come to the forums and complain, and they consider me crazy for doing so. They don't understand how I have the nerves to write, and explain and debate with others on the internet. I would hardly ever register on this forum if I was satisfied with the game. Sure I always had accounts on other community websites and I discussed tactics, players and stuff, but the moment I decided to register here was the moment that I started having serious issues with the game and SI's strategy as well. So I guarantee there are many other people who have problems, but don't have the internet culture or the time to log on here and go in depth on this subject like we do.

Sure there are others who are not forum users but like the game, but if there is a topic about the game where usually out of 100 posts you have 90 hate posts and 10 support posts, (filtering the half of those as unrealistic banter or unrealistic praises posts, you would still get 45 > 5) you can't say that's not a measure of some kind. I'm sure that a forum like this one, that has thousands of registered users and hundreds posting every day, has enough material to be a sample for statistics to say how many people are satisfied with the game.

It's the same with bad things people notice in the game. If you have 30 people in a topic saying there are too many long shots and there are 5 people saying there aren't and it's down to tactics, SI should immediately disregard those 5 people and consider them weirdos, especially if they have arguments like MacZidane had for example It's pure statistics, and it can't be wrong especially when you have 30 realistic people and long-time forum users and gamers who explain everything in depth, which is oftenly a case here.

That's really poor logic, in fact its almost nonsense. By your logic the vast majority of the 78,000 arent on here pointing out issues, therefor we should dismiss the people pointing out issues since they are statistically in the minority...

And yet we know that is a terrible idea. You dont dismiss anyone on pure statistics You try and qualify each and every report and opinion, some might be useful, some might not. Thats why there is a bugs thread, thats why they ask for PKMs and save games

Here's a hypothetical thought, what if the 30 people dont actually know they are talking about, but the 5 people are experts who know the game inside and out, what do you do then? Dismiss the experts? See the flaw in that logic?

At end the of the day providing its constructive and backed up, SI should try to look at every piece of feedback, whether its from a long time player or someone new, and then qualify and quantify it themselves, but never dismiss anything out of hand, and thankfully as far as I can tell that is exactly what they do.

[Emmeth]

Tuning the ME in terms of statistics shouldn't be too difficult. Just take 100 real matches of Premier, 100 of Champ and 100 of League 1 and so on. Grab the statistics from the real games and set the ME accordingly to reproduce more or less the same amount of highlights, depending of course on the teams involved that may influence one or the other team, in terms of chances balance.

Instead, I keep on seeing gazillions of insane crappy long shots finishing several meters away from the goal, I keep on seeing an intricate and prolonged web network of short & reiterated passes in the middlefield zone and above all I keep on seeing no difference between Contain strategy and Overload, f.i. my players act on the field in the very same way depsite I set Contain or Overload.

This latest one is the most irritating issue IMO.

[milnerpoint]

Its not just as simple as that tho, as Paul's previous post stated, the version they have now has the right amount of goals in the top leagues, but too few in the lower leagues, they dont balance things a league at a time, its for the entire world of football from any level.

[Casual]

That's really poor logic, in fact its almost nonsense. By your logic the vast majority of the 78,000 arent on here pointing out issues, therefor we should dismiss the people pointing out issues since they are statistically in the minority...

And yet we know that is a terrible idea. You dont dismiss anyone on pure statistics You try and qualify each and every report and opinion, some might be useful, some might not. Thats why there is a bugs thread, thats why they ask for PKMs and save games

Here's a hypothetical thought, what if the 30 people dont actually know they are talking about, but the 5 people are experts who know the game inside and out, what do you do then? Dismiss the experts? See the flaw in that logic?

At end the of the day providing its constructive and backed up, SI should try to look at every piece of feedback, whether its from a long time player or someone new, and then qualify and quantify it themselves, but never dismiss anything out of hand, and thankfully as far as I can tell that is exactly what they do.

No, you got it all wrong. Of course I didn't mean if you have 5 constructive posts against 30 stupid ones, that you should consider the number. I said, in the begining filter out all the stupid ones, and that is not so hard especially for FM experts. Then besides the arguments, a number must be a factor especially when we are talking about gameplay. It's easy to notice bugs in the game like there is a problem with taxes. You don't need to many people posting to see that. But when we are talking about people's general satisfaction with the game, if it is too easy, too hard, if there are a lot of random results, unrealistic events, than if you have 50 people claiming they are not satisfied, and 5 saying they are, who should you trust? And again, remember, we are talking about constructive posts!

My argument is based on the number I SEE, and some other people's argument is based on their ASSUMPTION that in a wide FM univese they IMAGINE there are players who are satisfied but they don't come here. Well, I say I know more of those who are NOT satisfied and don't come here. And what are we gonna do now?

So let us not talk about the imaginary people who don't come here, because their satisfaction cannot be measured. The satisfaction of people who come to forums CAN, and it definetely goes against FM.

[Emmeth]

Not to mention when I set Overload and all of my players, back to the opposite goal as they like to play.., keep on passing calmly the ball to my own keeper to repeat the tragedy over and over when I set Overload as strategy. That's outrageous.

[Kriss]

Tuning the ME in terms of statistics shouldn't be too difficult. Just take 100 real matches of Premier, 100 of Champ and 100 of League 1 and so on. Grab the statistics from the real games and set the ME accordingly to reproduce more or less the same amount of highlights, depending of course on the teams involved that may influence one or the other team, in terms of chances balance..

Don't give up your day job.

[themadsheep2001]

No, you got it all wrong. Of course I didn't mean if you have 5 constructive posts against 30 stupid ones, that you should consider the number. I said, in the begining filter out all the stupid ones, and that is not so hard especially for FM experts. Then besides the arguments, a number must be a factor especially when we are talking about gameplay. It's easy to notice bugs in the game like there is a problem with taxes. You don't need to many people posting to see that. But when we are talking about people's general satisfaction with the game, if it is too easy, too hard, if there are a lot of random results, unrealistic events, than if you have 50 people claiming they are not satisfied, and 5 saying they are, who should you trust? And again, remember, we are talking about constructive posts!

When it comes to the Match Engine itself, it shouldn't be about easy or hard, it should be about getting as close as possible to a realistic 90 minutes of football. The difficulty should ideally be set by everything outside the Match Engine.

Its not about trust, assuming each post is constructive and backed up, then every single person' view is valid, and should not be dismissed.

Satisfaction is entirely subjective.

[2Pacalypse]

Far from being the first one to say this, but the amount of long shots is ridiculous. Doesn't matter what the setting is, doesn't matter if it is with their weaker foot, they still try it way too often .. but, overall, i'm enjoying the game.

[Casual]

When it comes to the Match Engine itself, it shouldn't be easy or hard, it should be about getting as close as possible to a realistic 90 minutes of football. The difficulty should ideally be set by everything outside the Match Engine.

Yet every year we have extremes in this field. It's either too easy or too hard, the middle is rarely reached so talking about it at the moment sounds utopistic to me.

[RTHerringbone]

Satisfaction is entirely subjective.

Precisely.

To-ing and fro-ing arguments about the quantum of complaints against a population of players is absolutely subjective, and therefore statistically worthless.

[Emmeth]

Don't give up your day job.

Today I am plenty of time to produce constructive critics about the ME

[tigerhgrrrrrr]

My new two-penneth worth:

I cannot help thinking that the FM 12 ME with the other "features" of FM13 (FMC, role search funtions etc) "bolted on" would be the perfect FM for me. I imagine this was unrealistic and a new ME needed to be given its head in the market place.

On that basis, the usual "patching life" (ie period from release of demo to final patch) is usually 5-6 months. Maybe this release that could be stretched to 8-9 months so patches/hot fixes could be release up until June/July 2013. I do not want to delay the release of FM14 but surely that extra "in the field development feedback", assuming that the ME from FM13 will be exported entirely in its most stable form into FM14, would be extremely helpful.