Match Engine Update 13.2.1 - ME 1325 Constructive feedback here please

[Hunter T]

I am sorry but i am failing to see how this mockery is fun.

[video=youtube;ax9Y90Bi91k]

i am wolfsburg (3rd) playing Furth (14th) away the final day in Bundesliga.

Talking about dreadfull defending but hey, wouldnt you know it, my defenders (i am playing a 3-5-2) have ratings SW 6.8 and my two DCs 7.0

Now, i know that some people might see this and say it is not a bug but i am sorry to say and i sincerely mean it, but they ll be kiding themselves.

[Tinkerman84]

It's true.

That kind of feedback dont help to improve the game.

i do not want to be incosnstructive.. but we must understand the fact that some peole doesn't have the time or energy to help improve the game by ironing out the issues..

but they stil pay and wait for the game.. so there's something wrong with to be patient and help improve the game policy..

[Osmium]

Lots of people get upset when disgruntled consumers air their opinions here. Opinions may not always be positive, however this was a £30 product that does not live up to the standards of the franchise. Even from playing cm9798 all the way to fm 2012 i have never felt the match engine was as bad as this. Yes older versions were more simple but the worked. Would you spend £30 on a football game if you knew that 90% of shots will be outside the box & a good few will be hitting the corner flag (irrespective of your input)? Can you honestly say a leading football game title in 2013 should be releasing a game with such fundamental bugs. I mean interface bugs can be forgiven but for the ME to have so many issues is just not good enough.

Football is played on the pitch & the 90 minutes are the fundamental part of the game. I know we are awaiting fixes, however i feel the degree of these bugs are so significant they should be fixed ASAP because as far as im concerned SI currently have a game that is not worth playing. Given the standards of their previous titles i would expect SI to be concerned about the failures in this years game and be working doubly hard to get it patched ASAP. However approaching 3 months and we are still talking about this is very disappointing.

What really annoys folks is the fact that all these issues were not in last years game & this begs to question was this game tested enough or was it a case of we'll patch it later. I really hope its not the latter otherwise i'll be tempted to think SI know they have this market cornered & hence dont care anymore. Maybe we need another developer to start making football manager sims just to ensure healthy competition.

When i buy a game or any product for that matter i want the finished product. Football manager is the only game i still enjoy however i feel those days might be coming to an end.

[Osmium]

i do not want to be incosnstructive.. but we must understand the fact that some peole doesn't have the time or energy to help improve the game by ironing out the issues..

but they stil pay and wait for the game.. so there's something wrong with to be patient and help improve the game policy..

Totally agree. I am not a game developer & i never wanted to be, hence i dont get paid to do it. However i am a consumer & have paid for a product to use (NOT to develop).

[Osmium]

If i worked at SI and play the game as they lead us to believe then i would know for a fact that the current ME is not fit to to be called FM. I definitely wouldn't leave my loyal consumers weeks on end with this current ME. Lets not forget FM is a large franchise & not a one man small project. We need this patch ASAP!

[Svenc]

I am sorry but i am failing to see how this mockery is fun.

[video=youtube;ax9Y90Bi91k]

i am wolfsburg (3rd) playing Furth (14th) away the final day in Bundesliga.

Talking about dreadfull defending but hey, wouldnt you know it, my defenders (i am playing a 3-5-2) have ratings SW 6.8 and my two DCs 7.0

Now, i know that some people might see this and say it is not a bug but i am sorry to say and i sincerely mean it, but they ll be kiding themselves

The balancing issues of this ME are by now well known, in particular in regarding to long shots, final third movement, through balls. However, I think if you cannot tolerate the play shown in this video it is in your best interest to stay away from the series, as it isn't meant to simulate fantasy football in which bad clearances, bad first touches and bad decisions don't happen, but the real thing, in which they do. Nothing new in this ME and no kidding at all.

[RTHerringbone]

The balancing issues of this ME are by now well known, in particular in regarding to long shots, final third movement, through balls. However, I think if you cannot tolerate the play shown in this video it is in your best interest to stay away from the series, as it isn't meant to simulate fantasy football in which bad clearances, bad first touches and bad decisions don't happen, but the real thing, in which they do. No kidding at all.

I agree, there's actually very little wrong with either goal. The first is actually quite brilliant to watch.

[treble_yell_:-)]

Lots of people get upset when disgruntled consumers air their opinions here.

Who cares, SI will know that FM 13 hasn't been as well received as previous versions (review aggregation sits show this, 13 is a good bit lower than 12 on user reviews at certain popular sites for example) and that's all that matters.

I've decided to write 13 off, I've already got my £19 worth, and everything from here on in is feedback to make sure I don't buy a half finished game in November 2013.

[milnerpoint]

I dont really see much wrong with the first goal, the second one fair enough the clearance isnt great, but are we wanting to eliminate every single mistake that could happen? Absolutely not. There are ME issues, but i dont see either of those goals as ME bugs.

Now before im jumped on, im not saying the ME is perfect, not defending SI to the hill, and i dont want a fanboy comment coming my way for saying this.

[wwfan]

There are definite and possible bugs in both goals.

Definite: In both the GK should be staying on his goal line. I don't know what he is doing in the first, but he should be trying to track the ball across the goal. In the second, he's anticipating where the ball will land (good) but isn't considering that the attacker might get there first (bad).

Possible: In the first, arguments could be made that both defenders to the left of the near post should be getting to the ball before the attacker. They don't have to control the ball, but they should be trying to get something on it. The defender that the ball rolls across could be wrong footed, but the one further out makes a bugged movement away from the ball, which gives the attacker the half second needed to get the cross in (although he might have just got there first anyway). The closing down defender also makes what might be a bug (or a bad decision) in trying to block a near post shot rather than the ball back across the area. The defender near the penalty spot also drifts in the wrong direction instead of trying to block a cross. He could have easily got the the edge of the 6-yard box to block the pull back.

Nothing wrong with the second goal bar the keeper. There's a case that the defender making the clearing header should have rushed forward more quickly, but that would relate to whether he has the right attributes to do so (balance and acceleration). If he's dodgy in these areas, he'll struggle to push forward directly after landing, which plays the attacker just onside.

@ HunterT: If you could upload a pkm of these goals and include the above description in a bug forum thread, I'm sure SI would be very grateful.

[Hunter T]

Thanks wwfan, now i know i am not crazy. My DCs are Naldo and Simon Kjær, pretty decent i think.

[Herbert Fandel]

Of course I defer to the higher knowledge of the wwfan, but with regard to the first one, it looks like the collision whatever it is is seeing the GK getting blocked off and essentially shepherded around by his confused defenders. His movement seems reasonably natural from if one imagines a similar stramash IRL, except the players dont all fall on top of each other as realistically, looks to me like he is trying to track the ball but the defenders are in his way.

[Hunter T]

Just to add something, i dont mind mistakes. Ofcourse they happen in every game, to anyone. The rate of the mistakes and the poor defending in general, is what worries me. Its just too high. I mean in the first goal the cross has been cut out and the ball is clearly going to my defender (just freeze the video in the 14th sec) Look where my SW (kagelsomething and my WBL (kleber) is in regards with the ball and the attacker. How is it possible for him to get to the ball first?

[wwfan]

Of course I defer to the higher knowledge of the wwfan, but with regard to the first one, it looks like the collision whatever it is is seeing the GK getting blocked off and essentially shepherded around by his confused defenders. His movement seems reasonably natural from if one imagines a similar stramash IRL, except the players dont all fall on top of each other as realistically, looks to me like he is trying to track the ball but the defenders are in his way.

The GK and DC seem to be focused on stopping the near post attacker. All well and good, except it is the far post attacker who's on the ball. At 0:16, it is clear that the ball is going to the back post, so they should both be working hard to get back across goal.

The DC certainly blocks the keeper and might be man marking the near post attacker? This might explain why he tracks him. Even so, in such situations, getting between the danger and the goal should override tactical instructions. I think the ME has a major weakness in how players defend such situations because they stick to rigidly to tactical instructions rather than going hells bells to get between the danger and the goal. It is tricky to fix because it doesn't happen that regularly, so needs intensive focus from a dedicated tester to pick up.

[Chris21]

Quite amazing its been 24 pages and still no hotfix/patch.

Although I'd wait til the data update in Feb/March if it means making it perfect.

[ChelseaSince86]

Quite amazing its been 24 pages and still no hotfix/patch.

Although I'd wait til the data update in Feb/March if it means making it perfect.

This coming week I hope. I actually wouldn't mind the ME if backpost goals were less frequent. They're far too common

[Tiesto123456]

i haven't played it since this patch ruined it for me, been about 3 - 4 weeks. I miss playing it and you need to hurry up with this patch. I was really getting into it before wasn't perfect but defiantly much better than this patch.

Thanks

[Keyzer Soze]

I am sorry but i am failing to see how this mockery is fun.

i am wolfsburg (3rd) playing Furth (14th) away the final day in Bundesliga.

Talking about dreadfull defending but hey, wouldnt you know it, my defenders (i am playing a 3-5-2) have ratings SW 6.8 and my two DCs 7.0

Now, i know that some people might see this and say it is not a bug but i am sorry to say and i sincerely mean it, but they ll be kiding themselves.

To be honest, in both goals the only i think is a little buggy, imo, is the goalkeeper behavior.

His reaction to the game play always look a bit strange and slow.

Apart from that, it's obvious the bad clearance in the second goal... but thats the sort of thing that can happen in football even with top defenders.

[Herbert Fandel]

. I think the ME has a major weakness in how players defend such situations because they stick to rigidly to tactical instructions rather than going hells bells to get between the danger and the goal

I'd agree with that, and was about to say there should be more 'last-ditch' behaviour by defenders, but then I remembered the slide tackleOGs in one of the previous builds

[Jibby123]

Real life football is buggy as **** to be honest.

Let's face it; everyone thinks they're the expert on 'how it should be' in real life. How you simulate that on an ME in a computer program is way beyond me. If wwfan has it nailed he needs to manage SI or Man Utd both in real life. Problems solved.

Watching Match of the Day just tonight is a case in point; their whole analysis and expert opinion is based on the result, ignoring the fact that a good result is inches apart wide or inside of the goal.

But come on....

[Honey Monster]

I just conceded a goal as a result of a throw in taken about 5 yards in from the touchline, the player literally picked up the ball and took the throw close to the corner of the penalty area. Is this a known bug?

[DAVE82]

Quite amazing its been 24 pages and still no hotfix/patch.

Although I'd wait til the data update in Feb/March if it means making it perfect.

Save me going back through hundreds of posts of searching - has there been much feedback over the last few days? Are they releasing something soon ? Or is it a complete unknown still ? Before new year it was quoted as being 'up to 2 weeks' !

[themadsheep2001]

Save me going back through hundreds of posts of searching - has there been much feedback over the last few days? Are they releasing something soon ? Or is it a complete unknown still ? Before new year it was quoted as being 'up to 2 weeks' !

It was upto 2 weeks if possible. Personally I'd rather they take their time.

[tigerhgrrrrrr]

I dont really see much wrong with the first goal, the second one fair enough the clearance isnt great, but are we wanting to eliminate every single mistake that could happen? Absolutely not. There are ME issues, but i dont see either of those goals as ME bugs.

Now before im jumped on, im not saying the ME is perfect, not defending SI to the hill, and i dont want a fanboy comment coming my way for saying this.

What is starting to worry me now is that apart from the keeper movement (which is no worse that I have seen nearly every match in FM13) I would have accepted these goals against me as "not bugged, just football", and realising just how much I have reacted to the other nonsense I have seen in my own matches makes me realise the ME may actually be even worse than I realised. Really appreciate wwfan's assessment, note his new Mod titile, would seem he is working alongside PaulC's team and this we should all take as a huge positive as this will mean the next patch will be the best that it can be.

Sadly the current patch is so wrong I fear we will not see this ME in an acceptable (by my reckoning) state until FM14.

[themadsheep2001]

What is starting to worry me now is that apart from the keeper movement (which is no worse that I have seen nearly every match in FM13) I would have accepted these goals against me as "not bugged, just football", and realising just how much I have reacted to the other nonsense I have seen in my own matches makes me realise the ME may actually be even worse than I realised. Really appreciate wwfan's assessment, note his new Mod titile, would seem he is working alongside PaulC's team and this we should all take as a huge positive as this will mean the next patch will be the best that it can be.

Sadly the current patch is so wrong I fear we will not see this ME in an acceptable (by my reckoning) state until FM14.

I think you are needlessly worrying yourself a bit here.

[tigerhgrrrrrr]

For me it's fun because I'm playing FMC and using instant results and 2D till the main ME glitches are sorted, in fact I'm enjoying it so much I may not ever start a full game save.

You see you should never assume that your criteria for fun and/or a good game is everybody elses.

Oh Lord, would you like one of us to play the game for you and PM you the results?

Joking aside, could you point me in the direction of a thread about creating match plans, I do like this way of playing too ("Grandstand Manager" mode I call it) but I only seem to be able to get sensible results with the preset match plans, although I set a new plan to match what I would actually do in a match the implementation of it is not very good.

[tigerhgrrrrrr]

I think you are needlessly worrying yourself a bit here.

I do hope you are right. The constant chasing of the next patch is not going to make it any better and every extra day we wait we should see as contributing to a more stable solution.

[wwfan]

What is starting to worry me now is that apart from the keeper movement (which is no worse that I have seen nearly every match in FM13) I would have accepted these goals against me as "not bugged, just football", and realising just how much I have reacted to the other nonsense I have seen in my own matches makes me realise the ME may actually be even worse than I realised. Really appreciate wwfan's assessment, note his new Mod titile, would seem he is working alongside PaulC's team and this we should all take as a huge positive as this will mean the next patch will be the best that it can be.

Sadly the current patch is so wrong I fear we will not see this ME in an acceptable (by my reckoning) state until FM14.

Note that I said "possible" bugs. Further, I don't think fixing them would necessarily have stopped either goal being scored, merely make them look slightly more realistic. They are more a case of polishing than fixing (bar the GK movement).

I also think there's much to admire in each goal, especially the passes into space and the first shot logic.

In terms of the current ME, the core focus has to be improving attacking movement around the d-line, which is the root cause of many of the long shots, and better defending against the dribbler. Get that right and we'll have a really good ME (in terms of balance and rewarding good play/tactics). The polishy stuff is nice but not fundamental (at least in immediate terms).

Note, also, that I have often responded to some of the more ranting posts about ME bugs by suggesting they are not bugs at all, but impossible expectation from the user.

[Kriss]

Oh Lord, would you like one of us to play the game for you and PM you the results?

Joking aside, could you point me in the direction of a thread about creating match plans, I do like this way of playing too ("Grandstand Manager" mode I call it) but I only seem to be able to get sensible results with the preset match plans, although I set a new plan to match what I would actually do in a match the implementation of it is not very good.

Don't use match plans, my key to (eventual) success is using roles to get balance from front to back then gradually getting better players for particular roles.

I say eventual because I don't select a team to take to ultimate glory, I play a career starting with a bottom tier club and usually get sacked a few times in the early stages.

Just because all these frills are in the game doesn't mean you need to use them.

[tigerhgrrrrrr]

Don't use match plans, my key to (eventual) success is using roles to get balance from front to back then gradually getting better players for particular roles.

I say eventual because I don't select a team to take to ultimate glory, I play a career starting with a bottom tier club and usually get sacked a few times in the early stages.

Just because all these frills are in the game doesn't mean you need to use them.

No, of course. And match plans/instant result may be too hands off for many but it seems a part of the game with very little informed/official support so far. As I have said before I would like a game mode which is essentially FMC with instant result and match plans but where you see the "highlights" in real time, ie the reult is unknown but the highlights run telling you how you did "live" incident by incident, the next development of which would be if possible that you could interupt the match and take control again or make manual changes to tactics or substitutions. Not saying that would be my preferred way of playing but FFFM doesnt appeal to me at all now we have FMC - except that for the FM13 ME reasons I am now playing FM12 again where you only have the FF option!.

But then, my CM0102 disk is never too far out of reach

[Chris Waddle]

I've gone back to FM12, but have re-installed 13 to see if issues that annoy me in 12, have been fixed.

Can you please get rid of the player on 2 goals getting to take a penalty should one occur. It drives me mad. I am the manager, I decide who takes penalties. I do not want some pathetic in game decision stopping my penalty taker from stepping up. Even if you do think that this is a nice option, it's not your decision to make! If you insist in having this trite piece of nonsense in the game, make it an selectable option.

I'm not going to start on the ME in 13, it's so hopeless it's beyond saving.

[hyborian]

Seriously guys with all due respect u have to fix this too many shots issue. Its annoyingly unrealistic and comical. Right now i am playing Newcastle against Inter at first round after ch l groups stage and at half time shots are 21-11. I play a 4-5-1 control system. Nothing that would allow such a shot party. This could not happen even if real players were allowing a shot for every time opposition gets through the center of the field.

[jujigatame]

Just to add something, i dont mind mistakes. Ofcourse they happen in every game, to anyone. The rate of the mistakes and the poor defending in general, is what worries me. Its just too high. I mean in the first goal the cross has been cut out and the ball is clearly going to my defender (just freeze the video in the 14th sec) Look where my SW (kagelsomething and my WBL (kleber) is in regards with the ball and the attacker. How is it possible for him to get to the ball first?

I think this a great example of a pervasive problem with the ME. Players seemed to get "locked in" to their behaviors and often seem oblivious to changes in conditions on the field. I think your example is a good one, clearly you have 2 defenders in position to clear the ball yet they both seem oblivious to the situation and an attacker blows right by them. Also the other goal isn't a bad example either. The keeper moves to where the ball is headed, oblivious to the fact that there is an attacker in place who will ensure the ball will never get to that point.

[jujigatame]

Also, just from being home sick and watching a lot of EPL games this weekend, I've been trying to see where FM fails as a simulation. I think the biggest issues at this point are the overabundance of dribbling runs and long shots (I know, these are known issues) and a dearth of long passes, either into space or onto the feet. When you watch top flight football you see a good amount of sharp, pacey 15-20 yard passes that FM seems to be lacking in its current iteration.

[stevemc]

Was a patch released over the weekend?

[hsvruled]

Was a patch released over the weekend?

Wasn't ... But i didn't play for couple of days and i'm almost sure it is possible to do sneaky patches. i see a difference ..

[Kriss]

Wasn't ... But i didn't play for couple of days and i'm almost sure it is possible to do sneaky patches. i see a difference ..

No there wasn't and no it isn't, but conspiracy theories are fun

[stevemc]

No there wasn't and no it isn't, but conspiracy theories are fun

Why are people talking about 13.2.2 then?

Sorry, I've not played for a week or two, I'm waiting for a patch.

[Herbert Fandel]

Why are people talking about 13.2.2 then?

Sorry, I've not played for a week or two, I'm waiting for a patch.

It made some changes to online play, but left the ME untouched. was also a while ago, not over the weekend

[stevemc]

It made some changes to online play, but left the ME untouched. was also a while ago, not over the weekend

Oh right cheers, there is no point me making Steam online to update it then, as that wouldn't effect me.

[Hurball]

The long shooting has finally become too much. I put up with it for one season where it didn't have too much of a bearing on the result, but this season has been a joke. If I fall behind I really struggle to get back into a game because all my players do is shoot from range.

v Chelsea I match them all game and lose to an own goal (slow pass back from a defender that the goalkeeper seemed baffled by, no Chelsea players within 20 yards of him)

v Juventus / Pescara / Palermo / Spezia / etc etc etc I control possession and dominate the games, but despite having 20+ shots on goal very few of these are actual chances. Players get into great positions to cross / play a through ball and then blast the ball over from 25 yards. Around 60-70% of my shots are long range ones from players I've specifically told not to shoot. And then the opposition will score from a set play, and my team will create even fewer chances, and continue to blast the ball over.

It's absurd. If I don't score first I very very rarely get back into a game, no matter how much I controlled it prior to their goal. And the long shots issue means I can't really change things to improve that. If I bring on more strikers they never see the ball since my midfield seems intent on never playing through balls, and this gives more possession to the opposition since I have fewer men in midfield / defence.

Also dribbling and pace attributes are massively overpowered. Douglas Costa is unreal against me, and my wing back Cuadrado goes on at least 1 60 yard run a game. He's scored three wondergoals, dribbling past literally half the opposition untackled before getting a shot away. To be honest, he's the only player willing to shoot from inside the box, yet he really shouldn't be able to get there.

And then there's the byline goals, where players dribble along the byline and somehow score from a 90 degree angle and with the GK covering his near post. In reality these balls should be cutbacks for someone to maybe finish, but in FM13 the player just shoots himself and sees what happens.

[Hurball]

Real life football is buggy as **** to be honest.

Let's face it; everyone thinks they're the expert on 'how it should be' in real life. How you simulate that on an ME in a computer program is way beyond me. If wwfan has it nailed he needs to manage SI or Man Utd both in real life. Problems solved.

Watching Match of the Day just tonight is a case in point; their whole analysis and expert opinion is based on the result, ignoring the fact that a good result is inches apart wide or inside of the goal.

But come on....

This is a good point, and in individual games makes complete sense. However, once I notice the same things happening in every game (too many long shots, players missing CCC headers a the back post, unstoppable dribbles down the byline) it becomes an issue.

The beauty of football is that the best side does not always win. Random defeats to horrible teams is to be expected, and winning every game easily would be a boring experience. But I at least want my players to attempt through balls and not waste possession high up the pitch, especially when we're losing 1-0, and especially when I've specifically told them to never shoot from range.

And something else I've noticed - CCCs are usually missed, never saved. I don't think I've seen a GK have a blinder yet, or pull off a few great saves. If I have 5 CCCs, 4-5 of them will have been put wide or hit the woodwork.

[LiamOT]

This is a good point, and in individual games makes complete sense. However, once I notice the same things happening in every game (too many long shots, players missing CCC headers a the back post, unstoppable dribbles down the byline) it becomes an issue.

The beauty of football is that the best side does not always win. Random defeats to horrible teams is to be expected, and winning every game easily would be a boring experience. But I at least want my players to attempt through balls and not waste possession high up the pitch, especially when we're losing 1-0, and especially when I've specifically told them to never shoot from range.

And something else I've noticed - CCCs are usually missed, never saved. I don't think I've seen a GK have a blinder yet, or pull off a few great saves. If I have 5 CCCs, 4-5 of them will have been put wide or hit the woodwork.

The finishing on the game is terrible as well.

Players miss the easiest of chances, regularly. Regardless of the Finishing + Composure Attribute.

[tajj 7]

Anyone had this situation -

My team is taking an attacking freekick, right hand side of the pitch about 40 yards from the goal.

Whole oppositon team is defending.

I have two fullbacks hanging back + the freekick taker. Rest of my team are up for the freekick.

taker for some reason decides to play the ball to the fullback.

Whole oppo team rushes out and goes to close down my fullback, who dallies on ball trying to avoid being takcled.

During this time whilst my fullback is in possesion none of the rest of my team come back or return to their positions, they stay haning around the edge of the box despite being very offside.

Eventually my fullback tried to make a pass, it gets intercepted and the opposition score as it's like 6 on 2.

???

[jasse]

yeah, seen it, irritating as hell. similar thing happens from corners and dead ball cleared by defenders. when you corner taker as well as full back dance around not seing the ball, while AI rushes towards it and mounts a counter attack. lets just hope that SI guys have looked into it and will fix it in next patch.

[scooby2008]

may I ask why is the hotfix taking so long?

[Herbert Fandel]

may I ask why is the hotfix taking so long?

Did I miss something with this "hotfix" name? In my understandings, hotfixes are released to address identified game breaking errors.

I'm not aware of SI every saying there was a hotfix in the pipeline for the ME, though of course I haven't read everything they have ever said.

I thought they were just simply working on improving the ME in their own time to produce an "ME update", presumably as fast as possible and without being rushed into releasing something incomplete.

Its not like they are just going to turn some magical 'long shots' dial down a notch and release it. They will be working on everything, and testing for hour after hour to look for subtle knock-on effects, and I, frustrated as I am by the shot stastics in matches, am glad they are taking their time and doing as good a job as possible with it.

Don't get me wrong though, I'm very much looking forward to it coming out, but it will be whenever SI think it is ready, and not before.

[Guest]

This really is the most frustrating ME I've played on an FM/CM game at the moment. Why is my world class goalkeeper constantly playing ridiculously bad balls straight to the opposition when he has great kicking and composure stats? He's not doing it under pressure, either, and he's two footed.

[wally13]

may I ask why is the hotfix taking so long?

Because it needs testing to make sure it dose't create any other issues simple

[scooby2008]

Did I miss something with this "hotfix" name? In my understandings, hotfixes are released to address identified game breaking errors.

I'm not aware of SI every saying there was a hotfix in the pipeline for the ME, though of course I haven't read everything they have ever said.

I thought they were just simply working on improving the ME in their own time to produce an "ME update", presumably as fast as possible and without being rushed into releasing something incomplete.

Its not like they are just going to turn some magical 'long shots' dial down a notch and release it. They will be working on everything, and testing for hour after hour to look for subtle knock-on effects, and I, frustrated as I am by the shot stastics in matches, am glad they are taking their time and doing as good a job as possible with it.

Yeah, I understand what you mean, but 1325 doesn't seem to had a 'succesful' testing process.