Match Engine Update 13.2.1 - ME 1325 Constructive feedback here please

[Korleone]

Hey guys, dont know how far away any new ME patch is, but i think the curley wurley balls still needs looking at :-)

and for an aerial view

[video=youtube;di-Y9Dtv4BI]

Needless to say i was raging at a back line full of internationals but managed to nick a 2-1 win

.. again and again , FM 2013=Epic Fail

Constructive idea for SI: start to work on FM 2014

[BiggusD]

Good lord I cannot watch another "clearance" that puts the ball right into the middle of the box for an attacker. This is killing me.

Yes clearances need a boost. Too many too bad ones. In addition, the commentary indicates that they are excellent clearances, which make things even worse. The disconnect between the commentary in general and what actually happens on the pitch has been there for years, and it is worse now than ever. An "Excellent pass" hits an opponent directly in the path to its target, an "fantastic team effort" is a loose ball which one opponent picks up first, etc etc... I think everyone would be better off if the commentary got rid of the superlatives and "headliny" approach entirely.

[RTHerringbone]

As in bowel movement?

Does this still relate to tropical curling?

[RTHerringbone]

.. again and again , FM 2013=Epic Fail

Constructive idea for SI: start to work on FM 2014

Bad news for you is that FM13 (particularly the new ME) is the start of work on FM14.

Why not just exercise a bit more patience and see what the next updates bring?

[Kingofpilot]

Bad news for you is that FM13 (particularly the new ME) is the start of work on FM14.

Why not just exercise a bit more patience and see what the next updates bring?

We have had 3 updates so far and all of them were poor, with the last two being absolutely shocking. You cant blame people for losing patience and hope. I anticipate that the next update will, as usual this year, reverse everything back from one xtreme to another - no shots, no crosses etc. If you expect that this year´s ME will magically get better after the last update you should prepare yourself for major dissapointment.

[RTHerringbone]

We have had 3 updates so far and all of them were poor, with the last two being absolutely shocking. You cant blame people for losing patience and hope. I anticipate that the next update will, as usual this year, reverse everything back from one xtreme to another - no shots, no crosses etc. If you expect that this year´s ME will magically get better after the last update you should prepare yourself for major dissapointment.

Ignoring differences in how we perceive the quality of updates so far to have been (I got a lot of enjoyment from the second, and have managed to work around the flaws in the third), the reality should be that however we view the ME currently, the tweaks made to date should be bringing it closer to an "acceptable" product for those who currently deem it not to be.

[Candre168]

The funny thing is, I'm hearing all these complaints but come October 2013, 98% of these people will have pre-ordered FM14 saying it's got amazing new features and is going to be a massive improvement.

[Domus Clamantium]

For those complaining about long shots/no through balls, look at this beautiful play:

[video=youtube;J61ucxIwNBI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J61ucxIwNBI

Tactics

Formation: 4-2-3-1

Positions/Roles/Duties:

GK (Defend)

DL (Full Back Support)

DCL (Limited Defend)

DCR (Limited Defend)

DR (Full Back Support)

DMCL (Deep Lying Playmaker Support)

DMCR (Defensive Midfielder Defend)

AML (Winger Support)

AMC (Advanced Playmaker Support)

AMR (Winger Support)

STC (Advanced Forward Attack)

Mentality: Counter

Style: Rigid

Other: Drill crosses, everything else default, long shots rarely on every player, set team playmaker = DMCL

Shame you can't see the great passing beforehand. This is against Colchester (Away!) who are League 1 and we are still league 2 (top of the league, mind) and dominating. The goalscorer, Henning Johannessen (on loan from Norwegian semi-pro side Moss FK as cover) is my AMC. The assist is from my set team playmaker, Jack Payne. Johannessen has 9 finishing, 10 composure, 11 anticipation, 8 flair, 8 pace, 11 acceleration, and 10 off the ball. So he is quite weak and rated 2 stars by our excellent South African Assistant Manager, Gordon Ewen, who has 17 JPA and 14 JPP.

[Sussex Hammer]

Well after a good season and a half with the ME, these are the issues I have encountered (most repeated from others).

1. Some super dribbling, although not as much as in previous patches. What has been toned down is the finishing of these dribblers which fortunately for me is poor!

2. Ball physics at times are just plain wrong. These whirly balls and sometimes the ball not slowing down. Best I can compare it with at times is a beach ball.

3. Biggest issue by far is the lack of through balls and off the ball runs by players coupled by their most bizarre decisions at times. Toned down too much I think from previous patch where I was having players like Piquionne run onto a through ball and score every time. Now you see none of this at all even from top passing midfielders and strikers. I play a TM and what is irritating is when my forward wins a flick on and it arrives at another players feet he could and should be clean through, but bizarrely he plays a pass either sideways or backwards and we start playing tippy tappy football again.

I have also had wide men cut inside and the other wide man is in acres of space but rather than an easy through ball he plays it back to the goalkeeper. It really is sideways and backwards football.

4. Poor crossing. I have good wide men and a good TM but it is a rarity that a decent cross comes in and looking at the heat map too many red dots for my liking. The previous patch had this about right IMO. There were some lovely balls played in and strikers headed down. Now we are back to heading over the bar again. I experimented with "often" crossing on both my wide men and full backs on various CF settings and even then the winger and full back even with space to play a cross would just pass it around between each other with the outcome usually being a pass inside to a CM or a punt back to the keeper.

5. Attacking tactics neutralised!! Has anyone chased a game being 2-1 down by going gung ho and scored a late equalizer yet? I designed a real attacking throw the kitchen sink tactic with direct passing and yet this happens. My central TM striker who should be flicking it on is offside every time no matter what settings I put him on. Why does the opposition never drop deep when defending a lead in FM?????? When chasing a game even with easy or normal tackling my players foul count seems to go through the roof. The opposition rather than get a bit nervy pass it around like Brazil. The opposition take for ever taking throw ins, corners or free kicks. I have seen a goalkeeper take 25 seconds to take a goal kick. I thought the rule was 6 seconds?!!! And my team pass it around short when I want them to just launch it forward.

6. Very poor shooting and too many long shots as people have mentioned. Too many flimsy loopy shots into the goalkeepers arms as well especially when a through ball is the easier option!!!

7. The funniest one is bizarre opinions from you Ass Man in game. I have had him comment "We must do something about Aaron Lennons/Nathan Dyer's aerial prowess" Think they are 5'7 and 5'4 respectively!!

It may be the patch, but I must say in FM13 in my opinion only, no matter what directions you give your players and team they always seem to play the same way.

[mentalist123]

OMG, 13.2.2 update with worst long shots prefernece ever.

INF-A C Ronaldo shots 20 long shots in a game.

[Kriss]

OMG, 13.2.2 update with worst long shots prefernece ever.

INF-A C Ronaldo shots 20 long shots in a game.

The ME wasn't touched in 13.2.2, you don't do anybody any favours by imagining changes that weren't made.

[Keyzer Soze]

[video=youtube;Ww_x83nw4VY]

Weather Condition: 14º, dry

[RTHerringbone]

Weather Condition: 14º, dry

Pretty sure that's a known bug - it was also in the Beta so a bit of a surprise that it hasn't been addressed yet, but I guess it doesn't happen in every game.

[Keyzer Soze]

It may be the patch, but I must say in FM13 in my opinion only, no matter what directions you give your players and team they always seem to play the same way.

Good feedback.

I tend to agree with the last sentence, especially regarding wingers and wingbacks.

I play with a 451 formation, with a IF(a) on the left side and a Winger(a) on the right. They play exactly the same way. They both always try to cut inside to try to score.

The same for the wingbacks. I have one set with attack duty while the other is on support duty... and yet both just dribble too much and try to shot too much.

I believe this is related with the last patch, because in the previous one things worked better in this particulary issue.

[Keyzer Soze]

Pretty sure that's a known bug - it was also in the Beta so a bit of a surprise that it hasn't been addressed yet, but I guess it doesn't happen in every game.

No, of course not!

First time i see this, since release day.

[milnerpoint]

Good feedback.

I tend to agree with the last sentence, especially regarding wingers and wingbacks.

I play with a 451 formation, with a IF(a) on the left side and a Winger(a) on the right. They play exactly the same way. They both always try to cut inside to try to score.

The same for the wingbacks. I have one set with attack duty while the other is on support duty... and yet both just dribble too much and try to shot too much.

I believe this is related with the last patch, because in the previous one things worked better in this particulary issue.

Yeah id third that. Wingers def cut inside, or drift inside too often, and its kinda hard to tell the difference between an inside forward and a winger when it happens.

I dont have the issue with my full backs tho, although i dont play wingbacks which probably makes a difference in regard to that.

[CityAndColour]

The ME wasn't touched in 13.2.2, you don't do anybody any favours by imagining changes that weren't made.

Maybe he didn't play 13.2.1?

[RTHerringbone]

No, of course not!

First time i see this, since release day.

Think I saw it twice on the Beta before the day one patch and haven't seen it since.

Regarding your post about roles and duties seeming to behave the same, I agree to an extent, but also think that the examples you give compare types of players with very similar settings.

A wingback on attack versus one on support will behave exactly the same (I believe) if you play an attacking strategy.

An IF and Winger on Attack are also similar - the IF should be more predisposed to join the central striker(s), but the winger is also invited to get involved in the box when on attack duty.

Above all, I think wide players in general are merging into one, as a consequence of the so-called "super dribblers" in the current ME.

[Keyzer Soze]

Yeah id third that. Wingers def cut inside, or drift inside too often, and its kinda hard to tell the difference between an inside forward and a winger when it happens.

I dont have the issue with my full backs tho, although i dont play wingbacks which probably makes a difference in regard to that.

I believe you dont see this with fullbacks, because the creative freedom on them is lower. I think the whole issue is related to the creative freedom. Players with more creative freedom tend too much to go for the goal.

[Keyzer Soze]

Think I saw it twice on the Beta before the day one patch and haven't seen it since.

Regarding your post about roles and duties seeming to behave the same, I agree to an extent, but also think that the examples you give compare types of players with very similar settings.

A wingback on attack versus one on support will behave exactly the same (I believe) if you play an attacking strategy.

An IF and Winger on Attack are also similar - the IF should be more predisposed to join the central striker(s), but the winger is also invited to get involved in the box when on attack duty.

Above all, I think wide players in general are merging into one, as a consequence of the so-called "super dribblers" in the current ME.

I play with a "control" strategy, and i understand, and agree to some extend, with you.

But, players having attack duty shouldn't mean that they go to goal and try to score. It should mean that they will assume an attack mentality and they will try to do their job with that mentality. If i pick a player with a "winger" role, it's because i want a player to hug the touchline, try crosses, and try to stretch the opponent defense by pushing the opponent fullback to the flank. And this is not happening since the last patch, because wingers just cut inside too often. I'm not saying they should never cut inside... but... should not be their first choice.

[Domus Clamantium]

I play with a "control" strategy, and i understand, and agree to some extend, with you.

But, players having attack duty shouldn't mean that they go to goal and try to score. It should mean that they will assume an attack mentality and they will try to do their job with that mentality. If i pick a player with a "winger" role, it's because i want a player to hug the touchline, try crosses, and try to stretch the opponent defense by pushing the opponent fullback to the flank. And this is not happening since the last patch, because wingers just cut inside too often. I'm not saying they should never cut inside... but... should not be their first choice.

They stop cutting inside if you put them on Support duty, as per the role description.

[RTHerringbone]

I play with a "control" strategy, and i understand, and agree to some extend, with you.

But, players having attack duty shouldn't mean that they go to goal and try to score. It should mean that they will assume an attack mentality and they will try to do their job with that mentality. If i pick a player with a "winger" role, it's because i want a player to hug the touchline, try crosses, and try to stretch the opponent defense by pushing the opponent fullback to the flank. And this is not happening since the last patch, because wingers just cut inside too often. I'm not saying they should never cut inside... but... should not be their first choice.

I think we agree, but with a few minor differences!

I'm at work so cannot confirm this, but whilst we have the same view of what a Winger should "do", I'm reasonably sure that by setting them to an Attack Duty, that they will still hug the touchline and hit crosses, but they will also be more inclined to cut in and shoot.

Something you posted earlier about people with high Creative Freedom makes sense - wingers, IFs and wing backs probably all have above average CF, and so may be more susceptible to this "super dribbling" issue. Once that is tuned, hopefully we'll all see better wide play - hopefully not tuned to the point where we suddenly start seeing no dribbling and only through balls......!

[Keyzer Soze]

Yeah,

Creative freedom give the player the "freedom" to deviate from the original plan. So a winger with high CF will play as a winger, and a IF, etc etc

The problem, imo, is like you said the balance. They need to tune so that players with high CF dont deviate so much from the original plan (role).

[Keyzer Soze]

They stop cutting inside if you put them on Support duty, as per the role description.

Ok, but i want them on attack duty. I should be able (and i was before the last patch) to have a winger with attack duty hugging the touchline.

[Sussex Hammer]

Yeah,

Creative freedom give the player the "freedom" to deviate from the original plan. So a winger with high CF will play as a winger, and a IF, etc etc

The problem, imo, is like you said the balance. They need to tune so that players with high CF dont deviate so much from the original plan (role).

Only one game but I tried the first half with my entire team on high CF and the second half on little CF. Didn't see any difference at all TBH, wide men still cutting in. Interesting take on CF in this thread.

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/340826-Rule-of-6-for-tactics

[Domus Clamantium]

Ok, but i want them on attack duty. I should be able (and i was before the last patch) to have a winger with attack duty hugging the touchline.

Yeah but what you want them to do if you read the descriptions is Support. I know Attack sounds like it's got more oomph but the difference between them is Attack will cut inside and do long shots as well as what Support does except without going back to cover the area between full back and wide midfield, Support will hug touchline and cross from byline and do the covering of the defensive midfield flank zone. They don't have to be any good at tackling, marking, heading, anything defensive really, but it definitely helps.

[Kingofpilot]

Yeah but what you want them to do if you read the descriptions is Support. I know Attack sounds like it's got more oomph but the difference between them is Attack will cut inside and do long shots as well as what Support does except without going back to cover the area between full back and wide midfield, Support will hug touchline and cross from byline and do the covering of the defensive midfield flank zone. They don't have to be any good at tackling, marking, heading, anything defensive really, but it definitely helps.

If you set your player to hug touchline than he should hug it no matter what. This is just a workaround to a known issue. But we want this to be solved by the ME team, not by us changing our tactics.

[milnerpoint]

If you set your player to hug touchline than he should hug it no matter what. This is just a workaround to a known issue. But we want this to be solved by the ME team, not by us changing our tactics.

I disagree, he should hug the touchline more often than not, but he should still have instances of cutting inside and drifting to find space.

[Kriss]

If you set your player to hug touchline than he should hug it no matter what. This is just a workaround to a known issue. But we want this to be solved by the ME team, not by us changing our tactics.

No he shouldn't necessarily, just as real players don't follow orders like robots.

[themadsheep2001]

I disagree, he should hug the touchline more often than not, but he should still have instances of cutting inside and drifting to find space.

This. Players are not robots.

[RTHerringbone]

I disagree, he should hug the touchline more often than not, but he should still have instances of cutting inside and drifting to find space.

Agreed, otherwise we have 11 robots rigidly sticking to instructions and doing nothing else.

It's probably a huge challenge of building the ME. We want players to demonstrate the characteristics of the role and duty we assign (within the constraints we apply on Team Instructions), but we also want some individuality.

On a side note. the thread Sussex Hammer linked in #1825 is very interesting.

[milnerpoint]

Its the same for the keepers, people expect that when they put them on short passing that they will never kick the ball forward, its half the reason this place gets bogged down with crap, most of the stuff are not bugs, but perceptions that a bit off.

(before anyone kicks off im not saying there are no bugs or anything like that, you can put your pick axes back for the moment)

[Kingofpilot]

No he shouldn't necessarily, just as real players don't follow orders like robots.

C´mon, it is obviously a flaw in ME. I said it to extreme, of course, sometimes he will cut inside but not as often as in ME.

[Freakiie]

I've resorted to completely reducing CF on almost my entire team. It got rid off 90% off the long shots, my wingers stay out wide and cross and I'm actually seeing through balls/passing through the middle (not always the quality I want it to be, but then again I play in the BSP ). From what I've seen allowing the players even a bit off freedom makes your whole gameplan go completely down the drain. Something there needs to be toned down. I shouldn't have to resort to giving me team 0 CF in order for them to even remotely follow my tactics.

Also I think volleys need to be made way harder. At the moment it seems like volleys are just as easy to hit as normal shots (far post volleys anyone?). Yesterday I had a goal scored against me by a defender randomly hoofing the ball into my penalty area and their attacker hitting it ala

although he had a way tighter angel than van Persie. Of course the occasional fluke can happen, but considering how common volley goals are I'm not sure if I can consider it a fluke.

Defenders in general need to be improved a lot. You still see random clearances for balls they could just let run out of play for a goal kick/throw in, they often don't seem to be aware of where the ball is until a player receives it, they don't know how to position themselves, the dumb 3 defenders charging at one guy, then don't even bother tackling him but just run along side him, player passes to second attacker who suddenly is completely free since all defenders ran off and bam goal. Defenders rarely bother to do something on crosses, even when the ball hits them they still don't react. If you lob a high cross into the penalty area it should not happen so darn often that the attacker simply gets a free header/tap in off the ball. Defenders got more than enough time to watch the ball in the air, but they just seem to randomly run around and not react until the attacker has the ball, by which time it's to late. Also often they just stand by and watch while an attacker stops the ball from going over the sideline, while they just could've moved in and kicked the ball away, but they always wait nicely until the attacker has turned again and is in complete control off the ball. Same often happen with long balls. The defenders back off/switch to natural position while the ball is in the air, attacker can control the ball without any trouble and then the defenders move in (with 3 at once, without actually doing anything of course). Not to mention ball control is way to good (just like volleys really). It just gets silly when your attacker can pick up a random clearance with his head, have the ball under control perfectly (at full speed I may add), rush straight at goal to score and all this is still at BSP lvl.

Got some more stuff, but that has been mentioned often enough already, so I'll leave it at this for now.

[Cleon]

Its the same for the keepers, people expect that when they put them on short passing that they will never kick the ball forward, its half the reason this place gets bogged down with crap, most of the stuff are not bugs, but perceptions that a bit off.

(before anyone kicks off im not saying there are no bugs or anything like that, you can put your pick axes back for the moment)

This is the thing I hate about GD. So many tactical related posts in this forum give out tactical advice that is incorrect.

[RTHerringbone]

C´mon, it is obviously a flaw in ME. I said it to extreme, of course, sometimes he will cut inside but not as often as in ME.

Might not have elicited that response had your initial post been worded differently: "If you set your player to hug touchline than he should hug it no matter what. This is just a workaround to a known issue. But we want this to be solved by the ME team, not by us changing our tactics."

[Guest El Payaso]

Okay, now I've had enough games with this newest update to give some feedback about it.

First of all dribbling... It still seems too static, especially pacey players are able to do impossible dribbles. Instead of slowing down when in possession they sometimes seem to even quicker when they have the ball. Quick player running half of the lenght of the pitch with the ball even though he's been surrounded with 3-4 opposition players seems to happen in every game. And also, where are bad first touches or failed dribbling attemps that you see all the time in real life? Haven't seen any of those in the game.

The second major talking point to me is the time and space that players have in the pitch. You can just stand in the middle of the pitch for 3-4 seconds with the ball without any fear of losing the ball or ruining a quick attack. This is just stupid.

It seems to be far to easy to get in good scoring opportunities even though your team really doesn't do anything creative on the pitch. It's too easy to rely on your quick players to get you the results and chances.

[milnerpoint]

This is the thing I hate about GD. So many tactical related posts in this forum give out tactical advice that is incorrect.

The post above is a perfect example, no one should ever set their entire team to creative freedom 0, and ontop of that there is no logical reason to do it, even with this ME. The insistance that you have to do these things really annoys me. It means that people genuienly looking for help read the worst advice and just end up annoyed, and they then join the group that does nothing but bad mouth the game.

WWFAN's guide should be added to the game booklet next year, and to the online manual so anyone can read it before coming here for "advice".

[Keyzer Soze]

If you set your player to hug touchline than he should hug it no matter what. This is just a workaround to a known issue. But we want this to be solved by the ME team, not by us changing our tactics.

Apart from the "no matter what" part, i agree with this!

The point is, with default instructions wingers cut inside to often! So, if this is happening, then there is a issue with the ME that needs to me fixed. It could be a questions of balanced.

[Kingofpilot]

O.K. For all those quibblers. By hugging touchline no matter what I meant that the players should hug the touchline majority of the time regardless of their mentality - attack, support or defend should not matter. Yes, it is natural to cut inside in some instances but not allmost all the time. I think it is obvious but apparently some people do not want to see the flaws in the game and rather live in their fantasy world where everything is perfect and the game is awesome. ( Yes, Maczidane, Iam speaking to you.)

[milnerpoint]

O.K. For all those quibblers. By hugging touchline no matter what I meant that the players should hug the touchline majority of the time regardless of their mentality - attack, support or defend should not matter. Yes, it is natural to cut inside in some instances but not allmost all the time. I think it is obvious but apparently some people do not want to see the flaws in the game and rather live in their fantasy world where everything is perfect and the game is awesome. ( Yes, Maczidane, Iam speaking to you.)

Stop speaking crap, no one thinks that. Just because you over exageratted and have now had to back track your comments doesnt mean you should attack other forum users.

Saying "no matter what" means there should be no instances of a playing coming off the touchline, which clearly is very wrong. If you had said what you have said in the post i'd quoted, we'd have saved about 10 posts, no one is disupting the wingers cut inside too often.

[Kingofpilot]

Saying "no matter what" means there should be no instances of a playing coming off the touchline, which clearly is very wrong. If you had said what you have said in the post i'd quoted, we'd have saved about 10 posts, no one is disupting the wingers cut inside too often.

If I were such a nit-picker like you, than I could argue, that by setting the player to hug touchline, one could understand that he wont cut inside, ever. It is playing with words which you obviously like. English is not my first lang so I did not realise how polarized my comment about touchline hugging would be, I thought that it would be clear how i meant it.

[RTHerringbone]

If I were such a nit-picker like you, than I could argue, that by setting the player to hug touchline, one could understand that he wont cut inside, ever. It is playing with words which you obviously like. English is not my first lang so I did not realise how polarized my comment about touchline hugging would be, I thought that it would be clear how i meant it.

Handbags ladies, we're straying off topic here.

There's no value in dissecting what you did or didn't mean! You wrote it, some pounced on it, you retracted it, there's no need for subsequent mud-slinging.

The pertinent point was the discussion about whether roles and duties appear to be merging, and what possible elements relating to the ME may or may not contribute to that apparent merging!

[Kingofpilot]

what possible elements relating to the ME may or may not contribute to that apparent merging!

How can anyone outside of the ME coding team tell you what could contribute to it? All i wanted to say, is that mentality should have little, if any influence on how often a player cuts inside instead of hugging touchline, it is common sense. The ME overrides users instructions too brutally which results in frustration and subsequent dumping of the game by many users. The matches are random roller coaster bug fests LOL

[RTHerringbone]

How can anyone outside of the ME coding team tell you what could contribute to it? All i wanted to say, is that mentality should have little, if any influence on how often a player cuts inside instead of hugging touchline, it is common sense. The ME overrides users instructions too brutally which results in frustration and subsequent dumping of the game by many users. The matches are random roller coaster bug fests LOL

Define "mentality" please.

Do you mean how a player responds based on Duty (Auto, Support, Defend, Attack)?

[Kingofpilot]

Define "mentality" please.

Let´s say I set a player to IF/A with cut inside as wide play. Than I override this instruction to hug touchline or normal. He than has rather high attacking mentality( especially if combined with overall team attacking mentality). But he will still cut inside too often. No matter how much I want him to be attack minded he should most of the time follow my instrcution to not cut inside. In my team I have a guy set on Winger/A with hug touchline but he still cuts inside time after time after time. He cuts inside with his weaker foot (which is illogical of course) and shoots wide. Cant do anything about it.

[Freakiie]

The post above is a perfect example, no one should ever set their entire team to creative freedom 0, and ontop of that there is no logical reason to do it, even with this ME. The insistance that you have to do these things really annoys me. It means that people genuienly looking for help read the worst advice and just end up annoyed, and they then join the group that does nothing but bad mouth the game.

WWFAN's guide should be added to the game booklet next year, and to the online manual so anyone can read it before coming here for "advice".

Did I ever said you HAVE to do it? No, so shoo shoo.

I just said what I did and what the result was. Which for me was quite pleasing since it took care off most off my problems and my team is actually doing a lot of the things people here are complaining about are impossible with this ME. So sorry for posting that I did something absurd, we should all stick to what WWFAN says and (just like robots get it hurr hurr) copy what he tells us.

[RTHerringbone]

Let´s say I set a player to IF/A with cut inside as wide play. Than I override this instruction to hug touchline or normal. He than has rather high attacking mentality( especially if combined with overall team attacking mentality). But he will still cut inside too often. No matter how much I want him to be attack minded he should most of the time follow my instrcution to not cut inside. In my team I have a guy set on Winger/A with hug touchline but he still cuts inside time after time after time. He cuts inside with his weaker foot (which is illogical of course) and shoots wide. Cant do anything about it.

OK, so you are a Classic Tactics guy? I use TC so probably am not qualified to talk about sliders etc. as frankly I don't know well enough how everything hangs together with Classic.

Now this is wild speculation on my behalf, but bear with it!

Keyzer Soze suggested that maybe (note maybe) the issue we see with some elements of the ME, especially dominant wide play, is linked to Creative Freedom.

What Creative Freedom setting do your IF(A) and W(A) use - have you overridden them or are they set to the Team Instruction?

In a situation where your player has high CF, it may be the case that a player is more likely to deviate from your instructions - even if you have expressly told them not to.

I'm not saying this is the case, but it may be that in a battle between Creative Freedom and Wide Play settings, that CF overrides Wide Play.

In my case (using Tactics Creator), a simple thing like changing a Duty from Support to Attack may result in a players' CF suddenly breaching a tipping point in the ME and consequently resulting in the overpowered wide play we see.

This is all purely conjecture, so take it or leave it!

[Romanista.]

Well after a good season and a half with the ME, these are the issues I have encountered (most repeated from others).

1. Some super dribbling, although not as much as in previous patches. What has been toned down is the finishing of these dribblers which fortunately for me is poor!

2. Ball physics at times are just plain wrong. These whirly balls and sometimes the ball not slowing down. Best I can compare it with at times is a beach ball.

3. Biggest issue by far is the lack of through balls and off the ball runs by players coupled by their most bizarre decisions at times. Toned down too much I think from previous patch where I was having players like Piquionne run onto a through ball and score every time. Now you see none of this at all even from top passing midfielders and strikers. I play a TM and what is irritating is when my forward wins a flick on and it arrives at another players feet he could and should be clean through, but bizarrely he plays a pass either sideways or backwards and we start playing tippy tappy football again.

I have also had wide men cut inside and the other wide man is in acres of space but rather than an easy through ball he plays it back to the goalkeeper. It really is sideways and backwards football.

4. Poor crossing. I have good wide men and a good TM but it is a rarity that a decent cross comes in and looking at the heat map too many red dots for my liking. The previous patch had this about right IMO. There were some lovely balls played in and strikers headed down. Now we are back to heading over the bar again. I experimented with "often" crossing on both my wide men and full backs on various CF settings and even then the winger and full back even with space to play a cross would just pass it around between each other with the outcome usually being a pass inside to a CM or a punt back to the keeper.

5. Attacking tactics neutralised!! Has anyone chased a game being 2-1 down by going gung ho and scored a late equalizer yet? I designed a real attacking throw the kitchen sink tactic with direct passing and yet this happens. My central TM striker who should be flicking it on is offside every time no matter what settings I put him on. Why does the opposition never drop deep when defending a lead in FM?????? When chasing a game even with easy or normal tackling my players foul count seems to go through the roof. The opposition rather than get a bit nervy pass it around like Brazil. The opposition take for ever taking throw ins, corners or free kicks. I have seen a goalkeeper take 25 seconds to take a goal kick. I thought the rule was 6 seconds?!!! And my team pass it around short when I want them to just launch it forward.

6. Very poor shooting and too many long shots as people have mentioned. Too many flimsy loopy shots into the goalkeepers arms as well especially when a through ball is the easier option!!!

7. The funniest one is bizarre opinions from you Ass Man in game. I have had him comment "We must do something about Aaron Lennons/Nathan Dyer's aerial prowess" Think they are 5'7 and 5'4 respectively!!

It may be the patch, but I must say in FM13 in my opinion only, no matter what directions you give your players and team they always seem to play the same way.

disagree with 4, i play with a target man and he gets some good crosses to his head. my wingers crossing stats are just 13-14 as well. one good thing about this years ME is that you can use a target man again effectively. now i see my GK kicking the ball to the TM and he is often involved in play.

[Kingofpilot]

Yeah Iam aware of creative freedom having potentially big influence on players actions but I do not have much creative freedom with most of my players and those who are selfish are usually reduced to almost minimum. Overall my Creativity is mostly set to somewhere in the middle so this should not happen.And the most important thing is: It did not happen prior to 13.2 so it is a flaw in ME, i had no problems with players running like morons all the time in 13.1.3