Winter Patch Speculation Thread

[andu1]

Yeah... last winter update. This is the main winter update

[kiingallen]

My head is spun. At this point I’m expecting the update to never come 😂

[Caletti]

This lack of communication from the SI is terrible 

[ostkiz]

They should wait until may, to be sure the update is ok.

Why people after 4 months of the purchase want his game finish, we are so exigent.

Calm down lads.

[Domoboy23]

55 minutes ago, andu1 said:

Guys sorry to annoy you but usually when lqa test was updated, the public update was release in the next 1 or 2 days. So i doubt it's today.

What was it like for FM20, 21 and 22? I've tried looking on Steamdb but the history doesn't go back that far

[we88y]

The way that SI communicate these days feels like a direct extension of how Miles deals with questions and social media which is poor at best. I wonder what would happen to the franchise if he was to leave and a new person came in with fresh ideas. Change isn't always bad especially when things feel to have gone stale as they have. Nothing against Miles but its starting to feel apparent that something needs to change because features, releases, patches and communication are all underwhelming.

Edited February 28, 2023 by we88y

[Dreambuilder]

59 minutes ago, andu1 said:

Guys sorry to annoy you but usually when lqa test was updated, the public update was release in the next 1 or 2 days. So i doubt it's today.

That goes well with SI researchers having a deadline tomorrow. I think it is tomorrow now.

[akinozcan]

2 dakika önce, Domoboy23 said:

What was it like for FM20, 21 and 22? I've tried looking on Steamdb but the history doesn't go back that far

If you log-in Steam, you can go as far back as you want. 

[ostkiz]

hace 2 minutos, we88y dijo:

The way that SI communicate these days feels like a direct extension of how Miles deals with questions and social media which is poor at best. I wonder what would happen to the franchise if he was to leave and a new person came in with fresh ideas. Change isn't always bad especially when things feel to have gone stale as they have. Nothing against Miles and Football Manager but its starting to feel apparent that something needs to change because features, releases, patches and communication are all underwhelming.

AYE!

[Domoboy23]

1 minute ago, Dreambuilder said:

That goes well with SI researchers having a deadline tomorrow. I think it is tomorrow now.

I'd of thought if the researchers had a deadline of tomorrow then they'd need additional time to test any changes meaning Thursday at the very earliest? Hoping not thought. It would make more sense if the researchers deadline was for the final DB update which will follow in a cpuple of weeks for remaining windows...

[Dreambuilder]

2 minutes ago, Domoboy23 said:

I'd of thought if the researchers had a deadline of tomorrow then they'd need additional time to test any changes meaning Thursday at the very earliest? Hoping not thought. It would make more sense if the researchers deadline was for the final DB update which will follow in a cpuple of weeks for remaining windows...

Yea I think that the next winterupdate is the first of two, but that their deadline for part 2 coincides with update 1 release for some reason. Just a guess tho! 

[Jay25H]

I wonder whos going to be the first person to write the winter update is out now on this forum

[Fenech]

16 minutes ago, Domoboy23 said:

What was it like for FM20, 21 and 22? I've tried looking on Steamdb but the history doesn't go back that far

In Football Manager 2020, it was released on February 20th at 1.59pm which included the January transfers and there was a further update which included February Transfers on 5th March at 5.57pm but since then they have gone to a 2 update system which includes a main winter update and a last/final winter update:

Football Manager 2021:

Main Winter Update: 22nd February at 9.45pm

Last Winter Update: 15th March at 9.44pm

 

Football Manager 2022:

Main Winter Update: 24th February 3.59pm

Last Winter Update: 24th March 4.01pm

Football Manager 2023:

Main Winter Update: ?

Last Winter Update: ?

This means that if you go by the previous couple of years, the main winter update is already 1 week later than usual.

Edited February 28, 2023 by Fenech

[GOODNAME]

2 minutes ago, Jay25H said:

I wonder whos going to be the first person to write the winter update is out now on this forum

[Domoboy23]

4 minutes ago, Fenech said:

In Football Manager 2020, it was released on February 20th at 1.59pm which included the January transfers and there was a further update which included February Transfers on 5th March at 5.57pm but since then they have gone to a 2 update system which includes a main winter update and a last/final winter update:

Football Manager 2021:

Main Winter Update: 22nd February at 9.45pm

Last Winter Update: 15th March at 9.44pm

 

Football Manager 2022:

Main Winter Update: 24th February 3.59pm

Last Winter Update: 24th March 4.01pm

Football Manager 2023:

Main Winter Update: ?

Last Winter Update: ?

This means that if you go by the previous couple of years, the main winter update is already 1 week later than usual.

Thanks for this - but I was referring to the LQA-test update in steamdb as someone said the fact this was performed today indicates it won't be today.

From looking no LQA test was performed or updated on either 20, 21 or 22 (regardless of on the day or prior) so I'm struggling to see their hypothesis

Edited February 28, 2023 by Domoboy23

[Dreambuilder]

3 minutes ago, GOODNAME said:

You had me there for 0,5 seconds! I could feel the rush of dopamine in my brain!! Atleast something 

[crarfc]

cant wait for it! havent played it in months now so im anticipating the update 

 

id imagine the harrowing events in Turkey and Syria caused a possible delay with the update, but then whos not to say there is no delay - id imagine it will be with us all soon

[Kcinnay]

17 minutes ago, we88y said:

The way that SI communicate these days feels like a direct extension of how Miles deals with questions and social media which is poor at best. I wonder what would happen to the franchise if he was to leave and a new person came in with fresh ideas. Change isn't always bad especially when things feel to have gone stale as they have. Nothing against Miles but its starting to feel apparent that something needs to change because features, releases, patches and communication are all underwhelming.

It think a new gaffer will be necessary in the near future. Miles is quite stubborn and contradictory in his philosophy for the game - it's all about immersion, that's the reason why you can't scroll back during a live game - but you have a game where set pieces are stale, inflexible, where zonal marking doesn't really exist, where pressing is flawed, because it doesn't catch up with modern trends, distinctions like ball-oriented pressing, man-oriented pressing, pressing 1vs1 or creating defensive overloads. Is it immersion when a manager decides wat a DoF can do, when it's the other way around irl? It'd be fun if you'd have to manage a team where you can only suggest transfers, but it's the DoF who decides about that. That that's something that should be part of the negotiations when taking the job. Like in Anderlecht: the reason why Kompany left, was because he wanted to be a manager like in England, where he can decide about transfers etc - but Anderlecht declinded giving him the 'final cut', they wanted him to be a head coach, not a manager as well.

PR-wise (and game knowledgde wise), I guess Nic Madden would be an exquisite choice. He's charming, enthousiastic, cares about the ME, has a great knowledge about it, has a friendly communicative style. Pair him with someone with real life football knowledge, an analyst type who knows about different set-ups for set-pieces, zonal marking, man marking, pressing, build up patterns, stats, a Spielverlagerung or Total Football Analysis type of person, and I think contentwise and PR-wise, FM as a game and brand would be... miles ahead. (Pun intended.)

[Fenech]

3 minutes ago, Kcinnay said:

It think a new gaffer will be necessary in the near future. Miles is quite stubborn and contradictory in his philosophy for the game - it's all about immersion, that's the reason why you can't scroll back during a live game - but you have a game where set pieces are stale, inflexible, where zonal marking doesn't really exist, where pressing is flawed, because it doesn't catch up with modern trends, distinctions like ball-oriented pressing, man-oriented pressing, pressing 1vs1 or creating defensive overloads. Is it immersion when a manager decides wat a DoF can do, when it's the other way around irl? It'd be fun if you'd have to manage a team where you can only suggest transfers, but it's the DoF who decides about that. That that's something that should be part of the negotiations when taking the job. Like in Anderlecht: the reason why Kompany left, was because he wanted to be a manager like in England, where he can decide about transfers etc - but Anderlecht declinded giving him the 'final cut', they wanted him to be a head coach, not a manager as well.

PR-wise (and game knowledgde wise), I guess Nic Madden would be an exquisite choice. He's charming, enthousiastic, cares about the ME, has a great knowledge about it, has a friendly communicative style. Pair him with someone with real life football knowledge, an analyst type who knows about different set-ups for set-pieces, zonal marking, man marking, pressing, build up patterns, stats, a Spielverlagerung or Total Football Analysis type of person, and I think contentwise and PR-wise, FM as a game and brand would be... miles ahead. (Pun intended.)

You can set your DOF to decide on the transfers and then besides the players on your shortlist, you can declare a player as a top target and instruct the dof that you would like to sign this or that player but the dof would handle everything and make the decision and even bring his own targets in and you can do that for the first team, u21's, u18s if you wanted, so you can kind of play the game where the dof decides, or did you mean something else?

[Cizzu]

Winter update? or Spring update ? 

[Kcinnay]

2 minutes ago, Fenech said:

You can set your DOF to decide on the transfers and then besides the players on your shortlist, you can declare a player as a top target and instruct the dof that you would like to sign this or that player but the dof would handle everything and make the decision and even bring his own targets in and you can do that for the first team, u21's, u18s if you wanted, so you can kind of play the game where the dof decides, or did you mean something else?

That's my point. You CAN decide to play the game like that, but it shouldn't be an option, but a given, if you're all about immersion. It feels weird to be able to sack people who're closer to the board than you, the manager.

[akinozcan]

3 dakika önce, Cizzu said:

Winter update? or Spring update ? 

Wintring Update

[priority76]

19 hours ago, MasterFolke said:

Like 4 months after the release and still No decent patch…

Why is your asinine comment getting so many likes? Absolute state of the people that frequent these forums.

[nico_france]

 

[GOODNAME]

4 minutes ago, nico_france said:

 

[Fenech]

11 minutes ago, Kcinnay said:

That's my point. You CAN decide to play the game like that, but it shouldn't be an option, but a given, if you're all about immersion. It feels weird to be able to sack people who're closer to the board than you, the manager.

I get your point although I believe different clubs have different set ups so in some clubs the Manager still has complete control so shouldn't that kind of a change be club specific depending on the particular model they have in place. If you go the other way and just make it so the DOF decides at every club then based on your point, that wouldn't be correct either. I am not entirely sure if a DOF is always closer to the board than the manager either, I would have expected a more equal footing with everyone in the recruitment team having a say and then all coming to a decision together.... Have you made any of these suggestions (including the set-piece one) on the Suggestion Page on this forum?

Also I don't think Miles is going anywhere any time soon. It's his decision and I don't think he has any intention of handing over control to anyone else. I am also certain that Miles talks to a lot of different specialists every day on ways to improve all aspects of the game. Despite your very valid points, I would also remind that not only is the game exceptional value for money, it is also miles ahead of any of it's competition and has been for many many years. 

[forameuss]

14 minutes ago, priority76 said:

Why is your asinine comment getting so many likes? Absolute state of the people that frequent these forums.

Because they've decided on here that they can't have a negative counterpoint, so you can say something absolutely mental, and it'll appear as popular if there's enough people similarly mental as you.  Would be better off having no way to upvote posts if there isn't a downvote to balance it out.

[Eoin Maguire]

11 minutes ago, Fenech said:

I get your point although I believe different clubs have different set ups so in some clubs the Manager still has complete control so shouldn't that kind of a change be club specific depending on the particular model they have in place. If you go the other way and just make it so the DOF decides at every club then based on your point, that wouldn't be correct either. I am not entirely sure if a DOF is always closer to the board than the manager either, I would have expected a more equal footing with everyone in the recruitment team having a say and then all coming to a decision together.... Have you made any of these suggestions (including the set-piece one) on the Suggestion Page on this forum?

Also I don't think Miles is going anywhere any time soon. It's his decision and I don't think he has any intention of handing over control to anyone else. I am also certain that Miles talks to a lot of different specialists every day on ways to improve all aspects of the game. Despite your very valid points, I would also remind that not only is the game exceptional value for money, it is also miles ahead of any of it's competition and has been for many many years. 

I'm sorry but that last bit of this post. What competition exactly? There is no competition, that's the reason why SI can get away with such lacklustre development across the board and people will still buy the game regardless. There is only one management simulation that's not a mobile/tablet version thats up to any sort of standard rn. 

[antiutopie]

What I don't get is why the Patch for the game, and the Transfer-Update, aren't planned as independent updates to begin with. There seems to be no advantage to doing it in one update, and you'll always end up with one of the two holding up the other. It's not like gamers aren't used to multiple updates in relatively short time either, it genuinely puzzles me why it's done this way. 

[Kcinnay]

8 minutes ago, Fenech said:

I get your point although I believe different clubs have different set ups so in some clubs the Manager still has complete control so shouldn't that kind of a change be club specific depending on the particular model they have in place. If you go the other way and just make it so the DOF decides at every club then based on your point, that wouldn't be correct either. I am not entirely sure if a DOF is always closer to the board than the manager either, I would have expected a more equal footing with everyone in the recruitment team having a say and then all coming to a decision together.... Have you made any of these suggestions (including the set-piece one) on the Suggestion Page on this forum?

Also I don't think Miles is going anywhere any time soon. It's his decision and I don't think he has any intention of handing over control to anyone else. I am also certain that Miles talks to a lot of different specialists every day on ways to improve all aspects of the game. Despite your very valid points, I would also remind that not only is the game exceptional value for money, it is also miles ahead of any of it's competition and has been for many many years. 

Sure, it should be club dependant. It's not a black-white-situation. There are multiple options that could be added: frowns from the fans and the bord when Ajax or Barcelona don't play in a 4-3-3-formation, for example. There is/used to be a tab in the editor where the preferred formation of a certain club/nation was stated, but nothing has ever been done with that.

No, I haven't, because I didn't have the energy, that's personal. Those are my first posts in a long time.

The reminder wasn't something I had forgotten about: I play FM a lot - a lot! - and even though there are flaws, I wouldn't diss it as unplayable - it's absolutely exceptional value for money. But the lack of good competition and good communication is something that denies FM the progress that's needed, and I don't know whether MJ is the one who'll be able to change things around. That doesn't deny everything he's done before, absolutely not, it's a bit like Klopp at Liverpool: exceptional manager, great match between him and the club, but his philosophy has a duration, and in football, after some time, either the manager has to go or the players. In a gaming context, the last thing would be a disaster, so I guess definite changes are primordial, because it's clear that frustration is growing year after year, even when the game is at its best. The permanent overhype of lacklustre features, the dismissal for changes about things that very much need a change for a long time (international management, anyone?) and are very well documented by multiple people, the lack of communication about the future of FM, the direction, somehow, I don't know, a token of gratitude for a very loyal fanbase, who care about this game a lot (or a tad too much)... It seems like the only numbers that are important are the sales figures, and there are a lot of people who buy this game every year, even when the only overhyped feature would be, I don't know, the option for your 3D avatar to wear branded sneakers. They can't keep on taking that for granted, because there'll be an end to that. 

[Fenech]

2 minutes ago, Eoin Maguire said:

I'm sorry but that last bit of this post. What competition exactly? There is no competition, that's the reason why SI can get away with such lacklustre development across the board and people will still buy the game regardless. There is only one management simulation that's not a mobile/tablet version thats up to any sort of standard rn. 

Precisely there is no competition. So it's clearly in a league of it's own, do you think Apple would have reached the level it has without the very high levels of competition it had to keep pushing it to new heights like IBM, Google, Microsoft, Amazon and Samsung e.g. So yes but is that SI's fault that the game has no competition?

[DarJ]

1 hour ago, Dreambuilder said:

The head researcher of Sweden @pelleantonsson just said on twitter that they have a deadline tomorrow:

"Tomorrow is the last day I can get in transitions for the last winter update."

Note that he said last winter update. 

 

 

assuming thy will release 2 updates it has to be for the final update

[Fenech]

3 minutes ago, Kcinnay said:

Sure, it should be club dependant. It's not a black-white-situation. There are multiple options that could be added: frowns from the fans and the bord when Ajax or Barcelona don't play in a 4-3-3-formation, for example. There is/used to be a tab in the editor where the preferred formation of a certain club/nation was stated, but nothing has ever been done with that.

No, I haven't, because I didn't have the energy, that's personal. Those are my first posts in a long time.

The reminder wasn't something I had forgotten about: I play FM a lot - a lot! - and even though there are flaws, I wouldn't diss it as unplayable - it's absolutely exceptional value for money. But the lack of good competition and good communication is something that denies FM the progress that's needed, and I don't know whether MJ is the one who'll be able to change things around. That doesn't deny everything he's done before, absolutely not, it's a bit like Klopp at Liverpool: exceptional manager, great match between him and the club, but his philosophy has a duration, and in football, after some time, either the manager has to go or the players. In a gaming context, the last thing would be a disaster, so I guess definite changes are primordial, because it's clear that frustration is growing year after year, even when the game is at its best. The permanent overhype of lacklustre features, the dismissal for changes about things that very much need a change for a long time (international management, anyone?) and are very well documented by multiple people, the lack of communication about the future of FM, the direction, somehow, I don't know, a token of gratitude for a very loyal fanbase, who care about this game a lot (or a tad too much)... It seems like the only numbers that are important are the sales figures, and there are a lot of people who buy this game every year, even when the only overhyped feature would be, I don't know, the option for your 3D avatar to wear branded sneakers. They can't keep on taking that for granted, because there'll be an end to that. 

Great points, they are very valid suggestions, which is why I asked if you had put them in the suggestion area of this forum. Interestingly it is the people who complain about the game the most who are the first ones to buy it when it is released!

[Eoin Maguire]

3 minutes ago, Fenech said:

Precisely there is no competition. So it's clearly in a league of it's own, do you think Apple would have reached the level it has without the very high levels of competition it had to keep pushing it to new heights like IBM, Google, Microsoft, Amazon and Samsung e.g. So yes but is that SI's fault that the game has no competition?

No its not SIs fault that they have no competition, but it's certainly their fault that FM23 is in the state its in. If they really cared as much as they say they do about the community they would put more effort into updating the game more, not release the FULL game as a BETA for a month, would communicate alot more with the community, and would have a better plan for development and not give us underwhelming half done features that dont even work properly every year. Having no competition is not an excuse if you really take yourselves seriously. SI aren't some indie studio, they are a triple A sized developer. 

 

[Fenech]

8 minutes ago, DarJ said:

assuming thy will release 2 updates it has to be for the final update

Correct, the main winter update which should be out tomorrow, is already a week later than the previous few years and then later on in March, you would expect the final update as has been the case in the previous 2 instalments of the game.

[alian62]

6 minutes ago, Eoin Maguire said:

No its not SIs fault that they have no competition, but it's certainly their fault that FM23 is in the state its in. If they really cared as much as they say they do about the community they would put more effort into updating the game more, not release the FULL game as a BETA for a month, would communicate alot more with the community, and would have a better plan for development and not give us underwhelming half done features that dont even work properly every year. Having no competition is not an excuse if you really take yourselves seriously. SI aren't some indie studio, they are a triple A sized developer. 

 

The issue is that as long as people keep buying it and they make a profit they are winning 

[CFuller]

44 minutes ago, priority76 said:

Why is your asinine comment getting so many likes? Absolute state of the people that frequent these forums.

Suggesting that a video game developer should lose their job just because a video game doesn't meet your expectations is just as crass, in my opinion.

And yet people wonder why SI don't communicate more openly...

[Kcinnay]

16 minutes ago, Fenech said:

Great points, they are very valid suggestions, which is why I asked if you had put them in the suggestion area of this forum. Interestingly it is the people who complain about the game the most who are the first ones to buy it when it is released!

I've responded to that why I haven't been able to do that recently.

[greenz81]

19 minutes ago, antiutopie said:

What I don't get is why the Patch for the game, and the Transfer-Update, aren't planned as independent updates to begin with. There seems to be no advantage to doing it in one update, and you'll always end up with one of the two holding up the other. It's not like gamers aren't used to multiple updates in relatively short time either, it genuinely puzzles me why it's done this way. 

I think its obvious... the coding is all over the place. The way they describe the match engine is at being so delicate, that one change could affect lot of other things. I suspect over the years there's new code on top of old code and noone is sure what is good and what is bad. People come and go in companies. Work get sub-contracted out. My suspicions are this is what is happening and this is why the game is so buggy after all these years (not just match engine, but same UI issues and same in-game bugs creeping up again). I've said it previously, they should just skip next years release and focus purely on tidying up everything that needs to be sorted. I've never known a game to patch so sparsley and not give any information to the end user

[Eoin Maguire]

8 minutes ago, alian62 said:

The issue is that as long as people keep buying it and they make a profit they are winning 

Yeah true, its a sad reality. 

[Domoboy23]

Can we all get back on topic please and refreshing steamdb every 20 seconds and updating each other?

 

Thanks 

[Kcinnay]

4 minutes ago, CFuller said:

Suggesting that a video game developer should lose their job just because a video game doesn't meet your expectations is just as crass, in my opinion.

And yet people wonder why SI don't communicate more openly...

I'm not saying he SHOULD lose his job, I'm not saying the video game doesn't provide me joy. I think I was quite nuanced, not offensive. I'm not the one who posts about how terrible FM is, because it isn't, this edition is the best ever. But... there's much room for improvement in all aspects of the game, and there's even a decrease in some aspects (the comparisons with the graphics of the older FM's for example). There'll always be people who moan, you can't do well for everyone, but having moderate critique on SI, FM, MJ, whatever, isn't a reason for not communicating as an organisation, in my opinion. I remember the honest post of Neil Brock when the game was released, which was applauded. More things like that, more transparancy, would be good for everyone. And the suggestion that fresh input is needed... What's wrong with that?

[Fenech]

24 minutes ago, Eoin Maguire said:

No its not SIs fault that they have no competition, but it's certainly their fault that FM23 is in the state its in. If they really cared as much as they say they do about the community they would put more effort into updating the game more, not release the FULL game as a BETA for a month, would communicate alot more with the community, and would have a better plan for development and not give us underwhelming half done features that dont even work properly every year. Having no competition is not an excuse if you really take yourselves seriously. SI aren't some indie studio, they are a triple A sized developer. 

 

Isn't it still in a better state than anything else on the market though if there is no competition?

How often would you say they need to update the game for it to be to your satisfaction? They update the game but they just don't release all the updates at once. they bundle the updates up and then release an update with a lot more fixes some of which are not included in the list of updates they publish when the update patches are released. Rather than constantly update with lots of smaller updates as they go along. They also go through an ALPHA Stage before the BETA, The Alpha stage is given to professional footballs and other 'selected' players to test the game and then they can release further updates before the BETA, every single game has a BETA Stage but the problem is that some of the updates and fixes can only be found once the full beta game is released so they have to do it that way to find these bugs, then they rely on the community to play the game and find the bugs etc and report them on this forum so that they can work on fixes BEFORE the Full Game is released and then they are constantly relying on the community to find any further bugs that remain and release updates periodically throughout the year culminating in the final winter update so in fact the development never stops and when the final update is released, development starts immediately on the next years game. A lot of features are only found once you play the game. I agree. Some features are good and some features are not so good but it's a matter of opinion, some features you may like and some i may like but we might disagree on that. The fact is that they are always creating new features based on the communities input plus input from within and around the game and professionals and staff from the world of football and where a feature may be need improving, that is something they can work on and improve on in future editions, so damn right it is up to this community to help and guide them too, are they perfect? no one is perfect but I am absolutely confident that a lot goes on behind the scenes and SI and Miles do everything they can to make the game the best possible version it can be whilst keeping in line with the limitations (with the coding e.g.) and what works and their own unique vision for the way they want to develop their game. But the community does have an open say and so the question is also what would you do differently because they would love to hear your suggestions and the suggestions of everyone in the community.

Edited February 28, 2023 by Fenech

[Cobblers]

3 minutes ago, greenz81 said:

I think its obvious... the coding is all over the place. The way they describe the match engine is at being so delicate, that one change could affect lot of other things. I suspect over the years there's new code on top of old code and noone is sure what is good and what is bad. People come and go in companies. Work get sub-contracted out. My suspicions are this is what is happening and this is why the game is so buggy after all these years (not just match engine, but same UI issues and same in-game bugs creeping up again). I've said it previously, they should just skip next years release and focus purely on tidying up everything that needs to be sorted. I've never known a game to patch so sparsley and not give any information to the end user

I still remember the old days whereby you would get a completely refreshed game every 5-10 years or so. Then they would build upon it again.

Never needed to skip a year to get this done.

Appreciate many are impatient about the release of the new update; just try and have some more patience. I'd rather an update done correctly.

[Andrew Haines]

For anyone complaining about lack of communication. Going back 10 years ago, SI used to give very open updates on what was happening and when they expect the patch to be out. If something arose (newly identified bug etc) and they didn't achieve what they said they said they expected this forum because incredibly toxic and full of vitriol, like they had signed that date in blood or something. So now they stick to a policy of no updates until it is ready. Can't blame them.

[Cobblers]

Just now, Andrew Haines said:

For anyone complaining about lack of communication. Going back 10 years ago, SI used to give very open updates on what was happening and when they expect the patch to be out. If something arose (newly identified bug etc) and they didn't achieve what they said they said they expected this forum because incredibly toxic and full of vitriol, like they had signed that date in blood or something. So now they stick to a policy of no updates until it is ready. Can't blame them.

Essentially, damned if you do, damned if you don't. So why bother. 

That said, "winter" update is in the description, so I guess it should be reworded and described as simply "Update 23.2......" and leave it at that.

[Maviarab]

7 minutes ago, Fenech said:

Isn't it still in a better state than anything else on the market though if there is no competition?

How often would you say they need to update the game for it to be to your satisfaction? They update the game but they just don't release all the updates at once. they bundle the updates up and then release an update with a lot more fixes some of which are not included in the list of updates they publish when the update patches are released. Rather than constantly update with lots of smaller updates as they go along. They also go through an ALPHA Stage before the BETA, The Alpha stage is given to professional footballs and other 'selected' players to test the game and then they can release further updates before the BETA, every single game has a BETA Stage but the problem is that some of the updates and fixes can only be found once the full beta game is released so they have to do it that way to find these bugs, then they rely on the community to play the game and find the bugs etc and report them on this forum so that they can work on fixes BEFORE the Full Game is released and then they are constantly relying on the community to find any further bugs that remain and release updates periodically throughout the year culminating in the final winter update so in fact the development never stops and when the final update is released, development starts immediately on the next years game. A lot of features are only found once you play the game. I agree. Some features are good and some features are not so good but it's a matter of opinion, some features you may like and some i may like but we might disagree on that. The fact is that they are always creating new features based on the communities input plus input from within and around the game and professionals and staff from the world of football and where a feature may be need improving, that is something they can work on and improve on in future editions, so damn right it is up to this community to help and guide them too, are they perfect? no one is perfect but I am absolutely confident that a lot goes on behind the scenes and they SI and Miles do everything they can to make the game the best possible version it can be whilst keeping in line with the limitations (with the coding e.g.) and what works and their own unique vision for the way they want to develop their game. But the community does have an open say and so the question is also what would you do differently because they would love to hear your suggestions and the suggestions of everyone in the community.

There was a time, many moons ago, it's...a distant fog in the memory, game devs played their game, that was the beta.  it came out...we all rejoiced, rushed to the shop, there was no updates, fixes...patches, you bought *gasp/shock/hporror* a full game...working...no need for the player base to test it for you...

Maybe I just dreamed those days....so long ago now....I'm old....

[Fenech]

5 minutes ago, Maviarab said:

There was a time, many moons ago, it's...a distant fog in the memory, game devs played their game, that was the beta.  it came out...we all rejoiced, rushed to the shop, there was no updates, fixes...patches, you bought *gasp/shock/hporror* a full game...working...no need for the player base to test it for you...

Maybe I just dreamed those days....so long ago now....I'm old....

I remember that too, I just don't think FM is that kind of game, it needs it's player base, it's the kind of game that just never ends, it constantly needs developing day after day, from month to month and from year to year. It is so in-depth that they employ helpers from all around the world to research and help out and the expectation that it can just come out and be perfect and not need updating just isn't realistic in this particular case. It's a great idea and wouldn't it be amazing! but some games are just not built that way.

[david7smith]

How's the updates on steam dB looking? Trying to get back to the name of the actual topic 🤣🤣

[Caletti]

1 minute ago, david7smith said:

How's the updates on steam dB looking? Trying to get back to the name of the actual topic 🤣🤣

No updates. I think it will not be today.