95% of Newgens end up working in Tesco!

One part of the FM series that could really be fleshed out is the whole Newgen allocation system.

Now i don't know about you, but one of the most exciting times of any FM season is when your Assistant Manger informs you of the new batch of youth players that have been allocated to your team. You eagerly click on your under-19's screen only to find that future world beaters are 5 "half-star potential" left backs and a sweeper named 'Grant Grant'. Oh dear Terminate Contract x 6...

Now what if we could give our Ass Man / Youth Coach / Scout some guidance on what kids we'd like to sign? For example, You could be given a choice at the start of the season (a bit like the feeder club screen) whereby you choose a position / footedness of a player your coaches / scouts really need to look out for. "I would like you to try and find me a left-footed winger please. The next Ryan Giggs if poss!". Then this is set for the season.

FAST FORWARD 12 MONTHS

You're next Newgen batch is ready and your Ass Man has told you he's had success in finding what you wanted. a left-footed winger! But instead of them just appearing in your Under 19's (Grant Grant again) you get the choice of upto 6 young players out of 30 or so to bring through...

"Right i'll have him (left winger 3 stars)..........ooh he looks decent, could make him a strong target man(striker 2 stars great strength stats)..........hmmmmmmmm...the rest of you can go sign on!" The other 28+ are never seen again...

Now this way, not only would your database not be clogged with absolutely rubbish newgens (I mean would Man Utd really bring a defender through with 4 tackling? No!) but it would give you more input into how your future team will pan out.

Also a "trials" option should be available at the start of the season. What i mean by this is your club should be able to go to an area of the UK or another country and advertise that you are looking for young talented players (Soccer Idol anyone?). For example, Preseason, you decide to try and find the next Jari Litmaanan and send one of your scout/coaches to go to Finland and set up a trials session and report back their findings. January arrives and your scout says he's found 3 potential Finnish stars and they will be joining your youth academy in the near future. June arrives and it's time to choose which newgens make it through to your under 19's..."Oooh who's this Jari Jumpamileupintheair? Finnish? He looks a world beater, Well done son you've got a youth contract. The rest i'll see you later"

Now not only could this help influence shirt sales in countries (eg Park @ United), Scouting Knowledge and home sickness (YOu got a finnish star but he needs a finnish colleague, bring two through) but it could help if you manage a poor international team. You could manage Malta and decide to set up trials in Malta to bring through promising future internationals that you could then call up to your squad!

I may be wishing up something that is impossible to program but if this could be done, it would be a massive step forward on the Newgen front and i'd be one step closer to conquering the world with The Netherland Antilles.

Thanks for reading and i hope you get what i've been prattling on about

I agree with this about 95% percent. Who needs all these rubbish players that will never see the first team during your reign. But only thing against it is teams need to fill u-18 squads and not every member of the academy is going to be the next Tevez or Messi. Even the case I still believe you should have some say in selection of academy graduates

I always feel mean when I have my imaginary line up and say "If your name is read out, leave that Chelsea kit by the door and good bye"

Would be better if I could specifically scout regions for youth, like if I wanted to scout the North West for Strikers, Midlands for Midfielders and Scotland for Defenders

Most top clubs bring through at least a full XI every year. Managers don't just say "I need a left winger".

You're getting the best 10-15 of the 30 u16s your clubs potentially has. It saves a heck of a lot of time to just have the best few dumped in your team for you rather than selecting them manually.

Remember Lee Crooks at Man City (and other Northern English clubs)?? He's off to Afghan soon on an Op Herrick.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_Crooks

I love the fact that you get a good couple of bad players as it makes it a whole lot sweeter when you eventually get a gem of a player to come up. There would be no fun if you got a heap of youngsters with unlimited potential

I would like the ability to see my "regens" from an early age, say about 10-12 and work on improving their stats from there.

In my opinion a player around that age should not even have a fixed position and you could mold him into whatever his strengths are at that time.

As an example it would be great to see a regen with 5 star potential (and is an attacking player) and see he is extreemly quick, great dribbling and technique but is a poor passer and finisher. You could work on either his finishing or passing and then possibly making him a striker or a winger.

This is one part of the game that would add to the manager feeling more connected to his team (and add a lot of re-playability for myself anyway).

Because this isn't how things work in real life

You think Wenger can just tell his U18 manager he would like the next wilshere and have him ready for preseason please?

No

The assumption is that the best players from the lower ages get promoted to the U18 squad (same as in real life), if you look at the success rate of players coming through the U18's to play for the first team regularly at any club you'll see the stats are about right in game

Just because they're useless to your team, other teams perhaps of a lower quality to yours will be signing these players. And like mlindqui43 said, without these players there wouldn't be any U-18 squads as there wouldn't be enough players in the database to fill the teams up.

However, I do think that it's a good idea to have an input on what youth players you want your coaches/ scouts to find. I think the idea would work if 90% of the time the coach/ scout couldn't find the player you were looking for, or they do find the kind of player but just isn't good enough for your team.

Cheers.

Most top clubs bring through at least a full XI every year. Managers don't just say "I need a left winger".

You're getting the best 10-15 of the 30 u16s your clubs potentially has. It saves a heck of a lot of time to just have the best few dumped in your team for you rather than selecting them manually.

Fair point but...

You don't think Fergie will be trying his best to seal a deal with the future replacement to Ryan Giggs? Obviously i haven't got any proof but i bet you his scouts are looking at every kid's football club in the UK, maybe Europe to find a replacement for him more than looking for the next Wayne Rooney. Also, i believe that if you are say, "top heavy" with defenders in your youth team, you should be able to focus more on bringing MF's and FW's through instead of getting one of each postiion.

Great to see a debate other than *cough*.....Patch 11.3....

Also, i don't mean every player will be a wonderkid (see my original post, 2 star striker). I mean i'd rather spend my time on bringing half-decent players through. At the top clubs, the players have been cut a dozen times before they reach 15, so a striker even at this age should have decent attacking stats.

Ezequiel, Love your idea of young newgens not having fixed positions. As with real life, quite a lot of young players switch positions completely. I believe Shearer was a Goalkeeper at an early age?

not every team brings through Messi's every year, there has to be a few Luke Chadwicks too.

I think the point about looking for the next Ryan Giggs etc. to bring through would more be down to your scouts to search far and wide for the best 15/16 year olds from other clubs, who you can then attempt to sign. Any player that comes through the youth system at a club is a bonus. I don't think a manager would put emphasis on just one position. If the player is there and good enough, he'll come through anyway. Besides which, how many managers would hinge their hopes on a 15/16 year old? You would have to assume they would be pretty untouchable at the club to know they will still be there 5 years on; Ferguson is a good example but most managers don't fit into this category.

I've always felt managers have a little too much control in FM anyway. If you had total control over the clubs youth team it would be assuming you have Ferguson/Wenger status, which has to be earned over a number of years. I would prefer it if you got more control over the club over time and success in that time, but this is not really how the game has gone. Influence from "above" is minimal, Director of Football's do not exist and so on. I think an established manager at a club should have more influence over the youth setup, for sure; like at Barcelona everyone form the senior players to the youth teams are schooled in the same philosophy. But then it can't just be as easy as being able to take over a club, walk in and tell the whole youth system how it should work and how the coaches should coach. (You can already tell your Reserves and U18's to use your tactics, but this is a rather lame feature as it's not flexible.)

Would be nice if we could organise little summer training trials just like Chelsea did in the summer for Asian youth

haven't Arsenal just signed another 16 year old kid from Barca ala Fabregas?

You can scout other youngsters and bring them to your U18's if you want.

I don't like that we don't get a full eleven regens every season, I want my U18 squad to be able to field a full team, bench and have a few weaker players for cover rather than having to rely on greyed out players. We end up with 20 centre-backs and no strikers, or 10 strikers and no goalies, and so on, it's foolish to think that in RL clubs will not make sure they have at least one player for each position and cover...

I also keep them all until their youth deal expires, no matter how poor they are. They get the best coaching I can offer, the best facilities I can offer, the best tutoring I can offer and the best medical support I can offer. If they show promise, they get a deal. If they show potential to be saleable, they get a deal.

I probably release maybe 4 or 5 players a year from my youth setup when I'm at a top club, more if I'm in the lower reaches but then the good kids are usually in my first team by then

Great post I agree 100% with OP. The Grant Grant bit made me chuckle.

I don't like that we don't get a full eleven regens every season, I want my U18 squad to be able to field a full team, bench and have a few weaker players for cover rather than having to rely on greyed out players. We end up with 20 centre-backs and no strikers, or 10 strikers and no goalies, and so on, it's foolish to think that in RL clubs will not make sure they have at least one player for each position and cover...

It's worth remembering that most players have 2-3 seasons of U-18 ahead of them, so you don't necessarily need 11 players a year to field a full team. Of course, if you send them all packing at 17 when they can turn professional, you won't have as many players.

You'd hope that there might be a bit of foresight though - if you don't have any strikers in the U-18, you'd expect the best strikers to be promoted, even if they're rubbish. You'd assume that you'd promote the best players overall + the best players in the positions you are lacking each year. So your strikers might be duff, but at least you'll have a couple, and you should always have a goalie (preferably 2).

One part of the FM series that could really be fleshed out is the whole Newgen allocation system.

Now i don't know about you, but one of the most exciting times of any FM season is when your Assistant Manger informs you of the new batch of youth players that have been allocated to your team. You eagerly click on your under-19's screen only to find that future world beaters are 5 "half-star potential" left backs and a sweeper named 'Grant Grant'. Oh dear Terminate Contract x 6...

Now what if we could give our Ass Man / Youth Coach / Scout some guidance on what kids we'd like to sign? For example, You could be given a choice at the start of the season (a bit like the feeder club screen) whereby you choose a position / footedness of a player your coaches / scouts really need to look out for. "I would like you to try and find me a left-footed winger please. The next Ryan Giggs if poss!". Then this is set for the season.

FAST FORWARD 12 MONTHS

You're next Newgen batch is ready and your Ass Man has told you he's had success in finding what you wanted. a left-footed winger! But instead of them just appearing in your Under 19's (Grant Grant again) you get the choice of upto 6 young players out of 30 or so to bring through...

"Right i'll have him (left winger 3 stars)..........ooh he looks decent, could make him a strong target man(striker 2 stars great strength stats)..........hmmmmmmmm...the rest of you can go sign on!" The other 28+ are never seen again...

Now this way, not only would your database not be clogged with absolutely rubbish newgens (I mean would Man Utd really bring a defender through with 4 tackling? No!) but it would give you more input into how your future team will pan out.

Also a "trials" option should be available at the start of the season. What i mean by this is your club should be able to go to an area of the UK or another country and advertise that you are looking for young talented players (Soccer Idol anyone?). For example, Preseason, you decide to try and find the next Jari Litmaanan and send one of your scout/coaches to go to Finland and set up a trials session and report back their findings. January arrives and your scout says he's found 3 potential Finnish stars and they will be joining your youth academy in the near future. June arrives and it's time to choose which newgens make it through to your under 19's..."Oooh who's this Jari Jumpamileupintheair? Finnish? He looks a world beater, Well done son you've got a youth contract. The rest i'll see you later"

Now not only could this help influence shirt sales in countries (eg Park @ United), Scouting Knowledge and home sickness (YOu got a finnish star but he needs a finnish colleague, bring two through) but it could help if you manage a poor international team. You could manage Malta and decide to set up trials in Malta to bring through promising future internationals that you could then call up to your squad!

I may be wishing up something that is impossible to program but if this could be done, it would be a massive step forward on the Newgen front and i'd be one step closer to conquering the world with The Netherland Antilles.

Thanks for reading and i hope you get what i've been prattling on about

Do you have any idea how many youth players are released from every single clubs youth sides each year? Its an unbelievably high percentage of players who have a professional contract at 16 that fail to make it anywhere in the professional game.

I agree with you but I think that we should be able to sign more than 6 of them if we want. There should be a limit that you can have a maximum of maybe 15-20 players under youth contract. Then around 1-2 days before it's time to choose the new batch of regens you should get a message from you assistant manager saying something like: Mr. Manager we have 19 U-19 players today and the board only allow us to have 20 so we will only be able to sign one new player youth player tomorrow unless you terminate the contracts for a few of our existing players. If we have only 5 players with u-19 contracts we will be able to sign up to 15 new players that day instead.

I also agree Lazaru5 that most players are not the new Messi or Bebe but that could easily be fixed too. The reports we get from our assistant and scouts when it's time to choose should be exaggerated. The next Messi should of course be a five star and easy recognized as a future star but most players in the list to choose from should be 3 or 4 star players and we would have to look at the players strengths and what the scout may say about hidden attributes to decide who may be formed into a future star. A PA110 player could have the same stars that a PA155 player has in the list.

I'm all in to let us scout other countries for newgens too. That's something I’ve missed since I started to play FM half a decade ago. I usually buy a very international team anyway and it would be good do that from youth level too.

The foreign players that are brought up should have a higher CA than domestic players when they arrive but no advantages in PA though. You wouldn't consider a foreign player with a similar CA who is already living in your city.

There should also be some sort of extra fee we would have to pay for foreign players with youth contracts. Youth players have a low wage but if a club brings a young player from another country they surely has to pay for that players living. It's not cheap to bring foreign youths to your club. In FM there's no difference in domestic and foreign but in IRL it's only the richest clubs that has the money.

Great post I agree 100% with OP. The Grant Grant bit made me chuckle.

yes grant grant did it for me too:D

a good post

While the OP makes some good points, I'm not entirely sure the suggestion as a whole is very realistic - either in terms of how it happens in real life, or in terms of being manageable in-game.

The one thing I think could be quite good would be if you could specify a specific position you had a preference for and get more players of that position, but not necessarily better ones. If, for example, you play a very narrow formation with no wingers, it'd be nice to specify that you don't want as many out-and-out wingers coming through the ranks.

not every team brings through Messi's every year, there has to be a few Luke Chadwicks too.

I'd kill to produce a couple of Luke Chadwicks...

Most of the youngsters in my U19 team end up being released once their original deal expires... Impossible to sell them, not for 1k, not even FOR FREE...

While I'm aware plenty of real-life young players fail to make it, but there must be some middle ground between a player becoming a first-team regular and a player disappearing from the game at 18 or younger.

Third rate newgens should still be adequate for the lowest playable league or for the league below it... Instead even sort-of-decent players fail to attract interest even from such sides, which instead are full of "grey players" of even lower quality...

The only thing from the OP that I agree with is the open trials. They happen in real life, so why not include them in the game.

Looking at the comments posted up to yet....

OPEN TRIALS = GOOD IDEA

PICKING NEWGENS = BAD IDEA

Keep up the good posts!

I think it's fine the way it is. Most youth players end up playing lower division with the exception of 1 or 2 making it through.

If you have a look at Man Utd's youth team of around 1992/93, the whole team near enough, ended up playing top level football.

Are you sure your not playing The Sims ?

totally agree with the op.

as a dane im not thsat familiar with, how its done in other countries, but i can give you an example of the best youth setup in denmark, and by far, which is a club called fc midtjylland.

every year, they invite a bunch of quite young players to their academy, they have all been scouted before being invited and out of those invited, they choose a whole team of young players. They always have 2 young talents for each position.

they might only have a few positions to be filled out, but i can tell you, that they systematically target those specific positions. If they need a left back, then they will bring in some left backs, not just some random players. Thats what any other logical thinking manager would do.

Its not every club, thats setup like that here in denmark. But i personally see the midtjylland-model, as being the better option. The amount of money they made by selling young talnets is crazy by danish standards.

So what the op is asking for, is already happening in a little nation called denmark and im quite sure, if you ask some dutch posters, they would say, that their model resembles that of midtjylland.

I completely agree with this point. When your youngsters come through, if you look at the coach report, half of them are said to be of poor quality and should be sold. These players shouldnt be taken on in the first place if the recommendation is to sell them as soon as they come into your u19s team. I know not all players make it in the real world, but they all have the potential in the beginning. I think this point needs to be strongly considered.

I also agree Lazaru5 that most players are not the new Messi or Bebe but that could easily be fixed too. The reports we get from our assistant and scouts when it's time to choose should be exaggerated. The next Messi should of course be a five star and easy recognized as a future star but most players in the list to choose from should be 3 or 4 star players and we would have to look at the players strengths and what the scout may say about hidden attributes to decide who may be formed into a future star. A PA110 player could have the same stars that a PA155 player has in the list.

Ah, to be dubbed the "new Bebe". Every players dream.

Ah, to be dubbed the "new Bebe". Every players dream.

I think he meant Kébé tbh, every player wants to be the new Jimmy Kébé.

Not sure I agree with the OP, doesn't seem entirely realistic. Youth players come through if they are good enough (relatively speaking), irrespective of position.

Your suggestion sounds far too gimmicky for me

I've seen some absolute rubbish come through Man United's Under 18 team, and every year there's a new batch containing some more rubbish. The occasional good prospect but mostly rubbish. And not even players that look half-decent but then play rubbish or fade away. No, these players just look rubbish. I never know how they got picked in the first place - what idiot coach of mine thought he was the best of the invisible Under 16/14/12 squad to be put into the U18's.

In real life, I would assume any player that makes it to the United U18 must have some good stats in something! And he'd be a good enough player for a League 1/2 club, but when I transfer list them for £1,000, no team is ever interested. Even when they get offered for free, no offers. So I release them, and no-one signs them. Very strange! If he was that bad, why didn't my team release him years ago instead of promoting him to the U18's.

Every real life youth team has players that are simply there to make up numbers. That said, the regen system is quite poor when it comes to lower quality players. In reality, Man Utd would quite possibly have a few poor defenders in their youth team who will not even make it as lower league players. But these defenders would still have defender attributes. Tbh, I'm not convinced by the new regen template system, I mean with high CA or PA players it seems to create a decent amount of well rounded players but the low ability ones are too often still ridiculously flawed. A 16 year old centre half would not have the slightest of chances of ever appearing for Man Utd U-18 if he can't tackle or mark at all. But in FM, if their finishing and dribbling is decent-ish they'll be in there. That's not right.

I'm surprised at how many posts are agreeing with the OP. It is utterly unrealistic. How many first team regulars at Chelsea, Man City, Liverpool - heck, even Man Utd came through their club's academy? Virtually nil in the last decade. The vast majority of their young stars are scouted and bought. that's how it is in the game; the situation as it is is very realistic.

Lets remember RL is not like FM.

In FM a players stats are definitive. In real life how good a player is at tackling, passing and so on is the subject of debate and scrutiny. Likewise with a players ability and potential no one really knows how good a player will turn out in RL, the Messei's and so on are obvious, but for most it's not quite so straight forward. Clubs have to keep players on to see who blossoms later, or conversely, who peaked at 15.

Most youngsters never make it as pro players but clubs keep them on till there late teens to see who might make it. That most newgens don't go anywhere is right, just wish the system in FM was less clear as to who has a high CA & PA. U18s with massive values when they have low stats and no experience are obviously going to make it.

LOL @ the thread title

I couldn't agree more with what you said..

Why does every youth player have 7 pace or something, or 4 natural fitness?

Ezequiel, Love your idea of young newgens not having fixed positions. As with real life, quite a lot of young players switch positions completely. I believe Shearer was a Goalkeeper at an early age?

shearer was always a striker, he was just asked to play in goal at a trial with newcastle, an error of judgement costing them £15m as it turned out

No problem with the way youth regens work at the moment. One of the parts of the game that actually does work well to be honest

I must have played 30-40 seasons over the games of FM I've played this year. I haven't had a decent player in my youth team yet unless I've bought them.

Am I the only one who gets excited as hell when new batch youth date gets closer?

Am I the only one who gets excited as hell when new batch youth date gets closer?

michael jackson, is that you?!?

carragher was a promising striker from what i've been told..

There is so much to do in FM's youth system!!!

This is not a bad idea, but i think, a simple feature like a part of the budget was for youth issues. In that budget would already be included trials, scout for new players, training the > 14 y o players and everting that could help you to have much better young players... i know that we have the "improve facilities" but is not something we could choose every year

I'm sure IRL the manager of a senior team has more input into which youth come through than a "bunch" of players being plonked into the U-19's like on FM. As i said in my original post, i wouldn't want every newgen to be described as "the next <insert name>" but to have at least the correct set of stats for their position. An afterthought on this matter would be to have a 'retraining' period when newgens come through so that if a CDF comes through with a RW's stat set then you can reset his main position to that. I know you can retrain them over years but to my knowledge their original position is always their "natural positon".

As for people saying my idea "bends" realism too much then i say to them the game is already full of unrealistic features that are in there to make the game more enjoyable. The manager requesting feeder and parent clubs? Never happen IRL. Manager asking board to build new ground? Lol@this!

For me personally this game needs to keep a flair of fantasy about it as this is what made the series so brilliant in the first place and too much realism will kill the main reason the Collyer Brothers created it in the first place...to take a rubbish team to world beaters in as little time as possible!

shearer was always a striker, he was just asked to play in goal at a trial with newcastle, an error of judgement costing them £15m as it turned out

heh, Alex Smithies was a midfielder who was shoved in goal in an under 8's game I think it was...(might have been an under 9's) - now he's one of the most sought after keepers outside of the premiership

David James was a Striker untill he played in goal in a kick around in the park and found out he was better in goal

I think the newgen side of the game is pretty good as it is and captures real life well. I love scouting for fresh faces each summer and grabbing the next ** from under the noses of a bitter rival. Sure its frustrating when 25th june comes round and you get a load of Grant Grant's (lol). Makes it that much sweater when you do get a 16 y'old who makes it into the first team. The only thing i dislike about the newgen system is when you get a central defender with great stats except a 4 for jumping. I know with training you can sort it out but if some ones a natural central defender you would expect them to be able to jump more than 2ft off the ground even if they are only 16.

I can witness that after years and years and years of top youth facilities within Premier I have seen only Tesco employees too.

" Coach X is particlulary excited about player X, one of the most talented young player ever seen in club x " -> I go to check its stats and the 16 years old highest value is 6 .............. every single year the same comic movie....

Oh, and most of the regens are bald... i think there is a hair problem in FM (LOL)

I like this new ideas, FM needs something new! imagine you want to do the new Ajax or Barcelona youth system... you can't control it in FM nowadays...