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Football Manager 2020 Feedback Thread


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2 minutes ago, herne79 said:

It's not a long ball over the top; it's not a striker sitting on the defensive line; it's not a "wholesale imperfection of the match engine"; it's not even something people see lots of times each match.  But it's being associated with all of things because that's how some are now perceiving the ME and can only see fault. 

It's just a great run, pass and finish which caught the opposition flat footed.  That's all it is.

I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree :) The runner does catch the opposition flat-footed and it's a nice goal if you simplify it down to "midfielder makes a run + unmarked full back plays a pass + defenders switched off", yes, however it's the reasoning behind the opposition being caught flat-footed that I'm suspecting there's an issue in. I can't put the entire lack of concentration and awareness of the defence down to only bad defending and tactics - I can see why it might've played a part but considering there are other issues that may or may not be related to this one I'm inclined to think the general inability for defending players to concentrate on marking and tracking their opposition is because of match engine code that can be improved upon heavily.

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5 minutes ago, bahrami said:

I've been playing this game since the CM days too, but I must be under 10 because I legitimately believe this is the worst match engine ever constructed. :idiot:

Missed the point.

Referencing people posting with immature comments like an under 10, not because they think its the worst match engine ever constructed:seagull:

Edited by diddydaddydoddy
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9 minutes ago, bahrami said:

No, the first picture is before the corner is taken. If you look closely at Torreira in the bottom corner right corner. Can you provide me any examples of a CB being in a position like Mariappa is? Don't know what more context can be needed than that lol.

 

The ME is broken. I don't know why so many try and justify everything that is reported.

You provided feedback and yours is as good as any nd You found something that in doesn't happen almost at all in professional football. I for one have never seen a center back to go on his own on a counter attack from his own goal and almost score a goal. It's unrealistic.

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3 minutes ago, Novem9 said:

I'm leader of YC in league. But I have 58 cards in 20 games which mean 2,9 YC during game. No really big count isn't?

I confused that AI teams have smaller especially low teams 

1352738557_Image3.thumb.png.10b4f28b4e288b07b52f29718b5e83e1.png

Do you play with "get stuck in"? 

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5 минут назад, andu1 сказал:

Do you play with "get stuck in"? 

Yes but on balanced mentality. And as I said 2.9 cards per game is not a big count, so its more about why AI have no many cards

Edited by Novem9
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4 minutes ago, Novem9 said:

Yes but on balanced mentality. And as I said 2.9 cards per game is not a big count, so its more about why AI have no many cards

Get stuck in produces more yellow cards, no matter the mentality. I suggest only using this for some players in the player instructions rather than teamwide.

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Только что, andu1 сказал:

Get stuck in produces more yellow cards, no matter the mentality.

Actually it different for every mentality for a second.

Только что, andu1 сказал:

I suggest only using this for some players in the player instructions rather than teamwide.

You dont listen me at all. I said I have no troubles with my YC, I suprised why AI dont use hard tackles especially in low teams

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14 minutes ago, Sanel said:

Great feedback. Best ME ever. 

Please do point out where it says feedback always has to be critical or where I said this is the best ME ever.  Is there something wrong with giving a little positive feedback?

If you can only respond with sarcasm and salt, please don't bother.

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1 hour ago, bahrami said:

The ME is broken. 

It's not broken though, is it? Do some issues need sorting? Yes. Is the game unplayable? No. 

image.thumb.png.9acb6d8cb88b7528c29a0c9ab2ed8d47.png

Nearly 46,000 people playing it (during the day on a Monday) - You wouldn't get that many people continually using a broken product. It's that simple. Now, I'm not naive enough to think all 46,000 are thoroughly enjoying it (although why would you play something you don't like), but it's a good number nonetheless. I await the inevitable glut of killjoys giving reasons why this figure means nothing quoting all manner of non-sequitors, as per. 

1 hour ago, bahrami said:

I legitimately believe this is the worst match engine ever constructed. 

You're entitled to that opinion. You're wrong, of course, but you're still entitled to it. But if you feel that way, you really should be doing something else with your spare time. 

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22 hours ago, Svenc said:

What are you doing, actually? :D I remember you Posting how the game were impossible for a couple Releases. Have you ever enquired for help? :) 

I have no clue what I am doing. And I don't know how to begin asking for help as I fail to understand the very basics of FM tactics. All I see is my players ignoring what I think I'm telling them to do and happily give the ball to the other team. I would need an "The Complete Imbeciles Guide to FM Tactics". You know, with lots of colorful pictures and a vocabulary suited for a very dumb three year old.

It doesn't matter, though. I'm done with FM20 for the time being. Red Dead Redemption 2, here I come.

Edited by Viking
My hovercraft is full of eels
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4 hours ago, Novem9 said:

 

 

Sorry Novem to use this as example. But how can anyone defend the game is beyond me. Just few posts up there were another three goals exactly the same in one game. There are dozens of examples just in last few pages and goals only. What about misses, nobody posted them. Look at these goals, what the ???? If such goals were realistic there would be 20 gosls per game. And what even more unrealistic is those runs from deep instead of runs from advanced position where striker managed to break offside trap. Only thing I agree with guys defending the game is that dline really looks too high in most of those goals.

Edited by Mitja
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14 minutes ago, Mitja said:

Is 45k a lot? How many play fifa?

In my opinion no. EA stated that FIFA20 has more than 10 million players.

Someone used the same argument for FM19, when there were 60k players. How could a game that has 60k players be bad? Obviously, the critics are wrong.

Edited by Vali184
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6 minutes ago, Vali184 said:

Someone used the same argument for FM19, when there were 60k players. How could a game that has 60k players be bad? Obviously, the critics are wrong.

 

1 hour ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

I await the inevitable glut of killjoys giving reasons why this figure means nothing quoting all manner of non-sequitors, as per. 

:seagull:

 

6 minutes ago, Mitja said:

Ok a couple of milion at least. So whats 45k?

It's completely immaterial how many people are playing a totally unrelated game. The point being made - and predictably being missed - is why so many thousands of people would continually play a game that is 'broken' or 'unplayable'. I mean, it's almost as if the game wasn't broken or unplayable. 

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Honestly. A Week ago i would have agreed with People saying "ME is Broken" or "Game is Broken" ... But i have been playing every Day for many Hours since and there must be a Reason why :brock: 

 

The ME is not Broken at all. It's not perfect but FAR from being broken. I am sure with a few ME Fixes it's gonna be the BEST FM in Years ... tho in my Opinion it already the Best

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1 minute ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

 

:seagull:

 

It's completely immaterial how many people are playing a totally unrelated game. The point being made - and predictably being missed - is why so many thousands of people would continually play a game that is 'broken' or 'unplayable'. I mean, it's almost as if the game wasn't broken or unplayable. 

How many notice ME issues except most glaring ones? How many people play on full or comprehensive? How many use downloaded tactics?

Yes game is solid outside of ME. Maybe its another reason why it has so "many" players.

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1 час назад, Dagenham_Dave сказал:

It's not broken though, is it? Do some issues need sorting? Yes. Is the game unplayable? No. 

image.thumb.png.9acb6d8cb88b7528c29a0c9ab2ed8d47.png

Nearly 46,000 people playing it (during the day on a Monday) - You wouldn't get that many people continually using a broken product. It's that simple. Now, I'm not naive enough to think all 46,000 are thoroughly enjoying it (although why would you play something you don't like), but it's a good number nonetheless. I await the inevitable glut of killjoys giving reasons why this figure means nothing quoting all manner of non-sequitors, as per. 

Well FM19 selled by 2mln+ copies. How many FM20 sales already? 1mln? So 46k = 4,6%. 500k sales? 9,2%. Not a big count even for Monday

Do we have alternative in this niche? This is answer why people still play even they dont really enjoy this right now

Edited by Novem9
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vor 2 Minuten schrieb Novem9:

Well FM19 selled by 2mln+ copies. How many FM20 sales already? 1mln? So 46k = 4,6%. 500k sales? 9,2%. Not a big count even for Monday

Do we have alternative in this niche? This is answer why people still play even they dont really enjoy this right now

Sorry but that's nonsense .. no offence . If i don't enjoy a Game. Why would i play it lol . No matter how many copies they SOLD !

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2 минуты назад, haffaz77 сказал:

Sorry but that's nonsense .. no offence . If i don't enjoy a Game. Why would i play it lol . No matter how many copies they SOLD !

I dont like FM20 ME and I play this right now because its my habit and I have no better alternative. Why smokers smoke even they want to stop this?

Edited by Novem9
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Off topic but it's kind of funny how Dagenham Dave will defend the ME at all cost. For myself I would have preferred Me 2016 with the rest of the fixes until 20.2.1. In which way is ME 2026 superior to Me 2016? It's a sideways update at most. 

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Just now, andu1 said:

Off topic but it's kind of funny how Dagenham Dave will defend the ME at all cost. For myself I would have preferred Me 2016 with the rest of the fixes until 20.2.1. In which way is ME 2026 superior to Me 2016? It's a sideways update at most. 

Same could be said of those criticising the ME dogmatically. 

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Just now, ChrisCo said:

Same could be said of those criticising the ME dogmatically. 

Yeah but it's kind of frustrating when they have a better ME and they make it worse in a so called improvement update. And we don't even have the option to play a previous build because they consider the updates to improve the game when it's not always so. They have to allow a rollback or something like that

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4 минуты назад, andu1 сказал:

They have to allow a rollback or something like that

especially since its not unique for Steam, Paradox's Stellaris available to choose version for example:

236749812_Image1.png.1994f848c3a7d69f78f3cca9b94db952.png

Its one of my favourite game where I'm agree with all new features, but some players dont and they could choose their favourite version

Edited by Novem9
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Dagenham_Dave has been at it for at least like 6-7 years. I have been away from the forums for like 3-4 years, but I distinctly remember his name and his tireless, constant defending of SI and the match engine. I have no clue what's in it for him, the persistence is insane. He certainly adds some counter-weight to criticism. To say the least. 

Edited by yandex
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3 минуты назад, yandex сказал:

He's been at it for at least like 6-7 years. I have been away from the forums for like 3-4 years, but I distinctly remember his name and his tireless, constant defending of SI and the match engine. I have no clue what's in it for him, the persistence is insane. He certainly adds some counter-weight to criticism. To say the least. 

I guess you used a wrong message for quote?

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1 hour ago, Vali184 said:

How many of those 45k use downloaded tactics every year, their main objective being just winning?

More than half of them don't even follow FM on twitter or this forum. This is what happens when you use your customers to test the game for yourself to save some cash.

How many of the downloaded tactics they're using are overpromoted crap?  Lots of people promote their stuff as the heir to the FM12 Diablo tactics.  ZEUS!  FM 2020 Dominator tactic!  And most of them are either just basically getting the results you'd expect with Barcelona or Man City or Bayern, or are tactics that work with a particular team at a particular time.  There's an expectation that some tactic highly tailored for a specific set of players will work all the time, and that's nonsense. 

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Can anyone beat 11 clear cut and 5 half chances in a game, almost all of them from long passes for King and Wilson to chase. At least I actually scored some of them, though the goals from Ake and Danjuma were from a corner and cross and not counted as chances. 5 goals from 16 chances though, decent conversion rate for FM20.

And poor Lewis Cook, 10 key passes and 8 chances created but only two assists. Must be my tactics.

 

bournemouth v palace.png

match stats.png

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22 minutes ago, andu1 said:

Yeah but it's kind of frustrating when they have a better ME and they make it worse in a so called improvement update. And we don't even have the option to play a previous build because they consider the updates to improve the game when it's not always so. They have to allow a rollback or something like that

I see what you're saying, and can't really make an educated comment on why SI don't let you use previous versions.

I do take issue with people offering their opinion as fact though, saying that SI 'make it worse' in regards to the ME just simply is not a fact, it is your opinion. And if we are to look at evidence, the game has had is best sales since well... ever. How many people are complaining about the ME on this thread? 30-40 maybe tops? And how many FM players actually use the forums? A tiny percentage probably, and of that tiny percentage an even smaller percentage are saying the ME is 'broken'.

I'm not saying you're wrong or right either way, I'm just saying lets look at the evidence and the actual number of people complaining about the ME vs those playing the game and not doing so.

Personally I agree there are a couple of issues, 1 v 1s and goals from set pieces, in my opinion. But not drastically wrong, just very slightly so.

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28 minutes ago, andu1 said:

Off topic but it's kind of funny how Dagenham Dave will defend the ME at all cost. 

I don't 'defend' anything. Why would I? There's nothing in it for me. I post my own opinions, and I react to others opinions. It's kinda how a forum works.

Again, that's off topic, I hope the mods are consistent in their actions. 

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Here's an idea - how about giving and discussing feedback about the game (the whole purpose of this thread) instead of bitching about people in the thread?  It really is tiresome.

If you have an issue with somebody or a post that someone makes, hit the report button in the top right corner and tell the Moderating team what's up so that we can review and action (if required).  Then just ignore it and get on with giving feedback.

Or simply use the ignore feature - put someone on ignore and you'll never hear from them again.

tbh anything is better than all these silly digs.

And if anyone feels the need to reply to this either PM me or don't bother as it'll just clog the thread up even more and your post will be removed.

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26 minutes ago, Novem9 said:

especially since its not unique for Steam, Paradox's Stellaris available to choose version for example:

236749812_Image1.png.1994f848c3a7d69f78f3cca9b94db952.png

Its one of my favourite game where I'm agree with all new features, but some players dont and they could choose their favourite version

Yes, exactly what i was thinking. I wonder why can't SI make something similar since they already have multiple steam branches

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7 minutes ago, andu1 said:

Yes, exactly what i was thinking. I wonder why can't SI make something similar since they already have multiple steam branches

One major difference, of course, is that Stellaris came out four years ago for PC and a year or so ago for console, which is on a different version.  It's really not that different from having access to FM15, 16, 17, 18 and 19.

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@Johnny Ace

A classical example. Unfortunatelly I not found a switch for English translation, but оборонительный = defensive. And I have no idea why defensive mentality team from 12st place vs my 1st place (balanced) use so high DL. Or better to say why ALL settings of DL in fact play high.

In logic they need to rollback and wait my team for hard tackling and counter attack. But there are few second before LOOOOONG passing and 1 on 1 again

1389450233_Image3.thumb.png.27236e367ad585e6584e1b64e5ef1eef.png

The most sad thing I tried to focus attention on this isse in November. And I analyzed IRL teams and yes, low teams use high DL for compact too, but they regroup when opposite team start attack. Maybe this team want to play counter? But why defensive? And there are no counter, just stay higher and watch how I use spacetrap which actually I dont ask to use

Edited by Novem9
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I feel like just popping in to very helpfully (obvs) say I agree with the comments regarding the 'long balls' and defensive lines with my own experience of the game so far.

I would say that about 80% of my goals are scored becasue my AM or striker has run off the defensive line onto a long ball played from either in my teams half on the the halfway line. My tactic is supposed to be a keep ball with patient passing build (balanced mentality) up howver this passing lasts till about the halfway line when a ball is punted (with escellent accuracy) over the top for someone to run on to. The passing is lovelly within my half, very nicely moving it about to create space but it never moves up the pitch, they just wait for the run then punt it.

I tried to guard against this in return on me by playing a deeper defensive line and using a CD on cover but they still push right up the pitch and get caughy by the same ball over the top, my defensive line does not seem to change based on how I set it in the tactic screen, I have a more defensive away tactic where I aim to defend deep and counter and the goals I concede and score are the same as my other tactic!

In addition to this despite playing a short passing patient build up my tactical style is listed as route one becasue that's what my players will do regardless of what I tell them.

This would be fine but when it happens on the majority of goals I can see peoples points about how it's boring even if it's a simulation there doesn't seem to be enough variation in player behaviour and goal types! Yes there are times when it seems to work and we score a lovelly goal but this doesn't happen often enough for me to forgive what is clearly a calculation the ME is making somewhere between my instructions and what actually happens.

Sure, I'm winning plenty of games which is great but I don't feel like I am having a massive impact tactically as a manager, I feel like I pick 11 players to go out and then just let them do their thing.

 

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10 minutes ago, Scott Jackson said:

In addition to this despite playing a short passing patient build up my tactical style is listed as route one becasue that's what my players will do regardless of what I tell them.

What is that all about? 

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3 minutes ago, Mitja said:

What is that all about? 

I think he means that if you click on your manager profile you can see different bars for stuff you tend to do like media handling and also preferred style of play. It says route one on mine to btw but I have pass into space ticked so maybe it makes sense?

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4 minutes ago, emil_sbn said:

I think he means that if you click on your manager profile you can see different bars for stuff you tend to do like media handling and also preferred style of play. It says route one on mine to btw but I have pass into space ticked so maybe it makes sense?

The game makes an approximation based on your current tactical instructions and matches it to what it thinks the 'closest' style is. Best to report it in a bugs forum if you think it's wrong, but there must be something about the instructions throwing it off.

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Latest ME is better than the previous ME for my tactic (which heavily relies on overlaps and wing plays). However, it killed the efficiency of my AMC. I was having a blast with my 4-2-3-1 during he beta but not so much now. Anyone knows a way to return to the beta ME? I really can accept 5 penalties each match rather than seeing the same type of goals over and over again with the current ME.

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9 minutes ago, Jack Joyce said:

The game makes an approximation based on your current tactical instructions and matches it to what it thinks the 'closest' style is. Best to report it in a bugs forum if you think it's wrong, but there must be something about the instructions throwing it off.

Dont really now if its worth considering it as a bug in my case as I have pass into space ticked and mixed passing, would be intresting to see what it says on others page thou.

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