I’m a broken man. My long rant about it.

[Beltsu]

This game, Football Manager 2019, has broken me. Has beaten me, kicked me while I was on the ground, and mocked me.

 

Let me vent my frustration.

 

I’ve been playing CM/FM for over the last 20 years. As it got more and more complex, I’ve been dedicating it more and more time. I never reload, I try to do a clean save. I don’t research for wonder kids or winning tactics. Over the past year, I’ve been watching Busthenet videos. Over the last 6/7 years, I’ve been reading guides on a semi-regular basis.

 

But I get on the game, I don’t win trophies. I try to manage the team I support (Boavista FC), and every year, I can barely past the first season on multiple save attempts  (usually sacked my jan/feb). So I got to decent saves on the past few years with Milan & Valencia (FM18 2 saves of 4 seasons), West Ham (FM17 6 seasons, finished 2nd on my last season), Everton (FM16). Not a single trophy. I thin my last trophy was the Ligue 1 with OL on FM14. As the get gets more complex, I’ve been struggling and struggling... 

 

This year, I started with Valencia. Created a manager without international caps (it kinda breaks my imersion to see nations caps and goals in my profile page). The results: 4th, 4th, 4th, 3rd (and CL semifinal), 5th. On that last season, the board wasn’t happy that I failed a CL spot. They gave me an ultimatum. 10 points in 5 games. Stupid me, didn’t bargained. Invested as I’ve never invested before on that pre-season. Start the season, 2 wins. Go to Athletic, and lose (they were the ones who finished 4th the previous seasons). So now, I need 4 points from 2 matches. Hosted Real Madrid. And so it goes. 1-0. 1-1. 1-2... 2-2 on the 89th minute. That was close...

5th game. Host Malaga. 31 shots (12 on target) by my team. 1 goal. 3 Malaga shots (1 on target). The result? You guessed it. 1-1. 8 points. I was sacked.

 

Kept going with the save. By December that year, I was hired by Bayer Leverkusen. They were having a bad season (14th), and I raised the goal of mi table to upper mid-table. Finished 9th. I thought the board would want Europa League football next season, but no... they want a CL spot. So, the season starts. By around 1/4th of the season I’m going great. 1st place, good football, plenty of goals. But then... the goals stopped. And so we dropped. Was 9th by the winter break. But we got ourselves up after beating Bayern 4-1. Rose to 4th. Tight table. 2 match days to finish, were 1 point away from 3rd place. From 3rd to 9th, the difference is just 6 points. We go to Munich... and lost 3-1. And end the season with a home defeat against Eintracht Frankfurt. We finish... 9th place. 2 points shy of EL football.

 

Board meeting. I don’t get the sack. Yet. But I have to get 12 points out of 5 games. No bargain allowed. The pre season? Awful transfer market, and I lost my top striker who had a release clause, and my main targets didn’t want to come, as I had no European football. So, I have to win 4/5 on the start of the season. So I go. WDWL. I’m out...

 

Getting demotivated by now. But wait! I get to manage Brasil national team! And I start by beating Argentina easily. On the road to the WC, I lose just one game (at home to Argentina), draw a friendly with Spain, and win every other game. With a national team based on regens, and a 33 y/o Neymar. I got to the 1/4 finals beating Italy on the way. But then I face Germany... and lose 2-0. Sacked. Fair enough. 

 

Got hired by Atalanta, looking to get into Europa League. But by now, the game is full of regens and I hardly know the teams. I think I don’t have the will to carry on with this save.

 

So yesterday, I decided I should start with my Boavista, again. Decent pre-season. Tried to create a defensive, counter-attack team. First official match, League Cup: 0-0 against Moreirense, lost on penalties. Start the season against FC Porto and Sporting Lisbon. Lost 4-0 and 3-1. Next, I host Vitoria Setúbal. Was playing nicely and creating chances. They go down to 10 men by the 60th minute. And I... can’t... score... 0-0. Stating to get on my nerves. Next match, away at Nacional. By the 17th minute I’m losing 2-0. By the 25th minute, my captain does a ugly tackle, is show the red card. Rage quit.

 

I don’t know what to do... I enjoy playing this game so much, but it keeps giving me bad experiences this year. And I think, THINK that i know most of the tactical theory, but I can’t seem to understand  how can I get so overrun on some games. I do change and tinker tactics a lot. Maybe that’s wrong? Maybe I should stick with a vision and “force” the players into it? 

 

I want a new save, but don’t really know what. Does having international caps on the manager experience easies the game? 

 

I’m thinking about managing Everton, West Ham or Newcastle. Or maybe role play that I’m a former star (like Figo or Robert Pires) and manage a team like Arsenal. Or should I go back and continue with my original save with Atalanta?

 

Have you ever felt like this, broken by the game? Do you have a save suggestion for me? 

 

If you’ve read my rant so far, thank you. I just feel so overwhelmed that I need to vent it out.

[sporadicsmiles]

Firstly, I think most people can relate to your pain somewhat. My first advice would be to step away. FM is a game, and if you are not enjoying it you should take a break from it for a while. Forcing yourself to play in the face of frustration is not a good thing.

Let me just pick out a few things that I think you could improve as a way of playing that I got from this post. Maybe it will give you some new ideas.

5 hours ago, Beltsu said:

The pre season? Awful transfer market, and I lost my top striker who had a release clause, and my main targets didn’t want to come, as I had no European football

To me this all points to not having a coherent transfer policy. For transfers and contracts, I operate on a sliding 18 month system. I am always planning for what my team will be like in 18 months. That means identifying targets way in advance of actually signing them. And having multiple targets, in case something happens that prevents me buying the player I want (as in your case). I do not know if you do this, but keeping an active shortlist of players, that you review periodically to weed out players you are not interested in any more is, for me, key. It avoids me getting into situations like yours for the most part.

6 hours ago, Beltsu said:

I do change and tinker tactics a lot. Maybe that’s wrong? Maybe I should stick with a vision and “force” the players into it? 

As long as you have a vision for what you are doing, I do not think it will matter. There are people who will tinker all the time, and people who have a single vision for football (I am this one). But I do not think one way is right or wrong. If you have a good idea of what you want to do, and enough nouse to translate that into a tactic, then stick with your method. Goes back to my 18 month rule I mentioned above too. Plan ahead, know where you want to be tactically. From the description of your save, you have done an admirable job in most cases. Top 4 consistently in Spain is not easy. Germany is a hard country to manage outside the top two because so many teams are so close in standard.

6 hours ago, Beltsu said:

Or maybe role play that I’m a former star (like Figo or Robert Pires) and manage a team like Arsenal.

I am actually doing this right now, the role playing aspect. As Didier Drogba. I did not immediately start at one of his former clubs, but I intend to manage as many of them as I possibly can in this save. I have very much enjoyed it, actually. And it could help you with your unwillingness to set international experience (which does help at least with the squad listening to and respecting you). You probably should make some guidelines in your head about how you will play, though. Will you try to emulate an aspect of their play tactically? Act like them at press conferences? That kind of thing.

[Svenc]

You're still likely doing better than the game's AI.  [Dunno About trophies, but the prospect of getting sacked somewhere down the line belongs to a footie sim game to me … real Managers last Maybe two, three Seasons in their Job (mostly sacked in a result slump which on many an Occasion may be influenced by "bad luck"). But if you're doing better, you're already doing better]. Maybe purchase that "unsackable" thingy. I personally have no interest whatsoever in These "stay at a club for a Lifetime and win stuff" saves anymore, but that's me. 

[Halofon]

This year I felt the same way.

Starting the season over and over and over, because I did not want to abandon my team. Starting journeyman save as unemployed. Tried all kinds of tactics. Always getting just average results. No thrill from first Euro league start with underdog teams, etc. I always started my reputation to lowest to have it more realistic. maybe this was the problem

I stopped playing it. Tried playing FM 12, 14. No fun. Stopped playing it.

After this I started playing Pro Evo on Xbox to see football from different perspective. After few days I told to myself that maybe I am not so good manager and should just give up. I gave it last shot. Set my reputation and coaching badges to automatic adjusted to my team rep. Read somewhere on the forum, that gegenpress tactic just works. Tried it. Now I am in my second season of that save and enjoying it as hell. Gegenpress with little tweaks works as a charm, even with 10 game unbeaten runs without many alterations. I was never into micormanagement, and thought that this might be the fault. But second season of overachieving proves that maybe I was just using wrong tactic? I dont know. Still it seems to me, that it needed to step away a little and look at a game from a different angle again.

 

Hopefully my save will not get wrong But I feel you man

[Shrabon]

Starting with the lowest reputation and no license makes it somewhat difficult,as I have learned (learnt?). Players don't trust you,they are always disinterested in your pep talk etc. It's down to your perspective of what you consider to be realistic; or sometimes a balance between realistic enough and fun enough. For me, it's starting as Sunday league player with no coaching license as unemployed. I've heard people say "Nobody gets in the football manager field without any coaching license" so starting with a decent coaching license is realistic for them. I can never get invested if I don't start with no license and Sunday league because that's what I have irl. I quit those saves in around January. But starting in the least favourable way takes up an awful lot of time atleast for me to reach a good level & sometimes ultimately when you reach the desired level,you lose the passion. I started my most recent career in Slovakia,Iceland,Serbia,Slovenia and 1 more country where I haven't managed ever,and after struggling for around 2022 I finally found my feet in Samorin of Slovak second division,got them promoted,wanted to make them European powerhouses (lol) but I never managed to really upgrade the finances and the board didn't help either and after a spell with Zilina and then Bosnia,finally when I found a good job in Denmark,ranked 21st in 2030,I lost interest in the save completely. Now haven't played FM for 2/3 weeks because I can't muster the drive to start all over again :(

[Rashidi]

14 hours ago, Beltsu said:

I do change and tinker tactics a lot. Maybe that’s wrong? Maybe I should stick with a vision and “force” the players into it? 

Why don't you decide on one style of play for your team, see how best to fit your players into it and then proceed. Have a more attacking variant of the tactic, in case you need it and a more defensive variant. When you pick certain teams who have targets, sometimes you need a preferred formation, one you know and then decide how best to fit the players you have. 

Your challenge is quite hard, you are going to high reputation teams as a low rep manager, that in itself makes it hard to keep the players motivated. So you probably need a good run of results before you win them over. And i think tinkering with tactics is never usually a good idea, unless you know what it affects. What makes the game easier is choosing the right kind of team for a start: A team that's not expected to finish in european spots and one that is not a contender for demotion, I would recommend picking one of those clubs and just going in as an ex international player.

[priority76]

14 hours ago, Beltsu said:

Have you ever felt like this, broken by the game? Do you have a save suggestion for me? 

 

Yes yes yes, personally I find it too hard and too frustrating without a little help.  Try some downloaded tactics, allow yourself a few 'reloads' and give your manager max experience, it's helps take the edge off the RAGE a little bit.

[AEJ]

I know It sounds simplistc, but...

FM19 rewards high pressing, attacking football, even with smaller teams

Just go with a 4231 or 433 with two or three players in attack duty. Ultra press is essencial.

I beat ManCity in the Club World Cup final using a south american team, much weaker to any top european side, enjoying 60% possession. I would say it was easy. And like you, I do not use any downloadable formation or content.

Attack!

 

[oblongata21]

On 24/04/2019 at 09:07, Beltsu said:

Have you ever felt like this, broken by the game? Do you have a save suggestion for me? 

 

 

Oh yes, many saves have destroyed my will lol.

Why dont you give one of the lower leagues a go with a higher badge? Even better, start of low and play as a journeyman. I think most the board expectations there are a little more realistic, so you might be able to stay more motivated. Im playing as Scarborough at the moment, in the lower English pyramid and enjoying it because it provides different challenges compared to higher leagues.

[99]

Honestly, if things are not working as expected, try an already setup tactic (download one from the most known sites, including this forum), plug & play it. Does it work better than yours used to? Ok, then start deconstructing it. What does that tactic has that yours don't? Watch a full 90 minute game with your tactic and in another save with a plug & play tactic and... what are the players doing differently that works?

It's good to learn from scratch, but to do that, you need to have an idea first on what works and why.

If my experience counts for something, in FM19 one of the preset tactics is amazing to do this, without needing to download anything. It's the Gegenpress with the 4-2-3-1 formation. Have you tried it? If you haven't, do it and see what happens.

On the long run other things, if you decide to manage yourself, give you a boost. It's a micro-management game after all, the more ways you can add another 1% to your team, the more success you'll have. I'm talking about manually setting up the staff (coaches (!!), scouts, medical...), the training, the youngsters development, constantly asking the boad to improve facilities and so on. 

A final tip, is that you start the game with a giant team. Think, Real Madrid, Manchester, PSG. Those teams are more likely to win even if you do your job "wrong", since they have a tremendous squad. It's perfect for learning. Once you learn, and the game starts being very easy on those teams, then move bellow, to Europa Legaue kind of teams and bellow and bellow. Think of it as the difficult modes of FM. PSG being the easy mode, Schalke 04 as normal mode, Boavista as hard mode and União de Leiria (as a fellow portuguese you know it) as the very hard mode (there are even hardest, for hard-core players).

Hope it helps!

[jujigatame]

17 hours ago, AEJ said:

I know It sounds simplistc, but...

FM19 rewards high pressing, attacking football, even with smaller teams

Just go with a 4231 or 433 with two or three players in attack duty. Ultra press is essencial.

I beat ManCity in the Club World Cup final using a south american team, much weaker to any top european side, enjoying 60% possession. I would say it was easy. And like you, I do not use any downloadable formation or content.

Attack!

 

This is part of it.  Playing a defensive tactic with a mediocre club is a recipe for getting thrashed in this ME.

Also yes, the game effectively penalizes you for switching tactics and lineups frequently, so if you're doing that it could be another problem.

[Beltsu]

Guys, thank you all for the feedback. I'm still wondering what to do next. I do find it apealing the idea of training a higher power, like Arsenal. I don't usually do that.

4 hours ago, jujigatame said:

This is part of it.  Playing a defensive tactic with a mediocre club is a recipe for getting thrashed in this ME.

Also yes, the game effectively penalizes you for switching tactics and lineups frequently, so if you're doing that it could be another problem.

I do feel that the game "forces us" to play a pressing style. I would like to create a Mourinho-like tactic (circa his Inter time), with a low block, low pressure and fast counter attack football, but everytime I do that, the results aren't good.

 

On 24/04/2019 at 16:35, Rashidi said:

Why don't you decide on one style of play for your team, see how best to fit your players into it and then proceed. Have a more attacking variant of the tactic, in case you need it and a more defensive variant. When you pick certain teams who have targets, sometimes you need a preferred formation, one you know and then decide how best to fit the players you have. 

Your challenge is quite hard, you are going to high reputation teams as a low rep manager, that in itself makes it hard to keep the players motivated. So you probably need a good run of results before you win them over. And i think tinkering with tactics is never usually a good idea, unless you know what it affects. What makes the game easier is choosing the right kind of team for a start: A team that's not expected to finish in european spots and one that is not a contender for demotion, I would recommend picking one of those clubs and just going in as an ex international player.

The one, the only, Rashidi, the Man! Tell me, how do you setup your manager? Do you always create him with automatic badges/experience? I know that we can get badges as the game progresses, if we ask the board. But, if I start with sunday league experiece, does the experience "level up" as the game goes on? Is it possible to be respected in the future, starting with low rep?

Also, do you usually build the tactic around your players,or try to fit the players and rebuild the squad to the tactic you chose? I've seen your guides, but what do you prefer to do? I'm really interested about it.

 

I feel that this year, the game is giving me a beating. With my experience in the previous years, the stuff I've read and videos I've seen, I'm still struggling. Sometimes, I struggle to make the players do the stuff I'm telling them to. Or I believe I'm telling them to.

 

Damn... what a game...

 

 

 

[Rashidi]

1 hour ago, Beltsu said:

The one, the only, Rashidi, the Man! Tell me, how do you setup your manager? Do you always create him with automatic badges/experience? I know that we can get badges as the game progresses, if we ask the board. But, if I start with sunday league experiece, does the experience "level up" as the game goes on? Is it possible to be respected in the future, starting with low rep?

Also, do you usually build the tactic around your players,or try to fit the players and rebuild the squad to the tactic you chose? I've seen your guides, but what do you prefer to do? I'm really interested about it.

If i want to have an easy game, where i can focus on tactics and training and just have fun, i am an ex international. My lower league challenges are a bit more hardcore where i earn my badges as a Sunday league footballer. Then the challenge is a bit more. The game only gets easier if your reputation goes up, not as those badges accumulate. They help as far as training as concerned, but depending on how much of a challenge you take, you are probably a non event in the coaching department. So you are basically one of the coaches who helps to lighten the load. Once you start winning and getting the club promoted you start gaining some reputation. As a Sunday league footballer, you will need to do very very well. 

When you are doing lower league football, you are at the mercy of the players you find. So you tend to build a system around them. You can if you are lucky trial so may players that you can also build them into a system. So it depends on how much work you put into it. I prefer to start lower league football playing systems that have 2 strikers, so i tend to favour more defensive systems and go for counter attacking football. Now in this game most people seem to think you need to play on lower mentalities, all i do is play on positive and play with a low line of engagement. Thats usually enough. You don't really need to play on lower mentalities. In fact i honestly believe lower mentalities are a waste of time in FM19. The DL/LOE nexus makes the game too easy atm. 

And its way easier to play as an underdog, most teams try and hit you so playing with a 532 is probably a good idea, cos all you really need are two going for goal. And most times the AI is playing with wingbacks against you as an underdog. The AI manager is also terrible at handling more complex systems, SI could have done a better job with creating more complex presets which would have given the AI more latitude in its systems, it instead plays off manager variables that sorely need improving. So all you  really need to do is play standard/low line of engagement, create a tactic where you tell most of your players to try and keep the ball, set say a DLP deep with good passing and vision, set him to direct, then ask the two strikers to do a split block. Avoid telling your team to prevent short gk distribution to keep your shape and find two strikers both fast and at least one of them has jumping reach and good passing. The AI won't be able to handle your over the top goals. 

Plus i am moving this to training and tactics cos i think you  can get more help there, in case i perish in a hail of volcanic fire.

[Puluzu]

13 hours ago, jujigatame said:

 

Also yes, the game effectively penalizes you for switching tactics and lineups frequently, so if you're doing that it could be another problem.

Does the game penalize changing team? Since I started playing in FM08 or there abouts) I've always played with a 1st team and a 2nd team if I am managing a big team with European football sprinkled in. Second team plays all domestic cups except maybe finals, league games before CL matches and league games before another tougher league game. Also if I am home against a team I am expected to win easily and the first team just played, I always use the second team. In the end it's something like 65-35, sometimes even 60-40 in percentages. I've often wondered if I'd do even better if I stuck to a tired first team much more often and kept a smaller squad. I just completed my third quadruple in three seasons with ManU. Average around 100 points in the league and CL won two out of three times (lost the final in my first season). Last season conceded 4 goals in CL in total, scored around 40.

[Armistice]

I can sympathize with you OP, I'm in the same boat. In FM19 I have never got past the first 3-4 weeks of the season. Even after I took a long break and returned I still couldn't get a save going. This has happened for a few years to be fair, but in FM17 I still had an enjoyable save with Hartlepool, then in FM18 with Udinese. Again this opinion might not be echoed by many people but I think there are only a few people who know exactly what they're doing in the game and what there needs to be done when things go wrong. For me the game lost its spark after all those new sophisticated & shiny things were added. Cool, it adds a lot of details but now it just feels like when you were in elementary school and you were forced to do your homework everyday for good grades instead of going out and play football.

 

Imo if you want to get a save going just stop thinking about results, pick a decent team, start with a tactical preset or get one of Rashidi/Cleon's tactics that fit your team and play along without getting too involved in any aspect of the game. Once you feel that it's getting a bit boring to just press continue, set up your scouts and try to find good youth players for the future. Once you set that up, try to figure out a good corner/free kick routine. Take it step by step. Remember, do not put pressure on yourself, you only need to start loving the game again.

[crusadertsar]

I can totally relate. As tactic system is getting more complicated from year to year it seems to become harder and harder to actually win or even score goals. Honestly, over the last couple of iterations of the game, the only trophies I have won were cups. I still haven't managed to win Premiership with any team since doing it back on fm2015 with Arsenal. 

But I still play the game and enjoy it. Call me crazy. I think to me its about enjoying the journey as much as the destination. I really like crafting squads and creating tactics. So far I feel like it makes a difference. It's just there also another team on the field who doesn't cooperate with my plan

But if it was easy would we still play it?

[Mitja]

i think fm19 ME is very specific and like others have said favours specific style over others. personally i don't like it and play 17, (in which AI is actually too good and adaptive). while tactical presets are defenetely good thing, football styles are not implemented really well into this ME, it can happen you play something completely else than you think. SI would do us all favour if they tried to simplify things like they did with presets and removal of team shape. tactical creator far is too complex these things should get sorted like player roles were and there are far too many styles. many of them don't really do what they should. more defensive styles are far too safe and possessional and more attacking can be too impatient. there's no ''defensive'' possessional style in real life, all ''defensive styles'' are quick and direct. (in fm17) for example i'm in situation where all teams play ''retain possession'' with ultra high d-line and defensive fluid style against my team full of elite players. can we have a little ball too, please? or did anyone tell me it's good to man mark their midfielders now? 

 

[crusadertsar]

@Rashidi

Some great advise there and a insight in your comment. Thank you! You mentioned strikers doing a "split block". What is that exactly and how do I set it up?

[Rashidi]

Pressing is too simple on FM at the moment. Let's see how pressing works.

1. Normally you would choose pressing intensity this affects EVERYONE, which is a bit ....erm inefficient. Its a simple way of playing, but there are Team Instructions that can screw things up

2. Eg. You play out of defence and the AI decides to Prevent Short GK Distribution, if your players aren't good they get shut down, not by pressing but by trying to shut down passing lanes. Here though sometimes teams play with aggressive pressing, this is when the combination of Prevent Short GK can be a problem for the side using it. Cos when it tries to shut down passing lanes its players are in odd little shapes, leaving spaces behind, this allows a team with right roles to pass it by with simple passes. So you need to use prevent short GK carefully. 

So whats a better style of pressing? The best style of pressing is Split Block pressing. This is pressing done by zones using the LOE to influence it. The LOE sets instructions to your team on when to press. Standard = own half. So the bulk of your team will be ready to press in own half. Split block assigns specific players to close down more, tight mark and tackle harder. So when their zones get infliltrated those players press. 

Here split block can work very well with top heavy systems or even midfield heavy systems. Here you are effectively creating pressing traps in the game. So say you use a 4231, front 3 are told to split block the rest of the team is left on middle notch of team pressing,. Now what happens when you have a slightly high LOE, the front group presses hard, the middle group shuts down passing lanes. You can have more different variations, it's possible and here you are only using LOE to influence when your team presses. This is really the only way to create pressing traps like the in the game. 

[crusadertsar]

Great stuff Rashidi! Can't wait to try it out in my save. Never thought about like that. Always thought it was about setting high engagement line and high defensive line like in default Gegenpressing template. It's crazy how some things the game just doesn't tell us. Hopefully this will help my Chelsea save to get going. Thanks!

[Finners]

As others have said or implied, stop making it so hard for yourself. Forget your immersion a moment, a few international caps next to your name is something you can tolerate for a more enjoyable game. 

Everyone here will applaud your desire to not Google the best wonderkid bargains or download a winning tactic but then if your transfer policy is rubbish and your tactics are terrible clearly you need a bit of help. 

This isn't an mmo, this isn't a multilayer game, it's just you having your own experience and whatever makes you happy is correct. So why not just download a tactic that works and a decent player shortlist and take it from there? 

The key is to not stop at that. Don't just plug it and play but study it. Study the short list, why are those players good buys? Study the tactic, why does it work and mine doesn't? 

Then begin to adapt it for your style. Whenever I find myself in a rut I'll download a popular tactic and look at what's in it and then maybe apply some of its principles to the system I'm trying to run. Why not?

 

That's not cheating its just learning. 

[Rashidi]

Above all have some realistic expectations, there are some who seem to play this effortlessly, but the reality is everyone struggled at some point. So manage those expectations and make the game easier for yourself when you begin. One way of playing is to have two saves running concurrently, with a side that is reasonably good , good enough for you try tactics out. And, another with a side that you want to challenge yourself with. 

[Robson 07]

Good opening post; some interesting replies.

I do think the game is a little bit lost these days.  Still think its good but I strongly suspect thousands of people are unsuccessful or unable to play a straight game.  Great the game evolves but a lot of concepts now that are unexplained and misunderstood.  For example I don't believe the much maligned and hard to understand 'team shape' has really left FM at all.  It's just wrapped up differently under other labels.  Conceptually SI wanted it swept under the carpet but its still present.

[goalash]

On 26/04/2019 at 00:46, Beltsu said:

I do feel that the game "forces us" to play a pressing style. I would like to create a Mourinho-like tactic (circa his Inter time), with a low block, low pressure and fast counter attack football, but everytime I do that, the results aren't good.

Hate high press too. Low block Mourinho, “the fastest counter attack in the world”... We’re on the same team, mate.

[CARRERA]

The biggest mistake one can actually do  Is to think that you can recreate whatever style of Football because the Game and all the options Is trying to Tell you that.

in fact you have to figure out what Works with the ME and what doesnt also you have to understand which role or General behavior of the Players Is due to settings and which Is just pre scripted and cant be changed.

also the whole Concept of Duty Mentality Team Snape Roles TI PI OI Is waaaaaay to complicated and misleading. For what reason do you need several Risk Layer for every aspect  of the Game....

[Filke]

Is it possible to have success with just default tactic, I started new save to test with AC Milan, just picking preset gegen. 4-2-3-1 wide. So far its very good. Plugged tactic after napoli loss.

[NabsKebabs]

On 27/04/2019 at 04:12, Robson 07 said:

Good opening post; some interesting replies.

I do think the game is a little bit lost these days.  Still think its good but I strongly suspect thousands of people are unsuccessful or unable to play a straight game.  Great the game evolves but a lot of concepts now that are unexplained and misunderstood.  For example I don't believe the much maligned and hard to understand 'team shape' has really left FM at all.  It's just wrapped up differently under other labels.  Conceptually SI wanted it swept under the carpet but its still present.

Sorry but what the hell are you talking about it? Team shape of the the old FM's is completely irrelevant to FM19. I'm not sure what you're talking about. You're just causing confusion. 

[Mitja]

16 minutes ago, NabsKebabs said:

Team shape of the the old FM's is completely irrelevant to FM19. I'm not sure what you're talking about. You're just causing confusion. 

is it? 

[NabsKebabs]

2 minutes ago, Mitja said:

is it? 

Yes. 

[NabsKebabs]

People make up utter nonsense on here. Just head over to @Rashidi's YT channel and all the information you need is on there. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCWUCWx5HNWSuzwGxwVczGPQ

I started really enjoying the game when I started to properly learn implement ideas into the tactical creator. All I did was subscribe to Rashidi's YT channel and watch his daily videos. You won't find any better content out there really and when you come on here you just get more confused. 

[Robson 07]

54 minutes ago, NabsKebabs said:

Sorry but what the hell are you talking about it?

Team shape did a few things.  One of those things was to achieve a more tightly compacted team at the Very Fluid end.  Strikes me that Line of Engagement does something a little bit similar in that respect.  But I'm not sure how well it's understood.  Most people want to use a much higher LOE to engage in pressing the opposition earlier but this could stretch the team and leaves holes if the first man pressing is beaten or bypassed.

By the way, subscribing to someone's YT channel, however useful it is, shouldn't be necessary to find out how the game works. 

[NabsKebabs]

28 minutes ago, Robson 07 said:

Team shape did a few things.  One of those things was to achieve a more tightly compacted team at the Very Fluid end.  Strikes me that Line of Engagement does something a little bit similar in that respect.  

Line of engagement is only out of possession. Yes, it will change the compactness of your team out of possession but it still isn't at all the same as team shape. Team shape affected the mentality of your team. So it affected how your team played with and without the ball. More players would come come back and help defend and more players would go up and help attack if you played on fluid. 

28 minutes ago, Robson 07 said:

Most people want to use a much higher LOE to engage in pressing the opposition earlier but this could stretch the team and leaves holes if the first man pressing is beaten or bypassed.

Agree...that is the risk of the high press...if a team can play through the initial press they can find a lot of time and space to work with and pick out players making runs ahead of them. 

28 minutes ago, Robson 07 said:

By the way, subscribing to someone's YT channel, however useful it is, shouldn't be necessary to find out how the game works. 

Never said it should be necessary. But the reality is that it is because the game itself doesn't explain things properly. I'm suggesting go to a trusted source instead of getting confused by the misinformation on here cos that's what worked for me. 

[Robson 07]

9 minutes ago, NabsKebabs said:

So it affected how your team played with and without the ball. More players would come come back and help defend and more players would go up and help attack if you played on fluid. 

Which you achieve by selection of duties.  More support is effectively more fluid.

So by using duty selection and line of engagement together you get to Team Shape.  Thanks for agreeing.

[CARRERA]

Please... Team shape Is still the Same as it was before it Even still changes mentality. You just cant apply it By one Click as it was in earlier editions.

[NabsKebabs]

1 minute ago, Robson 07 said:

Which you achieve by selection of duties.  More support is effectively more fluid.

So by using duty selection and line of engagement together you get to Team Shape.  Thanks for agreeing.

Team shape in FM19 is just what duties you select. In the older FM's team shape was a modifier to the duties you select. Simple as that. You're just confusing yourself tbh, especially with thinking of it in terms of LOE. Team shape is not a real concept after all. Defensive shape in terms of LOE and defensive line is a real concept. And so are roles/duties (to a certain extent, you don't tell a player to play as a winger on attack but you would tell him to dribble and make runs in behind. 

[NabsKebabs]

2 minutes ago, CARRERA said:

Please... Team shape Is still the Same as it was before it Even still changes mentality. You just cant apply it By one Click as it was in earlier editions.

No it isn't. It's amazing how people don't understand this. 

In FM19 team shape is just a function of what duties you select, the game calculates it for you. It is basically meaningless in FM19. In the older FM's team shape was a modifier you could use to affect the duties you select to behave differently.  

[herne79]

nabs is correct.

Team Shape and Team Fluidity are discussed in the "FM19 Tactical Changes" thread pinned to the top of the forum.  Note the opening line which says it's been reviewed by SI.

 

[Bunkerossian]

The OP does lead me to an important question: how important is the ability to motivate players and have their respect (starting manager experience affects this?) when compared to tactics?

[Mitja]

28 minutes ago, NabsKebabs said:

In FM19 team shape is just a function of what duties you select, the game calculates it for you. It is basically meaningless in FM19. In the older FM's team shape was a modifier you could use to affect the duties you select to behave differently. 

the question is does shape still function in the background depending on your role selection? spotting the difference shouldn't be that hard.

[CARRERA]

14 minutes ago, herne79 said:

nabs is correct.

Team Shape and Team Fluidity are discussed in the "FM19 Tactical Changes" thread pinned to the top of the forum.  Note the opening line which says it's been reviewed by SI.

 

Maybe this is a Bug then, or a failure of display. Strange in any way....

Very Fluid

 

Highly Structured

 

As you can see the Mentality changed from Positive (Very Fluid) to Attacking (Highly Structured). No other Settings Changed as you can see, but i guess you can recreate it anyway..

[Mitja]

it must a bug then.

[herne79]

3 minutes ago, CARRERA said:

As you can see the Mentality changed from Positive (Very Fluid) to Attacking (Highly Structured). No other Settings Changed as you can see, but i guess you can recreate it anyway..

There are some known UI glitches which really don't help.  Personally I think the whole "Team Fluidity" thing should just be removed from view - it was confusing during beta testing and remains confusing due to the similarity in naming conventions / descriptions.

[noikeee]

FM19 is not really very fun at all, and I stopped playing FM altogether a while ago. It's a strange mix of

a) there's no "easy" clear way out to win as in previous games, ie no major exploits. Whilst this is realistic, it makes it very hard for the human player to know whether you're overachieving or not, as you need to play over a long term run of games to realize whether you're winning slightly more than average or not. In past match engines you could just play 4 or 5 games and notice it clearly when it was good. Now even the "good" systems are just a slight subtle advantage. So for the inexperienced player it's really hard to gauge when have you hit the sweet spot or not. Imagine you've got a good system but you don't realize it and just had 1 bad match, it's pretty easy to overthink it and change it into a worse tactic.

b) related to this, generally FM19 is a low scoring game. So if in past FMs a good tactic would get you consistent 3-0 4-0 wins over slightly weaker sides, now you're gonna get 1-0s 2-0s 2-1s. It feels worse. Also it seems harder to score from open play and not so much from set pieces, so it's often death by a thousand paper cuts in generating more attacking corners and freekicks until you eventually score one. This also means if you don't touch the default set piece schemes, you're gonna get considerably worse results as those schemes are ****.

c) plus, counter-intuitively, despite being a low scoring game, it seems to reward slightly more to be attacking and pressing hard. So you might feel, well this is so hard to score in here, and my team's a bit in a bad morale run, it's probably better to sit back, soak up pressure, hit them on the break. Then the AI camps in your area, you think well this is good they're not playing through my defence, but then they get 10 corners and score one, then score a screamer from 20 yards out, 2-0 defeat. What happened? Well, you're playing a suboptimal tactic, a defensive soaking tactic can work if it's really really well balanced, but generally the team that camps up front wins more in FM19.

d) though this doesn't apply to the OP, the really frustrating thing about FM19, and this already comes from at least 2 FMs back (but it wasn't such a problem before the game became this low scoring) is that it's WAY harder to score once your team becomes favourites, because the AI starts playing deeper and deeper and deeper and more and more defensive, up to a slightly ridiculous point. So you'd start your career as a underdog and figured out if you actually play attacking, you win games. It's a blast at the very beginning as your team plays exhilarating, fun, quick counter-attacking passing football as the AI leaves you gaps to exploit, but you very quickly become a victim of your own success as the AI quickly realises you're good and parks a giant double-decker bus at you. So you stop playing good football, and either you adapt to win through the death-by-a-million-papercuts game of camping in the opposition area and winning through a set piece and a long shot, or your tactic will fail.

Now the OP is adding an even less fun element of e) playing as a low rep manager in a high rep team. This means players will basically play almost like they want to backstab their own manager. Manager reputation is kinda ****ed in FM, you win way too much of it way too quickly, as proven by the OP getting the Brazil job (???!!!) despite having no real success beforehand; but starting as Valencia manager with Sunday League reputation is asking for trouble. Players will play almost like a caricature of what Graeme Souness says about Paul Pogba - they won't give a **** about absolutely anything and get dismayed at the slightest hint of trouble. That's a recipe for a very very not fun game.

[herne79]

@noikeee  Please mind the language in this forum.

[CARRERA]

20 minutes ago, herne79 said:

There are some known UI glitches which really don't help.  Personally I think the whole "Team Fluidity" thing should just be removed from view - it was confusing during beta testing and remains confusing due to the similarity in naming conventions / descriptions.

Yeah, maybe it should just be removed completely. Properbly a few other things as well because all in all the whole tactic creation Is more as confusig for a new Player. And as someone earlier Said when i need to sub a youtube or read the Forums it cant be too intuitive. Especially if even the ingame help in terms of presets doesn’t help at all. If you chose city or Barca and tick „tiki-taka“ you will get sacked for sure. 

[Svenc]

3 hours ago, noikeee said:

FM19 is not really very fun at all, and I stopped playing FM altogether a while ago. It's a strange mix of

a) there's no "easy" clear way out to win as in previous games, ie no major exploits. 

Seems like the entire download communities didn't get that message yet.

[noikeee]

17 minutes ago, Svenc said:

Seems like the entire download communities didn't get that message yet.

There's still plug-and-play tactics but those seem to rely on heaps of tiny little advantages one on top of another rather than clear exploits, and only the very best plug-and-play tactics will give you undefeated seasons with a bit of luck. Wasn't quite this way in past FMs, when sometimes you just needed some pretty simple strategies to start performing above average.

In a way this is good, obviously SI wants a balanced game, not exploits all over - specially because when a huge exploit is on, it ruins the games of the people who want to play with the opposite strategy to the exploit. However keep in mind this is a game and games are meant to be fun. The problem here is not only the game is hard (which for most people isn't fun - winning generally feels more fun than losing, and the huge appeal of FM is to take little teams to do the impossible), the game also sucks at telling you why are you losing, it's so counter-intuitive in so many different things. If you go really really really in depth and read these forums everyday you can figure out why you're losing, but that's approaching a full-time work level of effort.

[Filke]

Game is ultra counter-intuitive, luckily this genre of game have very loyal fan base, if this happened to other genre game it would flop so fast.

[Armistice]

4 hours ago, CARRERA said:

Maybe this is a Bug then, or a failure of display. Strange in any way....

Very Fluid

 

Highly Structured

 

As you can see the Mentality changed from Positive (Very Fluid) to Attacking (Highly Structured). No other Settings Changed as you can see, but i guess you can recreate it anyway..

Hmm it could be because of the roles & duties on his side of the pitch? Maybe because he has a CM-D on his side to cover, he can become more aggressive than when he has a DLP-S.

[CARRERA]

5 minutes ago, Armistice said:

Hmm it could be because of the roles & duties on his side of the pitch? Maybe because he has a CM-D on his side to cover, he can become more aggressive than when he has a DLP-S.

No, you can check it if you are interested into more investigation. @herne79 said tho, that it is a visual glitch without having any impact.