Robson 07

Hi. Sorry to pop up again but I see its still not working. Just quickly on the advanced playmaker attack, if you notice that role/duty adds 'dribble more'. That's difficult right down the centre of the pitch and potentially straight into an opposing DM. Personally if using that it would at least be on a outer mid. I stopped replying earlier in thread as you were insistent that the your wingbacks should symmetrically attack to provide width. I think at the time you were playing on counter (don't know if you still are) but that will kill them condition wise. Those roles will go for the byline and you were setting them so deep. I still think at least one of them still needs to only get you so far up the pitch on one flank and I stand behind what i said earlier that the 4132 in not a formation to use on counter. That in itself will bring gaps as you're holding a lower line. I like fluid but get more wary around very fluid. I think its effective circumstantially but can be tricky to use with a base tactic. You can get too tight going forwards and you get countered more and more as you climb the mentalities.

I liked that article. Nice to see that site give England a break. I agree with the author though that it is refreshing to not only see England turn up to a tournament with a very clear idea on how they'll set up but further for that system to be something other than a rigid 442 or 4411. It would be good in so many ways for England to just have at least some small success (hopefully more) just to encourage the manager present and future that we can play progressive football and that's what the fans want to see, along with good old endeavour.

Being straight, personally I don't think 4132 is a counterattacking formation. My take is that you need wide players to get in behind the opponents advancing fullbacks to truly play on the counter. You can bend this game to do a lot of things mind you so I'm sure someone may disagree with that statement, its just my opinion. If you've got defensive cover down each side (a fullback and a wider mid operating more cautiously), plus two centre backs on defend I think your DM is bit more free than you believe he is.

Hi. I've had great success with a 4132_narrow in a save with Roma. A couple of things I did. On one side of midfield I was attacking but cautious on the other. I then flipped this around for my fullbacks. Basically the supporting fullback covering the more attacking wide mid. The other thing I did that I liked the results of was playing the DM on a support role. Made us more cohesive going forward. If you are getting a bit narrow don't be afraid to use a more aggressive mentality. Good luck with Valencia.

In the 2007-08 season I would say they attacked the majority of games at the structured end of shape. The formation is always hard to pin down because the wide players were attacking perhaps making their position starting position seem higher than it was on a chalkboard. Also when playing two strikers the 2nd striker invariably dropped on a support role. A 442 or a 4411 could also look like a 4231. This was the time when Ronaldo was becoming a powerhouse superstar that we see today. Such was his direct style and the pace of the forwards that Utd could go from defence to attack faster than just about anyone. There were a number of counterattacking goals scored but not necessarily as a result of Utd playing on what FM would deem as counter mentality. When playing, lets call it their European game, I would say it most resembled FM's 4123DM formation. This was United perhaps in Control mode and a different shape and style. My recollection is that this is when Park and Fletcher would come in. I always remember Park playing from the left actually because his game was so hard working that it allowed Evra to attack whilst Brown on the right did so a lot less as he was a converted centre half anyway. Fletcher equally just did a lot of selfless running up and down the middle. Sometimes Rooney, Ronaldo and Tevez switched positions. Sometimes Nani would swap flanks. I guess Carrick was the holder, always in position and breaking up play with interceptions. And although Carrick had great passing range of his own he tended to keep his game simple and just gave the ball to Scholes when he was in the side. By now Scholes was in his early 30's and arguably had peaked - I think Anderson had been signed as his long term heir - but he was still the real playmaker at Utd. That's my 2p.

The above part in the middle of your post confuses me a bit. You're asking questions about what suitable roles and playing styles might be yet seem to think you have mentality/shape down to pat. It baffles me as I don't see how one is separated from the other? How can you know how your mentality & shape are going to work - and seemingly be switched up - before you know the make up of the team and the team instructions?

Hey, great thread which throws up some interesting points. I really like the effort you clearly put into your 2nd post @Ron Wandle that's taken some time I suspect. Although its essentially one topic its hard to respond as you've picked up so many different facets. I did note that you talk about closing more/less as you attack/defend, Its worth remembering the tactic creator does some of that for you automatically as you change team mentality e.g. Attacking team mentality comes with more closing down by default. I think the game works with tactics set up to press and tactics which stand off a bit more. As has been noted, one isn't necessarily better than the other. My advice for what its worth is to go down one road and stick to it. I think if you change formations, press/don't press, and trying play too reactively that may bring its own problems. Particular when you consider there's more to football than pressing which is just one strategy within a wider tactical setup. In other you words, I try to not make things too complicated.

Along those lines @zlatanera yep. Maybe a debate on shape as that could leave them over exposed on that mentality but otherwise there was a lot of attacking intent, tempo, width etc. I know its a bit of a Fergie soundbite also to say that he always sent his sides out to win a game - and I also realise playing on Attack is neither a win or goalscoring button in FM - but his sides did have that forward playing intent, and a lot of the time. I just can't imagine one of his sides being told to play on "standard". Of course that last sentence begins to blur FM, the computer game, with his personality in a way that doesn't fully make sense but hopefully you know what I mean.

I know @herne79 highlighted exactly the same quote a couple of posts ago and I think I can see why. Had a good look at a number of posts on this forum this evening and I can why this thread was created. I know the game has some bend around how people interpret it but there is some wildly inconsistent stuff, even among regular or decorated posters when you start looking about. Some of it is unchallenged (maybe because it comes from a regular contributor?) and there's a lot of quite conflicting information, all of which must make very hard for someone new looking to learn the game. In many ways this thread is a good place to start and build from. More people should use it. My Roma tactic from before went from 4312 to 4132 but still on control-fluid with very few bells and whistles and I won the Champions League over the weekend with it. A big part I believe was not chopping and changing. Familiarity. Small adjustments, keep gelled and settled, have players learn the system. Come through the youth teams having been tutored and trained in the roles being used. Keep the dressing room happy and consistent results follow.

Quick scan through this thread and I can't see one post suggesting that Utd ever played on an Attacking team mentality. By this stage of his career Ferguson's team's had become more sophisticated especially in the Champions League, of course, and away against top four Prem League opponents. But there was still a lot of games when they just said, right we're Man Utd and you're going to cop it. The speed of their transition (to coin a trendy turn of phrase) was very quick with a young Rooney, Nani and Ronaldo. I'd definitely say there was room for an Attacking version in their tactical arsenal.

I think its all covered really so my point is nigh redundant. Just two small things: roles/ppms and team width. If you have players instructed to play wider or hug the line they are likely to deliver more crosses from the touchline, The same if your team is playing with a lot of width which comes automatically on aggressive mentalities. And I guess its tougher to connect with a low cross from the touchline. Unless it's almost a through ball in behind it should be cut out relatively easily, probably not beating the first man. Therefore if sticking to the 442 with small strikers perhaps try a different role on the wing, or a different crossing strategy such as whipped, or use one striker with a bit more presence.

Hi. I see where the above is coming from. I'd just add to that by saying you are playing the least compact Team Shape with Close Down Much More. I think if you want to defend with good pressure on the ball - and that formation can do that - then I'd suggest committing to a tighter shape where the players can support each other more readily with closing down.

Yah sure, pick your poison I guess. The option you chose was your one forward pressing four defenders. Your midfield won't press their back line at all as they are deeper, on structured and told to drop off (deeper line). So their back four had all day long to play out or just belt them up to the big man. If you are seeing lots of instances like this it may be the reason why, at least in the match you highlighted.

There may be something slightly off in the match engine that you are seeing. However I don't think you should have dropped off (much deeper d-line) with opposition playing a slow target man. The opposition may want to play it long to him and he'll give you aerial problems around your box, they'll be a lot of 2nd balls in your defensive area and he'll hold the ball up for others join. What a slow target man can't do is run off the shoulder of your last defender as he'll be slow. Therefore a higher line would be more suitable against such a player.

I don't believe that players holding the ball up is the only thing that instruction gives you. I think it will raise the individual mentality of the fullbacks very slightly. There was a skin you could get until a version or so ago that put a number in the individual mentality bar. That number increased for fullbacks and wingbacks when asked to overlap.