Mentoring On FM19

[Cleon]

This is taken from my blog https://teaandbusquets.com/blog/

I wrote about mentoring very briefly when Football Manager 2019 was first released and explained how it worked. But it still seems people are confused by it or don’t quite understand how they should use it. The main thing to remember is any changes you see will be a lot slower than previous versions of the game under the tutoring module. Tutoring was overpowered and really overturned making it easy to beat the ‘system’ and get amazing results in such a short space of time. Mentoring is a lot different in this regard, it’s not about min and maxing and it’s more of a slow burner in general.

So How Does It Work?

While the old tutoring system was more focused on a fixed set of rules, the new mentoring options are more organic and realistic. This is reflected in-game with suggestions via hints and tips. The game gives you much better feedback as to what affects personality adjustments and displays it to the user in a clear manner.

Players need to be training together to mentor one another, as well as spending time together off the training pitch. This means the players need to be in the same squad. You can no longer have a first team player, mentor a U18 player unless they are in the first team.

When trying to influence the players the game looks at the following things;

• Age of the potential influenced player
• Career first team appearances of the potential influenced player
• Difference in the club hierarchy between the two players
• Social group standing between the two players (i.e how compatible they are)

There isn't a specific age limit on mentoring. Age works in the same way as the other factors, they will impact how likely the player is to be influenced at that time.

If a player fills the criteria above, the more likely the influenced player is to have their personality skewed towards that of the mentoring player. If the player who is being mentored doesn’t fulfil any of the criteria at all, then there's no chance of a personality adjustment occurring. If there is a chance of a personality adjustment occurring then this chance is further boosted if they're in the same mentoring group and training unit.

Players can still be influenced by the team personality and by the personality of others in their social groups, just like on Football Manager 2018. You should take a look at the social groups and see which players are in the groups as you could find them being influenced positively or negatively by different personalities. It's unlikely your captain is going to be dragged down by other players at the club, but it's not impossible if the combination of scoring factors suggested the captain should be influenced by others.

Also new in Football Manager 2019 is the 'Welcome to club' function also now serves as a way of setting a piece of short-term one-on-one mentoring between a new signing and an established player.

Players can still pass Player Traits on as well, if the individual shares a similar position to those in the mentoring unit.

Mentoring is slower than the previous tutoring system. You should not expect to see an unprofessional player become professional overnight, or even over the course of a few short months.

Common Questions

If I signed Messi for Bournemouth, would he become a team leader or have a significant influence on training, for example?

There's no guarantee but under the right circumstances then yes he could. You’d be signing a world-class player and a genuine superstar, even if he is ageing.

It’s also worth noting that if a big named player returns to a club he started at and was at for many years then it's not impossible for him to likely have a bigger reputation than most at the club, meaning he could also have an immediate influence over training and dynamics.

If i have a young player with a resolute personality and he is in a mentoring group with older players that have a balanced or fairly professional personality can his personality become worse. For example could the player drop from resolute to balanced because of the players they are in a mentoring unit with?

Yes they can. It's more likely the influential players drag down the other players personalities. But again it comes down to the conditions of the mentoring unit, the influence the players have and so on. Size of the mentoring unit can also a play a part. So if you have good personality on some players but they don’t have an influential impact in a mentoring unit, you might want to think twice before adding him to it with undesired personality types.

This also applies to determination too.

If I make a mistake assigning mentoring groups, can I quickly haul someone out or disband the group (in previous FMs you couldn't break a tutoring relationship if you changed your mind).

Just click the red - next to the mentoring unit and it will disband the unit.

My players personality/determination has changed but the influential people in the mentoring units, all have much better personality/determination than the player who has been impacted. What would this be down to?

It could be down to the overall squad personality or it could be because of the social groups the players are in. All of those things will have a direct impact on personality attributes and its possible they can be altered by these methods. Mentoring isn’t the only way we can see personality changes.

Wait, so players can improve personality without mentoring? Just by having a more professional and/or ambitious squad for example?

That is correct yes. It can be altered either by the clubs dynamics or the welcome to the club feature.

Do I have control of Player Traits still and how they’re passed on via mentoring units?

You still can have control over Player Traits if that's what you want. Just put players who share the same positions in the same mentoring group and then you have a better chance of them being passed on, if the player has influence over the group.

It’s also worth noting Player Traits depend on a player's attributes and sometimes position. A player without suitable attributes will not be able to learn a certain Player Trait and some are only available in certain positions.

So it works the same way as learning a Player Trait via training? For example if I ask my defender to learn the ‘dictates tempo’ Player Trait my staff might tell me it's a bad idea and won’t work. But I can still learn it and the chances are it might fail. Mentoring units work the same and that the chances are, the Player Trait wouldn’t be passed on because of having attributes not suited for the trait and/or because of positions they play in on the pitch?

That’s it yeah.

Does mentoring affect social groups and the team hierarchy?

Indeed it does. Mentoring can influence Dynamics and on occasion social groups can have a similar impact on a player as Mentoring, although to a less degree.

I’ve probably missed a few other common questions but those are the ones I see on the forums or on social media regular.

How I use Mentoring

Every player that I sign, I always have a look at which player gets to ‘welcome’ them to the club. This is an important stage for me because I want to know if the person welcoming to the club, is a good fit for mentoring them via the welcoming feature.

Rafael and Fernando were both welcomed to the club by my striker, who is one of the clubs team leaders. I get these kind of messages quite often, showing its been a success. This is why it’s important to know the player who welcomes them to the club and the player coming into the club, to determine if it's a good match up or not.

Now on to creating actual mentoring units. There’s a lot of stuff I’ve seen flying around on social media and the forums were people think they must mentor everyone going. This isn’t true at all, in fact, I’d say I don’t mentor people that often really. At least not for the amount of players I have at the club, the actual number of people I put into mentoring units is limited as I’ll highlight below.

Another thing I see mentioned is people wanting to promote entire youth teams to the first team, just for the benefit of mentoring. Don’t do this, it’s a bit silly. Mentoring isn’t that powerful and it’s something that is considered long-term compared to tutoring. Before tutoring was this powerful tool that unrealistically allowed you to change personality in a few short months. Allowing you to turn unambitious players into model professionals in a very short amount of time. Forget this mindset and think of mentoring as part of everything overall and not the governing factor in everything.

Promoting everyone to the first team to be mentored is also very unrealistic and does have some implications. One of those implications is the training they get in the youth squads is actually more demanding from a workload perspective as the players can do more due to playing fewer games. This is reflected in the sessions and schedules. So technically the players would be doing less training by promoting them, as the game would think you planned on actually using them. This is why you should only promote those who you plan on using and giving game time to, or to take a closer look at specific players in general.

Another reason for not promoting everyone is actual match days. The youth team match days would likely be out of sync with the first team. Meaning they’d be losing training days because they’re on the first teams training schedule but still playing youth games (if you made them available that is) on a youth schedule. So any training that would take place on a youth game day wouldn’t happen for those playing in the youth game. Then on the senior teams match day, you don’t have training so the players wouldn’t be making up for it there either. So think wisely and weigh up the benefits of everything before being hasty and thinking promoting everyone would be a good idea and strategy. Because in truth, it wouldn’t and you’d be wasting possible training days.

When it comes to creating my mentoring units, I like to keep it really simple. There’s no big secret here or formula to try to figure out. Just do what feels right and logical for you. This might differ from what I do and that’s fair enough. All that matters is you are doing what suits you for the way you think about the game. And obviously understand what mentoring does, which is explained above.

I tend to keep to this system;

• Each unit consists of a maximum of 4 players.
• Each group has at least 1 player who has significant influence in the unit.
• Each group share similar positions to each other.

This allows me to control mentoring units more efficiently, as players in these groups are all similar and there is always someone they can learn off. Here is an example of a standard mentoring unit;

In this unit we can see that we have two significant influencers in the group and two players who have a light influence. What this should mean is, the two people with light influence shouldn’t impact the personality type of the significant ones. They also shouldn’t pass player traits onto them either. So in theory, unless something really drastic happens the only players who will be impacted in this unit are Didi and Renato.

Creating units requires careful planning though because if undesired personality types have a significant influence over a unit, then there's every chance they’ll drag players down to their level rather than making them better.

This one actually isn’t a unit I use, it’s one that I’ve just created to show you as an example. In this group there is no one with any real influence over the group. What this would mean is that most of the unit are all equal with the exception of the first player. I wouldn’t have high hopes for a unit like this because of the lack of a real influence. It would mean there would be barely any benefit to mentoring because no one is strong enough to take control of the unit.

Or it could mean one of the average players might be able to influence all the other ones.That can be a dangerous thing if the players have undesired player traits or personality types. Those would be the likely two scenarios from creating a mentoring group similar to this.

Check the personality type of the players who have the most influence inside a unit. If it doesn’t look like there is not much benefit to creating a unit based on personality then don’t do it. Don’t mentor people just because you think you have to. Also take note of any player traits a player has because there’s a high chance these could also be passed on. Again if you add players to this unit who perhaps these player traits would be a bad thing, don’t do it.

If anyone has any further questions, I’d be happy to answer them.

[herne79]

Great insight.  Will pin this once it starts to drop down the forum a bit.

[Jean0987654321]

One of things that irks me about this mechanism is that it takes a LONG time to improve a player's mental attributes with this gimmick. My backup striker Nico Williams is a part of the unit and it look like 3 seasons for his mental attributes to increase significantly. At the very least, it is working...

[herne79]

2 hours ago, Jean0987654321 said:

One of things that irks me about this mechanism is that it takes a LONG time to improve a player's mental attributes with this gimmick. My backup striker Nico Williams is a part of the unit and it look like 3 seasons for his mental attributes to increase significantly. At the very least, it is working...

Mentoring has no direct impact on mental attributes (except Determination).  Mental attributes improve over time and with training, not Mentoring.

[Jean0987654321]

6 hours ago, herne79 said:

Mentoring has no direct impact on mental attributes (except Determination).  Mental attributes improve over time and with training, not Mentoring.

Ahh...well, it did work on improving his Determination at least. He had shocking determination at the beginning... :D

[Gee_Simpson]

Can determination be increased through training or can only mentoring improve it? 

[zlatanera]

2 hours ago, Gee_Simpson said:

Can determination be increased through training or can only mentoring improve it? 

Mentoring and just being in a squad with more determined players, I believe. You can also get a one-off "x personality has significantly improved / worsened due to recent off-field events"

[sunchymeno9]

this is a really good guide.  well done buddy!

[ParanoidBuddha]

This would be the group:




The fact that Ronaldo has a bigger estimated influence means that Kean has more probabilities to get PPM from him than from Mandzukic? I really don't want he acquires Mandzukic's PPMs as ''argue with officials'' for example. Then wbe better to put Ronaldo and 2 youngsters? 
Is possible that the young player loses his PPM with mentoring?

Edited March 26, 2019 by ParanoidBuddha

[zlatanera]

24 minutes ago, ParanoidBuddha said:

This would be the group:




The fact that Ronaldo has a bigger estimated influence means that Kean has more probabilities to get PPM from him than from Mandzukic? I really don't want he acquires Mandzukic's PPMs as ''argue with officials'' for example. Then wbe better to put Ronaldo and 2 youngsters? 
Is possible that the young player loses his PPM with mentoring?

1. Yes, influence is everything - from all I understand from Cleon's mentoring guide this is the case.

2. Probably yeah

3. I don't think they can lose moves, just gain new ones.

[Marcusme1981]

@Cleon, Would you mind if I translate this guide and I post it to Fmsite with a mention and a link to this post??

[Brian]

Does this change the way of tutoring? Last year you tackled Personality in the U19 and almost before the season ends you have a U19 with very good Personality's. 

For example, I have a U19 with good potential but almost everybody has Balanced as Personality and 50% under 10 Determination. Does this effect there training really big until they get promoted and getting in the first team with good Personality's or can you just train them and tackle it later on? 

In a short question: Is Personality and Determination as important as last year? If yes, how to tackle it as soon as possible? 

[ajt]

thanks a lot, great info

[Cleon]

On 02/04/2019 at 22:38, Rooks said:

Does this change the way of tutoring? Last year you tackled Personality in the U19 and almost before the season ends you have a U19 with very good Personality's. 

For example, I have a U19 with good potential but almost everybody has Balanced as Personality and 50% under 10 Determination. Does this effect there training really big until they get promoted and getting in the first team with good Personality's or can you just train them and tackle it later on? 

In a short question: Is Personality and Determination as important as last year? If yes, how to tackle it as soon as possible? 

Sorry only just seen this.

Everything matters if you want it to but not one thing alone is the deciding factor. It's the accumulation of everything that is the most important. You can't really isolate stuff anymore, as everything is intertwined and works together. In your example, how you manage this comes down to you and what you'd like. You could tackle this, later on, his current personality of balanced isn't bad, there are better personality types but balanced is bang middle of the road so it's not a total disaster. 

[Bunkerossian]

So, what should I do with 16 or 17 year-olds that are in no way ready for first team, but have potential? Wait until they turn at least 18, and send them to the main team to be mentored, or...?

A more straight-forward version of the above: does mentoring matter more than the quality of youth training?

[Cleon]

10 hours ago, Bunkerossian said:

So, what should I do with 16 or 17 year-olds that are in no way ready for first team, but have potential? Wait until they turn at least 18, and send them to the main team to be mentored, or...?

A more straight-forward version of the above: does mentoring matter more than the quality of youth training?

I thought I explained this in the article above?

Quote

Another thing I see mentioned is people wanting to promote entire youth teams to the first team, just for the benefit of mentoring. Don’t do this, it’s a bit silly. Mentoring isn’t that powerful and it’s something that is considered long-term compared to tutoring. Before tutoring was this powerful tool that unrealistically allowed you to change personality in a few short months. Allowing you to turn unambitious players into model professionals in a very short amount of time. Forget this mindset and think of mentoring as part of everything overall and not the governing factor in everything.

Promoting everyone to the first team to be mentored is also very unrealistic and does have some implications. One of those implications is the training they get in the youth squads is actually more demanding from a workload perspective as the players can do more due to playing fewer games. This is reflected in the sessions and schedules. So technically the players would be doing less training by promoting them, as the game would think you planned on actually using them. This is why you should only promote those who you plan on using and giving game time to, or to take a closer look at specific players in general.

Another reason for not promoting everyone is actual match days. The youth team match days would likely be out of sync with the first team. Meaning they’d be losing training days because they’re on the first teams training schedule but still playing youth games (if you made them available that is) on a youth schedule. So any training that would take place on a youth game day wouldn’t happen for those playing in the youth game. Then on the senior teams match day, you don’t have training so the players wouldn’t be making up for it there either. So think wisely and weigh up the benefits of everything before being hasty and thinking promoting everyone would be a good idea and strategy. Because in truth, it wouldn’t and you’d be wasting possible training days.

Not everyone needs to be mentored. If you want players to develop then they really need to be in the relevant squads. If you have someone who is the first team at a young age then you should be giving them game time. If not then they're better off in the youths where they'll get the game time needed and will have a higher training workload. The youth teams can handle a higher workload for training due to playing fewer games and this is reflected in the youth schedules.

Also, nothing matters more than one thing, it's all cumulative and everything plays a part.

[yolixeya]

On 13/03/2019 at 11:56, Cleon said:

Every player that I sign, I always have a look at which player gets to ‘welcome’ them to the club. This is an important stage for me because I want to know if the person welcoming to the club, is a good fit for mentoring them via the welcoming feature.

1. Do you ever choose not to welcome player at the club?

2. Is there a possibility to chose what player welcomes new signing?

[Cleon]

11 minutes ago, yolixeya said:

1. Do you ever choose not to welcome player at the club?

2. Is there a possibility to chose what player welcomes new signing?

1 - Yes frequently, this is why I check to see if its a good match or not.

2 - Not really, the game selects one of the team leaders/captains

[gavinski33]

31 minutes ago, Cleon said:

2 - Not really, the game selects one of the team leaders/captains

Just ignore the suggestion on the news screen and go into your squad. Pick a player, Interaction>Ambassadorial Duties>Welcome new player. Might work or he might say he can't be ar*ed and get such and such to do it

[yolixeya]

1 hour ago, gavinski33 said:

Just ignore the suggestion on the news screen and go into your squad. Pick a player, Interaction>Ambassadorial Duties>Welcome new player. Might work or he might say he can't be ar*ed and get such and such to do it

I will  try that next time I sign someone.  Now I'm glad I asked. So you can confirm that it works, at least sometimes?

[gavinski33]

Yeah, I signed 4 or 5 young lads this pre-season and picked a different player to welcome each of them. Think there was only one that got narky about it. 

[reozeno]

Hi, great guide. I have a question. How important is  player’s position in this matter?

I have Player who is team leader in hierarchy (Vice Cap), with great personality(Model Professionals) and he’s quite old (36).

but he’s a goalkeeper is it possible to just let him mentor defenders/midfielder/strikers to pass personality?

Or the player in the group MUST be in same position?

Thanks!

[Cleon]

13 minutes ago, reozeno said:

Hi, great guide. I have a question. How important is  player’s position in this matter?

I have Player who is team leader in hierarchy (Vice Cap), with great personality(Model Professionals) and he’s quite old (36).

but he’s a goalkeeper is it possible to just let him mentor defenders/midfielder/strikers to pass personality?

Or the player in the group MUST be in same position?

Thanks!

Positions matter more for passing traits on. But just for personality changes, then the impact on the mentoring unit the player has is far more important than positions played. 

[Sharkn20]

This is really good thanks!

 

One more question, what about those 15 / 16 years old with high potential but 4 or 5 Determination? Is it worth to promote them and get them in a Mentoring unit to increase that Determination? Or the Character of the whole Senior / U21 / U19 squads will increase that Determination too while they are down playing / training with the kids of their age?

Edited April 28, 2019 by Sharkn20

[Cleon]

6 hours ago, Sharkn20 said:

This is really good thanks!

 

One more question, what about those 15 / 16 years old with high potential but 4 or 5 Determination? Is it worth to promote them and get them in a Mentoring unit to increase that Determination? Or the Character of the whole Senior / U21 / U19 squads will increase that Determination too while they are down playing / training with the kids of their age?

I spoke about this in the article and in the replies a couple above this one. There is a downside to promoting players who you aren't going to use in the relevant squads.

[Jean0987654321]

On 27/04/2019 at 20:00, Sharkn20 said:

This is really good thanks!

 

One more question, what about those 15 / 16 years old with high potential but 4 or 5 Determination? Is it worth to promote them and get them in a Mentoring unit to increase that Determination? Or the Character of the whole Senior / U21 / U19 squads will increase that Determination too while they are down playing / training with the kids of their age?

It's all on you, I think. For me, I usually promote some guys with low determination and let him play his games in the reserves/U19. As @Cleon says, there is a downside to doing that but it'll be up to you if you think the positives outweigh the negatives...

[Cleon]

On 30/04/2019 at 03:27, Jean0987654321 said:

It's all on you, I think. For me, I usually promote some guys with low determination and let him play his games in the reserves/U19. As @Cleon says, there is a downside to doing that but it'll be up to you if you think the positives outweigh the negatives...

I know its each to their own but in this case, the benefit doesn't outweigh the negatives. You are losing a lot of training in the critical training range of 15-17 year old for the sake of a few determination points, which you can do later on no issues at all. All you're doing by promoting straight away is taking a big gamble and sacrificing training/development. You have to remember that players in the youth teams have higher workloads so do more training naturally with the schedules they have. As they are designed to be more intense due to playing fewer games. You are missing out on all of this and getting no benefit in return for skipping it.

[WillHoward42]

On 01/05/2019 at 07:54, Cleon said:

I know its each to their own but in this case, the benefit doesn't outweigh the negatives. You are losing a lot of training in the critical training range of 15-17 year old for the sake of a few determination points, which you can do later on no issues at all. All you're doing by promoting straight away is taking a big gamble and sacrificing training/development. You have to remember that players in the youth teams have higher workloads so do more training naturally with the schedules they have. As they are designed to be more intense due to playing fewer games. You are missing out on all of this and getting no benefit in return for skipping it.

I have always brought up players to the first team that I feel are stars of the future. With the inclination they would develop better with higher quality players to train with. Is this actually a negative affect? Everyone under the age of 18 will improve more in the U18s?

Also assuming it is important to get a good coaching base at this level as well as your first team?

[Gee_Simpson]

7 hours ago, WillHoward42 said:

I have always brought up players to the first team that I feel are stars of the future. With the inclination they would develop better with higher quality players to train with. Is this actually a negative affect? Everyone under the age of 18 will improve more in the U18s?

Also assuming it is important to get a good coaching base at this level as well as your first team?

If you can't guarantee them much game time before 18 then yes, keeping them in the 1st team will most likely have a detrimental effect. 

[dking]

Great guide.

I'm not using any mentoring groups and in every save I have played (always start at LFC) quite a few players rapidly lose determination for no apparent reason.

Does this mean I'm forced to use mentoring groups?  (I've tried experimenting but always the same out come of players losing determination, no matter who is in the group i.e. Salah , Firmino, vvd in different groups)

[WillHoward42]

On 12/06/2019 at 11:25, dking said:

Great guide.

I'm not using any mentoring groups and in every save I have played (always start at LFC) quite a few players rapidly lose determination for no apparent reason.

Does this mean I'm forced to use mentoring groups?  (I've tried experimenting but always the same out come of players losing determination, no matter who is in the group i.e. Salah , Firmino, vvd in different groups)

I would imagine that some players are being affected by other players personalities in the team?

Yeah menotoring could help with this.

For example, if you have a first team full of positive/determined personalities.... Id think it be quite rare for a player to decline themselves (that's my conclusion)

Also, staff/coaches with poor personalities could become a factor?

I'd need an expert to clear this up... but this the rule I play by.

[FM_Prospect]

I have this young newgen Jack Atkin from my latest Youth Intake, he has decent determination at 14 but an Unambitious personality, should i promote him to the Senior team even tho he isn't going to get game time and mentor him there, or leave him in the under 18's to train and develop as stated in the OP?...all help appreciated!.

Edited July 10, 2019 by FM_Prospect

[kingjericho]

On 10/07/2019 at 05:28, FM_Prospect said:

I have this young newgen Jack Atkin from my latest Youth Intake, he has decent determination at 14 but an Unambitious personality, should i promote him to the Senior team even tho he isn't going to get game time and mentor him there, or leave him in the under 18's to train and develop as stated in the OP?...all help appreciated!.

What I am doing with similar cases in my U19 squad is leaving them there until a later age (17/18/19) and when they are nearer the first squad ability, I promote them and only then I start the mentoring. Bear in mind the negative characteristics can change in a single season so it's not urgent to mentor them immediately.

[bakaloreno]

hello.

 

i have a young left back with 13 det and he is balanced.

 

tried to mentor him with 3 expirienced players with very good personalities and around 17 det.

for few months now, there are no changes. why is that? what could it possibly be?

[Seb Wassell]

On 03/08/2019 at 15:56, bakaloreno said:

hello.

 

i have a young left back with 13 det and he is balanced.

 

tried to mentor him with 3 expirienced players with very good personalities and around 17 det.

for few months now, there are no changes. why is that? what could it possibly be?

What were their respective "Estimated influences on group"? If they were all a similar level it becomes less likely for mentor and mentee to link up.

It is also worth noting that mentoring takes time. A lot more time than tutoring did. Initial changes could take 3-6 months, full personality shifts 2+ years. 

[AlexJames]

Generally I like the idea of Mentoring, but I wish I knew more about the specific benefits and that players inherit traits before I started. I created mentoring groups based on position, as this made logical sense to me. In one midfield group I added 2 first team mids (my captain who I play as CMS and a CMD) with a younger prospect and young regen (both natural CMAs). My captain obviously has significant influence on the group, and a player trait of "comes deep to get ball". As a result, all 3 other players in this group now have the trait "comes deep to get ball". This has subsequently impacted my tactics as occasionally I play 3 of these players together in a 4-5-1, and all 3 now come deep to get ball. My intention was for the younger players to inherit some of the leadership/ determination and technical skills of the more senior players, but I feel having them all inherit the same traits has now had a detrimental effect on my team approach.

Similarly, my young striker has managed to inherit the "tries to beat the offside trap" trait from my backup - but more senior - forward. This has resulted in my previously dangerously fast young striker to constantly be offside (as is the senior player, when he plays). In one game he was caught offside 14 times! Side note, if anyone has any tactical advice on how to stop strikers with this trait continuously being offside (more direct play? pass into space? etc.?) I would be forever grateful.

Recently I've been toying with the idea of bringing in a veteran forward with the mentality of "Perfectionist" as a Mentor for my fairly young group of forwards. Is anyone able to provide any advice on what effect this may have on my players? I thought possibly the younger players might inherit some of his mentals - which is where his value lies - but it sounds like this is not the case?

[herne79]

18 hours ago, AlexJames said:

I thought possibly the younger players might inherit some of his mentals - which is where his value lies - but it sounds like this is not the case?

The only "Mental" attribute he may pass along is Determination.  No other visible attributes will be affected.  Mentoring is about influencing personality (and Traits) and Determination is the only "Mental" attribute which can affect personality.

[crooy3]

When we speak about mentoring, which Personality types I should look at while searching for a good mentor?

Edited August 17, 2019 by crooy3

[yolixeya]

5 hours ago, crooy3 said:

When we speak about mentoring, which Personality types I should look at while searching for a good mentor?

Model citizen, perfectionist, model proffesional, professional, resolute, driven, resilient etc.

[Fritz13]

Saw a new personality for one of my new youth team - Fickle 

[Vilmar]

Have had 2 of those. 

[Jean0987654321]

On 17/08/2019 at 06:21, Fritz13 said:

Saw a new personality for one of my new youth team - Fickle 

Saw that too. Immediately put him in one of my mental groups. Hopefully, he gets that personality out

[godzilu]

Leaving aside the maybes and ifs, did anyone crack the new mentoring system? I was a martial artist in the previous tutoring system, but I am not sure it works as I want in the new one. I am not expecting immediate fireworks, but I am not sure I am seeing any positive results worth mentioning, after I read this thread and other threads with mentoring advice. 

I am testing now the second and third team, kept only the high potential guys, released all the low det/no pro/perf/model guys, and purchased tons of perf and pros, awful stats, but brilliant attitude. Not sure how will it work, we shall see in 12 months. I wrote down in the name PERF*18 if the guy is Perfectionist with 18 determination, or PRO*15, or just 12 if it has no positive attitude, and I will be able to check the evolution easily.

Examples of evolution. http://prntscr.com/ozdtx6 - Grigore and Nedelcu lost 1 DETERMINATION point, they have 14 now, but are Fairly Professional which is an improvement. But I expected to at least keep their initial determination, and also improve their mentality, given the fact that Culio is a perfectionist with 17 DET, and the leader of the team. Grigore and Nedelcu were both purchased last year so their initial influence was zero. This happened in 1 year.

The result is terrible from my point of view, if a Team Leader with 17 determination and a perfectionist is not capable to at least keep the initial determination of the kids, since the kids started new in the team.

Edited August 29, 2019 by godzilu

[herne79]

11 hours ago, godzilu said:

Leaving aside the maybes and ifs, did anyone crack the new mentoring system? I was a martial artist in the previous tutoring system, but I am not sure it works as I want in the new one. I am not expecting immediate fireworks, but I am not sure I am seeing any positive results worth mentioning, after I read this thread and other threads with mentoring advice. 

I am testing now the second and third team, kept only the high potential guys, released all the low det/no pro/perf/model guys, and purchased tons of perf and pros, awful stats, but brilliant attitude. Not sure how will it work, we shall see in 12 months. I wrote down in the name PERF*18 if the guy is Perfectionist with 18 determination, or PRO*15, or just 12 if it has no positive attitude, and I will be able to check the evolution easily.

Examples of evolution. http://prntscr.com/ozdtx6 - Grigore and Nedelcu lost 1 DETERMINATION point, they have 14 now, but are Fairly Professional which is an improvement. But I expected to at least keep their initial determination, and also improve their mentality, given the fact that Culio is a perfectionist with 17 DET, and the leader of the team. Grigore and Nedelcu were both purchased last year so their initial influence was zero. This happened in 1 year.

The result is terrible from my point of view, if a Team Leader with 17 determination and a perfectionist is not capable to at least keep the initial determination of the kids, since the kids started new in the team.

All you are doing here really is trying to treat Mentoring the same way as Tutoring.  So instead of doing one on one Tutoring, all you've done is try to give two young players the same "Tutor".

Mentoring is not Tutoring.  Whilst it may have a similar goal (improving personality) there are other aspects to consider.  Your squad profile for example can still influence players even if you have Mentoring groups set up.  Your two players lost 1 point in Determination - how does that compare with the rest of your squad?  But at the same time their personalities did actually "improve", so Mentoring is (probably) having a positive impact.

Team Dynamics and squad personality also influence things, so Mentoring can't be viewed in isolation - even if that's how we used to view Tutoring.

[godzilu]

18 minutes ago, herne79 said:

All you are doing here really is trying to treat Mentoring the same way as Tutoring.  So instead of doing one on one Tutoring, all you've done is try to give two young players the same "Tutor".

Mentoring is not Tutoring.  Whilst it may have a similar goal (improving personality) there are other aspects to consider.  Your squad profile for example can still influence players even if you have Mentoring groups set up.  Your two players lost 1 point in Determination - how does that compare with the rest of your squad?  But at the same time their personalities did actually "improve", so Mentoring is (probably) having a positive impact.

Team Dynamics and squad personality also influence things, so Mentoring can't be viewed in isolation - even if that's how we used to view Tutoring.

 

So the squad matters more than the tutor, if the determination can decrease in a situation where a tutor has big determination and he is a perfectionist. I already presumed that, and sold all low determination/bad mentality first team players even if they had better stats and got myself perfectionists and professionals. The average determination in my first season was 13-14, so probably that brought down the determination of the players.

We shall see how it works, any system has a break point, I just have to find it. The second and youth team are now filled only with pros and perfs + a few low mental stats but great potential players, I will see how it works out in one year, since virtually all the players in those teams were purchased this summer, so they should start on equal footing. 

Too many generalities and ifs and buts in this mentoring for my taste  All the other systems are pure math and easy to break, training, tactics, players, but this little annoying and so important thing.

Question. The youth team has a mentoring menu http://prntscr.com/ozl1a9 - but clicking on it does nothing. Am I missing something?

Edited August 30, 2019 by godzilu

[herne79]

1 hour ago, godzilu said:

So the squad matters more than the tutor, if the determination can decrease in a situation where a tutor has big determination and he is a perfectionist.

1) There are no "Tutors".  Only Mentors.

2) The squad does not matter "more".  But it can have an influence.

1 hour ago, godzilu said:

All the other systems are pure math and easy to break, training, tactics, players, but this little annoying and so important thing.

You're trying to break it down into 1+1=2.  It doesn't work like that.  Different aspects (Mentoring, squad personality, Dynamics) can all have an influence, but each of those influences may have more or less impact on different players based on a variety of factors such as (but not limited to) age, personality, squad standing, integration within the team (ref. your captain welcoming a new signing).

1 hour ago, godzilu said:

The average determination in my first season was 13-14, so probably that brought down the determination of the players.

That probably did have a significant impact in this particular case.  In other cases it may or may not have a similar impact.

The system's designed to treat players as we might do in real life and people in real life aren't robots.  So instead of trying to crack the system, just set things up in what you feel might be a sensible way and see how things pan out.  Sometimes it'll give what you hope, sometimes it won't - but that's ok because that's realistic.

[godzilu]

1. Ok, pardon me, it's mentor, still locked on the previous FM   

2. The squad does not matter "more".  Who matters more? When? Why? 

3. Math can deal with multiple factors, so it's not a question of may or may not, but what influences whom and which features most in what situations. That's how you break a system. 1+1 is elementary algebra.

IE: In the situation I posted screens, 2 new players purchased in a team ( so they entered the freshman dynamics group ) with an average of 13-14 Determination and with zero fame,  were influenced by their mentor, whom was the captain and leader of the team, only in terms of mentality, because the team influence was higher in terms of determination.

If you pin down multiple such events, you will reach a conclusion that will allow you to pinpoint exactly what you want to do, with no mays and may nots, and what works when.

4. Yes, probably it had an effect, but if I may, the reason I asked what kind of experience people had with mentoring is to find out specifics  FM doesn't simulate real life, it does it partially, because else we could not make a tactic that breaks almost everything (yes, we will not defeat Manchester City 10 out of 10 if the players have 100 max ability, but you get the point), we could not turn a minnow into a global giant, we could not have a bullet proof training system that gives great (not perfect) results, we could not have a team where injuries barely happen, etc.

FM allows me to see things a manager cannot see in real life, it's just a great game. Also, FM is based on pure math, starts from 0 and 1. So yes, FM is all about math.

I already know that different situations and positions give different outcomes, I am interested in specific examples if someone tried to keep a journal as I just started to develop a bullet proof mentoring strategy.

Nevertheless, thank you 

Edited August 30, 2019 by godzilu

[godzilu]

Side note. As I said, I released all low det/mental attributes from youth team, kept only the high potential ones and bough around 15 Perfectionists and Professionals with 15+ Det. In the first 30 days, one of the high potential players gained 1 point of Determination. http://prntscr.com/ozosfc

Supposition. Based on this and the previous incident with the loss of 1 DET point, I'd say that young(???) people in a squad slowly tend to go up or down to the average determination in the specific squad. This effect is stronger than the individual tutoring from a mentor, no matter what status he has in the squad. Also, stronger mentalities are affected less negatively. 

Supposition will be confirmed or denied in maximum 3 seasons because I will be able to check all second and third team players who don't use mentoring at all. Probably a month of real time  

PS: That's what I'd like to see, instead of it may or may not happen. Facts pro or against mentoring strategies. 

EDIT: It seems that mentoring is less powered than the team influence, because 4 players increased determination (3 in no mentoring groups) in 60 days, without being mentored by anybody, while the mentored ones, even if they are young, seem to be frozen. Age are 24, 24, 25 and 16 or so. Also, 2 of those, aged 24 and 25 lost status from Professional to Resolute. I underline, no mentoring.

So it seems that mentoring has much less influence on players than just being in the squad, to the point that it seems to be obsolete, because even if you mentor a player with 2 superpowered heroes, his stats seem to be affected more by the group than the individuals. Of course, multiple tests are required, but as it seems, it doesn't look useful. 

Edited August 30, 2019 by godzilu

[godzilu]

Update. 4th of November, more or less 3-4 months 

In the youth team 6+ players with determination under the Average Youth Det had their DET increase 1 point, while 2 players with 19 DET lost 1 point, they are 18 DET. I stopped counting after 6, probably most of the players under the average DET had an increase of DET. I should write down their personalities too to see if there is any shifting. If this is also true, than this is more important than mentoring, and easier to cheat the system. Buy high DET, low stats, great mentality cheap players, throw them in the youth team, and look how DET and mentality grows. Rinse and repeat, sell them if they lose stats, get news ones. 

I just had an idea  I will try to buy cheap 30+ years old players with big determination and great mentality and throw them in the youth team.  They should influence the youngsters more, since they are older. If it works, which I suppose it will, bye bye the new awesome mentoring system that in reality sucks cause you can't really plan for the forthcoming period of time.

Update. 6th of November
I improved the details in the name. My youth team, talented players: http://prntscr.com/p01rc5
Example: 19.s Dragomir 10-1-fp-rs - 19 = u19 team, s=striker, 10=initial determination, -1=increased determination to 11. If it's -3, it's 13, so on, but I will change this to +-1 lump figure, FP = he was fairly professiona, but he changed to rs=realist in about 3 months. No mentoring, just the influence of team mates.
As it can be seen, a few months in a team with determined players is much better than mentoring in the first team, which practically did nothing.

fl	Fairly Loyal
b	Balanced
rs	Resolute
lh	Light Hearted
fp	Fairly Professional
fd	Fairly Determined
d	Driven
fa	Fairly Ambitious
t	Temperamental
rl	Realist
s	Spirited

As it can be seen, some PRO* players lost professionalism status.  It seems perfectionists don't or can't lose perfectionist status. I repeat, there was no mentoring involved. In the first team, where I mentor the players, there are virtually zero results in the same period of time so I don't have anything to show even if I have about 5 groups with highly influential players trying to change young players. Ergum, mentoring seems to be a useless system not worth to spend time with.

In January, I will move 25+ years old perfectionist players from second team to the youth team and see how it ends up in the summer.

*** PRO and PERF players in the youth team are all small potential players I just purchased to improve determination average and professionalism status. 

Edited August 31, 2019 by godzilu

[Seb Wassell]

@godzilu

There's an assumption here that mentoring and squad personality changes are separate. They're not. Personality shifts can occur with or without mentoring for a variety of reasons following many different in-game stimuli. Mentoring is simply a tool that allows you to take control of one of these stimuli and encourage a specific shift. With some exceptions, mentoring is a gradual process, as are personality shifts on the whole.