FM16 - First thoughts on the early disclosures.

[Hairycull]

Realistic injuries isn't just animation driven - the whole system is improved. I don't know how much I can discuss but it's definitely far more than a cosmetic improvement.

The injury system is the decider for me buying the game or not.

I realise you cant say much but is it possible you can say whether or not a higher percentage of injuries will be sustained during training compared to the current setup where it seems like 90% of injuries are occurring during matches? Also are we still going to see a lot of 'red' injuries during matches that dont result in any injury after the game?

[Bobby_Zamora]

I'm happy they chose to improve the earlier game -- I think we are all expecting a fine tuned engine, PaulC -- than just throw a bunch of new features in.

If I could go to SI and code a new AI for the transfer system.. hihi

[Dagenham_Dave]

I realise you cant say much but is it possible you can say whether or not a higher percentage of injuries will be sustained during training compared to the current setup where it seems like 90% of injuries are occurring during matches?

The vast majority of injuries I get (on FM15), which isn't all that many comparatively speaking, come from training rather than in-game.

[kefalo84]

We're not though, compare the FM15 visuals with those from FM09 & you will see a huge improvements plus FM15 was the first year that SI used motion capture animations so I anticipate that the 3D animations can only continue to improve over the coming years.

Out of interest what graphics card do you have on the system you use to play FM?

GTX-980 and yes i am talking about something similar to PES or FIFA because that would be an improvement. Half of stuff presented for 2016 i wont even use(fantasy draft) and it seems they spent more time worrying about transitioning to mobile games(iPads) then improving the actual PC game. This is the FIRST time I am complaining about FM and I've been buying it and playing it since 2005.

[mchbitil]

For myself, I've clocked in over 1,100 hours to FM15 so i'm only looking for little changes. Most of the game is solid now. That said my big bugbear is the column views. Trying to customise the squad, matchday and tactics screen is a nightmare. Adding, resizing and moving columns causes some to disappear or get wildly stretched. Sort that and I'm a happy camper. Scout filtering by player role optimal stats would be great too.

disappearing columns should be fixed of course, but on the other hand this is not something that should have taken them a year.. or cost us $50.

The problem is that even if they fixed disappearing columns, there will be some other UI bugs that will end up not fixed till FM17.

[Guest]

GTX-980 and yes i am talking about something similar to PES or FIFA because that would be an improvement. Half of stuff presented for 2016 i wont even use(fantasy draft) and it seems they spent more time worrying about transitioning to mobile games(iPads) then improving the actual PC game. This is the FIRST time I am complaining about FM and I've been buying it and playing it since 2005.

That's great, what about the majority of FM'ers who are using integrated Intel HD graphics or much lower specification dedicated graphics?

FM is in a strange position of not being a gamers game so the instances of mid/high end hardware is much lower than other game's demographics, for many people the only game they have on their PC, Laptop or Mac will be FM & for those on Windows based system that can mean they are using a work or study laptop that is not kitted out for gaming or are still playing FM on a system they bought over 5 years ago & I assume that that group will want to use th 3D match view.

I'd love SI to reach the level of fidelity seen in FIFA or PES but I understand that because of the FM consumer group as a whole such a move might not appear commercially appealing, hopefully everyone who plays FM leaves the data collection function active so that SI get an accurate picture of what systems their customers are using to play FM & how they are using them

[Dagenham_Dave]

So, I've just seen the video about the 'goal highlights package'.

Can someone in the know explain what exactly is different about this? You can get a goals highlights package in the current game, and it's been there for the last couple of versions. I was hoping this was going to be the ability to view goals from other games during your own game, but it appears to just be the ability to view them in one package at the end, Which you can do now anyway.

[Guest]

I've just watch it & unfortunately I can't quite figure out what's going on either, those videos really would benefit from having a voiceover.

[roykela]

Edit:

Never mind. Found it.

[BoxToBox]

Where's this goals highlights package vid?

[roykela]

Where's this goals highlights package vid?

Here it is.

[BoxToBox]

Here it is.

Cheers mate!

[Just-Wool]

So, I've just seen the video about the 'goal highlights package'.

Can someone in the know explain what exactly is different about this? You can get a goals highlights package in the current game, and it's been there for the last couple of versions. I was hoping this was going to be the ability to view goals from other games during your own game, but it appears to just be the ability to view them in one package at the end, Which you can do now anyway.

Can you see a package of all games in one highlight at the moment? I know you can see the goals in each match individually.

[Dagenham_Dave]

Can you see a package of all games in one highlight at the moment?

Yes you can.

[Spedding]

So, I've just seen the video about the 'goal highlights package'.

Can someone in the know explain what exactly is different about this? You can get a goals highlights package in the current game, and it's been there for the last couple of versions. I was hoping this was going to be the ability to view goals from other games during your own game, but it appears to just be the ability to view them in one package at the end, Which you can do now anyway.

Going by what miles has answered on twitter it's not just goals it's showing more like the key moments goals saves in each match

[BoxToBox]

It might provide an interesting window into how other teams tactics are working, having a look at the key plays they build.

[Dagenham_Dave]

Going by what miles has answered on twitter it's not just goals it's showing more like the key moments goals saves in each match

Which you can also view in FM15. You already have the choice to view just the goals from all the other games, or the highlights. Seriously, am I the only person who's actually used this on FM15?

[Just-Wool]

Yes you can.

Cool, not seen that before. Something new you learn every day. Just figured out how to do it as well. Fun times.

[Lawlore]

A thought on the early disclosures: they were a bad call, marketing-wise. They were the wrong things highlighted at the wrong time, in the wrong way.

Two months from release, the people who preorder the game are likely to be those who have already played previous versions and probably don't need much of a nudge to buy the new version. To even access that page, they'd have to either be deliberately looking at the FM site already, be in this forum, or be following someone FM-related on Twitter- and a casual, new customer to be snagged, isn't doing any of those things- it's us forum-dwellers and would-be forum dwellers who just don't post here. Someone who hasn't played the game before strikes me as unlikely to preorder it two months before release.

Then, with that audience in mind, the very first thing mentioned is... the Sims-esque Manager on the Touchline. Which is then shown in the very second picture (and video) to make no obvious difference whatsoever. This is the very key feature, the first thing that SI wants to say about FM16? Really?

And the second feature mentioned is what appears to be a multiplayer-only one, immediately cutting out the interest for a massive portion of the fanbase.

I could go on and pick apart every part of the post, but you get the idea. That's why, when you get to something that actually IS of some interest to the majority of people already playing the game (namely, the tactics screen), there becomes an intense focus on that and that alone. With so much else that's been announced dismissed out of hand, people write about what is actually relevant to them. Couple that with only having the briefest of descriptions for each part, and you are only inviting criticism and uninformed speculation which then leads to negative threads and all the (quite justified) "wait and find out" Mod posts. Posting a vague one-sentence description is not teasing- it's just failing to explain. To take the "Expanded Press Interaction", for example, the wording doesn't suggest that there's anything new there in terms of ideas, just more of the same- which was exactly the wave of criticism that came with the announcement of the same feature in FM15. If that's the case, don't mention it at all, or if it's not the case and something has changed, then it needs to be better explained.

Look, I'm not rushing to any judgments on FM16- nothing I've said here concerns the quality of the game itself because I don't know what the game's going to be like until I get my hands on it. I'm not going to leap to any conclusions about screenshots or what is or isn't possible. But from a marketing perspective, it's a very odd choice of approach to take, and one which can't be in the best interest of marketing the game. The people who are interested in it at this point in time are the people who are already playing. Newcomers to the series, which this tee-hee tease me post seems to be angled at, aren't going to preorder the game two months in advance, discount or no discount.

[Kriss]

But from a marketing perspective, it's a very odd choice of approach to take, and one which can't be in the best interest of marketing the game. The people who are interested in it at this point in time are the people who are already playing. Newcomers to the series, which this tee-hee tease me post seems to be angled at, aren't going to preorder the game two months in advance, discount or no discount.

Couldn't agree more, I've never understood their marketing policy since the brilliant videos they use to use.

[themadsheep2001]

Couldn't agree more, I've never understood their marketing policy since the brilliant videos they use to use.

The videos got it bang on.

[Guest]

I'd also agree with that sentiment, SI do a great many thing right both inside & outside of the industry but marketing is not exactly one of the strongest parts of their game,

Of course it can't be easy for a marketing team, either in-house or from an external agency to plan a marketing strategy for a game & community like FM, certainly not a job that I would ever want.

[Kriss]

I'd love it, I'm sure I could sell more copies than Miles probably already have

[Just-Wool]

I'd also agree with that sentiment, SI do a great many thing right both inside & outside of the industry but marketing is not exactly one of the strongest parts of their game,

Of course it can't be easy for a marketing team, either in-house or from an external agency to plan a marketing strategy for a game & community like FM, certainly not a job that I would ever want.

FM is already a worldwide brand for anyone with an interest in PC gaming and/or football. This means it's not *too* hard to get people on board with the new version of the game, there is already interest there.

It is very difficult to make a game like FM (where the gameplay can be boiled down to looking at a few screens, pressing continue, then eventually watching a match look "sexy" for the casual fan. The reveal this year seems to be catered toward trying to show they are making the game look a bit more friendly for casuals.

Problem is, this forum doesn't really *do* casual. Nor do a lot of the FM community.

[MBarbaric]

FM is already a worldwide brand for anyone with an interest in PC gaming and/or football. This means it's not *too* hard to get people on board with the new version of the game, there is already interest there.

not really. fm is a niche game. while a lot of people in the world like football relatively small number is inclined to watch some pac man (my gf's words) dots running around (i try to turn off 3d when she comes near as i'm ashamed how my beloved game looks in 3d ) running around. people like to play football even on PC but not so much watching it being played.

in general i agree the marketing is a bit odd. it is obious fm community is quite divided between hard core full fat players and people who just want to plug some tactics and win things with their favourite team. i'd guess si should try to separate these two things and focus plug and play on mobile platform (not excluding pc) while maintaining the full fat uber simulation for those who want it.

instead they are trying to merge everything creating even more confusion within fanbase and potential customers.

[Just-Wool]

not really. fm is a niche game. while a lot of people in the world like football relatively small number is inclined to watch some pac man (my gf's words) dots running around (i try to turn off 3d when she comes near as i'm ashamed how my beloved game looks in 3d ) running around. people like to play football even on PC but not so much watching it being played.

in general i agree the marketing is a bit odd. it is obious fm community is quite divided between hard core full fat players and people who just want to plug some tactics and win things with their favourite team. i'd guess si should try to separate these two things and focus plug and play on mobile platform (not excluding pc) while maintaining the full fat uber simulation for those who want it.

instead they are trying to merge everything creating even more confusion within fanbase and potential customers.

It's a niche game in terms of playing, sure. The sort of game isn't for everyone and some are intimidated to start it.

As a brand though it's huge. There won't be many football fans who haven't at least heard of football manager. This is the audience that SI want to attract. Hence the first key points being graphical upgrades and FMT being available as standalone.

The initial reveal basically isn't for the likes of you and I.

[MBarbaric]

It's a niche game in terms of playing, sure. The sort of game isn't for everyone and some are intimidated to start it.

As a brand though it's huge. There won't be many football fans who haven't at least heard of football manager. This is the audience that SI want to attract. Hence the first key points being graphical upgrades and FMT being available as standalone.

The initial reveal basically isn't for the likes of you and I.

agee there completely except... what graphical upgrades ???

[Just-Wool]

agee there completely except... what graphical upgrades ???

Well, erm.. Technically the manager thing, UI changes and new animations are graphical upgrades. I guess. They are the sort of features that make the game look more appealing to new people who are quite casual about the genre.

[MBarbaric]

i'm wondering where is the cave inhabited by the customer who will buy the game based on that manager thing :D

[Just-Wool]

i'm wondering where is the cave inhabited by the customer who will buy the game based on that manager thing :D

I'd say it's somewhere near Stoke.

[RTHerringbone]

It's adjacent to that of the people who pour scorn on new features before experiencing them

[MBarbaric]

It's adjacent to that of the people who pour scorn on new features before experiencing them

oh i love the manager on the sideline i think it is really time to include that. but it looks horrible. hence why we don't have close up camera on 3d. it would look horrible for 21st century and yet... we get to see that manager creation tool in full detail

if they left it as a nice surprise once you turn the game on that would be ok, but showing that ... they deserve a bit of laugh. but hey, it is nice to have it there, it just looks ugly.

[Just-Wool]

oh i love the manager on the sideline i think it is really time to include that. but it looks horrible. hence why we don't have close up camera on 3d. it would look horrible for 21st century and yet... we get to see that manager creation tool in full detail

if they left it as a nice surprise once you turn the game on that would be ok, but showing that ... they deserve a bit of laugh. but hey, it is nice to have it there, it just looks ugly.

Doesn't it just? Proper melted.

[kensteidel]

Well, if they had used a picture of a man composed of Ron Pearlman's head, Richard Hammond's teeth and Wayne Rooney's hair, and hadn't seen them in real life, your first natural reaction would be to claim it looked unrealistic. So there might actually be someone who looks like the FM 16 sideline manager. We will just have to wait and see how much editing we can do for it to cater to our grasp of realism.

[grade]

I agree that marketing FM16 has been a miss for me. I prefer last years and the years that they posted the videos.

An example if they posted a video of the new tactical screen, instead of low resolution image, they could have avoided the criticisms they in the last few days.

It was their marketing choice, but I don't see what is the plus of low resolution images, in marketing plan, compared to other years.

[MBarbaric]

It was their marketing choice, but I don't see what is the plus of low resolution images, in marketing plan, compared to other years.

i guess they want to win some tablet users.

[flogside]

I'm 69 and have been fighting cancer for the last 3 years so I think it's a pretty safe assumption.

Forameuss gives very insightful reasoning as to why a competitor is almost certain never to appear again.

Oh God I hope thats not true and you are just trying to make a point!

But although Forameuss does indeed give very insightful info and clearly knows more about me about it im still not sure i agree. I just cant see how what with Football being the most popular sport in the world that we wont have another managing sim that can compete with FM at some point in the near(ish) future. Even if such powerforces as Fifa have tried and failed (they took the wrong approach to a management sim in my opinion)

[fabioke]

I agree that marketing FM16 has been a miss for me. I prefer last years and the years that they posted the videos.

An example if they posted a video of the new tactical screen, instead of low resolution image, they could have avoided the criticisms they in the last few days.

It was their marketing choice, but I don't see what is the plus of low resolution images, in marketing plan, compared to other years.

The best compromise would be:

- Every week a big feature video with more detail

- Every day a small feature that didn't get into the video

FM 15 lacked great features but that video was awesome so I preordered in an emotional weak moment.

[ben carter]

All the announcements are a welcome addition for me. FM15 as it is now, has had me hooked. I think the match engine is great, so any improvements there are great. The new tactics screen will take some getting use to but the new view in FM15 was jarring at first but it's great now. There'll no doubt be a few niggles with the UI, but there was for FM15 for me and they were fixed first week with a few skin tweaks.

A few of the new things are superfluous for how I play, like the create a manager and club. they're just features that I'll not use much but I'm sure lots will enjoy them

[ctfm2012]

Given the new look of the tactical screen it just feels like another windows 10 update, do you really need to upgrade when everything is working nicely ? Some people say yes and some people say no. Either way you go your not going to please everyone. A solution i can give you is to allow people to choose if they want the older interface style or the new interface style in the new game and that way it's a win win for everyone. Given the fact that the game is mainly played on pc i'm sure you can bloat it up a bit. As for ipads and iphones and what other gadgets you need to work on then i can understand that. But for the pc version I"m sure a few megabytes wont hurt peoples hardrives.

[Bluebird123]

I was very underwhelmed by the new features mentioned (the new tactics screen looks horrible and makes me wonder why they decided to change FM15's screen), none of them really stood out to me. All I want is tweaks to the match engine and a big improvement on the player interaction.

FM15 has pretty much been a perfect game for me and I can't see myself buying FM16 unless I definitely know that the core gameplay has been improved.

[samdiatmh]

I'll weigh in with my thoughts (taken from here) in order

Manager customisation:

Personally not the biggest fan of it, but I can see the 'immersive' aspect that appeals to some users (nothing like seeing yourself actually in the game)

I'd actually like to see the face be customised to the picture actually provided (rather than you choosing - although I guess it could be 'less than ideal' if the software labelled someone as having a 'fat' face)

Not that you can tell that he's actually in the game, but I guess that's a limitation of the 'lowest of the low' settings that SI are going with

Fantasy draft:

Looks like a good option for those multiplayer tournament scenes, which seems to be the rage at the minute (with twitch, or just banter between mates)

Seems a bit limited with only 6 teams in a league format, but I think it'll be expanded with future versions

Create a club:

Looks easier than poking around in the editor for several hours (took me around 5 hours to create a basic team, in the premiership, with 8 players and 3 staff on previous FMs)

hard to make a full conclusion without seeing more information

Goal highlights:

Isn't this already in FM15?

Not a fan of the bars (presume condition) underneath the players name in the highlights, hopefully it's a toggle-able option in the PC-only FM

Does look like a good option for those really in-depth managers, with the role of the players listed as well (so I know that they play with a CMauto, rather having to guess on an unknown-role CM)

Fortunately it doesn't actually take that long, covering 3 matches in 30 seconds, otherwise it will seem like a waste of time

Prozone:

Nothing to say about the analysis, looks like a change of UI for the stats (rather than an excel spreadsheet, it's looks more friendly)

Goal position looks interesting, hopefully it makes it easier for the likes of penalty shootouts (he normally takes them to the left, so I'll dive that way - rather than seeming random)

I do like the prozone stat that goers across the bottom when the game is processing, might be some useful tidbits (XYZ have the highest pass completion, with 85% over their first 10 matches)

Set piece creator:

Visually looks better than on FM15, but no major changes there (I still want the option of full customisation, but accept that it's an easy exploit if included)

and hopefully putting people on the posts actually does something, rather than them just standing there being anonymous

Press conferences:

The wording may have changed a little, but it still looks pretty click-the-routine

Other:

look at all those options for the teamtalk!

Injuries detemined during the match! - this is a big one, you can now make the choice to take someone off with a potentially serious injury (my paceman winger has suffered a corked calf? right off he comes)

like the visual for the TIs now, should aid the improvement of those newer players that don't understand (though I can see people using FAR too many)

suggested subs looks good, but hopefully we can get a rating for each player in the position, so we can make the best choice (player X has more circle than player Y) in case we don't carry a spare DR (and we have a DC and a DL, both can play there awkwardly)

[twotonekarma]

Couldn't have put it better, fm live such the best thing that "FM/CM" have ever done yet why stop it?

Even at say £10 a month id have done that over any recent FM version there has been since.

Unfortunately there wasn't enough demand at the time to make it viable, and they tried to stick with all existing players and wanted everyone to have the option of buying Ronaldinho

I think if they relaunched, with fake players, and a single huge gameworld with tiered progression, it would take off again. Especially if there was a way to hit it on tablets/phones.

I've been hoping they bring it back one day. I want my next Dusan Stefanovic, Rodrigo Da Silva Costa, or Jhon Fredy Orrego

Perhaps some of these multiplayer features will take us a step toward

[laBOMBA]

Personally, I couldn't get excited about FM15 and I don't think I will for FM16 either. Steam says I clocked 2022 hours for FM14, 401 for FM15 while my average is around 1200 per version.

I'm an older gamer as well and I believe it's harder for SI to offer "new" items that would interest people that started off in the Champ Man days.

The only items I could potentially enjoy are the Fantasy Draft, Set Piece Creator and Prozone analysis. The overall graphics keep improving, however the players looks more and more fake as I find their arms are too far away from their body and the elbows look too high. It kinda reminds me of Monthy Python.

Or a digital game of subbuteo:

[DANNY1000000]

Hi Danny, I would be interested to know what features you were hoping were announced?

* I'd like to have seen the ability to focus on a number of specific training attributes that you can customise as opposed to a roles attributes or just one attribute.

* Better youth developement, head of youth dev seems irrelevant. Maybe more purpose to him and more interaction, insight into future newgens (under 16s)

* Own academies abroad to develop and bring players through instead of partnerships with affiliates?

* More indepth player interaction, discipline for example.

* Intelligent player partnerships (Yorke and Cole). Some maybe natural and some could be training focused.

* Ass Man should use your tactics in friendlies

* Loan fees seem to have a ceiling of 200k a month if loaning out but the AI can ask crazy money.

* More realistic player swaps, doesn't seem very good to me.

* More defensive PPMS, controls backline?

* More goalkeeping PPMS, Long throws, Look to claim from corners etc

[Dagenham_Dave]

I'd like to have seen the ability to focus on a number of specific training attributes that you can customise as opposed to a roles attributes or just one attribute.

What would be the benefit of this? If you're looking to train a set number of attributes, why else would you do this other than for a specific role?

[BoxToBox]

What would be the benefit of this? If you're looking to train a set number of attributes, why else would you do this other than for a specific role?

He might have a different idea of how he'd like his player to develop than any of the role pre-sets?

[DANNY1000000]

What would be the benefit of this? If you're looking to train a set number of attributes, why else would you do this other than for a specific role?

Maybe I want specific physical attributes to develop...

[Dagenham_Dave]

He might have a different idea of how he'd like his player to develop than any of the role pre-sets?

But you can't play a player outwith any of the preset roles. so there seems little point in doing this. It just seems like it's looking for a feature to be added purely for the reason that it isn't there at the moment. I understand this continuous desire to have complete freedom in the game, but if there's no real tangible benefit, it renders the feature superfluous at best.

If you were able to fully customise your own roles - which is a whole different discussion - then yes, this would be a feature with some end benefit. As it is though, it's not really all that worthwhile an addition.

In my opinion, of course.

[DANNY1000000]

But you can't play a player outwith any of the preset roles. so there seems little point in doing this. It just seems like it's looking for a feature to be added purely for the reason that it isn't there at the moment. I understand this continuous desire to have complete freedom in the game, but if there's no real tangible benefit, it renders the feature superfluous at best.

If you were able to fully customise your own roles - which is a whole different discussion - then yes, this would be a feature with some end benefit. As it is though, it's not really all that worthwhile an addition.

In my opinion, of course.

I have given you an example above but also what if you want to change between roles during a match or between games and they are only designated to train in one role?