Football Manager 2024 Official Feedback Thread

[Dedinho]

29 minutes ago, Litmanen 10 said:

Definitely realistic. Assane Diao had 3 star potential with one grey(?) star at the beginning of my save but now he's been progressing well been included in the first team, this has changed to 4 & 5. No idea how good he will turn out to be.

I have never understood why some people even want to see the exact PA numbers on their saves and why this feature has been included in some of the skins. 

Not knowing how a player will actually turn out, despite the fact your coaching and scouting staff has 17+ in both "Judging potential" and "Judging ability" is a MAJOR plus for me in FM games. 

Also not knowing how quickly can the player actually reach their potential is also something that enhances the experience for me. Some players actually develop now somewhat when playing for your u21 team. Some develop slower even when given first-team exposure, some faster..

 I brought in a 18 year old left winger from Kobenhaven: 2.5 star CA, 5 PA. By the end of the season, he had 4 star CA. In the middle of the next season, he became "World class player". I did not expect of him to develop that quickly. Then again, bought some kids with high potential, and they have not developed as I hoped. And I love that aspect of the game. Same when you have an "average" (3 star CA, 3 star PA) 26 year old guy in your rotation. The guy playing the majority of games in his position gets an injury that puts him out for 6 months. Oh well, I guess the back up will have to do. When you check the profile of the backup after 6-7 months of regular playing, he developed to a 3,5/4 star player. Huh??! The first team player is finally back, and now I don't know who to start!! I love those scenarios.

[Matej]

Ill tell you whats my main problem with FM 24. Its 2 easy. 

Ill try to be short in my explanation. 

1. i play control possession with high pressing, its my standard formation and tactic, i played like that in last 4-5 FM managers. 
2. i started in 3rd divison. i was first. next season i was 2nd in 2nd division, but over 100 points.
3. Now its my first season in First divison. There are at least 8 clubs that have much much better squad with great rotation players. Also around 6 other clubs with better players then mine. 

But even when i play against much stronger squads, im better team with many chances. Its crazy. 

Some things i do, just to speed up the game : i send  Assistent manager to all press c. I don't touch training and i dont touch set pieces. In my life i never opened some article with wonderkinds, what are best formations etc. Btw, all this people on youtube who are earning money to " help" people are frauds if you ask me. Game is easy, they are sellin you the story about great formations. You just need to take default formation control possession or even better gegenpress and you will have great results. I can take any other formation 2, but i dont like them. im sure ill have great results, as long as you stick to high pressing.  

I play on Key highlights. I dont even think about opponent and how they play. It doesnt matter. 

My point is, Im doin nothin special and im dominating every League i play. Why AI, who has much better squads then me, dont play for example similiar formation and tactic as mine? Do they play high pressing at all?  If the game is fair, AI should crush me with their better players. 

Im playin 30+ years FM/ CM, i never played so easy version in my life.  

I simply dont understand how someone who has lets say  5 years of experiance in FM, can find this game challenging. If you really have problems, send me PM and in 5 minutes ill tell you what to do and you must have good results. 

 

Ill put my formation and tactic. Its nothing special. So please can anyone from SI explain to me and others how im much better then AI controled teams and they have much better squads? i simply dont understand and all i can think is that game is rigged, that game gives much advantage to human player. I have no other explanation. 

Edited February 18 by Matej

[Rodrigogc]

2 minutos atrás, Matej disse:

Ill tell you whats my main problem with FM 24. Its 2 easy. 

Ill try to be short in my explanation. 

1. i play control possession with high pressing, its my standard formation and tactic, i played like that in last 4-5 FM managers. 
2. i started in 3rd divison. i was first. next season i was 2nd in 2nd division, but over 100 points.
3. Now its my first season in First divison. There are at least 8 clubs that have much much better squad with great rotation players. Also around 6 other clubs with better players then mine. 

But even when i play against much stronger squads, im better team with many chances. Its crazy. 

Some things i do, just to speed up the game : i send  Assistent manager to all press c. I don't touch training and i dont touch set pieces. In my life i never opened some article with wonderkinds, what are best formations etc. Btw, all this people on youtube who are earning money to " help" people are frauds if you ask me. Game is easy, they are sellin you the story about great formations. You just need to take default formation control possession or even better gegenpress and you will have great results. I can take any other formation 2, but i dont like them. im sure ill have great results, as long as you stick to high pressing.  

I play on Key highlights. I dont even think about opponent and how they play. It doesnt matter. 

My point is, Im doin nothin special and im dominating every League i play. Why AI, who has much better squads then me, dont play for example similiar formation and tactic as mine? Do they play high pressing at all?  If the game is fair, AI should crush me with their better players. 

Im playin 30+ years FM/ CM, i never played so easy version in my life.  

I simply dont understand how someone who has lets say have 5 years of experiance in FM, can find this game challenging. If you really have problems, send me PM and in 5 minutes ill tell you what to do and you must have good results. 

 

This video says it all. He basically says (for those who don't want to watch):

- I don't touch training 

- I don't touch data hub

- I don't even scout (delegate it)

- Transfer delegated to DoF, only having the final saying

- Hiring staff delegated as well

 

So basically all he does is change tactics, renew first team players contracts, accept or reject DoF offers and still wins easily. In summary the games has got loads of features and information but you don't need most of them to win trophies. I understand that it wouldn't be beginner friendly if you had to master all these features/areas of the game, but it is frustrating knowing one doesn't need to go far from basics to win. 

It's like saying: Hey, here's your data hub, your training tab, your scouting tab... but you don't need to mess with those to win games. 

[jc1]

6 hours ago, Dotsworthy said:

When it comes to assessing youth players the margin of error is much higher than your first team. It's not unrealistic as clubs misjudge prospects all the time in real life.

If you want exact values then you need the editor.

This is in the in game editor, he has a PA of 150 but in that save the coaches had him as a potential to be a good player with 2.5 stars, in my next save he's now seen as a future star player with a PA of 4.5 stars, same coaches each time. He's not a young 16 year old but an 18 year old who has played half a dozen 1st team games.

[jc1]

16 minutes ago, Rodrigogc said:

 

This video says it all. He basically says (for those who don't want to watch):

- I don't touch training 

- I don't touch data hub

- I don't even scout (delegate it)

- Transfer delegated to DoF, only having the final saying

- Hiring staff delegated as well

 

So basically all he does is change tactics, renew first team players contracts, accept or reject DoF offers and still wins easily. In summary the games has got loads of features and information but you don't need most of them to win trophies. I understand that it wouldn't be beginner friendly if you had to master all these features/areas of the game, but it is frustrating knowing one doesn't need to go far from basics to win. 

It's like saying: Hey, here's your data hub, your training tab, your scouting tab... but you don't need to mess with those to win games. 

He does exactly what I do, if I leave my DOF to get players they're generally crap and I just end up withdrawing offer, far too many things in game you don't need to bother with and just delegate them to Am or a coach who can do it.

[Matej]

7 minutes ago, Rodrigogc said:

 

This video says it all. He basically says (for those who don't want to watch):

- I don't touch training 

- I don't touch data hub

- I don't even scout (delegate it)

- Transfer delegated to DoF, only having the final saying

- Hiring staff delegated as well

 

So basically all he does is change tactics, renew first team players contracts, accept or reject DoF offers and still wins easily. In summary the games has got loads of features and information but you don't need most of them to win trophies. I understand that it wouldn't be beginner friendly if you had to master all these features/areas of the game, but it is frustrating knowing one doesn't need to go far from basics to win. 

It's like saying: Hey, here's your data hub, your training tab, your scouting tab... but you don't need to mess with those to win games. 

Thats all true. Im on this forum for 20 years. I remember many great, smart people who understood formations, tactic and i remember great debates about this game. I know that some of these players even start to work for SI, or at least had some influence on SI. How is possible they all failed to make realistic game, or a game with at least little challenge? 

For example, im interested can Rashidi or someone with his knowledge answer on my previous questions. Whats so good with my formation that AI with much better squad is dominated by my team and do you agree that if  AI  play similiar formation and tactic as mine, but with much better players, they should have much better chance to beat my team? 

 

 

[mozza79]

19 minutes ago, jc1 said:

He does exactly what I do, if I leave my DOF to get players they're generally crap and I just end up withdrawing offer, far too many things in game you don't need to bother with and just delegate them to Am or a coach who can do it.

 

which is good for those who don't want to spend time on training, media etc.. me being one of them.

 

[RDF Tactics]

1 hour ago, Rodrigogc said:

 

This video says it all. He basically says (for those who don't want to watch):

- I don't touch training 

- I don't touch data hub

- I don't even scout (delegate it)

- Transfer delegated to DoF, only having the final saying

- Hiring staff delegated as well

 

So basically all he does is change tactics, renew first team players contracts, accept or reject DoF offers and still wins easily. In summary the games has got loads of features and information but you don't need most of them to win trophies. I understand that it wouldn't be beginner friendly if you had to master all these features/areas of the game, but it is frustrating knowing one doesn't need to go far from basics to win. 

It's like saying: Hey, here's your data hub, your training tab, your scouting tab... but you don't need to mess with those to win games. 

To back to SI/FM a little, isn't that what being a football manager/coach is nowadays?

Which manager now does training, controls all of the data, assign scouts and hire/fire staff? You could argue it's more realistic to delegate these things.
I see no issue with players delegating but being successful. It's why you hire good staff in the first place. But it can also become a bit gatekeeping. To play FM, you must learn to do some of these things to win trophies.

These features are what make the game playable for different FM player types. And there certainly is a difference in delegating and controlling. It's down to you how you want to achieve success.

Training for example. I can delegate it. My wonderkid still becomes an elite player. Or, I can control training, control my wonderkids' training and be able to improve certain attributes I want specifically wanted to improve. I may put him on attacking movement. Or final third. I'll then get different results than I would have if I delegated. Both still successful, but one way can be more rewarding.

[sthptngomad76]

3 hours ago, Rodrigogc said:

 

This video says it all. He basically says (for those who don't want to watch):

- I don't touch training 

- I don't touch data hub

- I don't even scout (delegate it)

- Transfer delegated to DoF, only having the final saying

- Hiring staff delegated as well

 

So basically all he does is change tactics, renew first team players contracts, accept or reject DoF offers and still wins easily. In summary the games has got loads of features and information but you don't need most of them to win trophies. I understand that it wouldn't be beginner friendly if you had to master all these features/areas of the game, but it is frustrating knowing one doesn't need to go far from basics to win. 

It's like saying: Hey, here's your data hub, your training tab, your scouting tab... but you don't need to mess with those to win games. 

I really liked a comment someone made a few months back commenting on this very issue- football manager has become a “Potemkin village”. There’s a lot of tools to make you feel like you’re doing deep analysis, but in reality you need very few if any to succeed.

[whatsupdoc]

6 hours ago, andu1 said:

Can AI throw-ins from the penalty area be defended at all? Or should i be resigned to receive a goal every 2 matches from those dreaded throw-ins?

No they can't.

Camp in your opponents half. A lot of stuff in your own half...

1v1 defending...

Marking...

Throw ins...

Near post corners....

Stopping crosses...

 

Doesn't really work once you're in your own half defending. 

The only real way to defend in fm24 is to be as far away from your own goal as possible. Trying compact, deep football... You're fighting against 3 or 4 big ME problems that can't be resolved. 

Stuff like this: 

 

Edited February 19 by whatsupdoc

[Rodrigogc]

2 horas atrás, RDF Tactics disse:

To back to SI/FM a little, isn't that what being a football manager/coach is nowadays?

Which manager now does training, controls all of the data, assign scouts and hire/fire staff? You could argue it's more realistic to delegate these things.
I see no issue with players delegating but being successful. It's why you hire good staff in the first place. But it can also become a bit gatekeeping. To play FM, you must learn to do some of these things to win trophies.

These features are what make the game playable for different FM player types. And there certainly is a difference in delegating and controlling. It's down to you how you want to achieve success.

Training for example. I can delegate it. My wonderkid still becomes an elite player. Or, I can control training, control my wonderkids' training and be able to improve certain attributes I want specifically wanted to improve. I may put him on attacking movement. Or final third. I'll then get different results than I would have if I delegated. Both still successful, but one way can be more rewarding.

You are right, it does resemble real life, the problem is that when you are losing, messing with the inummerous tools will not increase your chance of winning. FM is about keeping players happy, when you are losing that's what you have to concentrate on, nothing else. Messing with trainings, data hub, all these things will not make your team get out of a bad situation. You are right about real life managers delegating and having success, but real life success has got no formula you have to follow, that's why we see the likes of Thomas Tuchel winning UCL with Chelsea and struggling managing Bayern Munich. 

In FM you can always ignore the tools and concentrate in keeping the team happy and follow the tactics that suit the current ME better and you are set to win. I'm not bashing SI, I just wish there would be some randomness in terms of results if you follow always the same patterns, because what the game provides nowadays is just illusion of control and nothing else. 

Edited February 19 by Rodrigogc

[wazzaflow10]

11 hours ago, RDF Tactics said:

Being able to achieve this in FM, I think would make a mid-block system a lot more fun to use and create. And something possibly that FM could start looking to improve. What do you lot think?

I'm not saying you can't achieve success in a mid-block. You can. But whenever I (my experience) attempt to use a 4-4-2 or 4-4-1-1, I don't enjoy watching how we defend. When using "force wide" in FM, this is what I picture in my head. A compact and narrow shape. But in reality, I get a shape when my wide players are already wide - creating space in between my lines between the wide and central players. They don't defend or shift in a block as a unit. I often get the image attached. A spread-out back 4 and a spread-out midfield 4. My front two actually are set up well. AMC joins ST - stops ball being played to pivot. But from there, I'm not happy with my shape. I've opened a tactical thread on here too, trying to see if I'm missing anything or if others have been able to achieve/suggest what I'm looking for.

You can see in the GIF. From a dead ball. Our RB and RM are so wide. Frosinone have a player just stood there in between my midfield. Free. How can we force play wide when our players are already standing wide? We can't trap them there because they of course won't pass there.

The results have been great, though. Most clean sheets. Fewest conceded. Fewest shots against. Nothing to complain about there. With positional play in the game looking fancy, being able to achieve a solid shape like the tactical example would add to the great game. Not that a mid-block like this should be easy to create and use. but I do believe to an extent, it would get the high-line players to dibble their toes into a different way of playing.

 

Is this not achievable by taking your right and left midfielders and having them mark specifically CML and CMR positions?  I know it seems like it should be more intuitive that what you really want is the space between the wingers and central midfield but it should drag them inside a bit more. Admittedly I don't know how well the mark specific positions works.

 

[Kevinho7]

9 hours ago, Matej said:

Ill put my formation and tactic. Its nothing special. So please can anyone from SI explain to me and others how im much better then AI controled teams and they have much better squads? i simply dont understand and all i can think is that game is rigged, that game gives much advantage to human player. I have no other explanation. 

 

It’s far from playing the control possession preset tho.
Standard passing lenght, higher tempo, counter, counter press, high press, high line and more often pressing. 

These are all the ingredients to get almost any tactic working on this game unfortunately. Your tactic looks well distributed in terms of roles and duties. So yeah, coupled with those ti’s it’s almost always the winning formula. Particularly anoying how using a higher tempo always let’s you outperform, no matter your team’s quality. 😅 It defo shouldn’t be quite this easy… 🤷🏻‍♂️

Edited February 19 by Kevinho7

[NineCloudNine]

9 hours ago, jc1 said:

This is in the in game editor, he has a PA of 150 but in that save the coaches had him as a potential to be a good player with 2.5 stars, in my next save he's now seen as a future star player with a PA of 4.5 stars, same coaches each time. He's not a young 16 year old but an 18 year old who has played half a dozen 1st team games.

This is completely normal and working as intended. Getting to 150 would make him a ~3.5 star player for a top division team. But there is no way a coach can know to that level of precision how good an 18-yr old might become. Over time the coach’s view will become more accurate as the kid plays more. Right now there’s a margin of error of 1 star either way (which is pretty accurate in fact).

It’s mildly amusing that you have sought to demonstrate what you see as the poor state of the game by picking on something that it actually does really well. Good job! 

[RDF Tactics]

3 hours ago, wazzaflow10 said:

Is this not achievable by taking your right and left midfielders and having them mark specifically CML and CMR positions?  I know it seems like it should be more intuitive that what you really want is the space between the wingers and central midfield but it should drag them inside a bit more. Admittedly I don't know how well the mark specific positions works.

 

It literally makes no difference. Tried never tight mark but what happens is regardless, they run straight to their position when defending. So they run straight to RM and LM.

it’s also why you have a massive gap between your full backs and CBs. They focus on defending their position only - they don’t come in narrow and making your back line compact. AI often make runs in between.

The marking system I find it just mostly redundant.

it gives me the option for my DM to mark the ST position for example. When the match is playing, you never see the DM mark the ST position. 

[RDF Tactics]

47 minutes ago, Kevinho7 said:

 

It’s far from playing the control possession preset tho.
Standard passing lenght, higher tempo, counter, counter press, high press, high line and more often pressing. 

These are all the ingredients to get almost any tactic working on this game unfortunately. Your tactic looks well distributed in terms of roles and duties. So yeah, coupled with those ti’s it’s almost always the winning formula. Particularly anoying how using a higher tempo always let’s you outperform, no matter your team’s quality. 😅 It defo shouldn’t be quite this easy… 🤷🏻‍♂️

I need to understand what the hell tempo even is on this game.

i mentioned in my Thiago Motta tactic. I’m using mid tempo in a heavy possession tactic. But when I boost my tempo, my possession and pass % didn’t drop and results got better.

it felt wrong using fast tempo in the Thiago Motta tactic so I said in the video, if you want to get better results then just wack the tempo high.

possession football in FM, and I don’t actually disagree, falls down to mostly your roles and formation selection. Just wished the instructions helped complement things better and make things very detrimental.

using control with very high tempo, you still often see your team recycling possession and being patient if you’re using a IFB with CBs for example. 

[Mitja]

4 minutes ago, RDF Tactics said:

It literally makes no difference. Tried never tight mark but what happens is regardless, they run straight to their position when defending. So they run straight to RM and LM.

it’s also why you have a massive gap between your full backs and CBs. They focus on defending their position only - they don’t come in narrow and making your back line compact. AI often make runs in between.

The marking system I find it just mostly redundant.

it gives me the option for my DM to mark the ST position for example. When the match is playing, you never see the DM mark the ST position. 

Remember 17 where wingers always stayed wide? In 21 fullbacks would retreat to position leaving wingers to your MCs. Can you post some videos preferably in 2D?

[Kevinho7]

17 minutes ago, RDF Tactics said:

I need to understand what the hell tempo even is on this game.

i mentioned in my Thiago Motta tactic. I’m using mid tempo in a heavy possession tactic. But when I boost my tempo, my possession and pass % didn’t drop and results got better.

it felt wrong using fast tempo in the Thiago Motta tactic so I said in the video, if you want to get better results then just wack the tempo high.

possession football in FM, and I don’t actually disagree, falls down to mostly your roles and formation selection. Just wished the instructions helped complement things better and make things very detrimental.

using control with very high tempo, you still often see your team recycling possession and being patient if you’re using a IFB with CBs for example. 

I still feel that shorter passing coupled with a higher tempo should only be used effectively when you are a very high quality side. Not like in fm where it just works on about every team. 

If you take a look at almost all Team Sequence Style scattergraphs you’ll immediately notice how there are almost no teams in the upper right quadrant (meaning short+fast). 
Only Liverpool in England and PSV in holland somewhat jump out. 
Teams usually sit in either the upper left quadrant (direct+fast), and lower right quadrant (short+slow). This just goes hand in hand and seems very logical.

So FM letting high tempo and shorter passing work together so easily and in such a effective way, just isn’t a good reflection of irl and irl data. 

Edited February 19 by Kevinho7

[RDF Tactics]

2 minutes ago, Kevinho7 said:

I still feel that shorter passing coupled with a higher tempo should only be used effectively when you are a very high quality side. Not like in fm where it just works on about every team. 

If you take a look at almost all Team Sequence Style scattergraphs you’ll immediately notice how there are almost no teams in the upper right quadrant (meaning short+fast). 
Only Liverpool in England and PSV in holland somewhat jump out. 

So FM letting high tempo and shorter passing work together so easily and in such a effective way, just isn’t a good reflection of irl and irl data. 

This is why I have question marks over tempo and how much control it has over your team. Or what exactly it affects. Is it just passing from back to front quicker - or does it also mean your players are looking to be quick with everything down to taking throw-ins and taking goal kicks etc.

I feel using an attacking mentality, you defo experience a high tempo not many passing sequences. Then you add a BPD and AF to that mix, you start seeing those direct balls and not much recycling.

But by using control, you defo still see patient football regardless if you put your tempo to high.

I don't think there's a passing sequence in FM but I guess you can just add up your passing, opposition passes allowed per defensive action (even though we discovered that is questionable lol) to see if you're operating with a high tempo.

[Dedinho]

12 minutes ago, Kevinho7 said:

I still feel that shorter passing coupled with a higher tempo should only be used effectively when you are a very high quality side. Not like in fm where it just works on about every team. 

If you take a look at almost all Team Sequence Style scattergraphs you’ll immediately notice how there are almost no teams in the upper right quadrant (meaning short+fast). 
Only Liverpool in England and PSV in holland somewhat jump out. 
Teams usually sit in either the upper left quadrant (direct+fast), and lower right quadrant (short+slow). This just goes hand in hand and seems very logical.

So FM letting high tempo and shorter passing work together so easily and in such a effective way, just isn’t a good reflection of irl and irl data. 

This is where I started noticing something is off with the ME. Off the ball I did play somewhat pressing style of defence (not ultra aggresive though - I had a higher offensive line and standard defensive line - to be wary of counter attacks of the opposite team), so that wasn't the dead giveaway. My logic was "I want you to get the ball back as soon as possible, and when you do get it back, keep possession, be smart and patient and look for openings" - meaning shorter passing, slower tempo, work ball into the box...So high intensity off the ball, lower intensity with the ball.

It had no consistency whatsoever. 

Edited February 19 by Dedinho

[andu1]

6 hours ago, whatsupdoc said:

No they can't.

Camp in your opponents half. A lot of stuff in your own half...

1v1 defending...

Marking...

Throw ins...

Near post corners....

Stopping crosses...

 

Doesn't really work once you're in your own half defending. 

The only real way to defend in fm24 is to be as far away from your own goal as possible. Trying compact, deep football... You're fighting against 3 or 4 big ME problems that can't be resolved. 

Stuff like this: 

 

Can't wait for FM25...

At least in that one we will get more ME fixes and more developer interaction since it's basically a new game.

[Dotsworthy]

10 hours ago, jc1 said:

This is in the in game editor, he has a PA of 150 but in that save the coaches had him as a potential to be a good player with 2.5 stars, in my next save he's now seen as a future star player with a PA of 4.5 stars, same coaches each time. He's not a young 16 year old but an 18 year old who has played half a dozen 1st team games.

18 year olds will also have a margin of error, you might not get an accurate picture until they are older, and even then it's not 100%. I don't know how a coaches rating of a player is calculated from save to save, but I wouldn't be surprised if there was some randomness to it, there are a lot of youth in the game.

I'm also pretty sure the players CA & reputation factor in the PA rating. Then you have the coaches judging potential stat. Not saying there isn't an issue but it could also be working as intended and your coach isn't the most accurate/your player does not have the reputation of an exciting prospect.

It's not uncommon to see this. I had two players in a golden generation, one given 5 stars (164 pa) and one given 3 stars (who actually had 160 pa). The 3 star one actually ended up the better player.

[whatsupdoc]

35 minutes ago, andu1 said:

Can't wait for FM25...

At least in that one we will get more ME fixes and more developer interaction since it's basically a new game.

The unity switch doesn't mean anything new for the ME. 

Judging from the amount of ME related bug reports with this status:

I'm not expecting a heap for the start of fm25. 

[RDF Tactics]

On 17/11/2023 at 14:13, Jack Joyce said:

OPPDA is probably one of the best examples of a stat that can be interpreted/implemented in hundreds of different ways, depending on provider. But other stats such as xG, 'big chance', clearance, dribble etc. are all oftentimes just subjective, down to the interpretation of the person recording the stats and can differ between providers.

As an example, some providers don't use xG to decide what a 'big chance' is, instead it's just down to the person recording the stats to decide whether it feels like one to them. Some providers even use this kind of subjective 'big chance' statistic IN their xG calculations! Comparing stats between different providers can be a dangerous game.

For OPPDA, not just the location of the pitch you use, but also simply how you define a 'defensive action' in the first place will have a huge impact on how the resulting stat comes out. I generally wouldn't recommend comparing this stat to real-life providers, instead just using it to compare different teams within the gameworld and seeing if the teams that are low/high feel right based on how they are playing.

I'm sorry but how do you compare different teams within the gameworld when the difference between teams with their OPPDA isn't larger than one. You can't possibly establish a difference between teams if the most intense team OPPDA is 4.35 and the least intense is at 5.53. Just about a difference of one pass. So everyone in the league is high intense?

If OPPDA is a great example of a stat that can be interpreted and implemented in a hundred different ways, why is there then no glossary of how FM are recording the data? It's all good having your own way of recording it but not telling the people who are using the data just doesn't make sense IMO. Every football data platform would have a glossary so you can understand their interpretation.

And still, nobody has or will tell us how OPPDA is being recorded (not that I've seen).

From the graph below, you can't possibly conclude anything about a team's defending style here. Barca defend high and high OPPDA. Girona defend deep, and has more intense press than Barca.

Getafe, whose manager plays wing-play and has less often pressing has a more intense press than Barca. Without being told what OPPDA is FM, it's impossible to then actually understand and comparing different teams within the gameworld.

[themadsheep2001]

No outside of SI has any idea what the switch to Unity will do tbh. 

[Kevinho7]

10 minutes ago, RDF Tactics said:

I'm sorry but how do you compare different teams within the gameworld when the difference between teams with their OPPDA isn't larger than one. You can't possibly establish a difference between teams if the most intense team OPPDA is 4.35 and the least intense is at 5.53. Just about a difference of one pass. So everyone in the league is high intense?

If OPPDA is a great example of a stat that can be interpreted and implemented in a hundred different ways, why is there then no glossary of how FM are recording the data? It's all good having your own way of recording it but not telling the people who are using the data just doesn't make sense IMO. Every football data platform would have a glossary so you can understand their interpretation.

And still, nobody has or will tell us how OPPDA is being recorded (not that I've seen).

From the graph below, you can't possibly conclude anything about a team's defending style here. Barca defend high and high OPPDA. Girona defend deep, and has more intense press than Barca.

Getafe, whose manager plays wing-play and has less often pressing has a more intense press than Barca. Without being told what OPPDA is FM, it's impossible to then actually understand and comparing different teams within the gameworld.

So true. Told you, right?
Nothing more to add to this and you’re bang on the money right here. 

[andu1]

36 minutes ago, whatsupdoc said:

The unity switch doesn't mean anything new for the ME. 

Judging from the amount of ME related bug reports with this status:

I'm not expecting a heap for the start of fm25. 

Yeah.. but the willingness to apply fixes will be higher i imagine.

[RDF Tactics]

49 minutes ago, Kevinho7 said:

So true. Told you, right?
Nothing more to add to this and you’re bang on the money right here. 

Have a great relationship with SI but feel this is the sort of stuff that creates a disconnect.

I'm not being a moaner here (I certainly am about to moan ). The feedback given just feels mostly ignored. 3 years ago I first asked for a glossary. Each FM since I have asked for a glossary lol now I don't think one should be created just because I asked for one but it's incredibly important. The more I ask, the more I feel that requests gets ignored and the more I poke for answers, I feel it's creating more of a distance between us hence why I now resort to putting this stuff publicly in a feedback thread. I was never this active in this thread but where else do I go?

OPPDA, I've also asked for that meaning and rather than getting a simple response of how FM records that in the game, I've had no answer to it.

I appreciate every opportunity FM has given (I'm just covering my tracks  ), but for things like this, there's no help for me to help them with feedback and suggestions to make the game better.

After each question, bug or feedback I send in, I start to feel demotivated to ask again or ask about something else because I don't get a straight answer from my original question.

I get it. I'm a big moaner. They probably don't want to keep responding to me, they're busy and have jobs to do. I think I'm viewed more as an annoyance than someone who wants to help ("why does he keep asking questions and moaning. LEAVE US ALONE!")  

Unfortunately, that's me though. Family, Arsenal and FM are 3 things I'm that passionate about and go a long way for them (as sad as it sounds). I'd do what I can to help improve the game, it's the main intention of my actions. I run a podcast about FM where I will never share these sort of things as its a place for people to come and get help. Same for my YouTube. You will and have NEVER heard me criticize or give attention to a fault in the game. That's not what I want to do as it can hurt the game. It is only helpful content.

Sometimes I just wish I can be as helpful to SI/FM. *edit - I just read this back and it sounds so so sad  my life, people*

Edited February 19 by RDF Tactics

[whatsupdoc]

35 minutes ago, RDF Tactics said:

Have a great relationship with SI but feel this is the sort of stuff that creates a disconnect.

I'm not being a moaner here (I certainly am about to moan ). The feedback given just feels mostly ignored. 3 years ago I first asked for a glossary. Each FM since I have asked for a glossary lol now I don't think one should be created just because I asked for one but it's incredibly important. The more I ask, the more I feel that requests gets ignored and the more I poke for answers, I feel it's creating more of a distance between us hence why I now resort to putting this stuff publicly in a feedback thread. I was never this active in this thread but where else do I go?

OPPDA, I've also asked for that meaning and rather than getting a simple response of how FM records that in the game, I've had no answer to it.

I appreciate every opportunity FM has given (I'm just covering my tracks  ), but for things like this, there's no help for me to help them with feedback and suggestions to make the game better.

After each question, bug or feedback I send in, I start to feel demotivated to ask again or ask about something else because I don't get a straight answer from my original question.

I get it. I'm a big moaner. They probably don't want to keep responding to me, they're busy and have jobs to do. I think I'm viewed more as an annoyance than someone who wants to help ("why does he keep asking questions and moaning. LEAVE US ALONE!")  

Unfortunately, that's me though. Family, Arsenal and FM are 3 things I'm that passionate about and go a long way for them (as sad as it sounds). I'd do what I can to help improve the game, it's the main intention of my actions. I run a podcast about FM where I will never share these sort of things as its a place for people to come and get help. Same for my YouTube. You will and have NEVER heard me criticize or give attention to a fault in the game. That's not what I want to do as it can hurt the game. It is only helpful content.

Sometimes I just wish I can be as helpful to SI/FM. *edit - I just read this back and it sounds so so sad  my life, people*

If you have to apologise 8 times in a 10 line post to provide negative feedback, then all is lost. You're doing them a favour. How they choose to take it is up to them.

You've paid for a product, you've had your feedback actively solicited then ignored, and for the 15th year running you have a game nearing the second half of its yearly cycle with numerous and significant bugs. 

The above has been normalised in the gaming industry but it is not a practice that anyone hopes would conitnue. If it annoys you, speak up. 

Edited February 19 by whatsupdoc

[XaW]

24 minutes ago, RDF Tactics said:

Have a great relationship with SI but feel this is the sort of stuff that creates a disconnect.

I'm not being a moaner here (I certainly am about to moan ). The feedback given just feels mostly ignored. 3 years ago I first asked for a glossary. Each FM since I have asked for a glossary lol now I don't think one should be created just because I asked for one but it's incredibly important. The more I ask, the more I feel that requests gets ignored and the more I poke for answers, I feel it's creating more of a distance between us hence why I now resort to putting this stuff publicly in a feedback thread. I was never this active in this thread but where else do I go?

OPPDA, I've also asked for that meaning and rather than getting a simple response of how FM records that in the game, I've had no answer to it.

I appreciate every opportunity FM has given (I'm just covering my tracks  ), but for things like this, there's no help for me to help them with feedback and suggestions to make the game better.

After each question, bug or feedback I send in, I start to feel demotivated to ask again or ask about something else because I don't get a straight answer from my original question.

I get it. I'm a big moaner. They probably don't want to keep responding to me, they're busy and have jobs to do. I think I'm viewed more as an annoyance than someone who wants to help ("why does he keep asking questions and moaning. LEAVE US ALONE!")  

Unfortunately, that's me though. Family, Arsenal and FM are 3 things I'm that passionate about and go a long way for them (as sad as it sounds). I'd do what I can to help improve the game, it's the main intention of my actions. I run a podcast about FM where I will never share these sort of things as its a place for people to come and get help. Same for my YouTube. You will and have NEVER heard me criticize or give attention to a fault in the game. That's not what I want to do as it can hurt the game. It is only helpful content.

Sometimes I just wish I can be as helpful to SI/FM. *edit - I just read this back and it sounds so so sad  my life, people*

Don't think you (or anyone else for that matter) need to apologize for giving feedback. Most of what I've read from you here has been well thought out and well written. It's much better than someone just writing "it's crap" without reason. As long as it's being given in a respectful way (ie no name calling and such), SI will read it.

Having been here a while, I've never seen SI take negative feedback in any bad way. They might not agree with you, but I've never seen them shut down, or try to, in any way, stop it. We mods don't stop it either. We do reroute bug reports to the right place, and advise people to report stuff in the right section, as well as try to focus the thread back to feedback, but never stop actual feedback, good and bad.

And SI very rarely go into long discussions here, only small corrections, and or comments, since this supposed to be a place where any feedback is welcome. There are many other fora where SI can go deeper into discussions with users regarding their view of the state of the game, but this is not a thread for discussion, it's only for feedback. Good or bad, it's how they chose to do so, but anyone who gives good quality feedback, both negative or positive, might be asked by SI to give their views in more detail, or help out in other ways. Still, SI have said many times, they read this thread very carefully even if they don't reply.

And if you think you are being critical, you haven't read some of what we mods have given in feedback over the years, we don't hold back either!  

[kiingallen]

When does the winter patch usually release? 

[makavali]

15 hours ago, Matej said:

Ill tell you whats my main problem with FM 24. Its 2 easy. 

Ill try to be short in my explanation. 

1. i play control possession with high pressing, its my standard formation and tactic, i played like that in last 4-5 FM managers. 
2. i started in 3rd divison. i was first. next season i was 2nd in 2nd division, but over 100 points.
3. Now its my first season in First divison. There are at least 8 clubs that have much much better squad with great rotation players. Also around 6 other clubs with better players then mine. 

But even when i play against much stronger squads, im better team with many chances. Its crazy. 

Some things i do, just to speed up the game : i send  Assistent manager to all press c. I don't touch training and i dont touch set pieces. In my life i never opened some article with wonderkinds, what are best formations etc. Btw, all this people on youtube who are earning money to " help" people are frauds if you ask me. Game is easy, they are sellin you the story about great formations. You just need to take default formation control possession or even better gegenpress and you will have great results. I can take any other formation 2, but i dont like them. im sure ill have great results, as long as you stick to high pressing.  

I play on Key highlights. I dont even think about opponent and how they play. It doesnt matter. 

My point is, Im doin nothin special and im dominating every League i play. Why AI, who has much better squads then me, dont play for example similiar formation and tactic as mine? Do they play high pressing at all?  If the game is fair, AI should crush me with their better players. 

Im playin 30+ years FM/ CM, i never played so easy version in my life.  

I simply dont understand how someone who has lets say  5 years of experiance in FM, can find this game challenging. If you really have problems, send me PM and in 5 minutes ill tell you what to do and you must have good results. 

 

Ill put my formation and tactic. Its nothing special. So please can anyone from SI explain to me and others how im much better then AI controled teams and they have much better squads? i simply dont understand and all i can think is that game is rigged, that game gives much advantage to human player. I have no other explanation. 

Lower league management is stupidly easy this year. I found the Latvian League so easy I almost uninstalled the game. 

Doing a save in the big leagues now and it's way better in terms of difficulty. I hope it will be somehow addressed, as it's impossible to do a half-enjoyable save outside of the top 7 European leagues. Anyone who's denying it or is trying to find some kind of a logical explanation for the success is delusional 

[Etebaer]

Am 18.2.2024 um 12:30 schrieb dannyfc:

Stupid question - but are FM 24 saves compatible with FM 23? 

I only know it the other way around...

[Nick_CB]

This game is ridiculous

[El Payaso]

27 minutes ago, makavali said:

Lower league management is stupidly easy this year. I found the Latvian League so easy I almost uninstalled the game. 

Hasn't it always been? I used to do LLM in older versions of FM and it was always the same: one season per promotion until Championship that might take you 2-3 seasons before you reach the Premier League. 

I also tend to manage in Finland when summer starts and squads are up to date. My last attempt was with Rovaniemen Palloseura (RoPS) in FM 2019, I think. In real life that season squad was the worst that we have ever seen at the top tier in Finland but I easily won the league and also qualified to Europa League group stage. 

[NineCloudNine]

20 minutes ago, Nick_CB said:

This game is ridiculous

A tight match and a tight result that could have gone either way. I cannot see why you think this makes FM ‘ridiculous’.

[Kcinnay]

19 minutes ago, NineCloudNine said:

A tight match and a tight result that could have gone either way. I cannot see why you think this makes FM ‘ridiculous’.

The pass completion ratio perhaps.

[Nick_CB]

17 minutos atrás, Kcinnay disse:

The pass completion ratio perhaps.

Detail: right after a player from the opposing team is sent off 

[makavali]

1 hour ago, Litmanen 10 said:

Hasn't it always been? I used to do LLM in older versions of FM and it was always the same: one season per promotion until Championship that might take you 2-3 seasons before you reach the Premier League. 

I also tend to manage in Finland when summer starts and squads are up to date. My last attempt was with Rovaniemen Palloseura (RoPS) in FM 2019, I think. In real life that season squad was the worst that we have ever seen at the top tier in Finland but I easily won the league and also qualified to Europa League group stage. 

I did an identical save in Latvia this year and last year. The one I did last year is still my favorite save of all time, but this year I abandoned it. Never noticed LLM difficulty being an issue until FM24 

[xOGxTerror]

6 hours ago, themadsheep2001 said:

No outside of SI has any idea what the switch to Unity will do tbh. 

Well considering the game is about 8 months out they could give us some indications.... I really really do not understand a lot of the radio silence from SI. 

 

Are they truly satisfied that FM24 is the most complete version of FM to date?

[themadsheep2001]

3 minutes ago, xOGxTerror said:

Well considering the game is about 8 months out they could give us some indications.... I really really do not understand a lot of the radio silence from SI. 

 

Are they truly satisfied that FM24 is the most complete version of FM to date?

8 months is a long time and they are still in FM24s cycle, not sure we will see any FM25 news yet

[xOGxTerror]

5 hours ago, RDF Tactics said:

The feedback given just feels mostly ignored. 3 years ago I first asked for a glossary. Each FM since I have asked for a glossary lol now I don't think one should be created just because I asked for one but it's incredibly important. The more I ask, the more I feel that requests gets ignored and the more I poke for answers, I feel it's creating more of a distance between us hence why I now resort to putting this stuff publicly in a feedback thread. I was never this active in this thread but where else do I go?

OPPDA, I've also asked for that meaning and rather than getting a simple response of how FM records that in the game, I've had no answer to it.

Unfortunately it really does seem like SI do not want to give a glossary - and as they won't say to why, I think we can infer that it is because they do not want to have to explain how a lot of these systems work. I would assume because:

1. the games code is so convoluted and so patched together that they really do not understand how it all works together and there are many pieces of it they cannot truly explain because they don't really understand them completely. Either because the person who wrote the code is not employed anymore or because so many patches and parts have been added and amended it is impossible to know exactly what affects what else. Which I also think is why they have such trouble updating things without breaking or severely hurting other parts of the game. Ex: the current ME. 

2. They do not want the "veil to be lifted" as it will show a lot of these systems are quite funky and do not work as intended or work in the same way that real football records the data. A lot of stats in FM are very bizarre and don't seem to work as their real life counterparts do. Ex: passing competition, finishing conversion, woodwork hits, OPPDA etc.

 

I think people would respect them way more if they came out and gave a reason why they do not explain a lot of the in game systems. Even if that answer is because we cannot accurately describe them. It is just annoy that something so basic as a glossary is basically ignored, but many unneeded or un asked for features are constantly added. A squad planner...? really? Women's football...? How about explanations of how some of the stats are recorded.... 

[xOGxTerror]

13 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

8 months is a long time and they are still in FM24s cycle, not sure we will see any FM25 news yet

More just about an actual road map for the future. From everything SI has said about FM25, the engine update is mostly related to graphical features and does not seem related to the ME. https://www.footballmanager.com/news/future-football-manager

6 hours ago, whatsupdoc said:

The unity switch doesn't mean anything new for the ME. 

Judging from the amount of ME related bug reports with this status:

I'm not expecting a heap for the start of fm25. 

Which is what the original discussion we were referring to was about

 

[xOGxTerror]

I am back to FM23 but one thing I do think FM is still the best game in the world for - feeling like something I did actually changed the game.

 

There is nothing better than making a tactical tweak or substitution in a close game after noticing something while watching the ME, and that change having a positive outcome soon after. You feel like you are actually Pep Guardiola. Or choosing a new signing between a few different players, and that player coming in and really being the missing piece your team needed. You really do feel like what decisions you make have a real tangible outcome on the results. 

 

FM24 I found was quite easier than other years so it is less rewarding in that sense. Which is partially why I am back to FM23. But it is definitely part of the reason I put in 1000's of hours every year. When you get a save that you've worked for a long time on to turn good... nothing beats that feeling

[Jonthedon26]

18 hours ago, Matej said:

Ill tell you whats my main problem with FM 24. Its 2 easy. 

Ill try to be short in my explanation. 

1. i play control possession with high pressing, its my standard formation and tactic, i played like that in last 4-5 FM managers. 
2. i started in 3rd divison. i was first. next season i was 2nd in 2nd division, but over 100 points.
3. Now its my first season in First divison. There are at least 8 clubs that have much much better squad with great rotation players. Also around 6 other clubs with better players then mine. 

But even when i play against much stronger squads, im better team with many chances. Its crazy. 

Some things i do, just to speed up the game : i send  Assistent manager to all press c. I don't touch training and i dont touch set pieces. In my life i never opened some article with wonderkinds, what are best formations etc. Btw, all this people on youtube who are earning money to " help" people are frauds if you ask me. Game is easy, they are sellin you the story about great formations. You just need to take default formation control possession or even better gegenpress and you will have great results. I can take any other formation 2, but i dont like them. im sure ill have great results, as long as you stick to high pressing.  

I play on Key highlights. I dont even think about opponent and how they play. It doesnt matter. 

My point is, Im doin nothin special and im dominating every League i play. Why AI, who has much better squads then me, dont play for example similiar formation and tactic as mine? Do they play high pressing at all?  If the game is fair, AI should crush me with their better players. 

Im playin 30+ years FM/ CM, i never played so easy version in my life.  

I simply dont understand how someone who has lets say  5 years of experiance in FM, can find this game challenging. If you really have problems, send me PM and in 5 minutes ill tell you what to do and you must have good results. 

 

Ill put my formation and tactic. Its nothing special. So please can anyone from SI explain to me and others how im much better then AI controled teams and they have much better squads? i simply dont understand and all i can think is that game is rigged, that game gives much advantage to human player. I have no other explanation. 

From what I have seen on here and through my own experiences, if you play high pressing, high tempo tactics with a high defensive line and high line of engagement it is pretty easy to do well with any standard of team. 

[wazzaflow10]

7 hours ago, RDF Tactics said:

It literally makes no difference. Tried never tight mark but what happens is regardless, they run straight to their position when defending. So they run straight to RM and LM.

it’s also why you have a massive gap between your full backs and CBs. They focus on defending their position only - they don’t come in narrow and making your back line compact. AI often make runs in between.

The marking system I find it just mostly redundant.

it gives me the option for my DM to mark the ST position for example. When the match is playing, you never see the DM mark the ST position. 

The fullbacks definitely should take up more of a half space position when the ball is on the opposite side of the pitch. Its hard to decipher if its just a visual thing or if they're really marking a winger that tightly and leave a huge gap in the space there.

I tend to do specific player marking and that works reasonably well (usually trying to cover attacking or inverted wingbacks) imo. Terrified to do it with defensive players though for fear that it'll just pull them completely out of position.

[LolloViola]

Considering that my bug tracker entry is still “under review” since months, is there someone who still sees or found a solution to u21/u20 coaches making no subs at all and basically always using the same 11 players?

[Zachary Whyte]

4 hours ago, kiingallen said:

When does the winter patch usually release? 

As with previous years, the Winter Update will release in Late Feb/Early March.

[themadsheep2001]

1 hour ago, xOGxTerror said:

More just about an actual road map for the future. From everything SI has said about FM25, the engine update is mostly related to graphical features and does not seem related to the ME. https://www.footballmanager.com/news/future-football-manager

Which is what the original discussion we were referring to was about

 

Unity can do more than be part of graphics as its a game engine though so we'll have to wait and see. As I said, only SI will know exactly how they use it

[kiingallen]

24 minutes ago, Zachary Whyte said:

As with previous years, the Winter Update will release in Late Feb/Early March.

Thank you