Do you want the full release to be harder than the beta?

[mikcheck]

Hi guys, I have question.

I've been really enjoying the save I'm doing in beta. Any changes to the match engine or AI teams done in the full release  will affect the save or I'll have to start a new one to benefit from those changes?

Thanks!

Edited November 22, 2020 by mikcheck

[Junkhead]

Just now, mikcheck said:

Hi guys, I have question.

I've been really enjoying the save I'm doing in beta. Any changes to the match engine or AI teams done in the full release  will affect the save or will I have to start a new one?

Thanks!

All changes will be reflected in the full version if you continue your beta save with the possible exception of changes to competition and league rules.

[mikcheck]

6 minutos atrás, Junkhead disse:

All changes will be reflected in the full version if you continue your beta save with the possible exception of changes to competition and league rules.

Thanks. Good to know that any changes will be reflected in beta saves.

[EazyEee]

I'm glad this is being brought up more and more of late. Been a long time player of FM and I've felt the game get a whole lot more easy over the past 2 years.

I brought this years one and played the beta and am cruising in the Premier League with Fulham playing a fluid 433 counter, no crazy custom tactic, just the one in game.

Making the game harder will put the majority of FM players off, which is why a hard mode is the only logical step. Playing with Man Utd should not be an easy job, saying manage lower leagues doesn't change anything, it's not harder, just takes longer to get to the top.

[Junkhead]

Just now, EazyEee said:

I'm glad this is being brought up more and more of late. Been a long time player of FM and I've felt the game get a whole lot more easy over the past 2 years.

I brought this years one and played the beta and am cruising in the Premier League with Fulham playing a fluid 433 counter, no crazy custom tactic, just the one in game.

Making the game harder will put the majority of FM players off, which is why a hard mode is the only logical step. Playing with Man Utd should not be an easy job, saying manage lower leagues doesn't change anything, it's not harder, just takes longer to get to the top.

How would hard mode work then?

[Daveincid]

Gerade eben schrieb Junkhead:

How would hard mode work then?

play with your eyes closed?

[EazyEee]

Make squad building more realistic, improve AI managers ability to build squads and use more aggressive tactics. There are lots of ways of making a hard mode in a game, its hardly a groundbreaking feature.

[Junkhead]

9 minutes ago, EazyEee said:

Make squad building more realistic, improve AI managers ability to build squads and use more aggressive tactics. There are lots of ways of making a hard mode in a game, its hardly a groundbreaking feature.

That's not hard mode though. That should be happening anyway. Do you think the developer has an amazing AI module sat in a cupboard that they aren't using because no one has asked for hard mode?

 

[EazyEee]

If the game is too hard for casual players then its a problem as there are many many more casual players of FM looking to have fun getting a League 1 side to the UCL final, and that is completely fine, but there are also players who want FM to pose more of a challenge. How can one difficulty setting cater to both sets of players?

[Daveincid]

vor 5 Minuten schrieb EazyEee:

If the game is too hard for casual players then its a problem as there are many many more casual players of FM looking to have fun getting a League 1 side to the UCL final, and that is completely fine, but there are also players who want FM to pose more of a challenge. How can one difficulty setting cater to both sets of players?

I agree that this gap is difficult to manage. I mentioned earlier that there are ways to increase difficulty without create something unrealistic or cut back some options you have, and it has nothing to do with the ME or the AI in general. People cut back the AI on their own. For example: if they do not load all leagues to create a balanced world. This is a huge benefit, especially in terms of winning the CL. 

Edited November 22, 2020 by Daveincid

[Junkhead]

11 minutes ago, EazyEee said:

If the game is too hard for casual players then its a problem as there are many many more casual players of FM looking to have fun getting a League 1 side to the UCL final, and that is completely fine, but there are also players who want FM to pose more of a challenge. How can one difficulty setting cater to both sets of players?

You're right. And if there was a hard mode I would use it. But only if it didn't ruin the simulation aspect. So far no one has given any indication as to how it would work without doing that.

[Womaz]

47 minutes ago, Daveincid said:

play with your eyes closed?

Ah like Steve Bruces management in real life 

[Daveincid]

Gerade eben schrieb Womaz:

Ah like Steve Bruces management in real life 

don't know about that. I'm swiss Ciriaco Sforza here

[vukigepard]

5 hours ago, Broken_Record said:

 

I mean it's fairly common to see them playing with key highlights

This kind of gameplay should never be successful but sadly it has been for years. And the second bad thing is that SI have even collaborated with these kind of streamers. 

I don't care if you watch the game 90 minutes and micromanage, be successful or not if you can enjoy that i'm happy for you. But cmon, because i don't enjoy doing that i can't enjoy my game and be successful? The game loses it's value for a lot of people and that is hardly a goal for SI. 

I'll put it simply, nobody cares if you are successful, if i am successful, how are you successful, how am i successful, if some streamer is successful, no matter if it's a hyper realistic simulation, it's still a game.

When it comes to SI, they are succsessful because the game appeals to wide range of people, both people who like to micromanage, and people that don't want any of that.

So stop being so selfish and let people enjoy the game in a way they see fit, without questioning if some random streamer or player can be successful in a way they enjoy it.

[jase19]

Out of curiosity.  Anyone desiring "hard mode" ever won the Champions League with a Northern Ireland N/S league Club or something along those lines?  Actually *playing* the game, not simulating a season?  

[Broken_Record]

43 minutes ago, vukigepard said:

I don't care if you watch the game 90 minutes and micromanage, be successful or not if you can enjoy that i'm happy for you. But cmon, because i don't enjoy doing that i can't enjoy my game and be successful? The game loses it's value for a lot of people and that is hardly a goal for SI. 

If the game is going to be fairly easy for casual/lazy players, then what is it going to be for those who pay attention to details and actually use features of the game? 

I think I have told this many times already but the game developers have done a fantastic job with the features of the game, especially by making them really user friendly and easy to learn. And thanks to this, it would never be too much for them to ask us to actually learn to use these features and do sensible things if we want to be successful. 

I personally don't understand these type of messages that you are writing. No one is asking anyone to watch the full matches or suggesting features that take lot of time and effort to learn and use. 

Making the game better and more loyal to its original idea doesn't have anything to do with being selfishness. I'd rather say that your output on that side as basically you're saying that you like the game but I don't want to learn how to play it and SI needs to keep things that way so that I can keep winning. 

Edited November 22, 2020 by Broken_Record

[iAlwaysWin]

9 minutes ago, Broken_Record said:

If the game is going to be fairly easy for casual/lazy players, then what is it going to be for those who pay attention to details and actually use features of the game? 

I think I have told this many times already but the game developers have done a fantastic job with the features of the game, especially by making them really user friendly and easy to learn. And thanks to this, it would never be too much for them to ask us to actually learn to use these features and do sensible things if we want to be successful. 

I personally don't understand these type of messages that you are writing. No one is asking anyone to watch the full matches or suggesting features that take lot of time and effort to learn and use. 

Making the game better and more loyal to its original idea doesn't have anything to do with being selfishness. 

What Features do you mean? that they are not using but still being successful, Features that you are proposing must be used to get any kind of success according to you?

[HUNT3R]

I've had to hide a few posts. Please cut out the silliness and stick to the topic. Thanks.

[Broken_Record]

7 minutes ago, iAlwaysWin said:

What Features do you mean? that they are not using but still being successful, Features that you are proposing must be used to get any kind of success according to you?

The most simple answer would probably be something else than key highlights. Observing and reacting during matches should be a really important thing to do during both singular matches and also in a long run. And how do you do this if you're not seeing anything that is going on? 

[vukigepard]

1 minute ago, Broken_Record said:

The most simple answer would probably be something else than key highlights. Observing and reacting during matches should be a really important thing to do during both singular matches and also in a long run. And how do you do this if you're not seeing anything that is going on? 

Ok, that's true, but that is why you have all that data to observe, in the end, it's not about what you observe on the pitch, but what is in the data, the pitch always was, and is, because this is a game, representation of that data and calculations. People who make op tactics and publish them, are very good at reading this data, and tweaking it to the point of almost perfection that is translated to the most of the games that people don't have to use anything else but key highlights. And that just can't be in any way removed, as the game is mostly values, data and calculations regarding those two, i really can not see any solution to that except rng, which i think is a very bad idea for a number of reasons.

So, spotting details is a great thing, it should help you during the game and also in the long run and it does, but it's also great that someone who doesn't want to do it doesn't have to, because someone else already figured it out and shared that with a tactic.

I think the retail version will be a bigger challenge, as that was my experience with all the previous fm's, but i think what you are asking for is border impossible because there will always be a superior-dominant way of playing because it is a game where something amounts to the greatest calculation value of lots of combinations, except if the randomness is a greater factor.

[Broken_Record]

The only thing I am asking a more challenging AI, which would also change how we need to play the game if we want to be successful in it. I'm 100% sure that this would be benefitial to all of us and most of all for the game itself. 

But I think I have already put my thoughts into words quite well, so this is enough for me in this thread. 

Edited November 22, 2020 by Broken_Record

[Defensive]

vor 6 Stunden schrieb Neil Brock:

This version, as you're all aware, is a beta which means it is unfinished. We've very much appreciated all the feedback we've received across the entire game and due to this on full release there will be some changes, fixes and tweaks.

Whilst I'm not in a position to go into specifics (and can confirm there 100% is not an AI difficulty dial we can turn up or down) we'll be interested to see how people find the game post full release.

Thanks.

Why are you not in this position? Anyway this sounds promising to me. I understand that SI has to make the game easy enough for casual players but i also think its not in their interest to make the game THAT easy. Even casual players want challenge to some degree.

 

But still i would very much like to read from people who actually think this beta is not too easy? Because in the poll 42% vote for no its okay as it is. Reading the comments here i would think its more 5%? So maybe some people could write about their failure in their beta career to get a more even picture? Anyone?

[Kotlovina]

1 hour ago, vukigepard said:

I don't care if you watch the game 90 minutes and micromanage, be successful or not if you can enjoy that i'm happy for you. But cmon, because i don't enjoy doing that i can't enjoy my game and be successful? The game loses it's value for a lot of people and that is hardly a goal for SI. 

I'll put it simply, nobody cares if you are successful, if i am successful, how are you successful, how am i successful, if some streamer is successful, no matter if it's a hyper realistic simulation, it's still a game.

When it comes to SI, they are succsessful because the game appeals to wide range of people, both people who like to micromanage, and people that don't want any of that.

So stop being so selfish and let people enjoy the game in a way they see fit, without questioning if some random streamer or player can be successful in a way they enjoy it.

You're talking rubbish. What's the point of winning all the time? To make someone feel better after a long day. You set tactics and we win. The purpose of this game is to keep an eye on the details and have some challenges. Not that in a season you have two defeats with no tactics just to be happy.

[vukigepard]

1 minute ago, Kotlovina said:

You're talking rubbish. What's the point of winning all the time? To make someone feel better after a long day. You set tactics and we win. The purpose of this game is to keep an eye on the details and have some challenges. Not that in a season you have two defeats with no tactics just to be happy.

I'm not winning all the time, and even if i was, it has nothing to do with you or the way you play, or the way you think the fm should be played. Even the option to delegate everything tactical to assistant manager suggests that this is a game that could be played in a number of ways, you can set up variety of goals you want to achieve, or things you want to do. Because you enjoy tweaking tactics and micromanaging and that is your main interest, doesn't mean it should be my point of enjoying the game and that i should be what, devoid of enjoyment and success because i don't want to play the game in a way you snowflakes want and think it should be played specifically taylored for your and yours only liking. I already explained why there will always be, as for all fm versions, something that that has bigger calculation value in a combination than anything else, 1 approach that will give results most of the time, and that's how it is for every game except if the randomness is a greater factor. For someone who is a experienced fm player, of course you are good in the game with the same foundation where you sank 1000's of hours. Learn to entertain yourself in some other way in fm or move on, real life is quite challenging for itself.

AI could be better, it isn't right now, and nothing constructive has been contributed

But no

"The game should be played in THIS specific way to have success as this is how it was meant to be played" 

Disgusting, i hope the mods close this thread as it's been nothing but pointless flame wars for a few pages now without anything constructive, including my posts.

[GhostMegi]

Even though I am on FM20 I gotta say that my first season ever went surprisingly good, since I got promoted (predicted to finish 8th) without using "exploit tactics" or save scumming.

I followed this and other threads regarding this topic and imo it would definitely make sense to add difficulty levels in future versions. By that everybody would be happy, casual players as well as veterans. Personally I see no good reason not to add this feature even though I know it's probably not easy to implement. Some people might say FM is a simulation and therefore it shouldn't have difficulty levels, but as we know there are already many simulation games with difficulty levels and at the end of the day we are still talking about a computer game (which should offer some challenge).

I don't like handicapping myself by doing random challenges, I prefer the AI to challenge me and I guess there are many people out there who think the same. 

[Junkhead]

27 minutes ago, vukigepard said:

I'm not winning all the time, and even if i was, it has nothing to do with you or the way you play, or the way you think the fm should be played. Even the option to delegate everything tactical to assistant manager suggests that this is a game that could be played in a number of ways, you can set up variety of goals you want to achieve, or things you want to do. Because you enjoy tweaking tactics and micromanaging and that is your main interest, doesn't mean it should be my point of enjoying the game and that i should be what, devoid of enjoyment and success because i don't want to play the game in a way you snowflakes want and think it should be played specifically taylored for your and yours only liking. I already explained why there will always be, as for all fm versions, something that that has bigger calculation value in a combination than anything else, 1 approach that will give results most of the time, and that's how it is for every game except if the randomness is a greater factor. For someone who is a experienced fm player, of course you are good in the game with the same foundation where you sank 1000's of hours. Learn to entertain yourself in some other way in fm or move on, real life is quite challenging for itself.

AI could be better, it isn't right now, and nothing constructive has been contributed

But no

"The game should be played in THIS specific way to have success as this is how it was meant to be played" 

Disgusting, i hope the mods close this thread as it's been nothing but pointless flame wars for a few pages now without anything constructive, including my posts.

This is the point I got to in this thread a day or so ago but there's now a third thread that I worry will descend into this.

People just need to post evidence in the bugs forum of where it is too easy for the Devs to look at and crack on.

[Junkhead]

24 minutes ago, GhostMegi said:

Even though I am on FM20 I gotta say that my first season ever went surprisingly good, since I got promoted (predicted to finish 8th) without using "exploit tactics" or save scumming.

I followed this and other threads regarding this topic and imo it would definitely make sense to add difficulty levels in future versions. By that everybody would be happy, casual players as well as veterans. Personally I see no good reason not to add this feature even though I know it's probably not easy to implement. Some people might say FM is a simulation and therefore it shouldn't have difficulty levels, but as we know there are already many simulation games with difficulty levels and at the end of the day we are still talking about a computer game (which should offer some challenge).

I don't like handicapping myself by doing random challenges, I prefer the AI to challenge me and I guess there are many people out there who think the same. 

The AI should provide you with a challenge, completely right. 

But as I said in another thread earlier - the AI in the game right now is at peak AI as far as the developer is concerned. It's not like they've got a super difficult AI module that they're just not using knocking about.

Because there is no better AI module, the only way the developer could bring "hard mode" into the game is by putting the user at a disadvantage by overpowering the opposition.

And no matter how much people go on about that, there is no way SI will do it.

 

[Kotlovina]

43 minutes ago, vukigepard said:

I'm not winning all the time, and even if i was, it has nothing to do with you or the way you play, or the way you think the fm should be played. Even the option to delegate everything tactical to assistant manager suggests that this is a game that could be played in a number of ways, you can set up variety of goals you want to achieve, or things you want to do. Because you enjoy tweaking tactics and micromanaging and that is your main interest, doesn't mean it should be my point of enjoying the game and that i should be what, devoid of enjoyment and success because i don't want to play the game in a way you snowflakes want and think it should be played specifically taylored for your and yours only liking. I already explained why there will always be, as for all fm versions, something that that has bigger calculation value in a combination than anything else, 1 approach that will give results most of the time, and that's how it is for every game except if the randomness is a greater factor. For someone who is a experienced fm player, of course you are good in the game with the same foundation where you sank 1000's of hours. Learn to entertain yourself in some other way in fm or move on, real life is quite challenging for itself.

AI could be better, it isn't right now, and nothing constructive has been contributed

But no

"The game should be played in THIS specific way to have success as this is how it was meant to be played" 

Disgusting, i hope the mods close this thread as it's been nothing but pointless flame wars for a few pages now without anything constructive, including my posts.

We see on the forum that there are more who find the game easy. These are people who have been playing for over 15 years who know what they're talking about and who are always there. They are loyal players and need a little listen.

This situation, in which it is easy to win, suits youtubers who use their videos to attract young audiences and a large mass of other players. What finally brings you money and what's right. But we should because of this majority that says the game is easy, it still improves. They probably spent hours playing too to know it was easy. They know best what needs to be changed so don't do the jokes and what you would change.

If you want an easy game, play fifa or peso. Fm has always been a tactical and analytic game in which no matter how good you are, it's not easy to win. Let's keep it that way. We want a challenge.

[Junkhead]

Just now, Kotlovina said:

We see on the forum that there are more who find the game easy. These are people who have been playing for over 15 years who know what they're talking about and who are always there. They are loyal players and need a little listen.

This situation, in which it is easy to win, suits youtubers who use their videos to attract young audiences and a large mass of other players. What finally brings you money and what's right. But we should because of this majority that says the game is easy, it still improves. They probably spent hours playing too to know it was easy. They know best what needs to be changed so don't do the jokes and what you would change.

If you want an easy game, play fifa or peso. Fm has always been a tactical and analytic game in which no matter how good you are, it's not easy to win. Let's keep it that way. We want a challenge.

Difficulty modes are never going to be added.

Who do you play as? 

[Kotlovina]

7 minutes ago, Junkhead said:

Difficulty modes are never going to be added.

Who do you play as? 

I'm not into difficulty mode. As I wrote above. Developers know that the game is easy because they have spent a whole year playing. They should also know how to change it. I've never used any tactics or add-ons so you might think that's why the game is easy for me.

[vukigepard]

3 minutes ago, Kotlovina said:

We see on the forum that there are more who find the game easy. These are people who have been playing for over 15 years who know what they're talking about and who are always there. They are loyal players and need a little listen.

This situation, in which it is easy to win, suits youtubers who use their videos to attract young audiences and a large mass of other players. What finally brings you money and what's right. But we should because of this majority that says the game is easy, it still improves. They probably spent hours playing too to know it was easy. They know best what needs to be changed so don't do the jokes and what you would change.

If you want an easy game, play fifa or peso. Fm has always been a tactical and analytic game in which no matter how good you are, it's not easy to win. Let's keep it that way. We want a challenge.

1. I'm a loyal player that has played fm over 10 years. No need to explain to me what is fm exactly and how i've been in denial for a decade

2. Look at all the people playing fm21 on steam right now that don't come to this specific forum and moan about the game being easy. Far from majority.

3. I don't care about the youtubers playing their own game and sharing it.

4. I don't have a problem with this game, you do, and about 250 players out of many thousands that don't. You don't tell me what to play and how to play, i won't tell you what to play and how to play, fair and easy.

5. I have a feeling that you haven't played beta before, beta is always somehow easier than the actual release game, at least my experience.

[Junkhead]

1 minute ago, Kotlovina said:

I'm not into difficulty mode. As I wrote above. Developers know that the game is easy because they have spent a whole year playing. They should also know how to change it. I've never used any tactics or add-ons so you might think that's why the game is easy for me.

Fair enough, think I misunderstood 👍

[Daveincid]

vor 32 Minuten schrieb Kotlovina:

I'm not into difficulty mode. As I wrote above. Developers know that the game is easy because they have spent a whole year playing. They should also know how to change it. I've never used any tactics or add-ons so you might think that's why the game is easy for me.

Just out of curiosity, have the devs wrote that somewhere that they know the game is easy? Would be nice to see this

Edited November 22, 2020 by Daveincid

[GhostMegi]

44 minutes ago, Junkhead said:

Difficulty modes are never going to be added.

When did SI actually state that? 

And by the way, personally I wouldn't have a problem with buffing the AI on a potential hard mode because somehow the imbalance between the experienced human players and the AI needs to be eliminated (until the AI actually improves). Especially the moral management of the human players creates a big advantage, which could be balanced by improving the moral of the opposite team (or by temporarily increasing the key stats of the opponents by one(?) point).

Edited November 22, 2020 by GhostMegi

[Junkhead]

Just now, GhostMegi said:

When did SI actually state that? Just out of curiosity.

And by the way, personally I wouldn't have a problem with buffing the AI on a potential hard mode because somehow the imbalance between the experienced human players and the AI needs to be eliminated (until the AI actually improves). Especially the moral management of the human players creates a big advantage, which could be balanced by improving the moral of the opposite team (or by temporarily increasing the key stats of the opponents by one(?) point).

They've said it on a number of occasions on this forum and I'm sure I've seen Miles say so on twitter.

Harder AI should be in the main game. I don't think buffing the AI Vs the player will fit with the simulation type world they are trying to create.

[Daveincid]

vor 4 Minuten schrieb GhostMegi:

When did SI actually state that? 

And by the way, personally I wouldn't have a problem with buffing the AI on a potential hard mode because somehow the imbalance between the experienced human players and the AI needs to be eliminated (until the AI actually improves). Especially the moral management of the human players creates a big advantage, which could be balanced by improving the moral of the opposite team (or by temporarily increasing the key stats of the opponents by one(?) point).

Look at @JordanMillward_1 's comment. I am quite sure he wouldn't write it that clear without having some more informations as we do.

[GhostMegi]

53 minutes ago, Daveincid said:

Look at @JordanMillward_1 's comment. I am quite sure he wouldn't write it that clear without having some more informations as we do.

I see, thank you. It's really a shame in my opinion. 

[Daveincid]

vor 6 Minuten schrieb GhostMegi:

I see, thank you. It's really a shame in my opinion. 

I don't share your opinion, but I really appreciate that you accept the fact, that it is how it is, respect! 

[EazyEee]

Pretty much have come to realisation that the game will probably be as easy last last season after playing out the Beta some more, seems just as easy to maintain perfect moral throughout the year - same praise player for training etc - The new additions are cool, new ME plays better and for the vast majority of players its a good upgrade.

 

But rather than expend any more energy on it, I've gotten a refund and will be checking out of FM for a while.

[snafubar]

its not easier so far but ive not used gegenpress yet.

[Junkhead]

18 minutes ago, snafubar said:

its not easier so far but ive not used gegenpress yet.

[Wavelberry]

'S'cool. It's not overpowered. If you're Wycombe...

[Spallo]

Hello guys,

after having read the entire thread, I think there ist a profound misunderstanding what FM is and, a different thing, has become over the last 10 years or so ...

let me elaborate in three sections. At first smth about me and then the misunderstandings.

1. I am litterally the so called casual player. A 39 year old divorced dad of two, with a third newborn on my hands with my new wife. Luckily I have a homeoffice job (even without covid) which earns me decent money in a half days work and I can play games as a hobby, for one or two hours a day   And I will say this ... it is insulting to casuals, if they get blamed fpr wanting FM to be easy. I dont and I hardly think the majority of casuals want that either.

Last FM i played was 2014 (before 2010) and I was mostly terrible at it. Had the thought for some time to come back and now it was time for me to jump into the new FM and see what it has become. Started a unemployed safe with a no experience manager ... got a job at Alta IF in the norwegian third division (where I had a 38 yeah olf Morten Gamst Pedersen to my surprise ). Season goal was top half finish and I thought, yeah weill, lets see about this. I competed for promotion but in the and didnt made the playoffs and got exactly the media prediction. I make my own tactics and dont watch any "cheat" stuff ... so thats on my own. So I did overachieve in a sense, that I was better than I thought, but not better than the game thought I should.

2. The first misunderstanding in my opinion is the way people thing FM is too easy. Have in mind, that I dont know the versions of 15 till 20. FM has come a long way till now and gives sunday footballers like me far better tools to beat the game. Like some dude earlier said ... SI made the tools far more accessible and understandable and I would argue way more intuitive and ultimatly more realistic. I dont have to study slider science aymore, which is great, because it was such an arbitrary concept of trying to picture complex football. Now we do what most managers or head coaches do ... we can give general instructions to players or the whole squad. That works for almost every other aspect of the game espacially training ...

My point is ... the game in general is not easier than before, but the tools for understanding it gotten way better. I think its fair to say, that the AI should have improved with it, but hasnt in a way to counter the benifits of the better tools. I get that some hardcore players dont like that and in the long run I wont either. But for FM in general this is a great development, because it means, that more realism has come to the game. I think dannysheard is no better real life manager than me, but better at understanding the game mechanics ... his edge is way thinner now and that means the game design towards realism works perfectly fine. Thats oversimplistic, but I think you guys get the point.

3. Perhaps the greater problem is, what people think FM to be. It is no life simulator, it is still a (complex) game, that can be beaten. And, maybe more important, it is and will always be a sandbox and a quite good one at that. There is no point in arguing it is too easy, because every game gets easy at some point. For example ... If you play EU4, another extreme complicated sandbox, then at first you will get crushed most of the time. You get better, better still and then better still and in the end go on with albania to rule the world. The AI is decent in this game and can be very challenging, but if you learn the mechanics, use the synergies and do everything right, then you are a god in this game. FM is pretty similiar, because the hardcore players are gods in this game and can do whatever they want with every team. I dont know how many are out there, but there is nothing that can satisfy you and I will guarantee you, that more RNG is not of your liking and I wohl say even a boost fpr the AI will not, because you cant blame yourself if you loose. The only solution for you guys is to move on and become a real life manager 

 

That being said and my humble opinion ... I want the game actually be a bit harder in post beta and I do see the problems of overachieving. But I do also think ... If you play like me, start at the very bottom, no skills, attribute masking on etc. then you will have a challenge no matter what. And yeah, eventually you I win the CL with whatever garbage team, but despite all flaws I dont get it handed to me 

 

see ya

[daveh83]

When will game update to full version will be it midnight tonight ?

[FrazT]

5 minutes ago, daveh83 said:

When will game update to full version will be it midnight tonight ?

Nobody apart from SI have any clue when the full game will be released and they will not reveal that till it happens.  It is pointless to speculate.

[Bruce Drundrige]

My two cents, without having read the thread and this may have been mentioned already, is that it can be as hard as you want it to be. For the beta, I've only played the Youth Academy challenge, starting as a previously unplayable team in the Scottish League 2.

I only had 15 players, including 1 GK and 2 CDs...one of whom left in January. I was sacked in February. I don't think I've ever been sacked without an ultimatum before.

I immediately started the challenge again in a different country. Great fun trying to make it work based on the strict parameters set. 

If it's too easy for you - a) well done and b) maybe try something completely different within the game. Can you win the Champions League with Greenock Morton (please)? Can you win something with a team of homegrown players? Can you get San Marino to the World Cup? 

[Christmas]

I am one of those posting saying too easy.

I also just got destroyed 9-0 in La Liga Cup semi final second game tie leg round after victory over them 4-3 in previous leg round by Athletico Madrid - with same tactic I use every game.

As set out in my previous posts, every game my players warn me tactic leaves exposed at back. Most games I'm correct. Today they are correct!

[GOODNAME]

1 hour ago, daveh83 said:

When will game update to full version will be it midnight tonight ?

Every year its at midnight , but in there are lot of bugs in this BETA so maybe it will not be tomorrow at midnight 

[redders1977]

12 hours ago, Kotlovina said:

We see on the forum that there are more who find the game easy. These are people who have been playing for over 15 years who know what they're talking about and who are always there. They are loyal players and need a little listen.

This situation, in which it is easy to win, suits youtubers who use their videos to attract young audiences and a large mass of other players. What finally brings you money and what's right. But we should because of this majority that says the game is easy, it still improves. They probably spent hours playing too to know it was easy. They know best what needs to be changed so don't do the jokes and what you would change.

If you want an easy game, play fifa or peso. Fm has always been a tactical and analytic game in which no matter how good you are, it's not easy to win. Let's keep it that way. We want a challenge.

I've been playing since Championship Manager days and I don't find it easy at all.

Who are you to tell people to play FIFA instead of Football Manager? 

[TheVerySpecialOne]

I talked to a friend from work who has also played the beta and he said that he found the game boring, he played with fiorentina and after 15 games he was unbeaten, 12 wins, 3 draws, 1st place. I haven't really played beta that much, but I hope the full game will be more difficult because it's obviously a thing.