*Official* Football Manager 2013 Constructive non-ME Feedback Thread

[Silverx]

The DCL begins to move for the outpass just as the MC loses the ball. The DCR seems to be expecting the pass to the DR, then misses his tackle as he tries to react. Neither seems to anticipate that the MC will lose the ball. Bug or just bad anticipation? Given the level, I'm tempted to assume the latter.

It happens with a high frequency even at higher levels and also in clearer situations where defenders have sev. seconds to react, but don't - would be inclined to think it's an ME issue. Also, why does the defender attempt to react by shuffling from side to side?!

[Sarin1]

to the people saying "its your tactics" and such.

Its not. Its the Match Engine and its glaring faults as outlined so many times above by so many posters.

Im currently 13 points out in front in the EPL title race, im smashing the champions league.

Ive already figured out how to manipulate the match engine to win, ive lost 1 game in the league.

My team has highest goals scored and least goals conceeded by far.

But the Match engine is horribly bad, i had one of my players dribble past 4 opposition defenders who jogged next to him to score.

[WizbaII]

I do like the way the new training works, but the coaches page is designed poorly. They should just design it similar to how it looked in FM 12. Before you could all at all the coaches' stats at once. Now you need to click on each coach individually to see what the stats are...why? They made the design worse for no reason...it's not like there's even a new feature on that particular page to warrant the change. Plus, all the stars at the bottom seem to overlap each other. It's a lot easier for human eyes to make comparisons top to bottom than left to right...

Please fix, SI

[sean_lufc]

I agree. Feels like I'm watching a game of hockey the way the ball just glides so lightly over the pitch, maybe that's just my fast game speed but it's definitely worse.

Looks very weird.

Yep.

Like a game of air hockey at times. Awful.

[Rainfall]

The DCL begins to move for the outpass just as the MC loses the ball. The DCR seems to be expecting the pass to the DR, then misses his tackle as he tries to react. Neither seems to anticipate that the MC will lose the ball. Bug or just bad anticipation? Given the level, I'm tempted to assume the latter.

Oh come on. There is defending the engine, and defending the engine. First of all. The way the Cm pisses about on the ball is ridiculous on any level, and if the pressing was supposed to work with everyone pushing up, then maybe that would suffice. However the way it was presented, there's no way he would have lost the ball there. However, if you can watch that replay and not pinpoint how ridiculous the action of the RCB were, i don't know what to say. The RCB sees the ball coming, but just shuffles sideways until the forward has gone past him. There is no attempt to intercept the ball. If there is, the match engine isn't communicating that in any way , shape or form.

[wwfan]

Oh come on. There is defending the engine, and defending the engine. First of all. The way the Cm pisses about on the ball is ridiculous on any level, and if the pressing was supposed to work with everyone pushing up, then maybe that would suffice. However the way it was presented, there's no way he would have lost the ball there. However, if you can watch that replay and not pinpoint how ridiculous the action of the RCB were, i don't know what to say. The RCB sees the ball coming, but just shuffles sideways until the forward has gone past him. There is no attempt to intercept the ball. If there is, the match engine isn't communicating that in any way , shape or form.

That's not how I see it at all, I'm afraid. He looks for the pass to the left, eventually decides it isn't on, so turns and looks for the DR. The DCL reacts to that turn by trying to provide a deep outpass. The DCR seems to be assuming the pass will be made. You can clearly see him turn and look at the DR. The ballplayer then loses the ball and the DCR fails to recover in time.

I realise that everything is subjective, but you need to watch the tiniest of movements to determine where players are looking and what they are trying to do. Yes, it is bad play, but no, it is not indicative of a broken ME. It is just bad play.

I fully accept that the lack of support pressing is bad.

[Sarin1]

Sorry wwfan but for you to come out and just say that and defend the rest of the match engine just shows your moderator tag.

There are so many instances of the match engine failing, like 2 defenders standing next to a striker, who gets the ball, runs through both of them, they dont even move, and then after he is gone they slowly at half his speed jog behind him which he rushes on to score.

Or when you have 4 players back, and the striker beats your left back who doesnt even challenge, and the other 3 who have no one else to mark, nothing else to do, just job back towards the goal line, not even in his direction, just back.

When a player has 3 clear options on, and passes to no one, but stands still till tackled directly from behind.

You can imagine that its him looking around with a blindfold on, but its not. The game just doesnt flow.

I play 4-2-4-0 with 2 DMs and 4 AMs. The match engine is broken, it cant cope, you dont lose.

Ive watched Xavi (im not barca, playing against them) stand still for a good 20 seconds, with Iniesta, Fabregas or Alves all open, stand still for 20 seconds, to be tackled from behind, the ball passed to another player, who should have to beat 3 defenders to score, but who just walks through the unresponsive ghosts to tap the ball home.

I restarted that match because it just sucks to win that way, via a ME that is very poor.

[iMan]

The games quality.

[Kingstontom88]

I'm enjoying the game. The generally more immersed gameplay makes it more rewarding when things go well.

Tinkering with training and tactics has finally paid off for me in my Shrewsbury save. I tried, much like many others have, to input my favourite FM 12 tactic into the game but it just wasn't really working. We couldn't break down defences and the gaps between my defence and midfield were exposed quite often. Defending from set-pieces was also poor but some work on that in training has aided it slightly.

Since a home defeat to the only side lower than us in the league (Brentford 3-2) I knew things had to change. Since then, I have won 5 out of 5 in the league, 4 of them away from home Doncaster and Coventry involved. I find I'm tinkering with tactics for each game, I like the team report prior to games I find it more useful now it's a bit more in depth. As we are tipped to go down I sit very deep and narrow and frustrate teams, we have a good CM who distributes well a very talented RW and pacey strong forwards and it's working well for now but I know I will need to change again soon as teams will adapt to this.

An only gripe is the match engine. Goals seem a bit repetitive and winning the ball in your own half seems a rarity when I watch extended highlights. Still, it's been revamped and I think with a few patches it will get better.

[Candre168]

Look, I don't claim to be excellent at this game or anything like that. I may well be absolutely useless. I'm not going to go on some silly rant blaming SI because I'm not very good. However, I think it's absolutely ridiculous and unfair that I'm not allowed to enjoy the game at my own level and learn the game at my own pace because there is no difficulty level. Every game known to mankind has some sort of way you can adjust the difficulty except FM.

Now I've got a game that I've spent £30 that I can't play because I'll lose every game. I've just been sacked from my fourth save. Not much fun is it?

Again, I'm not going to claim to be any good at this game. But I don't see why I shouldn't be allowed to simply enjoy the game with my favourite club managing things on my own level till I become good enough at the game to attempt to play it on more difficult/realistic levels.

Especially this year that the way the ME works has changed so much and so many people are finding it more difficult. It just seems like common sense to me...

[TheGull8559]

Has this minor bug been reported?

[biffykins]

One thing I find frustrating is that the tactical familiarity resets after the season ends. I've been using pretty much the same tactics since the start of my first season, now going into the second season I have to wait for the matches to accumulate before the tactics are up to full familiarity & effectiveness. This makes little sense to me and goes against trying to establish a style of play that becomes the club's style of play - for example the philosophy of Barcelona or Arsenal. Can't remember if it worked this way in previous versions, I suspect it probably did, but given the other challenges there appear to be in this release of the game it is something I was hoping to get some small relief from.

Aside from this I'm finding the game a bit more difficult than previous versions, then again I am playing Liverpool who do face quite a few problems.

[WizbaII]

Look, I don't claim to be excellent at this game or anything like that. I may well be absolutely useless. I'm not going to go on some silly rant blaming SI because I'm not very good. However, I think it's absolutely ridiculous and unfair that I'm not allowed to enjoy the game at my own level and learn the game at my own pace because there is no difficulty level. Every game known to mankind has some sort of way you can adjust the difficulty except FM.

Now I've got a game that I've spent £30 that I can't play because I'll lose every game. I've just been sacked from my fourth save. Not much fun is it?

Again, I'm not going to claim to be any good at this game. But I don't see why I shouldn't be allowed to simply enjoy the game with my favourite club managing things on my own level till I become good enough at the game to attempt to play it on more difficult/realistic levels.

Especially this year that the way the ME works has changed so much and so many people are finding it more difficult. It just seems like common sense to me...

Use a big team. It'll make the game easier. Most FM players aren't good enough to do otherwise, I suspect. But over the years, you start to be able to win with smaller teams.

[Welshace]

It's the idea that at the end of the season, the team has a break and doesn't train day in day out, this would mean their ease of playing together and that sort of telepathic element of knowing exactly what to do and when slacks off and they need to get back to playing every day to become familiar again with each others game.

[omaroo]

I'm curious to know do you guys get alot of crashes on the new game.

[Flohrinho]

Just noticed the same exact thing. Only 2 opponents in my own penalty area and my two CMs drop back waaaaaaay to the penalty spot area (one of them even deeper) leaving midfielders from the opposite team and the whole 16-25m area completely free.

4s before a goal. 2 opponents, 7 of my players in the area around them. Marked my CMs (of the is Ball Winning Midfielder).

5s later, number 8 passes to 10, shot on goal, GOAL. Where were my CM? Ridiculous.

I think what you are seeing here is problem with man marking and tight marking, it happens less of often with zonal marking and no tight marking active I found.

The problem is that at some point the opposition strikers enter the defensive sphere of your CMs or DMs and the man/tight marking kicks in for your midfielders to mark the strikers, despite there being already players to mark them.

I think SI tried to improve on the fact that last FM CMs weren't helping much in defending at all, so they improved that part and now they help in defense a lot more.

Probably a bit too much because they leave the space in front of the defenders painfully open and if the opposition has a good CM with decent long shooting this can be very dangerous.

CMs really could use some fine tuning, their closing down seems weird at times and they all too often mark the wrong and already marked players, so I hope SI works a little more on their behavior.

[isignedupfornorealreason]

Defending needs some sorting out. I'm testing 13's tactic creation wizard and I'm not impressed yet.

12 had the balance just right, you could throw on a 4-4-2 and actually have it work regardless of talent. You could then use that as a template to switch to a 4-3-3 and various other formations (tell me I suck cos of my tactics and I'll flip a table on your head, I'm plenty sufficient with tactics thank you.) However 13's tactical set up is flawed, but I'm not entirely sure it's the tactics themselves but a lackadaisal match engine or results generator.

It's frequently common to see 3-5 goals in the space of five minutes. Defending is dire, it's very common to have entire stretches of the pitch empty but for the opposition. There are occassions where a centreback steps so far forward of his man for no reason whatsoever when it needs to be a well timed run being shown. There are passes that are so obvious to children that the players don't pick out, or passes that continue to bounce off completely oblivious players. Some players seem to go walkabout, but really, I don't think the ME is touched up enough.

Bottom line is, defending really needs patching up. The midfielders in particular go so far back there's a swimming pool between them and the strikers.

On another note; because of the defending fiasco I can't really tell if it's the players, the tactic or just bizarre results. For example, I've slaughtered Manchester City in their own back yard 2-4, drew with Arsenal 0-0, yet in between I flop to a rock bottom, no morale, poor Sunderland team at home and I get caned 10-0 by anything at the bottom of the dredges of the table. I've no idea if it's team talks or whatever, but that's mainly because there's no real rhyme or reason to the results in 13 at the moment. I'm not confident of a win, I'm not seeing (beside poor defending, yes I need to say it again) as to why I'm losing.

12 had it on the money, it was obvious where problems occured. 13's problems are so obvious but so unrelated to human input at the moment it's really a lottery shot for me. I'll persist but it needs serious fixing.

In any case I'm Wigan btw and at the moment nearly end of the 1st season and 6th. =D Not too shabby.

[Butters76]

On team report why can the "best" player be listed 3rd?

Never saw that on FM 12

IE: for striker 1st has 4 stars, 2nd has 3 stars and 3rd has 4.5 stars

[kizofieva]

There's currently a bug where the Strength Overview tab shows their potential star ratings. Click Position Strength or Roles to see the correct current hierarchy.

[Butters76]

Another annoying thing is when you try to make an offer for a transferlisted player the default bid starts at his value, not the asking price, so you have to manually lower the bid to their asking price.

Just minor things, but figured it was best to mention it anyway since one of the devs said they wanted us to report even known bugs.

[gate]

Lacking of pressing in midfielder is a huge problem in ME of 2013 imo. It results most on ME issue we have thus far. They are

1. Too many pass completed by midfielder, even when they are not capable to do so. Every team looks like Barca.

2. DM is useless in defending. Change from 4231 to 451, replacing a AM with DM won't strength your defense. Most of time the extra DM will sit deep and watching opposite passing around.

I had a game showing DMs didn't function as they should be. Playing Dortmund 4231 with Flamingo. They adapted 4222, 2 DM and 2CM without any wide attacking player. At the end I completely dominating them, enjoyed near 70% of possession. Had 19 SOT and scored 2. They had 1 SOT and scored none. In most of high-light, my midfielders pass to each other easily and try to break their defense in the final third. TBH, I was expecting a hard fight in the center of midfield but it end up a one side game favor to me.

I do like FM2013 a lot. But ME still has much room to improve. But don't even think about going back to FM2012, SI, because we are already in the right direction.

[Johnnyhugs]

What is going on?

[Flohrinho]

What is going on?

Barca doing a synchronized formation moonwalk?

[Sancho Panza]

On team report why can the "best" player be listed 3rd?

Never saw that on FM 12

IE: for striker 1st has 4 stars, 2nd has 3 stars and 3rd has 4.5 stars

I think this is a bug that has been reported when some players are rated by their potential ability, while others are rated based on their current ability.

[biffykins]

It's the idea that at the end of the season, the team has a break and doesn't train day in day out, this would mean their ease of playing together and that sort of telepathic element of knowing exactly what to do and when slacks off and they need to get back to playing every day to become familiar again with each others game.

I guess, there would be a small measure of this, but you would expect them to "snap back" into things pretty quickly. Unless you set tactics to the main focus this doesn't appear to happen. It is like they completely forgot how to play last season, despite it bringing success and only minor additions to the squad being made.

[PaulC]

Sorry wwfan but for you to come out and just say that and defend the rest of the match engine just shows your moderator tag.

There are so many instances of the match engine failing, like 2 defenders standing next to a striker, who gets the ball, runs through both of them, they dont even move, and then after he is gone they slowly at half his speed jog behind him which he rushes on to score.

Or when you have 4 players back, and the striker beats your left back who doesnt even challenge, and the other 3 who have no one else to mark, nothing else to do, just job back towards the goal line, not even in his direction, just back.

When a player has 3 clear options on, and passes to no one, but stands still till tackled directly from behind.

You can imagine that its him looking around with a blindfold on, but its not. The game just doesnt flow.

I play 4-2-4-0 with 2 DMs and 4 AMs. The match engine is broken, it cant cope, you dont lose.

Ive watched Xavi (im not barca, playing against them) stand still for a good 20 seconds, with Iniesta, Fabregas or Alves all open, stand still for 20 seconds, to be tackled from behind, the ball passed to another player, who should have to beat 3 defenders to score, but who just walks through the unresponsive ghosts to tap the ball home.

I restarted that match because it just sucks to win that way, via a ME that is very poor.

If you upload or email me the pkm file I'll gladly take a look and feed back to you.

[PaulC]

What is going on?

Ditto here - upload or email me the pkm and I'll make sure it's fixed next update.

[funkcanna]

Ok after playing 2 full seasons this is the feedback I would like to provide:

Media

The overall feeling I get from the media aspect of the game is that it is completely dumb. Repeated irrelevant questions are starting to annoy me. For example, over a 2 leg fixture in which I win the first tie, lose the second but win the overall tie, I always get asked about the win, AND about the loss. The questions go completely against each other. I could list specific examples but there are too many to focus on. Plainly put, the media question and responses for post and pre game needs a complete overhaul.

Talking to Players

This is another "interaction" part of the game which is totally dumb. For example I have a player is is constantly unhappy even though he plays in my first team and we've just won the league. When I try to talk to him about his happiness, the option to do so is always greyed out. Why? I want to know why he is unhappy. His personal details say he IS happy, yet his morale is through the floor.

Talking About Other Managers/Teams

Most of the options I want to say are greyed out. In my back room meetings, I am advised to discuss a teams poor form, yet when I try to, all options are greyed out and I can only talk about the same boring things.

Overall the entire interactions area of the game is, in my opinion, broken and dumb.

Match Expectations

There is a huge gap between the odds of the match, the pre match game predictions made at the pre match analysis screen, the team talks and the post match press conferences. For example I've seen occasions where I have been a) evens to win, b) the pre match prediction states they think I will lose, c) my assistant thinks the team talk should say we are underdogs so the pressure is off, then d) the post match conference asks me about my amazing victory when I Was expected to lose. Or a variation of the above. There doesnt seem to be consistency.

Assistant Feedback During Game

This doesnt at all appear linked to the actual stats. My assistant often tells me we are doing bad with possession, yet I have had 60% of it. Additionally I get told that x player is passing terribly, but the stats show different. Needs fixed.

Being Offerend Players

Sometimes, when I get a batch of player offers from agents, a whole load of them are offered to me at 200million. This is clearly wrong!

Player Contracts

I did an experiment where I started a quick game and gave a lower league team loads of cash. When offering players a contract, they wanted RIDICULOUS wages. Granted, they may feel a rich club can offer them more, but when a Championship player is asking for 100k a week, it seems a bit unrealistic. I agree that its unrealistic for a lower league team to HAVE lots of money but this shouldnt really affect the players as much as it does.

Match Engine

Lots of the issues with the ME are already covered in this thread so I wont mention most of them, however a couple of things I am noticing is a huge number of "fluke" goals scored directly from a cross, or even from a throw in.

Team Talks

Player reactions are incredibly unpredictable. So many times I have said well done, and the players all go red and take a negative reaction.

Overall for me, I think the ME will be fixed so I am not too concerned, but the interactions (team talks, media, commenting on managers and talking to players) is REALLY bad. I would far much prefer this feature to be removed completely at the moment as its completely pointless and unrealistic.

[Korleone]

I gave money on game and want to do some complaints, I posted something yesterday and I was wiped out, but where's the topic of complaints or is not allowed?

Respect your customers!

[Herbert Fandel]

I gave money on game and want to do some complaints, I posted something yesterday and I was wiped out, but where's the topic of complaints or is not allowed?

Respect your customers!

You are fully entitled to complain, but it has to be polite and constructive. If you can give a decently written example of why you are unhappy and what you think could/should be improved, then the comment will remain on the forum and may even be taken into consideration. If you just write an angry tirade it will be deleted. I didn't see your previous post, so I am not sure what you did wrong, but that would be my advice for any future ones.

[Herbert Fandel]

Another annoying thing is when you try to make an offer for a transferlisted player the default bid starts at his value, not the asking price, so you have to manually lower the bid to their asking price.

Just minor things, but figured it was best to mention it anyway since one of the devs said they wanted us to report even known bugs.

I agree with this being minor, yet frustrating. Hard to know if it is a bug or a style choice by the devs, but either way it would be nice if it was changed.

[Herbert Fandel]

Ok after playing 2 full seasons this is the feedback I would like to provide:

Media

The overall feeling I get from the media aspect of the game is that it is completely dumb. Repeated irrelevant questions are starting to annoy me. For example, over a 2 leg fixture in which I win the first tie, lose the second but win the overall tie, I always get asked about the win, AND about the loss. The questions go completely against each other. I could list specific examples but there are too many to focus on. Plainly put, the media question and responses for post and pre game needs a complete overhaul.

agree

Talking to Players

This is another "interaction" part of the game which is totally dumb. For example I have a player is is constantly unhappy even though he plays in my first team and we've just won the league. When I try to talk to him about his happiness, the option to do so is always greyed out. Why? I want to know why he is unhappy. His personal details say he IS happy, yet his morale is through the floor.

The game differentiates between morale and happiness. His morale is more his general mood, which can be improved by winning games, offering a new contract or slightly improved by team talks. Happiness more relates to specific issues that he has. These specific issues are harder to fix than morale, and you can only talk to them about this, rather than general mood. I completely understand how the wording gives you confusion, but it is not my opinion this bit is as broken as you think.

Match Expectations

There is a huge gap between the odds of the match, the pre match game predictions made at the pre match analysis screen, the team talks and the post match press conferences. For example I've seen occasions where I have been a) evens to win, b) the pre match prediction states they think I will lose, c) my assistant thinks the team talk should say we are underdogs so the pressure is off, then d) the post match conference asks me about my amazing victory when I Was expected to lose. Or a variation of the above. There doesnt seem to be consistency.

I see this too.

Player Contracts

I did an experiment where I started a quick game and gave a lower league team loads of cash. When offering players a contract, they wanted RIDICULOUS wages. Granted, they may feel a rich club can offer them more, but when a Championship player is asking for 100k a week, it seems a bit unrealistic. I agree that its unrealistic for a lower league team to HAVE lots of money but this shouldnt really affect the players as much as it does.

I mostly disagree here, although perhaps 100k for every player is excessive. I do definitely think that players should demand lots when they know the club has it, but maybe different players should expect more. As you stated yourself though, you edited it, and whilst the game mechanics should cope with all situations, this isn't such a big detail as if it can't cope with the starting DB.

[OlivierL]

Mr. Isaac there is my def CM and he is being pressed in a very dangerous situation. He has easy passing options (right footed, can knock it to the DR any time), but instead holds the ball and I concede. I know the ME must include some defensive mistakes, but I'm mad and it does look stupid in the 3D.

[video=youtube;3ShBs5uexqI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ShBs5uexqI

I had the same problem with my winger , Bale , who was holding the ball, suddenly he stopt holding it , felt down like he got a heart attack and the opposition scored.

Next game against Dortmund , Vidic lifted the offside trap , because he stayed very very deep with an injured Dortmund player.. , they played the ball in space and goal..

[iknowniknuk]

Not too sure if it has been mentioned or not. But i would like to see an option where if you are paying installments for a player over a period amount of time, you can then be able to pay for the transfer earlier then usual, should your finance be in a stronger position. Similair to early repayments on a loan IRL.

[OlivierL]

to the people saying "its your tactics" and such.

Its not. Its the Match Engine and its glaring faults as outlined so many times above by so many posters.

Im currently 13 points out in front in the EPL title race, im smashing the champions league.

Ive already figured out how to manipulate the match engine to win, ive lost 1 game in the league.

My team has highest goals scored and least goals conceeded by far.

But the Match engine is horribly bad, i had one of my players dribble past 4 opposition defenders who jogged next to him to score.

What team are u managing ?

[Graham206]

Started a new save last night: a couple of things cropped up.

Way too many cards in pre-season friendlies. One match had eight yellow cards in total six to me (and I probably only avoided a red by subbing players on a yellow - their replacements got a yellow too in a couple of cases) despite my team being set to cautious tackling. Cards in pre-season friendlies should be a rarity.

It's terribly repetitive to be told to say nice things about other managers and have only two options "I get only really well with" everyone who's not "one of the nicest people in football".

And a little one but I had two players concerned I'd bought a new player but not the option I really needed - "he won't be playing in the same position as you".

Oh and I do get irritated with my ass man telling me "we must close down x" when tight marking and closing down are already set and "y looks exhausted" in the 87th minute when all the subs have been used.

[Fabio MVP]

What do I press in order for SS to appear in Sports Interactive documents? It used to be Alt+F9, right? All of a sudden it's not working anymore. I need to use Print Screen and paste it in Paint.

[Kriss]

What do I press in order for SS to appear in Sports Interactive documents? It used to be Alt+F9, right? All of a sudden it's not working anymore. I need to use Print Screen and paste it in Paint.

Still is according to short cuts in preferences, bug?

[Fabio MVP]

Still is according to short cuts in preferences, bug?

Even that is a bug? I'll report it just in case.

[Flohrinho]

The thing is the critique of the match engine is certainly justified, even though a lot of people seem to be overdoing it a bit.

I mean you can already how the tactic will look like that will break the ME, it will be a tactic that makes the most use of the dangerous wing play and/or the space at the edge of the box due to defenders dropping so deep, probably a 4-3-3 that uses wide striker-wingers and a flat three in midfield with at least two players that have good long shot attributes.

Another thing that irks me about this ME is that teams have no identity, if it's Barcelona or Stoke playing a slow short passing game, you won't be able to notice the difference, apart from that Stoke will probably worse at finishing but even that is far from certain in the current ME, because when I look at the result of the AI there are loads of good teams out there that are struggling against cannon fodder teams, yet when they play each other it's almost always one team winning it big by 3-4 goals.

I seriously hope there will be made some changes to wide and midfield defending, because atm it's the ME Achilles heel and just annoying if you happen to meet a team with quality wingers that will just destroy you no matter what you do.

Oh yeah and the fact that pretty much every team starts playing hardcore pressing after going down one goal is easily exploitable as well and what is it with teams never giving up?

Even if they are 4-0 down they won't start trying to minimize the damage and play defensive again, no they will keep running at you like a bunch of mad men.

[TSH]

That's not how I see it at all, I'm afraid. He looks for the pass to the left, eventually decides it isn't on, so turns and looks for the DR. The DCL reacts to that turn by trying to provide a deep outpass. The DCR seems to be assuming the pass will be made. You can clearly see him turn and look at the DR. The ballplayer then loses the ball and the DCR fails to recover in time.

I realise that everything is subjective, but you need to watch the tiniest of movements to determine where players are looking and what they are trying to do. Yes, it is bad play, but no, it is not indicative of a broken ME. It is just bad play.

I fully accept that the lack of support pressing is bad.

That is also one of the main problems in the game. The majority of people see a problem with the ME in that particular instance but not you or SI. Also, by rationalizing everything you can give excuses to anything. None of the two situations should be happening in the video, unless they are 1 in 1000 games.

And no, not everything is subjective. Some of the things you or SI think they should be this way or another, they are not. You have to change your mentality as well if you want people to change theirs.

Also, do you defend the way players don't respond to a manager's command, as luckair said, or are you claiming that doesn't happen at all? Let's create some common ground.

[Fabio MVP]

Could anyone from SI please help me finish reporting of these two bugs? When I drag the file and when I drop it in FTP, it actually doesn't drops there, but it pop-up window asks me where on my computer do I want to save that file. Could I get an e-mail from PaulC or someone who is also the ME coder beacuse both of these bugs are ME bugs. Pretty bad ones IMO as well.

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/326481-FM-13.1.1-328972-(m.e-v1312)-Goalkeeper-heads-the-ball-instead-of-catching-it

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/326526-FM-13.1.1-328972-(m.e-v1312)-Two-scored-goals-aren-t-registred

[DaveGLeeds]

Ok after playing 2 full seasons this is the feedback I would like to provide:

Media

The overall feeling I get from the media aspect of the game is that it is completely dumb. Repeated irrelevant questions are starting to annoy me. For example, over a 2 leg fixture in which I win the first tie, lose the second but win the overall tie, I always get asked about the win, AND about the loss. The questions go completely against each other. I could list specific examples but there are too many to focus on. Plainly put, the media question and responses for post and pre game needs a complete overhaul.

Totally agree. I provided loads of examples of this throughout beta and really, really hope they look at updating this. It's a shame, because a lot of the new stuff in FM2013 has the potential to make this a fresh approach to the series and still having a completely outdated media section just drags it down.

[DarkStarr]

Tim Krul seems to have turned into David James. And god only knows what my Five defenders are doing with only one player to mark.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JZwKb2FqoA

[jdrawmer]

That's not how I see it at all, I'm afraid. He looks for the pass to the left, eventually decides it isn't on, so turns and looks for the DR. The DCL reacts to that turn by trying to provide a deep outpass. The DCR seems to be assuming the pass will be made. You can clearly see him turn and look at the DR. The ballplayer then loses the ball and the DCR fails to recover in time.

I realise that everything is subjective, but you need to watch the tiniest of movements to determine where players are looking and what they are trying to do. Yes, it is bad play, but no, it is not indicative of a broken ME. It is just bad play.

I fully accept that the lack of support pressing is bad.

I've read a lot of your replies that make sense and are reasonable arguments - but to suggest the DCR makes any attempt whatsoever on intercepting the ball or even marking the run of the striker is just plain wrong.

He does a FIFA-esque 'cover' movement with the rest of defence (as if there isn't a ball or man to defend), and then is playing catch up. The rest of the play I don't see as a problem at all but the defending wouldn't LOOK like that, ever.

Another thing i'm disappointed with is the media which has been touched on on this page. I don't feel like there's been any progress, simply by adding in what mood I say something in press conferences. The same questions every week and it feels far too easy to give the response you need to. I want to be pressed. If i've been reported as slating the team, I want to be hounded as to why. If I have 1 or 2 individual errors that cost me the game, I want to be pressed on that. Same with red cards.

My responses should feed into the news and effect my players, if i've singled them out.

Instead it's "how did you feel when they pulled it back to 2-1". "XXX breaks his goal droubt. How do you feel". "Looking at the league table, who do you think will win?"

[Chalky1989]

Sorry, as much as I've loved all the previous games in the series, SI have dropped the ball here. All previous games, anyone could come in and play the game, and be ok at it. Now it seems that only a tactical genius is able to get anything like consistent results. This game needs to be accessible to all fans of the game, not just the more tactically aware. So people who think they have the tactics sussed, please don't try and give me advice on this thread, that is not the point so don't bother.

Even saying that, I've restarted my season 3 times, to use 3 different tactics(so no-one can say that I hadn't given people time to adjust to the tactics). Nothing I have done seems to makes the slightest bit of difference, my team always ends up just passing the ball around the edge of the box for ages before missing a shot, while defensively players just stand still and watch as someone passes the ball through them. I don't mind that occasionally with top defenders, as that's realism. Every. Damn. Match though is not realistic in the slighest. What I say in team talks, and team meetings, seems to have no effect, I can seemingly inspire people loads, only for it to make no difference. I don't feel like I have any control over the outcome of the match, there's no rhyme or reason to it. Also, to test things out like consistency and the like, I went into the editor and changed the consistency of the players I use to maximum, as well as their important games(won't normally do it, but I was testing things out), and that's not made the slightest bit of difference. What is the point of a management game where you feel that your management is irrelevant?

This is the first time I've ever had a serious problem with an iteration of FM, I've always liked the previous ones, and even when they had major problems, I found it still quite happily playable. This I do not. This is the first time I've ever considered not playing the game due to what I consider a fault in the game. All the previous iterations if you had a good team, and you had a tactic which made sense, but on this iteration it doesn't work, and I think you're going to lose current fans of the game, while most people who buy it for the first time, they're going to be put off by it.

I really really hope you sort it out in an update soon, I don't want to be one of those guys who is criticising SI all the time, as I appreciate it takes hard word to even make a game like this, regardless of it's flaws. I won't be playing it till you do.

(There's so much right with the game as well, the new interface, DoF's, new little options here and there, etc, and if that was on last years ME, you'd have the best football game ever)

[Kriss]

Even that is a bug? I'll report it just in case.

Kind of reassuring to have a little bug like that

[Chalky1989]

Look, I don't claim to be excellent at this game or anything like that. I may well be absolutely useless. I'm not going to go on some silly rant blaming SI because I'm not very good. However, I think it's absolutely ridiculous and unfair that I'm not allowed to enjoy the game at my own level and learn the game at my own pace because there is no difficulty level. Every game known to mankind has some sort of way you can adjust the difficulty except FM.

Now I've got a game that I've spent £30 that I can't play because I'll lose every game. I've just been sacked from my fourth save. Not much fun is it?

Again, I'm not going to claim to be any good at this game. But I don't see why I shouldn't be allowed to simply enjoy the game with my favourite club managing things on my own level till I become good enough at the game to attempt to play it on more difficult/realistic levels.

Especially this year that the way the ME works has changed so much and so many people are finding it more difficult. It just seems like common sense to me...

This. The game is only accessible to people who are very tactically astute. Everyone else is getting screwed over. Wouldn't agree with a difficulty setting persay, but the ME needs to be changed.

[WizbaII]

Having had the chance to play FM 13 for a bit now, I have a few comments to make about the criticisms I've heard:

-It's true that the ball sometimes bounces pretty far. One thing I've noticed in RL is that defenders, when they hit long balls, then often put backspin on the ball to make sure the ball will stay in long enough for the wingers to catch up to it. I wonder if that's in FM? I also wonder if it's the breeze sometimes causing the balls to shoot out so quickly. It's something I'm still looking at.

-It's true that wide players pass the ball back more. But I've also noticed that they have less space to work with than they did in FM 13, so to me it would make sense that they have to pass back more often. This also happens often in RL. Plus, I realized that, with the new engine, a match of 90 minutes is actually literally 90 minutes now. This means the things that happen in RL, like wingers passing the ball back, can also now happen in FM as part of normal play without creating a bunch of 0-0 games.

-Defending is not too bad as people are making it out to be. On average, I'm scoring 2 goals so far and conceding 1 goal per match.

-It is true that the midfielders drop rather deep to defend. But I think that is normal if you have them on zonal defending. If you don't want them dropping deep, have them marking an opposition player who isn't dropping deep. I could definitely see people complaining if the midfielders didn't drop as deep as they do.

-Marking. No one seems to be mentioning this, so I will. FM 13 players follow my marking instructions better than FM 12 players did.

I'm sure the longer I play, the more things I'll find that I feel need improvement. Like some other people said, it's not perfect but it's an improvement from FM 12.

[The 433 Man(ual)]

Sorry, as much as I've loved all the previous games in the series, SI have dropped the ball here. All previous games, anyone could come in and play the game, and be ok at it. Now it seems that only a tactical genius is able to get anything like consistent results. This game needs to be accessible to all fans of the game, not just the more tactically aware. So people who think they have the tactics sussed, please don't try and give me advice on this thread, that is not the point so don't bother.

Even saying that, I've restarted my season 3 times, to use 3 different tactics(so no-one can say that I hadn't given people time to adjust to the tactics). Nothing I have done seems to makes the slightest bit of difference, my team always ends up just passing the ball around the edge of the box for ages before missing a shot, while defensively players just stand still and watch as someone passes the ball through them. I don't mind that occasionally with top defenders, as that's realism. Every. Damn. Match though is not realistic in the slighest. What I say in team talks, and team meetings, seems to have no effect, I can seemingly inspire people loads, only for it to make no difference. I don't feel like I have any control over the outcome of the match, there's no rhyme or reason to it. Also, to test things out like consistency and the like, I went into the editor and changed the consistency of the players I use to maximum, as well as their important games(won't normally do it, but I was testing things out), and that's not made the slightest bit of difference. What is the point of a management game where you feel that your management is irrelevant?

This is the first time I've ever had a serious problem with an iteration of FM, I've always liked the previous ones, and even when they had major problems, I found it still quite happily playable. This I do not. This is the first time I've ever considered not playing the game due to what I consider a fault in the game. All the previous iterations if you had a good team, and you had a tactic which made sense, but on this iteration it doesn't work, and I think you're going to lose current fans of the game, while most people who buy it for the first time, they're going to be put off by it.

I really really hope you sort it out in an update soon, I don't want to be one of those guys who is criticising SI all the time, as I appreciate it takes hard word to even make a game like this, regardless of it's flaws. I won't be playing it till you do.

(There's so much right with the game as well, the new interface, DoF's, new little options here and there, etc, and if that was on last years ME, you'd have the best football game ever)

You just described my feelings in words!