FM2013 Not more steam please

[daylight]

I could say that I find it a minor annoyance that I can't for the life of me get Steam to start in Offline Mode for times when my internet connection is down. That's about it.

You need to close off Steam completely,not just clicking the "x" on the screen but closing it down so it is not running in the background,Steam cloud will then sync if you have been playing a game.

We chatted about this quite a bit over on the Steam forums and it seems if you lose your connection whilst playing it will not start in offline mode but if you close it down and allow Steam cloud to sync it will work when you go to play next time,it will just ask if you want to start Steam in offline mode and you will be able to play your games....at least that is the theory we have.

[rancer890]

If Steam didn't exist, I would have had to import FM every year, which would cost me 25%-50% more than how much I spend now. So more and more Steam please. It's one thing if you're based in the UK with FM around every corner, but I've seen one physical copy in a Canadian store in my entire life.

It also might not beneficial for those who only play FM, but for the gamer it's definitely an avenue to get games cheap with the sales they have in the summer and Christmas.

[Super Bladesman]

Biggest issue with Steam is their sale. Always hooks me in

[aj2kuk]

"What is the result of match 4 on page 32?"

(One for the veterans...)

[dafuge]

"What is the result of match 4 on page 32?"

(One for the veterans...)

Not a patch on this

[Snipergod]

Absolutely nothing wrong with Steam, early in it's life it was buggy and very annoying but these days it's a fantastic system and i've bought all my games through there for the last 5 years and never had a problem with it. I personally honestly can't see how people have a problem with it, you can still create a shortcut for the game on your desktop and it's still just 1 click to get into the game, the only difference is if you don't have steam start when windows starts it launches steam before FM and that takes all of 5 seconds to launch and log in.

Ah well I guess we're just going to have to put up with old dinosaurs who are 300 years old posting new topics complaining about steam year in year out.

[Seismica]

You need to close off Steam completely,not just clicking the "x" on the screen but closing it down so it is not running in the background,Steam cloud will then sync if you have been playing a game.

We chatted about this quite a bit over on the Steam forums and it seems if you lose your connection whilst playing it will not start in offline mode but if you close it down and allow Steam cloud to sync it will work when you go to play next time,it will just ask if you want to start Steam in offline mode and you will be able to play your games....at least that is the theory we have.

I was going to mention this. I had this problem and the cause is not closing Steam before shutting your computer down. I always do this now.

There is a fix however, but it involves editing some hex values in 'winui.gcf'.

For anyone interested, here is the fix:

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showpost.php?p=29424701&postcount=39

It worked for me, I had just moved into a flat so had no internet. I connected through my phone but the connection blocks Steam so I had to find a solution online.

The offline mode issue is the only problem i've ever had with Steam.

[sandhams]

I put up with steam because I want to play FM, but why is the price always higher in the steam store (and it never seems to reduce) than anywhere else that you can buy it.

[themadsheep2001]

I put up with steam because I want to play FM, but why is the price always higher in the steam store (and it never seems to reduce) than anywhere else that you can buy it.

You dont have to buy it in the steam store, it just has to be installed through it. Get through Amazon or play etc for cheaper.

[daylight]

I put up with steam because I want to play FM, but why is the price always higher in the steam store (and it never seems to reduce) than anywhere else that you can buy it.

It has been reduced 3 times in the last month on Steam,it was selling for €12,I think it has been on sale 4 or 5 times this year on the Steam store...you have to check it everyday for the daily deals and then on a Tuesday for the midweek deals and then again on Thursday for the weekend deals.

[Seismica]

I put up with steam because I want to play FM, but why is the price always higher in the steam store (and it never seems to reduce) than anywhere else that you can buy it.

Whilst I agree that on first release Steam is often the more expensive option, for games that have been out a while Steam is second to none for price.

Steam sales are usually amazing for price (75% off etc.), though i'm not sure if Football Manager 2012 was in the sale.

[Scab]

I put up with steam because I want to play FM, but why is the price always higher in the steam store (and it never seems to reduce) than anywhere else that you can buy it.

To not undercut retail. Steam is only cheap when it puts things on sale, which does happen rather frequently.

[g00n]

Not a patch on this

I must be old, I remember that thing vividly - from Premier Manager, right? My first management game on PC.

[jimbobBRFC]

Personally I dislike Steam, I think it may not help with the slow death of my laptop over the past 12 months but it just seems to never work and slow my computer right down. It also does not work in offline mode, if I try to play FM without an internet connection it keeps trying to update itself then showing the no internet connection error, then I put it in offline mode then it updates it self. This goes on untill I throw my laptop threw the window.

Hopefully a new computer for FM13 should sort of solve the problem, besids from that Im pretty indifferent I rarely ever notice its running untill it either pops up with someone online or a acheivment.

[aj2kuk]

I remember that too - which game was that? One of the Premier Manager games?

[pigfacemonkeyman]

Absolutely nothing wrong with Steam, early in it's life it was buggy and very annoying but these days it's a fantastic system and i've bought all my games through there for the last 5 years and never had a problem with it. I personally honestly can't see how people have a problem with it, you can still create a shortcut for the game on your desktop and it's still just 1 click to get into the game, the only difference is if you don't have steam start when windows starts it launches steam before FM and that takes all of 5 seconds to launch and log in.

Ah well I guess we're just going to have to put up with old dinosaurs who are 300 years old posting new topics complaining about steam year in year out.

Seems to me that most people either like, or don't have a problem with, Steam until/unless they encounter an annoying problem with it or their internet connection.

Be careful what you post lest it happen to you.

Cheers,

Old Dinosaur < 300 years old.

[milnerpoint]

Pft go grab your walking stick and get movin granda.

[lostpoolie2]

I personaly have not had a problem playing FM 13 using steam.

[SCIAG]

I personaly have not had a problem playing FM 13 using steam.

Nobody has had a problem playing FM13 with Steam, therefore Steam is brilliant!

[Q.P.R]

I like many 1000s of others will no longer buy FM because of steam .

Its a real shame that we are now seeing the end of FM .. we all know that sales of FM2012 fell by a mass amount . and there has been many staff members that have now left SI .

It is now all over for us FM fans ... the big fall from grace has started .. of course it is not all beacuse of steam . its down too many factors

[Neil Brock]

I like many 1000s of others will no longer buy FM because of steam .

Its a real shame that we are now seeing the end of FM .. we all know that sales of FM2012 fell by a mass amount . and there has been many staff members that have now left SI .

It is now all over for us FM fans ... the big fall from grace has started .. of course it is not all beacuse of steam . its down too many factors

We'd very much appreciate that you didn't just make things up. Nothing you've posted there is even remotely true.

[Widzew]

I have never had a problem with steam before. being from Canada im very pleased that I can buy the game via steam.

[Scab]

we all know that sales of FM2012 fell by a mass amount

Retail sales are going up. Digital sales are unfortunately not documented publicly.

[IMT]

If you're getting crash dumps every day then it is 100% your PC which is the problem and not steam, I haven't had a single one.

That being said, I don't like having to use Steam, and it didn't solve the problem they wanted it to anyway.

[Lower Leagues Rule]

I have never had a problem with steam before. being from Canada im very pleased that I can buy the game via steam.

I am with you and Rancer, on this one, in New Zealand the game is really hard to get in a store, or even through an online store. One year I ordered it from a games store, and they gave me the release date (Same as UK), 2 days before then they ring me and say it is delayed be out a week after UK, then 2 days before that they ring to say only 3 copies are coming and they have 6 pre-orders your order has been cancelled. With Steam it is about 70% of the instore price in New Zealand, it is here a week earlier, and a lot of the UK based online stores won't ship to NZ or will charge ridiculous fees to do it. Steam all the way.

[woody2goody]

I just don't like the fact that Steam slows down my computer a lot for some reason.

Now I have it, I don't have a problem with what it does or what it is trying to accomplish, I just wish it didn't slow my system down and do strange things in the background

[Arsenal Rule]

Personally I really like Steam it works really well for me over last few years now.

[Seismica]

People keep saying how Steam is such a bad thing as it impacts sales negatively.

If I remember back to January, when I decided I wanted to buy a football manager game. LMA doesn't exist anymore, which basically left me with a choice between Football Manager and Fifa Manager. I use Steam as it's a place for all of my games. EA started up their own version to cash in on the idea, thereby removing all of their latest products from Steam. This was counter productive, because instead of one program with all of my games in one place, EA want me to have two programs running on my computer to play my games (As I use Steam for chat). I decided against Fifa Manager almost instantly. I then considered whether buying Football Manager was worth it, because as a general rule I don't buy games that have intrusive DRM. I know Ubisoft is the most notorious publisher for this, but there are others.

In short, I most likely wouldn't have bought Football Manager if it wasn't on Steam. There is at least one sale gained through their decision to go with Steam, rather than some intrusive/rootkit third party DRM (And in the fight against piracy it's one or the other for most companies).

[vincenzo incendio]

I have nerver had a problem played FM11 or 12 on Steam.

[SCIAG]

I like many 1000s of others will no longer buy FM because of steam .

Its a real shame that we are now seeing the end of FM .. we all know that sales of FM2012 fell by a mass amount . and there has been many staff members that have now left SI .

It is now all over for us FM fans ... the big fall from grace has started .. of course it is not all beacuse of steam . its down too many factors

This is mostly the opposite of the truth. Sales have increased, SI have taken on loads of new staff, and FM is going to get really good in the next few years. I'm not a big fan of Steam itself, but the consequences of moving to Steam are overwhelmingly positive for SI and the majority of customers. If you decide not to buy FM because of Steam, then you are being foolish.

I just don't like the fact that Steam slows down my computer a lot for some reason.

Now I have it, I don't have a problem with what it does or what it is trying to accomplish, I just wish it didn't slow my system down and do strange things in the background

Unless you are using a Mac or a very old PC (I know people say a PC from 2 years ago is old, but I mean 10 or 12 years ago) then Steam shouldn't be affecting performance very much, except perhaps when it updates (which is too often for my liking). My only idea is that maybe your internet connection is strained- does offline mode help?

[Jedaye]

Steam is fine if you want to use it to get in on the sales. I have real problems with using it as the only way to play a game. Many of you might not play other games but it is setting us on a bad road where 3rd party software is included in games we play. At some point in time it will be included in every software product we buy. It's not like we don't jump through hoops to play something we pay money for to start with signing agreements before even installing software as it is. This is a bad road to take and I will be staying with FM 11 till the online game I have running ends and they all move on. Then FM will be dead to me as single player now is not as much fun. I have no problem with steam is an option but it needs to be an option. Even if I have to wait a few month till a retail none steam version is available is a better option. (This protects SI from pre-launch piracy while giving the option of playing the game as I decide. After all that's what the steam only version was supposed to do.)

Hell I would even wait till the Jan update/patch. Just as long as I am not forced in to using 3rd party software.

[Svenc]

This is mostly the opposite of the truth. Sales have increased, SI have taken on loads of new staff, and FM is going to get really good in the next few years. I'm not a big fan of Steam itself, but the consequences of moving to Steam are overwhelmingly positive for SI and the majority of customers. If you decide not to buy FM because of Steam, then you are being foolish.

I'm not a fan of DRM measurements myself. However, to me it was intriguing to see FM's popularity measured in numbers day in day out. Since its release, I have never seen FM dropping out of Steam's top ten list of most played games. Skyrim, despite its most recent download content, was only a match around the time of its initial release, and we're basically talking Counter-Strike levels of popularity here when we are counting peak numbers of players per day. Even more intriguing: Up until recently, numerous older versions going straight back to FM 2009 made this top 100, despite FM 2012 being the only release so far that makes Steam mandatory to play.

I spread the word on this quickly, as there is very limited coverage of all things FM over here, and even many so called "games journalists" being ill-informed due to the manager market being essentially a monopoly with no real contest whatsoever and magazines only being provided with review copies from a single publisher. Mind, SI do have little to fear themselves now in particular that Championship Manager is essentially no more for the time being. But this is not acceptable to me, both as an FM player as well as the fan of the genre I have been for the past 20+ odd years.

[BiggusD]

Steam is the greatest digital invention in history.

[robertcornell68]

I wouldn't say I'm a Steam convert but I will probably buy FM13 directly from them just for the convenience.

You can see from this thread how many converts there are. Sega consider it to be a HUGE success.

There is NO WAY Steam won't continue to be used for the foreseeable future.

[GIBURROWS]

I like many 1000s of others will no longer buy FM because of steam .

Its a real shame that we are now seeing the end of FM .. we all know that sales of FM2012 fell by a mass amount . and there has been many staff members that have now left SI .

It is now all over for us FM fans ... the big fall from grace has started .. of course it is not all beacuse of steam . its down too many factors

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA this guy is priceless as well as clueless, did someone say EPIC FAIL?

[pigfacemonkeyman]

Steam is the greatest digital invention in history.

Now that's foolish.

[milnerpoint]

Up until recently, numerous older versions going straight back to FM 2009 made this top 100, despite FM 2012 being the only release so far that makes Steam mandatory to play.

Which should make people realise that Steam was hugely popular with FM players long before it becamse mandatory. I play every single PC game i play through Steam, even if its not released through Steam, it just makes things simpler.

[captainmosh]

I won't be buying FM13 if it's on Steam, as they don't give a **** about Mac users.

I often play FM on my MacBook Pro and never had any problems with it?

Personally I love Steam, all my games in one place, can delete and re-download as I please, games get patched automatically and their sales are pretty spectacular.

[Goaltie]

The technical pro's and con's of Steam are irrelevant.

What many people object to is the intrusion of a mandatory piece of software on their system. Would anyone buy a car with a mandatory sat nav that the manufacturer reserved the right to store the information from? Of course not, you'd buy from another, less intrusive, manufacturer. Of course, we can't do that with Steam because we are a captive market.

Steam is a surveillance tool for the purpose of increasing sales as much as it's DRM. Not to mention the fact that no refunds policies are a violation of statutory consumer rights, and if challenged en mass shouldn't be enforcible in the EU.

I think of Steam as mandatory keylogging software and CCTV on my PC. That said, pirating isn't fair and software like Steam is, I suppose, a natural reaction. Expect much, much more of this type of manufacturer intrusion in future.

[milnerpoint]

Ah the car analogies are back!! Yus!! I have a few crackers lined up if Ackter doesnt threaten to ban me!!

Goaltie, do you know what data Steam collects?

[Crispypaul]

The technical pro's and con's of Steam are irrelevant.

What many people object to is the intrusion of a mandatory piece of software on their system. Would anyone buy a car with a mandatory sat nav that the manufacturer reserved the right to store the information from? Of course not, you'd buy from another, less intrusive, manufacturer. Of course, we can't do that with Steam because we are a captive market.

Steam is a surveillance tool for the purpose of increasing sales as much as it's DRM. Not to mention the fact that no refunds policies are a violation of statutory consumer rights, and if challenged en mass shouldn't be enforcible in the EU.

I think of Steam as mandatory keylogging software and CCTV on my PC. That said, pirating isn't fair and software like Steam is, I suppose, a natural reaction. Expect much, much more of this type of manufacturer intrusion in future.

Steam isn't mandatory software though - however it is if you want to use Football Manager 2012 (and I assume 2013).

You can either accept that, or not play the game. Up to you.

[Goaltie]

Ah the car analogies are back!! Yus!! I have a few crackers lined up if Ackter doesnt threaten to ban me!!

Goaltie, do you know what data Steam collects?

Car analogies are useful because most of us can relate to them, as most of us have one, but most consumer products are just as relevant.

Without getting too deep into economics, one of the big principles of a free market is; once a product is sold it is the buyers property. Once you start eroding that, buy having post-sale restrictions you will always end up on shaky legal ground, unless you're somewhere like China.

And, no one knows what data Steam collects except Steam. I know Some say they don't collect any. I respectfully disagree, at the very least they will collect email addresses and Steam downloads, which can be used for targeted marketing and sale of user data. I very much suspect that most online retailers go further but non of those have software permanently installed on your PC.

[milnerpoint]

Car analogies are useful because most of us can relate to them, as most of us have one, but most consumer products are just as relevant.

Without getting too deep into economics, one of the big principles of a free market is; once a product is sold it is the buyers property. Once you start eroding that, buy having post-sale restrictions you will always end up on shaky legal ground, unless you're somewhere like China.

And, no one knows what data Steam collects except Steam. I know Some say they don't collect any. I respectfully disagree, at the very least they will collect email addresses and Steam downloads, which can be used for targeted marketing and sale of user data. I very much suspect that most online retailers go further but non of those have software permanently installed on your PC.

Car analogies are pointless because buying a computer game is NOTHING AT ALL like buying a car except you transfer money.

Anyway, its quite easy to find out what info Steam collects, but based on your earlier post i assumed you would have already done your research before insinuating Steam is like a CCTV camera.

Its posts likes yours that have lead to the hysteria and unfounded nonsense that has been spouted out since SI moved onto Steam full time.

Its also worth pointing out there has NEVER been a free market on computer games, at no point in any period of time have you owned a game you have bought, you have always owned a license to use the game, nothing more.

[Goaltie]

Car analogies are pointless because buying a computer game is NOTHING AT ALL like buying a car except you transfer money.

Anyway, its quite easy to find out what info Steam collects, but based on your earlier post i assumed you would have already done your research before insinuating Steam is like a CCTV camera.

Its posts likes yours that have lead to the hysteria and unfounded nonsense that has been spouted out since SI moved onto Steam full time.

Calm down Milner. I'm sorry my posts seem to upset you so much but I'm pretty sure I'm right. I do, however, realize I'll never convince a zelot such as yourself. I'll live with that if you can live with other people's right to an opinion ok?

[postal postie]

genuine question here.

you have to be 13 years old, or older to open a Steam Account.

you can play FM if your 3yrs or older.

i'm pretty sure that you cant let someone else use your Steam Account.

so does that mean that the parent of a 10 year old cannot set up a Steam Account, and let their 10 year old play games in it?

[milnerpoint]

Calm down Milner. I'm sorry my posts seem to upset you so much but I'm pretty sure I'm right. I do, however, realize I'll never convince a zelot such as yourself. I'll live with that if you can live with other people's right to an opinion ok?

Having an opinion is fine, making things up is another thing.

[Cougar2010]

Steam has been done to death in previous threads but despite the various positives & negatives atm SI deem Steam the best option of the ones given to them by Sega.

At the end of the day Steam works well for 99% of users 99% of the time, the problems occur when you fall into the small minority that have issues.

This could be a minor issue due to an update or offline mode not working which is annoying and temporarily means you cannot play any of your games registered with Steam (Not just FM).

Or it could be a more serious issue, eg a hacked account, Steam blocking access to your account for various reasons or more extreme reasons such as Steam going bankrupt. Whilst many users don't consider these possibilities anyone that has worked with risk assessment will tell you a basic principle is "Don't put all your eggs in one basket" If your entire games collection is on Steam then you run the risk of losing that entire collection for reasons that are possibly beyond your control.

For Steam to become a safe place to store a collection it needs to improve its customer service to the standard we have come to expect from SI, have terms & conditions that adhere to EU & UK law and have written guidelines/procedures for dealing with account recovery and in the more extreme cases eg of Steam/Valve going bankrupt.

[Goaltie]

Having an opinion is fine, making things up is another thing.

This is a good thread, with some sensible posters. Please don't turn this into another Milnerpoint has a tantrum thread.

While my background isn't in DRM, I do have some knowledge of the wider subject. My opinion is reasonably well informed and well meant so please don't accuse me of making things up you ignorant little *****.

Thanks.

[daylight]

genuine question here.

you have to be 13 years old, or older to open a Steam Account.

you can play FM if your 3yrs or older.

i'm pretty sure that you cant let someone else use your Steam Account.

so does that mean that the parent of a 10 year old cannot set up a Steam Account, and let their 10 year old play games in it?

The account holder needs to be over 13,you are not allowed to share your account information but I have seen many people post that they have a separate account for their child to play games on.

You the account holder are responsible for the account but I have not seen anything to say your child could not play on the account..maybe not a good idea to have your credit card saved on the account though....the kid may get addicted to TF2 and buy lots of stuff from there.

There was a thread not long ago on Steam were a Father used to add money to his kids Steam wallet to buy things in TF2 he was in a rush 1 day and asked his wife to do it,Instead of adding funds she just added the credit card,2 weeks later they got their bill and it was over $200 from the kid buying things,Steam was very helpful with them once they explained and the items were taken back and the money returned but better safe than sorry

[postal postie]

The account holder needs to be over 13,you are not allowed to share your account information but I have seen many people post that they have a separate account for their child to play games on.

You the account holder are responsible for the account but I have not seen anything to say your child could not play on the account..maybe not a good idea to have your credit card saved on the account though....the kid may get addicted to TF2 and buy lots of stuff from there.

There was a thread not long ago on Steam were a Father used to add money to his kids Steam wallet to buy things in TF2 he was in a rush 1 day and asked his wife to do it,Instead of adding funds she just added the credit card,2 weeks later they got their bill and it was over $200 from the kid buying things,Steam was very helpful with them once they explained and the items were taken back and the money returned but better safe than sorry

i see. i wasn't sure what the legal (according to Steam) ramifications were for allowing a minor to use a Steam Account that was created for them.