SRL88 Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 Man Utd ALWAYS get a decent group. Its bloody ridiculous. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jongi Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 You also get points for what other clubs from England do, so United reaching the CL final and Chelsea winning the CL actually scores you some points. that's why i said the porto one would give us a feel as they won't have the same association multiplier we would have i hadn't realised that they had adjusted the difference between the 2 competitions to such an extent. i'm pretty sure there was a time that while you got lesser points in the uefa, the gap was such that it made it worthwhile to pursue a run. i'm gonna look further into this. on the face of it, a europa run doesn't seem to offer much incentive. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenco Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Still got the Europa League semi in there. A good run to the last 8 would be useful. You don't want Man City style groups if and when we get back in the CL. The utter crapness in the Europa League is counting against them at the moment. It's why man Utd get good draws more often than not, seeding keeps them away from groups of death. Being top seed quality team in pot 2 or 3 is a nightmare. Or.... maybe that's what we want Sadly, we're not top seed quality anymore. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRL88 Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Sadly, we're not top seed quality anymore. Nor should we be.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomtuck01 Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Man Utd ALWAYS get a decent group. Its bloody ridiculous. 1998/99 Barcelona Bayern Munich Brondby Yes Brondby were a walk in the park, but not the other two. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icelander83 Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Pretty sure we've had hard groups after that ffs going back some 14 years is pretty much the definition of clutching at straws. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRL88 Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Certainly not on that level of difficulty. Then again, that is practically impossible. You will have to go back to the early-mid 2000's I would reckon to find a tricky group. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razzler Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Haha, going back to 1998/99 United in something like City's group would be interesting, they may actually pay attention Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafalution Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 this pouslen guy doing well helping to control the game against City. let's get him in! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
paperclips Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Hope he has an English grandparent, so he can help turn England into a formidable force. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRL88 Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 I wish Joe Hart would realise how **** Man City are and just sign for us Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCIAG Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 this pouslen guy doing well helping to control the game against City. let's get him in! There was a Jovanovic playing very well against Zenit, might solve your forward crisis? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafalution Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 that Babel guy wasn't bad either, new wingers right there! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRL88 Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 that Babel guy wasn't bad either, new wingers right there! Nah...he played upfront. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
paperclips Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Babel was his usual average self. Does something good followed up by doing something not so good. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinLFC Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Funny how a team containing Poulsen and Babel cant beat Man City in the Champions League . I think the slower pace European style game suits them more than our league. Poulsen looked out of his depth with us but didnt look too bad tonight. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-Man11 Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 that's why i said the porto one would give us a feel as they won't have the same association multiplier we would havei hadn't realised that they had adjusted the difference between the 2 competitions to such an extent. i'm pretty sure there was a time that while you got lesser points in the uefa, the gap was such that it made it worthwhile to pursue a run. i'm gonna look further into this. on the face of it, a europa run doesn't seem to offer much incentive. Nah it's definitely worth having a run. You actually get the same amount of pts for each win in the Europa League as in the Champions League you just get less pts for your actual final competition standing. The big thing is actually winning each game rather than just progressing, take for example Atletico Madrid's two recent Europa League wins: 09/10 Europa League Winners - 24.585 pts W2 D6 L1 (W2 D3 L3 in CL) 11/12 Europa League Winners - 34.171 pts W17 D1 L1 As you can see the different in pts is massive for the same final league position. Another way of showing the importance of winning is comparing Atletico and Chelsea from last season: Chelsea CL winners - 33.050 pts W7 D4 L2 Atletico EL winners - 34.171 pts W17 D1 L1 As you can see Atletico actually got more pts than the CL winner despite playing in the Europa League by virtue of winning a ridiculous amount of games (and Chelsea being jammy/crap). Again another advantage to playing in the Europa League is that it gives you more games to play and as such more pts to be picked up by winning games. Looking at the top 10 coefficients from last season: 1. Real Madrid (CL) 36.171 pts 2. Atletico Madrid (EL) 34.171 = Barcelona (CL) 34.171 4. Chelsea (CL) 33.050 = Bayern Munich (CL) 33.050 6. Athletic Bilbao (EL) 27.171 7. Valencia (EL) 25.171 8. Benfica (CL) 23.366 9. Sporting Lisbon (EL) 22.366 10. AC Milan (CL) 22.271 It seems that making a EL semi-final can still easily pick you up as many pts as a CL qtr-finalist, especially if you frequently win. Also worth noting that both the beaten semi-finalists in the CL got more pts than the winner/runner-up again showing how many pts winning games is worth. I'd certainly argue it's worthwhile if you have any aspirations of being back in the CL, Atletico actually have the 8th highest overall coefficient and would be in Pot 1 despite having only made it to the last 16 of the CL once. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
VamPook Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Interesting stats. Too bad we're crap either way Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jongi Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Good stuff G-Man11 I had started up on it. And I notice that the main difference of the CL is that you get 4 points for making the group stages compared to 2 for the Europa. And then the CL also gives you 4 points for making it into the last 16. This can be made up in the Europa by at least 2 points (2 draws) or all 4 points (2 wins)if you make it through the round of 32. I also read that in the Europa you get an extra point for progressing in the 1/4s, semis and final. I couldn't find something that suggested the same for the CL (though I find it difficult to believe such an incentive would exist in the Europa and not the CL). All-in-all it points to your assertion that picking up the 2 points for games won becomes key. So yeah a run in Europa is good as you suggest. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LRJ Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Gman/anybody else that can answer, would winning the Super Cup have had any effect on co-efficients? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jongi Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 i doubt it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aggressive minor Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Man Utd ALWAYS get a decent group. Its bloody ridiculous. Bayern Munich and Barcelona in the 98/99 group stages edit- I see this point has already been covered! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafalution Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 thanks tomtuck Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafalution Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 super cup doesnt count Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emersonlfc Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Any indication on the team yet? Who has the inside scoop on bib theory from today? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnhughthom Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Typical United, qualifying year in year out and maintaining a high co-efficient to keep themselves as top seeds and give them a good shot at a decent group every year. Disgraceful behaviour. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bell Posted October 25, 2012 Author Share Posted October 25, 2012 Yeah. I want to do a 1st goalscorer bet, any idea on line-up Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jorg Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Any of you want to put me off backing Anzhi at 7/2? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bell Posted October 25, 2012 Author Share Posted October 25, 2012 Don't do it. Good price though... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emersonlfc Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Great price. Tempted to get on them myself Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhino Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 It's not a good price. They're not going to win. Losing bets are always a bad price. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bell Posted October 25, 2012 Author Share Posted October 25, 2012 Bloody pack of Gregos Traitorellis the lot of you Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshyboy1984 Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Bib theory was this: Jones, Wisdom, Skrtel, Agger, Johnson, Gerrard, Sahin, Shelvey, Downing, Suarez, Assaidi. Which I balked at 'cos: - Gerrard struggles playing twice in a week, especially when the 2nd game is the Derby. We have fairly strong evidence for this. Didn't he also play for England last week? - If we lose Suarez we are definitely ****ed, don't think I need to expand why here. He has a good injury record but he's played so much football recently and travelled loads. - If we lose Johnson we are probably very likely a bit ****ed. I think Glen is our second most influential man in attack at the moment. Keeping him fit is pretty big imo. Which means resting him whenever we can because he don't have a perfect injury record and the guy always looks gassed to me at the end of every league 90. He covers so much ground on the charge. - If we lose Agger it's a big blow. I don't really like the look of Skrtel + Coates at all. Agger is playing really well and gelling it together at times. We all know about his injury record. - Henderson, Agger, Enrique aren't in the team and we need to keep giving them games. Keep them sharp. All these things considered I hope the bib theory is false and we pick a second string tonight. I'll take going out of the EL but giving some important reserves a run out and being 100% fresh for Sunday. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshyboy1984 Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Although bib theory has played a blinder again it seems. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudester Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Bib theory was spot on I hope we come through unscathed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LRJ Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 I wonder if any other teams have used the bib theory and based their selection around it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafalution Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 http://www.theanfieldwrap.com/2012/10/interview-darren-burgess/ great read Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
foofighter23 Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 bib theory always spot on. is it done by this jenkins bloke....?? i dont want us to go out of every comp for aslong as possible. its ok some suggesting playing the youth and getting knocked out isnt really a big deal, but surely using a mix of youth and first team is better for everyone and means more games all round. i'd rather we played 75 games a season and not win anything than 38 plus the bare minimum in 2/3 cups for the same end result. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LRJ Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 I wouldn't mind going out of the league cup early considering the timings of the matches but if scrape through to the later rounds by playing the backups then thats fine by me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emersonlfc Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 2 nutmegs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
foofighter23 Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 downing looking up for this, good to see Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jongi Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 stevie not at the races so far Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emersonlfc Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Thats pretty poor from Jonjo. Thought Luis could have ran it in a little also. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emersonlfc Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Gerrard having a mare so far tbh Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
foofighter23 Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 he really has been awful, still i enjoyed that half. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafalution Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 young boys beating udinese 1-0 atm, which would be great if stayed that way Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
foofighter23 Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 i think strachan had a decent point there. ive been saying the last few games we really could do with 2 men upfront with the way we play an extra striker in there would work wonders. its just impossible to do cos if we take a midfielder out we dont control the midfield. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafalution Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 oh gerrard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudester Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 why gerrard not chesting that? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafalution Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 i dont think the header was necessarily the wrong choice, back across the keeper he would have never got to it, and the weight on the ball looked great to header it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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