Quickfire Questions and Answers Thread (Tactic and Training Questions Only)

[Tsuru]

Which PPMs you might recommend for a Deep Lying Foward - Attack that plays on a 4141 DM Wide with two more classical Wingers on the sides and a CM Attack coming from behind?

We currently play on a quick attacking style football but try to keep things as simplest as possible.

Thank you in advance!

Edited May 5, 2021 by Tsuru

[NotSoSpecialOne]

Plays One Twos comes to mind if he's not too isolated from the CM-Attack. Tries Tricks if he has really good flair and technique.

 

[Tsuru]

20 minutos atrás, NotSoSpecialOne disse:

Plays One Twos comes to mind if he's not too isolated from the CM-Attack. Tries Tricks if he has really good flair and technique.

 

In fact he is not, he has been moving around all the final third looking for good opportunities. It has been very interesting to see.

I will try Plays One Twos, thank you!

[stopazricky]

On 28/04/2021 at 18:59, Experienced Defender said:

PIs generally take precedence over TIs. However, the Pass into space TI does not apply only to so-called risky passes and through balls but any pass that is played into space in front of a teammate (for example, a CB can play a pass into space for a fullback in his own half). So the Pass into space TI is not an equivalent of the Take more risks PI. 

Hello! I'd like to know more on that: if one sets a PI and a TI that are the complete opposite of one another (such as Dribble More on a player and Dribble Less on the team), does the PI "erase" the TI for that player, or it just takes precedence but is still not as noticeable as it would be without the opposing TI?
 

What if, instead, the PI and TI are the same, such as Get Stuck In for both the player and the team. Does the player get stuck in even more? Whenever I set Get Stuck In as a TI, I erase the PI for doing just that as I'm afraid the player could turn into an MMA fighter all of a sudden lol
Does what I do have any effect or make any sense at all?

[Ripamon]

48 minutes ago, stopazricky said:

Hello! I'd like to know more on that: if one sets a PI and a TI that are the complete opposite of one another (such as Dribble More on a player and Dribble Less on the team), does the PI "erase" the TI for that player, or it just takes precedence but is still not as noticeable as it would be without the opposing TI?
 

What if, instead, the PI and TI are the same, such as Get Stuck In for both the player and the team. Does the player get stuck in even more? Whenever I set Get Stuck In as a TI, I erase the PI for doing just that as I'm afraid the player could turn into an MMA fighter all of a sudden lol
Does what I do have any effect or make any sense at all?

Good question tbh. 

There's a lot of conflicting information generally. 

But let's first look at the facts. 

A couple of instructions have 3 possible settings. Take for example that dribble less you mentioned.

A player can be set by PI or TI to either dribble often (dribble more, run at defence), dribble sometimes (none selected) or dribble rarely ( dribble less)

Therefore offsetting a TI with a contrasting PI (say, run at defence TI combined with a dribble less option on your wide midfielder) should leave only two distinct possibilities :

1) the PI totally overrides the TI - he indeed dribbles less 

2) The PI evenly counterbalances the contrasting TI - he dribbles sometimes 

It has to be one of the two, and nothing else. So far I'm led to believe it's the former, but I don't know for certain. 

Good question 

 

[phnompenhandy]

1 minute ago, rossenori said:

how to increase pressing urgency? already on counter press and extremely urgent pressing but every mid and forward are on less urgent. 

Don't use roles with less urgent pressing hard-coded.

[herne79]

12 minutes ago, rossenori said:

my mid + fw five IF, IW, CAR, DLP, AM, TM all on less urgent... 

That's a UI issue.  If the green bar is full they're already on the max pressing the roles can be on regardless of what it says.

[eXistenZ]

I don't know if it belongs here, but its a quick question:

 

When you scout a player, in his profile (not his scout report) he will be compared in stars to your current squad, but only for one position. can you change this?

In the comparison overall, star ratings seem to be bugged for the player on the right anyway

[Gee_Simpson]

15 hours ago, Ripamon said:

2) The PI evenly counterbalances the contrasting TI - he dribbles sometimes

I'm almost certain it's this.

[karenin]

Does the Position/Role/Duty Familiarity have the same hit on decisions as if the player plays out of (tactical) position (DM instead of CM or smth)?

Also, why doesnt the tactical familarity increase. Hes natural at the tactical Position and played this tactic and Role for 121 Apps now, yet position/role/duty familiarity level is still at the lowest possible - awkward (everything else is fluid).

If it doesnt have the same hit on decisions as an unnatural Position i dont care, but the feedback provided suggests otherwise ("His lack of familiarity is impacting the squads overall cohesion, and he should be given more time in the team to get up to scratch" which is basically satire given he played 121 games with this role and duty on his natural position, and is my first choice. Missed maybe 6 games cuz of injury or ban..).

[phnompenhandy]

1 hour ago, karenin said:

Does the Position/Role/Duty Familiarity have the same hit on decisions as if the player plays out of (tactical) position (DM instead of CM or smth)?

Also, why doesnt the tactical familarity increase. Hes natural at the tactical Position and played this tactic and Role for 121 Apps now, yet position/role/duty familiarity level is still at the lowest possible - awkward (everything else is fluid).

If it doesnt have the same hit on decisions as an unnatural Position i dont care, but the feedback provided suggests otherwise ("His lack of familiarity is impacting the squads overall cohesion, and he should be given more time in the team to get up to scratch" which is basically satire given he played 121 games with this role and duty on his natural position, and is my first choice. Missed maybe 6 games cuz of injury or ban..).

I don't think it makes any difference. I've got players with allegedly zero familiarity in complete forward and inverted winger positions because their attributes fit. I don't see any decrease in form.

[Sharkn20]

4 hours ago, karenin said:

Does the Position/Role/Duty Familiarity have the same hit on decisions as if the player plays out of (tactical) position (DM instead of CM or smth)?

Also, why doesnt the tactical familarity increase. Hes natural at the tactical Position and played this tactic and Role for 121 Apps now, yet position/role/duty familiarity level is still at the lowest possible - awkward (everything else is fluid).

If it doesnt have the same hit on decisions as an unnatural Position i dont care, but the feedback provided suggests otherwise ("His lack of familiarity is impacting the squads overall cohesion, and he should be given more time in the team to get up to scratch" which is basically satire given he played 121 games with this role and duty on his natural position, and is my first choice. Missed maybe 6 games cuz of injury or ban..).

Are you training him in that position? Or just playing him there? How is his adaptability?

[phnompenhandy]

18 minutes ago, Sharkn20 said:

Are you training him in that position? Or just playing him there? How is his adaptability?

Versatility!

[Ripamon]

12 hours ago, Gee_Simpson said:

I'm almost certain it's this.

@Experienced Defender @Rashidican you please clear this up for us? 

[karenin]

1 hour ago, Sharkn20 said:

Are you training him in that position? Or just playing him there? How is his adaptability?

Position isnt the problem, just the "position"/role/duty familiarity bar.

He is played on his natural tactical position (AML = 20, i even spoilered myself and confirmed this in pre-game editor because i was curious if he maybe has striker on 20 and AML on 17 or smth, but its AML 20 and Striker 18), i didnt retrain him nor played him out of position even for a single game.

His Training is the standard "playing position" which works best for older players (that not yet started to decline physically) for me. But frankly, i dont see how this should influence his familiarity to the point that hes not familiar (bar is like 10% full), all while playing the very same role and duty for 100+ apps..

[herne79]

5 minutes ago, karenin said:

Position isnt the problem, just the "position"/role/duty familiarity bar.

The familiarity bar is never a problem.  That's just a system generated indicator to give us a starting point which we are free to use or ignore.

The only thing that's important is his performance during matches.  And given you've played him 121 times with that role I'm guessing he's doing alright .

[karenin]

16 minutes ago, herne79 said:

The familiarity bar is never a problem.  That's just a system generated indicator to give us a starting point which we are free to use or ignore.

The only thing that's important is his performance during matches.  And given you've played him 121 times with that role I'm guessing he's doing alright .

Yeah sure, im not asking because hes bad (hes actually my best player and delivers), i just wanted to know for the sake of knowing if the missing familiarity with role/duty means the same decision malus is applied like if hes played out of his tactical position.

Because with a replacement in mind, lets assume that malus is there, my top player can still do well with decisions 16 (IF its reduced, its still 14 or smth = quite high and well above average), but the potential talent replacement may only start at 10 decisions. If i then face the same familiarity problem with that potential replacement - and it does reduce decisions - this most likely would hinder his playing time development greatly (and would convince me to rather get a player that starts out higher in decisions, at the cost of phys or technical abilities).

[nully29]

7 hours ago, karenin said:

Does the Position/Role/Duty Familiarity have the same hit on decisions as if the player plays out of (tactical) position (DM instead of CM or smth)?

Also, why doesnt the tactical familarity increase. Hes natural at the tactical Position and played this tactic and Role for 121 Apps now, yet position/role/duty familiarity level is still at the lowest possible - awkward (everything else is fluid).

If it doesnt have the same hit on decisions as an unnatural Position i dont care, but the feedback provided suggests otherwise ("His lack of familiarity is impacting the squads overall cohesion, and he should be given more time in the team to get up to scratch" which is basically satire given he played 121 games with this role and duty on his natural position, and is my first choice. Missed maybe 6 games cuz of injury or ban..).

Do you have some custom personal instructions on top of the default role?

[karenin]

From the very beginning, tackle harder and mark tighter.

Also, in the first season i switched around roam from on and off, but i kept it the same after i decided what to use (so no change since winter 2021).

[herne79]

1 hour ago, karenin said:

Yeah sure, im not asking because hes bad (hes actually my best player and delivers), i just wanted to know for the sake of knowing if the missing familiarity with role/duty means the same decision malus is applied like if hes played out of his tactical position.

Because with a replacement in mind, lets assume that malus is there, my top player can still do well with decisions 16 (IF its reduced, its still 14 or smth = quite high and well above average), but the potential talent replacement may only start at 10 decisions. If i then face the same familiarity problem with that potential replacement - and it does reduce decisions - this most likely would hinder his playing time development greatly (and would convince me to rather get a player that starts out higher in decisions, at the cost of phys or technical abilities).

As far as I'm aware Decisions only takes a small hit if a player is played out of position.  Role is unaffected.

[Experienced Defender]

2 hours ago, Ripamon said:

@Experienced Defender @Rashidican you please clear this up for us? 

What exactly?

[karenin]

38 minutes ago, herne79 said:

As far as I'm aware Decisions only takes a small hit if a player is played out of position.  Role is unaffected.

Just to clear that "Position" confusion, because in all my research trough this forum and reddit abt this topic, most seem to confuse those:

Your take on this (and actually what i believe) is:

- If you play a player in a different tactical Position (e.g. a Player is natural on MR, but we play him on ML) theres a hit on decisions.

- If you play a player in a Role he only has awkward pos/role/duty familiarity - but still on his natural tactical Position (the MR is a MR) - theres no hit.

Thank you for answering. I think ill be opting for the replacement with lower decisions, but with done physical development then.

[CARRERA]

2 hours ago, herne79 said:

The familiarity bar is never a problem.  That's just a system generated indicator to give us a starting point which we are free to use or ignore.

Are you sure about that? I always feel like when players are familar with their role, they play better or are at least better linked up in the system as a whole. Obviously that doesnt mean they cant perform well anyway. And if it doesn't matter at all, why is it even there or what does it indicate?

[phnompenhandy]

10 minutes ago, CARRERA said:

Are you sure about that? I always feel like when players are familar with their role, they play better or are at least better linked up in the system as a whole. Obviously that doesnt mean they cant perform well anyway. And if it doesn't matter at all, why is it even there or what does it indicate?

I posted earlier that I was struggling to get my supposedly decent strikers to score. Their 'familiar' positions were the usual suspects - PF, DLF, AF, TM. I cracked it by giving two of them (in rotation) Complete Forward roles - complete with expected one red chunk. Now they're scoring.

[Ripamon]

1 hour ago, Experienced Defender said:

What exactly?

This here post

[Experienced Defender]

45 minutes ago, Ripamon said:

This here post

Rashidi definitely knows better than me, so take my answer with a pinch of salt. Anyway, if I am not mistaken, using the "same" TI and PI at the same time should not increase the effect of the instruction. For example, if you use the tight marking TI and then also add the tight marking PI for a particular player, it should not make him mark even more tightly. The same should be the case for tackling or any other instruction(s).

On the other hand, if the TI and PI are opposite - e.g. run at defence TI vs. dribble less PI - the PI should somewhat reduce the effect of the TI.

But again, I would still prefer to hear from @Rashidi or @herne79 as I am not 100% sure 

[nully29]

3 hours ago, CARRERA said:

Are you sure about that? I always feel like when players are familar with their role, they play better or are at least better linked up in the system as a whole. Obviously that doesnt mean they cant perform well anyway. And if it doesn't matter at all, why is it even there or what does it indicate?

My wild guess, also based on what the game actually says, is that player's familiarity contributes to overall team cohesion. Which on turn affects positioning, vision and maybe something else.

[Nick_CB]

Guys, I was looking to use Trequartista on the flank in a style based on quick transition, but I don't know which role to use for the lone striker. Would AF be a bad choice?

Edited May 7, 2021 by Nick_CB

[Experienced Defender]

1 hour ago, Nick_CB said:

Guys, I was looking to use Trequartista on the flank in a style based on quick transition, but I don't know which role to use for the lone striker. Would AF be a bad choice?

If you want a quick-transition style, the AF is not a bad choice. That's a quick and simple answer.

For a more detailed discussion, you'll have to start your own separate thread.

[Ripamon]

30 minutes ago, rossenori said:

does crossing attribute matter if the corner taker has high corner attribute? 

Back in the fm 15 days the magic formula was called CCT

Corners Crossing Technique 

But now I don't know. Clicking the corner training focus in fm 21 shows Corners and Technique. 

In the absence of a concrete answer I think it's best to take crossing into strong consideration as well. I certainly still do. 

Edited May 7, 2021 by Ripamon

[who_is_it]

What are the fundamentals keys to create overload (on sides and centre of the field)? 

Edited May 7, 2021 by who_is_it

[Gee_Simpson]

1 hour ago, rossenori said:

does crossing attribute matter if the corner taker has high corner attribute? 

I wouldn't say so, as crossing is a different technique from taking a corner which is a dead ball situation.

[Experienced Defender]

33 minutes ago, who_is_it said:

What are the fundamentals keys to create overload (on sides and centre of the field)? 

A prevalence of support duties in the area where you want to create the overload, preferably with at least one playmaker role in that area. 

That would be the simplest possible answer. For more details, you'll need to start a separate thread.

[Experienced Defender]

@rossenori Your question is too complex for this quickfire thread (because it requires deeper tactical analysis), so please ask it in your already existing thread or start another one.

[Sharkn20]

23 hours ago, herne79 said:

The familiarity bar is never a problem.  That's just a system generated indicator to give us a starting point which we are free to use or ignore.

The only thing that's important is his performance during matches.  And given you've played him 121 times with that role I'm guessing he's doing alright .

I disagree with this completely.

My experience says that players perform A LOT better when they have full green bars in the Tactic Familiarity screen, and you can only achieve this by training specific position and role until is full. Then you can switch to position training only.

[who_is_it]

How to ask a player to position himself between the lines ?

[who_is_it]

23 minutes ago, rossenori said:

move into channel?

With this instruction the player will move into vertical channel, not horizontal channel

[zabyl]

21 minutes ago, rossenori said:

move into channel?

Channel and space are different terms in football. Channel is a hole between two players which are on the same line. For example; an empty area between FB and CB is a channel. Space is the empty area between the lines.

So move into channels enforces a player to use those holes between players on the same block of opposition defenders. And roaming enforces a player to use space between the lines.

[Prolix]

1 hour ago, who_is_it said:

How to ask a player to position himself between the lines ?

This is something the Advanced Playmaker is coded to do.

[who_is_it]

12 minutes ago, zabyl said:

Channel and space are different terms in football. Channel is a hole between two players which are on the same line. For example; an empty area between FB and CB is a channel. Space is the empty area between the lines.

So move into channels enforces a player to use those holes between players on the same block of opposition defenders. And roaming enforces a player to use space between the lines.

👍

Edited May 8, 2021 by who_is_it

[zabyl]

16 minutes ago, who_is_it said:

👍

A good example from @Rashidi 

[Ripamon]

6 hours ago, Sharkn20 said:

I disagree with this completely.

My experience says that players perform A LOT better when they have full green bars in the Tactic Familiarity screen, and you can only achieve this by training specific position and role until is full. Then you can switch to position training only.

Understand that is your anecdotal evidence.

The reality though, is that we know for a fact it does not make a difference.

[zabyl]

On 07/05/2021 at 16:43, karenin said:

Position isnt the problem, just the "position"/role/duty familiarity bar.

He is played on his natural tactical position (AML = 20, i even spoilered myself and confirmed this in pre-game editor because i was curious if he maybe has striker on 20 and AML on 17 or smth, but its AML 20 and Striker 18), i didnt retrain him nor played him out of position even for a single game.

His Training is the standard "playing position" which works best for older players (that not yet started to decline physically) for me. But frankly, i dont see how this should influence his familiarity to the point that hes not familiar (bar is like 10% full), all while playing the very same role and duty for 100+ apps..

I suppose the game took a different base playing position/role/duty beyond your expectation. You can see his tactically most familiar position/role/duty on player profile-development-tactics screen.

You can train him on your preferred role/duty on your formation to speed it up. An awkward role/duty tactical familiarity is not good for team play and can create some mistaken decisions. A fluid one is always helpful to see if tactics working well or not. Otherwise; when something goes wrong, it can be difficult to spot the reason; as if it is occured by player's tactical role/duty familiarity, a tactic issue or player performance. 

Position familiarity is different from role/duty tactical familiarity and it can be useful to play someone out of his suited position if he has required attributes for that position/role/duty.

[Sharkn20]

5 hours ago, Ripamon said:

Understand that is your anecdotal evidence.

The reality though, is that we know for a fact it does not make a difference.

Can you show me hard evidence about that fact? Either written by the developers or a numeric study completed? Thanks.

[Rashidi]

On 06/05/2021 at 17:26, Ripamon said:

2) The PI evenly counterbalances the contrasting TI - he dribbles sometimes

@Experienced Defender 

this where the PI in question is not an absolute condition, like eases of tackles and tackle harder. That PI only has two states. Other PIs, notably those that have an intensity which usually are described with "sometimes" then the PI has an effect on it the counterbalancing instruction, though, "evenly counterbalances" makes it seem like there is a specific value, where it should be more " a tendency to".

So say you use the TI Run at defence, which increases dribbling and a player has dribble less on it. Then the Run at defence still affects the player with the dribble less, so he will dribble more but not as much as someone who may not have been given the PI. Here the thing we want to be careful about is spending so much time asking "how much" which over the years has proven pointless. 

Mentality affects them, plus there are some roles that are inclined to dribble more by virtue of the role. Then you have the roles and duties that are next to the role, say a player has good dribbling and you told him to dribble less, but he has no options and he has the trait brings the ball out of defence, that player will still dribble because he has a trait that influences him and he has no passing options. So he brings the ball forward. If you played on a lower mentality he may opt not to pass it.

IMHO, player instructions are not a magic button to make a tactic play better. No amount of player instruction tweaking can make a bad tactic good. If the wrong roles and duties were set up, PIs can't help it. In fact in most cases I prefer playing with less Tis and PIs

[phnompenhandy]

I've been offered a pre-season training camp in Portugal. I've never been at this level before and so never encountered them. What do you do, if anything? Do you arrange pre-season friendlies against local clubs (can't see any in the friendlies option). Or do your players just come back after 10 days with good condition, cohesion and tactical familiarity?

[herne79]

1 hour ago, phnompenhandy said:

I've been offered a pre-season training camp in Portugal. I've never been at this level before and so never encountered them. What do you do, if anything? Do you arrange pre-season friendlies against local clubs (can't see any in the friendlies option). Or do your players just come back after 10 days with good condition, cohesion and tactical familiarity?

I arrange some friendlies against local clubs (local to where the camp is being held).  Select a date within the training camp schedule, select venue as "local" and then choose your opposition.  See below.  The training camp won't appear on your schedule until the new season rolls over.

[phnompenhandy]

4 minutes ago, herne79 said:

I arrange some friendlies against local clubs (local to where the camp is being held).  Select a date within the training camp schedule, select venue as "local" and then choose your opposition. 

Oh I see. I went to the friendlies menu - checked home and away and just saw my local clubs. Maybe I missed that part.  Actually can you remember if these options were in FM19 - that's what I'm on? If not, I'll just wait until next pre-season.

[herne79]

8 minutes ago, phnompenhandy said:

Oh I see. I went to the friendlies menu - checked home and away and just saw my local clubs. Maybe I missed that part.  Actually can you remember if these options were in FM19 - that's what I'm on? If not, I'll just wait until next pre-season.

It's probably there for FM19 but I can't remember 100%.

However alternatively you can look up a club in Portugal (use the search function), then from their club screen click on Schedule - Propose Friendly - select the squad you want to play - Venue - Away.

The option for a friendly isn't always there but if your season has rolled over you should see it.

[phnompenhandy]

1 minute ago, herne79 said:

The option for a friendly isn't always there but if your season has rolled over you should see it.

I'm into the season now - played 2 lost 2. Just checking schedule > friendly and the venue choices are just home and away. The 'type' box which I've never opened before has 'tour' so it might be there. I'll know for next time anyway, thanks.