Quickfire Questions and Answers Thread (Tactic and Training Questions Only)

[eXistenZ]

I have a pacy striker/poacher , who gets caught offside a lot. I've already got him the trait to beat the offside trap, what else can i do?

[Experienced Defender]

3 hours ago, eXistenZ said:

I have a pacy striker/poacher , who gets caught offside a lot. I've already got him the trait to beat the offside trap, what else can i do?

If he often gets caught offside, why then would you want him to try to beat the offside trap ??? 

Because that trait is likely to make him caught offside even more.

[LucasBR]

Is it too risky to use a defensive midfielder as a deep lying playmaker on support duty with PI to mark tighter and tackle harder? Other midfielders I'm using a mezalla and advanced playmaker, both support duty.

[Experienced Defender]

2 hours ago, LucasBR said:

Is it too risky to use a defensive midfielder as a deep lying playmaker on support duty with PI to mark tighter and tackle harder? Other midfielders I'm using a mezalla and advanced playmaker, both support duty.

Whether something is "too risky" or not can vary from team to team and from tactic to tactic, so nobody can give you a definite answer to such a question.

On top of that, that kind of question cannot be dealt with in a simple and quick fashion, which means it does not suit this quickfire thread.

Better start your own separate thread in which we can discuss it in the context of your whole tactic.

[Icy]

Is there a way to see which tactic did you use in a specific game? (not only formation but roles, width, pass length, etc). Sometimes I do a lot of tests and I'd like to go back to a previous tactic I might have overwritten it already.

Edited March 15, 2021 by Icy

[palmamiguel92]

How do you normally go to away games? in this FM away games are 50x harder than normal even against same level opposition, my teams just seem afraid to pass the ball around and the defensive sector is very passive with odd marking and heading decisions leaving the AI striker 1v1 with the GK even with lower DL

[eXistenZ]

Using a wingerless 4132, half of my conceided goals are crosses. Im already forcing the opponent inside, what else can I tweak (both FB sup roles on the LB and RB)

[Nozzer]

I'm a lower league team, if I use WBIB my players aren't always good enough and too many moves break down due to poor decisions / final balls etc which makes sense however if I do not use WBIB then my players take far too many long shots even if I use the PI Shoot Less Often on players who will be around the box

Does this point to a (at least partially) poorly designed tactic?  I've re-invented my tactics each of the last 3 seasons and all 3 have seen me get 90+ points, finish 2nd and lose the National League Play Off Semi Final.  It's doing my head in now

[Piperita]

8 hours ago, eXistenZ said:

Using a wingerless 4132, half of my conceided goals are crosses. Im already forcing the opponent inside, what else can I tweak (both FB sup roles on the LB and RB)

Forcing the opposition inside is essentially meaning defending wide and trying to defend the pitch side-to-side, stopping most crosses entirely. This naturally means that your fullbacks are engaging wingers and overlappers more often and that they are thus missing in the centre. Similarly your Central Defenders might venture more outside which means you concede aerial superiority in the box whenever a cross actually gets through.

I'd advise you to look at
1) How the crosses happen in the first place. Are your fullbacks overrun by doubled-down flanks? Are they overrun by pacier wingers? By tackles or superior dribbling? If you defend wide, especially in a wingerless system, the fullbacks must be pretty complete and have to at least buy plenty of time
2) How good your goalkeeper is at "Command of Area", "Anticipation", "Decisions", and to a lesser extent Jumping reach. If crosses get through and the defenders are spread, it is important that he is another body going for the ball instead of waiting for the finish
3) How is your DM faring? I like this position in wingerless systems as it protects against rebounds or late-arrivers. It can protect both against those and provide another body in the box. Question being -- where do the dangerous crosses land and from what situation? When they originate from counter-attacks or the FB losing the ball, a HBd can go a long way as they will be deepest down when caught. When they come from deep and arrive outside the box, a BWMd will get onto the target's foot immediately and force a hasty decision. A classical DMd can fill both roles solidly. A playmaker can offer the FB a target when they are attacked and thus eliminate these kinds of counters.

A cheap tactic I sometimes use (although mostly in a x-x-1-2 system) is creating some penetration from deeper positions and ordering my strikers (if they are pacy and fit enough) to man-mark the opponent's fullbacks. This creates some pretty unique movement when winning the ball helps the fullbacks out without sacrificing the midfield's compactness. Big downside being how complete such a striker needs to be...

Another trick that often helps me: A CAR but with some offensive PPM on the ball. When the fullback marches, he protects, if he gets the ball, he rushes forwards. I guess with a vanilla FBs even the hyper-offensive "Gets into Opposition Area" might work but once again -- this needs some pretty complete players. Otherwise the CAR will suffocate at halftime or leave even more room to exploit.

50 minutes ago, Nozzer said:

I'm a lower league team, if I use WBIB my players aren't always good enough and too many moves break down due to poor decisions / final balls etc which makes sense however if I do not use WBIB then my players take far too many long shots even if I use the PI Shoot Less Often on players who will be around the box

Does this point to a (at least partially) poorly designed tactic?  I've re-invented my tactics each of the last 3 seasons and all 3 have seen me get 90+ points, finish 2nd and lose the National League Play Off Semi Final.  It's doing my head in now

Players shooting from afar despite instructions not to do that so often often means they don't see more promising options to end the attack. Mostly meaning no player runs into the box for a through ball or creates width for a pass to the side. Finishing with 90+ points regularly probably means you are a league-favourite which means the opposition plays more defensive which limits the chances for creative solutions even more if the team already struggles with it through the WBIB instruction. Thus the players shoot from afar, either because they can't continue to pass forwards or because the DLine is so far down they have some space for shots.

In such situations I love to use pretty offensive wide players. A Wa often is my top scorer and among my top assist-giver as a league favourite as it first abuses bare flanks and then violently cuts inside off-the-ball. Width and movements are your friends as top dog . In more bottom-heavy formations a WBa (or when higher up the league a CWB) can also do wonders. It isn't unusual for them to get close to double digits goals with plenty of assist as they too provide width and then move inside from afar, creating disruptions in the defense.

Not creating width but disruptions -- a Support Striker + Shadow Striker combo can also murder Dlines. A F9 works well but they are somewhat hard to find in lower leagues. But there are plenty TMs and a lot of strikers that are easy to retrain as SS.

13 hours ago, palmamiguel92 said:

How do you normally go to away games? in this FM away games are 50x harder than normal even against same level opposition, my teams just seem afraid to pass the ball around and the defensive sector is very passive with odd marking and heading decisions leaving the AI striker 1v1 with the GK even with lower DL

My tactics are generally build so that they adapt pretty well with a reduction or increase of mentality. While that setting is not intended to be used that way, it is a pretty fast and easy way to change lots of instructions on the fly.

From there on often minor tweaks can really get under an opponent's skin. Reduction in overall mentality but using more attack minded strikers. Be it from the point of mentality (IFs is a lovely role with its natural +2 mentality!) or general movement (AFa can be beasts!). In wingerless formations using the Over- or underlap instructions to keep the fullbacks on the "old" mentality while the centre gets more cautious.

And of course using tempo and width to roughly stay on the old level. This keeps the tactical approach similar, just with a different risk/reward mentality.

On 12/03/2021 at 20:44, yourih3 said:

Apart from 433, which formations are also suitable for possession-based football?

Like ED said, a 4231 is a good option. It is pretty easy to set up if the "2" can manage and can be transformed in a variety of ways. Somehow the AI really has figured out how to make flat 442 possessive plays. Against them even my team otherwise managing over 56% average possession often has far less than them. After a few tests I have found it to be manageable but it feels far less "natural" at times.

On 15/03/2021 at 10:06, LucasBR said:

Is it too risky to use a defensive midfielder as a deep lying playmaker on support duty with PI to mark tighter and tackle harder? Other midfielders I'm using a mezalla and advanced playmaker, both support duty.

In my books there is no innate "too risky". It is all a question of risk vs. reward. I routinely play with no classical holding players, MEZa in narrow formations, very high lines with extreme pressing intensity or other choices that a lot of experts would scoff at. But if it brings results, why change it?

For example: My experimental vh/vh dline with extreme pressing consisting out of two BDSt (with PPMs to act as secondary fullbacks) and a CDco often messed up and gave the opponent 1-v-1 chances when the Co missed his tackle or the St were dispossessed early, resulting in horrible xG against me. But the additional pressure of the St for late width and the general rate of pressing gave me even better ratings and plenty of fun games.

Was that approach risky? Yes. Was it "too risky"? Not really -- the risk was calculated. It wasn't a moment of tactical genius, reducing the risk ultimately proved more successful as a 4-2 xG often proves less valuable than a consistent 2-1one. But that changed approach was in the way it played out and how players acted a completely different tactic, so if I wanted to have these amazing BPD and pure entertainment, I had to gamble a few times! 

Similar goes for your tactic: If the players are acting like you want and are bringing results, the risk is always worth it. It might not be most efficient but sometimes seeing an idea play out or getting fun out of something is reward enough

[eXistenZ]

5 hours ago, Piperita said:

Forcing the opposition inside is essentially meaning defending wide and trying to defend the pitch side-to-side, stopping most crosses entirely. This naturally means that your fullbacks are engaging wingers and overlappers more often and that they are thus missing in the centre. Similarly your Central Defenders might venture more outside which means you concede aerial superiority in the box whenever a cross actually gets through.

I'd advise you to look at
1) How the crosses happen in the first place. Are your fullbacks overrun by doubled-down flanks? Are they overrun by pacier wingers? By tackles or superior dribbling? If you defend wide, especially in a wingerless system, the fullbacks must be pretty complete and have to at least buy plenty of time
2) How good your goalkeeper is at "Command of Area", "Anticipation", "Decisions", and to a lesser extent Jumping reach. If crosses get through and the defenders are spread, it is important that he is another body going for the ball instead of waiting for the finish
3) How is your DM faring? I like this position in wingerless systems as it protects against rebounds or late-arrivers. It can protect both against those and provide another body in the box. Question being -- where do the dangerous crosses land and from what situation? When they originate from counter-attacks or the FB losing the ball, a HBd can go a long way as they will be deepest down when caught. When they come from deep and arrive outside the box, a BWMd will get onto the target's foot immediately and force a hasty decision. A classical DMd can fill both roles solidly. A playmaker can offer the FB a target when they are attacked and thus eliminate these kinds of counters.

A cheap tactic I sometimes use (although mostly in a x-x-1-2 system) is creating some penetration from deeper positions and ordering my strikers (if they are pacy and fit enough) to man-mark the opponent's fullbacks. This creates some pretty unique movement when winning the ball helps the fullbacks out without sacrificing the midfield's compactness. Big downside being how complete such a striker needs to be...

Another trick that often helps me: A CAR but with some offensive PPM on the ball. When the fullback marches, he protects, if he gets the ball, he rushes forwards. I guess with a vanilla FBs even the hyper-offensive "Gets into Opposition Area" might work but once again -- this needs some pretty complete players. Otherwise the CAR will suffocate at halftime or leave even more room to exploit.

 

My fullbacks arent my top players, thats true. Therefore I'm limiting their passing to shorter/less risks.  I am using a DM(d) and a carillero Marking the fullbacks isnt a bad idea, my strikers ar epretty pacey

[Experienced Defender]

@Nozzer The kind of tactical question you asked is not a quick and simple one and therefore cannot be dealt with in this quickfire Q&A thread.

Please start your own separate thread and you'll get proper advice there. Thank you.

[BuzzR]

Does the passing directness & tempo directly affect the counter attack phase ?  

 

 

[Johnny Ace]

1 minute ago, BuzzR said:

Does the passing directness & tempo directly affect the counter attack phase ?  

 

 

No, when a Counter triggers TI's are overridden 

[zyfon5]

On 16/03/2021 at 05:00, palmamiguel92 said:

How do you normally go to away games? in this FM away games are 50x harder than normal even against same level opposition, my teams just seem afraid to pass the ball around and the defensive sector is very passive with odd marking and heading decisions leaving the AI striker 1v1 with the GK even with lower DL

Like how you approach your home game with a little bit more of caution. Accept that away games are tougher than home games for whatever reason and move on.

[kingjericho]

Often I have players picking up new traits even though I don't have any mentoring groups in place. Is this normal? (they're usually players under 24 and I'm on FMT)

[HUNT3R]

12 minutes ago, kingjericho said:

Often I have players picking up new traits even though I don't have any mentoring groups in place. Is this normal? (they're usually players under 24 and I'm on FMT)

Traits can be picked up in training units. AFAIK, it shouldn't be something that's described as 'often' though.

[kingjericho]

1 hour ago, HUNT3R said:

Traits can be picked up in training units. AFAIK, it shouldn't be something that's described as 'often' though.

Usually happens once or twice a season. They randomly pick up traits... some conflicting with what I want from them.

[arthurbf10]

A new 19yo keeper(perfeccionist personality) is arriving in the winter transfer window to eventually replace my 36yo keeper(model professional), whose contract ends in the end of the season. Should I put them in a mentoring group? Or is perfeccionist good enough? 

[BuzzR]

Setting up Opposition Instruction : "Closing down Always" on opposition wide players defeats the purpose of Defensive Width :" Force Opposition Outside " ?

 

 

[Experienced Defender]

2 hours ago, BuzzR said:

Setting up Opposition Instruction : "Closing down Always" on opposition wide players defeats the purpose of Defensive Width :" Force Opposition Outside " ?

 

 

No. Looking to force them outside does not mean that you don't want to close them down. 

[llado01]

hi lads!

what's the best way to approach a match vs one team who sit down and park the bus? 

and vs a team who does a opposite (high d-line) ?

 

thanks a lot!

Edited March 19, 2021 by llado01

[Johnny Ace]

5 hours ago, llado01 said:

hi lads!

what's the best way to approach a match vs one team who sit down and park the bus? 

and vs a team who does a opposite (high d-line) ?

 

thanks a lot!

1) Two ways, you can try & brute force your way through if your team are better than theirs, you know, raise the tempo, get more bodies forward or you can take the patient approach where you slow things down & try & pass your way through & work for better quality chances

2) Direct passing with someone quick who can get on the end of balls, pass into space etc  

[BuzzR]

Are there extra ( hard coded ) differences between Deep Lying Playmaker role and Central Midfielder role with the PI from the DLP ?  

Thank you.

Edited March 19, 2021 by BuzzR
spelling

[Experienced Defender]

1 hour ago, BuzzR said:

Are there extra ( hard coded ) differences between Deep Lying Playmaker role and Central Midfielder role with the PI from the DLP ?  

Of course there are hard-coded differences. For one, unlike the DLP, who is a playmaker role, the CM is not a ball-magnet. 

Every role has its hard-coded behavior under the hood. Otherwise, roles as such would not exist in the game in the first place.

[eXistenZ]

Play out of defence, take less risk as PI and dribble less as TI. Standard passing. And still my central defenders just boot it upfield to the opposition despite players being available. They are supposed to be my better players

 

What more can i do?

[Experienced Defender]

42 minutes ago, eXistenZ said:

Play out of defence, take less risk as PI and dribble less as TI. Standard passing. And still my central defenders just boot it upfield to the opposition despite players being available. They are supposed to be my better players

 

What more can i do?

Start your own separate thread and post a screenshot of your tactic there (not here), because we need to see your tactic as a whole in order to see what could be the cause of your problem.

[Keyzer Soze]

Hi, 

Does anyone knows how long does it take to a player to unlearn a trait? 

I have this forward with the trait like to try to beat offside, and since pre-season (mid August) i set him to unlearn that trait. I'm now in February, and he still trying to unlearn it. 

Am I missing something here? 

[Experienced Defender]

2 hours ago, Keyzer Soze said:

Hi, 

Does anyone knows how long does it take to a player to unlearn a trait? 

I have this forward with the trait like to try to beat offside, and since pre-season (mid August) i set him to unlearn that trait. I'm now in February, and he still trying to unlearn it. 

Am I missing something here? 

That varies from player to player, just like learning traits. I suppose there are some attributes (possibly hidden ones) that may affect it, but not sure really.

[07slyon]

Hello!

 

I was wondering if there were any tips on training for a semi-pro team? I understand that you can only train a few times a week due to being semi-pro, but I was wondering due to the lack time for training, what should the focus be? More general and overall training, or more match/tactic based familiarity

[Keyzer Soze]

11 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

That varies from player to player, just like learning traits. I suppose there are some attributes (possibly hidden ones) that may affect it, but not sure really.

Thanks for the reply. 

Is there any other mod, or other user, that knows what hidden attributes affect the learning/unlearning trait? 

[Experienced Defender]

28 minutes ago, Keyzer Soze said:

Is there any other mod, or other user, that knows what hidden attributes affect the learning/unlearning trait?

@Seb Wassell @Rashidi @HUNT3R @herne79 Anyone?

[Bakiano]

When you select some opposition instructions by position, will they be every match from then? Or must I select every game?

[Experienced Defender]

15 minutes ago, Bakiano said:

When you select some opposition instructions by position, will they be every match from then? Or must I select every game?

If I remember correctly, positional OIs should automatically apply to every match. So you probably don't need to select them again.

[Tom14]

13 hours ago, 07slyon said:

Hello!

 

I was wondering if there were any tips on training for a semi-pro team? I understand that you can only train a few times a week due to being semi-pro, but I was wondering due to the lack time for training, what should the focus be? More general and overall training, or more match/tactic based familiarity

I have never been able to get any discernible improvements in player attributes from training on a semi-pro schedule. I'm sure contributing factors to this are a lack of facilities and the quality of the training staff given the standard at that level. With that in mind I tend to have 3 schedules for match preparation and one for match tactics.

[Sharkn20]

What is the Hierachy to follow tacticao instructions?

Traits > PI > TI > OI?

Or something similar?

Thanks!

[backpocket]

If a player has no role training and only additional training (eg. Defensive positioning) will that be trained more? 
 

[Experienced Defender]

11 hours ago, Sharkn20 said:

What is the Hierachy to follow tacticao instructions?

Traits > PI > TI > OI?

Or something similar?

Thanks!

Traits > PI > TI. 

OIs are a different type of instructions and should not be confused with the above three.

[Experienced Defender]

6 hours ago, backpocket said:

If a player has no role training and only additional training (eg. Defensive positioning) will that be trained more? 
 

As far as I know, there is no difference in terms of how much training the additional focus will get.

[Sharkn20]

6 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

Traits > PI > TI. 

OIs are a different type of instructions and should not be confused with the above three.

Thanks!

[backpocket]

On 22/03/2021 at 21:05, Experienced Defender said:

As far as I know, there is no difference in terms of how much training the additional focus will get.

That actually makes sense. Thanks!

[woland]

Hello Everyone,

if i need a player, who should provide a safe passing option, what Attribute is more important: Off the ball or Teamwork?

[Experienced Defender]

1 hour ago, woland said:

Hello Everyone,

if i need a player, who should provide a safe passing option, what Attribute is more important: Off the ball or Teamwork?

Off the ball (IMHO).

[Prolix]

[FM20] I have a CM/DM with the "brings ball out of defence" PPM. The in-game description and online discussions about the trait imply that this is a trait for defenders. Would this behavior only present itself if the player would play (out of position) in the defensive strata? Or will it encourage the player to dribble more in situations where he picks up the ball in his own defensive third irrespective of his position on the tactical screen?

[HUNT3R]

3 minutes ago, Prolix said:

[FM20] I have a CM/DM with the "brings ball out of defence" PPM. The in-game description and online discussions about the trait imply that this is a trait for defenders. Would this behavior only present itself if the player would play (out of position) in the defensive strata? Or will it encourage the player to dribble more in situations where he picks up the ball in his own defensive third irrespective of his position on the tactical screen?

It applies only to players in the DC position.

[Britrock]

Is there a way to train the trait "plays one twos" or is that one of the ones that can only be transferred between players? I really wanted to give it to my AMC but I can't see it in the options anywhere

[HUNT3R]

2 minutes ago, Britrock said:

Is there a way to train the trait "plays one twos" or is that one of the ones that can only be transferred between players? I really wanted to give it to my AMC but I can't see it in the options anywhere

It's under Movement Training.

[Britrock]

9 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

It's under Movement Training.

Aha, so it is! I must have missed it scrolling through all of those options. Thanks!

[FMunderachiever]

Why cant you shout more during the match?

Why do you have to wait 15 minutes every time?

[Gbrexiton]

What is the relationship between the D Line and the LOE? More specifically, when would you put the D Line at a higher value than the LOE, and vice versa.

[dejarik]

Why do players change their Current Ability even when they don’t change attributes? 
Example: My 29 year old Jamaal Lascelles is now a “Good Premier League Player”, and he was previously (like a month ago) “a decent player”. This is also shown on the Progress bar, where it seems the stars change even when the player doesn’t change. I haven’t had any new signings either, this is in May.