Quickfire Questions and Answers Thread (Tactic and Training Questions Only)

[eXistenZ]

12 hours ago, Zemahh said:

I wouldn't rush the mentoring, unless they're good enough to actually get some playing time. If they're going to be in the first team, they're likely to miss out on a lot of training due to more matches and rest days and since training takes precedence before the age of 18, that could stifle their development quite a bit. You can always mentor them once they turn 18 and playing time becomes more important, at which point they should either make the bench or get loaned out anyway.

You can teach them traits immediately though, it's correct younger players usually have an easier time learning them.

What about adding them to the training unit instead of moving them?

 

How does it take for a change in personality on average?

Edited May 23, 2021 by eXistenZ

[CARRERA]

5 hours ago, Nick_CB said:

Is Moves Into Channels interesting for a striker (support)? I was unable to interpret these traits well, will he only make horizontal movements or can I expect him to fall deeper? 

Yes, move into channels can be great for a striker, as it creates additional movement in the final third. The player will move into channels/ half spaces to hopefully receive a pass or pull a defender out of position to open up space for someone else.

it has nothing to do though how deep the player will drop. 

[Zemahh]

5 hours ago, eXistenZ said:

What about adding them to the training unit instead of moving them?

Sorry, I've no idea how moving a youngster into one of the main team's training units would work. Not sure what's the actual difference between that and him being in the first team full time, maybe someone with more knowledge on training can help.

This tweet from @Seb Wassell suggests players in the same training unit are more likely to get influenced by each other, but I'm not sure whether that's conditioned by them being in the same squad or not.

Edited May 23, 2021 by Zemahh

[NotSoSpecialOne]

I would be intrigued to know what the difference is between having young player X in the first team training unit but in the reserve/youth squad vs young player Y in the first team squad (and therefore, defacto training with the first team) also, assuming all other factors equal. Should such a difference exist, that is.

[CARRERA]

44 minutes ago, NotSoSpecialOne said:

I would be intrigued to know what the difference is between having young player X in the first team training unit but in the reserve/youth squad vs young player Y in the first team squad (and therefore, defacto training with the first team) also, assuming all other factors equal. Should such a difference exist, that is.

I’m interested in that too. I have an idea, but I can’t fully confirm that.

as far as I know young players can develop more quickly in the youth squad. Though they can benefit from better training quality when allowed to train with the first team 

this is quoted from manual.

„Players from the Reserve or Youth Teams may be invited to take part in a Unit at any time, and benefit from exposure to a higher standard of training, in turn improving their overall prospects of developing towards their potential.“

[phnompenhandy]

4 hours ago, CARRERA said:

they can benefit from better training quality when allowed to train with the first team 

The quality might be better, but they'll rest when the first team rests and plays, and then play youth matches when the first team trains.

[eXistenZ]

I've opted to leave them in the youth team, but I added them to the training units with the option top right in the unit section. Now I can also mentor them

[NotSoSpecialOne]

17 hours ago, CARRERA said:

I’m interested in that too. I have an idea, but I can’t fully confirm that.

as far as I know young players can develop more quickly in the youth squad. Though they can benefit from better training quality when allowed to train with the first team 

this is quoted from manual.

„Players from the Reserve or Youth Teams may be invited to take part in a Unit at any time, and benefit from exposure to a higher standard of training, in turn improving their overall prospects of developing towards their potential.“

Sorry, let me clarify what I meant:

We have two players who for the purpose of the scenario are identical:

Player 1 is in the first team squad. Player 2 is in the youth team squad.

Player 1 is training with the first team by virtue of being in the squad. Player 2 has been added to the first team training units as well but remains in the youth squad.

Player 1 has been made available for youth team games indefinitely @ 90 minutes. Player 2 will also play in said games because he is in the youth squad.

Essentially they are getting the same game experience and training, the only thing that is different is which squad they're in. As such I'm wondering whether both methods are functionally identical or if there are pros and cons to each. Though now I've gone and typed this out, I guess one such benefit would be Player 1 being able to further be added to mentoring groups vs Player 2. I had considered first team matches as well, but league dependent, you can slot reserve/youth players in without moving squads (thanks to squad view filters). 

[phnompenhandy]

33 minutes ago, NotSoSpecialOne said:

Essentially they are getting the same game experience and training,

But they're not, as I explained above.

[NotSoSpecialOne]

7 minutes ago, phnompenhandy said:

But they're not, as I explained above.

My post isn't talking about training with the first team vs training with the youth team, so it isn't. If it is an explanation, I humbly request further elaboration.

Edited May 24, 2021 by NotSoSpecialOne

[CARRERA]

1 hour ago, NotSoSpecialOne said:

Sorry, let me clarify what I meant:

We have two players who for the purpose of the scenario are identical:

Player 1 is in the first team squad. Player 2 is in the youth team squad.

Player 1 is training with the first team by virtue of being in the squad. Player 2 has been added to the first team training units as well but remains in the youth squad.

Player 1 has been made available for youth team games indefinitely @ 90 minutes. Player 2 will also play in said games because he is in the youth squad.

Essentially they are getting the same game experience and training, the only thing that is different is which squad they're in. As such I'm wondering whether both methods are functionally identical or if there are pros and cons to each. Though now I've gone and typed this out, I guess one such benefit would be Player 1 being able to further be added to mentoring groups vs Player 2. I had considered first team matches as well, but league dependent, you can slot reserve/youth players in without moving squads (thanks to squad view filters). 

I have to pass this one, maybe someone else has an answer.

it sounds the same but maybe there is something under the hood that makes players from youth squad develop at a different Speed anyway. But as I said, an absolute guess

[Footix]

My wingbacks won't cross the ball. I give them instructions such as "cross more often" and "dribble less", but once they reach the byline they still hold on to the ball far too long and the cross is blocked. 

Frankly, I don't care if I have a lot of players  in the box or not. I want the wide men to cross regardless, we can fight for the header in the box and then fight for rebounds. 

How can I make this happen?

[phnompenhandy]

17 minutes ago, Footix said:

My wingbacks won't cross the ball. I give them instructions such as "cross more often" and "dribble less", but once they reach the byline they still hold on to the ball far too long and the cross is blocked. 

Frankly, I don't care if I have a lot of players  in the box or not. I want the wide men to cross regardless, we can fight for the header in the box and then fight for rebounds. 

How can I make this happen?

You don't have overlap or underlap TI on, do you?

[Footix]

Just now, phnompenhandy said:

You don't have overlap or underlap TI on, do you?

Nope

[phnompenhandy]

I'm still playing FM19, starting in the lower leagues. For many seasons I couldn't get my wingbacks to cross or get the ball past the first man. I wasn't sure if it was a bug in the ME. But once I got to a high level and my wingbacks had put in many years of training, suddenly they were crossing. It seems to me a combo of attributes have to be at a certain level to be successful. I did find a way around it though - inverted wingbacks. They cut inside and pass - which is not what you want, but I found it was what worked for me.

 

Having said that, what is your successful crossing percentage? In real life, 20% would be outstanding.

[Experienced Defender]

@Footix Start your own separate thread if you want your question to be answered properly. It is not a quick and simple question and hence does not belong to this quickfire thread.

[hehehemann]

Experienced Defender - "What "fluidity setting"? As of FM19, team fluidity is primarily just a label and has nothing to do with the "Team shape" instruction from earlier versions."

 

I'm just wondering what this label means if it has no relevance.  

In my 4-4-2 tactic most of the players play with a support duty role and this shows as a "very fluid" team mentality. If I was to make an alteration to the tactic, change the WM support role to a defend or attack role the team fluidity changes to a "fluid" label and teams tactical familiarity for creative freedom drops. 

So if this changes your teams tactical familiarity then its more than a label ??

I'm just confused by it, maybe its the teams creative freedom that I dont understand ??

 

 

 

[Rashidi]

14 hours ago, hehehemann said:

Experienced Defender - "What "fluidity setting"? As of FM19, team fluidity is primarily just a label and has nothing to do with the "Team shape" instruction from earlier versions."

 

I'm just wondering what this label means if it has no relevance.  

In my 4-4-2 tactic most of the players play with a support duty role and this shows as a "very fluid" team mentality. If I was to make an alteration to the tactic, change the WM support role to a defend or attack role the team fluidity changes to a "fluid" label and teams tactical familiarity for creative freedom drops. 

So if this changes your teams tactical familiarity then its more than a label ??

I'm just confused by it, maybe its the teams creative freedom that I dont understand ??

 

 

 

It’s just a label now used to indicate the number of support duties and the impact of some roles. And, yes changes in individual roles creative freedom can impact the label, though we aren’t privy to how much as we are not meant to know the differences In CF amongst different roles.

 

So as far as we should be concerned it’s a label. I personally just use it to tell myself - if a team is fluid they play as one group all performing the same duty and when they play as structured there are clearly defined groups.

[mikcheck]

Hi. Can someone please explain me what could be the reason why players like Gabriel Menino and Florian Wirtz are so behind in tactic familiarity? They've been playing the same role for quite some time. Thank you.

[sonnevillejr]

Given that general mentality affects individual mentality, does that mean that the higher the mentality, the less attack duties must be distributed ? Or am I completely wrong

[CaptCanuck]

8 minutes ago, mikcheck said:

Hi. Can someone please explain me what could be the reason why players like Gabriel Menino and Florian Wirtz are so behind in tactic familiarity? They've been playing the same role for quite some time. Thank you.

Not to overstate the obvious, but is Wirtz being trained as a BBM and is Menino being trained as a FB?

[mikcheck]

15 minutos atrás, CaptCanuck disse:

Not to overstate the obvious, but is Wirtz being trained as a BBM and is Menino being trained as a FB?

No, but barely any player in the squad train the same role they play. I focus on attributes, so some players train the same role, but most of them don't. For example, Bailey has RMD role training.

Does that negatively impact the players performance? 

Edited May 26, 2021 by mikcheck

[CaptCanuck]

22 minutes ago, mikcheck said:

No, but barely any player in the squad train the same role they play. I focus on attributes, so some players train the same role, but most of them don't. For example, Bailey has RMD role training.

Does that negatively impact the players performance? 

Gotcha - if the squad is playing well and you like what you see I wouldn't worry about it. It's just to explicitly answer your Q, if you want to see that familiarity bar be full green that is a way to do it.

I've got a couple guys I am training as Mezalas and I don't even have that position in my current formation, as like you I liked what attributes it focused on. They might play as an AM, DM, or DLF.

Does it negatively impact them in some way? I don't know, but the results are there, so that's the important bit.

Edited May 26, 2021 by CaptCanuck

[Zemahh]

13 minutes ago, sonnevillejr said:

Given that general mentality affects individual mentality, does that mean that the higher the mentality, the less attack duties must be distributed ? Or am I completely wrong

There doesn't need to be less Attack duties. Hard rules like that don't exist, there's a lot of different combinations that can work in different playing styles, provided that they make sense for your personnel and opposition you're facing.

However, you're completely correct in that mentality affects individual mentalities across the board, which means a Support duty on an Attacking mentality can be more attacking than an Attack duty on a Defensive one. And so in order to achieve some balance and avoid extremes, it's recommended you take your mentality into account when choosing duties.

That said, if an extreme style is what you're looking for (either extremely high-risk attacking football or extremely low-risk defensive one), there's nothing stopping you from combining an Attacking mentality with multiple Attack duties, or a Defensive one with multiple Defend duties. In fact, some of the most successful plug-n-play tactics are extremely successful exactly because they're tapping into those extremes. They might not be very logical or make much football sense, but they can clearly work in FM terms.

If you're looking for more on managing risk with duties, I suggest this thread.

[sonnevillejr]

28 minutes ago, Zemahh said:

There doesn't need to be less Attack duties. Hard rules like that don't exist, there's a lot of different combinations that can work in different playing styles, provided that they make sense for your personnel and opposition you're facing.

However, you're completely correct in that mentality affects individual mentalities across the board, which means a Support duty on an Attacking mentality can be more attacking than an Attack duty on a Defensive one. And so in order to achieve some balance and avoid extremes, it's recommended you take your mentality into account when choosing duties.

That said, if an extreme style is what you're looking for (either extremely high-risk attacking football or extremely low-risk defensive one), there's nothing stopping you from combining an Attacking mentality with multiple Attack duties, or a Defensive one with multiple Defend duties. In fact, some of the most successful plug-n-play tactics are extremely successful exactly because they're tapping into those extremes. They might not be very logical or make much football sense, but they can clearly work in FM terms.

If you're looking for more on managing risk with duties, I suggest this thread.

Thank you for your answer  

[Luizinho]

Just how important are the roles star ratings? Does it have any impact on the effectiveness of a players (maybe through some internal ME calculation)?

 

I want to use Pedri as a Mez (S), however I don't want the player to move into the half-space. So I'm considering using a CM (S) with some additional PIs (roam from position and get further forward). He's rating as a Mez (S) is 3 star, whereas it's only 2 star as CM (S).

[NotSoSpecialOne]

Think of them as suggestions for newer players who may not be able to judge whether a player can play a role or not based on their attributes.

[Experienced Defender]

39 minutes ago, Luizinho said:

Just how important are the roles star ratings? Does it have any impact on the effectiveness of a players (maybe through some internal ME calculation)?

If a player has the right set of attributes for a role, you can play him in that role, no matter how many (or few) stars it shows.

[Rashidi]

9 hours ago, sonnevillejr said:

Given that general mentality affects individual mentality, does that mean that the higher the mentality, the less attack duties must be distributed ? Or am I completely wrong

No such rule. Be careful of applying "rules" to the game. There are loads of these:
 

 

Quote

You should use a player in a certain role only if he has the attributes for it.

Bad rule cos a  player can play in ANY role, their attributes just make them play differently.

Quote

2. You must never use a fullback playing on the flank opposite his preferred foot.

Poor rule cos again playing one in such a way simply means that you will get him behaving differently which can be an asset. For some roles it gives more differentiation. You should need to pay attention to whether he is familiar with the position.

You can play ANY distribution of duties on ANY mentality. it's one of my personal gripes that the tactical creator offers advice like you should have less attacking duties because you are on a defensive mentality. I have been trying to get SI to remove that advice since i saw it implemented because it's a rule base that is used by the AI to set up tactics, but it doesn't apply to human play. Simply because as a human you can opt to combine roles and duties in certain ways. All you need to do is make sure you account for the attacking duties being slow to recover during a defensive transition. Again one could create a tactic with an attacking mentality and have only 1 attack duty. You just have a team that is all playing on attacking mentality, all support duties will get forward to help in attacking transitions, but if you understand what that does to your defensive transition then you will know that players could be out of position when they recover from a quick transition.

This game offers people many different ways to approach it and you should try them and not be afraid to experiment. So long as your tactic makes sense, chances are most of the time the reason why you aren't performing well could be down to not really understanding how your players are performing within their roles and within an attacking or defensive unit.

[Keyzer Soze]

Hi, 

Does it make sense playing with a lower LOE and adding the instruction to prevent goalkeeper distribution? Or to use that instruction I must always have a higher/very high LOE? 

[CARRERA]

3 hours ago, Keyzer Soze said:

Hi, 

Does it make sense playing with a lower LOE and adding the instruction to prevent goalkeeper distribution? Or to use that instruction I must always have a higher/very high LOE? 

Not necessarily, prevent GK distribution will instruct your forwards to tighter mark the defenders when GK has possession.

so the question is wether it makes sense in your tactical system to mark tight high up the pitch if you want to fall back and start your pressing line in deeper areas. It might occur gaps as your strikers need to travel quite some time before the in defensive shape to start the press. 

[davenumber40]

Do you have to train the tactic your planning on using in a match the week before in order to get the boost from match prep sessions?

I've realized I will generally set whichever of my tactics has the lowest familiarity as the primary tactic for training regardless of whether I plan on using it a given week. 

[Experienced Defender]

1 hour ago, davenumber40 said:

Do you have to train the tactic your planning on using in a match the week before in order to get the boost from match prep sessions?

Logically speaking, yes. At least I personally always set for training the tactic I intend to use in the next match.

But there are possibly people who do or think otherwise, so I am not going to claim anything for sure.

[eXistenZ]

I have this 16y ol defender with low determination. I want to stick him in a mentoring group, so o the training-units, i moved him to the defensive unit.

 

yet i cant add him to a mentoring group? but it's working with 3 other players? what can be the cause of this?

[phnompenhandy]

Questions about PRESSING.

 

You've got TIs: Counter-Press and Pressing Intensity.

You've got PIs to press more.

You've got OIs to press selected opponents.

Is it crazy overkill to do all of this or is it fine? What is the logic for having high pressing urgency as a TI and press as an OI? If you counter-press as a team, should you have lower pressing intensity as a team? I'm trying to understand all the permutations here.

[NotSoSpecialOne]

Counter-Press is an in transition instruction; your players will press when losing the ball and then revert to whatever your Line of Engagement and Pressing Intensity are. Pressing Intensity doesn't affect Counter Press. As such, both a high or low intensity could be valid.

I yield the OI part to a more experienced individual though.

 

 

[Rashidi]

On 02/08/2008 at 15:58, Cush said:

Why do have morale issues with some players? We have just got promoted, against the odds, and after 10-15 games, despite the media predictions we are in a very healthy 12-13th place.

There are a few players who are regulars in my first 11, who are playing well and have no concerns in their "personal" section (one of them even has "pleased to have signed a new contract!") yet have morales of poor or very poor.

How can I cheer them up?

Generally with good performances, making sure you handle their concerns which can include contract issues etc. Even if you win every game a player can still be unhappy with you however the question is whether an unhappy person also leads to bad results. Generally this is driven by the personality of players, some players might be ambitious by nature and want to leave for bigger clubs. So if you want them to be happy you need to become a bigger club too. So its impossible to cheer everyone up. You have to accept that some cannot be made happy simply because you can't fulfil each players desires.

On 28/05/2021 at 05:05, eXistenZ said:

I have this 16y ol defender with low determination. I want to stick him in a mentoring group, so o the training-units, i moved him to the defensive unit.

 

yet i cant add him to a mentoring group? but it's working with 3 other players? what can be the cause of this?

 

Is he in the same squad?

7 hours ago, phnompenhandy said:

Questions about PRESSING.

 

You've got TIs: Counter-Press and Pressing Intensity.

You've got PIs to press more.

You've got OIs to press selected opponents.

Is it crazy overkill to do all of this or is it fine? What is the logic for having high pressing urgency as a TI and press as an OI? If you counter-press as a team, should you have lower pressing intensity as a team? I'm trying to understand all the permutations here.

Don't over think it.

Team instruction - affects whole team. 
Counter pressing is simply transitional like others have said. EVERY time you lose the ball your players break formation to try and win the ball back.

Pressing always responds to your LOE. Finally OIs, this is the only tool in the game that can target opposition players specifically. So it's relative to where that player is on the screen within reason.

 

[fraudiola]

are opposite footed wingers naturally inclined to cut in or move inwards without the cut inside ppm? 

[eXistenZ]

5 hours ago, Rashidi said:

Is he in the same squad?

 

no, but normally you can add U23/U18 by the unit section, right? I did that but I still couldnt add him to a mentoring group (unlike two strikers).

Ive moved him and made him available for U18, now it works

[Experienced Defender]

1 hour ago, fraudiola said:

are opposite footed wingers naturally inclined to cut in or move inwards without the cut inside ppm? 

Yes. Which does not mean that they will do that in every single situation.

[fraudiola]

is there any reason why the same players are taking longer to learn PPMs? no staff changes. training facility got upgraded too. 

same player that learned run the down the left in 5 months is taking +2 years to learn hug line. same with everyone else. took 7 months for the first PPM but now everyones stuck learning the same PPM for the past 2 years. 

[Experienced Defender]

56 minutes ago, fraudiola said:

is there any reason why the same players are taking longer to learn PPMs? no staff changes. training facility got upgraded too. 

same player that learned run the down the left in 5 months is taking +2 years to learn hug line. same with everyone else. took 7 months for the first PPM but now everyones stuck learning the same PPM for the past 2 years. 

I don't know the exact answer, because I am not a game developer and hence don't know what happens under the hood. But I can assume that if you ask a lot of players to learn new traits, your coaches will logically have less time to dedicate to each of them when it comes to learning those new traits, which may explain why the process is so slow.

Again, it's just my guess.

[eXistenZ]

Why are players sometimes trained in positions despite you having control over the training?

For example below. This is a striker with advanced forward training, yet apparently he is picking up midfielder positioning?

[NotSoSpecialOne]

Was he on central midfield training before you took control? Is he in the youth squad and has been played there?

@eXistenZ

Edited May 31, 2021 by Experienced Defender

[eXistenZ]

36 minutes ago, NotSoSpecialOne said:

Was he on central midfield training before you took control? Is he in the youth squad and has been played there?

@eXistenZ

no, this is his third year at my club, always been on striker training

[phnompenhandy]

My Opposition Scout Reports now always focus on the oppo's formation. This is not the information I want. I changed the scout but get the same information. Is there something I can change or look for in a scout's preferences or attributes to get info on dangermen, weaknesses and other information on the opposition? I can click on a small link and get the whole Team Report page, but there'd be no point having a scout then. [This is FM19 if it makes any difference].

[herne79]

9 hours ago, eXistenZ said:

Why are players sometimes trained in positions despite you having control over the training?

For example below. This is a striker with advanced forward training, yet apparently he is picking up midfielder positioning?

 

9 hours ago, NotSoSpecialOne said:

Was he on central midfield training before you took control? Is he in the youth squad and has been played there?

@eXistenZ

 

8 hours ago, eXistenZ said:

no, this is his third year at my club, always been on striker training

If he has been played during a match in that position, even for a few minutes, it'll show up as this "new" position.  Perhaps you played him there once during a match?  Or if you are letting your assistant manager take charge of matches by either Instant Result or holidaying then he probably did it.

Either way it's not a big deal.

[Experienced Defender]

8 hours ago, phnompenhandy said:

My Opposition Scout Reports now always focus on the oppo's formation. This is not the information I want. I changed the scout but get the same information. Is there something I can change or look for in a scout's preferences or attributes to get info on dangermen, weaknesses and other information on the opposition? I can click on a small link and get the whole Team Report page, but there'd be no point having a scout then. [This is FM19 if it makes any difference].

Opposition scout report deals with the expected opposition tactic (not only formation, but also roles, mentality and some basic info about their pressing, marking and passing styles). However, the specific info you are looking for is not I available (AFAIK).

[sonnevillejr]

Is the « work ball into box » instruction relevant in a tactic based on quick transitions? I have a PF(a), AP(s) and 2 IW(A) and sometimes against deeper defenses, they tend to shot on the defenders when it’s not useful, and in the end I have a high number of shots but not all of them are dangerous 

[phnompenhandy]

3 hours ago, sonnevillejr said:

Is the « work ball into box » instruction relevant in a tactic based on quick transitions? I have a PF(a), AP(s) and 2 IW(A) and sometimes against deeper defenses, they tend to shot on the defenders when it’s not useful, and in the end I have a high number of shots but not all of them are dangerous 

More like it slows down a transition. That's not to say it won't work in your situation although I'd be looking at increasing creativity and lowering tempo.