FM2011 : Patching plans

[kingjericho]

me stupid. I misread it as a "day one after the demo" patch.

[agoran]

i think that they must release patch very quick because

-attributes are unreal

-many 1 on 1 opportunities(little goals)--unreal

-i receive goals in last ten minutes from corners often

-players who played DM roles don't play what i said they play strange (i said to play defensive with little attack but they always go in attack)

-in every game i receive min. 6 yellow card but i play cautious tackling...

i can't understand have you tested this game??? to much bugs for new game...and this bugs are bigg

[GJS93]

"Same with what is going on at Dundee"

not read every post but with the addition of different owners for Liverpool in the new patch, will their be any data changes at all done ie Dundee player/staff redundancies along with any other transfers/managerial changes? or will there be none and only data changes take place as suggested in the blog after the January window?

[Ter]

"Same with what is going on at Dundee"

not read every post but with the addition of different owners for Liverpool in the new patch, will their be any data changes at all done ie Dundee player/staff redundancies along with any other transfers/managerial changes? or will there be none and only data changes take place as suggested in the blog after the January window?

I've not seen the new data yet so I have no idea. Sorry.

[englandmanager]

i think that they must release patch very quick because

-attributes are unreal

-many 1 on 1 opportunities(little goals)--unreal

-i receive goals in last ten minutes from corners often

-players who played DM roles don't play what i said they play strange (i said to play defensive with little attack but they always go in attack)

-in every game i receive min. 6 yellow card but i play cautious tackling...

i can't understand have you tested this game??? to much bugs for new game...and this bugs are bigg

attributes aren't a bug take that to the data researcher for the required team

[SCIAG]

i think that they must release patch very quick because

-attributes are unreal

-many 1 on 1 opportunities(little goals)--unreal

-i receive goals in last ten minutes from corners often

-players who played DM roles don't play what i said they play strange (i said to play defensive with little attack but they always go in attack)

-in every game i receive min. 6 yellow card but i play cautious tackling...

i can't understand have you tested this game??? to much bugs for new game...and this bugs are bigg

I'm guessing you play with an attacking strategy? That results in harder tackling, and would result in DMs moving forward more.

I'll be honest, I've not had any of your problems.

[Prongsie92]

Good ol'SI, once again proving why the FM series is the one that many continue to play

[Tom14]

The number of 'newbies' I've seen on this forum with ridiculous posts is worrying me. How on Earth people have the patience with them is a mystery.

Glad to hear a patch is arriving on day 1. Demo so far is quite impressive.

[SCIAG]

The number of 'newbies' I've seen on this forum with ridiculous posts is worrying me. How on Earth people have the patience with them is a mystery.

This year has been pretty quiet, if I'm honest. I am 100% certain this is due to my brilliant moderation.

[Fabio MVP]

This year has been pretty quiet, if I'm honest. I am 100% certain this is due to my brilliant moderation.

Newbies are afraid of you!

[scholes=legend]

Hope that the captain description on personal page is chucked back in, dissapointed to see that had gone this year.

[Matty_efc]

I'm not going to fork out £50 on release

Try half of that maybe, if you pay £50 you have been ripped off by the shop, not SI

[Chillitsphil]

It would be really great if the bug which causes the game to crash dump every time I click a board request as Woking were to be fixed on the first patch - only I have a large network game with my mates planned and I have already been stuck with Woking!

[kabajingai]

A Dark skin...! Thank God. Thanks Miles et al. KUTGW.

[Rhodesy]

Chuffed with the dark skin.

[pelicanstuff]

That's convinced me to wait untill after Christmas to buy FM11.

I also want to point out that I am pretty disappointed by this "patch schedule" at SI. Scheduling patches prior to release basically means you have no intention of reacting in real time to any major bugs that may exist within the game, which essentially means that if the game is broken at release it will remain broken until it suits your schedule to fix it.

I'm not going to fork out £50 on release knowing you don't intend to resolve any issues in the game until the Christmas gift rush. And I don't like that kind of support for games period. It smacks of quality being low down on the priority list.

If they were constantly patching every couple of weeks or even every month it would take time away from the actual fixes as each patch would have to be QAd by both SI and Sega before release. Three patches minimum is pretty outstanding for a game that comes out yearly.

The main thing I hope can be fixed by the release day patch is the no-goalkeeper bug.

[Ropa23]

That's convinced me to wait untill after Christmas to buy FM11.

I also want to point out that I am pretty disappointed by this "patch schedule" at SI. Scheduling patches prior to release basically means you have no intention of reacting in real time to any major bugs that may exist within the game, which essentially means that if the game is broken at release it will remain broken until it suits your schedule to fix it.

I'm not going to fork out £50 on release knowing you don't intend to resolve any issues in the game until the Christmas gift rush. And I don't like that kind of support for games period. It smacks of quality being low down on the priority list.

£50?? :confused:

You can get it for half the price!

[Kickballz]

With all due respect to SI

I have reported several serious bugs in previous versions, none of which were highest priority, ie resulting in a crash, although they did affect the enjoyment of the game.

None of these bugs were addressed by the final patch at any time, and in most cases they were carried through to the next version.

For me, I have found this disappointing. I understand that bugs must pe prioritized, but at times is seems that they are just outright ignored. Surely there can be no excuse for ignoring issues for 2, 3 or even 4 years, as some have claimed.

[Tom14]

Which issues have been "ignored for 2, 3 or even 4 years"?

[darkbright]

Good idea for a day one patch. Both as a Liverpool fan and someone who has sore eyes due to the slightly too bright skin.

Well done SI

[Boroboy100]

They ALWAYS release a Day One Patch...for as long as I can remember. Mainly because something always happens that is beyond SI's control eg the Liverpool takeover and more improtantly the Portsmouth issue, although I seem to remember something similar happening this time last year with Portsmouth and the line from SI was, because they STARTED the season in exsistence they would NOT be removed in any patches....so I'm guessing that this is the same for FM11. Portsmouth could be an interesting game to start with tho.

[Tom14]

They ALWAYS release a Day One Patch...for as long as I can remember. Mainly because something always happens that is beyond SI's control eg the Liverpool takeover and more improtantly the Portsmouth issue, although I seem to remember something similar happening this time last year with Portsmouth and the line from SI was, because they STARTED the season in exsistence they would NOT be removed in any patches....so I'm guessing that this is the same for FM11. Portsmouth could be an interesting game to start with tho.

Last years patch on day 1 was because Stephen Carr was retired in the database as far as I can remember.

[djvandyke]

Very strange way of thinking to schedule a fix before you know what the problem is.

[Ritari]

does seem a little silly to release a patch just to cover a takeover, but if you include bug fixes from the demo it will be worthwhile

Well, last year they released a release-day patch to add one player to the db, who had originally retired, but then returned suddenly. The situation with Liverpool is a lot bigger than missing one player.

[Misch]

its very good that they include dark skin...

[Matt ex SEGA]

That's convinced me to wait untill after Christmas to buy FM11.

I also want to point out that I am pretty disappointed by this "patch schedule" at SI. Scheduling patches prior to release basically means you have no intention of reacting in real time to any major bugs that may exist within the game, which essentially means that if the game is broken at release it will remain broken until it suits your schedule to fix it.

I'm not going to fork out £50 on release knowing you don't intend to resolve any issues in the game until the Christmas gift rush. And I don't like that kind of support for games period. It smacks of quality being low down on the priority list.

That's an interesting read.

Everyone knows SI will patch the game so I'm not going to discuss the merits of that.

Everyone who's been here for a while has seen that there's a preference from the community for SI to provide some insight into what they're doing as regards the key points of any FM release (demo, launch day, distribution methods, patches).

So here we are, two weeks before the game releases, and SI make the point that initially, they hadn't planned a launch day patch. However - their initial plan has now been changed because of an issue they consider serious enough to warrant it.

And yet you seem to still be under the impression that SI won't respond to any issues that may present themselves in between those patches. How, from them doing exactly what you believe they won't do, have you drawn that conclusion? What more would they have to do to convince you?

[Matt ex SEGA]

This year has been pretty quiet, if I'm honest. I am 100% certain this is due to my brilliant moderation.

I was thinking it must be that to be honest. You truly are the Robocop of moderators.

[Dan Madeley]

Hiya Matt, it's good to see you posting about - I have to admit that from what I've seen you guys have been giving good coverage to the forums since the launch of the demo, and that's some good reassurance as a Football Manager fan.

I think SFraser's conclusion is a result of the following read from the patching plans link in the first post:

"This year, we were planning on two updates. One in December to fix any issues, and one in February/March to update the transfers.

But with the situation much changed at Liverpool since the game mastered, we’ve decided to do a patch on the day of release.

This patch will ensure that Liverpool now have the correct owners.

It will also provide an extra “skin” for the game, a dark version of the main skin.

There will also be some added extras for those people who install their game through Steam, but I’ll be dealing with that in a blog in the next couple of weeks."

I think SFraser is concerned that the decision to do a patch on the day of release doesn't actually mention that quick fixes to any bugs etc will be made and it only mentions that Liverpool will have the correct owners.

I will presume that any quick fixes that can me made in time for the release patch since receiving our feedback for the demo will be , but I can also understand from the reading that SFraser has come to the opinion that the first change to the game itself other than the Liverpool ownership will be in Decemeber.

I might be completely off, but that seems like the most logical explanation to SFraser's post to me.

[MerseyReds]

Great work by the SI team. You have set the becnhmark once again. One thing I would like to add is in relation to the Liverpool ownership issue. I assume your researches for Liverpool will have given you indepth information on NESV (our new owners). I say this because you still hear comments on ssn or by so called "respectable people" in football making comments about Joh Henry not being a billionaire. If only they had done their research before making such silly comments, they would realise John Henry is just the face of NESV. A further 16/17 other investers make up the NESV team, some of them billionaires themselves. I would hope this is taken into consideration when deciding how much money is available to spend on players when managing Liverpool. Of course I am not expecting a massive transfer budget like Man City but definitely alot more substantial than what we've been previously accustomed too.

It's also important to know that with all acquisition debt being paid off in full by NESV, we are now in a strong financial position. Instead of paying £25m-£30m a year on interest each year like we had been doing under Hick's & Gillett, that has now been massively reduced to only £2m-£3m year. Add the £25m-£30m (we would normally pay on interest) to a reasonable transfer budget of (say) £20m per season plus player sales then that would obviously enable us to compete for almost any player we wanted. Our debt is now only 37m (this is normal as every business will have debt which is used for working capitall) which is one of the lowest in the premier league. Teams such as Chelsea, utd and Man city are still paying hefty interest fees.

[BamBamBam]

I never get this game on release now because of the patches required to fix the game.

Can't get into a long term game knowing that so many bugs are running.

Probably wait till xmas as well.

[Matt ex SEGA]

Hiya Matt, it's good to see you posting about - I have to admit that from what I've seen you guys have been giving good coverage to the forums since the launch of the demo, and that's some good reassurance as a Football Manager fan.

I think SFraser's conclusion is a result of the following read from the patching plans link in the first post:

"This year, we were planning on two updates. One in December to fix any issues, and one in February/March to update the transfers.

But with the situation much changed at Liverpool since the game mastered, we’ve decided to do a patch on the day of release.

This patch will ensure that Liverpool now have the correct owners.

It will also provide an extra “skin” for the game, a dark version of the main skin.

There will also be some added extras for those people who install their game through Steam, but I’ll be dealing with that in a blog in the next couple of weeks."

I think SFraser is concerned that the decision to do a patch on the day of release doesn't actually mention that quick fixes to any bugs etc will be made and it only mentions that Liverpool will have the correct owners.

I will presume that any quick fixes that can me made in time for the release patch since receiving our feedback for the demo will be , but I can also understand from the reading that SFraser has come to the opinion that the first change to the game itself other than the Liverpool ownership will be in Decemeber.

I might be completely off, but that seems like the most logical explanation to SFraser's post to me.

Yep, fair point. I can definitely see that it wasn't highlighted. I'll have a dig into what the plans are for it on Monday although normally SI won't confirm a full change list until launch. They're already working on adding the new skin (as a result of numerous requests here, I believe) and fixing the ownership issue so it wouldn't be a massive shock to see a few other bits sneaking in. I can't promise anything else though - it's not up to me.

[Steve Cox]

To all those a bit worried.

Don't be.

We are always listening/watching and planning on making FM 2011 the best it can be with every patch. We do that for release too.

Liverpool gives us a reason to release a day one patch, and with it we can look at any issues the demo brings up.

December patch gives us a chance to react to anything else that comes up post release.

Feb/March patch gives us a chance to get the new database ready and also tidy up anything found in the meantime.

To suggest that we'd only work on Liverpool for day of release... Well apart from making my life easier there's no real benefit to that.

We dearly want you to love our work. So we'll put in the long hours to get it ready for you.

[roykela]

To all those a bit worried.

Don't be.

We are always listening/watching and planning on making FM 2011 the best it can be with every patch. We do that for release too.

Liverpool gives us a reason to release a day one patch, and with it we can look at any issues the demo brings up.

December patch gives us a chance to react to anything else that comes up post release.

Feb/March patch gives us a chance to get the new database ready and also tidy up anything found in the meantime.

To suggest that we'd only work on Liverpool for day of release... Well apart from making my life easier there's no real benefit to that.

We dearly want you to love our work. So we'll put in the long hours to get it ready for you.

No problem loving your work. Definitely the best thing on the market, in my opinion.

The bolded part. What if something serious comes up in between, and you guys know the solution, able to fix it and also able to fix the following knock-on effects the changes you experience.

Would you still wait until December to release a fix to a serious issue?

[Fabio MVP]

No, problem loving your work. Definitely the best thing on the market, in my opinion.

The bolded part. What if something serious comes up in between, and you guys know the solution, able to fix it and also able to fix the following knock-on effects the changes you experience.

Would you still wait until December to release a fix to a serious issue?

If it's something major, I'm sure SI would release hotfix, if not major or gamebreaking it would wait for December.

[roykela]

If it's something major, I'm sure SI would release hotfix, if not major or gamebreaking it would wait for December.

I was kind of thinking, if they have the line of thought like "now we've fixed that, let's fix the other stuff while we're at it and wait until the scheduled release to get everything done".

If you know what i mean

I might very well forgetting some stuff here, as i am getting a bit old now , but the only time i remember that they did something like that was for FM10 with the crash issues.

[Miles Jacobson]

Roykela - we've always tried to react quickly in the past, so I see no reason why we wouldn't do this year if something is serious. We had a couple of cases last year where people couldn't get the game up and running due to PC configuration issues, and got them up and running with specific hot fixes for them.

If we didn't schedule patches, then they'd be a lot harder to do, or we'd have to drop planned features from FM12 due to people being taken off FM11 to work on patches. So we're damned if we announce a schedule, and damned if we don't.

I can also confirm that we are constantly monitoring feedback on the demo, and feedback from other testing on the final build, and there will be other issues sorted for the first patch, as we were already working on it. But the Liverpool situation was the trigger for us deciding to do one day one, particularly because of the feedback that we've been getting from Liverpool fans.

[Wiitastic]

ok I have registered on that site to give myself a chance to appear in the game

[Wiitastic]

Oh – and there are some nice little Football Manager 2011 nuggets in there too of things you might not have found yet in the demo

what or where are these little nuggest ?

[roykela]

You do react quickly, that is very true. And i really do appreciate it, as do most of us, if not all.

Having a plan and a schedule is very necessary in order to make things work and happen, in an organised and proper way.

Sometimes, though, i can't help but get the feeling that some things should/could be resolved a bit faster.

That would look good in everybodys eyes.

Your point about dropping planned features from FM12 because of said reasons, is exactly why i mentioned before that it seems like you're victims of your own success.

Which is sort of a good thing, but can also come back in a negative way, unnecessarily often.

The game is huge and complicated. Most of us realise that. Things aren't fixed overnight.

That tells me that, like i mentioned last year i believe, it seems like you've bit off more than you can chew.

Damned if you and damned if you don't. Yup. That's how it is these days. Experience that every day in my line of work. So i decided to change the approach.

It worked. Everybody's been more happy ever since. Both customers and colleagues.

My point in mentioning that: It is possible to do something about it. Even though it's nearly impossible, it's still doable.

My god, that turned out to be more of a moral speech

That was not my intention. Anyways.....i doubt things will change in the near future. Game is great. You guys are doing a fabulous job. I just don't like the thought of, we know there are broken stuff, and that there will be more broken stuff.

When something is changed, to fix stuff, we don't know what effects it'll have until it's done. In my eyes that would call for more manpower, and more released fixes. (We = you guys)

Like i said. I know it isn't easy. I'm not really blaming you for anything, so my apologies if it comes through that way. I just want to let you know about the stuff i don't like.

For everything i don't like, i can guarantee that there are at least 5 things i do like

[Frame]

Will the Central American Cup be added to the game in the patch?

[Miles Jacobson]

Roykela - we've made massive changes to the development processes at SI over the last 2 years, as have been well detailed in blogs and podcasts over the last few years and that has lead to FM11 being far and away the most polished release we've ever had.

Are we perfect? No, we're not. Do we constantly try our best to reach perfection? Yes. Do we try and offer the best service to our customers in the industry? Yes, we do. Do we react as quickly as humanly possible to issues when people bring them up? Yes, we do. Do we try and learn from our mistakes? Very much so.

[roykela]

Roykela - we've made massive changes to the development processes at SI over the last 2 years, as have been well detailed in blogs and podcasts over the last few years and that has lead to FM11 being far and away the most polished release we've ever had.

Are we perfect? No, we're not. Do we constantly try our best to reach perfection? Yes. Do we try and offer the best service to our customers in the industry? Yes, we do. Do we react as quickly as humanly possible to issues when people bring them up? Yes, we do. Do we try and learn from our mistakes? Very much so.

All that i do know, and realize. Not taking that away from you. You deserve all the credit in the world for all that.

Then again. For me, all that is the basic minimum of standards.

I know how hard it is dealing with customers. You can't make everybody happy. It's impossible. And, like you say, nobody's perfect.

It's very hard to keep a good balance in the amount of service, and to keep up the same high level of work. Especially with you guys, when you're sort of in between everything. Sega - Customers.

But it seems like you've got my point, and i certainly know what you're saying.

You pretty much have to come out to say it over and over again, every year.

This time it seems like it was my turn to come with this

I'll leave it at that, for now. Keep up the good work, guys.

Looking forward for the game release now

[Rhazmuz]

Im glad your going for release day patch, always nice to have as bug free a game as you can when you start it up.

Also it seems quite evident to me that you guys put in ALOT of time, even after normal work hours, in this period up to launch, and having to do a patch for the 5th doesnt help out here. So just know its appreciated, even if we as communiaty dont always act like it

[roykela]

Im glad your going for release day patch, always nice to have as bug free a game as you can when you start it up.

Also it seems quite evident to me that you guys put in ALOT of time, even after normal work hours, in this period up to launch, and having to do a patch for the 5th doesnt help out here. So just know its appreciated, even if we as communiaty dont always act like it

Agreed

------------

[Mansleg]

I love how people just have stupid outbursts criticising the makers of the game. I mean it's OK to have constructive feedback about the game and your opinions will be read and either agreed with or not. But to come on the forum and have an emotional rant or an irrational moan is just pointless. If you're really that bothered don't buy the game and go do something else with your life!

I think the decision to release a patch on day 1 is fantastic and shows a game series that has a passionate team behind it

[englandmanager]

i swear people that don't know what a bug is just jump to the conclusion that it has bugs! (especially people suggesting data attributes are bugs)

SI have never let me down with patching issues, and i'm 100% sure this will continue

[cynet]

Every pc game ever released get's 2 or 3 patch's each year, im not suprised by this, happens every year, can't understand the moaning with regard's to it.

Played the fm11 demo and is way much better than fm10, but wont be buying as fml is my preference right now, but will give fml the chance after 1.7 if it fails, then back to the retail version that being fm12.

[MrPompey]

i've pre-ordered from steam and been given a very nice mega -drive arcade collection

altered beast!!!

I think you'll find you effectively paid heftily for the mega drive games based on the price difference between steam and say amazon

[englandmanager]

I think you'll find you effectively paid heftily for the mega drive games based on the price difference between steam and say amazon

i hate amazon, my 2 previous pre-orders were incredibly messed up

pre-ordered bioshock 2 got it 5 days after release

pre-ordered fifa 10 never recieved it and after 2 weeks of complaints finally got my money back

i'd rather pay a little extra to actually recieve my games thanks

[kennhyl]

When you say "There will also be some added extras for those people who install their game through Steam" you mean install not necessary buy via steam ? Last year i buy a box and install the game via steam, will do the same this year, so I will be able to have these extras ?

how do you activate the boxed game through steam?