England - The Road to 2012 (now featuring Wayne Rooney) but not his touch

[Sheps.]

If anything, Parker-Carrick should be England's starting midfield in a 4-4-2.

Personally, I'm not sure if Gerrard is even ahead of Lampard on merit this season.

When has the England squad ever been picked on merit though?

[CaptainPlanet]

Kelly is actually good.

I can understand Downing/Gerrard/Carroll hate. But Kelly is proper bo.

[Andrew_]

Rio Ferdinand ‏@rioferdy5

What reasons?????!!!

Rio

[jamez91]

Hodgson has messed up big time, Micah Richards is there waiting in the wings contributed a hell of a lot to a title winning side and he picks an untried at international level player from a club which has hugely underperformed.

Richards agility would be paramount when facing fast teams in the Euros aswell.

[englandmanager]

doesn't matter much

can't see us progressing out of the group

ukraine at home will be dangerous as will france

[Rob1981]

So so weak.

Revised England squad:

Goalkeepers: Joe Hart (Manchester City), Robert Green (West Ham), Jack Butland (Birmingham City).

Defenders: Leighton Baines (Everton), Martin Kelly (Liverpool), Ashley Cole (Chelsea), Glen Johnson (Liverpool), Phil Jones (Manchester United), Joleon Lescott (Manchester City), John Terry (Chelsea), Phil Jagielka (Everton).

Midfielders: Stewart Downing (Liverpool), Steven Gerrard (Liverpool), Jordan Henderson (Liverpool), James Milner (Manchester City), Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain (Arsenal), Scott Parker (Tottenham), Theo Walcott (Arsenal), Ashley Young (Manchester United).

Forwards: Andy Carroll (Liverpool), Jermain Defoe (Tottenham), Wayne Rooney (Manchester United), Danny Welbeck (Manchester United).

[jamez91]

We never beat Sweden, Ukraine will be tough. We must get a point out of France to get us out of the starting block and to also reduce Frances maximum points.

[Leppard]

Does the team which comes second in England's group play the team which comes first in Spain's group?

[Rob1981]

Yeah .

1C v 2D, 1D v 2C in the QFs

[Select_screen_name:]

Haha. You all deserve everything you get.

[CaptainPlanet]

This thread is more depressing than the singles thread.

[jamez91]

I believe but only if we suffer no injuries and our best team is picked for every game which involves chamberlain and welbeck and steering clear of carroll and downing.

[tomtuck01]

So, what are these footballing reaons that Rio Ferdinand still hasn't been called up to the squad?

Would be willing to bet my bank balance that he would have been called up if John Terry had been ruled out and not Gary Cahill.

[ddidiodion]

It's seems obvious to me that the "footballing reasons" where he and Terry couldn't be in the same squad and Terry got the nod because of his better fitness record, I guess that reason still stands.

[GG17]

Didn't Roy cite something like "He hasn't played for England much since the world cup" as a reason? In fairness Roy is right, he's not been around for the qualifiers much so why should he get into the squad now?

Whatever the reason... you've not been picked... Be pissed off yes...but be mature about it.

[Rob1981]

Didn't Roy cite something like "He hasn't played for England much since the world cup" as a reason? In fairness Roy is right, he's not been around for the qualifiers much so why should he get into the squad now?

Yeah, because Martin Kelly was our standout performer in qualifying.

[Chris Ritchie]

If Roy Hodgson wants to apologise to Liverpool Football Club he should just do so and stop using the England squad to cosy back up to them.

[tigerhgrrrrrr]

It's seems obvious to me that the "footballing reasons" where he and Terry couldn't be in the same squad and Terry got the nod because of his better fitness record, I guess that reason still stands.

I think that is probably about right. We should remember 2012 is being in effect written off as a platform for 2014 - nothing more, so the old guard need to be swept aside. I think Gerrard is looking error prone, Lampard & Terry are/were on borrowed time. I feel sorry for Cahill & Walker, and to a slightly lesser extent Richards. I hope Rio distances himself from the comments made on his behalf or he may just end up looking a bit of a clown, even if he is technically one of the best 8 central defenders still left standing - and a player who's own club manager says he cannot play 2 games in a week!

[jmr]

It's seems obvious to me that the "footballing reasons" where he and Terry couldn't be in the same squad and Terry got the nod because of his better fitness record, I guess that reason still stands.

This doesn't make sense because Rio is asking on Twitter why he still isn't picked whilst Kelly is. That makes it obvious that he doesn't have enough of a problem with Terry to not want to play for England in this tournament, he's not saying "Why is Terry there and not me", he's saying "Why aren't I being picked?". So the reason he isn't getting picked is because Roy thinks it will be a problem (whereas Rio obviously doesn't) or Roy genuinely believes he's not good enough (Ludacris). A complete shambles that has been handled horribly by the FA and Hodgson.

[tigerhgrrrrrr]

If Roy Hodgson wants to apologise to Liverpool Football Club he should just do so and stop using the England squad to cosy back up to them.

The apology is owed from LFC to Hodgson, not the other way round!

[GG17]

Yeah, because Martin Kelly was our standout performer in qualifying.

He's a little bit more likely to feature in the future though isn't he? That's clearly the reason he and Butland have been called up. Jagielka, Lescott, Jones are all ahead of him and unless they get injured he's unlikely to feature...and if they do then by that point you'd all have given up anyway and be talking about concentrating on the future.

[Chris Ritchie]

and a player who's own club manager says he cannot play 2 games in a week!

He played United's last 12 games of the season, and 18 of the last 20.

[Chris Ritchie]

The apology is owed from LFC to Hodgson, not the other way round!

Which makes his decisions all the more baffling.

[brett.spurs]

Didn't Roy cite something like "He hasn't played for England much since the world cup" as a reason? In fairness Roy is right, he's not been around for the qualifiers much so why should he get into the squad now?

Whatever the reason... you've not been picked... Be pissed off yes...but be mature about it.

Gerrard's there though.

[Leppard]

I think that is probably about right. We should remember 2012 is being in effect written off as a platform for 2014 - nothing more, so the old guard need to be swept aside. I think Gerrard is looking error prone, Lampard & Terry are/were on borrowed time. I feel sorry for Cahill & Walker, and to a slightly lesser extent Richards. I hope Rio distances himself from the comments made on his behalf or he may just end up looking a bit of a clown, even if he is technically one of the best 8 central defenders still left standing - and a player who's own club manager says he cannot play 2 games in a week!

I don't think you should take Fergie's word for it. He'd say Rio can't play one game a week if it meant that Rio wouldn't go to the Euros.

[Icelander83]

I think that is probably about right. We should remember 2012 is being in effect written off as a platform for 2014 - nothing more, so the old guard need to be swept aside. I think Gerrard is looking error prone, Lampard & Terry are/were on borrowed time. I feel sorry for Cahill & Walker, and to a slightly lesser extent Richards. I hope Rio distances himself from the comments made on his behalf or he may just end up looking a bit of a clown, even if he is technically one of the best 8 central defenders still left standing - and a player who's own club manager says he cannot play 2 games in a week!

Rio played 4 games in 13 days in April (source: twitter ) and as has been pointed out, 18 of our last 20 games. I am sure Roy has talked to Sir Alex and the comments about Rio not being physically up for it were deliberate nonsense, just like Roy saying he left Rio out for 'footballing reasons' Never mind the fact that Rio was by far the best English defender over the last 3 months of the season, eh?

[tigerhgrrrrrr]

Which makes his decisions all the more baffling.

Yeah Kelly is an odd choice but I suspect at this late stage there are only a small number of players in a condition fit for the competition (I imagine 5 or 6 players were told to keep in training to International standard just in case). If I am wrong I would have thought re-designate Jones as DC (surely primaily right back at present?) and call up Richards - but as he hasnt played 1st team full matches for some time his exclusion is probably a good call.

[Icelander83]

Yeah Kelly is an odd choice but I suspect at this late stage there are only a small number of players in a condition fit for the competition (I imagine 5 or 6 players were told to keep in training to International standard just in case). If I am wrong I would have thought re-designate Jones as DC (surely primaily right back at present?) and call up Richards - but as he hasnt played 1st team full matches for some time his exclusion is probably a good call.

Should pretty much fire Roy on the spot if he thinks Jones at cb is a good idea at an international tournament

[tigerhgrrrrrr]

I don't think you should take Fergie's word for it. He'd say Rio can't play one game a week if it meant that Rio wouldn't go to the Euros.

Yeah I think it gave the establishment a good excuse for excluding him to prevent Terry/Rio "issues"

[tigerhgrrrrrr]

Rio played 4 games in 13 days in April (source: twitter ) and as has been pointed out, 18 of our last 20 games. I am sure Roy has talked to Sir Alex and the comments about Rio not being physically up for it were deliberate nonsense, just like Roy saying he left Rio out for 'footballing reasons' Never mind the fact that Rio was by far the best English defender over the last 3 months of the season, eh?

Really? Thats an interesting opinion. Lescott better in my opinion but there may be some club loyalty issues bubbling up here (from us both)

[Icelander83]

Okay, I'll lose the 'by far' as I completely forgot Lescott :o still the best English defender and they should be the first choice pairing

[McMaster#28]

Lets pretend we will go out at the group stage. Would Roy's job be in danger already after that?

I'm sure The Sun would want him out for example.

[tigerhgrrrrrr]

Should pretty much fire Roy on the spot if he thinks Jones at cb is a good idea at an international tournament

LOL yeah I think he's rubbish too but the hype about him dictates that he has to be involved.

[Icelander83]

LOL yeah I think he's rubbish too but the hype about him dictates that he has to be involved.

Well that's far from what I said and far, far from the truth. He's good at right back, he's certainly useful for a certain job in midfield but at the moment he's far too inexperienced and impulsive to play at cb in such matches

[tigerhgrrrrrr]

Okay, I'll lose the 'by far' as I completely forgot Lescott :o still the best English defender and they should be the first choice pairing

Lescott & Ferdinand doesnt look like a bad call actually! Terry has hardly been faultless this season. Shame about Cahill, Im not convinced by him but it was his time to be called.

[tigerhgrrrrrr]

Well that's far from what I said and far, far from the truth. He's good at right back, he's certainly useful for a certain job in midfield but at the moment he's far too inexperienced and impulsive to play at cb in such matches

I know, it was a Troll-ette, couldnt resist. I think Jones is vastly overrated tho but especially with the Cahill out, Terry/ Rio either-or situation it was time to give Jones some kind of chance. His versatility may prove to be his strength in the end.

[Leppard]

Really? Thats an interesting opinion. Lescott better in my opinion but there may be some club loyalty issues bubbling up here (from us both)

Okay, I'll lose the 'by far' as I completely forgot Lescott :o still the best English defender and they should be the first choice pairing

Jags and Lescott should be the CBs

[SOStriker]

I wonder how many more English defenders need to be injured before Micah gets a call up.

[Nikos]

Yeah Kelly is an odd choice but I suspect at this late stage there are only a small number of players in a condition fit for the competition (I imagine 5 or 6 players were told to keep in training to International standard just in case). If I am wrong I would have thought re-designate Jones as DC (surely primaily right back at present?) and call up Richards - but as he hasnt played 1st team full matches for some time his exclusion is probably a good call.

Apparently Rio's been training every day at home. The Guardian speculate on whether him being there would be a divisive element for the rest of the squad as most of them like Rio far more than Terry.

This could all have been avoided by not picking Terry in the first place, although it would be fun if Terry's hamstring injury prevented him taking part and Rio replaced him.

[William Hall]

I reckon the best potential lineup versus France would be

Hart

Jones Terry Lescott Cole

Parker Milner

Oxlade-Chamberlain Gerrard Young

Welbeck

That is really only nominally a 4-2-3-1 in reality it is

Hart

Jones Terry Lescott Cole

Oxlade-Chamberlain Parker Gerrard Milner Young

Welbeck

[roseboy64]

I think there is one person but I can't remember who. I'm sure the standby list was 5 people, and Butland, Jagielka, Henderson and now Kelly have all been promoted to the 23.

EDIT: Adam Johnson and Daniel Sturridge still on standby. The standby list was 5 people, but Kelly wasn't even one of them

Thing is Sturridge wasn't even training with the squad. He was here for vacation after the squad was named.

[Leppard]

Would Terry be fit for the opening game or would be one of those where he might not be fit for the France game but should be for the rest? Based on what we've seen, I'd say this is how England would line-up:

--------------Hart--------------

Johnson--Jags---Lescott----Cole

--------Parker---Gerrard--------

Milner------Young-------Downing

-----------Welbeck-------------

Replace Jags with Terry if Terry is fit.

[Razzler]

I don't think you should take Fergie's word for it. He'd say Rio can't play one game a week if it meant that Rio wouldn't go to the Euros.

Fergie was bigging Rio up for the Euros and then said (I believe, in private) that he couldn't play games 4 days apart. Thanks for that, I am sure everyone kind of has a feeling about that. The fact Rio hasn't been injured is great but it does make you think one is due. Harsh but whatever Hodgson's reasons John Terry will likely feature for England in the World Cup campaign and I doubt Rio will. He's not dropping Terry for this tournament and then bringing him back for the next campaign when Rio is injured or steps down from England duty.

Typically he's decided to go on Twitter, like all grown ups do these days. I think I'd stop short of refering to it as a 'disgrace' that is being punted around this morning. We have had plenty of tournaments of Terry/Rio and if they really can't co-exist then Terry has the longer life with England.

If he took Rio would he be happy to be back up to Lescott? You can imagine the outcry if he called up Rio and he limps off after 20 minutes. United fans would be the first with their toys out the pram and all media outlets woud be going on about how risky it was.

[Razzler]

Rio played 4 games in 13 days in April (source: twitter ) and as has been pointed out, 18 of our last 20 games. I am sure Roy has talked to Sir Alex and the comments about Rio not being physically up for it were deliberate nonsense, just like Roy saying he left Rio out for 'footballing reasons' Never mind the fact that Rio was by far the best English defender over the last 3 months of the season, eh?

18 of the last 20 and you weren't hitting it hard in Europe like normal. If Rio went and pulled up with a back strain in a game and was out until October you'd all be going mental 'why can't he have a rest, etc etc'. Of course Rio makes more sense than Kelly but once he's left Rio out inititally I just don't see him bringing him back in

[Leppard]

Fergie was bigging Rio up for the Euros and then said (I believe, in private) that he couldn't play games 4 days apart. Thanks for that, I am sure everyone kind of has a feeling about that. The fact Rio hasn't been injured is great but it does make you think one is due. Harsh but whatever Hodgson's reasons John Terry will likely feature for England in the World Cup campaign and I doubt Rio will. He's not dropping Terry for this tournament and then bringing him back for the next campaign when Rio is injured or steps down from England duty.

He was bigging Rio up for the Euros because he wanted to keep Rio's form up. That's how I saw it anyway.

[aggressive minor]

Regardless of whether Woy is the right choice or not... I just can't believe we've given him a four year contract! Why not 2 years like everyone else? Or even just a temporary role over the Euro's to see how it goes.

Anyway, can't believe Rio/Micah getting over looked and Kelly in ahead of them. Very baffling choice.

And Razzler is such an ABU, always against the United lot

[skybluedave]

I've already tired of the 'so and so should be there' talk. Carrick has been done to death. He ain't there, lets just except it and let it go. Rio's getting another turn now.

Can we just focus on the squad we have and once we get knocked out in the group stage then we can decide who should of gone or not.

[Razzler]

He was bigging Rio up for the Euros because he wanted to keep Rio's form up. That's how I saw it anyway.

He probably was blowing smoke up his arse but Rio's not some teenager that needs a confidence boost in the same way I am sure saying he can't play every 4 days won't tear him down

[Razzler]

And Razzler is such an ABU, always against the United lot

They moan the loudest, someone has to balance it out.

Personally, I'd have Rio in the squad with Terry but it's obvious that won't happen. I stated my reasons why I can certainly understand if it's one or the other than it has to be Terry. Terry has an England career beyond this tournament and I am not sure Rio will be at the next World Cup. "Terry is a racist OMG" but he's not been found guilty of anything yet apart from being not a very nice person so that is no reason for him to not be picked.

I'd have Richards too but if he's having a hissy fit about stand by (not sure if he is) then he can feck off along with Carrick, Paul Robinson and Ben Foster

[aggressive minor]

I've already tired of the 'so and so should be there' talk. Carrick has been done to death. He ain't there, lets just except it and let it go. Rio's getting another turn now.

Can we just focus on the squad we have and once we get knocked out in the group stage then we can decide who should of gone or not.

]

Well that's hardly going to happen is it!? It's a football forum and many people disagree with the choices...what do you expect!?