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England - The Road to 2012 (now featuring Wayne Rooney) but not his touch


jmr

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Fixtures

Friday 3 Sep 2010 Bulgaria (h)

Tuesday 7 Sep 2010 Switzerland (a)

Tuesday 12 Oct 2010 Montenegro (h)

Saturday 26 March 2011 Wales (a)

Saturday 4 June 2011 Switzerland (h)

Friday 2 Sep 2011 Bulgaria (a)

Tuesday 6 Sep 2011 Wales (h)

Friday 7 Oct 2011 Montenegro (a)

3 games on a Friday is pretty strange, looking forward to the Wales games.

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I think the Friday games are brought in for this campaign. The reason is to allow the players more rest/time to fly back before their club games on the weekend so midweek games were moved to Tuesday. Because of that the weekend games were put on Friday so countries would not be playing on a Saturday and Tuesday.

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Not much time for Capello to have a look at other players in August and make some important decisions about the future. Could be a very different squad come September 3rd :thup:

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you missed '.......but hopefully featuring Bobby Zamora' from the title ;).

Will certainly be interesting to see what happens in the next few games and who continues and which fresh faces we see. Also can't wait to see the reaction at Wembley next month, thats assuming many will actually bother to turn up

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Why won't England play any game on August 10th/11th (which is a FIFA date, Brazil, Spain and Argentina will play, for example)?

Is it to appease the clubs?

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Make sure players have more time with their clubs but totally screw over fans traveling to some of these games as not able to travel on the weekend now. It's great for me as Friday is a weekend for me here :D

U19s lost 1-0 to the Dutch last night, seemed like we played ok, conceded an early goal, didn't watch it, wasn't on here. Need to beat the French on saturday to go through ... might be tricky. Germany not qualified for this, surprised tbh

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Wonder which 'new' faces Capello will call up. Won't have much time to see who are in form though. Reckon Jags and Zamora will get a call-up at least with Rio out and the England forwards refusing to score. Maybe Foster too as James has retired, iirc.

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Yeah, it's difficult. I mean, what do you base it on? Who remembers this time last season when it looked like Darren Bent may get called up based on scoring goals in pre-season. I guess the obvious choice is the get someone like Foster in as James will drop out, King and Carragher will obviously be gone so perhaps Jag, Shawcross/Cahill can get in?

It'll be interesting if he picks Walcott. If he does and it's not really based on any performances since the end of last season and he drops SWP (as he should) then it's like saying "I should have taken Walcott". I hope Adam Johnson gets in, I think he deserved to go to the World Cup tbh

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New thread :thup: If you want to edit the OP and add the friendlies, those confirmed so far are:

Aug 11 - Hungary (H)

Nov 17 - France (H)

Jun 2011 - Thailand (A) exact date TBC

Really looking forward to seeing the next squad, hope there are some proper new faces in there and we don't just get the rhetoric about a fresh start and then the same old squad players like SWP. Feel a bit like I can take it or leave it at the moment. Although I've still booked a trip to Basle for the Switzerland game even though my wife is about to give birth :(

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I'm also looking forward to seeing who will be given a chance. It obviously depends on how often they play for their club, but I wouldn't mind seeing A.Johnson, Gibbs, Wilshere, Smalling, Rodwell and maybe even A.Carroll given a chance at some point in the next two years.

Based on current standards, I reckon there won't be too many changes to begin with other than a change of system.

Looking forward to the games against Wales in particular. Should be a good atmosphere for those :)

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Can definitely see Jagielka, Cahill and Johnson being given chances in the next few games. I think its a bit too early for Rodwell and Wilshere at the moment but may get chances in a couple of years. Also dont think Smalling will be near the squad for a good while based on seeing him a few times as he's look awful every time.

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U19s lost 1-0 to the Dutch last night, seemed like we played ok, conceded an early goal, didn't watch it, wasn't on here. Need to beat the French on saturday to go through ... might be tricky. Germany not qualified for this, surprised tbh

They were diabolical, didn't deserve a win, it was turgid stuff.

Germany were in the same qualifying group as Holland, and it's a strong(ish) Dutch generation but a poor German one. Next year's Germany are last year's Under-17 Champions and they'll be a good shot to win it.

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The U19's are poor imo. The French have a cracking side and I can see us getting mullered, but on a positive side our U17's are really good, and if they can develop well and stick together they will have a shot in the next couple of years.

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The U19's are poor imo. The French have a cracking side and I can see us getting mullered, but on a positive side our U17's are really good, and if they can develop well and stick together they will have a shot in the next couple of years.

I love this. We started with "the seniors are awful, but the under 21s are ok", then decided the under 21s were awful and the under 19s were the future.. Now they've let a few people down, are written off, and we're pinning our hopes on another set of players?

The under 21 side who lost after a long shoot out to the Netherlands several years ago was something like: Carson; Hoyte, S. Taylor, A. Ferdinand, Baines; Milner, Noble, Reo-Coker, Young; Nugent, Lita. Of those, Carson, Hoyte, and Nugent are Championship players at best (maybe Carson could do a job for a lower Premiership side), Lita is a League 1 player at best, Taylor, Ferdinand and Reo-Coker shouldn't be anywhere near the England squad, Noble could still progress to being good enough for the England side, Baines is there or there abouts, Young has been inconsistent at international level and Milner is very close to the first team, if not in it. At the time, all those players were either already playing regularly in the top flight, or in Nugent's case, playing very well in the Championship. That so many of a relatively promising generation have fallen by the wayside completely makes me doubt whether any one generation can provide the "future" people are hoping for. It is far more realistic to expect, for example, two of the under 21s, two of the under 19s, and two of the under 17s, to make the first team, than six of any one generation.

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Wales game will be great, they'd probably fancy beating England currently.

I don't think we'd ever fancy our chances but if we're serious about 2nd spot we probably need to try and take a 2-3 points off you.

I warn you now, we will attempt to 5-3-2 keep ball you into submission. Neither game will be a classic.

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When you look at that group you think it's a group where teams can take points off each other. I can see us dropping a few and not having the plain sailing we had in our last campaign but I can see Wales picking up points off others which hopefully means us slipping up won't be so costly. I can see Bulgaria and the Swiss maybe switching home wins but it's as likely you'll slip up away as well. I think away performances will be important in this group. We saw the Swiss in the World Cup, stubborn but they didn't set the world on fire, really don't see why Wales shouldn't be doing them at your place tbh

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Talking about U21s, it's a rare group of U21s that make it to the senior side in bulk tbh, you can look back at plenty of country's U21 teams and go 'eh, who's that' over the years.

As I keep saying though, we can produce the best players in the world at Youth level but it doesn't mean a thing as their development will be stunted when they reach the age in which they need to be playing regularly as first choice opportunities will be limited.

I don't want to be all knee-jerk regarding foreigners in the league but something needs to be done. No one minds the top, top talent but it's the much or a muchness bunch that make up the some teams in the league that you have to question. Stupidly this is out of the FAs hands as they bent over and showed their arse to the Premier League clubs when it formed (yeah, I am sure they're all about the good of the game).

I am really starting to think the Championship is more important than we think (+ also under the FA's control), maybe we should do something there in terms of developing players and imposing restrictions, maybe split that league in two or make it smaller, they're playing a hell of a lot of games (46) and maybe we should do a north/south thing or just make it smaller so the players play less, maybe try to have less foreigners there and have some leeway when teams are promoted, a 3 year spell to put things right or something (that's a 3 or 4 year contract on a player being able to play out as normal and so on)

I don't know. It seems like everyone in English football knows something has to change but no one is actually doing anything

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I love this. We started with "the seniors are awful, but the under 21s are ok", then decided the under 21s were awful and the under 19s were the future.. Now they've let a few people down, are written off, and we're pinning our hopes on another set of players?

The under 21 side who lost after a long shoot out to the Netherlands several years ago was something like: Carson; Hoyte, S. Taylor, A. Ferdinand, Baines; Milner, Noble, Reo-Coker, Young; Nugent, Lita. Of those, Carson, Hoyte, and Nugent are Championship players at best (maybe Carson could do a job for a lower Premiership side), Lita is a League 1 player at best, Taylor, Ferdinand and Reo-Coker shouldn't be anywhere near the England squad, Noble could still progress to being good enough for the England side, Baines is there or there abouts, Young has been inconsistent at international level and Milner is very close to the first team, if not in it. At the time, all those players were either already playing regularly in the top flight, or in Nugent's case, playing very well in the Championship. That so many of a relatively promising generation have fallen by the wayside completely makes me doubt whether any one generation can provide the "future" people are hoping for. It is far more realistic to expect, for example, two of the under 21s, two of the under 19s, and two of the under 17s, to make the first team, than six of any one generation.

sighs. Firstly I never had any expectations for the under 19's so they aren't letting me down at all. I just dont rate them as a side and dont think they include some of the better talents like for example the U17 do, of course this is my opinion. I agree with your last sentance and think this is more likely But I am not pinning my hopes on one generation I just don't rate the U19's thats all.

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I'd be happy for any of those players from those groups of players to make the full England team but the ones playing for the top 6, when exactly are they gonna play in their first teams? The "if they're good enough they'll make it" line is rubbish. Players develop at different ages, younger players get to a point in development that they need first team, competitive games that matter, not silly friendlies or reserve matches or 5 minutes off the bench in the Carling Cup but a sustained, short run.

These places are blocked by overseas players. Can you imagine if the German league was flooded with overseas players, would the likes of Baddstuber be playing or would they have brought in an older, more expensive and experience replacement or given him a couple of games until he looks a bit shaky and then brought the foreign experienced guy in? Would Muller have got the games he got? We know he's a good players now (although didn't run up my flag pole when I saw him play tbh) but if there was a more expensive and experienced overseas player there he'd have probably played.

Then Muller would be released, join someone else, impress for a couple of seasons, go somewhere a big bigger, impress some more and then 4-6 years later it will be decided he is good enough after all which they would have known if they had patience to begin with.

Thing is, they do have patience and it's us that chances aren't available for younger players unless they are the top, top, top players for their age group. Not everyone is a wonderkid at 17, the fact you're not doesn't mean you're not gonna be a great player, maybe the wonderkid will be burnt out at 22 and the other guy will be hitting his peak about then given time

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What promising players do England have in the U19s? I honestly have no idea unless it's Rodwell, Wilshere etc. but I always thought they played for the U21s.

Nouble! :D He's very raw, but the talent is certainly there.

Clyne, Bostock and Delfouneso are all very well known for their talents, Clyne especially has about 50 games under his belt for Palace already.

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Is he still at United? They had him listed as a PNE player the other day, but I'm sure that was just a loan spell last year?

Edit: Just read he's signed another year long loan at PNE. That'll be why then.

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Would Muller have got the games he got? We know he's a good players now (although didn't run up my flag pole when I saw him play tbh) but if there was a more expensive and experienced overseas player there he'd have probably played.

Then Muller would be released, join someone else, impress for a couple of seasons, go somewhere a big bigger, impress some more and then 4-6 years later it will be decided he is good enough after all which they would have known if they had patience to begin with.

That sounds a lot like Piotr Trochowski to me!

Some of the players you describe- the "not obvious wonderkids but quite good" players- are being capped for Wales because they don't think they'll ever get a chance with England. I mean, Vokes and Church could, in other circumstances, be good bit part players for England, and more pressingly, Collison is a pretty good player and could easily be good enough for the England side.

Think how good Sturridge, or Onuoha, would be if they were playing regularly. Having said that, the likes of Anton Ferdinand and Nigel Reo-Coker were established first team players, but just got shunted down.

I think what would be best, though it's completely impractical, would be if promising kids had the sense to put a minimum number of minutes in their contracts that saw them leave as free agents if not met.

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Well, we don't exactly know how good these U19s could be in the Premier League as they probably won't play there, we don't know how good the U17s will be at that level in the next few years either

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Think how good Sturridge, or Onuoha, would be if they were playing regularly. Having said that, the likes of Anton Ferdinand and Nigel Reo-Coker were established first team players, but just got shunted down.

I think what would be best, though it's completely impractical, would be if promising kids had the sense to put a minimum number of minutes in their contracts that saw them leave as free agents if not met.

Not sure that minutes in the contract thing would fly for an established player let alone a youngster and what if they're not ready? I am not advocating playing people just because they are English but when there are some like Sturridge and Onuoha who do look decent it'd be good if they got a proper amount of games. I don't have a problem with Anton Ferdinand and Reo Coker being dropped, they were given plenty of opportunities and probably not good enough for international level if ok for the Prem it's the players that don't get the games we don't know about.

I have always liked Onuoha, how many games has he played? He may go somewhere like Sunderland or West Ham and get 35 games now but he's at a top club already and not playing, perhaps if there was a little more patience he could be a first teamer already?

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/news/7908700/Matthew-Phillips-books-place-in-the-sem-finals-for-England-Under-19s.html

U19s report, also mentioned in there:

There is talent there to be developed, but if history is anything to go by, the development will be the hardest part. Only Stewart Downing, Jermaine Jenas, Adam Johnson, Dean Ashton and Carlton Cole have represented England having played in this tournament.

Wonder how prolific other nations are at bringing through players from this age group, it's an odd one, a good 18 or 19 year may bypass this and play for U21s imo

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Matty James, Clyne and Delfouneso seem the pick of the U19 bunch to me.

Clyne has 50 odd games for Palace, so he has been getting games. He'll eventually move to the Prem. It seems a good route to a bit like Baines, Lescott, Jagielka etc

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Not sure that minutes in the contract thing would fly for an established player let alone a youngster and what if they're not ready? I am not advocating playing people just because they are English but when there are some like Sturridge and Onuoha who do look decent it'd be good if they got a proper amount of games. I don't have a problem with Anton Ferdinand and Reo Coker being dropped, they were given plenty of opportunities and probably not good enough for international level if ok for the Prem it's the players that don't get the games we don't know about.

I have always liked Onuoha, how many games has he played? He may go somewhere like Sunderland or West Ham and get 35 games now but he's at a top club already and not playing, perhaps if there was a little more patience he could be a first teamer already?

I did say "minutes in a contract" was completely impractical, especially once you factor in injuries and suspensions.

According to Wikipedia, Onuoha has made 94 (72+22) appearances for Manchester City in six years. That's more than I thought tbh. Still, he only played 10 matches last year. I can't believe he's 23 tbh.

I also can't complain that Ferdinand and Reo-Coker have ended up as back ups, but it is a pitfall that other youngsters will have to look for. Both were regulars at West Ham, and it was only after moving to clubs with lofty ambitions that they became back-ups.

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Wonder how prolific other nations are at bringing through players from this age group, it's an odd one, a good 18 or 19 year may bypass this and play for U21s imo

All the other nations in the current Euro U19s are taking it very seriously, we are the only nation to essentially send out a bunch of backups.

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We could actually have Wilshire and Rodwell in this in terms of eligibility. I heard they have been upgraded to the U21s ... not quite sure how that means they can't play in this though :/

I meant though I wonder how many of these U19 age group make it as full internationals for other countries as I always think after U17, perhaps 18 if you're a good 'un you'll find yourself in the U21 squad. Even if this is a full team for Spain or France how many then go on to full international level from here?

Anyway, decent getting to another Youth semi, even if we go out, which is likely, it's good to be getting into the last 4 and finals.

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All the other nations in the current Euro U19s are taking it very seriously, we are the only nation to essentially send out a bunch of backups.

Why is that though? Is it our FA not wanting to upset the Prem clubs by taking important players away from pre season?

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I agree it was good (if not lucky!) to get to the semi final. The main thing was to qualify for the U20 WC (this tournament is the qualifying tournament for that), and that has now been achieved.

I hope a lot of the current French squad get to play for the senior team, a few of the Spainish should as well hopefully.

Austria have Alaba in their squad who has already been capped (3 times I think).

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Why is that though? Is it our FA not wanting to upset the Prem clubs by taking important players away from pre season?

I guess so, I can't believe that if clubs were okay for it the FA would think that the tournament isn't good enough for them.

Spain have Iker Muniain in their squad, who at age 17 played 30+ times for Atheltic last season. I can't imagine that if he was English he would be in the England squad.

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Why do I do it to myself? I'm actually really excited about this campaign, it'll be fascinating and I'm really looking forward to it. Just why? Why? :D

Anyway, the Friday games sound fantastic - both in the sense that it's a good thing as players will be allowed more recovery time before joining up with their clubs, but watching a game at the pub or wherever on a Friday night will make it feel like a Saturday and will as a result drag the weekend out a bit \o/ Well, providing there are no 1600 kick-offs or anything anyway.

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