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England - The Road to 2012 (now featuring Wayne Rooney) but not his touch

jmr

By jmr,
in Euro 2012 Forum

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Razzler

Razzler

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No, everyone likes to be told they're good but I am sure if he's playing well then Rio is aware of it regardless of what anyone else is saying and if he's playing badly he'll know someone bigging him up is one thing but he'll be well aware he's out of form too

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dudester

dudester

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People saying about moving Gerrard up from cm when Hodge was managing liverpool he tended to play Gerrard in the centre of midfield in a deeper role was only the rare occasion he was moved up behind the striker.

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aggressive minor

aggressive minor

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No, everyone likes to be told they're good but I am sure if he's playing well then Rio is aware of it regardless of what anyone else is saying and if he's playing badly he'll know someone bigging him up is one thing but he'll be well aware he's out of form too

Obviously, but don't try and make out like it doesn't matter what comes from his manager, especially given who his manager is.

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aggressive minor

aggressive minor

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Rio was fantastic last season and has had his doubters, doesn't matter how much he has achieved and what a fantastic player he has been he has had poor spells on the pitch in recent years and a lot of it stems from him losing his pace. So hearing that his legend of a manager is pleased with him and still thinks he has got it despite the doubters, it doesn't matter all of a sudden as he is not a teenager?

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Razzler

Razzler

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Rio was fantastic last season and has had his doubters, doesn't matter how much he has achieved and what a fantastic player he has been he has had poor spells on the pitch in recent years and a lot of it stems from him losing his pace. So hearing that his legend of a manager is pleased with him and still thinks he has got it despite the doubters, it doesn't matter all of a sudden as he is not a teenager?

I am not sure how many times I can repeat 'everyone likes to hear nice things / be told they are doing well' really

My point was in response to Fergie bigging him up and then latterly saying he didn't think he could handle the strain. I don't think it's some clever ploy from Fergie to keep Rio's confidence up and then when the season is over to basically tear it down cause he actually doesn't want him to go to the Euros.

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Razzler

Razzler

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Shouldn't Rooney be getting a bit more blame for people worrying about our chances?

I'm sure if he wasn't suspended for the first two games there would be a lot less negativity, and a lot more hope that we should at least get through the group stages with ease.

Rooney has had plenty of blame when the ban went down

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drizzlynewt

drizzlynewt

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I don't understand where the confusion over the possible footballing reasons for calling up Kelly ahead of Ferdinand comes from.

Initially you had Gareth Barry to play as a defensively minded midfielder and Phil Jones to be cover at right back or center back. When Barry gets injured - and bearing in mind the doubts over Scott Parker's fitness - Jones' role becomes to cover the defensive midfield position as well. Jagielka is called up to take his place covering center back. I dare say Carrick would have probably been called up as a straight replacement if he hadn't specifically asked not to be considered. The swap of Barry for Jagielka - which was probably a bit of a silly one, if we're honest - left a gaping hole in the squad because if, as seems not together unlikely, Parker does pick up an injury and Jones becomes first choice defensive midfielder than an injury to Johnson would leave absolutely noone to cover right back, a problem that calling up Rio Ferdinand to the squad does not solve but that calling up Martin Kelly does. Again, we're looking at a situation where someone else - in this case Micah Richards - would have probably been called up if it wasn't for the fact that he specifically asked not to be considered.

Of course, that doesn't change the fact that Ferdinand probably has been snubbed due to the whole issue between he and Terry, but it was at the point when he was left out of the initial squad, then again when Jagielka - another player who could only play center back and isn't as good as him - was called up that it happened, not when a right back was called up to a squad which had previously only included one right back.

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roseboy64

roseboy64

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All that points to is that the squad selection in the first place was wrong. Far too many wingers were included in the first place. Walcott, Chamberlain, Downing, Milner and Young. Not to mention Welbeck has played out wide nearly as much as upfront.

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CaptainPlanet

CaptainPlanet

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Based on the friendlies, Young's gone as a 5th striker (presumably because of Rooney's suspension)

Ox/Downing as Left Wingers - Milner/Walcott as Right Wingers

Downing/Milner as the hardworking, put a shift in, sensible keep possession/help out defensively wingers, and Ox/Walcott as the speedy, flair, create something wingers.

Strikers are basically, main man up front Carroll/Defoe, with in the hole Welbeck/Rooney/Young

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drizzlynewt

drizzlynewt

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Yeah, the role distribution got messed up because of Rooney getting himself suspended. If you can't have two specialists available for every position, having a dude who can cover central defence and full back is probably the best option.

The thing is - and this isn't a defence of Hodgson's abilities because I think he's useless as a manager - between the star player getting himself suspended for kicking a bloke over nothing, players who feel it's their divine right to walk into the first team refusing to play if they aren't guaranteed that spot, injuries and all this business with Ferdinand - who, as someone who's played as a professional footballer for fifteen years and, I'd assume, followed the sport for his entire life, should have been aware of the need for someone to provide cover for right back - kicking up this shitstorm to rev up a media that was ALREADY slaughtering the manager, well, what chance does Hodgson have to do anything? The squad is the way it is because the players have forced his hand through their own childish actions.

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Razzler

Razzler

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This is pathetic now.

Manager picks squad and player publically questions him. Do you think you'll be getting in an England squad after this? If it 'doesn't matter as he's nearing the end of his England career' then what's the big deal you're not called up here as back up.

I am a little surprised Ferdinand is like this tbh with his freaking Twitter

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Sheps.

Sheps.

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I don't really understand how Ferdinands kicked up a 'shitstorm', as far as I know the only tweet Rio has made about the whole situation is 'What reasons?', which is a perfectly legitimate question to ask for a player who's fit, wanting to play, and on the evidence of the past season is still one of, if not the best English defender around. And that tweet apart, I see nothing on his page that suggests anything other than full support for England, for example:

Rio Ferdinand ‏@rioferdy5

Just so we dont get it twisted ere....i'll be in a pub somewhere supporting England this summer! Love the lads!

Maybe I've missed something, or there's been a news story I've not seen, but I'm genuinely a little surprised that a lot of the posters here have blown Rio's one tweet well out of proportion. Of course, none of this matters as the squad has been decided and as much as I disagree with a lot of the choices, we have to hope that Roy's defend, defend, counter! tactic will work.

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Razzler

Razzler

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Ask that perfectly legitimate question in person or on the phone or reach out using Gary Neville to open communications lines, listen to the response and keep it to yourself.

He didn't really need to say anything for starters, it's a clear pointed response to not being called up. He's not an idiot when it comes to Twitter, he knows what he is doing. Leave it alone until after the tournament, eh if you have to go on about it. It is obvious that he feels it's linked to the Terry case too so there's bringing that back up as well going into the tournament.

Also, I think these stories coming out from his agent and 'friends' aren't helpful. An agent saying it's a disgrace or Rio thinks it's a disgrace is stupid, shouldn't put Rio's name on that even if it is tacitly coming from Ferdinand.

No point going on about how I'll be in a pub supporting the lads now, is it. Maybe use Twitter or your agent for something useful like 'I am disappointed ... etc etc' and there is zero benefit in making this a Rio/Anton vs Terry issue going into the tournament

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GG17

GG17

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You seemed to have missed his representatives and close friends coming out and slamming Hodgson. Calling the decision "Morally suspect" and treating Rio with "A lack of respect."

Neither of which really make sense.

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Razzler

Razzler

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Well, this is reported to come from Rio as well. That is what I am saying. It's tacitly from Rio or outright coming from him, which is not remotely helpful and not at all respectful towards the England team or Manager. It is clearly bringing up the whole Terry thing again and once again trying him and finding him guilty before his trial. We just don't need it really.

He can play the innocent misundestanding on Twitter now but he's aware what he is doing. Then adding the 'morally suspect' thing is a cherry on the cake. I saw an interview with Rio not too long back in which is said he runs by the club (United) anything he feels will be controversial. You're not getting an unfiltered peak into Rio's thoughts here so Rio is not someone to just fly off the handle and put his 'feelings' on Twitter without some thought of the repercussions imo. That's how it came across when I saw that anyway.

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Leppard

Leppard

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Dude, Razzler. Use some periods or commas, please! Run-on sentences make it hard to read, man.

I don't see it as him trying to find Terry guilty or whatever. I see it as more like 'what the **** are these 'footballing reasons' and why is the guy who's causing them going in my place?'. And it's not like Terry has been fantabulous this season that he cannot be dropped.

I accept that it wasn't a good decision from Rio to vent his frustrations so publicly.

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Sheps.

Sheps.

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Ah didn't know anything about his agent, however I'd take anything not coming directly from Rio with a pinch of salt as agents are generally right *****.

I don't think he's even trying to make this a Rio v Terry thing either, it seems to me he just wanted to play like any English footballer would want to and is a little disappointed he isn't. It's better for me/other Utd fans that he isn't playing though, if we can get another season like the last one out of him I'll be very happy.

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Razzler

Razzler

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I don't see it as him trying to find Terry guilty or whatever. I see it as more like 'what the **** are these 'footballing reasons' and why is the guy who's causing them going in my place?'. And it's not like Terry has been fantabulous this season that he cannot be dropped.

Rio knows exactly the reaction his Twitter comment would get. Using Hodgson's parlance of 'footballing reasons' and tweeting 'what reasons????' is clear. He's not simply wondering how come Kelly is going and not him with that comment. There are ways to go about finding out that info. The 'morally suspect' comment pretty much confirms the Terry situation is what he considers to be the reason he's left out.

The biggest problem is this:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/england/9311976/Rio-Ferdinand-not-left-out-of-squad-for-footballing-reasons-says-former-England-striker-Robbie-Fowler.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/jun/05/eriksson-ferdinand-england-euro-2012

Fowler saying something, Sven saying thing ... everyone is now going to come out with their view because he's made an issue out of it instead of accepting it

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drizzlynewt

drizzlynewt

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The man's 33 and he's been dealing with the media for a considerable portion of his life. He knows the sort of fuss the press will kick up over him saying stuff on twitter, his agent and friends aren't releasing statements without him giving it the ok. He's manipulating a situation to cause a problem because he's having a tantrum, then he sticks in a bit about how he'll still be supporting them and loves the lads to maintain his nice guy image. I mean, honestly, you think Rio Ferdinand doesn't have PR people who'll have been letting him know exactly what will happen as a result of doing all this? Everyone in football has PR people.

Apart from maybe Roy Hodgson, given how much of a massive tit he makes of himself every time he does an interview.

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Leppard

Leppard

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Where do you want a full stop or comma? The last bit about Rio running stuff by the club? It's not really that hard to read, is it

Yeah, the last part. I had to read through it twice to understand. Dooooooo iiiiit.

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Leppard

Leppard

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Rio knows exactly the reaction his Twitter comment would get. Using Hodgson's parlance of 'footballing reasons' and tweeting 'what reasons????' is clear. He's not simply wondering how come Kelly is going and not him with that comment. There are ways to go about finding out that info. The 'morally suspect' comment pretty much confirms the Terry situation is what he considers to be the reason he's left out.

The biggest problem is this:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/england/9311976/Rio-Ferdinand-not-left-out-of-squad-for-footballing-reasons-says-former-England-striker-Robbie-Fowler.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/jun/05/eriksson-ferdinand-england-euro-2012

Fowler saying something, Sven saying thing ... everyone is now going to come out with their view because he's made an issue out of it instead of accepting it

Yeah, I don't doubt the Terry situation is the reason why he was left out.

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Razzler

Razzler

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The man's 33 and he's been dealing with the media for a considerable portion of his life. He knows the sort of fuss the press will kick up over him saying stuff on twitter, his agent and friends aren't releasing statements without him giving it the ok. He's manipulating a situation to cause a problem because he's having a tantrum, then he sticks in a bit about how he'll still be supporting them and loves the lads to maintain his nice guy image. I mean, honestly, you think Rio Ferdinand doesn't have PR people who'll have been letting him know exactly what will happen as a result of doing all this? Everyone in football has PR people.

Apart from maybe Roy Hodgson, given how much of a massive tit he makes of himself every time he does an interview.

I am pretty sure the agent and friends comments are 'ok'd' by Rio too although you obviously can't know for sure. It happens in the PR world and there's enough for Rio to be able to distance himself, if need be

Now Hodgson's press conference is going to be about Rio and Terry again, ffs. Now I read in the paper today about Lescott not being happy about Terry and these allegations at the time and now they're going to be a centre back pairing. All this rubbish drip drips out and it's all because Rio didn't get picked.

I have been of the thinking for a long time now that after this Euros Rio would step down from England duty as I don't see him at the next World Cup. Not sure if he would but I always suspected so. Will he play in a 2-year campaign leading into the next World Cup?

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foofighter23

foofighter23

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definitely childish by rio. hodgson should just come out and say how he cant believe 'some' players are happy to jeopardise their england careers with the way theyve acted lately and not to be surprised to get overlooked in the future if this is the way they think they can act.

rio, carrick and richards throwing hissy fits because of their prima donna attitudes deserve to be left out. i hope we get to the semi or even final just so it sticks in their throats even more when they look back at how theyve acted.

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Sheps.

Sheps.

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Carrick and Richards hardly have prima donna attitudes fgs :D

They asked to either be involved properly or to be left out. Coming off the back off hugely successful seasons, I can see their point, especially after so long of them both being left out/not used.

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drizzlynewt

drizzlynewt

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Carrick isn't involved because he said he wanted to be in the first team or not play at all. He's not involved in the first team because there are multiple central midfielders in the country who are better than him. Insisting upon being given a role that is beyond your ability because you think you're better than you are then throwing a tantrum when you don't get your own way, as he did when he refused to play... It's pretty much the definition of what being a prima donna is.

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Sheps.

Sheps.

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Carrick isn't involved because he said he wanted to be in the first team or not play at all. He's not involved in the first team because there are multiple central midfielders in the country who are better than him. Insisting upon being given a role that is beyond your ability because you think you're better than you are then throwing a tantrum when you don't get your own way, as he did when he refused to play... It's pretty much the definition of what being a prima donna is.

Please, do list...

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drizzlynewt

drizzlynewt

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You might not think so, but I'm confident you're wrong. I am at the very least certain that Carrick is not in any way so far ahead of the other options that he should be in a position himself to say "I should definitively be first choice or I'm not playing".

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Gizmo7

Gizmo7

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Anyone who 'expects' to start every game can gtfo to be honest. Such a babyish mentality to have. If you're dragged all the way over to the Euro's and play 10 minutes for the whole tournament, so be it. You're bound to regret not playing for your country when looking back.

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drizzlynewt

drizzlynewt

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I'm not going to do a list. If you can't see that there are a bunch of better options than Carrick, me naming them isn't going to make you think "Oh, I hadn't thought of him". Clearly, you will already be aware of whomever I might mention and for whatever reason you've decided Carrick is better than them. Probably backed up by Opta stats.

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foofighter23

foofighter23

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doesnt matter whether they really are better or not than what we've taken its carricks and richards attitudes and disrespect thats cost them most.

richards is overrated round here anyway, will be a liability with his positional sense at international level and ive seen that already when he got a chnce early on for capello and carrick can pass a ball, woopdeedo, thats the least you should expect from a professional footballer on the wages he's on, he's hardly a world beater is he?

ferdinand i'd have taken over terry though without a doubt. i watched him a few times since xmas and even against everton he was exceptional and i felt sorry for him (only a little) having to play with the rest of his defence that day. i think ferguson done his chances in saying what he did so hodgson wouldnt take him and he could keep him fresh for next season, but like i say theres no need for him to come out with childish remarks on twitter and has shown disrespect to england for doing it.

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