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Thread: Football Manager 2012 Announced!

  1. #501
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    Quote Originally Posted by SCIAG View Post
    Saying "sort it out" in a thread isn't much use really, use the report button if you have an issue.

    Remember it's the summer holidays, and saying "gay" to mean "bad" is something kids do a lot. We can't change that (though we'll try), but hopefully their education will.
    Fair comment RE report button, have never done that, forgot it existed, so sorry about that. It does feel that this use of the word Gay is backdoor homophobia, no pun intended, and yes I know "kids" use that word to mean bad - doesnt make it alright though does it? I used the same word for that same purpose 30 years ago- and then a Lesbian friend who's sexuality had not been known to me at that point, pointed out how damaging that trivial treatment of the subject could potentially be. I now look back with regret on those days, hence my concern. The net result of these exchanges is that I will be less likely to visit any thread where such behaviour is so casually overlooked, I guess few will be upset by my abstinance but it is a shame. I like reading about the new game this time of year, just am not keen on homophobia in any shape or form especially when I know it is not likely to be discouraged, let alone punished. Those under the age of 35 or so will probably think Im being a "pussy", I wonder if they will have that same view in 20 years time - I suspect and hope not.

  2. #502
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    Default What I would like to see in FM 2012

    Please fix the 0-21 bug in champions league, that's the most frustrating thing in FM 2011.

    People are making some really bad suggestions for spending your money. Why not allow the manager invest in clubs, players (youngsters for example) AND their own coaching attributes, because it´s really hard to find some 5 star coaches, (coaching courses, language courses and stuff like that).

    Regens should be better distributed by countries like Portugal (i have seen about 2 or 3 good ones; never seen a good WINGER!!!), England, Africa, etc. There aren´t enough attacking fullbacks, wingers (there are a lot of CM´s with winger atributes), number 10's and maybe defensive midfielder´s; on the other hand there are some really fast DM´s with great dribbling skills (not sure why). In my opinion there is a lack of medium skilled regens, they are either really good or crap, a lot of national teams get filled with brazillians because of this.

    There are also way too many teams playing in 3-5-2, 3-4-3 formations.

    Anyway, looking forward for the next chapter in the best computer game series ever.

  3. #503
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    I'm with tiger. I really think it's worth modding.

  4. #504
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scab View Post
    Leave it to your assistant if/when it gets tedious. He'll do fine most of the time (following the same AI logic as your opposition), especially with a decent Motivating skill.
    Leave it to your ass man? Its become the single most important (and tedious) part of the game. Its not something I really want to leave for the ass man to sort out. Its bad enough when I get it wrong and destroy moral, never mind when the AI is to blame.

    Got no consistency? Its your team talks.
    Cant win away from home? Its your team talks.
    On a 12 game winless run? its your team talks.
    You lost a game you should have easily won? You said we can win instead of for the fans.

    Dont waste money on players, and time on tactics anymore. Just learn the secret or read the guide on team talks.

    If they were only cosmetic I would leave to my assman, but being vital to success its too much of a risk.

    I could do with a team talk to motivate me into buying FM this year..
    Last edited by Born2killzone; 28-08-2011 at 23:17.

  5. #505
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    Hm, I can't say I agree that it's that influential, though clearly part of the formula. It's interesting that it's perceived that way by others though, perhaps from lack of (good) feedback from other effects, as opposed to the very clear Get Team Talk Feedback screen.

    Personally I think tactics, mainly in-game tweaks/shouts, still make the biggest difference, as long as the players aren't completely destroyed mentally, and I frequently win games with mixed reactions from talks and press comments.

    What I will say is that the 1-2 word talk descriptions could do with some clarification as they are frequently misinterpreted right now, surely contributing to this motivation frustration.

  6. #506
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    It has become hugely influential. And most of the community has figured it out. When people made problem threads it used to be 'its your tactics' you heard, now its 'its your team talks'.

    Too true too. I went from relegation canditadates every season to champions, just by reading the guide on team talks. Never changed tactics didnt buy players. That was FM 2010.

    FM 2011 I won almost every home game and lost pretty much every away game. They had ramdomly changed the phrase that worked, so the one you picked last year to win, lost you the game this year. Thats how pointless and random they are. 1 patch it builds moral, next patch using the same one destroys moral, till you figure out the pattern again.

    I dont mind figuring out the pattern to what works but when it becomes the sole reason I'm winning or losing games and its not so much the players I put on the pitch it gets stale very fast.

    And to top it off ever since team talks were introduced to FM AI team building and player buying has gone further down the toilet. Even they know its a waste of time and all that matters are the team talks.

    Mixed reactions arent bad. A mixed reaction can be a good reaction as its a reaction.

    Moral is what wins you games. But I find it rediculous that team moral is built on pre and post match team talks and nothing much else.

    Moral maybe needs toning down and the effects of team talks on team moral almost totally removing. Never have I heard a manager or player blame poor team moral on team talks. Saying we can win is not going to randomly destroy moral because you told your players they could win last week. Losing or winning games and a bunch of players who get on well you hear increases/decreases moral, team talks never.

    Now its going to be threads like..
    'how come I lost 6-0 to a team 2 leagues lower than me?'
    'Did you we can win as a cumumber or a tea cup?'
    Last edited by Born2killzone; 29-08-2011 at 09:26.

  7. #507
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    Quote Originally Posted by Born2killzone View Post
    It has become hugely influential. And most of the community has figured it out. When people made problem threads it used to be 'its your tactics' you heard, now its 'its your team talks'.
    Most of the community??
    I would rather listen to the guy who helped develop the system and that is definitely not what he says about it.

  8. #508
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    I'd rather listen to my own experiences than what anyone else tries to tell me they hoped would happen. I'm sure he didnt intenially try to make them this broken.
    Last edited by Born2killzone; 29-08-2011 at 09:33.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Born2killzone View Post
    I'd rather listen to my own experiences than what anyone else tries to tell me they hoped would happen.
    My experiences are completely different, where does that leave the argument?

    On another note, are there screenshots of the new scouting reports (not your own players, but other teams players and when you get opposition team reports)

  10. #510
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    Quote Originally Posted by Born2killzone View Post
    I'd rather listen to my own experiences than what anyone else tries to tell me they hoped would happen. I'm sure he didnt intenially try to make them this broken.
    I'd rather listen to the guy that helped design the system as he ACTUALLY knows what is going on behind the scenes.
    My experiences are completely different to yours, what does that say? Am i not part of this vast community that knows its broken?

  11. #511
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    i hope they sort out the editor

  12. #512
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    Quote Originally Posted by FMtillidie View Post
    i hope they sort out the editor
    +1 on that, only really started using recently its still a bit limited imo

  13. #513
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    Well maybe he got it wrong. It does happen, thats why you often hear devs say something like 'didnt work as intended' ', 'difficult to get right', 'hard to balance' or 'patch to fix the whatever they got wrong'

  14. #514
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    or maybe your completely wide of the mark, and this whole "most of the community has figured it out" is just you really trying to sensationalize the situation to back up your point?

  15. #515
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    Maybe. But I say otherwise.

    Enjoy your tea cup throwing..

  16. #516
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    Calm down folks

    I think we can all agree team talks need attention, I'm assured by a man who knows though that their effect isn't as influential as many believe and that it's more pronounced on individuals than whole teams.

    We can only hope FM12 gives us better opportunities to deal with this aspect of the game

  17. #517
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kriss View Post

    I think we can all agree team talks need attention, I'm assured by a man who knows though that their effect isn't as influential as many believe and that it's more pronounced on individuals than whole teams.
    They keep saying that across the forums, but many members judge by their own experience when they say team talks are too important. If someone wins most of the time without transfers or tinkering with tactics, but just by getting the team talks and chats right, then surely that person won't believe that "team talks aren't as influental as before". It's simply empirical.

  18. #518
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    But they are not winning just because they have picked the "right" team talk, thats the point, people seem to think that is the case, its not at all. You can win after choosing any team talk if your team is set out the right way.

    This post sums it up perfectly

    http://community.sigames.com/showthr...=1#post7005524

    and this one

    http://community.sigames.com/showthr...=1#post7005640

  19. #519
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    'people seem to think that is the case, its not at all. You can win after choosing any team talk if your team is set out the right way.'

    So its turned from just me to people now? nevermind.

    You can win with any team talk if your set out the right way, and you can win with the right team talk even if you set up the wrong way.

    You have a much higher chance with the right one, to the point where its the difference between winning and losing.

    I'm not going to pretend to be a tactical genius, I just get one that kind of works then stick with it (home and away, against any opposition) and let the team talks do the rest. It works. I had a lot of success in about 12 seasons and never paid a penny for a single player, keeping pretty much the same squad thru back to back promotions (not really my choice, the AI never took an interest in signing any of my players) The players performance didnt differ wether I stuck in my star striker or the one from the reserves. I just rotated them making sure moral was high with the correct individual team talks.

    I wasnt even bothered about renewing contracts in the end because anyone of my players would do. I just kept promoting youth players and picking up frees, as long as they played in the correct position, thats enough.

    Should I have really had any success with that approach? No, would be the correct answer.

  20. #520
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    Team talks are being unbelievably overplayed here. Make very little difference half the time if you have a competent tactic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Themer View Post
    Team talks are being unbelievably overplayed here. Make very little difference half the time if you have a competent tactic.
    totally agreed with this

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    Quote Originally Posted by themadsheep2001 View Post
    totally agreed with this
    Me too. They are overplayed and If you have got a competent tactic you can get away with the wrong team talk half the time. And on the otherside, if you havent got a competitive tactic, you can get away with the right team talk half the time.


    Theres no mention of what I'd like to see improved. AI. It seems to get a little worse every year. The more complicated the game gets the more harder it seems to get right.

    Theres far too many unrealistic events happen with AI. Team building was better 5 years ago. AI buying was better 5 years ago. The AI dont seem interested in a bargain. They wont even buy good on a free. I couldnt give my players away. My leading goal scorer for 5 seasons running had about 2 enquirys. I never had to fend of bids from the AI.
    The AI keeping almost the same squad for a decade. Star players sitting in the reserves till they retire.
    Players wanting more money to join a lesser club rescuing them from the reserves.
    The newest one is clubs paying millions to loan a player for a few months, not even playing them. Even if they did play them those clubs wouldnt spend that much if it was for keeps, never mind a loan.

    These kind of things break realism for me, and an even bigger crime it makes the game really dull.

    The last few FMs have had this issue, only getting slightly worse each year. Is that being looked into or will it follow the trend?

  23. #523
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    Anyone know if you can offer to buy a player and loan them back that year in 2012? Couldn't remember seeing anything like that.

  24. #524
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    Quote Originally Posted by Born2killzone View Post
    I'm not going to pretend to be a tactical genius, I just get one that kind of works then stick with it (home and away, against any opposition) and let the team talks do the rest. It works.
    Well, that sort of explains things. If you opt never to change tactics, even via shouts, then you've forfeited the opportunity to get the upper hand via tactical adjustments, and your performances will largely hinge on the one remaining main factor that you actually tailor to conditions - motivation. This is especially the case if the tactic you keep using is not appropriate for the game at hand; highly motivated players can compensate and still grind out a result, but enter the pitch with a poor attitude and you're at an even further disadvantage.

    With this sort of approach to the game, yes, motivation becomes imperative, because it's the only tool you apply. If you're able to actually win top divisions this way with mediocre players I'd consider that an issue, but one with the opposition AI being far too forgiving, not the team talks system.

  25. #525
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    Quote Originally Posted by Born2killzone View Post
    'people seem to think that is the case, its not at all. You can win after choosing any team talk if your team is set out the right way.'

    So its turned from just me to people now? nevermind.

    You can win with any team talk if your set out the right way, and you can win with the right team talk even if you set up the wrong way.

    You have a much higher chance with the right one, to the point where its the difference between winning and losing.

    I'm not going to pretend to be a tactical genius, I just get one that kind of works then stick with it (home and away, against any opposition) and let the team talks do the rest. It works. I had a lot of success in about 12 seasons and never paid a penny for a single player, keeping pretty much the same squad thru back to back promotions (not really my choice, the AI never took an interest in signing any of my players) The players performance didnt differ wether I stuck in my star striker or the one from the reserves. I just rotated them making sure moral was high with the correct individual team talks.

    I wasnt even bothered about renewing contracts in the end because anyone of my players would do. I just kept promoting youth players and picking up frees, as long as they played in the correct position, thats enough.

    Should I have really had any success with that approach? No, would be the correct answer.
    If all you ever change are team talks its the only thing you will notice making a difference.

  26. #526
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    The new features of FM 12 sound really good. I'm still looking forward to a 3D view from the bench
    Please don't move for the "fifa manager features".
    12 years after my first experience with this managing game, still the greatest job on Earth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by milnerpoint View Post
    If all you ever change are team talks its the only thing you will notice making a difference.
    Thats exactly why I can say how much of a difference it makes.

    If your changing everything how can you be sure its not your team talks winning the game and not your tactical changes that made a difference? Unless you dont use team talks? What makes you think it was the tactical change and not the team talk that kept your unbeaten run.

    You learn in chemistry when doing an experiment that if you want to find out the effects of something, all other factors must be kept a constant.

    All I change are the team talks and is all I notice making the difference. Its the difference between relegation and promotion. The difference between never winning away, and being undefeated away.

    Team talks create morale and morale is key to success. Everything else is a very distant 2nd. Team talks have far too much of an effect.
    Last edited by Born2killzone; 29-08-2011 at 15:19.

  28. #528
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    Did you read the link i posted above, where wwfan states your wrong, he helped work on that part of the game, he is not strictly speaking an SI employee and has no problem criticizing parts of the game he thinks dont work properly so he is not biased. Why do you refuse to believe what he is saying?

    I have done plenty of tests on my own, picking what i would consider to be the "wrong" team talk for games and it has little effect, you will not lose a winning streak JUST because you chose the "wrong" team talk, it may slightly affect a performance but not to the extent that it decides the final outcome. I've gone through winning streaks using no team talks at all, not even to praise a good performance, ive turned around losing streaks by demanding wins. Again yes they have an effect, but a tiny one, easily countered with tactical instructions both for the good and bad of your team. Moral is rightly very important in the game, in reality it is one of the biggest factors in sport, almost anything can make way to a good team confidence and moral.

  29. #529
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    Quote Originally Posted by Born2killzone View Post
    Me too. They are overplayed and If you have got a competent tactic you can get away with the wrong team talk half the time. And on the otherside, if you havent got a competitive tactic, you can get away with the right team talk half the time.


    Theres no mention of what I'd like to see improved. AI. It seems to get a little worse every year. The more complicated the game gets the more harder it seems to get right.

    Theres far too many unrealistic events happen with AI. Team building was better 5 years ago. AI buying was better 5 years ago. The AI dont seem interested in a bargain. They wont even buy good on a free. I couldnt give my players away. My leading goal scorer for 5 seasons running had about 2 enquirys. I never had to fend of bids from the AI.
    The AI keeping almost the same squad for a decade. Star players sitting in the reserves till they retire.
    Players wanting more money to join a lesser club rescuing them from the reserves.
    The newest one is clubs paying millions to loan a player for a few months, not even playing them. Even if they did play them those clubs wouldnt spend that much if it was for keeps, never mind a loan.

    These kind of things break realism for me, and an even bigger crime it makes the game really dull.

    The last few FMs have had this issue, only getting slightly worse each year. Is that being looked into or will it follow the trend?
    You misunderstand completely, we were agreeing on how they have little affect if you have decent tactic. Its just not true that everything else takes 2nd place otherwise it would be impossible for me to have the success i get the way i implement my approach

  30. #530
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    Quote Originally Posted by themadsheep2001 View Post
    You misunderstand completely, we were agreeing on how they have little affect if you have decent tactic. Its just not true that everything else takes 2nd place otherwise it would be impossible for me to have the success i get the way i implement my approach
    No, I understand completley. I fully agree if your tactic is good you can probably get away with not doing the right team talk. (although I find it hard to believe anybody will have any long term success getting it wrong more often than not).

    But if your saying you dont even bother with team talks then I guess it is possible to have long term success without them.

    What I'm saying is with the right team talks you dont even have to bother with your tactics.

    From what youre saying your not in a position to say otherwise, because you havent tried.

  31. #531
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    Quote Originally Posted by Born2killzone View Post
    No, I understand completley. I fully agree if your tactic is good you can probably get away with not doing the right team talk. (although I find it hard to believe anybody will have any long term success getting it wrong more often than not).

    But if your saying you dont even bother with team talks then I guess it is possible to have long term success without them.

    I'm saying with the right team talks you dont even have to bother with your tactics.
    that isnt true, if you have a poor tactic, team talks wont save you. but if you have a good solid tactic, and you are a very goood motivator (ie team talks and the like), you can get success. The same is also true IRL. Some manager gets the best from their side purely by being excellent man managers and motivators, some by being almost pure tacticians.

    Are team talks vague? some are certainly and i hope they have been reworded. Are they overpowered? no

  32. #532
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    exactly, you go away to a team like Barca or Real, play with a 2 man defense and two centre backs both with pace of 5, push your defensive line as high as possible and see what happens, no team talk will save that result.
    Some manages are renowned for being fantastic motivators without really being the greatest tactictians. You can find countless examples of teams massively over achieving purely because of their team moral and confidence.

  33. #533
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    It's all looking really good. Any further updates/vids/pics that people know about?

  34. #534
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eugene Tyson View Post
    It's all looking really good. Any further updates/vids/pics that people know about?
    Not that ive seen, desperately awaiting some screenshots, and for the blogs to start up too

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    Cheers, thought as much, no harm in checking.

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    It is true, because I did it.

    I dont know how poor it was. Pretty much the one you get given at the start. 4-4-2. I Never used shouts or tinkered. We had 11 players on the pitch. Stuck players in the right position. I had a Goal keeper. It wasnt exactly a suicide formation. I didnt go out to deliberately create a losing tactic. I wanted to win. I conceded quite a few but scored more. Rarely had clean sheets. Done that for many seasons taking my team from bottom to top, without buying or selling a single player, till I got completly bored.

    I never felt any connection to any of my players because 1 played as well as the other. If there contracts ran out I didnt feel the need to renew as anybody could play, and play just as well putting in identical performances. If my star striker scored 2 a game so would my reserve. My left back gets an average 7 rating a season so will the guy that went in his place.

    Players meant nothing, tactics meant nothing. Team talks meant everything. Well maybe not quit everything but to SI its a hell of a lot more important than it ought to be.

    Thats all I'm saying on the matter. Squad morale is important but Team talks are 2 important on squad morale.
    Last edited by Born2killzone; 29-08-2011 at 16:16.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Born2killzone View Post
    It is true, because I did it.

    I dont know how poor it was. Pretty much the one you get given at the start. 4-4-2. I Never used shouts or tinkered. We had 11 players on the pitch. Stuck players in the right position. I had a Goal keeper. It wasnt exactly a suicide formation. I didnt go out to deliberately create a losing tactic. I wanted to win. I conceded quite a few but scored more. Rarely had clean sheets. Done that for many seasons taking my team from bottom to top, without buying or selling a single player, till I got completly bored.

    I never felt any connection to any of my players because 1 played as well as the other. If there contracts ran out I didnt feel the need to renew as anybody could play, and play just as well putting in identical performances. If my star striker scored 2 a game so would my reserve. My left back gets an average 7 rating a season so will the guy that went in his place.

    Players meant nothing, tactics meant nothing. Team talks meant everything. Well maybe not quit everything but to SI its a hell of a lot more important than it ought to be.
    Thats not a poor tactic. simple =/= poor. the default tactic is actually pretty solid.

  38. #538
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    Its not solid if I get my team talk wrong. Before I figured out team talks I never won a single game away from home. How can you go from not winning any to being undefeated if my tactic was fine all alone?

    Morale wins games. A high morale striker will score more than a low one. I dont think anybody would argue that. How do you build morale in SIs eyes? Get your team talks right.

    Thats definately the last thing I'm saying on it. I have seen it with my own eyes. trust me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Born2killzone View Post
    [...]
    If you did that well with just that approach it is a bit concerning. I'm not sure I'd want to kill the possibility to be a motivation-centric manager by decimating the talk effect altogether, but maybe it needs to be harder to get such great reactions out of your players.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scab View Post
    If you did that well with just that approach it is a bit concerning. I'm not sure I'd want to kill the possibility to be a motivation-centric manager by decimating the talk effect altogether, but maybe it needs to be harder to get such great reactions out of your players.
    Thats my whole point. They have 2 much of an effect. I would have loved to see team talks work slightly but still needing to buy good players and the likes and adjusting tactics to suit. I would like to see team talks just maybe give you a 5 minute boost at the start of a half to maybe not concede or get an early goal. Maybe help win you the game. That imo is about all it should do. Not creating a bulldozing morale effect for months on end.

    Morale should come soley from performing well, overachieving, winning and a good dressing room harmony with the other players, happy with training, happy at the club, happy with his contract. Important things that makes people happy. Not a quick 'we can win' before a match.

    You should still need good players though so morale should only take you so far. No matter how happy you are if your not very good you should stay not very good.
    Last edited by Born2killzone; 29-08-2011 at 16:43.

  41. #541
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    The issue is actually the way I and many many others tweak tactics in FM. This is something I have come to realize lately.

    The goals:

    * I want my team to dominate at home and at least be the most efficient team away
    * I want my team to create more chances and concede less chances than the opponent, at least if I am the favourite to win
    * I want them to play quick combinations up front, be able to counter attack and play fluent, flowing football when the opposition has men behind the ball
    * I want them to be aggressive and willing to take the ball from the opponent before they get to shoot, thus limiting their goalscoring opportunities

    Tweaking:

    * I sought to remove one problem at a time, and the first problem I noticed when playing a flat 442 was that there was a huge gap between the midfield and the defense, allowing their strikers to get the ball in front of the defenders all the time. I first tried setting their mentalities to defending and run forwards rarely, but it had little effect. I then tried to move one of the MC's to DMC position, but then there were two gigantic alleys to the both sides of the midfield, making things even worse. Finally I put both midfielders in DMC positions, and problem fixed.
    * The next problem was that the wingers, while occasionally helping the forwards, were leaving them alone for the most part. The same with the full backs; they got a bit of help from the wingers now and then, but mostly, they were just wide midfielders and I couldn't get them to do both with any tactical instructions. So I moved them up front to help the attack. That fixed the attacking problems, but the increased space in front of the full backs posed a new problem.
    * So I tried to tweak the full backs to be aggressive and deny space at the same time but didn't succeed until I set them to attacking mentality, first click closing down whole pitch, and the defensive line at first click push up. The central defenders got mostly the same instructions.
    * The problem now was that there was a large space between the deep midfielders and the strikers which I didn't use to any good, and the strikers were easily marked out of the game. Setting them to run forwards rarely and first click attacking mentality (deep-lying forwards, but I have locked all the instructions so idk if that applies in any way) fixed the problem.
    * The full backs now were incredibly annoying, as they very often just turned their backs to the pressing opposition, dwelling with the ball and losing it more often than not. So I tweaked various things before setting their passing style to max long passing seemed to fix the problem plus that their crossing became better.
    * The midfielders then were set to attacking mentalities as well, because otherwise they would just back off into the defensive line ballwatching. Hard tackling also helped.
    (I honestly don't remember the exact order of the tweaks, but this should be about right...)

    and voila... my tactic. Just the way I like it, and works like a charm with so varying teams - like Southampton, Leeds, Schalke, Juventus, Las Palmas, Sunderland, Sutton, Manchester City....

    Now, there are no tactical theories involved here - just usage of the available tools with the aim to improve the way the team plays, by way of observation and logic. It is a result of what works, not what SI wants to work. It is not a conscious effort to exploit holes in the ME, but is that what it becomes naturally? An exploitation tactic? I don't think so. The tools are there for us to use, and if the natural outcome of detailed tweaking is that the AI can't handle the way my team plays, then I believe that it is the product that is at fault, not it's user. However, one issue with this kind of tweaking is that of pretty basic Pavlov's Dog pshychology:

    When the team plays badly, the user - in this case me but I suppose this is universal - will of course see faults with his tactic. The tactical change that is believed to have caused the bad performance will be removed, and another put in place of it going into the next match and the next attempt to improve the tactic. And of course the extension of this is that a good performance causes the user to keep that tweak because it paid off. Ultimately, after having eradicated tactical impurities and implemented tactical inventions, the final result is one of pure excellence - of course.

    ... except that there are two things missing from this equation: team talks and morale. You keep good stuff and discard bad stuff, but a large part of the good stuff is the team overachieving because they are in good form! This way, you are honing a sharp sword... but if the sword breaks no honing can ever fix it. The result is that the tactic requires good morale and motivation in order to work. It is like giving a hyperactive squirrel Red Bull - surely fun to watch but once the can is empty you're in trouble.

    So, to sum it all up:

    What I do is playing the tactical part of the game based on the way the game IS

    What SI wants me to do is to play the tactical part of the game based on the way it should have been

  42. #542
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    Arrived late to this loooooong thread :-(

    Regarding adding/removing leagues - will vacant manager jobs at clubs in inactive leagues be shown, or would leagues still have to be active at the particular time of a vacancy to show it?

  43. #543
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    The manage anytime/anywhere addition sounds great but would appreciate a bit more info. I normally play long career game with England, Scotland, Italy, France and Spain set as playable leagues. Will job vacancies still crop up and may I still be approached for job vacancies in non playable leagues? Will leagues need to be view only for job opportunities etc? Increase in game speed would be good but trade off may be lack of job offers and, presumably, smaller player database (playable leagues add more players than view only leagues?).

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    Haven't read the whole thread so I'm not sure if this has been mentioned, and I know it isn't the be all and end all, but whats up with the 15 year old looking graphics engine? I really thought there would have been an improvement over last years as in the grand scheme of things, it's awful considering the technology available to us today. If you're going to add a 3D match engine then at least do it properly, or just don't bother. I wouldn't miss it that much. Thats my opinion anyway.

    I've always rushed out and bought FM blindly on release day but I don't think I will be doing that again. I'm just not very excited about FM12 because of some of the past versions and the way the series has been heading. I can only hope I'm proved wrong so fingers crossed.

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    I was going to wait until the Patch in after the transfer window next February. But my computer was reset and can't log into Steam. Steam not interested in helping me resolve blah blah blah. So haven't played FM11 in a while.

    I think I'll be buying FM12 just to be playing FM again. Although, I really had it set in my head that I wouldn't buy until February.

    I'll buy it though. There will be bugs and frustrations, as per every release. But I'm looking forward to it. Nothing like wrapping up in a duvet with a nice glass of whisky by the fireside playing FM through the winter.

  46. #546
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eugene Tyson View Post
    I was going to wait until the Patch in after the transfer window next February. But my computer was reset and can't log into Steam. Steam not interested in helping me resolve blah blah blah. So haven't played FM11 in a while.

    I think I'll be buying FM12 just to be playing FM again. Although, I really had it set in my head that I wouldn't buy until February.

    I'll buy it though. There will be bugs and frustrations, as per every release. But I'm looking forward to it. Nothing like wrapping up in a duvet with a nice glass of whisky by the fireside playing FM through the winter.

    thats a lie and you know it , check your ticket on the support website -.-

  47. #547
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    Huh?.................

  48. #548
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    In my opinion team talks are way too influencial and can definitly change the outcome of a match; however i think squad morale and streaks are even more influential.

    I usually get an Ass Man with great motivation, man management and let him do the team talks, if i disagree i modify them. If i start a losing or "not winning" streak i use every trick in the book to raise morale like conversations, player contracts and arranging friendlies with really weak teams; this usually gets me on the straight and narrow again. If you have a good team, good players, good tactics and you're on a winning streak, virtually no-one can stop you.

  49. #549
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    Going through the screenshots a 2nd time, I think my favorite change is a rather small one - the private chat morale arrows at each conversation line, showing how the player reacts line-by-line.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dking View Post
    Haven't read the whole thread so I'm not sure if this has been mentioned, and I know it isn't the be all and end all, but whats up with the 15 year old looking graphics engine? I really thought there would have been an improvement over last years as in the grand scheme of things, it's awful considering the technology available to us today. If you're going to add a 3D match engine then at least do it properly, or just don't bother. I wouldn't miss it that much. Thats my opinion anyway.

    I've always rushed out and bought FM blindly on release day but I don't think I will be doing that again. I'm just not very excited about FM12 because of some of the past versions and the way the series has been heading. I can only hope I'm proved wrong so fingers crossed.
    I agree with this. The 3D engine doesn't look overly great - I would also prefer they either fixed it to make it look really nice, or got rid of it altogether (I know they won't however). It seems to me as though they added it as a big new feature and then didn't put too much attention into the graphical details of it. Obviously this isn't going to make or break a game like this because it's more about simulation than graphical content, but I sometimes like to imagine how much cooler FM would be if they combined the pretty good game engine with a really sweet looking 3D match engine.

  51. #551
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    who whant lose ? in fm

  52. #552
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    I think a notepad during the game itself will a lot to the manager experience.

  53. #553
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    One of the annoying futures of FM11 is that is takes too long to complete a season due to many unrelated news item clicking and watching highlight matches taking 15-20 minutes to complete.
    Has this been optimized in FM12?

  54. #554
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minez01 View Post
    I agree with this. The 3D engine doesn't look overly great - I would also prefer they either fixed it to make it look really nice, or got rid of it altogether (I know they won't however). It seems to me as though they added it as a big new feature and then didn't put too much attention into the graphical details of it. Obviously this isn't going to make or break a game like this because it's more about simulation than graphical content, but I sometimes like to imagine how much cooler FM would be if they combined the pretty good game engine with a really sweet looking 3D match engine.
    The problem is that people don't want a FIFA or Pro Evo style of play. Football Manager is quite chunky, it's a database driven game. It takes time to process. SI actually collects user data from the people playing the game, analysing system specs, screen resolution, etc. and use this build the graphics, the user interface, size of databases etc. so that the average computer specs for most people playing the game will actually be able to play it without too much lag.

    Basically, I remember there being uproar when even asked to improve the graphics. But I think SI always said that they wouldn't add 3D game features until the technology became available to them to simulate the match properly.

    There has been many improvements to the match player, players, celebrations, reactions, etc. of players and the game engine itself over the years. I think first and foremost they wanted to get the technology to simulate the match engine working correctly. Despite the graphics looking early 1990s FIFA, the match engine was simulated in 3D.

    I think overtime, as the average user and system specs of computers increase, along with new technologies to advance the graphics, speed, database processing, become available that SI will incorporate these into the game.

    I think the 3D graphics are pretty decent. It's not too detailed, which is fine by me. I don't need to see a players face, or ripples on their shirt. The idea of the 3D match engine was to experience your tactics in 3D, not to check out the abs on Ronaldo when he celebrates.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ernest166 View Post
    I think a notepad during the game itself will a lot to the manager experience.
    Pen and paper, or a windowed mode of the game with notepad (or similar), your mobile phone, remember things in your head?

    I don't know what notes you'd want to take during the game? All the stats are given in Panels, and you can see where players are playing poorly, along with the Assistant notes etc.

    The notes are practically auto-generated...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Z View Post
    One of the annoying futures of FM11 is that is takes too long to complete a season due to many unrelated news item clicking and watching highlight matches taking 15-20 minutes to complete.
    Has this been optimized in FM12?

    I totally agree.

    Completely unimportant news items.

  55. #555
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    also agree that the drills were in 3d would be great to choose the 11 starting players on the team not to mention that you could devise some set pieces and absences were also well prepared, one thing I also would like it to be possible, is that the moment we are having a conversation with one of our players in private conversation, we could type the words that we liked best, including also the press conference!!
    TIP ONLY ONE THAT I THINK WOULD HAVE A LITTLE MORE OF EMOTION WOULD BE THE TRAINING, THE PLAYERS SHOULD BE ON WAY 3D tactical training - TECHNICAL - FRAME PLAYS - TRAINING OF FOULS AND ETC ...
    SO THE GAME WILL HAVE IN MY POINT OF VIEW AND IN MY HUMBLE OPINION MORE EMOTION.
    anything, dribbling the tricks should be more realistic movement of the tricks goals realixtas a little more .... I see feints are not only seen the player to catch the ball and run with the ball ..... the movement of players should be a little more realistic ... the size of the players a bit more ..... the face of dolls tbem or interface should be improved .....
    For example choose the leasing stage, arrange travel to games abroad, branded hotels in the case of games abroad. To organize games or tournaments abroad. All that the image of reality.
    Option of going with the team on preparations (training camp)

    -When you win an option to watch the trophy ceremony after the game

    - More iterations with the fans and referees
    training session should be improved. If we could see the players training that would help us find out more about the players. choosing the specific exercises and test some tactics during training.

    -Option to put the price on tickets for each game
    Option to sign with sponsors
    More-option to control the finances (merchandise)

  56. #556
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    No, please don't include options for ticket pricing, merchandising, etc. This is Football Manager, not Business Manager. I am happy to leave that side of things to my owner and his team of accountants.

  57. #557
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    -When you win an option to watch the trophy ceremony after the game

    I'd certainly like to see something akin to this, (optional of course) I've always felt the few dry statements you get on winning something are a hell of an anti climax.

  58. #558
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    "The board congratulate you on winning the Champions League but remind you to keep celebrations to a minimum to concentrate on future games"

    It's the last game of the season. The ultimate club trophy to win. We're going to wreck the place.

  59. #559
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    All those messages are more fun when you're a nothing club defying expectations.

  60. #560
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    I just ignore them they mean absolutely nothing.

    Another example of news items clogging up the news reel.

  61. #561
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    I like them. They happen a few times a year, if that. Far more annoying are endless updates on inconsequential loan/co-ownership deals, my team of scouts bothering me with effectively no news, or just the general pre-match palaver.

  62. #562
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eugene Tyson View Post
    Huh?.................
    wen you contact steam support your issued an ticked wich indicates the status of your inquiry to the steam support steam , if you don't even know what that is, you don't even know if your issue is being taking care of

  63. #563
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    Any ideia when the blogs about the new features begins?
    Will it be tomorrow (Set 1st)?

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    The ability to manage anywhere at any time is a brilliant touch. I wasn't originally going to buy the game and was going to stick with 11 until next year but that might just swing it.

  65. #565
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    Yeh got a ticket. I've been on and on and on to them referencing the ticket number and no reply.

    Thanks

    Quote Originally Posted by Aim_Less View Post
    wen you contact steam support your issued an ticked wich indicates the status of your inquiry to the steam support steam , if you don't even know what that is, you don't even know if your issue is being taking care of

  66. #566
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    Question about the "manage anywhere anytime" feature that just occurred to me:

    SI said you can turn on inactive leagues whilst playing a game, but can you turn active leagues off?

    For example, say I wanted to get my feet wet in a low-reputation league like Indonesia or Malaysia. I win some trophies, build up my reputation, and decide it's time to take the next step in my career, so I switch China and South Korea to active. Can I then switch Indonesia/Malaysia to inactive, so as to offset turning China/South Korea to active?

  67. #567
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason the Yank View Post
    Can I then switch Indonesia/Malaysia to inactive, so as to offset turning China/South Korea to active?
    That's the plan as I understand it.

  68. #568
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keyzer Soze View Post
    Any ideia when the blogs about the new features begins?
    Will it be tomorrow (Set 1st)?
    Miles speculatively mentioned on the podcast that it would be about when the next podcast comes out, which is the week after.

  69. #569
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kriss View Post
    That's the plan as I understand it.
    Excellent, ta.

  70. #570
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    You know, the tone thing could get kind of confusing during team talks. Imagine saying angry with a calm tone? How would that work?
    Manager: I know where you live.

    Yeah, I dunno.
    Last edited by 0gris; 01-09-2011 at 02:30.

  71. #571
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    Quote Originally Posted by 0gris View Post
    You know, the tone thing could get kind of confusing during team talks. Imagine saying angry with a calm tone? How would that work?
    Manager: I know where you live.

    Yeah, just dunno.
    Yeah, say we can win and then throw a tea cup at them. You should be able to do a di canio and drag them off the pitch with their shirts, while saying 'I just want to say thank you'.

  72. #572
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    Quote Originally Posted by 0gris View Post
    You know, the tone thing could get kind of confusing during team talks. Imagine saying angry with a calm tone? How would that work?
    Manager: I know where you live.

    Yeah, I dunno.
    I'm pretty sure the answers available for each tone would only match that tone, so you wouldn't be able to say something angry in a calm tone. (gotta hope that's so anyway)

  73. #573
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    Looking at the released screenshots there's a separate tab for each tone, so I think that's probably a sensible assumption.

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    Good spot Scab, bet it won't cope with sarcasm too well though whatever the choices

  75. #575
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    I wonder if you can cycle thru' the tones to find the response you want, or once chosen you must choose from that Tone!

  76. #576
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    It's not really "Tone" though. It's more "inflection" than "tone".

  77. #577
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    I'd quite like the AI buying policy to reflect the European home grown rules better. I've just got Lazio into the Champions League after joining in November, only to find a grand total of 3 home grown players in the squad (and zero club trained).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Z View Post
    One of the annoying futures of FM11 is that is takes too long to complete a season due to many unrelated news item clicking and watching highlight matches taking 15-20 minutes to complete.
    Has this been optimized in FM12?
    On a related note:

    Please fix the time out so it stops at new items that can be answered but dont need to be answered to proceed.
    The only choice are to click everything or skip everything but I only want to reply to things that need to be replied to.

  79. #579
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    One thing that does bother me is the media interaction about dangerman in the next match. They can say "player X must be stopped" 500 times and not once will your player be "X set for showdown" yet all you need to do is say it once and their players are fully motivated. It never works in our favour, always against us.

    Has this changed for 2012?

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    That media interaction works, it just hides the PR response from you. If you've been watching the morale of the player they target, you'll see it rise or fall depending on their response. You just won't 'see' the response. I've seen players both rise and fall after they were mentioned by an opposition manager.

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    Either way, it's silly. Just because their manager says "XY is the biggest threat", it doesn't mean the player's his morale should drop, especially not plummet from Superb to Poor (I've seen it happen)

  82. #582
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    I am hoping that 'Scouting improvements' extends to player reports. Particularly the 'Weaknesses' section, telling me a player is A)'Poor at Set Pieces', B)'Long Throws Worst' and C)'Fairly Inconsistant' is two thirds useless, with only 'C' worth reporting. I don't need telling that which I can see for myself in his Attributes.
    I hope that 'Injury Proneness' is at least given the highest priority of the Hidden Attribute weaknesses. 'Inconsistancy' is reported ahead of 'Injury Proneness' (FM10)

    Hidden attributes here>
    spoiler:
    Injury Proneness 14, Consistancy 8 = 'Fairly Inconsistant' in Scout Report


    If these things were introduced in FM11 then I will apologise and shut my mouth. (still on FM10)

    Cheers
    xxx

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    please Si take a lot of things OUT of the managers hands, Yes i said OUT

    for example how many managers IRL handle contract negotiations, you should be able to go to your board with a list of targets and say i'd like one of those please. maybe with the manager getting a somewhat limited involvement ie what status the player would have within the squad which would determine what the board offers him etc.

    and for the love of god put the fear of god into the youth players, how many 18 yr old youth players would disagree with a world class manager. and if they did you should have the option to throw them out on their ear as per real life

    oh and how about some good old fashioned greed? I mean C'mon any player offered 10 times his currently salary is going to jump ship. if in the real world a youngster is rotting in a bottom premier teams reserves and another Premier team were to come in and offer him ten times his wages he would be off like a rat up a drain pipe.

  84. #584
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    oh and can we get the arse command back please?

  85. #585
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    All I am hoping for in the improved scouting section is for my scout to tell me the player is better than my player in the position I am looking for....... For Instance, I goto the transfer screen, filter position to Central Midfield, I'm looking for a slightly attacking CM so I find an array of MCs and AMCs (of which the majorities natural position is AMC not MC) so I ask my scout for a report on a few and he comes back saying that the AMC are better than my AMC which isn't hard because the only one I got is U18s but what I wanted to know was is he better than my MC.

    So hopefully there will be an option to tell my scout which position I want the player for, or my scout will automatically tell me how the player rates against the players in my team in the positions he can play in. So the same you apply if the player scouted was an AMRL so the scout report would say that the player even thought his natural position is AML he is not better that my current AML but he is better than my AMR.

    I know there are occasions that even though the players stats look better than your current player but because it's not his natural position he may not be rated better.

    Because I hate buying a player thinking he is going to be better than my current player only for my assistant to tell me he's not when I go into the reports.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tigerhgrrrrrr View Post
    Fair comment RE report button, have never done that, forgot it existed, so sorry about that. It does feel that this use of the word Gay is backdoor homophobia, no pun intended, and yes I know "kids" use that word to mean bad - doesnt make it alright though does it? I used the same word for that same purpose 30 years ago- and then a Lesbian friend who's sexuality had not been known to me at that point, pointed out how damaging that trivial treatment of the subject could potentially be. I now look back with regret on those days, hence my concern. The net result of these exchanges is that I will be less likely to visit any thread where such behaviour is so casually overlooked, I guess few will be upset by my abstinance but it is a shame. I like reading about the new game this time of year, just am not keen on homophobia in any shape or form especially when I know it is not likely to be discouraged, let alone punished. Those under the age of 35 or so will probably think Im being a "pussy", I wonder if they will have that same view in 20 years time - I suspect and hope not.
    You're a giant fruit basket.

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    Quote Originally Posted by martvez View Post
    You're a giant fruit basket.
    Highly constructive post, positively overflowing with wit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by martvez View Post
    You're a giant fruit basket.
    Not sure these threads were intended as a theatre for insulting people, and this thread less than most I imagine!. I can live with "fruit basket" though, better than homophobia & bigotry. Am amazed there is any resistance to the sentiments of my previous posts, I stand by every word and always will do.

  89. #589
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    Slight chance you're overreacting with the use of the word "gay", though. I didn't detect any derogatory sentiment from what was originally posted. Nor was it pointed at a living person, in fact it was aimed at a non-sentient computer game.

    I don't know how anyone would take offense to that? I admit, name-calling someone would be grounds for argument, but that didn't happen.

    <shrugs>

    Viva la Football Manager

  90. #590
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    I don't know if anyone mentioned this but will there be dynamic rivalry in FM12?

    Would really love to see this on the new game

  91. #591
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    Please keep the thread on topic about FM 12 . Any poster with issues about other posts, use the report button if you consider it serious enough to merit Mod review.

  92. #592
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    1) Improve the AI managers
    2) Sort out the newgen/regens
    3) Fix transfer system
    4) Beta test the crap out of the game to minimise the bugs on final release!!

  93. #593
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    I haven't bought a version of this game since CM3. I played that game for years and loved every minute of it. I demoed FM11 and thought it was the first FM I would consider buying (and probably will this weekend). As for FM12, I would favour anything that would remove the tedious tasks from my control and focus more on what I deem are the essentials:
    - Player development (includes realistic regens)
    - AI team management
    - Tactics
    - Transfers

    Everything else (3D, team talks, press conferences) is rather superfluous to me and can actually detract from the overall experience.

  94. #594
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    Is there more news released about the editor? I would like to know if it is possible again to use multiple home-made-update-files at the same time and what effect they have on the manage anywhere-anytime function.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Welsh Lad View Post
    All I am hoping for in the improved scouting section is for my scout to tell me the player is better than my player in the position I am looking for....... For Instance, I goto the transfer screen, filter position to Central Midfield, I'm looking for a slightly attacking CM so I find an array of MCs and AMCs (of which the majorities natural position is AMC not MC) so I ask my scout for a report on a few and he comes back saying that the AMC are better than my AMC which isn't hard because the only one I got is U18s but what I wanted to know was is he better than my MC.

    So hopefully there will be an option to tell my scout which position I want the player for, or my scout will automatically tell me how the player rates against the players in my team in the positions he can play in. So the same you apply if the player scouted was an AMRL so the scout report would say that the player even thought his natural position is AML he is not better that my current AML but he is better than my AMR.

    I know there are occasions that even though the players stats look better than your current player but because it's not his natural position he may not be rated better.

    Because I hate buying a player thinking he is going to be better than my current player only for my assistant to tell me he's not when I go into the reports.
    Good points, I find scout reports now essential to assess potential signings more than in previous FM & old CM games. I have found that players with bad scout reports, no matter how good their stats, will always be a disappointment and players with poor stats but a glowing scout report will be a good investment, and this almost regardless of the Scout abilities (and over the last 2 years I can think of only one example that broke this rule of thumb in any save game of mine). This does make the game more immersive but makes "scouting" more time consuming. I hope scout reports will soon include comments on player mental state (I know there are defamation issues but a player who is likely to do something crazy and disharmonious will have history, something scouts would IRL pick up and report). EG Carlos Tevez report should suggest that he has a 2 year "itch".

    I really hope the "next opposition" reports include advice on which tactics and shouts to use to gain an advantage. The Manager still has to consider how these recommendations may have another knock on effect (eg Ass Man says push full backs up as wing backs but if they are relatively slow players this could be exploited to your cost).

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    My request would also be to improve regens - I think they should be linked to youth facilities at clubs and not just the nation itself, if I were to imrpove a scottish or welsh teams youth facilities and scouting to the extent we could pick up and manage youth football at a very high level, we should get the odd world class regen.
    Last edited by guspjmh; 03-09-2011 at 12:35. Reason: typo

  97. #597
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    I guess I'm the only one who wants dynamic rivalries in next years FM? There was some rumbling about that a few months ago before I left for deployment, now it seems the community is fine with the static rivalries.

    Please S.I. can you add dynamic rivalries, that way whenever the player brings up a club from the lower echelons of a league system they can have new rivals to challenge the player on sells/buys or trophies. I don't think Liverpool or Man Utd envisioned Chelsea as one of their rivals but they probably do now since Chelsea got taken over and challenging for all honours also.

  98. #598
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    Quote Originally Posted by interesti88 View Post
    I guess I'm the only one who wants dynamic rivalries in next years FM? There was some rumbling about that a few months ago before I left for deployment, now it seems the community is fine with the static rivalries.

    Please S.I. can you add dynamic rivalries, that way whenever the player brings up a club from the lower echelons of a league system they can have new rivals to challenge the player on sells/buys or trophies. I don't think Liverpool or Man Utd envisioned Chelsea as one of their rivals but they probably do now since Chelsea got taken over and challenging for all honours also.
    . I agree dynamic rivalry would be a good edition to the game but the question is that where does it stop? Becuase you can't have a page full of rivalries. I can imagine how hard coded that will be.

  99. #599
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    Quote Originally Posted by interesti88 View Post
    I guess I'm the only one who wants dynamic rivalries in next years FM? There was some rumbling about that a few months ago before I left for deployment, now it seems the community is fine with the static rivalries.

    Please S.I. can you add dynamic rivalries, that way whenever the player brings up a club from the lower echelons of a league system they can have new rivals to challenge the player on sells/buys or trophies. I don't think Liverpool or Man Utd envisioned Chelsea as one of their rivals but they probably do now since Chelsea got taken over and challenging for all honours also.
    Something like it exists in FM10. My team went from L2 to EPL then within a year or two of winning the EPL my scouts started to report that Chelsea, Man Utd and Arsenal would be unwilling to sell a player to a rival club. I didn't continue the save long enough to see if they ended up listed as rivals though.

  100. #600
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    Please correct this too.


    It generally happens when the schedules gets forwarded due to other matches that crops up. But playing 15 matches in march-april when it is known beforehand that national & continental matches are also there is not understandable.



    In a league where you can't play more than a certain number of foreign player. How can you increase your standing if recruitment is so poor, despite having finance and winning 2nd tire continental competition thrice.

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