FM18 New Roles Explained

[Cleon]

This is taken from my blog https://teaandbusquets.com/blog/

On this years Football Manager 2018, Sports Interactive have introduced some new exotic roles for us all to use. Some of these roles you might have heard the names mentioned before, especially if you’re into the tactical side of thing. The new roles are;

• CM – Mezzala (Support & Attack Duties)
• MR/ML – Inverted Winger (Support & Attack Duties)
• DMCL/R – Segundo Volante (Support & Attack Duties)
• CM – Carrilero (Support Duty)

If you are familiar with the name of these roles and have an idea of what they might be in real world football, then it’s probably wise to not attach the same meanings to what the roles are in Football Manager. The reason for this being they translate differently and have different meanings based on what country you might be from. Or the definition changes depending which footballing circles you follow, even the top football writers have different definitions for them. Not only that but some of the roles are ‘older’ type roles and have changed over the years. Either way, the naming of these roles is likely to cause a split amongst Football Managers, that’s why it’s best to put that issue to the side and focus on what the roles actually entail which we will focus on slightly further down the article. Try and focus on the description of the role rather than the name. As the descriptions this year for the new roles make it clear what the basics of the role is and what it’s supposed to do.

Two of the new roles, the Carrilero and Mezzala have hardcoded special behaviours in the match engine, which will see them play slightly wider than the other central midfielder roles available in the game.

If you want to use a Carrilero or Mezzala in your tactics then it’s important to remember that the roles can only be used from the outer midfield (MCL/R) positions if you use three or more central midfielders. For example if you played a flat 4-4-2 then you can have both midfielders as a Carrilero or Mezzala. However if you used a 3-5-2 then the central midfielder wouldn’t have either of these roles available but the outer two central midfielders would. It sounds more confusing than it really is but the above should explain why you might not be able to see the role initially.

Another role that has restrictions is the Segundo Volante which is not available from the traditional defensive midfielder (DMC) slot. To use this role you have to have them offset in the DMCL/R positions for it to be available because traditionally the role is never really used without another defensive midfielder by its side. Often it’s either an anchorman type role that accompanies it or a second Segundo Volante.

On top of those, we also see two other roles that were in previous games, have a slightly change to them.

• AML & AMR – Trequartista (Attack)
• RB/LB or RWB /LWB – Inverted Wing Back (Defend, Support, Attack & Automatic)

The Trequartista can now be used from not only the attacking midfield (AMC) position, but also from attacking midfield right and left positions. We can also now use the inverted wingback from the fullback position and the wingback positions. Both of the above roles still function the same way as before, it’s just now we have more positions to choose the role from.

Mezzala

The Mezzala is unique because it’s the only central midfielder role that actively seeks to move into the half space due to hardcoded behaviour. Similar to a Box-To-Box Midfielder but with less defensive responsibility, the Mezzala gets into attacking positions that an Inside Forward would usually be found in. He is a cross between an inside forward and a box to box midfielder, a player who uses flair, guile and ball skills to unlock defences while operating in the half spaces between the attackers and midfielders. While he serves to offer support to the defensive phase this is limited to being a passing outlet rather than a more physical presence that protects them.

When Antonio Conte was the Italian national team manager he would use Emanuele Giaccherini, who was a functional player, a player that would drift out wide but wasn’t a left wing back, (that was Darmian’s role) in the Mezzala role.

Giaccherini is a consistent, energetic, quick, hard-working, and versatile player. He is capable of aiding his team defensively, but also offensively, due to his ability to make attacking runs,contributing with goals, and assists, due to his reliable distribution. A technically gifted player, he was initially deployed as a winger on either flank early in his career, due to his dribbling ability, agility, acceleration, and balance, which aid him in beating players in one on one situations. He is capable of playing anywhere in midfield, however, and has more recently been deployed as a central midfielder(Mezzala), as a wing-back, or as an attacking midfielder.

In Game Description

This is the modern interpretation of the Mezzala, a central player that likes to drift wide and operate in half-spaces. The Mezzala is essentially a central/half winger, who likes to do his defending slightly further up the field, although he does generally have less defensive responsibility.

With a Support duty, the Mezzala will seek to balance his responsibilities between more traditional midfield work and the inclination to contribute in the attacking third.

With an Attack duty, the Mezzala will often leave his midfield responsibilities to his team-mates whilst mainly looking to make attacking contributions in the final third.

System that suit this role are (not limited to, this is just to give you a general idea) ones that have a high press and press from the front. The Mezzala excels at engaging players in the final third to put pressure on the opposition’s defenders.

It also suits systems that use a central midfield trio and needs someone to be a bit more adventurous and gungho (on an attack duty). It can even work in a two-man midfield too with the right balance or cover for how he could potentially leave you exposed at times.

Inverted Wingers

This role is self explanatory and most of you will already know what it involves.

In Game Description

The Inverted Winger aims to beat his man out wide before cutting into the attacking third to open up space for overlapping full-backs and to subsequently overload retreating defenders. The Inverted Winger works best when the player’s strongest foot is opposite to the side of the pitch he’s playing on

With a Support Duty, the Inverted Winger will cut diagonally across the defence to play the ball through the middle while overloading defenders and defensive midfielders ahead of the penalty area.

With an Attack Duty, the Inverted Winger will run directly at the defence with the options of shooting, passing or crossing as he moves into the attacking third.

Carrilero

When Ramires was at Chelsea and Benfica he would often be one of the players who fulfilled this role in a diamond midfield. He was a very disciplined player but would run into the group for the team, filling spaces and gaps between the lines.

It will require players who are hard working because the role is a workmanlike one, which requires the player to be very disciplined and tactically aware. The role will provide support in the wide areas in narrow formations.

In Game Description

The Carrilero – or “Shuttler” – is a supporting role more often than not utilised as part of a midfield three, or as two central midfielders in a diamond midfield. It is the job of these shuttlers to cover lateral areas of the pitch and link the defensive midfield area with the attacking midfield area. This is what separates the Carrileros from a Box-To-Box Midfielder, as they are not expected to shuttle between boxes, but merely between lines of the midfield. The role is that of a runner but also a water carrier for the team, should the team need it.

One of the main benefits of the Carrilero role is of that in narrow formations. The role offers a little width to these kind of formations as well as protecting or providing cover to the wide areas. This doesn’t mean they’ll always cover the wide areas though as it will hinder on the other roles and duties you’ve used in the tactic. The Carrilero will still have to cover central areas while offering cover to the wide areas, so be sensible when using the role and realistic about how demanding you are. If you expect him to be superman and fill two roles simultaneously without having the correct balance elsewhere to allow for this, then you could have major issues.

Segundo Volante

Out of all the midfield roles we have available currently on the game, the Segundo Volante is probably the most complete role of them all. It’s a demanding role and takes a certain type of player to pull it off. The player must have the attributes similar to those of the Box to Box midfielder for attacking situations. Then when the ball is lost he needs the attributes that you’d expect to find in a Defensive Midfielder, hence why I class it as a complete midfielder role.In recent years players such as Ramires, Paulinho, Hernanes and Elias all played this role while still playing in the Brazilian leagues.

A more recent European player you might be familiar with, playing this role, would be Bastian Schweinsteiger.

In Game Description

The ‘Segundo Volante’ is different from the Deep Lying Playmaker in that their role is primarily a defensive one, and is also different from the Ball Winning Midfielder, in that they often run with the ball, or arrive with a late run, into the opposition area in much the same way a Box-to-Box Central Midfielder does. It’s a common role for those familiar with Brazilian football and team often field two of them or pair them with an anchorman.

With a support duty, the Segundo Volante will look to support the attack whilst picking and choosing his opportunities to arrive late in the opposition’s penalty area.

With an attack duty, the Segundo Volante will get further forward and frequently look to arrive late in the opposition’s penalty area as well as attempting more shots on goal.

You’d expect a Segundo Volante to help start and support attacks, while also chipping in with assists and scoring too. The role suits systems where you might lack central midfielders like in a deep 4-2-3-1. The player would play like a central midfielder in possession of the ball but should act like a defensive midfielder when out of possession. It’s worth noting that if you use this role on an attack duty the player might seems ‘reckless’ in a positional sense because he will be going very high into the final third of the pitch and taking up those kind of positions. So if you lose the ball, you could find him struggling to regain his natural position.

[ferrarinseb]

@Cleon

Great Write up mate  

 

 

[Jean0987654321]

Nice explanation, Cleon.

 

One example of a Carrilero is Zanetti under Mou. He would act like a RB when Maicon would bomb down the flanks. Another one would prolly be Gabi Fernandez Arenas of Atletico Madrid. He would make lateral move in order to cover for the attacking fullbacks and even whip in a cross...

[Atarin]

The inverted winger sounds like exactly what I was hoping for. It describes Leyton Orient legend Dean Cox perfectly. A right footed player that played on the left, would run with the ball down the flank until he got about 18 yards out, he'd feint to hit the byline and then check, drag the ball inside - the overlapping fullback would shoot past him for the overload option - Cox could then lay it off to the fullback or nip inside the disorientated defender and whip in an inswinging cross for Kevin Lisbie to head home or smash one home himself. Ahhhh, how I miss that team.

[Jyuan83]

Lol the inverted winger role’s description is almost a carbon copy of the inside forward save for a few choice word changes, everything else reads the same. Hope it plays differently on the game. Yet to buy FM18 as i cannot bear with beta demos and the bugs associated with it.

[Atarin]

35 minutes ago, Jyuan83 said:

Lol the inverted winger role’s description is almost a carbon copy of the inside forward save for a few choice word changes, everything else reads the same. Hope it plays differently on the game. Yet to buy FM18 as i cannot bear with beta demos and the bugs associated with it.

They're not similar. For a start the IF starts much higher up the pitch, that alone changes how they play. Secondly the Inside Forward doesn't play like a winger at all. Their overriding instinct is to get on the ball, head for the box and and make something happen. They're a forward. The Inverted Winger is a winger. They combine as part of the midfield, they work in tandem with an overlapping fullback. They will still exploit the flank and stay wider until the fullback has overlapped them and then they will either support the overlapping fullback out wide or use the fullback as a decoy run allowing them to attack the space created by the defenders getting dragged across. A fullback compliments an Inside Forward, not the other way around.

[menne]

@Cleon in a 4123 (433) formation wich role do you think is better suited to ensure width for the CM left or right if that midfielder has behind a fullback on defend duty, and in front an inside forward? maybe mezzala? or carrillero?

--------------------CFsupport--------------------

IFsupport-------------------------------IFattack

-------------Mezzala?-----B2B-------------------

-------------------------DLP-------------------------

FBdefend--CD------------CD--------FBattack

------------------------GK----------------------------

[Atarin]

Ignore that. Was thinking of the Carrillo.

[Cleon]

6 minutes ago, menne said:

@Cleon in a 4123 (433) formation wich role do you think is better suited to ensure width for the CM left or right if that midfielder has behind a fullback on defend duty, and in front an inside forward? maybe mezzala? or carrillero?

--------------------CFsupport--------------------

IFsupport-------------------------------IFattack

-------------Mezzala?-----B2B-------------------

-------------------------DLP-------------------------

FBdefend--CD------------CD--------FBattack

------------------------GK----------------------------

Well the two roles you mention, from the description which one does the closest to what you're asking for the style you are creating and which one doesn't?  Only you know that  

[menne]

3 minutes ago, Cleon said:

Well the two roles you mention, from the description which one does what you're asking and which one doesn't? 

Mezzala?  

i have the doubt that mezzala is going in the same position of the inside forward: i need to use the space that my fullback is not covering, more wide spaces than half-spaces

[FMWolf]

Just out of curiosity, how is the movement of an inverted winger different from the movement of a wide midfielder instructed to cut inside?

Also, I'm having a bit of trouble understanding the Mezzala role. Could Hamsik  (in the Sarri system) be described as one?

[Atarin]

Wide midfielders play pass and move. Wingers dribble. The Wide midfielder that cuts inside will pass the ball off and move inside. The Inverted Winger will try to drive forward with the ball before combining with the fullback who has followed him up.

[henryzz]

Sounds like the inverted winger is different enough that it should also be available in AMR/L.

I would love to see similar descriptions for all the other roles.

[Atarin]

Inverted Winger wouldn't make a lot of sense in the AMR/L because there wouldn't be enough space or a good enough angle to do anything from out wide that high up. A similar but not identical role would be AML/R Winger-Support if combined with an attacking FB/WB and the TI to Overlap. In that scenario the winger will prioritise holding the ball up and laying it off the attacking fullback. You don't get the cutting in aspect, however.

[kandersson]

Could you please be more specific about the behavior of MEZ and CAR? Which are their hardcoded movements (e.g. I can 'see' the HB dropping deep between centre backs but still not sure about MEZ and CAR)? Thanks.

[Atarin]

1 minute ago, kandersson said:

Could you please be more specific about the behavior of MEZ and CAR? Which are their hardcoded movements (e.g. I can 'see' the HB dropping back between centre backs but still not sure about MEZ and CAR)?

I'm going to leave that to someone else more qualified. I'm a bit of footballing dinosaur and the mere mention of foreign sounding roles leaves me feeling a little like ... 

[Cleon]

45 minutes ago, kandersson said:

Could you please be more specific about the behavior of MEZ and CAR? Which are their hardcoded movements (e.g. I can 'see' the HB dropping deep between centre backs but still not sure about MEZ and CAR)? Thanks.

I can but I won’t be yet. I want people to use the role and see for themselves by experimenting. I’ve gave more than enough information so people can see how it acts and what the roles involve. It’s no fun if someone’s tells you every single aspect 🤣

[Armistice]

I am still to experiment with a HB so I'll ask here hoping that someone did try this. I remember from past years experience that, when the HB dropped between the CBs, they didn't split wide if you played four at the back. Does anybody know if it has been fixed?

[herne79]

1 hour ago, Armistice said:

I am still to experiment with a HB so I'll ask here hoping that someone did try this. I remember from past years experience that, when the HB dropped between the CBs, they didn't split wide if you played four at the back. Does anybody know if it has been fixed?

Lets stay on topic please .

[Pompey_Dan]

23 hours ago, kandersson said:

Could you please be more specific about the behavior of MEZ and CAR? Which are their hardcoded movements (e.g. I can 'see' the HB dropping deep between centre backs but still not sure about MEZ and CAR)? Thanks.

Thus far in the beta I've been mostly playing a 4-3-1-2 tactic (sometimes a 4-1-3-2) largely inspired by the 2010 Benfica side in which Angel Di Maria and Ramires both played.

http://www.zonalmarking.net/2010/03/02/benfica-the-most-attactive-side-in-europe/

Michael Cox describes the roles of Di Maria and Ramires as carrileros:

Quote

"The side essentially plays with a diamond in midfield, although with the carrileros so attacking"

"the offensive slant of the midfielders is compensated for by the fact that the two carrileros are very energetic, and work hard to get goalside when Benfica are not in possession. Indeed, this is a good example of how to play the diamond shape – Di Maria and Ramires play from inside to out, and are comfortable scrapping in midfield as well as getting to the byline and getting crosses in."

 

It's early days and I make these observations with a limited amount of playing time but I have experimated with both roles in the 4-3-1-2 and would argue that, in FM18 terms, both midfielders were actually playing as mezzalas in Benfica's system.  In this team di Maria and Ramires would play aggressively from the central position into the half spaces ahead.  I consider the FM18's mezzala a more progressive role than it's version of the carrilero; the mezzala is more involved in the attacking build up, getting into those half space in the final third of the pitch.  On the other hand I see FM18's carrilero as a lateral box to box midfielder - a touchline to touchline midfielder if you will. 

This is perhaps illustrated best when we look at the difference in the players heat maps, touches and passes recieved below; first up the mezzala (attack) as compared with the carrilero:-

 

My initial impressions are that the mezzala acts in a similar way to it's central midfielder counterpart with certain shouts applied; whereas the carrilero has it's movement and pitch coverage 'hard wired' into the game.  If one were to compare the player instructions for each role one would find...

When the opposition has the ball the mezzala (support) closes down slightly more.

When his team has the ball the mezzala (support) is set to get further forward, move into channels and roam from position.  The carrileros movement appears to be 'hard wired' with the hold position, roam from position and dribble more/dribble less instructions unavailable.

Like the man in orthopaedic shoes I may stand corrected, but I consider the mezzala a more 'attack' minded role compared to the carrilero whose lateral movement makes him an ideal option for ensuring ball circulation in possession orientated sides.

 

 

[Cleon]

Quote

My initial impressions are that the mezzala acts in a similar way to it's central midfielder counterpart with certain shouts applied; 

The Mezzala is more attacking than a CMA and has behaviours that can't be replicated by adding certain shouts to the CM role. As A) The shouts have different weights for different roles and B) The Mezzala hardcoded to play wider and get further forward (on attack). It is the only role on the game that used half spaces correctly due to how its programmed. The Carrilero is expected to cover the side its on and offer width. Again this is hardcoded that it goes wider.

[Park]

6 hours ago, Cleon said:

The Mezzala is more attacking than a CMA and has behaviours that can't be replicated by adding certain shouts to the CM role. As A) The shouts have different weights for different roles and B) The Mezzala hardcoded to play wider and get further forward (on attack). It is the only role on the game that used half spaces correctly due to how its programmed. The Carrilero is expected to cover the side its on and offer width. Again this is hardcoded that it goes wider.

Hopefully this isn't going too far off topic: is it just these new roles that have differences that we can't see in the instructions screens?

To use a comparison that I've seen around: Box to Box Midfielder seems the same as CM(support) with 'roam from position' ticked, but are there hardcoded differences too?

[Cleon]

6 hours ago, Park said:

Hopefully this isn't going too far off topic: is it just these new roles that have differences that we can't see in the instructions screens?

To use a comparison that I've seen around: Box to Box Midfielder seems the same as CM(support) with 'roam from position' ticked, but are there hardcoded differences too?

No but the settings for all positions have different weights. So its more than just a CM support with roam from position ticked. 

[Romers]

My original plan was to set up a flat midfield 3 of two Mezzala's both on attack either side of a Carrilero but to my horror you can't do this. My opinion was that's practically the current Man City 3 of Silva, Fernandinho, KDB but now I can't emulate this. Any ideas?

[yonko]

6 hours ago, Romers said:

My original plan was to set up a flat midfield 3 of two Mezzala's both on attack either side of a Carrilero but to my horror you can't do this. My opinion was that's practically the current Man City 3 of Silva, Fernandinho, KDB but now I can't emulate this. Any ideas?

DLP-D, RPM and MEZ-A would be the way I would set them up.

[Armistice]

Btw not sure if it's been asked before but does any of these new roles attract the ball like a playmaker?

[yonko]

33 minutes ago, Armistice said:

Btw not sure if it's been asked before but does any of these new roles attract the ball like a playmaker?

I haven't noticed them attracting the ball so far. I've been using the Mezzala role both on support and attack duty the most. It is very very effective role going forward and connecting with a False 9 and IF-A on the same side. Even on support duty, the Mezzala is more effective going forward than BBM or CM-A. I like the way they have coded it and is my favorite so far. Granted, I haven't used Segundo Volante yet, but I would assume it is similar going forward just from deeper position. I'm using Dele Alli in the Mezzala role at Barca, btw - Messi as F9, Suarez as IF-A, with Iniesta or Rakitic as AP/RPM.

[herne79]

55 minutes ago, Armistice said:

Btw not sure if it's been asked before but does any of these new roles attract the ball like a playmaker?

No.

[Fritz13]

3 hours ago, yonko said:

DLP-D, RPM and MEZ-A would be the way I would set them up.

Presume KDB would be the MEZ?

been using Seri as my MEZ and he seems to suit it.

[yonko]

3 hours ago, Fritz13 said:

Presume KDB would be the MEZ?

been using Seri as my MEZ and he seems to suit it.

KDB as the RPM, Silva as the MEZ and Fernandinho as DLP-D is what I'm thinking actually.

[Jyuan83]

@yonko by having the if and mez on the same side, would they be attacking the same areas and getting in each other’s way since in the earlier description it said the mez strives to get into positions not unlike that of an if?

[BillHoudini24]

One request Cleon, if you don't mind. I'd like to see more examples of well known players that suit the roles Mezzala-Segundo Volante-Carrilero, in order to better understand the terms. 

Are there any examples from the Premier League or well known Champions League teams?

If I understood correctly, I'd say that Lallana plays as a Mezzala(A) in Klopp's system, Henderson could be a Segundo Volante(S) and Carrilero could be Kante, but I'm not that sure.

[Cleon]

I'll not be adding to the initial opening post. I'll probably talk about the roles in more depth at a later date when I use them in my save. But I believe I gave good examples already from well famous/known teams and explained what the roles do. It's now down to you to decide who is/isn't one.

I'd not get too focused on players who might play the role in real life though. I'd concentrate on the descriptions of the role and focus on what it does and why, I believe I've gave people more than enough information to be able to decide whether someone can play the role or not. And ideas of if its a role they can use in their own sets up.

I don't mean to sound rude, I just don't want to get hung up on who might play it in real life as that's always up for interpretation. I'd rather just focus on how it plays in game and how to use it in systems.

[herne79]

I previously asked to keep discussion about naming conventions to a different thread in order to keep this subject on topic and about the roles themselves.

Disappointingly this request is being ignored and I've had to hide several posts.  So you now leave me no other option but to say cut it out or warnings will follow.

This is the Tactics forum - people come here to understand how certain aspects (such as new roles) may impact the game from a tactical perspective.  The name of a role has no tactical impact.  Use the General Discussion forum and the Beta Feedback thread if you want to discuss that kind of thing.

[BillHoudini24]

2 hours ago, Cleon said:

I'll not be adding to the initial opening post. I'll probably talk about the roles in more depth at a later date when I use them in my save. But I believe I gave good examples already from well famous/known teams and explained what the roles do. It's now down to you to decide who is/isn't one.

I'd not get too focused on players who might play the role in real life though. I'd concentrate on the descriptions of the role and focus on what it does and why, I believe I've gave people more than enough information to be able to decide whether someone can play the role or not. And ideas of if its a role they can use in their own sets up.

I don't mean to sound rude, I just don't want to get hung up on who might play it in real life as that's always up for interpretation. I'd rather just focus on how it plays in game and how to use it in systems.

Didn't sound rude at all, looking forward to your next posts about them!

[Marc.Foster050]

 From what I understand the Car will function as a lateral mover on just the side of the pitch they are set up? So if I set up on a diamond the left midfielder would move to the left only and the one on the right would do the opposite? They wouldn't cross swords so to speak?

[Cleon]

43 minutes ago, Marc.Foster050 said:

 From what I understand the Car will function as a lateral mover on just the side of the pitch they are set up? So if I set up on a diamond the left midfielder would move to the left only and the one on the right would do the opposite? They wouldn't cross swords so to speak?

They might cross at times or overlap but for most parts would stick to the side they play on yeah. If you use the role and find them moving over the opposite side too much then this is a bug and needs to be reported.

[yonko]

14 hours ago, Jyuan83 said:

@yonko by having the if and mez on the same side, would they be attacking the same areas and getting in each other’s way since in the earlier description it said the mez strives to get into positions not unlike that of an if?

I haven't noticed it being a problem at all actually. I expected it to be, but tried it anyway. I use Roam From Position as TI and play on Control/Structured. Also, as I mentioned, I'm using Dele Alli as Mez and Suarez as the IF-A. Check their PPMs as I'm sure they play a role in the movement. They actually link up well together.

I'm currently experimenting with moving the Mez to MCR and playing next to Winger (AMR position) and see how that works. Not as good so far.

[Keyzer Soze]

On 29/10/2017 at 16:12, Cleon said:

The Mezzala is more attacking than a CMA and has behaviours that can't be replicated by adding certain shouts to the CM role. As A) The shouts have different weights for different roles and B) The Mezzala hardcoded to play wider and get further forward (on attack). It is the only role on the game that used half spaces correctly due to how its programmed. The Carrilero is expected to cover the side its on and offer width. Again this is hardcoded that it goes wider.

I dont have the game yet, because i play FMT in a ipad, but i'm very curious to test the Mezzala role in my usual, and favourite, 41221 formation:

CF(s)

IF(s)                                        W(s)

AP(s)           Mez(a)

DM(d)

WB(a)     CD(d)      CD(D)     FB(s)

SK(d)

In previous years, i was playing with a CM(a) in that position in the midfield, but the Mezzala could work even better, taking advantage of the space that the winger provide.

Another idea i want to test is using a Raumdeuter in that right flank, instead of the winger, so that the Mezzala exploits the open space leave by the Raumdeuter when he comes inside.

I think it's gonna be fun. 

[goqs06]

 

On 31/10/2017 at 15:44, BillHoudini24 said:

One request Cleon, if you don't mind. I'd like to see more examples of well known players that suit the roles Mezzala-Segundo Volante-Carrilero, in order to better understand the terms. 

Are there any examples from the Premier League or well known Champions League teams?

If I understood correctly, I'd say that Lallana plays as a Mezzala(A) in Klopp's system, Henderson could be a Segundo Volante(S) and Carrilero could be Kante, but I'm not that sure.

Would Pogba be a MEZ (A) and Fellaini a SV (A)?

[hawkgg]

Im looking for help to try understand the inverted winger role. Would i be wrong to say Robben and Ribery under Heynckes in the 2011-13 period were inverted wingers? Which role (Fullback, wing back, CWB) do you recommend to link up with the inverted winger? im a bit confused as wing backs link up well with inside forwards and FBs are great with wingers.

Thanks for any help.

[Cleon]

5 minutes ago, hawkgg said:

Im looking for help to try understand the inverted winger role. Would i be wrong to say Robben and Ribery under Heynckes in the 2011-13 period were inverted wingers? Which role (Fullback, wing back, CWB) do you recommend to link up with the inverted winger? im a bit confused as wing backs link up well with inside forwards and FBs are great with wingers.

Thanks for any help.

Those are great examples and would be accurate yeah. As for what roles link well with them it entirely depends what type of football you are creating. All of them are actually viable so you're not really limited

[jc1]

On 10/28/2017 at 10:00, Atarin said:

The inverted winger sounds like exactly what I was hoping for. It describes Leyton Orient legend Dean Cox perfectly. A right footed player that played on the left, would run with the ball down the flank until he got about 18 yards out, he'd feint to hit the byline and then check, drag the ball inside - the overlapping fullback would shoot past him for the overload option - Cox could then lay it off to the fullback or nip inside the disorientated defender and whip in an inswinging cross for Kevin Lisbie to head home or smash one home himself. Ahhhh, how I miss that team.

That's always been a position that's needed addressed, all we had before was either winger or inside forward, Ashley Young is the perfect example of the inverted winger.

[CapaJr]

So using a mezalla along with an advanced playmaker is not recommended then, since both of them will push up the pitch a lot and leave a lot of space behind. 

oh and since Carrilero and Mezalla both likes to go wide during the games, using both of them at the same time might cause a weakness in the middle of the pitch, correct? 

[goqs06]

8 hours ago, CapaJr said:

So using a mezalla along with an advanced playmaker is not recommended then, since both of them will push up the pitch a lot and leave a lot of space behind. 

oh and since Carrilero and Mezalla both likes to go wide during the games, using both of them at the same time might cause a weakness in the middle of the pitch, correct? 

@CapaJr the Mezzala tries to drift wide into the half-space like an inside forward. The duty of the Carrilero is to provide shuttle around lateral areas to cover attacking wing-backs. Both have the PI “Roam from Position” hardcoded, so putting both in a midfield 3 and esp 2 will cause potential gaps in the midfield. You could use 2 inverted wing backs to negate this issue though.

[Atarin]

On 10/30/2017 at 22:33, MoxeysTheName said:

Why isn't the carrilero, for example, not just called a shuttler in the English language versions. More people would know what that is and what it wouldn't be running for a dictionary in same way they would for carrilero( don't even if that is the correct spelling as I have to keep scrolling up and down the page just to be in with a chance of spelling it correctly).

Quote

Roles like Trequartista, Carrilero and Ramdeuter were to some extent pioneered but certainly best encapsulated by non-English speaking players, playing in non-English speaking countries. If you look at the Trequartista for example...say that word in Italy or Spain and they automa

Have a look at this webpage, it explains what a half space is. To be honest in England they are generally called channels. It can get confusing at times because channels also describe the lateral gaps between defenders but there you go.

Half-Spaces

An Inverted Winger plays defensively out on the wing (RM/LM) but cuts inside and occupies the channel/half-space (AMCL/AMCR). A Mezzala starts centrally (CM/CMR/CML) and drifts out into the half space (AMCL/AMCR).

A Carrilero starts out at MCL or MCR and tries to cover the ML or MR.

[CapaJr]

13 hours ago, goqs06 said:

@CapaJr the Mezzala tries to drift wide into the half-space like an inside forward. The duty of the Carrilero is to provide shuttle around lateral areas to cover attacking wing-backs. Both have the PI “Roam from Position” hardcoded, so putting both in a midfield 3 and esp 2 will cause potential gaps in the midfield. You could use 2 inverted wing backs to negate this issue though.

Thank you for that feedback. 

What about using a roaming Mezzala with a Advanced playmaker support role? i think that role isn't as roaming as Mezzala, right? 

would that work?

or would DLP role instead of a AP-S would be a more safer bet? 

(those two will be partnered with a third midfielder at DM-D role) 

[goqs06]

18 hours ago, Atarin said:

Have a look at this webpage, it explains what a half space is. To be honest in England they are generally called channels. It can get confusing at times because channels also describe the lateral gaps between defenders but there you go.

Half-Spaces

An Inverted Winger plays defensively out on the wing (RM/LM) but cuts inside and occupies the channel/half-space (AMCL/AMCR). A Mezzala starts centrally (CM/CMR/CML) and drifts out into the half space (AMCL/AMCR).

A Carrilero starts out at MCL or MCR and tries to cover the ML or MR.

 

12 hours ago, CapaJr said:

Thank you for that feedback. 

What about using a roaming Mezzala with a Advanced playmaker support role? i think that role isn't as roaming as Mezzala, right? 

would that work?

or would DLP role instead of a AP-S would be a more safer bet? 

(those two will be partnered with a third midfielder at DM-D role) 

@Atarin and @CapaJr these pictures should help!

[shaggydo]

Quick question for those who understand these roles better than me:

If I use a Mezzala on the right of a midfield three and have an Inside Forward ahead of him to the right, would they likely get in each other's way? Will the Mezzala work better with wingers (or wingbacks)?

[herne79]

4 hours ago, shaggydo said:

Quick question for those who understand these roles better than me:

If I use a Mezzala on the right of a midfield three and have an Inside Forward ahead of him to the right, would they likely get in each other's way? Will the Mezzala work better with wingers (or wingbacks)?

All part of the fun of experimenting .  Just load up a quick game (no need to save it) and watch how the players move around & interact.