FM18 New Roles Explained

[Miravlix]

On 11/14/2017 at 19:04, herne79 said:

All part of the fun of experimenting .  Just load up a quick game (no need to save it) and watch how the players move around & interact.

That make no sense, it takes months of training before an entire team is fluid in a tactic.

 

How many times have you thought "wow this tactics is great in pre-season", just to realize it's completely broken when the players get match fit and fluid in it...

[Atarin]

23 minutes ago, Miravlix said:

That make no sense, it takes months of training before an entire team is fluid in a tactic.

 

How many times have you thought "wow this tactics is great in pre-season", just to realize it's completely broken when the players get match fit and fluid in it...

Your team doesn't need to be fluid in a tactic to see how your winger plays when set as a Winger. Tactical Familiarity is to do with how well the players work together as a unit, anticipating each others movements.etc A Poacher set as a Poacher will still play as a poacher and you just have to watch their movement to see what it is a poacher does. It works the same with every other player and role as well.

Bare in mind, however, that PPMs (Player Preferred Moves) add a certain flavour to a player, so while a player's positional familiarity and attributes may say that they suit a particular role a PPM might completely negate it. A good example would be a left footed LM who has 19 crossing but the PPMs 'Plays simple passes' and 'Cuts inside with ball'. His 19 crossing won't count for much if he refuses to play it more than five yard and always finds himself in central positions whenever he gets the ball.

Start a game, as suggested, select any club, pick a formation, give every a basic role and duty and then select one you want to know more about and pick it, say LM - Winger(a) and just watch them for 90 minutes. You could go further and have your team exploit the left flank so he sees more of the ball. Make sure someone is giving him the ball on a regular basis and that he's got someone to aim for in the box and you're good to go.

[Miravlix]

I pick though pre-season matches, most of them give me the gloom and doom start about not having a chance in a million years to beat them.

 

Then my team OWNZ team like Real Madrid, Barcelona, etc. tactics looks like it's AMAZING and then comes the season and everything is broken, because it wasn't really tactics, but a combination of over archiving and not following the tactics, the players just did their own stuff.

[spaskecar]

For those who are a bit lazier like me, who like more to listen and watch than read xD I found one good video describing new role - Carrilero, maybe this can be helpful to make it even more clear. I hope I contributed a bit  

 

[herne79]

On ‎06‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 19:57, spaskecar said:

For those who are a bit lazier like me, who like more to listen and watch than read xD I found one good video describing new role - Carrilero, maybe this can be helpful to make it even more clear. I hope I contributed a bit  

 

Sorry, that video contains a lot of inaccurate information and subjective opinion so I've removed it.  For example, to say that the Carrilero does not get up and down the pitch and only contributes on the wings is wrong.  He'll make good lateral movement to help out defensively but will also come back towards the centre when needed.  In possession he'll make forward runs to support both central and wide play as well as helping to link defence to attack, but he won't be making runs towards the wings - that's a Mezzala.

[hoppo1982]

I've been experimenting with the new roles and the Mezzala seems bang on. The movement is obvious to see.

 

The Carrilero however doesn't seem to move laterally as much as I was hoping. Seems to stay central and get forward as a CM(s) would. 

I've tried different shapes and combinations , diamond midfield with wingbacks, midfield 3 etc.

In addition I've tried several different players in the role to ensure its not their decision making nor PPMs 

 

I'd post a screenshot but I'm not sure how to do so ! Anyone else come across this type of movement with this role ?

[vasilli07]

My favourite role is the Mezzala. I played with 2 of them, one on support and one on attack. With the IFs coming inside and Mezzalas going outside, the movement is pretty good.

[goqs06]

3 hours ago, vasilli07 said:

My favourite role is the Mezzala. I played with 2 of them, one on support and one on attack. With the IFs coming inside and Mezzalas going outside, the movement is pretty good.

That sounds kinda De Bruyne-Sterling esque.

[hoppo1982]

On 12/26/2017 at 14:56, hoppo1982 said:

I've been experimenting with the new roles and the Mezzala seems bang on. The movement is obvious to see.

 

The Carrilero however doesn't seem to move laterally as much as I was hoping. Seems to stay central and get forward as a CM(s) would. 

I've tried different shapes and combinations , diamond midfield with wingbacks, midfield 3 etc.

In addition I've tried several different players in the role to ensure its not their decision making nor PPMs 

 

I'd post a screenshot but I'm not sure how to do so ! Anyone else come across this type of movement with this role ?

Bump ?!

[herne79]

5 hours ago, hoppo1982 said:

Bump ?!

The Carrilero moves laterally to help defend the flanks.  When in possession he'll tend to do what you describe.

[hoppo1982]

23 hours ago, herne79 said:

The Carrilero moves laterally to help defend the flanks.  When in possession he'll tend to do what you describe.

I appreciate that. I am not seeing the lateral movement to protect the flanks when the team is out of possession. 

[herne79]

8 minutes ago, hoppo1982 said:

I appreciate that. I am not seeing the lateral movement to protect the flanks when the team is out of possession. 

I know a lot of work was done on this aspect during development and testing, so if you're not seeing that type of movement you could raise it in the Bugs forum along with example pkms of matches and timings during those matches where you feel the movement is off.

However before you do you could - if you feel that double checking things might help - start a new thread in this forum detailing your tactic(s) and the players you've been using to see if anyone else might give you some fresh ideas.

[hoppo1982]

Will do. Appreciate the advice. 

[isignedupfornorealreason]

I'm confused. For those of us that made inside forwards via WM/A, is the new solution to use inverted wingers? Or is the WM/A still the better option? 

 

I haven't got FM18 to see for myself, just curious. I was reading up a wonderful (old) post about WM/A's and IF's essentially taking up similar positions and behaviour, even though the WM starts deeper. So, yeah, just wondering.

[Jean0987654321]

9 hours ago, isignedupfornorealreason said:

I'm confused. For those of us that made inside forwards via WM/A, is the new solution to use inverted wingers? Or is the WM/A still the better option? 

 

I haven't got FM18 to see for myself, just curious. I was reading up a wonderful (old) post about WM/A's and IF's essentially taking up similar positions and behaviour, even though the WM starts deeper. So, yeah, just wondering.

You could use both but I usually use IWs because they have less PIs that I need to tick on

[Double Indemnity]

I haven't bought FM18 yet, but the Mezzala sounds exactly like what I was always trying to get my third man in a 4-3-1-2 midfield to do. I was always trying different combinations of roles and shouts to try and get him to exploit the space on the flank ahead of my more defensive-minded wing back. Pretty excited to try it out.

[Keyzer Soze]

Hi, 

Little question regarding the Mezzala, and the PI to run wide with ball. 

If we have the Mezzala, playing with support role, and on the same side of the pitch a winger in the AMR position, would the Mezzala and the winger be in some conflict if we set the PI to run wide with ball? 

[stevecummins78]

This is a really useful thread.

Like others I have experimented a bit with the roles, but I've not made any firm conclusions.

On my Roma save I now have Denis Zakaria who I have signed to provide a physical ball winning presence in midfield. I am, though, concerned about his tendency to dive in to tackles, even when I tell him not to, so he is a red card waiting to happen. I wonder if carrilero would be a better role for him, especially as he could then cover the space created by Alex Telles, one of my attacking full backs. I also have my left inside forward with individual instructions to come inside a lot more, because it is Angel Correa and I want him to play as a '10' with license to make runs in to the box as well where I want him to link up with countryman Lautaro Martinez. When Correa is not performing (which can be often the case as his determination is so poor) I replace him with an out and out left winger from the bench.

As for mezzala, I too play with inside forwards (with Cenzig Under in that role on the right) so I am wary about two players attacking the same space, though I am now thinking of using Felice D'Amico as a right winger which could allow a player like Lorenzo Pellegrini or Nicolo Barrello to occupy that role.

How I'm thinking of lining up:

 

CF(A)

IF(A)                                                                       W(A)

CAR                           MEZ

DLP(D)

FB(A)                                                                           FB(S)

CD                           BPD

GK

 

 

 

[Snorks]

On 21/01/2018 at 09:14, Keyzer Soze said:

Hi, 

Little question regarding the Mezzala, and the PI to run wide with ball. 

If we have the Mezzala, playing with support role, and on the same side of the pitch a winger in the AMR position, would the Mezzala and the winger be in some conflict if we set the PI to run wide with ball? 

Depends on the winger duty. 

I have Mez and IF/S - the Mez is like a ball-carrier for me, on an Attack duty he will take the ball to the Winger space while IF cuts into the box. I also have that side FB on Attack. Opens up heaps of space on he other side of the pitch.

[stevecummins78]

This is how I'm making it work

[Armistice]

Hey, I'm looking for a brief explanation if possible and if my judgement is correct. Basically I use a 4-3-3 at Leeds and I'm looking to have an attacking IF on the left and I chose an attacking Mezalla on the right CM spot hoping he would get into positions an IF would when he gets forward. A false IF if you want.  In AMR slot I employed a winger, who'll hopefully make the opposition's fullback mark him and leave his defensive shape so the Mezalla can exploit the space between LCB and LB. Add to this combination a F9 who will hopefully drag another CB out of position and we should create good enough space for my Mezalla to attack and get in goal scoring positions. So far I've noticed my Mezalla on attack doesn't get forward too often, not sure if it's the player I employed or I have wrong expectations from the role. I see a CM-A get forward more than a Mezalla so I was wondering if a Mezalla is hardcoded not to go forward as much as a CM-A for example.

[Jyuan83]

@Armistice I like the way you have structured your tactic in terms of allowing space and visualising the attacking play for your mezzala. From what I observe, the mezzala tend to move around like a playmakerish sort of role, so it may not really aggressively attack the box like you would expect it to be. However if the amr is a winger on attack he may enter the box and take away space from a marauding mezzala. So that is an issue to consider.

[Armistice]

3 minutes ago, Jyuan83 said:

@Armistice I like the way you have structured your tactic in terms of allowing space and visualising the attacking play for your mezzala. From what I observe, the mezzala tend to move around like a playmakerish sort of role, so it may not really aggressively attack the box like you would expect it to be. However if the amr is a winger on attack he may enter the box and take away space from a marauding mezzala. So that is an issue to consider.

Good point, that's probably why I noticed the CM-A push more than the Mezalla, since he's got that Roam from Position PI locked in, he's probably not always going to get into the box; the winger is on support duty.

[YasoKuul]

My preferred formation is the 4-1-2-1-2 narrow diamond and used it a lot with two Carrileros and offensive full-/wingbacks. I haven't used the Mezzala role so far but the description sounds very interesting and I would like to try them out.

I already know that they're mostly used in 3 man midfields. Could I use them in a 4-1-2-1-2 narrow diamond or in a narrow 4-1-3-2 as well?

My idea is to have an AMC as focal point in the middle, two strikers ahead and both Mezzala (support) would assist as half wingers. The two CD, a DMC and two defensive full-/wingbacks should protect the back. 

[Isaac jojo]

I see a lot of mistakes here,the mezzala and the (IF) position don't affect each other at least in a very fluid shape with them reading each other's position on the field...to my observation and loads of saves , when the mezzala runs wide the inside forward moves in narrow regardless of whether you set him to stay wide  .

I mostly use an iwb to fill the midfield position of the mezzala who is ready to make a combo play with the winger of inside forward and I instruct the wingers or inside forward to stay wide because the mezzala is already playing in that narrow position .

I love the mezzala position ,when the winger is stuck with a hard core full back the mezzala makes an underlap that removes the defender providing a cross for the tap in.

I replicated peps last season 100 points tactics on fm18, went the whole season almost unbeaten...I'll post the tactic later ..still new to this community stuff

About the iwb stuff ,the mezzala always tends to go out wide or move into channels leaving space in the midfield that was why pep choose to play with iwb to fill there midfield roles .

When you check most of David Silva and de bruynes goals and assists , you'll see what am talking about.. YouTube.

[Isaac jojo]

The carrilero to my observation without the get further forward instructions, he plays like a normal playmaker only that he has a defensive mind set to protect the wide areas in both defense and offense if used with the right shape

An example is kovacic in sarris Chelsea because of Marcos alonsos aggressive movement narrow and wide , kovacic is charge with the duty of protecting his back only that sometimes kovacic is given the get further forward instructions

A very not noticeable example is Liverpool's keita and milner ,they operate in the half's spaces like mezzalas ,they do combo plays on the wing but they also protect the wide areas because of Liverpool's high full back positions ..

It's called positional rotation which isn't available on fm18 at Least..just watch there games you'll understand better..morphing between two positions 😍😈

[craiigman]

@Cleon @Rashidi What do you make of FM19's default formation for the Gegenpress 4231 having a Carrilero?

[Atarin]

On 04/06/2018 at 15:28, Jyuan83 said:

@Armistice I like the way you have structured your tactic in terms of allowing space and visualising the attacking play for your mezzala. From what I observe, the mezzala tend to move around like a playmakerish sort of role, so it may not really aggressively attack the box like you would expect it to be. However if the amr is a winger on attack he may enter the box and take away space from a marauding mezzala. So that is an issue to consider.

 

On 04/06/2018 at 15:35, Armistice said:

Good point, that's probably why I noticed the CM-A push more than the Mezalla, since he's got that Roam from Position PI locked in, he's probably not always going to get into the box; the winger is on support duty.

I've found that if you want that direct penetration inside one of your wingers its better to use a CM(a) or a B2B(s) and make sure they have the PI's 'Get Further Forward' and 'Move into Channels'. The Mezzala is more "floaty".

[Rashidi]

20 minutes ago, craiigman said:

@Cleon @Rashidi What do you make of FM19's default formation for the Gegenpress 4231 having a Carrilero?

I do like the carrilero i use it in a lot of my own formations where i want to control midfield without overexposing them too much. And choosing the right player can have a massive impact on your game. Player traits are huge in FM, so i find that this role is perfect. Depending on the player i use, i can have a player attacking like eden hazard and defending like busquets. So it really depends on how good people are at pairing a player to a role and how they want it played in the game. That last part is usually the biggest issue people have.

[craiigman]

13 minutes ago, Rashidi said:

I do like the carrilero i use it in a lot of my own formations where i want to control midfield without overexposing them too much. And choosing the right player can have a massive impact on your game. Player traits are huge in FM, so i find that this role is perfect. Depending on the player i use, i can have a player attacking like eden hazard and defending like busquets. So it really depends on how good people are at pairing a player to a role and how they want it played in the game. That last part is usually the biggest issue people have.

I thought that the Carrilero shouldn't be used when you have wingers though? At least that was the general feedback most people get when they use them in such systems?

[Rashidi]

huh? i use it when i have no wingers, when i have wingers...its all about the role and how it operates. It plays in the zone between the boxes, so its perfect to hold control of an area. It really depends on what you want the role to do, and how you have it playing in your system. 

A carrilero is an effective guard because he is always there when you need him, so if your wingers are going MIA in attack, I know the Carrilero will be patrolling the area. Now the issue most people have is they ALMOST always choose the wrong player. So what attributes would you go for in a carrilero?
 

[Cleon]

2 hours ago, craiigman said:

I thought that the Carrilero shouldn't be used when you have wingers though? At least that was the general feedback most people get when they use them in such systems?

The Carrilero doesn't fulfil its proper duty when used with a winger because of the hardcoded behaviours. It works but the role doesn't work as intended in parts. However I believe all roles have had slight improvements for FM19 according to the videos. So maybe wait until you play it to see how all the behaviours have changed compared to FM18.

[Experienced Defender]

5 minutes ago, Cleon said:

The Carrilero doesn't fulfil its proper duty when used with a winger because of the hardcoded behaviours. It works but the role doesn't work as intended in parts. However I believe all roles have had slight improvements for FM19 according to the videos. So maybe wait until you play it to see how all the behaviours have changed compared to FM18.

I think it works pretty well with wingers in AM strata, as in 4123DM Wide or 4231. At least I haven't noticed any problems thus far 

[Cleon]

9 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

I think it works pretty well with wingers in AM strata, as in 4123DM Wide or 4231. At least I haven't noticed any problems thus far 

With all respect, most of you dont even know what the role does or is supposed to do. It was the role I tested solely during the development of it in the last beta. Myself anD herne have valuable feedback about how it behaved and had some massive bugs/ behaviour issues fixed before any of you got to see the game. So I know what I’m on about when I say the role doesn’t function how it is supposed to when coupled with wingers on FM18. It makes the Carr act strangely at times.

Don’t mistake this as saying it can’t work though or people don’t have success with it. By using wingers you can turn it into a CM A attack of some kind very easily and he’d be high up. Rashidi more or less touched upon this above. 

It would seem it worked great then if you see them contributing to attacks, making surging runs and so forth. But that’s not what you’re supposed to see from the role at all.

I believe for FM19 we won’t have an issue though.

[herne79]

2 hours ago, Cleon said:

Myself anD herne have valuable feedback about how it behaved and had some massive bugs/ behaviour issues fixed before any of you got to see the game.

Haha I'd forgotten that.  Man that was funny how it originally looked .