Official Football Manager 2015 Feedback Thread 15.1.3

[hluraven]

Just wondering if anyone has seen someone get booked for timewasting? Just lost a game(don't mind that in the slightest) but their goalkeeper took 30 seconds to take a goal kick and there were no subs being made.

Never in FM history, I don't think it's coded to be possible.

[Dagenham_Dave]

Being booked for timewasting should have been a feature introduced the minute they introduced the 'time wasting' instruction whilst playing on 'contain'. Hopefully see it in future versions.

[hluraven]

Being booked for timewasting should have been a feature introduced the minute they introduced the 'time wasting' instruction whilst playing on 'contain'. Hopefully see it in future versions.

Agreed, but it used to take over a minute to get the ball back in play when first introduced, 10-30 seconds now is much quicker! I remember 5 minutes of injury time expiring by the throw in taker taking about 90 seconds to throw the ball in, then it was headed back out, 90 seconds wait, headed out, 90 second wait, full time in FM12(ish).

[Thunda]

No matter the version .. FM still delivers when it comes to the Dog & Duck .. The poorest team in the league gets dominated in a game but then, when they "need a goal or three", they turn into a team of superstars and Messi would struggle to get in their team.

It often makes you wonder - if they could play like this "when they need to" - why aren't they top of the league? They're 3-0 down with 10 minutes to go and their manager shouts out "Come on Bazza - the booze should be out of your system by now - get the lads playing will ya"?

Bazza gives a little knowing nod. Stamps out his fag, puts his bottle of White Lightening down and rallies the lads. It's time for the Dog & Duck to change their shirts to the claret and blue stripey ones they usually wear.

"It's your tactics" .. No it isn't. I have a set of perfectly solid defensive tactics that can see me go to teams 1 or 2 divisions above me in cup games and put in solid defensive displays. Though not top of the league, I have the best defensive record in the division. The Dog & Duck in this example is second bottom of the table and averages 0.6 goals per game. They've lost 9 out of 10 away games.

It's actually the "Opposition needs 3 goals in 10 minutes and there's nothing you can do to stop it" ... errm, let's call it a feature .. that's been part of FM since god-knows when. It used to manifest itself in the 4-2-4 that the AI used to always switch to. Now it's more subtle but the result is the same.

But it's not just the Dog & Duck that turn into Barcelona feature that's the problem. No. It's also the "home team playing solid football with better players and winning 3-0 with 10 minutes to go who suddenly all turn into a team of drunken monkeys" feature that's at play to.

Suddenly, your team can't pass the ball to a free man 5 yards away. They've been doing it all game (their 80+% passing accuracy shows that) but because Bazza has put his fag out, you're players suddenly can't make a simple 5 yard pass to a team mate under no pressure, yet instead, pass it 5 yards from him and then see him just look at it while an opposition player runs from nowhere to "intercept" it and have a free on goal. How does that work?

Suddenly, you're 6'4" defender is going for headers and missing them completely and seeing the ball sail over to the speedy winger, somehow left unmarked in 10 yards of space (dunno where there FB is - it certainly isn't in his instructions to be chatting up the girls in row Z - so why is he doing little dances in the oppositions half when he has a defend duty?), to burst through on goal.

Why does the other CDef with his 17 acceleration and 18 pace suddenly start running through treacle while the 10 / 7 striker leaves him for dead chasing a hoofed ball over the top?

And it all happens with absolutely zero feedback from the game as to what's changed. Forget the Ass Manager as it stands - waste of time - he's still telling me guff he was telling me in the first minute of the game about us dominating. But why can't he tell me something useful like .. "Hey gaffer - they've changed their shirt colour" .. or if the game would actually reflect the changed shirt colour in game .. tell me " .. they've gone short passing" .. "they've upped the tempo" .. "their winger has started playing as an inside forward" .. or ... "Our big solid defender who wins every header he goes for has suddenly sprouted hair, is making funny noises while staggering around with a bottle of vodka in his hand wanting to sing Angels on the Karaoke and is trying to shag your mam."

THEN I might be able to make the changes necessary.

As it stands, once again, SI have produced another Rock-Paper-Scissors version of footy manager where you just have to blindly guess as to what's changed because you get no feedback whatsoever.

SI - for about the 8th year running I've said this - if you can't accurately reflect what's going on in the match engine, can you PLEASE incorporate a proper feedback system next version and not waste resources on making sure players get dirty shorts when it's raining.

[Malachians]

You speak of realism and you just said in a previous post you keep reloading games.

I reloaded it to see if the same thing would happen over and over again, not because I wanted to win.

[Dagenham_Dave]

I reloaded it to see if the same thing would happen over and over again, not because I wanted to win.

But you still reloaded and presented your finidings as unrealistic. Apart from anything else, how do you know? In what real life event has what you done ever happened for you to deduct whether or not that happening is 'realistic'.

Answers on a postcard to Marty and Doc.

[Cougar2010]

As it stands, once again, SI have produced another Rock-Paper-Scissors version of footy manager where you just have to blindly guess as to what's changed because you get no feedback whatsoever.

Watching on extended highlights I have no problem identifying what is happening on the pitch.

Your problem isn't that there is no feedback but that you are failing to recognise that feedback.

[Bennio]

@Thunda. Actually it is your tactics. I always used to find a more defensive minded tactic to counter the AI 4-2-4 gung ho tactic. It was then a sure win for me, because I usally ended up scoring 1 or two more goals extra. Its the same this version though I sometimes must ride my luck on this one. Not that cut and dry as they seem to mix it up. The key is to have diffrent tactics to respond to diffrent match situations. A lesser team that scores creates a momentum, just as in real life. As a Tottenham fan I know this happens all to often in real life to. Be proactive and protect your leads. Have a set of tactics instead of relying on just one.

[BW40]

I think once all of the issues with FM15 are ironed out, and we all play happily ever after winning trophy after trophy and seeing player after player make an unbelievably frustrating ****-up

SI should release a limited edition T-Shirt with the slogan 'It's your tactics..' on the back:lol:

I know its off topic, but where else could I put it:thup:

[Hit the upright]

In my opinion real life changes of tactic are overstated and much of what happens in game is prearranged, so teams know what to do to close out matches or how to respond when a goal down without having to be given specific instruction in game. Something for SI to implement in the future maybe. I myself tend to use one of three starting formations; I play counter attack or control and very occasionally attacking with them. In game I have two simple switch left or right flank formations which involves only a couple role and positional player changes to minimise disruption to my team shape and I use those to unbalance the opposition or look for where they are weak defensively.

[Romanista.]

are there any plans to fix the tactics screen? its simply terrible and keeping me from playing the game(still on my first save in preseason). on previous versions i could see 22-23 players without needing to scroll. now i need to scroll to see my first picked substitute.

[DazRTaylor]

In fairness, it isn't THAT serious. I mean, it doesn't cause the game to stop, or actively stop you from playing it (unless you have OCD apparently).

That is harsh mate. OCD is a known and recognised medical condition.

[DazRTaylor]

are there any plans to fix the tactics screen? its simply terrible and keeping me from playing the game(still on my first save in preseason). on previous versions i could see 22-23 players without needing to scroll. now i need to scroll to see my first picked substitute.

Whilst it hasn't stopped me playing, it is a terrible screen compared to FM2014. Please bring the old one back!

[Sussex Hammer]

It might possibly be your tactics but I've a sneaky feeling it's more likely to be your perceptions football management is for glass is half full types, you're more a glass is half empty and most of that is froth type

On the subject of Andy Carroll, he ceases to be Andy Carroll the first time you press continue, from that point he's just a sprite which started with Andy Carroll's attributes.

One reason I always start in a country and league where I know nothing about anybody is to avoid unconscious preconceptions, it means my game is imagination induced fun rather than frustration fuelled anger at what my mind tells me should happen.

You are right Kriss, I am a pessimist at heart but it makes it all the more rewarding when I win a Cup!! You have to admit though sometimes pre season can give you a false sense of security, plus surely even an overflowing glass of optimism like yourself must admit that Andy Sprite Carroll's injuries are a tad much!!

[Thunda]

And .. there we go .. the same response for the last 8 years ..

The point is being missed. I lay it out as simple and best I can.

I'm 2nd in the league .. 3rd best Goals For .. Best Goals against ..

The Dog & Duck .. 2nd bottom in the league .. 3rd worst Goals For .. 8th worst Goals Against.

I usually start off Attacking at home against teams like this .. They set up defensively .. 442 vs 442 ..

By 80 minutes .. I have 21 shots, 12 on target .......... They have 1 shot, 0 on target .... I lead 3-0.

On 80 minutes (maybe 81) .. I sense they've changed their shirt colour to the Claret & Blue variety because .. .. they've had another shot. I change to my defensive 442 to see out the game.

In the next 10 minutes, the 2nd worst team in the league, with the 3rd worst attack has 3 further shots, 3 on target .. score 3 goals .. against the best defence in the league. In return, I have 0 shots, 0 on target, 0 goals and a team full of drunken monkeys who suddenly can't pass a ball 5 yards.

To put that in perspective - the 3rd worst attack in the league scores 20% of their seasons goals in 10 minutes vs the best defence in the league who are set up in their best defensive set up for the last 10 mins. And all because "they need a goal or 3" in a proper match environment, with the match engine and not simulated in the background.

It's been proven over the course of the season so far, not to mention this game, that it is a "better" attack than 22 other teams in the division. In this game, my "best attack" has shown conclusively to be better than their "best defence" (as poor as it is) .. The season also shows their "best attack" is the 3rd worst in the league ..

So even if I stayed in my attacking formation for the full 90 minutes .. and then they went attacking - I would be confident that my "Best Attack" vs their "Best Attack" would likely see ME score more than them given that they'd also be up against the Best Defence in the league and I have the better players all round.

Ask yourself a question : What would Man City hope for in a game against Burnley at the Etihad? Burnley parking the bus or Burnley playing all out attack? Who would you put your money on to score most goals in any given 10 minutes?

When the team who has been playing defensive for 80 minutes and conceded 3 goals in that period open up in the last 10 (very debatable many, if any, teams would - but that's another topic) - then even if .. EVEN IF .. I continue with my attacking tactic .. my 2nd Best Attack in the league and my Best Defence in the league should "win" against the 2nd Worst Attack / 8th worst Defence in any given 10 minutes. i WANT them to open up ..

"Ahhh" .. you might say .. "but your attack tactic isn't concentrating on defence, so it leaves your team open"

And that's the point. My Best Defence In The League might be open when I'm attacking.

But then, so is the 8th Worst Defence in the league.

Yet somehow, when the 2nd Best Attack / Best Defence - attacks .. and the 3rd Worst Attack / 8th Worst Defence - Attacks .. over a 10 minute period .. The Dog & Duck wins 0-3.

Only in FM.

Now before somebody comes back with "well, in 1983 blah blah blah" .. You'll find that most examples of comebacks to that extent come from games that are closer than the score suggests .. 50/50 games where one side has took their chances and the other hasn't (until the comeback) .. and normally come about over a period of time longer than 10 minutes.

To repeat : By 80 minutes .. I have 21 shots, 12 on target .......... They have 1 shot, 0 on target .... I lead 3-0.

It's not even a competition.

----

Part of the problem (again, something I've brought up repeatedly over the years) is the Psychology of players. How many times do you hear commentators / pundits say "When you have had the defensive mindset for so long in a game, it's so difficult to completely switch that around and go looking for a goal" ... Not in FM .. As soon as a manager (Player or AI) switches from a defensive setup to an attacking mentality - it happens instantly .. no adjustment .. no players "forgetting" they are no longer on the defence .. no confusion in the interpretation of what manager is shouting from the sidelines .. (and me in the other tactical area not actually hearing what he's shouting .... Feedback) ..

Yet in FM, it's an instant switch and all previous instructions / mentalities are instantly forgotten about. When a defence has had a deep line for 80 minutes, for example, it's actually difficult for them to adjust and start playing a higher line - certainly if they've been battered for 80 minutes .. they are reluctant to step up .. afraid even ..

How many times do we see a team playing deep despite their manager screaming at them to push higher up? And they don't.

Yet in FM .. "Yep, no problem boss - should we start playing like Barcelona now too?"

[Kriss]

You are right Kriss, I am a pessimist at heart but it makes it all the more rewarding when I win a Cup!! You have to admit though sometimes pre season can give you a false sense of security, plus surely even an overflowing glass of optimism like yourself must admit that Andy Sprite Carroll's injuries are a tad much!!

Pre season is an indication of zilch I'd sell Carroll just because of his haircut, let alone his delicacy

[Cougar2010]

You really aren't getting it Thunda are you

The match itself is always evolving and you need to react to what is happening on the pitch. 442 isn't really a good formation to defend with either IMO especially when the opposition have players running between the lines, you need to learn how to shut down the match so when you are 3-0 up with ten minutes to go you can see it out nine times out of ten.

You are also wrong on the psychology and this is easily seen on the pitch and via the widgets. If the opposition nick a goal back then depending on their personality the players will suddenly look more determined and confident while doubt can creep into the mindset of your own players.

Yes the managers give the orders and instructions but the players attributes/morale/personality determine how they are carried out.

Rather than blaming the game you should be looking at your own decisions and how to improve them.

[edgar555]

Pre season is an indication of zilch I'd sell Carroll just because of his haircut, let alone his delicacy

Yep. If pre season counted for anything then Gio dos Santos at Spurs would have been Balon d'or winner twice at least. I miss that guy.

[Thunda]

You really aren't reading my posts are your Cougar? No, you have your belief and you'll just carry on regardless.

What part of my replies don't you understand? I'll keep it simple in my repetition :

I have a number of defensive set ups that see's me having the best defence in the league (as I do with all my saves in all versions of FM going back to year dot) that I switch to and from when necessary .. In that game, for example, I changed from 442 to 451 Counter before they scored their first goal (I recognised that suddenly something had changed - the Dog & Duck had become Barca)

And you're right .. 442 isn't the best to defend with either ..

Yet the AI can all-out-attack with a 442 with the 2nd worst team in the league, 3rd worst attack in the league and the 8th worst defence in the league, and it's as solid as a rock and 3 goals in 10 minutes better against the best attack in the league / 2nd best defence when it's in it's best defensive set up .. Go figure, huh? Why the hell aren't they top of the league?

Stop flag-waving for the game and thinking it's a perfect representation of football .. it isn't and it never will be .. and anybody who has ever been involved in real-life football can spot that in 2 minutes. Instead, take on the feedback and make changes to make it more realistic.

[Hit the upright]

You really aren't getting it Thunda are you

The match itself is always evolving and you need to react to what is happening on the pitch. 442 isn't really a good formation to defend with either IMO especially when the opposition have players running between the lines, you need to learn how to shut down the match so when you are 3-0 up with ten minutes to go you can see it out nine times out of ten.

You are also wrong on the psychology and this is easily seen on the pitch and via the widgets. If the opposition nick a goal back then depending on their personality the players will suddenly look more determined and confident while doubt can creep into the mindset of your own players.

Yes the managers give the orders and instructions but the players attributes/morale/personality determine how they are carried out.

Rather than blaming the game you should be looking at your own decisions and how to improve them.

I have to say that never seems to work for me much of the time, better to change tack to something offensive that the opposition have trouble adjusting to. Shutting up shop tends to lead to giving away procession and a siege mentality, I certainly find that a safer and more effective way of closing out games is to keep the opposition unsettled, doesn’t always work either but it would make for a dull game if it did.

[Cougar2010]

I have to say that never seems to work for me much of the time, better to change tack to something offensive that the opposition have trouble adjusting to. Shutting up shop tends to lead to giving away procession and a siege mentality, I certainly find that a safer and more effective way of closing out games is to keep the opposition unsettled, doesn’t always work either but it would make for a dull game if it did.

As the saying goes attack is the best form of defence and its certainly a viable option IMO.

[Cougar2010]

You really aren't reading my posts are your Cougar? No, you have your belief and you'll just carry on regardless.

What part of my replies don't you understand? I'll keep it simple in my repetition :

I have a number of defensive set ups that see's me having the best defence in the league (as I do with all my saves in all versions of FM going back to year dot) that I switch to and from when necessary .. In that game, for example, I changed from 442 to 451 Counter before they scored their first goal (I recognised that suddenly something had changed - the Dog & Duck had become Barca)

And you're right .. 442 isn't the best to defend with either ..

Yet the AI can all-out-attack with a 442 with the 2nd worst team in the league, 3rd worst attack in the league and the 8th worst defence in the league, and it's as solid as a rock and 3 goals in 10 minutes better against the best attack in the league / 2nd best defence when it's in it's best defensive set up .. Go figure, huh? Why the hell aren't they top of the league?

Stop flag-waving for the game and thinking it's a perfect representation of football .. it isn't and it never will be .. and anybody who has ever been involved in real-life football can spot that in 2 minutes. Instead, take on the feedback and make changes to make it more realistic.

Whats clear is that you've already buried your head in the sand and have your own idea of what football is leading to your insistence that your opinion is the only correct one

PS I've worked in RL football albeit at an amateur & junior level for many years.

[themadsheep2001]

I have to say that never seems to work for me much of the time, better to change tack to something offensive that the opposition have trouble adjusting to. Shutting up shop tends to lead to giving away procession and a siege mentality, I certainly find that a safer and more effective way of closing out games is to keep the opposition unsettled, doesn’t always work either but it would make for a dull game if it did.

As the saying goes attack is the best form of defence and its certainly a viable option IMO.

I prefer sterile possession myself, force them to come at me and then pick them up. I win a considerable number of games by patiently waiting for a 1-0 lead, then scoring a flurry of goals as they push forwards and my side pick them off.

[Thunda]

It's not a bug, Alex .. it's a fundamental design flaw .. .. it's been there since day 1 and has often been brought up on these forums yet never gets addressed .. Jeez .. it took 5 years before something as obvious as regens got sorted out, so I'm not holding my breath ..

Simply - there isn't anywhere near enough feedback available to compensate for the match engine not being able to accurately portray what's going on .. people need to know about the oppositions tempo, their mentality, closing down, passing .. basically, they need to "see" the oppositions team / player instructions (masked, possibly, based on the players Tactical rating). Stuff that is obvious when watching a real life game, yet can't be accurately portrayed by the match engine.

Secondly, more impact of player psychology. For instance, if a team has been battered for 80 minutes and is 3-0 down on a rainy Tuesday in December - it's fair to say that many of their players heads will have dropped .. and they aren't suddenly going to start playing like Barca for the last 10 minutes just because their manager says Pretty Please.

[Thunda]

Whats clear is that you've already buried your head in the sand and have your own idea of what football is leading to your insistence that your opinion is the only correct one

PS I've worked in RL football albeit at an amateur & junior level for many years.

Why can't I tell my players to ALWAYS hit high balls to my 7 foot striker up front, regardless of what other option they may have?

Oh that's right .. because it's not real football. In real football, I can tell them to do what I want.

What it is is a whole load of maths going on in the background with a million and one variables. I can live with that. But sometimes, those variables go wonky or are wonky from the start. I'd rather as many of those wonky variables get put right .. so for instance, just because the other team takes on an attacking mentality, I'd rather my super fast defenders didn't suddenly start running in treacle because of the behind the scenes slider positions of my team and the AI - point it out if I'm wrong, but I can't see the "don't run in treacle" option in the team instructions.

So how do I solve that? One of the goals was down to a defender running in treacle when he had a 5 yard start on the forward who's acceleration and pace are half my player? Line was relatively deep, not playing offside or anything silly .. One hoof from their keeper, my player ran in treacle, theirs didn't. Goal!

It's easy to say "it's your tactics" - probably right, but all anybody can see is a fast defender, with his laces tied together, running in treacle.

A 5 yard pass, no pressure on the passer or the player receiving the pass .. pass goes 5 yards stray .. guy who should have received the pass just moonwalked on the spot, watched the loose ball and the opposition player who was 10 yards behind him, run past, pick up the ball and hit a 25 yard screamer into the top corner (I never checked his Long Shots, maybe I should ) .. In real life, 30k voices would have shouted Man-On .. In FM, nah - just moonwalk and let them score. Like with treacle, I don't see any moonwalking options in the Team / Player instructions.

Now I accept, it's a game .. it has to do funny things at times to make what we see on screen match the calculations under the hood .. but when it DOES resort to doing silly things, it shows the match engine isn't accurately representing what actually was calculated .. so hence we need .. FEEDBACK. Is that really too much to ask?

[Hit the upright]

I prefer sterile possession myself, force them to come at me and then pick them up. I win a considerable number of games by patiently waiting for a 1-0 lead, then scoring a flurry of goals as they push forwards and my side pick them off.

I try to always play procession football anyway. On another note offside decisions are bugging me at the moment; obviously linesmen get it wrong some of the time and the game should reflect that. However, the game should give me the option to berate the officials after the game and replays of both offside if it results in a disallowed goal and penalty incidents should be in the highlights without having to rewind the game. I'm still bothered by the woodenness of highlights, absolutely every game I see a defender jump for a ball and miss whilst the attacker just simply runs on to the ball it never happens the other way and far too many chances come after defenders or GKs wander around ignoring a loose ball.

[RTHerringbone]

Now I accept, it's a game .. it has to do funny things at times to make what we see on screen match the calculations under the hood .. but when it DOES resort to doing silly things, it shows the match engine isn't accurately representing what actually was calculated .. so hence we need .. FEEDBACK. Is that really too much to ask?

All SI need to ask is that the crappy looking, laces tied together, running in treacle examples are uploaded to the Bugs Forum to enable them to iron out the issues.

They are absolutely not bugs that are forced in to the game to balance anything - they are bugs. No more. No less.

[themadsheep2001]

I try to always play procession football anyway. On another note offside decisions are bugging me at the moment; obviously linesmen get it wrong some of the time and the game should reflect that. However, the game should give me the option to berate the officials after the game and replays of both offside if it results in a disallowed goal and penalty incidents should be in the highlights without having to rewind the game. I'm still bothered by the woodenness of highlights, absolutely every game I see a defender jump for a ball and miss whilst the attacker just simply runs on to the ball it never happens the other way and far too many chances come after defenders or GKs wander around ignoring a loose ball.

Change the replay to goal action, it shows that.

[jc1]

To all mods, could you please ask Dagenham Dave to be less sarcastic with his replies, people come on here to ask questions and all they get from him is a cheeky smart arsed comment, not needed in my opinion.

[RTHerringbone]

To all mods, could you please ask Dagenham Dave to be less sarcastic with his replies, people come on here to ask questions and all they get from him is a cheeky smart arsed comment, not needed in my opinion.

Compare his infraction numbers to yours - Daggers gets his comeuppance quite often

[Hit the upright]

Change the replay to goal action, it shows that.

Thanks but why doesn't extended highlights do that.

[Thunda]

All SI need to ask is that the crappy looking, laces tied together, running in treacle examples are uploaded to the Bugs Forum to enable them to iron out the issues.

They are absolutely not bugs that are forced in to the game to balance anything - they are bugs. No more. No less.

I'm not saying they are "balance" issues or bugs .. it's the match engine just not being able to portray a game of football 100% accurately. The running in treacle, a defender suddenly missing easy headers to allow strikers a free run at goal, players moonwalking instead of reacting to threats, Super-keepers of old etc etc etc ..

IMO they are just symptoms of two opposing tactics going head to head with no easy way to reflect what went on to bring about a chance or goal that has been predetermined in the nano-seconds prior to the particular passage of play that we see. IF what we saw in the match engine was "live" - like in Pro-Evo or FIFA, then we could possibly say they were bugs - but what we see is just a representation of calculations that have already be made. They generally mean there IS a flaw in your tactics and, in that moment, running in treacle, for example, is the only way the ME can represent it. As such, the player manager is left non-the-wiser as to what or where the problem is - all he sees is a defender running in treacle.

[RTHerringbone]

I'm not saying they are "balance" issues or bugs .. it's the match engine just not being able to portray a game of football 100% accurately. The running in treacle, a defender suddenly missing easy headers to allow strikers a free run at goal, players moonwalking instead of reacting to threats, Super-keepers of old etc etc etc ..

IMO they are just symptoms of two opposing tactics going head to head with no easy way to reflect what went on to bring about a chance or goal that has been predetermined in the nano-seconds prior to the particular passage of play that we see. IF what we saw in the match engine was "live" - like in Pro-Evo or FIFA, then we could possibly say they were bugs - but what we see is just a representation of calculations that have already be made. They generally mean there IS a flaw in your tactics and, in that moment, running in treacle, for example, is the only way the ME can represent it. As such, the player manager is left non-the-wiser as to what or where the problem is.

No. They are bugs

Some cases, where defenders miss headers are legitimate and fine. The running in treacle thing is something SI are looking at. It's actually a real technical challenge to overcome that is way, way more than just a representation problem.

[Hit the upright]

No. They are bugs

Some cases, where defenders miss headers are legitimate and fine.

I could live with that if

1. It didn’t happen at least once in every game to one side or the other.

2. It’s always defenders who jump and miss never attackers, they just run onto the ball.

3. Its never both players as you might expect.

4. it always results in a goal attempt and

5. Whether it is or isn’t in reality it nevertheless looks scripted because of 1,2,3 and 4.

[Cougar2010]

Why can't I tell my players to ALWAYS hit high balls to my 7 foot striker up front, regardless of what other option they may have?

Oh that's right .. because it's not real football. In real football, I can tell them to do what I want.

IRL you can ask players to do lots of things but I guarantee that when out on the pitch they will not do it all the time and its unrealistic to expect them to either IRL or in FM.

[Loversleaper]

I can't remember if it has been mentioned - but there is a serious problem with free kicks... A lot of the times several players seem to stand in offside positions inside the opposition's penalty area waiting for the kick resulting in the inevitable offside whistle...

[jc1]

Compare his infraction numbers to yours - Daggers gets his comeuppance quite often

And I got mine by having a few choice words with him due to his lippy answers

[RTHerringbone]

I could live with that if

1. It didn’t happen at least once in every game to one side or the other.

2. It’s always defenders who jump and miss never attackers, they just run onto the ball.

3. Its never both players as you might expect.

4. it always results in a goal attempt and

5. Whether it is or isn’t in reality it nevertheless looks scripted because of 1,2,3 and 4.

Please log examples demonstrating 1, 2, 3, 4 or 5 to the Bugs Forum them please, because you seem to have some experience of the issue.

[HaroldHammond]

............................. the very same day.... (read down news)

[Thunda]

IRL you can ask players to do lots of things but I guarantee that when out on the pitch they will not do it all the time and its unrealistic to expect them to either IRL or in FM.

Yet when a manager tells a team to go all out attack the last 10 minutes, they do it without flinching and do exactly what they are told despite being stuck in a defensive mentality for the previous 80 minutes .. which is the exact point I'm making.

Now what teams can do is just pump balls into the box and hope something drops - which you see often but is not really productive and rarely successful - the odd time, maybe - but rarely 3 times in 10 minutes .. but changing their entire mentality and playing style to a fast attacking in your face style of football where they cut through a previously impregnable defence with impunity just because the manager changes tactics from "park the bus", is not realistic and rarely happens - their entire mentality has been stuck in "park the bus" mode for 80 minutes, they've been battered to hell and are 3-0 down .. in real life, players aren't robots (or little blocks of AI controlled pixels) .. yet in FM, drastic changes in mentality like that happen instantly and without any confusion from the players.

A 15 minute team talk at half-time CAN change a mentality from 1 extreme to the other .. but a "go all out attack now, lads" shout from the touchline rarely changes things to the extent you see in FM. Again, players aren't robots - yet in FM, they can easily switch from one thing to another way too easily.

[SynergyIso7]

hello, I'm trying to update the game, I am playing .1.3 version and I can't find Martin Odengaard in my game. How do i update?

[Cougar2010]

Yet when a manager tells a team to go all out attack the last 10 minutes, they do it without flinching and do exactly what they are told despite being stuck in a defensive mentality for the previous 80 minutes .. which is the exact point I'm making.

Now what teams can do is just pump balls into the box and hope something drops - which you see often but is not really productive and rarely successful - the odd time, maybe - but rarely 3 times in 10 minutes .. but changing their entire mentality and playing style to a fast attacking in your face style of football where they cut through a previously impregnable defence with impunity just because the manager changes tactics from "park the bus", is not realistic and rarely happens - their entire mentality has been stuck in "park the bus" mode for 80 minutes, they've been battered to hell and are 3-0 down .. in real life, players aren't robots (or little blocks of AI controlled pixels) .. yet in FM, drastic changes in mentality like that happen instantly and without any confusion from the players.

A 15 minute team talk at half-time CAN change a mentality from 1 extreme to the other .. but a "go all out attack now, lads" shout from the touchline rarely changes things to the extent you see in FM. Again, players aren't robots - yet in FM, they can easily switch from one thing to another way too easily.

I think you are misunderstanding mentality with instructions.

In FM the AI manager might give more attacking instructions, examples could be giving the fullbacks more freedom to push forward or playing more direct balls forwards. How well that succeeds depends how your team adapts to this change. If its successful and the AI team start to get possession/shots etc then it boosts their player's confidence to some degree. If you shut them down and don't give them a sniff then confidence is still low and they rarely threaten.

If you set your team & tactics up well then the extremes you keep talking about should rarely happen. Looking back at my saves over the last few versions I could show you plenty of examples where I shut teams out on a regular basis.

Its about understanding your team and what they can do, understanding the opposition and making the right choices. As has been pointed out by others going defensive isn't always the right choice, there are other options such as keeping on attacking to keep the opposition on the backfoot or controlling possession and playing keep ball.

[Thunda]

You can help iron out those flaws by posting in the bugs forum. Football produces many opinions & if you take the time to put yours forward in a constructive manner in the match engine forum then they will be listened to so long as you evidence your position with examples from matches. Posting in here that you believe the match engine to be flawed is fine & there is no requirement for you to take it any further but that does mean there is always a chance that your specific issues will not be picked up by anyone else because they do not share your opinion.

Out of interest what view & highlight mode do you watch the matches in?

To be fair, Alex - I've been banging on about this for years. Again, I don't see it as a bug or match engine problem, it's a football psychology problem / game related problem. Read my above post about shifts in mentality .. in real life, it never ever happens as easily as it does in FM. Simply put : a touchline shout (or even a series of them) is never and should never be as effective and / or immediate as a pre-match tactical plan or, to a lesser extent, a half-time reshuffle .. Why spend a week working on match preparation if you can instantly switch to a completely different way of playing, mindset, mentality - with all intricate instructions included - and have the players carry it out perfectly to your wishes without any confusion, with a few shouts from the touchline? It doesn't work like that and nor should it.

Yes, teams CAN change mentality and little tweaks here and there can have an impact and nullify certain threats from the opposition or expose a weakness, but entire shifts in tactics, or shifts from from one extreme to the other, that completely negates the opposition offensive / defensive tactics in one instantaneous swoop is not realistic.

I'll finish off with a theoretical example given already : Man City vs Burnley .. Burnley park the bus for 80 minutes, yet still find themselves 3-0 down after being battered .. firstly, would Sean Dyche suddenly tell Burnley to switch into all-out-attack mode for the last 10 minutes to "try and get a result"? Highly highly unlikely - but that's another discussion. But if he did, would Pellegrini say : "OMG! Burnley have gone all Barca on us - we'd best switch to 4-5-1 defensive and grind this last 10 minutes out!!"?

In FM you ALWAYS have to do that when the Dog & Duck go into Barca mode. If you carry on regardless, like what good teams do against the poor ones, you get tagged back. If not all the way, but certainly it's squeky bum time.

I've had games where I've been leading 7-0 (with TNS is the Welsh leagues where after a season or two, you're players are so far ahead of the opposition it gets boring), the opposiiton have switched to Barca mode for the last 10 or 15 minutes, and without changing tactics (so bored, I couldn't be bothered) games have ended up 7-3 or 7-4 .. psychologically speaking, it's just not realistic but the goals come about because of treacle runners, moonwalkers and defenders ducking under headers .. They haven't done any of those things the previous 80 minutes but only when the opposition have switched to Barca mode.

----

Highlight mode - mostly Extended, but Comprehensive in "big games".

[Thunda]

It's back to a computer game and game football argument. A professional footballer who plays central defense, for instance, shouldn't have to look to the touchline for instructions when an opposition team suddenly starts being more direct. If he needs to, he needs booting out of the club. He does the right thing automatically - even the "poor" ones. He trained and played that role his entire life - he doesn't need to be told how to defend against a team who's switched to a more direct game.

Yes, a rampaging full back might need to be told to curb his enthusiasm - but, if (in FM parlance) he's in a support role, he should be clever enough to say "oh hang on, I'd better hang back a bit more" without being told to and will nullify certain threats auto-magically without the managers input. It's football positional basics. if he is still rampaging forward (or if he holds back but the manager wants him to still push on) then instruction is necessary. Again, we're back here to lumping every pass to a 7 foot tall striker - as you rightly said, players will make a judgement in real life regardless in what the manager says. Yet in FM, that rampaging fullback suddenly needs baby-sitting.

In real life, a defense under constant pressure will - without any manager input (or despite it) - gradually drop deeper and deeper .. it's not tactical, the manager is screaming at them to push up, yet they won't. They might a little bit, but will drop off again. The risk / reward part of their brain is telling them that it's safer to drop off ("backing off from a threat") no matter what the manager is telling them. Only the truly strong minded defenders can hold the line.

Yet in FM - you or the AI tells them to have the defensive line here or there, they'll stick to it religiously. And this is the point I'm making all through this .. Players are not robots. They can't or won't do exactly what they are told to do. They won't fully understand. They'll misinterpret. They'll say "sod that". They'll make their own judgement based on their skill and experience. Their mental state will dictate what they do or don't do. A team battered for 80 minutes will very very rarely switch into Barca mode just because their manager asks them to. When heads drop they don't come back up easily. And if they do, they won't do it exactly like the manager asked let alone have the actual skills necessary to do what they are being asked.

Yet the Dog & Duck can do it as soon as their manager clicks his fingers. And that's not realistic.

[Cro-cop]

first of all, sorry for my english....

So i was playing with hajduk split 4 seasons, and had to leave because every match i had to make at least 2 subs because players got injured (not knocks but injured).

I report it and got answer it is because of my tactis, match fitness or pitch condition...it's not my tactics because i always play the same way and never have that

problem before or after, it's not match fitness because i never send player to play with less than 90% match fitness, so the only posibbility is pitch condition,

but again almost every game I had 2 or more injuries, it's not like that in RL...

I accept the job at Feyenoord and i'm now in the second season there, and there is few ridiculous situations...I just lost in the first game of the 2nd knockout round against monaco 1:2 and i can win the league in next match, and i did just that...in the interview after match they asked me how do i feel after winning Europe League with team like Feyenoord (something like that), and 2 questions after the asked me "Are you i dissapointed for being knockout from EL against Monaco" (still have to play one game against monaco)...but this doesn't bother me a lot...

Just one day after we won the league 3 of my key players are unhappy because i didn't let them go to play for other teams, but no offers came to my club...they got offers in january but I refuse them and promise them CL, and i kept that promise by winning the league...so my team wants to talk to me because I didn't let them go, team moral is now very low because of stupid bug and i need to sell those players, key players because of the bug....

[auduron]

Re: setting opposition instructions.

Anyway to move the options (Tight Marking, Closing Down, etc) CLOSER to the players name to that we don't have to keep an eye on the player and then carefully look across the screen? I know there are 2 interchanging shades, however they are fairly similar in color and makes it hard.

[NotONYourNelly]

Don't know what to make of this really but..

Currently in my 5th season.

Apparently the most reputable club on my save is Porto.

Benfica have won every single division title since my save started. Porto have never got past the last 16 of the champions league. Haven't won any Europa Leagues, haven't made any marquee signings. Are 12th on the Rich List, with their league sitting at 6th

So how basically.

For the second year running they are the most reputable club.

[Svenc]

In real life, a defense under constant pressure will - without any manager input (or despite it) - gradually drop deeper and deeper .. it's not tactical, the manager is screaming at them to push up, yet they won't. They might a little bit, but will drop off again. The risk / reward part of their brain is telling them that it's safer to drop off ("backing off from a threat") no matter what the manager is telling them. Only the truly strong minded defenders can hold the line.

That's an interesting thought actually. Taking it further, complete tactical changes can be made a huge number of times during a match with ease (whether that is helpful is another thing). However, your general observations about teams turning into "Barca" by an (AI manager's) click of his finger tips I cannot relate to. Firstly, the game tracks a player's and teams' motivation, which changes accordingly to dynamic match situations (refereeing decisions, fouls, individual error, most importantly, goals) and can depend on player's personalities (see the body language feedback). Unless there is a bug, most teams getting "tonked" are at a severe disadvantage at that point. If the effect of morale are handled similarily to match prep training and similar (they likely are), they cause a dynamic boost/hit directly to players' attributes.

However none of those cause attributes to change wildly. Secondly, all the instructions in FM are encouragements. Just because anybody clicks "overload" (or even "attack") doesn't mean he'll get to witness countless of highlights in the coming minutes (in particular in isolation, as player roles and duties and general positioning don't change itself via just changing the "strategies", the result might well be an opponent gifted balls coming his way and nothing at all happening anymore until the final whistle's blown). There will be more risk involved, and more forward passes and pushing in general, which is something else completely. But the worse team trying to do so won't suddenly run circles around the winning team just because. Wich means: There are no buttons that puts any AI team into "Barca" mode. There can and could be issues with the motivations being bugged however, if this really persists and isn't merely a mind playing tricks on you (FM is that kind of game where perception bias can cloud sensible analysis). With sides essentially being finished at that point, this isn't comparable to a battered side occasionally growing in confidence as long as they still persist the bombardment (and increasing their chances to hit a lucky punch), which FM tries to simulate too.

There have always been fishy theories about how the match calculation actually works, some of the worst offenders including the game calculating a gore is scored and then the engine drumming up a arbitrary sequence of animations to suit a result, essentially getting it all in reverse. The official word is though, and I have never seen anything that would support otherwise, is that from kick off it's a sequence by sequence thing in chronological order, and naturally, right from the first pass, even reloads will play out differently. So there might be something to it, however I have a hard time imagining a side getting tonked suddenly turning into "Barca", unless the dynamics that naturally follow such a simulation would cause an unintentionally huge boost to the side getting tonked every once in a match (there are players that actually react fierce and motivated after being a couple goals down, but evenso, as with any boosts, the effect of that isn't anywhere near to that degree). That you could class as bug though.

[Gribster]

couldnt find a thread, but is anyone concerned about the amount of goals that come from right hand side crosses?

I was reading about creating tactics and a guy said most of his goals were coming from the right

I play 4 3 3 (narrow 3 cm's 3 fc/st) and a serious amount of my goals are coming from right hand side crosses, albeit I have my right back on 'wb/attack'

Whats the consensus, expolioty or just chance

[henri.melo00]

Just don't make patches after Beta, FM 14 was better on Beta, FM 15 was better on Beta. It's a consensus that Beta is the best FM version you can provide in the last years.

Or make a way for who wants to reverse to a previous version, it would be perfection.

And look a little for lower league players, don't make a game that works different for those trying to play with Liverpool for then trying to play with Corby Town.