Football Manager 2014 - Update 14.2.2 - Feedback Thread

[petergoddard]

Time wasting and less risky options.

I think less risky options is about mentality, time wasting is about urgency. That's why I'm trying to work out something reducing the the risky options but at the same time keeping a high urgency (lower time wasting). This was easy to accomplish in fm13, but I can't find a solution in fm14.

[BiggusD]

I think less risky options is about mentality, time wasting is about urgency. That's why I'm trying to work out something reducing the the risky options but at the same time keeping a high urgency (lower time wasting). This was easy to accomplish in fm13, but I can't find a solution in fm14.

An attacking strategy is urgent. Work Ball into Box, Retain Possession, Lower Tempo will reduce the players' willingness to try through balls, crosses and shots.

A Counter strategy is patient. More Direct, Higher Tempo will increase urgency while their mentality will remain rather low so they won't try too risky stuff.

No idea if any such tradeoff will work well, though. There are certainly many other ways of balancing urgency and risk/reward. A very rigid setup with few Attacking duties and no playmakers might work, for instance?

[petergoddard]

An attacking strategy is urgent. Work Ball into Box, Retain Possession, Lower Tempo will reduce the players' willingness to try through balls, crosses and shots.

A Counter strategy is patient. More Direct, Higher Tempo will increase urgency while their mentality will remain rather low so they won't try too risky stuff.

No idea if any such tradeoff will work well, though. There are certainly many other ways of balancing urgency and risk/reward. A very rigid setup with few Attacking duties and no playmakers might work, for instance?

That might do the trick... the problem is that retain possesion decreases the urgency (more time wasting).

Why did these guys removed the time wasting instruction ? damn!!!

[Dagenham_Dave]

Why did these guys removed the time wasting instruction ? damn!!!

The 'time wasting' instruction is still there. You need to be on 'contain' to activate it.

[tieio]

The 'time wasting' instruction is still there. You need to be on 'contain' to activate it.

Or Defensive, it is there for defensive too.

[petergoddard]

The 'time wasting' instruction is still there. You need to be on 'contain' to activate it.

It might have a little importance that Contain or Defense affects everything on the players, on the team, defense line, etc, etc, don't you think ?!... and that time wasting instruction only allows me to increase it, not to reduce.

[Ackter]

Doesnt happen then much.

and team meetings are a waste of time, only option i have was win the league, once a player says "not ambitious enough" there is no option other then take a load of bad reaction.

Scott, do you ever report any of these things in the bugs forum?

[Svenc]

It might have a little importance that Contain or Defense affects everything on the players, on the team, defense line, etc, etc, don't you think ?!... and that time wasting instruction only allows me to increase it, not to reduce.

It makes perfect sense to have a "time wasting" option only for the defensive end of the mentality/strategy strata. This previously lead to confusion. The German fan translation of the game went one step further and got rid of a "time wasting" instruction altogether in favor of a "time spent on the ball" slider which later was replaced again. Though obviously the damage wasn't huge, as the effects were subtle, I thought this to be capable of doing harm and confusion, as it completely went against what was officially documented, and neither will there be official support nor documentation in Germany for the game for some time to come due to licensing issues. Upon official request I was confirmed that the setting was never about anything else than what it says on the tin: increasing the likelihood of there being time wasting incidents to frustrate an opposition and run down the clock: players taking ages over set pieces and throws, running with the ball towards the corner flag, playing corners short and holding the ball, etc. plus: dawdling on the ball.

If you take a look into the events.cfg of the game where all the match commentaries are stored, you'll see lines for the latter, such as "player xy is dawdling on the ball to wast time/wind down the clock". That probably was the main culprit why some people tried to utilize it as an attacking urgency modifier. You'll even find specific events for which there are multiple lines, one of it meant for situations in which time wasting has backfired onto a team: "Team xy have been caught out after wasting time! They'll regret not putting the game away when they had the chance". Players will usually only waste time if they feel there is no risk and pressure, thus, why would you encourage them to waste more time in order to reduce shots? Shots are firstly attacking decisions, and secondly not made deep, where there is usually no pressure. Why would you encourage a side to waste more time in reasonably aggressive strategies? That was the confusion of yore, coupled with a slider that allowed to adjust "time wasting" in notches of like 1023874. What you're looking for is slowing down the tempo. And that is open for any mentality/strategy. "Tempo" was previously also affected by the "retain possession" shout you mentioned as opposed to time wasting, so is likely still the case with the current team instructions.

[Dagenham_Dave]

You know you're struggling with the game when halfway through the season, your team has fewer points than the team in the 'Saviour Cometh' challenge has at the beginning of the challenge.

[RTHerringbone]

Time wasting and less risky options.

That's not correct.

Fewer Risky Passes reduces through balls and instead encourages players to pass to feet.

Time wasting is what it says. Players will delay set pieces and throw ins, and generally run the clock down.

EDIT - Svenc does a good job differentiating between time wasting and tempo above. That is the crux of the posters' issue - misinterpretation of an instruction.

[stevemc]

Would you rather they rushed it and perhaps made it worse?

Like the last patch?

[CityAndColour]

Like the last patch?

[themadsheep2001]

Like the last patch?

You not liking the patch =/= rushed patch. More to the point its not coming out before they are happy about it, no matter how much you post it. So what you/I/others do in the meantime is up to the individual, but it's fair to say sitting round posting about how much you want it is probably a waste of time... so let's get this back on some remotely constructive feedback *turns attention back to the job that actually pays him*

[g_peter]

It makes perfect sense to have a "time wasting" option only for the defensive end of the mentality/strategy strata. This previously lead to confusion. The German fan translation of the game went one step further and got rid of a "time wasting" instruction altogether in favor of a "time spent on the ball" slider which later was replaced again. Though obviously the damage wasn't huge, as the effects were subtle, I thought this to be capable of doing harm and confusion, as it completely went against what was officially documented, and neither will there be official support nor documentation in Germany for the game for some time to come due to licensing issues. Upon official request I was confirmed that the setting was never about anything else than what it says on the tin: increasing the likelihood of there being time wasting incidents to frustrate an opposition and run down the clock: players taking ages over set pieces and throws, running with the ball towards the corner flag, playing corners short and holding the ball, etc. plus: dawdling on the ball.

If you take a look into the events.cfg of the game where all the match commentaries are stored, you'll see lines for the latter, such as "player xy is dawdling on the ball to wast time/wind down the clock". That probably was the main culprit why some people tried to utilize it as an attacking urgency modifier. You'll even find specific events for which there are multiple lines, one of it meant for situations in which time wasting has backfired onto a team: "Team xy have been caught out after wasting time! They'll regret not putting the game away when they had the chance". Players will usually only waste time if they feel there is no risk and pressure, thus, why would you encourage them to waste more time in order to reduce shots? Shots are firstly attacking decisions, and secondly not made deep, where there is usually no pressure. Why would you encourage a side to waste more time in reasonably aggressive strategies? That was the confusion of yore, coupled with a slider that allowed to adjust "time wasting" in notches of like 1023874. What you're looking for is slowing down the tempo. And that is open for any mentality/strategy. "Tempo" was previously also affected by the "retain possession" shout you mentioned as opposed to time wasting, so is likely still the case with the current team instructions.

Thanks Svenc :-) I was aware of the very helpful german translation.

My question is not about shots bit about all players actions. And my idea is not to have more time wasting but less, although without risky actions. For this I have to, one hand, to use a higher mentality / strategy (less time wasting / time spent on the ball) but for less risky actions, on the other hand, I have to use a lower mentality / strategy. My option would be a higher mentality and then use some instructions to reduce the risk, but I'm afraid that will increase also time wasting.

[Tot]

Refs are far too lenient in this game. Same player commits foul after foul and no yellow. No yellows for cynically bringing down players on the break. Tackling is completely overpowered to the extent that strikers are invariably successful in any tackles. Tackling success rates frequently exceed 70% and 80%. The highest in the Premier league matches this weekend was 62% and the average was less than 50%. The match engine is not simulating tackling in a realistic fashion.

This, definitely this, was only thinking this last night while playing. Prime example was a match v Sunderland, pretty much every other highlight was Cattermole chopping down one of my players, ref coming over, "strict talking to". He got about 5 of these talking to's but no card. Then i bring on Diame on 72mins to sure up my midfield, 75th minute he's booked for his very first foul, a nothing tackle in the centre circle. Quite frustrating.

[stevemc]

You not liking the patch =/= rushed patch. More to the point its not coming out before they are happy about it, no matter how much you post it. So what you/I/others do in the meantime is up to the individual, but it's fair to say sitting round posting about how much you want it is probably a waste of time... so let's get this back on some remotely constructive feedback *turns attention back to the job that actually pays him*

I didn't say I didn't like the patch? It has issues, but I didn't say I didn't like it.

Milnerpoint was suggesting that "rushing" could make the patch worse.

Some of the issues in 14.2 (Corners, Goalkeepers, OG's etc) seem higher in 14.2 than before, therefore, using Milnerpoint's logic, could suggest that the 14.2 patch was rushed, because certain area's have worsened.

Just to be clear, I don't dislike the patch (I've had more game time on this patch, than any other), have never said that, but I do believe improvement is needed.

[Svenc]

My question is not about shots bit about all players actions. And my idea is not to have more time wasting but less, although without risky actions. For this I have to, one hand, to use a higher mentality / strategy (less time wasting / time spent on the ball) but for less risky actions, on the other hand, I have to use a lower mentality / strategy. My option would be a higher mentality and then use some instructions to reduce the risk, but I'm afraid that will increase also time wasting.

I think you might be overcomplicating things a tad? Looks like you're looking for a level of very specific micro management that likely is not in the game, could that be?

However, the German fan translation was way off the mark, that is why it had changed for ca. FM 2013, when that slider was still around. It was specifically argued that "time wasting" de facto had nothing to do with "time wasting" as you think of it whatsoever (hence players were advised they were micro tweaking a neutral "time spent on the ball" with the slider before players making a pass/decision, as argued, caused by the ME event that makes players occasionally dwell on the ball "to run down the clock"). Which was completely wrong, as it lead to tactical advice that told players to decrease "time wasting" on hard away days with the logics being that players would get rid of the ball earlier and not get caught in possession (and increase it for home games so that players would build up play with patience). It was very warped, obviously, as firstly players usually don't hold onto the ball to waste time when pushed, and secondly it lead people to apply the slider in the exact opposite ways players being provided an official translation and manual did (who were likely to try and frustrate on harsh away days and grind out a result by encouraging what was, after all, time wasting, and vice versa in home matches), that is why it was removed. And now it doesn't matter much anymore either way.

[teodoro]

Stopped playing game!

I can not see and accept that the Chievo won the Serie A....

What folly!!

[Dagenham_Dave]

Stopped playing game!

I can not see and accept that the Chievo won the Serie A....

What folly!!

You'll have to accept it though. Assuming this has happened in the initial season in your game, the developers have made it so that a human player can win a national title of any league in the first season with a smaller club as various posts with screenshots have shown (for example, there's been people who have led Newcastle, Southampton and Fulham (!?) to a title in the first year). It's a separate debate as to whether that is right or not.

Therefore if it's possible for human players to achieve this, so it is for the AI. Can't have it both ways. Unrealistic? Sure, but that's the trade off I'm afraid.

[forameuss]

What folly!!

But as Dave says, if this wasn't possible, then it would mean it wasn't possible for the human manager to do it either. You can't have one without the other.

[Beestonite]

Ha! Brilliant.

[teodoro]

You'll have to accept it though. .....

Thanks for advice, but i can not....

It 's an outrage at logic and common sense.

Chievo does not have money, skilled players and the resources needed to achieve this result.

What would you say if the Cardiff (AI controlled TEAM) won the premiere division?

In previous versions there were no issues like this.

[jon157uk]

The only own goal I've conceded this season was this pearler, goalkeeper in full gymnastics mode, comedy central...

[video=youtube;6O8GQU5hjZY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6O8GQU5hjZY

Brilliant that Dave, it's about as daft as the one I posted of the centre back/goalkeeper mix up.

[Dagenham_Dave]

Thanks for advice, but i can not....

It 's an outrage at logic and common sense.

But presumably if you were the manager of Chievo when they did this, that would be fine?

[Lawlore]

Dave, it'd be like Greece winning the European Championships, ahead of Spain, Italy, Portugal, Holland, Germany and Wales. Just not realistic at all. ;-)

[Dagenham_Dave]

Dave, it'd be like Greece winning the European Championships, ahead of Spain, Italy, Portugal, Holland, Germany and Wales. Just not realistic at all. ;-)

Or Scotland qualif....

Too far.

[Tot]

But presumably if you were the manager of Chievo when they did this, that would be fine?

Here ultimately lies the issue. When the computer do it, it's an outrage, a broken game, SI should be burnt to the ground etc etc, but when it's achieved by the player, it's a great feat of managing, solely down to the player, could never happen without them etc etc. Can't go both ways.

[Dagenham_Dave]

Here ultimately lies the issue. When the computer do it, it's an outrage, a broken game, SI should be burnt to the ground etc etc, but when it's achieved by the player, it's a great feat of managing, solely down to the player, could never happen without them etc etc. Can't go both ways.

Exactly.

In actual fact, I agree with the poster's base point. I don't think it should be possible for Chievo to win Serie A in the first season. And by that I mean both AI and human controlled. That represents a flaw in the game IMO. However, that's the road SI have gone down, and I can understand why. I just find it funny when people moan about Stoke finishing in the top 4, etc, whilst leading Fulham into the Champions League.

[forameuss]

Here ultimately lies the issue. When the computer do it, it's an outrage, a broken game, SI should be burnt to the ground etc etc, but when it's achieved by the player, it's a great feat of managing, solely down to the player, could never happen without them etc etc. Can't go both ways.

But...but...but...super keepers?! AI getting better transfers?! It's so unfaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaair

As usual, the things only get complained about by the vast majority when they fall against you. It would be interesting to see how many bug reports were raised on the back of the player benefiting. I'm sure there are some, but they'd be in the minority.

[Johnyfooty]

Dave, it'd be like Greece winning the European Championships, ahead of Spain, Italy, Portugal, Holland, Germany and Wales. Just not realistic at all. ;-)

Don't know whether that is much of a comparison though, because the championship has much less games, so an upset is just that. Plus the draw can be favourable. Sure, Spain kinda f-ed up on groups, but Greece never played with Italy or Germany, because they f-ed up on groups as well.

Then Portugal knocked out England and Holland, two great upsets for Greece. Greece knocked out France, a favourable upset for Portugal and so on.

It's not the same for a whole league, which is based on points and means you can't count on other to completely knock out teams for you (not directly at least, you can hope they keep them back on points, but that's it.)

Although I'm happy that Chievo won the league,I love these upsets. But it's not the same.

[Linkoping]

Just curious and not trolling but is a 14.3 expected at all at any point? After January window?

[forameuss]

Just curious and not trolling but is a 14.3 expected at all at any point? After January window?

Yes. Some point in March after all transfer windows are shut. Or when it's ready.

[RTHerringbone]

Just curious and not trolling but is a 14.3 expected at all at any point? After January window?

This was posted on the 10th:

Quick update.

Firstly as ever thanks to all those who have provided constructive criticism, as this is invaluable to us and appreciated.

There will be another ME update, probably with 14.3 when the data is updated. So far we have worked on the following:

- Goalie errors. We have identified a few that lingered around and will hope to get any remaining ones zapped for this cycle.

- Headed clearances. We identified issues with trajectory and direction and the fixes are now in test. Affects no of goals just after corners and also own goal count.

- Corners. We are still working on this. Main issue now is there are slightly too many of them at top levels.

- Ball physics. No changes planned for this cycle. There are definitely further improvements to be made but we believe it's in a decent state overall for the time being.

- General. We want to improve the individual play of the very best players slightly and this is a work in progress right now.

There are other bits and pieces too of course.

Cheers,

Paul

[richardh2136]

Yes. Some point in March after all transfer windows are shut. Or when it's ready.

seriously as long as March?

I understand its a stretch to say the game is unplayable, it obviously isnt. But so many of these issues are such big turn-offs im really struggling to get enthused about playing it at all at the moment. Particularly set-piece defending, its just appalling.

Lesson learned for next years version i guess. dont buy it until its already been out 6 months. save some cash and miss out on the many wasted hours trying to minimise the affect of the ME problems on my teams performances.

[tieio]

seriously as long as March?

I understand its a stretch to say the game is unplayable, it obviously isnt. But so many of these issues are such big turn-offs im really struggling to get enthused about playing it at all at the moment. Particularly set-piece defending, its just appalling.

Lesson learned for next years version i guess. dont buy it until its already been out 6 months. save some cash and miss out on the many wasted hours trying to minimise the affect of the ME problems on my teams performances.

Yep, and play the previous season version until the newest one is fixed or even grab the new version when it goes on Steam sale and save even more money, all of these things are options to you.

[forameuss]

seriously as long as March?

I understand its a stretch to say the game is unplayable, it obviously isnt. But so many of these issues are such big turn-offs im really struggling to get enthused about playing it at all at the moment. Particularly set-piece defending, its just appalling.

Lesson learned for next years version i guess. dont buy it until its already been out 6 months. save some cash and miss out on the many wasted hours trying to minimise the affect of the ME problems on my teams performances.

It's a finger-in-the-air estimate. They might release one tomorrow, it might not even be March. But what we do know is that there will be a data update after all transfer windows shut. Russia stays open until the end of February I think, so for FM13, the final update was released mid-March IIRC. They probably don't want to support two different updates, so I imagine the ME and other fixes will be lumped together.

And all of the above could be complete rubbish - there will be a patch when there's a patch.

[g_peter]

I think you might be overcomplicating things a tad? Looks like you're looking for a level of very specific micro management that likely is not in the game, could that be?

However, the German fan translation was way off the mark, that is why it had changed for ca. FM 2013, when that slider was still around. It was specifically argued that "time wasting" de facto had nothing to do with "time wasting" as you think of it whatsoever (hence players were advised they were micro tweaking a neutral "time spent on the ball" with the slider before players making a pass/decision, as argued, caused by the ME event that makes players occasionally dwell on the ball "to run down the clock"). Which was completely wrong, as it lead to tactical advice that told players to decrease "time wasting" on hard away days with the logics being that players would get rid of the ball earlier and not get caught in possession (and increase it for home games so that players would build up play with patience). It was very warped, obviously, as firstly players usually don't hold onto the ball to waste time when pushed, and secondly it lead people to apply the slider in the exact opposite ways players being provided an official translation and manual did (who were likely to try and frustrate on harsh away days and grind out a result by encouraging what was, after all, time wasting, and vice versa in home matches), that is why it was removed. And now it doesn't matter much anymore either way.

I might be not sure but I have admit the possibility. I don't know if I'm looking for something that, as you said, doesn't matter much anymore.

The thing is that with the same save I'm managing two very different teams: FC Porto, main contender in the portuguese league, and Boavista FC at the III division (currently II division after being champions). I'm at the 3rd season, three with FC Porto and two with Boavista, and with FC Porto we've won 2 titles, 3 supercups, 1 cup and 1 league cup and reach in both seasons the semi-finals of Champions League. With Boavista I've found quite easy to win the III Division Title and although the press forecasted a 19th place (out of 22) for the II Division, we are currently at the 1st place and still competing both in cup and league cup. Two different teams, two different tactics and what I think I can call two stories of success.

So, considering this how can I post my frustration ? I guess my deepest frustration regarding this year edition of FM is the step that was made regarding the new tactical system. SI have conditioned us all to play into their own logic of football, introducing a very rigid system that only facilitates success if you play by their logic... and it's a british game, so it's a british logic. This is very frustrating and also very wrong, mainly because the game allow us to manage a team in a great variety of countries and each one, in each league the logic / idea / style / philosophy of football is different, so it's obvious that the game should allow us (as it did in previous editions) to set our own logic. Possession based style is highly damage in this edition: not that it's a problem to have possession (like 65-70% or more) but either you have this high possession or you have results. Wanting both is kind of an impossible mission.

Then we have the specifics:

a) it seems SI looked into the main European leagues and concluded that even the top teams end the championship with an average of 1 goal against / match (a kind of 38 matches played / 38-45 goals against). No matter what, your top team will have this average or close to. Completly irrational because 1) why can't I have the tactical and strategical freedom to achieve a lower average ? 2) most European leagues are not as competitive as the top leagues (portuguese league is not) so it's rather common to see top teams at minor competitive leagues to achieve lower averages... for SI it is not;

b) FM13 had a few on / off instructions: if, for instance, I would need the all structure of a DLP but without the hold the ball instruction that was just fine, I would just switch off the instruction. Now I can't! I have to choose a completly different role in order for that player doesn't hold the ball... and a different role is a different structure, with higher or lower mentality, with higher or lower CF and it will have deep implications in my style of playing.

Like I said, I have no problems with winning and with two different teams, so I can't say my frustration comes from lack of results... but my frustration has a lot to do with SI defrauding my expectations because I can win but only in SI terms and logic. And football has nothing to do with logic!!!

Finally, by other frustration is to look into a game that has evolved a lot, that in spite of lots of bugs still makes me vibrate during matches but still lacks things that are basics:

a) Shout instructions to motivate players simply doesn't exist: if my player is complacent, I can't do nothing;

b) Defending throw-ins set piece instructions doesn't exist

I guess at least these two should be very simple to introduce, although I would consider that by now it should be a reality to set tactical instructions when your team have and doesn't have the ball.

[Beestonite]

Here ultimately lies the issue. When the computer do it, it's an outrage, a broken game, SI should be burnt to the ground etc etc, but when it's achieved by the player, it's a great feat of managing, solely down to the player, could never happen without them etc etc. Can't go both ways.

While I agree with this theory in principal, I can also see the point the Gentleman (has to be using 'folly') is trying to make. Yes, if we are able to win the league at the first attempt with an average team then why not the AI.

But, here is my argument against that. If we were to simulate the leagues with no users whatsoever playing, personally I'd expect Juve to win the league in Italy, Barcelona or Madrid in Spain and on of the 'top four' in England to succeed. It's what the game should replicate because of the skill levels in different teams etc etc. Now the fact that we as users can intervene and take the game off on a tangent by taking over an average team and take them to the title is completely different to what the AI should be doing. AI can't think like a human. The game is surely designed to replicate real life until we as users come along and f*** it up (for lack of a better phrase).

In time the game may evolve so that a new power in Italian football comes along and wins the league, but not straight away, or even in the first 5 seasons. User interaction is completely different compared to how I would expect the AI in the game to behave. We're humans, completely random input. AI is calculations and theory etc.

Just my take on it.

[giventofly77]

Quick update.

Firstly as ever thanks to all those who have provided constructive criticism, as this is invaluable to us and appreciated.

There will be another ME update, probably with 14.3 when the data is updated. So far we have worked on the following:

- Goalie errors. We have identified a few that lingered around and will hope to get any remaining ones zapped for this cycle.

- Headed clearances. We identified issues with trajectory and direction and the fixes are now in test. Affects no of goals just after corners and also own goal count.

- Corners. We are still working on this. Main issue now is there are slightly too many of them at top levels.

- Ball physics. No changes planned for this cycle. There are definitely further improvements to be made but we believe it's in a decent state overall for the time being.

- General. We want to improve the individual play of the very best players slightly and this is a work in progress right now.

There are other bits and pieces too of course.

Cheers,

Paul

So the complete non-existence of goals from direct free-kicks and long shots will not be fixed?

What about players with any kind of injury not being able to pass the medical for transfers, even if they're out with a cold for two days and the window shuts before they're back from "injury"?

This game has been a mess from the start, got a little better, and is now unplayable (when 15 of the last 20 goals in my matches come from corners (that's as far as I was bothered to count), and after playing 5 seasons having seen ONE long-shot goal and ONE direct free-kick goal - I'll call it unplayable....what's the point?)

[forameuss]

So the complete non-existence of goals from direct free-kicks and long shots will not be fixed?

What about players with any kind of injury not being able to pass the medical for transfers, even if they're out with a cold for two days and the window shuts before they're back from "injury"?

This game has been a mess from the start, got a little better, and is now unplayable (when 15 of the last 20 goals in my matches come from corners (that's as far as I was bothered to count), and after playing 5 seasons having seen ONE long-shot goal and ONE direct free-kick goal - I'll call it unplayable....what's the point?)

Did you actually read the post you quoted?

There are other bits and pieces too of course.

So given that, and the fact that no-one knows what's going to be in the patch, doesn't that make your toys out the pram moment a bit odd?

[Dagenham_Dave]

What about players with any kind of injury not being able to pass the medical for transfers, even if they're out with a cold for two days and the window shuts before they're back from "injury"?

This is a new one. Have you logged this? I've had lots of transfers go through when players have had short term injuries, so I'm not sure why it's not working for you.

[Rossini]

A few bugs on my game:

1) Defending corners - how many times does your defender head a corner clear, but it goes straight to their player who volleys it into the back of the net? This has happened numerous times with me and also on my brothers save (who has different tactics set up for defending corners).

2) Injuries - I'm 2 games into my second season and I have had a centre midfielder out with knee tendonitis for 7-8 months, 2 key midfielders out with pulled hamstrings and my 2 first choice full backs out. The injuries are unrealistic and way over the top, you pretty much need 3 different squads with strength in depth to compete, but as you can only register 25 players it's impossible!

3) Strikers one on one finishing - how many of these get missed? It's incredible! I have Shane Long and Abel Hernandez up front, who are both 15's for finishing and both have quite high composure stats. I also have Marco Di Vaio and Eduardo who's finishing is 17's for both. All 4 strikers are proven goal scorers yet when it comes to a one on one, I think they are lucky to get a 1 in 10 rate! Also, strikers who are miles wide and go for a ridiculous, unrealistic shot which has no chance of going in winds me up when a cross to an unmarked player for a tap in is a much better option!

4) Players taking too many long range ridiculous shots - even when I put their instructions to "shoot less often", they still appear to take 30-35 yard shots at will which have no hope of going in! I have even told my strikers to shoot less often now because of the ridiculous shots they take when they are miles out wide, but that still doesn't stop them!

5) Dominating games and losing - I can handle this happen a few times, but I would say four fifths of the games I lost in my previous season was with my team having more shots than the opposition and also, more shots on target. This goes back to my players taking ridiculous shots despite the "shoot less often" instruction being set, as I remember one game I had 27 shots with only 4 being on target! However, there are frequently games where I have say, 12 shots on target with a good 50 percent of those being one on ones which my strikers have struck straight at their keeper or their keeper has dived and saved. Yet the opposition have one chance which is usually tucked away with ease by a player who has a poor finishing stat!

I could go on but these are the main things that are annoying me. I'm on version 14.2.1, it's unrealistic, it's incredibly frustrating and it's spoiling my enjoyment. I was hoping by now, the game would at least be running with a hint of realism. But sadly, it's not.

[giventofly77]

This is a new one. Have you logged this? I've had lots of transfers go through when players have had short term injuries, so I'm not sure why it's not working for you.

I think I logged for FM13 actually. It's been bothering me since then (maybe even earlier), I posted about it, but I can't be bothered to do anything more about it.....just take it as another flaw to the game. And to get things right, the latest one that annoyed me was a thigh strain where he was out for about two weeks, not a cold.

[forameuss]

It's been bothering me since then (maybe even earlier), I posted about it, but I can't be bothered to do anything more about it.....

That's the spirit. Let's make sure we get these problems sorted, eh?

[giventofly77]

Did you actually read the post you quoted?

So given that, and the fact that no-one knows what's going to be in the patch, doesn't that make your toys out the pram moment a bit odd?

Depends on your point of view I guess. Sure it's possible that it'll be fixed, but I'm not gonna get my hopes up too high, put it like that..... Meanwhile, I'm back to watching Daniel Sturridge blast yet some more shots over the bar from 20 yds out - his Shoots from long range PPM really is a doozie

[PhroX]

Here ultimately lies the issue. When the computer do it, it's an outrage, a broken game, SI should be burnt to the ground etc etc, but when it's achieved by the player, it's a great feat of managing, solely down to the player, could never happen without them etc etc. Can't go both ways.

The other factor is simple probabilities. What are Cheivo's chances of winning the league? I dunno. Lets say 1 in 100,000 (in truth, the odds will almost certainly be better than this). Pretty darn remote, and it's not going to hapen in real life. But how many seasons of FM have been played by everyone who has the game? I'd be willing to bet that it's more than 100,000. Which means that you'd actually expect some - not many, but some - of those people to experience Chievo winning the league. If one of them is already kinda unhappy with something, then the next thing you know, the game is apparently "broken"...

[forameuss]

Depends on your point of view I guess. Sure it's possible that it'll be fixed, but I'm not gonna get my hopes up too high, put it like that..... Meanwhile, I'm back to watching Daniel Sturridge blast yet some more shots over the bar from 20 yds out - his Shoots from long range PPM really is a doozie

What a miserable outlook to have. Fair enough if you don't believe it'll happen, but to complain about something that hasn't happened yet, based on what you think will happen - nothing more than a guess by the way - is a bit ridiculous. But then I suppose it's the place for it.

[Linkoping]

So the complete non-existence of goals from direct free-kicks and long shots will not be fixed?

I score from DFK's and long shots quite often? Weird that you're experiencing this.

My only complain so far in my long term save would be what appears to be an absolute minuscule amount of penalty calls. I finished 2 seasons now and I think each season I saw maybe 3-4 penalties called TOPS. This includes for me or against me. Most of the time it's against me. The AI seems to be able to slide tackle me in their box without abandon or consequence.

[roykela]

I score from DFK's and long shots quite often? Weird that you're experiencing this.

Same here.

[J P]

My feedback:

Since this update, I have gone from playing the game a lot to barely being able to play a few games in a session. I am taking no pleasure from playing the game but simply frustration. There is no game out there for frustrating you quite like FM and, since this latest update, I have found the frustration levels making it unplayable for me. I am sure there is some pedant that will point out that the game is not unplayable, which of course it isn't, but I personally find the bugs and stupid situations that the ME chucks out so regularly to be so frustrating that I cannot play it.

I have one save that I spent a lot of time playing and I won't let this patch ruin that enjoyment by playing it any longer. I won't be starting a new save for two reasons: firstly, because I want to be able to play the one I was enjoying, and secondly, I can't be bothered to go through all the time and effort of a first pre-season just to watch the same old frustrating things over and over again.

I am sure someone will also be along to tell me that the ME problems affect the AI just as much as me. Fine, but that is not the point. The point is that it is me playing the game, I experience it and not the AI. When the bugs occur and the ME chucks out its ridiculous situations it drives me crazy as there is nothing I, as the player, can do about it. The fact that it can affect the AI equally is neither here nor there as, like most people, I don't play games in a totally removed and rational state of calm, I experience them as someone who wants to be able to affect the outcome and will experience frustration when I know that outcome is decided not by me but by a glitch or a bug.

How a game plays is very very important and when, as a player, you come up against the same annoying/ridiculous situations over and over again it ruins the experience of that game. For now, I have deleted the game and will try not to bother with it until the next update. I know that I probably won't be able to do so but there is one thing for certain, I will not be buying this game at full price at release again as it has been unplayable to me for a large percentage of the time that it has been out. I don't want to pay for something I don't enjoy.

I know it's not technical feedback, that has pretty much been done, but it should be important to know how people experience the game. So far, my experience of this game has not been good and overall I'd rather have the £25 I paid than the game, not something I can say about another FM.