Bertie BG

*OFFICIAL* Blog Feedback - Tactics

169 posts in this topic

[quote name='Eugene Tyson']Allesandro - you don't understand the additional features in the tactics.[/QUOTE]

There aren't any. You could do every single thing in that video in FM11 - it only took a few additional mouse clicks. Not that I don't approve the changes or anything, the interface looks much more professional and well layed out. But the tactics system seems to have remained exactly the same under the hood, which is a shame since it is such an important part of the game and it certainly could do with a few improvements.

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The addition to assign a player a role is a change. Before you had to set the position in the formation and dedicate a role to that position. So putting a DM in the DM slot. If you subbed the DM for a AM you had to fiddle around with the DM role to get it to the AM role. Now if you have Miguel Velosso in the DM role and you sub him for Steven Gerrard, it will use the role you predefined in Steven Gerrards settings and not the DM role defined in the formation.

And the addition of building your own "Shouts" is also new.

How hard is that to understand?

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[QUOTE=Äktsjon Männ;7069893]There aren't any. You could do every single thing in that video in FM11 - it only took a few additional mouse clicks. Not that I don't approve the changes or anything, the interface looks much more professional and well layed out. But the tactics system seems to have remained exactly the same under the hood, which is a shame since it is such an important part of the game and it certainly could do with a few improvements.[/QUOTE]

What would you liked to have seen improved? I would imagine a lot has changed "under the hood", not just a polish of the interface.

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[quote name='Eugene Tyson']The addition to assign a player a role is a change. [B]Before you had to set the position in the formation and dedicate a role to that position. [/B]So putting a DM in the DM slot. If you subbed the DM for a AM you had to fiddle around with the DM role to get it to the AM role. Now if you have Miguel Velosso in the DM role and you sub him for Steven Gerrard, it will use the role you predefined in Steven Gerrards settings and not the DM role defined in the formation.

And the addition of building your own "Shouts" is also new.

How hard is that to understand?[/QUOTE]

Exactly. It took a few more mouse clicks but you could still set Gerrard to play AM. All that's changed in FM12 apparently is the interface.

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No it's not all that changed. You could NEVER assign a ROLE to a player before. EVER. It was a sought after feature for the last 2 years. It is now added.

You said
[QUOTE]There aren't any. You could do every single thing in that video in FM11 - it only took a few additional mouse clicks. Not that I don't approve the changes or anything, the interface looks much more professional and well layed out. [B]But the tactics system seems to have remained exactly the same under the hood, which is a shame since it is such an important part of the game and it certainly could do with a few improvements. [/B][/QUOTE]

And they didn't really get into what's under the hood in the 4 minute preview video. They did show some nice new touches they added. But they didn't exactly go into detail.

Until they do, you cannot say they didn't change anything under the hood.

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[quote name='milnerpoint']What would you liked to have seen improved? I would imagine a lot has changed "under the hood", not just a polish of the interface.[/QUOTE]

I'd like to see many more roles as well as more customisation options within those roles. More refined control over width so that you could for example be compact in defense but still hit the teams down the flanks in attack. Better control over set pieces etc etc. Maybe these improvements are there in FM12 but it seems strange not to indroduce them in a blog dedicated to tactical improvements if so. Have to wait and see I guess.

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[quote name='Eugene Tyson']No it's not all that changed. You could NEVER assign a ROLE to a player before. EVER. It was a sought after feature for the last 2 years. It is now added. [/QUOTE]

It's still only a change in how you interact with the tactics system. I.e an interface change. It won't make any difference if you assign a predetermined role to a player or change it manually through the tactics screen. They'll still perform exactly the same.

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"Create your own shouts" I was very excited about, then I realised it was simply a quick way to combine the shouts already present.

It is a great idea, but we should be able to create OUR OWN shouts from the beginning, not just use the preset ones.

All in all, the amount of clicking looks far reduced and that is great too.

Cheers

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[quote name='Eugene Tyson']The addition to assign a player a role is a change. Before you had to set the position in the formation and dedicate a role to that position. So putting a DM in the DM slot. If you subbed the DM for a AM you had to fiddle around with the DM role to get it to the AM role. Now if you have Miguel Velosso in the DM role and you sub him for Steven Gerrard, it will use the role you predefined in Steven Gerrards settings and not the DM role defined in the formation.

And the addition of building your own "Shouts" is also new.

How hard is that to understand?[/QUOTE]

[quote name='Eugene Tyson']No it's not all that changed. You could NEVER assign a ROLE to a player before. EVER. It was a sought after feature for the last 2 years. It is now added.

You said


And they didn't really get into what's under the hood in the 4 minute preview video. They did show some nice new touches they added. But they didn't exactly go into detail.

Until they do, you cannot say they didn't change anything under the hood.[/QUOTE]

[quote name='Eugene Tyson']I give up.[/QUOTE]

He says you can save player settings, not roles. (still very handy)
The option to 'customise shouts' only allows you to 'customise groups of already existing shouts' and name those groups as you like.

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Love the new interface changes, looks nice and it seems like they will be a lot less clicking and be much more efficient :)

I like the ability to create custom shouts too, and if i understood it right, the ability to set each player with a preffered role and settings.

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A few neat time-saving features here, nothing revolutionary, but the groups of shouts will save a lot of time and stop me making mistakes.

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[quote name='pauly1616']"Create your own shouts" I was very excited about, then I realised it was simply a quick way to combine the shouts already present. [/QUOTE]

Exactly how I feel about it. I like the interface changes that have been made but in order to take the Tactics Creator (which was a ground-breaking addition btw) to the next logical level we need to have the abilities to create TRUE custom roles and shouts.

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I like it! New interface looks clean and user friendly, much improved. The things touched on in the video blog aren't ground-breaking but they seem useful and a good addition.

I do wonder why the player's injury still isn't specified when he picks it up in game. If a goalkeeper has a bruised head, he can play on. If a striker has a sprained wrist, he can play on. But if someone's pulled their hammy I want to know it's a leg injury and bring him off. In FM11 it only says he has a green-cross knock, and it would appear it flashes up in-game on FM12, but still only notifying you he 'has a knock'. Even if it didn't specify the injury exactly, but narrowed it to a category - head, knee, foot - it would make it easier to decide if he should come off or not.

Maybe this is on the cards, I don't know, I'm guessing everything will be explained in a lot more detail soon. I would say first impressions for tactics blog - 7/10. Good improvements, but don't seem to go far enough.

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I am looking forward to this year FM like no other might be the first one I buy on release date normaly wait until the last patch.

I still can't believe how many people are still on about the changing of individual shouts to make custom ones. The shouts do what they say, the only thing you could customise is the name. 'Pass To Feet' is what is says how can it be changed differently. The grouping of shouts is far better and can be customised to suit a different type of play so if your slow, short passing, patient work the ball into box isn't being effect effective then instead of pressing, Get the ball forward, pass to space etc. one by one, you can group it under one shout making it much more fluid which is always a good thing in my book.

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I would like to have a possibility to prepare some options just before the match gets started. For example, if my team concedes a goal, the tactics changes the way I set before the game (e.g. to more attacking-minded). Or if I score a goal, my team tries to waste time automatically. Sorry for my English, hope you understand me :)

And by the way - when is the next blog coming out?

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It's the same thing as FM 11 except it's been re-skinned or had it's position in the UI shifted.

Match preparation was moved from training to main tactics. No actual change.

Philosophy and Strategy again, moved from the advanced screen to the main screen. No actual change.

Changing role and mentality. You could do this already by using the right click on the mouse. No actual change except it's now a specific box. (Probably got feedback people had no idea it existed) on the tactic screen.

Team instructions. Has been split into a specific page. Before you had to click between team and player instructions. No actual change. At 2:02 in the video you can see that all they've done is change what used to be drop-down boxes in the tactics menu (team instructions, player instructions, set pieces, penalties, captains) and split them into their own specific pages. Useful change in the UI, but with no actual change to the game itself.

Player instructions already saved when you switch tactics, as long as you saved before you switched back and forth. No change. [B][I]Unless they have added the ability to save a instructions for each player even if your formation changes. [/I][/B]But I don't think that's what is actually happening.

Shouts is just grouping the exact same shouts as from FM11, and giving the user what they should have been given in the past, information on what the shout actually does.

Minor injury. Another UI change.. if you don't play in 3d, it's pointless.

So basically one actual change in-game (the minor injury screen), and the rest are just UI tweaks.[B] And the physio still won't give you any information about what the actual injury is during the match.[/B]

Sure, a better UI is welcome as is grouped shouts, but this is essentially shuffling the deck. There's no actual change to the tactics engine itself from these videos.

The only new features in this video aren't actually mentioned.

[B]There's two new menus in the main squad screen: Team Meeting and Team Policy[/B]

edit - This sounds negative, but I'm just pointing out what we've been given. I'm looking forward to seeing improvements in the financial, media, board interaction and club infrastructure areas more than tactics.

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[quote name='brt']I would like to have a possibility to prepare some options just before the match gets started. For example, if my team concedes a goal, the tactics changes the way I set before the game (e.g. to more attacking-minded). Or if I score a goal, my team tries to waste time automatically. Sorry for my English, hope you understand me :)

And by the way - when is the next blog coming out?[/QUOTE]

You will be able to do that with the ability to set-up 3 different tactic's they could be all the same formation but with different Mentalities and Instructions

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[quote name='The Welsh Lad']I am looking forward to this year FM like no other might be the first one I buy on release date normaly wait until the last patch.

I still can't believe how many people are still on about the changing of individual shouts to make custom ones. The shouts do what they say, the only thing you could customise is the name. [B]'Pass To Feet' is what is says how can it be changed differently[/B]. The grouping of shouts is far better and can be customised to suit a different type of play so if your slow, short passing, patient work the ball into box isn't being effect effective then instead of pressing, Get the ball forward, pass to space etc. one by one, you can group it under one shout making it much more fluid which is always a good thing in my book.[/QUOTE]

Pass To Feet [I]rather than head[/I]
Pass to Feet [I]rather than into space[/I]

there's two. ;)

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While i like the new layout and options i do think the tactics board could do with a revamp.

Example being i want my 2nd striker to play just off the front man but not in the AM position. Most know that its typically the DLF on support option, but it would be great if it actually showed that his position is just off the front man but not deep enough to be called an AM.

Same thing with other positions. Show the slight position changes on the tactics board so that people can see the difference some options make and so that the tactics screen doesnt seem so rigid and flat (thats how i see the FM tactics screen now) compared to things like the lineups on [url]http://www.zonalmarking.net/[/url].

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Siven, you can tweak the position using mentality, i.e a forward with a lower mentality will play deeper than one with a higher mentality, the downside though is that the mentality also affects the players behaviour on the ball and how conservative or other wise they are in possession.

I agree you should have free reign as to where you you place a player within a set boundary like the fifa tactics screen where you can move the cf about but if you put him too deep he becomes an amc etc

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[quote name='MeesterCat']This sums it up for me really.

Did I read/view it correctly and see that you can save settings to individual players as well as formations? I.e. I have two AML, one left footed, one right footed - I can save the cut inside option for the right-footed one, and hug touchline for the left and the tactics update depending on who I pick?

But yes, the custom shouts looks like the simple addition that can really make a difference.[/QUOTE]

by the sounds of your explanation, it seems that your reading into it that you can save the player tactics against the player. I read it that it is saved against the 'pre-saved' tactics. Which is abit like how it currently works in FM2011.
so if you have a flat 442 and a CM that is attacking, if you then play a defensive 442, that CM turns into a defensive player, regardless of who that player is (position specific). Rather than you being able to save the tactics against the player.

could be wrong though.

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[quote name='postal postie']by the sounds of your explanation, it seems that your reading into it that you can save the player tactics against the player. I read it that it is saved against the 'pre-saved' tactics. Which is abit like how it currently works in FM2011.
so if you have a flat 442 and a CM that is attacking, if you then play a defensive 442, that CM turns into a defensive player, regardless of who that player is (position specific). Rather than you being able to save the tactics against the player.

could be wrong though.[/QUOTE]

I thought it gave you the option to save a role for each player per tactic (x3)... or maybe I read too much into it or wanted too much? It was the opinion I got from watching the blog...

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I just watched it again to make sure and it does look like it only sets the player role per tactic. Not per player has such. So if you were playing 4-2-3-1 DM and decided to change to 4-2-3-1 CM then the roles will automatically change but not if you bring on a AM for a DM in a flat 4-4-2 for instance you would have to change the players role manually.

Thats how I took it, but hey we'll know for definate soon

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[QUOTE=Äktsjon Männ;7069952]I'd like to see many more roles as well as more customisation options within those roles. More refined control over width so that you could for example be compact in defense but still hit the teams down the flanks in attack. Better control over set pieces etc etc. Maybe these improvements are there in FM12 but it seems strange not to indroduce them in a blog dedicated to tactical improvements if so. Have to wait and see I guess.[/QUOTE]

1 - You do realise that there aren't that many roles in football? Any other "role" being played by a player right now that isn't included in the game are only down to invididual instructions from the managers which can be roughly recreated by us now. There are only three aspects of the roles which are arguably capable of being improved. Liberi in the CB position, the Busquets DM role and proper wide FL/FR roles.

2 - That's doable now by changing the width instructions on the player screens. Not ideal but most teams have a main width they play to and then this is changed in-game by the players/roles the manager uses. There's no real team who play with two distinct differences of width between defence and attack.

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[quote name='The Welsh Lad']I just watched it again to make sure and it does look like it only sets the player role per tactic. Not per player has such. So if you were playing 4-2-3-1 DM and decided to change to 4-2-3-1 CM then the roles will automatically change but not if you bring on a AM for a DM in a flat 4-4-2 for instance you would have to change the players role manually.

Thats how I took it, but hey we'll know for definate soon[/QUOTE]
That's what it looked like to me as well. Essentially, it seems to be the system we have now, but with the UI linked to Match Prep.
[quote name='7Bestie7']1 - You do realise that there aren't that many roles in football? Any other "role" being played by a player right now that isn't included in the game are only down to invididual instructions from the managers which can be roughly recreated by us now. [/QUOTE]
But if you overwrite an individual instruction (like mentality), it will stay overwritten if you change your strategy or shouts. Custom roles would help get around that.

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What you really have to do is know your players and their strengths and weaknesses because has we know not every AMC is alike some can take long shots some can't. So before each game you will have to look at your 15 players and decided that I will start with these players playing this tactic, if you have to bring on a more attacking midfielder and you'll need to change the style of play to fit him in. SO when you go into the match you will have you Starting tactic and one or two for the changes in style of play. (So when you bring him on you change the tactics aswell). So all the main instruction work is done before the match starts. I think the problem is that there are only 3 set tactics because on my FM11 save I have about 10 I can choose from, with regards to different players playing in the same position i.e Ashley Young and Stewert Downing both AMLs but different settings. (I know I wont have that problem in FM12, money grabbers lol only joking).

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Disappointed with the fact they dint mention any improvements on the set piece creator

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[quote name='Alessandro133']What widget are you talking about? From fm12 from last video?[/QUOTE]

Sorry, I mixed up my words. I'm talking about the assistant manager feedback during a match, in FM11.

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[quote name='brightonrock']I do wonder why the player's injury still isn't specified when he picks it up in game. If a goalkeeper has a bruised head, he can play on. If a striker has a sprained wrist, he can play on. But if someone's pulled their hammy I want to know it's a leg injury and bring him off. In FM11 it only says he has a green-cross knock, and it would appear it flashes up in-game on FM12, but still only notifying you he 'has a knock'. Even if it didn't specify the injury exactly, but narrowed it to a category - head, knee, foot - it would make it easier to decide if he should come off or not.[/QUOTE]

This is already in the game, sort of. When a player picks up a knock during a match, if you go onto his player profile screen it will say where on the body the injury is. It's not hugely specific: normally something like 'has potential knee injury' or has 'potential upper body injury'. Sometimes it says nothing, in which case there apparently is no injury, which is a little odd but never mind.

It would be good if this information could be added to the assistant manager's feedback to make it more obvious and accessible during the match.

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[quote name='SCIAG']That's what it looked like to me as well. Essentially, it seems to be the system we have now, but with the UI linked to Match Prep.

But if you overwrite an individual instruction (like mentality), it will stay overwritten if you change your strategy or shouts. Custom roles would help get around that.[/QUOTE]

Agreed and if we never had the TC and Role options I would say this was a much needed addition but I don't think it's [i]that[/i] important. Shouts which effect user changes might be a better option but I see the same issue coming up even with those. Namely if there is something that is personally changed from a pre-set, then it's because you want a player to play in a very specific way regardless of the rest of the team's instructions. If I have deliberately told my inside forwards that they can have maximum creativity, regardless of if I am using Standard, Balanced or Attacking, why would I want that changed via the shouts?

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[quote name='dfgrigg']This is already in the game, sort of. When a player picks up a knock during a match, if you go onto his player profile screen it will say where on the body the injury is. It's not hugely specific: normally something like 'has potential knee injury' or has 'potential upper body injury'. [B]Sometimes it says nothing, in which case there apparently is no injury[/B], which is a little odd but never mind.

It would be good if this information could be added to the assistant manager's feedback to make it more obvious and accessible during the match.[/QUOTE]

I know what you mean with this going slightlyoff topic of tactics but I had a player stretchered off and one picked up a knock, had to sub the one carried off but also subbed the one that had a knock has a precaution (in a friendly) after the match in my inbox, the player who picked up a knock was out for 3 weeks whilst the one stretchered off was fine not even out for a day

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[quote name='7Bestie7']Agreed and if we never had the TC and Role options I would say this was a much needed addition but I don't think it's [i]that[/i] important. Shouts which effect user changes might be a better option but I see the same issue coming up even with those. Namely if there is something that is personally changed from a pre-set, then it's because you want a player to play in a very specific way regardless of the rest of the team's instructions. [B]If I have deliberately told my inside forwards that they can have maximum creativity, regardless of if I am using Standard, Balanced or Attacking, why would I want that changed via the shouts[/B]?[/QUOTE]

This is actually a way of customising your shouts.

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[quote name='The Welsh Lad']I know what you mean with this going slightlyoff topic of tactics but I had a player stretchered off and one picked up a knock, had to sub the one carried off but also subbed the one that had a knock has a precaution (in a friendly) after the match in my inbox, the player who picked up a knock was out for 3 weeks whilst the one stretchered off was fine not even out for a day[/QUOTE]

My club captain in FM09 was regularly stretchered off, usually early in games, and 99/100 times he was fine the next day... It appeared to be in matches where I played a weak eleven, youngsters with promise and such, rather than my strongest team or in matches where the opposition were a bit "rough" with him... I eventually decided he was just a pussy and couldn't handle the rough treatment or was scared of being on the receiving end should my team selection fail as this seemed to be the only reason. Give him a game against Real or Arsenal and he'd play the full 90, play him against Barnet and he'd be stretchered off inside the first 10 minutes.. 99% gtd!

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i can't wait for the next blog which is after 30 min or less

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Can we please have less bling bling features and more substance (for tactics) in FM13?

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There are four new shouts, which nobody seems to have picked up on:

1: Play Ball out of Defence
2: Run at Defence
3: Play through Defence
4: Hit Early Crosses

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Contrary to blog about scouting, nothing new, improvements in the interface that should already be included when Tatical creator came......

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WOW - just simply - WOW - love the new Scouting Features - but these new Tactics features are EXACTLY what has been needed and are such a fantastic addition - making the game easier to use (not neccessarily easier to play - we dont neccessarily want that - just easier to use)...2012 is looking like it will be simply awesome!

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[quote name='juvito2k']Contrary to blog about scouting, nothing new, improvements in the interface that should already be included when Tatical creator came......[/QUOTE]

Well if there are improvement, then there is something new ;)

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0:29 into the blog the drop down menu has 'Team Meeting' and 'Team Policy' as options. These are additions to last years iteration.

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[quote name='Eugene Tyson']The addition to assign a player a role is a change. Before you had to set the position in the formation and dedicate a role to that position. So putting a DM in the DM slot. If you subbed the DM for a AM you had to fiddle around with the DM role to get it to the AM role. Now if you have Miguel Velosso in the DM role and you sub him for Steven Gerrard, it will use the role you predefined in Steven Gerrards settings and not the DM role defined in the formation.[/QUOTE]
Where you saw this on video?
Hi assign roles only for first 11.
[QUOTE]
And the addition of building your own "Shouts" is also new.
[/QUOTE]
own "Shouts" is just some set of standard shouts. You can't create a shout "Gerrard play deeper, the rest - the same".

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[quote name='Scamp']0:29 into the blog the drop down menu has 'Team Meeting' and 'Team Policy' as options. These are additions to last years iteration.[/QUOTE]

What I meant is in the additional focus in match preparation.

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Release date only about a month away then! :eek:

The new scouting stuff sounds excellent. A rehaul of scouting reports has been badly need for a long, long time!

The create your own shouts sounds really good. Again, I'm really pleased that they are working on something that I consider to be one of the most important parts of the game. I was annoyed that they stalled on doing more with the TC last year.

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