FM24 - Positional Play Explained with examples

[Rashidi]

POSITIONAL PLAY EXPLAINED FOR FM24

This is new to FM24, allowing you to build formations that morph into different ones during different phases. These changes to formation depend entirely on the roles you have chosen.

Simply put, a role can move into a new position and start playing in that position during a different phase. This means that with a few role changes a 433DM can easily change into a 235 with better positioning and spacing.  In previous editions of the game this would happen but the changes were sometimes clumsy. With positional change in FM24, roles are now actively looking to create space for a role that moves into a new position during a different phase.

 

In this image, I have a Segundo Volante, and an IWB, we are transitioning into our midfield phase. The IWB makes an attempt to move inside, the SV then moves higher up the pitch. 

It would be a good idea to get reacquainted with every role in the game. Inverted wingbacks in wingerless formations with as many as 3 defensive midfielders would never sit in the defensive midfield tier for prolonged periods, and, would play as wingbacks operating narrowly.

In FM24, this has changed. Here I have two Inverted wingbacks playing in a 4312DM, system, note how they are sitting in the DM tier when I have possession of the ball. 

When we lose possession of the ball they revert to playing as wingbacks

In FM24, its important to pay attention to how these roles trigger rotations, you can now make some very big changes to how a tactic plays with changes to roles. The Enganche may not have received any changes to the role, but combined with the new behavior from the Segundo Volante we can expect some exciting transitions.

Roles can trigger rotational changes in themselves and other roles. By rotational changes I mean, a change to a position within that tier, or to another position in a different tier.

There are 5 main tiers in football : Central Defender tier, DM tier, CM tier, AM tier and Forwards Tier. A role can rotate with another in its own tier or it can rotate with another in a different tier.

Rotational Shifts in position/tier

Defenders

Inverted Fullback (From FB to CD)
Inverted Wingback (From FB & WB to DM). 
Libero (From CD to DM)

Midfielders

Halfback ( From DM to CD) Even an offset HB will cause the two central defenders to go wider.
Segundo Volante (From DM to AM)
Roaming Playmaker (From DM, CM, AM)
Box to Box Midfielder (From CM to AM)
Central Midfielder Attack (From CM to AM)
Advanced Playmaker (From CM to AM)
Mezzala (From CM to AM)

Roles rotate and form new partnerships that are in that tier. For example if you have a Segundo Volante and you are using a playmaker in the AM tier, during phases in the game, the SV will move up the pitch and form an partnership with the AMC. Each time a role moves into a new position, he will build a working relationship with another role in that tier. Roles in the other tier will accommodate this positional shift. In the next few sections I will show you how some of these could work with the use of several formations.

For example, in this formation I expect new partnerships to form in transition. I expect it to morph from a deep 4312 in the defensive build up phase, into a 235 diamond in the midfield phase

Different roles will now shift into new positions to accomodate the movement of the roles listed earlier. This allows for better positioning and spacing throughout the team. It’s worth noting that with better players and more elaborate tactical setups, you can still expect discipline when moving into a different position. 

In this image we are down a man and I have lost one DM.

My team still has the discipline to maintain the partnerships. We are transitioning into the midfield phase here, but the two SVs are still a distance away from the Enganche, I only expect them to form the partnership once we are in the opponent’s third and are into our attacking transition. 

When we have moved into the attacking phase, note how my SVs are positioned, one of them is already forming a partnership with the Enganche while the other is in a decent position.

We get into the attacking phase seamlessly, and the SV on the far side attacks the box while the SV on the near side arrives to support.

City easily beat Inter Milan 5-2 a man down for 45 minutes, scoring 3 of the goals in the second half.

 

Most of these formations were created on FM23 before the new features were announced, then tested once they were and over the course of the next few months, I do expect minor changes. The thing about FM is this, if a tactic worked well in previous editions of the game, there is no reason to suggest why it would fail to work in latter editions. So let me run through a few of these formations. 

4231 Formations

Positional play isn't meant to be rigid. When you use these roles in any tactic, other roles are meant to react to them contextually. This isn't really that big of a change if you consider the drawbacks of earlier engines from previous versions. Using roles like the IWB wouldnt see them anchor midfield when there were more than 2 midfielders there. Now whenever one of these roles moves up the pitch another makes space for it. Yes IWBs will play a lot more "inverted" in double dm systems.
Lets see how they can play in a regular 4231 system

 

In this formation, I am expecting the IWB to push into defensive midfield and then form a partnership with the Mezzala who in turn will shift into attacking midfield during the latter phases of play to form a partnership with the playmaker. This should see the playmaker having a very big impact centrally and sometimes to the right. This allows me to create a box buildup transitioning into a wide attacking 5 channel attack.

To understand the impact of these new changes consider only the following:

- The roles which transition through the tiers
- What other roles are there in that tier and what duties do they play
- Player quality - if there is a big divergence in quality between sides you could see very lopsided performances favouring the stronger team, if it utilizes these features optimally ( finding the right player for the right role and having the right combinations)

 

5221 Formations

These formations can be a lot of fun to play with. In FM23 I used a 5221 with Lens and it was defensively very solid, now with the new positional play feature we can get the same defensive structure and still give it an attacking bite. This time I will use an attacking playmaker with a poacher combination in attack. I find this to be one of the more interesting attacking combinations in the game, because both roles will apply pressure in a concentrated area, this creates a defensive dilemma for defenders. 

ATTACKING STRUCTURE
The logic of this attacking structure is simple. When I use an AP(A) alongside a SS and a Poacher, I create a very narrow attacking trio that creates a 3v2 situation against nearly every defense in the game. Defenders need to track the runs of all 3 players, one will almost always get away.

The AP(A)/Poacher combination alongside the AP/PF(A) combos can be very good, if you are planning on not playing a game of “soak and hit”. Personally I dislike the AP(A)/AF combo because it is inefficient. It works great in transitions where the AI is attacking you and leaving you with easy space for a strong fast striker to exploit, but may sometimes struggle if the ball goes prematurely to the AF against stacked defenses.  The match engine recognizes the AF as the focal point of attacks, which means that I am likely to see a few more passes being directed  his way. I don’t like premature passes. If I can dominate possession, playing a mid block and still defeat stacked defensive sides, then I can have my cake and eat it too.

BUILDUP PLAY

A primary creative pivot in the team will be the ball playing defender on cover. This role is one of the best to use if you seek to set up a system that dictates tempo from deeper areas. With the right attributes a ball playing defender can bring the ball out, change the focus of play and basically move the whole team higher up the pitch. Sometimes when the ball playing defender is on the ball and when you are playing pass into space, you might even find players in wider spaces calling for the ball.

His presence does not reduce the impact of the attacking playmaker who largely dictates play in the final third,

This system shares a lot of similarities to the Lens system I created in FM23, it should prove hard to break down, and with the new changes to positional play offers a bit more going forward. Its the reason why we are using an attacking playmaker in the final third.

DEFENSIVE STRUCTURE

The tactic plays with a back 6 that comprises a 3 man defense of a WCB(S)/WCB(D) and a BPD on cover, flanked by 2 complete wingbacks and a defensive midfielder on defend duty.

In transition I expect the 3 WCB to cover the defensive third, while the DM sits centrally. The two wingbacks will give us the width and since they are playing as complete wingbacks, they could go wide or narrow. This is perfect since there could be formations that are stacked in the centre or congested down the flanks. With intelligent wingbacks they will go where the space is.

If I were a weaker team I might consider wingbacks, but that role is too one dimensional. It seeks to go down flanks all day long. I much rather have a role that used space more intelligently.

The Segundo Volante should come back and help us defend, but in case he doesn’t we will keep the WCB on defend duty down the right flank.

TRANSITIONAL PLAY

In transition I expect the SV to move up to form a partnership with the two other attacking roles in the AM tier. I do expect the SS and Poacher to interchange and move. I expect to see a 5 channel attack with a free unmarked player in the SV(A).

If I want to throttle up pressure, I could by adding an underlap to the CWB on the right flank, this could benefit central roles that seek to run at defenses, since the widest player will hold up the ball looking for an inside run.

When up against similar systems, playing on balanced mentality away from home could be an issue, as sides using a 5221 might be getting more traction down the flanks. I do find that in games like this its better to go on a higher mentality, rather than making adjustments to sliders like defensive line or lines of engagement.

In the attacking transition, you should expect the Shadow striker to move either side of the poacher, I do recommend adding roam from position on the advanced playmaker

 

VARIATIONS OF PLAY

STRICT COUNTER

You can change the style of the system quite easily. Stick an AP(S) with an AF, you get a solitary focus. You could sit deep and then hurl counters over the top. By removing counter-press, adding play more disciplined and counter, you can create the foundation of a decent counter attacking system. I would go further by changing the CWB to WB on defend duties. Wingback on defend duties are one of the most underrated role/duty combinations in the whole game. They do get up to attack and do a very good job of protecting the flanks, second only to the defensive winger.

DIFFERENT SHAPES FOR ATTACKING AND DEFENDING

A long time ago we could set out attacking and defending shapes, even then it wasn’t a perfect system. With the positional play feature its actually a lot easier, though for some new to the game it might not be immediately obvious. In this section I plan to show you how you can achieve this, breaking this process down in steps.

To set up attacking and defensive shapes we need to remember that most coaches have multiple ways for their teams to attack and defend. Mikel Arteta, was once asked by a reporter what their shape they took up in a game and he said they could do.

Quote

"I think we discuss formations in a different way," Arteta told his Friday news conference. "The other day there were 36 different formations in the match [against Fulham]. Against Manchester City 43. I don't know what formation we're talking about. For me it's something very different maybe from the ways that you look. 

They adapt to situations in a game. Generally though, most managers will have styles when it comes to defend. Perhaps they will try to be compact with two disciplined banks of 4. Others like Sir Alex Ferguson believed in front foot defending before settling into a 4-4 shape. Others might want to defend in a  6-2 configuration with 6 players dropped in a line nearest their goal with 2 defensive midfielders.

Identifying how you want to defend is the first step. And this is done by considering your mentality, overall choice of roles and duties and other team instructions.

You can do this by either thinking of your attacking shape or defensive shape first. 

STEP 1

Lets list out how we want to look when we attack, then consider where you want them to drop to and defend

The red positions are where I want them to drop to in their midfield transition (ignoring the striker) and the blue positions are where they should be when they attack.

When I am defending I want them to drop into a strict 4-5 narrow bank.

STEP 2 
What do you want your players to do? How attacking do you want them to do be?

Looking at my attacking shape its obvious I want to occupy all 5 channels and have at least one free option, I have 6 players in that third. I really only need 5 players to attack the channels. Number 7 or 8 can be the ones coming in unmarked.

If you look carefully you will notice that I want 11 to surge up the field and participate in attacks and then drop all the way back. This should be an attacking wingback role. If I want him to stay wide to offer width, the best option would be the wingback. If I want him to create chaos and come inside occasionally then the better option would be a complete wingback. However with so many players arriving we could cause unnecessary congestion.

When we reach midfield I want us to transition into a diamond shape to help us control the centre. 

Now let me state this clearly, you can get the 3-1-6 attack pattern using different formation shapes, ultimately your choice of which formation to use depends on what kind of banks you want to see your side employ when they are defending. If SI gave us the option to create dual systems for defence and attack, then human permutations will quickly unravel the AI system,  

I want a 4-5 bank which means its easier to do this with a back 4. Let me start.

 

No 7 and 5 can both be central midfielders, and since I want them to arrive a bit later they should ideally be one of the roles that will shift from the CM tier to the AM tier. We have a few options: mezzala, box to box midfielder, central midfielder on attack duty, or advanced playmaker. All these roles will shift up a tier.  I will pick a box to box and a central midfielder on attack duty to stagger the two roles slightly. 

I want my left flank to be creative and my right flank to score. 

So here we go, the team is using the formation, and I am going to see if it needs tweaks. Initially I was playing the AP on attack.  During the course of the game  while looking at the build up play down the left, I noticed that there were going to be some issues.

Our wingback has the ball and has players all around him , then he hoofs the ball. This is a clear sign that he does not have passing options or he lost composure.

Since they were on the same duty, they kept pushing up, we didn’t transition well down the left flank. In the next game I changed the AP to support and we started playing a lot better.

I am now happier with how the team looks when we have to transition from defense to attack, here our defender has just won the ball, we have a 3-1 shape and are moving into attack.

When we need to defend we drop into a solid disciplined 4-5-1, that’s the blue team on the right in case you were wondering.

Football formations perform contextually and I usually like to test my 4141s against two particular systems the 4231 and the much harder to break down 5221

Against the 5221 I am pleased to see that we can work the ball into dangerous situations to apply pressure either side of their back 3.

Once De Roon gets the ball he turns holds the ball longer enough for Miranchuk to make his run and we are behind the defensive line with a really good goal scoring chance. Since I am attacking across all 5 channels the defense is occupied and all we need are players with good off the ball, anticipation and finishing to find the back of the net

ACHIEVING DEFENSIVE SOLIDITY

Pressing happens in zones on football manager. We are playing with a  higher defensive line and a high block and with 2 banks of 4. Our players will be closer together. The wingback and the AP are on the same line, if I set trigger press more often to maximum, then there could be a good chance more than 1 player reacts to a trigger.

In football manager a trigger is any event where a player ‘might’ lose control of the ball. Perhaps he is late to the ball, or he is turning away and shielding the ball waiting for support or he could have had a poor first touch. These are triggers. When a trigger happens I don’t want my players to break their shape too easily. Let’s force the AI to play through my banks of 4.

In this image the AI is attacking me, and it really has no where to go. I hope this proved useful to anyone who was wondering how they could get two shapes working with one formation.

We could keep this going, but let's stop here. There are so many tactical systems you can now make on football manager. You can replicate to some extent Ange Postecoglou's Spurs, Klopp's Liverpool and Guardiola's City. These would all be different looking 433 formations. The W-M shape and even the Hungarians W-W is possible on football manager, at least the attacking shapes. Over the course of the next few weeks you will probably see them all emerge. However some systems like Fernando's Diniz's Fluminese system may be a lot of harder to do, but I am sure some enterprising person on the forums will figure one out.

 

BTN EROS 442 IWB

THE 442 becomes the Brazilian Box in attack and defends like a 442

Here’s another example of a system that can defend one way and attack in an entirely different way, and for some it could be a highly enjoyable system. The goal here is to create a narrow attacking pattern with a 442 that looks like the Brazilian Box attack, but then transitions in defence to a 442. One of the weaknesses of the traditional brazilian box was the flank vulnerability. This happened because we used to line it up either as a 442 with 2 DMs 2 AMs 2 Strikers or 2 DMs 2MCs and 2 strikers. Either way the flanks only had the fullback defending.

Here my 442 has transitioned into a narrow attacking pattern.

By the time we get to goal, our side midfielders are coming in to attack the lines.

When defending it drops into a 442, in this system we are playing with a small zone of compression, which means that we should have more than 1 player available when a press is triggered. This system will require players with high work rate and good skill on the ball to pull off, but if we lose the ball in transition I like the fact that it drops into two banks of 4. If I need to take more risks I move it up to attacking mentality and when I need to be more careful with my approach I can play on balanced. This system might not be for everybody but its a lot of fun. If you want an orthodox 442 then perhaps you should settle for something like this. A simple 442 that has the AP pushing into the AM tier when needed ably protected by a BWM who by the way doesn't close down like a mad hatter. 

 

Therein lies the beauty of the new positional play feature,  all you need to do is to experiment  have fun and not be bound by artificial rules of what should or should not be done in the game. 

[Rashidi]

OTHER FORMATIONS
Its interesting to see close we can get to replicating some formations from real life, what follows is my interpretation of how some teams play. Its important to realise that managers can react to different opposition by changing their formation. They can also adapt their system when an injury happens. As always please feel free to use them as they are meant to be, sharing what can be done.

 

ANGE POSTECOGLOU - SPURS

I daresay this may become one of the most popular tactics for FM24, simply because of its attacking bent. In real life Spurs play a 433 with two inverted wingbacks, and 2 free eights in midfield who depending on the buildup can come in narrow or go out wide. The manager expects his team to play out of defence all the time and their fowards are expected to work the channels or come in from wider positions. They have been very attacking this season and also play quite high up the pitch.

Buildup Phase

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In the midfield phase their free eights can go wide or narrow. I could provide defensive lines, heatmaps and key pass plots but that would make this an inordinately long post. I just want to be brief. 
 

This is how I see them play, with the IWBs coming inside, there may be a greater need to put the stay wider instruction on the inside forwards, this will encourage them to take up better positions from which to drag out opposing fullbacks. Maddisons heatmap typically places him on the left side of most attacks.

And I know he doesn't attack the box nearly as much as he would as a CM(A), if I wanted to be closer in my interpretation, i would probably turn one mid into a box to box and another into a mezzala, but in this case I wanted to see Maddison score a lot of goals, so this is the interpretation I am going for.

Klopp - Liverpool

Strengths and Weaknesses of a 433DM

Features

The 433Dm is a versatile system that is solid defensively. It is commonly used when a side has explosive wingers or inside forwards they can utilise. With 3 in attack, the system usually requires a role from central midfield attacking the halfspaces near the penalty area.

Top managers like Jurgen Klopp and Pep Guardiola have used the system before, over time both managers have adapted it in different ways to show how versatile it can be.

In attack it has 2 wide attacking roles and a striker in the middle. Variations of this attacking pattern have included, wide playmakers who create overloads on one side of the pitch to release the inside forward diagonally on the opposite side. We’ve also had systems where the lone striker plays as a deeper creative role dropping deep to draw opposition teams out. Sides would then attack the channels or get behind the fullbacks.

In the last few years we’ve also seen variations of the 433DM that include using a ball playing central defender who pushes into central midfield areas to dictate play and seeing fullbacks inverting.

Ange Postecoglou uses a 433DM with two inverted wingbacks and two roaming central midfielders. 

Ultimately the 433 is one of the more commonly used systems in the world today because of its versatility.

Weaknesses

Perhaps its biggest weakness can be the lack of goals. If a 433DM is designed without considering how attack patterns can form centrally, then the system becomes a simple flank attacking formation, where the most common attack patterns involve crosses. When this develops, sides start running up low xG opportunities and since the fulbacks are surging up the pitch, it leaves the flanks vulnerable.

When this happens it can sometimes suffer from conceding cheap goals against the run of play. It requires very good technical players who can attack the wings and it needs a strong, smart central striker. In order to play the variations of the 433 it also requires fast fullbacks who can recover quickly if needed.

STYLE

The 433DM can be played with wingbacks or fullbacks. Its important to understand what each role brings:

Complete wingback - Aggressive, likely to dribble at defences, since it roams it can move centrally. It uses space very well.

Wingback - Mainly stays on the wing, unless you play someone on the flank opposite his preferred foot. May try to take on defences with a dribble and might lose the ball. Ideal in setups that do not feature any other players on the flank (eg 4312). 

Wingback Defend duty ; Underrated role, will hold position, does not try to be too adventurous and will go down the flanks when it makes sense to and isn’t too risky. It is a role that I would recommend  if someone only plans to get the wingback to cross from deep.

Fullback - A role that will pass inside and then run before waiting for the return pass. This is a very good role for pass and go tactics because he will not try and beat a player with a dribble.

Inverted Fullback - This role does play a bit like the wingback on defend duty, It will sit back in defence like a central defender. If the play shifts to his side of the pitch, he will go towards the flanks and if its not too risky he may try and go as far as the edge of the final third.  He however will not go towards the byeline, which makes him an excellent role for systems that want to attack exclusively with their wingers.

Inverted wingback - This role will move into the defensive midfield tier during buildup. If the player is a support duty he will also move slightly higher up the pitch during the midfield phase. It can now be used in dual defensive midfield scenarios, however they will be times when he just plays narrow like a wingback if there is no space for him to move into.

To play the LFC system I will require an IWB and a IFB in defence. Currently Andy Robertson plays the role of the IFB and Trent Alexander Arnold does the job of a IWB(S). 

Dominik Szoboszlai usually attacks through the half channel space on the right and can be seeing making final third entry runs near the edge of the penalty area.

Mac Allister may do the job of a 6 for his nation, but he hasn’t been too convincing as one for Liverpool. With injuries to Bajectic, Liverpool added Wataru Endo to the side. It is still early days for LFC so I have set up a midfield partnership that I thought would be the best for the side.

UNDERSTANDING COUNTERPRESSING AND THE PRESSING GAME

The best counterpressing sides have always attacked with narrow width. Bayern Munich and Liverpool in their prime both played narrow with counter-pressing.  When sides are playing defensive systems you have two options:

You can play your normal game and hope or try and draw them out. Electing to move the ball around and try and create goal scoring chances, or, you can try and push the game into their half put them under tremendous pressure and take advantage of any mistake they make. 

Counterpressing is about winning the ball back 12 seconds after you have lost it. This means they will avoid dropping back, but instead those players who lost the ball will attempt to win it back.  Here you want to take advantage of the fact that you already have your players in advanced positions.

To counter press well, sides like Bayern and LFC would always be a bit narrow in the attack so that the players would be closer together, their zonal marking areas would overlap, leading to wolfpack pressing.

When you increase width your are increasing the distance between players and increasing the chance that you might not win the ball back. So whenever I see a team sitting back and defending with a 5212 for example, I will push my defensive line up to maximum, reduce my width, setting pressing triggers to maximum, have my opposition instructions to trigger press the backline and hard tackling the backline on.

While Liverpool do not always ask their central defenders to dribble more with the ball, I do, especially against weaker sides that have set up to defend. 

In this tactic, there are several player instructions.

Since we want TAA to push out as an IWB, it could leave the 3 at the backline offset too much to the left. To counter this we get the BPD on the right to stay wider.

In attack we want the IF(A) to stay wider, close down more and mark tighter, we repeat the same with the other IF(A) on the left,. In attack we also ask the CF(A) to close down more and tackle harder.

The box to box midfielder has been told to dribble more, the mezzala is left alone along with the defensive midfielder.

Those are all the player instructions in use.

When we are playing against very defensive teams, I may elect to make these changes which I find useful.

If the opposition normally play with a deep defensive line ( information that can be found out from the data hub) I put our defensive line to maximum and change the role of the IF(A) on the right to a winger on attack with the same player instructions added.

- Increase width
- Add Work ball into box
- Play with a high block

Tactical Variations

If you add focus play through the middle and change the roles of the IF(A) to W(A) you make the Mezzala more explosive in the final third

PEP GUARDIOLA - CITY
In the absence of John Stones, City have had to adapt. They are playing slightly differently this season than they are now, but I will be using my interpretation of how they played last season to build this tactic. And it will feature John Stones as a Libero.
 

My City replication article is actually quite long so I will be brief here.

 

This is their buildup pattern this season notice how the backline is positioned. This season Kyle Walker looks as if he is being asked to play exclusively as a wingback.

Just before they enter their attacking phase, Rodri and Akanji can usually be seen around the opponent's box.


And when that happens the last man is almost always Gvardiol.  With Rodri in the middle and the two centre backs flanking its a 3-1 diamond shape.



I am after last season's system where John Stones was a libero, this system can easily be adapted to fit a wingback.

This version depends entirely on whom I want seeing scoring goals, the roles on the flanks are interchangeable. If i want to stretch defenses, its wingers, otherwise I can play with Inside forwards much like how they operate in real life.

De Zerbi - Brighton
Why stop at 3?
 

Brighton are playing an interesting system in real life. Two strikers who drop deep allowing their wider players to come inside and attack, a double pivot for control and a serious desire to play out from the back. It's a 424 in my eyes.

Some say they play a 4231 others say they play a 424. I say they try to have their cake and eat it too. This is a team that seeks to play a brand of football thats exciting to watch for an underdog. And to do that they like to draw teams in and slap them hard with goals. It doesn’t always work, but its definitely drawn some attention.

Not all sides are created equal, weaker sides sometimes sit back, soak and try and hit on the counter. However in top tier leagues like the premier league, this means sitting back and defending against top tier talent that do have the ability to create chances against a low block.

So what can some sides do, they can bait the press whilst sitting in a low block and then look to attack teams rapidly through the transition. When a team is sitting in a low block it will naturally create space behind the attacking team and between the lines.

Sitting in a low block and baiting the press is fairly difficult to do, because the amount of space a defending team can use is also reduced simply because there are now more players there.

How do you get from a low block into a counter transition.

A central defender could play balls into space, ie playing longer passes behind the opposition’s defensive line, but doing this will cause sides to potentially lose possession. Managers like Roberto De Zerbi, don’t seek to have their defenders play it long. He gets his defenders to transition the ball into the central areas of the pitch where they can generate more dangerous.

Build up play
In order to counter teams that might man mark or tight mark the defensive midfielders, Brighton’s side’s find ways to create a free man for the pass by drawing pressing players on to them. Brighton’s tempo at the back isn’t very fast, central defenders attract the press, the defensive midfielders drop into space so that they are available for the pass.

Brighton use a double pivot in midfield that move the ball up the pitch. So how can sides do this dismarking of the two pivots

1. Using a BPD to bring up the ball and draw the press
2. Using DMs that come deep to get the ball
3. Play out of defence

Brighton’s goal is to get the ball to central midfield from where their to strikers actually come deeper to draw defenders higher, this creates space for the wingers to attack. In central midfield, one of the or either defensive  midfielder needs to be able to spring the transition pass out wide.

This isn’t an attempt to replicate Brighton, but meant to be an explanation of it in FM terms, so how do I set this up on FM24, we can either use a 442 or 4231.  Either one can work.

First though let’s dive into some numbers from fbref.com to try and understand how the team plays in real life.

FORMATION or FORMATIONS?

Nearly everywhere you go its expressed notationally as a 4231. When watching the team play, to me at least, they resemble a 442 in defense and a 424 in attack, with both strikers sitting a lot deeper in the midfield phase with both wingers punching up.

De Zerbi looks to use the middle to release the wingers into space. They operate more as a midblock in most cases because they do not have the kind of players technically suited to breaking down stubborn sides in a low block.

If we go to fbref we can take any match report and dive into their numbers. This gives us some understanding of whats happening.

The numbers I normally seek are passing, progression, ball carries and defensive actions.

From the possession tab I can clearly see that Dahoud and Gross have most of their touches in the middle third, with Gross having more touches in the final third than Dahoud.  Under carries PrgC you will see that neither player dribbles with the ball more than 10 yards towards goal or into the final third.

When looking at the passing stats you will find that these two players do play quite a few passes into the final third with a good mix of passes that include short, long and medium passes.

n terms of defensive actions, nearly all their actions happen in the defensive and middle third areas of the pitch. 

Based on how Mitoma and March are set up by De Zerbi, they are always trying to attack the lines, whilst the two strikers frequently drop deeper to draw central defenders higher thereby creating even more space in the defensive third.

I would set the team up like this if I wanted to start with any attempt of setting this up on Football Manager 24
 

You could also set this up with 2 defensive midfielders in the middle and two wingbacks on defend duty. I don’t believe a formation should be a rigid interpretation of things, in fact depending on the situation you may want to ask your players to change the style of the system.

Double Volantes 
Risky - potentially has both players attacking the box
High chance that a lot of play could also go down the flanks
With technically capable players could dominate since the transition overloads the centre, but at the cost of leaving on flank space free

Defensive Midfielders
Orthodox - Predictable DMs will not flood the AM tier
Defensively more rigid

Wingbacks on defend
Provide protection down the flanks
More inclined to use the defensive midfielders as a passing option, thereby creating the potential for different attack patterns which could include balls through the middle

All the variations work, with wingbacks on defend you get more control, with wingbacks on support you could work ball into box and still trouble some teams. And with Volantes you end up flooding the third.

Away from home, I could play with wingbacks on defend duty and DMs utilising the box buildup created by the central defenders and the two defensive midfielders to control games. The attack pattern will see some attacks happen through the middle.

At home I can opt for any number of actions depending on the quality of the opposition.

In one of my games I decided to opt for this set up

The passmap it generated showed a lot of right sided focus involving Gross

When I compare this to Brighton’s passmap against Manchester United there aren’t a lot of dissimilarities, they almost look similar

Have fun playing football manager 24. My hope is that you understand the thought process that went behind creating these tactics, and if you didn't you can always find me and ask me here on the forums, or out there .... somewhere.

 

[DBSC]

Can we sticky this? Incredible info, as always!

Edited October 19, 2023 by DBSC

[sonnevillejr]

On 17/09/2023 at 08:02, Rashidi said:

Midfielders

Halfback ( From DM to CD) Even an offset HB will cause the two central defenders to go wider.
Segundo Volante (From DM to AM)
Roaming Playmaker (From DM, CM, AM)
Box to Box Midfielder (From CM to AM)
Central Midfielder Attack (From CM to AM)
Advanced Playmaker (From CM to AM)
Mezzala (From CM to AM)

The Regista is not in that list?

[Jack Sarahs]

3 hours ago, sonnevillejr said:

The Regista is not in that list?

Because it doesn’t trigger a rotation. 

[newsuzanoebok]

really NICE post, good tips and complete analysis

how you think is the best way to emulate Griezmann role in france?

i want my AMC to drop really deep to get the ball and start counter attacks or to organize the team, like, he needs to be always on the same side as the ball

but doesnt matter what AMC role i set up, my AMC tends to become a third striker or at least make lots of runs when we got the ball, instead be near the ball ready to receive the ball

[yonko]

On 16/09/2023 at 23:02, Rashidi said:

Rotational Shifts in position/tier

Midfielders

Halfback ( From DM to CD) Even an offset HB will cause the two central defenders to go wider.
Segundo Volante (From DM to AM)
Roaming Playmaker (From DM, CM, AM)
Box to Box Midfielder (From CM to AM)
Central Midfielder Attack (From CM to AM)
Advanced Playmaker (From CM to AM)
Mezzala (From CM to AM)

Is the RPM moving from DM to CM and from CM to AM?

Also, are there any positional rotations between AMR/L and STC roles? For example IF-A and F9 or AF-A. Also, SS-A and F9?

[Rashidi]

3 minutes ago, yonko said:

Is the RPM moving from DM to CM and from CM to AM?

Also, are there any positional rotations between AMR/L and STC roles? For example IF-A and F9 or AF-A. Also, SS-A and F9?

The RPM will rotate  from the DPM to CM tier in the buildup and then into the AM tier in the next stage of transition. Roles in those tiers will form partnerships by the arriving RPM by moving to the side. Unless a role has been listed here ( the list was provided by the match engine team) they don’t rotate.
 

You will need to try things out, cos the movement of a lot of roles is more intuitive than a simple “go here” if “he comes”. 

The halfback at the moment is one such role, his rotation looks a bit strange when he is playing in an offset 4231DM and then looks fantastic in a single pivot system.

[Rashidi]

3 hours ago, newsuzanoebok said:

i want my AMC to drop really deep to get the ball and start counter attacks or to organize the team, like, he needs to be always on the same side as the ball

If you want him to drop very deep, you might have two choices. A trait like comes deeper which will only make it a tendency or the role of a Trequartista. Though I haven’t tried a TQ yet, that would be an assumption.

[bosque]

I didn't finish reading but I'm loving it. Great write up!

[DBSC]

Are attributes critical or just more useful to effectively use tactics with heavy rotational roles? Such as teamwork, positioning, off the ball, anticipation etc. i.e. would using roles such as inverted full backs be a no go for LLM saves?

[Hzano123]

6 hours ago, Jack Sarahs said:

Because it doesn’t trigger a rotation. 

Very interesting, are there any places I can look to see which roles doesn't trigger rotation?

 

All of the fluidity is very nice but some times I would love my team to be more rigid.

[phnompenhandy]

37 minutes ago, DBSC said:

Are attributes critical or just more useful to effectively use tactics with heavy rotational roles? Such as teamwork, positioning, off the ball, anticipation etc. i.e. would using roles such as inverted full backs be a no go for LLM saves?

I watch a lot of lower league real-life football on YouTube and see inverted fullbacks quite commonly now. There's nothing particularly technical about the role that requires higher-level skills.

[yann]

Great work ,as usual

[Amarante]

3 hours ago, Rashidi said:

The RPM will rotate  from the DPM to CM tier in the buildup and then into the AM tier in the next stage of transition. Roles in those tiers will form partnerships by the arriving RPM by moving to the side. Unless a role has been listed here ( the list was provided by the match engine team) they don’t rotate.
 

You will need to try things out, cos the movement of a lot of roles is more intuitive than a simple “go here” if “he comes”. 

The halfback at the moment is one such role, his rotation looks a bit strange when he is playing in an offset 4231DM and then looks fantastic in a single pivot system.

Rotation of attackers are far more common now in modern football especially the F9 dropping deep and the inside forward becoming the striker. A missed opportunity here. 

[DarJ]

1 hour ago, Hzano123 said:

Very interesting, are there any places I can look to see which roles doesn't trigger rotation?

 

This post contains a list of roles that trigger rotation so if a role is not on the list then it doesn't 

[herne79]

Lots to digest here and experiment with.  Big thanks for sharing .

[Jyuan83]

Am i right to say that all the roles and their movements from previous FM editions have changed with regards to how they perceive and enter space? If so then i think we can see more attacking the box/ post moves from wide players in the ML/R spectrum and not just from the AML/R positions as long as space is made for it. 

[w_x]

Banger thread. Planning on working on a Liquid 433 inspired tactic, probably one of my all time favourites 

[Jack Sarahs]

5 hours ago, Hzano123 said:

Very interesting, are there any places I can look to see which roles doesn't trigger rotation?

 

All of the fluidity is very nice but some times I would love my team to be more rigid.

Yes it's all of the roles not listed above.

The roles listed above are the only roles that trigger rotations.

[Jack Sarahs]

5 hours ago, Amarante said:

Rotation of attackers are far more common now in modern football especially the F9 dropping deep and the inside forward becoming the striker. A missed opportunity here. 

It's not a missed opportunity. We only had so much time to get these rotations in & this feature complete. We ideally would like to have gone even further with this feature and put even more rotations in, but we're pretty proud of what we've achieved as a team and I don't see this as a missed opportunity as a fan of the game or as an employee. We feel we've given people far more tools then ever before and I think anyone that loves tactics will appreciate this feature and as previously stated we would love to have added more in an ideal scenario but there wasn't another scenario or an option other then what we've put out as a team.

Hopefully people are enjoying the rotations we were able to put into the game this year.

[arthurbf10]

54 minutos atrás, Jack Sarahs disse:

It's not a missed opportunity. We only had so much time to get these rotations in & this feature complete. We ideally would like to have gone even further with this feature and put even more rotations in, but we're pretty proud of what we've achieved as a team and I don't see this as a missed opportunity as a fan of the game or as an employee. We feel we've given people far more tools then ever before and I think anyone that loves tactics will appreciate this feature and as previously stated we would love to have added more in an ideal scenario but there wasn't another scenario or an option other then what we've put out as a team.

Hopefully people are enjoying the rotations we were able to put into the game this year.

You guys did a banging job, these changes alone made me buy this year's edition

[ryandormer]

Really enjoying the new version so far, it's fantastic.

The only thing I'm struggling with is how to differentiate between the wide roles (winger, IF and IW), and also the CM to AM transition roles (Mez, CM(a), AP, BBM).

For example, in my 433, the wide players seem to play exactly the same, whether I set them to be wingers, IWs or IFs.

My Mez also seems to behave exactly the same as a BBM or AP.

It might just be that I'm not paying close enough attention, but I can't work out which role is best for my tactic, as they all seem to do the same thing.

[Amarante]

4 hours ago, Jack Sarahs said:

It's not a missed opportunity. We only had so much time to get these rotations in & this feature complete. We ideally would like to have gone even further with this feature and put even more rotations in, but we're pretty proud of what we've achieved as a team and I don't see this as a missed opportunity as a fan of the game or as an employee. We feel we've given people far more tools then ever before and I think anyone that loves tactics will appreciate this feature and as previously stated we would love to have added more in an ideal scenario but there wasn't another scenario or an option other then what we've put out as a team.

Hopefully people are enjoying the rotations we were able to put into the game this year.

Yes maybe I was being a bit too harsh as the changes are good and the patterns of play are alot better this year 

[Rashidi]

The changes to the match engine are simply the best, the positional play just requires people to pay attention to how different roles operate, where they go. It’s so good it’s turned my streams into an endless festival of creating different tactics. I am certain people will enjoy them once they give it the game a good run out.

[Amarante]

59 minutes ago, Rashidi said:

The changes to the match engine are simply the best, the positional play just requires people to pay attention to how different roles operate, where they go. It’s so good it’s turned my streams into an endless festival of creating different tactics. I am certain people will enjoy them once they give it the game a good run out.

I've been using my SV as a make shift attacker while using inverted fullbacks to cover for the runs. My next experiment is to fully create the 235 attacking pattern from city. 

[(sic)]

1 hour ago, Rashidi said:

The changes to the match engine are simply the best, the positional play just requires people to pay attention to how different roles operate, where they go. It’s so good it’s turned my streams into an endless festival of creating different tactics. I am certain people will enjoy them once they give it the game a good run out.

It's a dream come true honestly. There are so many options now, and so many new tactics that are going to be possible.

[matty2323]

Fantastic information - really appreciated and informative.

Im curious, in real life i like my teams to play a narrow 4-4-2 diamond. 1 x DM, 2 x B2B CMs and 1 x AM. Traditionally in these formations the FBs are required to provide the width. However, depending on opposition shape, our 2 x B2Bs had the freedom to pull wide and turn the diamond in a wide 4-4-2 diamond and we would have the FBs stay narrower or even invert into central spots. 

Im looking to emulate this in FM but I note that alot of the CM "rotations" involve vertical movements (CM to AM etc) but im curious if any of these roles allow horizontal and vertical rotations for midfielders?

[mc22]

I feel as though these changes will make Bielsa style tactics much more feasible than before, excited to try it 

[Vladis]

4 hours ago, matty2323 said:

Fantastic information - really appreciated and informative.

Im curious, in real life i like my teams to play a narrow 4-4-2 diamond. 1 x DM, 2 x B2B CMs and 1 x AM. Traditionally in these formations the FBs are required to provide the width. However, depending on opposition shape, our 2 x B2Bs had the freedom to pull wide and turn the diamond in a wide 4-4-2 diamond and we would have the FBs stay narrower or even invert into central spots. 

Im looking to emulate this in FM but I note that alot of the CM "rotations" involve vertical movements (CM to AM etc) but im curious if any of these roles allow horizontal and vertical rotations for midfielders?

I think you could try mezzalas instead of b2b. There natural tendency to go wide opens more freedom to full-backs, wing-backs to cut inside when it's possible to do. 

Edited October 21, 2023 by Vladis

[Rashidi]

6 hours ago, matty2323 said:

Im looking to emulate this in FM but I note that alot of the CM "rotations" involve vertical movements (CM to AM etc) but im curious if any of these roles allow horizontal and vertical rotations for midfielders?

These rotations are vertical, during a transition phase, one role will move vertically up while another will make space for that role. If you have two roles like a Libero and a halfback you could see one role move up while another comes down. Apart from that, rotations don't shifted horizontally.

 

13 hours ago, ryandormer said:

The only thing I'm struggling with is how to differentiate between the wide roles (winger, IF and IW), and also the CM to AM transition roles (Mez, CM(a), AP, BBM).

Generally you start by reading the description of the role, which I am sure you have done, then we look at the duty of each role which suggest somewhat how attacking its going to be. Finally I would pay attention to the attributes, a RPM is more likely to move around the pitch and do rotations compared to another role like a Regista which if you check their attributes don't have physical attributes listed as key to the role. Ultimately it takes time and practice to identify them for yourself which is generally the best thing to do. Everyone learns by trying different things.

 

19 hours ago, Jyuan83 said:

Am i right to say that all the roles and their movements from previous FM editions have changed with regards to how they perceive and enter space?

The changes to positional play will impact roles somewhat, however, good tactics that were well thought out will still work in the current game.  I think in this edition there is better "space management" by other roles when "rotational roles" move around.  Some might think that congested narrow systems might be forced into space with the new changes, but actually that's not really true. Narrow attacking systems like the Xmas tree, 4312 and the 442 Diamond are fun to play now too.

[Amarante]

10 minutes ago, Rashidi said:

The changes to positional play will impact roles somewhat, however, good tactics that were well thought out will still work in the current game.  I think in this edition there is better "space management" by other roles when "rotational roles" move around.  Some might think that congested narrow systems might be forced into space with the new changes, but actually that's not really true. Narrow attacking systems like the Xmas tree, 4312 and the 442 Diamond are fun to play now too.

I can see that but tactics that were about overloading would need to be re-thought as  the AI is actively not overloading. 

[Rashidi]

49 minutes ago, Amarante said:

I can see that but tactics that were about overloading would need to be re-thought as  the AI is actively not overloading. 

U can still do diagonal and lateral overloads

[tat501]

Wasn't going to buy this years version, thinking to wait until the new match engine next year.  But this feature is actually changing my mind.  Fantastic stuff. 

[ryandormer]

4 hours ago, Rashidi said:

Generally you start by reading the description of the role, which I am sure you have done, then we look at the duty of each role which suggest somewhat how attacking its going to be. Finally I would pay attention to the attributes, a RPM is more likely to move around the pitch and do rotations compared to another role like a Regista which if you check their attributes don't have physical attributes listed as key to the role. Ultimately it takes time and practice to identify them for yourself which is generally the best thing to do. Everyone learns by trying different things.

 

I agree, I've been trying them all out, but I'm struggling to see as big a difference this year as last.

All round, I much prefer this match engine, I think it's the best version so far by a long way.

But I'm having to re-learn what each role will do in my tactic. For example, I'm playing a standard 433 at the moment. On one side of the pitch, I have an IW(s) and Mez(a). Last year, I found that they would swap positions regularly--IW coming inside, and Mez floating outside. This year, when the Mez moves up into the AM strata, the IW stays wide, and the Mez sticks to the middle. So I'm struggling to work out the practical difference in my tactic between a Mez(a), a CM(a), or even a BBM. Also I don't see a huge difference between the IW(s) and W(s). Might just come down to watching more of the game to see slightly more subtle differences this year.

[DarJ]

2 hours ago, ryandormer said:

Also I don't see a huge difference between the IW(s) and W(s)

For one game change your Mez to a CM on support for example and you will see that the IW will go inside. When there is someone already in the space your IW will remain wide until the space is vacated while the winger will always stay wide unless you ask him to cut inside 

[Jack Sarahs]

18 hours ago, matty2323 said:

Fantastic information - really appreciated and informative.

Im curious, in real life i like my teams to play a narrow 4-4-2 diamond. 1 x DM, 2 x B2B CMs and 1 x AM. Traditionally in these formations the FBs are required to provide the width. However, depending on opposition shape, our 2 x B2Bs had the freedom to pull wide and turn the diamond in a wide 4-4-2 diamond and we would have the FBs stay narrower or even invert into central spots. 

Im looking to emulate this in FM but I note that alot of the CM "rotations" involve vertical movements (CM to AM etc) but im curious if any of these roles allow horizontal and vertical rotations for midfielders?

If you play a 4-2-3-1 with DM’s and one of them (LCDM) is a Segundo Volante for example, when he rotates up to the AMCL area your AMC will rotate horizontally to the AMCR area. 

[NCFCRossky]

This is very impressive but this is the kind of stuff that puts me off getting the game. Wayyy to much to get my head around.

[Lasson]

58 minutes ago, Jack Sarahs said:

If you play a 4-2-3-1 with DM’s and one of them (LCDM) is a Segundo Volante for example, when he rotates up to the AMCL area your AMC will rotate horizontally to the AMCR area. 

That is exactly what I am experiencing with my 4-2-3-1. My VOL(a) occupies the left half space and my AM(s) slides over to the right half space.

[CRN711]

I want my team to attack and defend like :

I tried this 

But the WPs doesn't come in the center of the field enough when attacking. 

Any tips ? 

[VinceLombardi]

1 hour ago, CRN711 said:

I want my team to attack and defend like :

I tried this 

But the WPs doesn't come in the center of the field enough when attacking. 

Any tips ? 

Inverted Winger (A) if you are trying to get them to focus more on runs-on-goal and scoring. 

Inverted Winger (S) if you are trying to get them to play a more creative role and stick more in the space between the lines. 

Inverted Winger (S) with get further forward if you want a bit of both. 

I would also recommend having them sitting narrower to allow more space for the Wingbacks to rush up on the flank.

If you need to push them further inside, you can also try to add roam from position and switching the Complete Wingbacks to just Wingbacks on attack. That will hardcode the Wingbacks to the flank, as Complete Wingbacks will roam inside sometimes. And if your Inverted Wingers are also roaming, that can actually cause them to move outside to make room for the Complete Wingback making an odd run through the middle. That said, if you have the players for it, you might want that sort of variation in your attack to make it more unpredictable. 

 

Edited October 21, 2023 by VinceLombardi

[vrig]

2 hours ago, CRN711 said:

I want my team to attack and defend like :

I tried this 

But the WPs doesn't come in the center of the field enough when attacking. 

Any tips ? 

Have all your mids push up with attack duties and use IWBs to form the double pivot?

[martplfc1]

If you have to be able to understand and analyse tactics like this to enjoy the game, then I'm not going to last long. 

[Amarante]

4 hours ago, vrig said:

Have all your mids push up with attack duties and use IWBs to form the double pivot?

Double Volante on Attack Duty  Iwb on support to occupy the midfield as a pivot I wouldn't use WCB though. and W-A duty would be better than Wide playmakers imho 

[CRN711]

@VinceLombardi Thanks for your answer! I changed the CWB to WB-A, WP to IW-S with Get Further Forward/Sit Narrower/Roam from position, and changed the VOL back to BWM as I tought the VOL would move to AM spot instead of one of the IW.

Played a few games but still the same issue in the build up, the IW are too wide therefore my players don't always have the right passing opportunity and lose the ball. 

I only saw then going narrower enough one time in the build up :

Will try to make them IW-A but I don't think it will solve this issue.

I have to say that even if we don't play the way I want, we are not playing -so- badly. In some games we struggle to create really good opportunities but in the last 10 games we lost 2 (against PSG and Sevilla), drew 3 and won 5 (including game against Monaco, Porto and Lille). 

@vrig @Amarante Saldy I don't have the players to play with IWB. 

[VinceLombardi]

1 hour ago, CRN711 said:

@VinceLombardi Thanks for your answer! I changed the CWB to WB-A, WP to IW-S with Get Further Forward/Sit Narrower/Roam from position, and changed the VOL back to BWM as I tought the VOL would move to AM spot instead of one of the IW.

Played a few games but still the same issue in the build up, the IW are too wide therefore my players don't always have the right passing opportunity and lose the ball. 

I only saw then going narrower enough one time in the build up :

Will try to make them IW-A but I don't think it will solve this issue.

I have to say that even if we don't play the way I want, we are not playing -so- badly. In some games we struggle to create really good opportunities but in the last 10 games we lost 2 (against PSG and Sevilla), drew 3 and won 5 (including game against Monaco, Porto and Lille). 

@vrig @Amarante Saldy I don't have the players to play with IWB. 

On the team instruction side, do you have the team to attack narrow? Can you make it more narrow or do you have it maxed?

Also one thing to remember about rotations is that they depend on where you are on the pitch. They don't immediately make the rotation when you recover possession. Early in the buildup, your wide players are going to stay wide. They typically won't come central until the transition from the middle third into that attacking third.

If you want them central throughout the buildup, then you might want to consider moving them into the MCL & MCR strata and then using man marking instructions to give them specific defensive instructions to get them where you need them on defense. This will cause them to move central from their defensive assignments immediately when you recover possession. (Note that if you do this, you might actually have to reverse to narrow instructions above to playing wide to get some of your width back.)

Another option is to tick the team instructions to attack on both the right and left flanks. This instruction doesn't actually tell your players where to go with the ball, rather it increases the attacking mentality of the player on the effected flank. This could get those players to get inside quicker in the middle third, but it's also going to make those Wingbacks more aggressive, so you might want to tone them back down to WB(S) w/gets further forward to offset it if it's too much.

These last 2 options are definitely big changes though and will have knock-on effects to other players and the team as whole. That may or may not be a good thing and definitely will require observation and further tweaks. Also expect that further game patches are likely to effect AI some too, so you might want to give it until mid November or so before you really sink a huge amount of time/effort into perfecting it.

(Also note that player traits could have significant effects here and have not really been discussed. Specifically, something like "moves into channels" would be have a very large effect on the final movement which is why sometimes the player itself is as important as the instructions.)

Edited October 22, 2023 by VinceLombardi

[Amarante]

2 hours ago, CRN711 said:

Saldy I don't have the players to play with IWB. 

Ignore positions just look at attributes. FM is a game of numbers and if you have players that have the attributes regardless of their position they will work there

 

[Fritz13]

13 hours ago, Amarante said:

Ignore positions just look at attributes. FM is a game of numbers and if you have players that have the attributes regardless of their position they will work there

 

This 

 

DMs can make great IWBs and LIBs.

[Cultured Left Foot]

13 hours ago, Amarante said:

Ignore positions just look at attributes. FM is a game of numbers and if you have players that have the attributes regardless of their position they will work there

 

This is such a wildly underrated part of the game. I've used natural strikers in CM before because of attributes. "A Game of Numbers" is exactly the best way to describe FM.

[Fraser]

If you want to give all of your players less freedom to improvise or ignore instructions then isn't the Team Instruction "Be More Disciplined" basically the same as saying "Do what I tell you"?

I'm guessing that each player's teamwork and decisions stats might impact how closely they follow that, but I often use that instruction when playing around with tactics.