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VinceLombardi

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Everything posted by VinceLombardi

  1. Going way back, the DLP(d) supposidly climbed the support mentality ladder instead of the defend mentality ladder. Now, I'm sure that a number of things have changed in the role coding since that post, but with the fact that roles have hard coded behavior, I suspect that there are still relics of this behavior in the code. It might be bias comformation and entirely accedotal, but I feel like the role gets more involved in supporting the attack than most defend duties would. But then in defense they play much more like the other defensive roles/duties. But bottom line, it works well for me, so I haven't had any reason to change it.
  2. Lots of great and topical information above. Tactically, I do the same thing in lower leagues that I do in upper leagues.But I change what I look for in players to play the positions. In upper leagues, you can have good, well-rounded players and superstars that dominate the game. Neither are likely in lower leagues. Balanced players are typically worse across the board compared to others at their level and superstars are quickly snapped up by higher leagues. Instead I focus on role players and seek out attribute combinations that are specific to that role. For example, my STC are all about physicals so that they can fight for space in the box. I'll take strikers with like 5 finishing, if they are absolute physical freaks, because that's what I need at that spot. My DMs are basically CD and have crap ball handling and passing, but that doesn't stop them from getting played as DLP or Registras and leading my team in passing stats. By focusing on what you need, you can identify the players that will play above their attributes for you. That let's you get more out of a lesser player. Basically, each player does less stuff well, but the few things they do well are so good compared to the opposition, that they can turn a game with individual moments of brilliance when the stars align. It then becomes my job to design a tactic that more frequently aligns those stars for them.
  3. I play my single DM formations with a DLP (d) all the time as I think it's a great single pivot role. My DMs are almost always a converted CD who don't quite have good enough physicals for CD (typically either too slow or lack jumping). They rarely are technically strong and always play very well for me. But I'm only ever looking for them to recycle possession and be ready to defend in case of a turnover.
  4. I love what you've got going on and I think you've got the right approach. As something that you might want to experiment with, but isn't necessarily better, is having both DM as DM (s) with hold position, tighter marking, and close down more. They create a nice double pivot that gets a bit more advanced, but still stays where it needs to be to defend a quick counter. Also, by having both with mark tighter and close down more, you have reduntant defenders right in front. One will step forward to challenge ball carriers while the other stays back to prevent the pass behind. And they will switch off those duties pretty well. This lets your CD focus more on their cover duties and not need to play that stopper role and mitigates the impact of the defensive line position some. Just an idea. Not saying it's better. It's just a pair that has been very effective for me over the years and across a lot of versions.
  5. A lot of this can be done with PI and TI. I set up a defense that does this in my American Football thread. I use a higher LoE and more urgent pressing TI and my midfielders and strikers have close down more PI. This gets them all aggressively pressing and forcing the opponent to pass the ball. Then I use tighter marking PI and TI on my defensive midfielders and wing backs to get them into position to jump those passes. I prioritize workrate in my players and roster. It's rather high for my lower league team, but not much higher than the players you mentioned. Theoretically, it should work for your players, but there is a possibility that opposing team's higher relative workrate will take the edge off it and make it less effective.
  6. American Football Returns to FM 19 I am happy to introduce y’all to my revamped American Football system for FM 19 where I show you how to play real football with a soccer ball. If you have no idea what I’m talking about and want a bit of background of what I mean, you can check out my American Football system from FM 16. And for everybody else, strap on your helmets, because an American who still knows next to nothing about soccer is about to tell you how to play your sport. Alright, joking aside, I am super excited about what I’ve got going over here because this year’s tactical system combined with the new roles from the last couple years have allowed me to create what I honestly fell short of in the previous system: a true playbook. And although this is still a work in progress, I’ve got enough here already and done enough concept testing to say that this is as close to the real deal as I’m ever going to be able to do. But before I get too far ahead of myself, a quick explanation of what I am doing: I apply American Football concepts to soccer to create a dynamic and entirely different way to approach to tactics and gameplay. And true to my inspiration, I am now able to do it with different personnel packages, formations, alignments, and an actual playbook in a manner that works almost like the real deal. Now be forewarned. The original system was a lot to take in and this new version dwarfs the previous. It’s truly a monster. So like before, I’m going to hide as much as possible behind spoiler tags to help keep it navigable and reduce scroll and load times. Also, because this is a work in progress, I will link useful posts later in the thread in the final post so that they are more easily located. Also if/when there are significant permanent changes to the system, instructions, etc, I will try to update them in the top posts so that it stays current. Terminology Just to ensure clarity I am going to take a moment to explain a few terms that you will see me use throughout this thread. Most are football terms converted for use in my system. Also note before we get started: Typically, when I say football, I mean “football” sport of the American variety with the oblong ball. When I mean the sport where one must use their foot to kick the round ball, I will refer to it as soccer. Packages, Formations, Alignments, and Plays Describing Space: Line of Scrimmage, Gaps, and Passing Zones Types of Matchups and Mismatches Leading edge, offensive screen, and playing between the lines My System Objectives It’s of paramount importance to set forth the objectives and goals before you begin designing elements. For this system I have most of the same high level goals as the previous system. On Defense: “Bend but don’t break” On Offense: “Run to Daylight” Shape. Shape. Shape.
  7. VinceLombardi

    My guide to hoofball

    Any word on Brunt? Has he handled promotion well?
  8. VinceLombardi

    American Football Returns

    Away vs big boys, you are likely facing a more aggressive attack. Cover is the answer. Honestly it's likely my most used TI.
  9. Agree 100% with this and I agree this is the direction the game should go. And I would argue it does. The removal of shape (which was as confusing as it was useful), splitting attack, defending, and transitions in tactical. Constantly adding new roles to keep up with new play styles. 2016->2019 has led to a lot of improvements with this design goal in mind. Totally disagree with this. The tweakers would largely just find other areas to improve and work at, while leaning on that area of the ME as a strength. They will find other ways to squeeze that little extra, because that's what they enjoy. And while a few may want more of a challenge in playing the game, its not at the expense of simulation or central play. Rather I think they would agree that a stronger strategic AI (better transfer policy, training, youth, scouting, etc.) would be a much better starting point for SI to put its efforts to create that challenge vs artificially and unrealistically nerfing the play in central area as you suggest they are supporting. Appreciate it. And I am similarly not trying to suggest that you are part of the problem or not trying to solve it in the appropriate manner. Quite the contrary, I think you make some good points and I wish I had more understanding of RL soccer so that I could better understand them. My only issue mainly concerns your suggestion that the tweakers don't want a better, more realistic ME. I think that's off base and misses the point of what many of us enjoy doing. Further, my saying that complaints about the central areas are overblown isn't to suggest that there aren't issues there. I miss my DLF(s) and the SS(a) from FM16. They definitely don't play as well in this ME. And it is an area that could be improved. But to call the entire ME broken or unplayable, as some have, is an over exaggeration of the issue.
  10. VinceLombardi

    American Football Returns

    In terms of formations, 34, Nickel Base (not wide or deep formations), and Singleback have had the most testing. For all 3 I have spent a lot of time in Base play. Crashes are likely next as they have been used as jumping off points for other plays. Sweeps less so, but also tested more than the rest.
  11. Then put the attack duty on one if the central midfielders. If everybody is support, then nobody is looking to lead the attack forward. As a result they all stand around and are very slow to get forward. Even just one attack duty will help the rest, because that player will run forward and the others will follow him in support. You can also use "get further forward" PI, but if they run into traffic then they stop. The attack duty isn't about turning a player into a scorer trying to get on goal. The role and position still determines what they areally trying to do. Attack duty just identifies that this player will move forward more quickly and play more aggressively as compared to a support role.
  12. The work around is to change the TI pressing back to normal. Make the PI to close down more. And then put the TI pressing back to urgent. I doubt it actually changes their pressing to be higher, but it will show on the PI. And if at a later time you switch the TI, your close down more PI will kick in to keep pressing higher for that particular player.
  13. That's because nobody in the midfield has an attack duty.
  14. I think that this is a bit of a misrepresentation. Your tactical tweakers are less likely to be completely stifled by the engine as they use a larger part of the toolbox -- borrowing from the analogy earlier in the thread. This enables them to better adapt to what the ME is doing, and they avoid the pitfalls more easily. Issues in the ME are not new. In FM16 (last time I was forum active) there were threads every week discussing about how: -IWBs were trash because they didn't go inside (they didn't), -TM would break any tactic and turn it into hoofball (they did), -it was impossible to build a team around defense (it was very difficult to keep cleansheets game to game as CD did not play well vs shortpassing games), -gegenpressing was almost impossible to emulate properly because your guys didn't close down in the other half well (it was finicky and required a lot of PI), -strikers and wide attackers didn't track back in defense (the solution was playing back in midfield strata, STC never did anything in defense, even the defensive forwards) -players forced the ball to playmakers, even if they weren't open (they did, lacking other open options) -counterattacking football wasn't possible (getting the counterattack event was finicky, and the only other way was to build attacking mentality tactics) Up until a few weeks ago, I avoided all ball magnet roles because of the issues they caused in FM16. I still have never built a tactic featuring a player in the AML or AMR position because I have learned to play my MR and ML the same way, without worrying about defensive issues. I built a counter attacking tactic in FM 16 by abusing the highly structured team shape, attacking roles, and the highly attacking team mentality, because defensive mentalities were incredibly difficult to get to work. Its not that any of those things were how it was suppose to work or representative of RL. It shouldn't have been that difficult for a lot of those things. But by experimenting, the "tactical tweakers" were able to work around the shortcomings of the ME. It wasn't magic. It was hours of experimentation and watching matches. Its also not that the tactical tweakers are ME apologists. We just understand that ME shortcomings are always part of the game and rather than declare the ME broken because the F9 doesn't work right, we try to find other ways to get what we want and then share it with one another here on the forum. Collectively we overcome. And while ideal simulation would be awesome, we are working with what is here and trying to show others how to use the tools that we all have available. Nothing more, nothing less. Some of the behavior of the AI described in this thread is definitely suspect and when that was the case, we have encouraged that they be logged as bugs. But in many cases, its not problems that are representative of a ME issue. For every "I Can't score because of stupid defensive AI" thread there is another "How do I stop the AI from scoring" thread. What is it? Is the AI too passive or too attacking? Or is it maybe neither and better explained by the way various individuals are approaching their tactics and the circumstances of their save? @bar333 is on some sort of crazy unbeaten streak. It prolly causes bugs with the AI evaluating its winning chances. Log it. @tajj7 has issues in his 2025 save. I have a sneaking suspicion that he has 10 of the top 20 players in the world thanks to an aggressive transfer policy and he is the 1st place team to the 2nd place Man City he had issue with. Would that cause an AI issue? I dunno. Maybe. Log it. In both cases, maybe the AI just decided that they would try to get out of the match with as few goals against as possible to not screw up their GD and hope that another team beats you so that they can win the league that way. That's not unreasonable. I dunno. Log it so that SI can confirm or resolve. But at the end of the day, no ME (or game) is perfect. At some point complaining just doesn't seem productive and if people really want to influence the game direction they need to be actively logging .pkm for SI. That will have way more impact than any thread or post here.
  15. VinceLombardi

    American Football Returns

    Yeah. I still need to work on that stuff too. I'm trying to have more options than I need, but still avoid too many options. Each revision cycle allows me an opportunity to cut the fringes and work with the best parts of the previous cycle as a starting point. With so much stuff, I don't want to waste my time improving something that might never be good enough. And each revision cycle I more or less follow the layers improving each area in turn before moving on to the next. So being in the revision 3 cycle, layer 2 currently, when I get around to revamping the plays in this cycle, I should have a much better toolbox for designing those plays. The Libero (a) has close down less, so that it operates like the rest of the CD, focusing on A gap control in defense. And also more direct passing, so that he has the passing range to work the entire field from his spot at the back like a DLP. Even if he doesn't have the skill or mentals, I want him to have all his options. It doesn't take a brilliant or skilled passer to get the ball to a free WB on the far flank. But without more direct passing, he won't even be looking for him. And with less options, I expect he will be more likely to try to force a pass into a tight spot, something he clearly lacks the ability to do. IMO, the less I let him do, the more likely he is to do something bad.
  16. Lots of good points above. As for role changes, I would look at both the DM and the STCs as good areas to look to improve. The DM really needs to stay in position in defense and so a BMW role that draws him out would leave the CD exposed. You are helping the opposing attack a lot in destabilizing your shape. Second, with the strikers, what does the PF (a) and AF (a) give you that you can't get out of the other? Both are going to aggressively get forward in attack, play long balls, and stick around the CD when in defense. Sure they do it slightly differently, but at the macro level, it's the same things. It's clear from your gegenpressing starting location and use of multiple BWM, that you are trying to generate pressure on the opposing attack. I would take the time to explore and flesh out how you want that to work more fully. If you want pressure from just 1-2 players, then your BWM roles will get you that. But if you want it team wide or at least spread across multiple players, then those roles aren't really needed. Instead you will need to look at how to to accomplish it. Team wide, you can use urgent pressing and higher LoE. But if it's just a few players, you can use close down more TI, and make other players more aggressive to identify what group applies the pressure (like maybe all 3 CM). Finally, it's worth thinking about what the opposing team is going to do in response to that pressure. Typically that's going to be passing either up the field into space vacated by the closing down player, or a backpass to a holding midfielder. You are going to want to be ready to respond to those more likely solutions and make them unattractive or at least more difficult to be successful for the other team. If there is always an easy answer to counter your pressure, then it's not really helping you much or hurting them. Coming full circle, you can use your DM and FBs to help cover the recievers of passes forward, and bring back a STC to harass that holding midfielder. The Marks Tighter PI is useful in this regard as it makes your defenders latch on to players that enter their area. In terms of getting a STC involved in defense, particularly vs holding midfielders, I have found the PF (s) and TM (s) roles to be useful -- though I'm sure other roles are helpful too. In the end, try to think ahead. If I do X, then they do Y. How do I take away Y? Now that I am doing Z to take away Y, what are they going to do next? By thinking ahead like this, you can develop a more cohesive defensive strategy and will get better results.
  17. VinceLombardi

    American Football Returns

    Thank you for the database. I'm having a great time with my Green Bay Packers.
  18. VinceLombardi

    American Football Returns

    Yep. There was a Head Coach game, which was super promising. But it never got off the ground as a franchise. Madden 2005(?) let you design plays. That was pretty awesome too. Sad to see it go.
  19. VinceLombardi

    American Football Returns

    Finally an extra post for parting thoughts and links to useful posts later in the thread. I would like to put a big "Thank You" for @wkdsoul who designed the database I'm playing. It features a Premier League modeled pyramid which includes all the teams across all the major sports (MLB, NBA, NFL, NHL, MLS).
  20. VinceLombardi

    American Football Returns

    Football as an Inspiration While it’s clear that I am heavily influenced by my football background in designing this system, I thought it might be helpful for me to point out and explain some of the elements I have taken and how they inform the system. Defense as a model for shape and space Blocking Passing Concepts
  21. VinceLombardi

    American Football Returns

    Putting it all together: Match Day When I watch a match I look for a few specific things, which dictate what TI and plays I want to run. This particular bit is rather new to me as I only started really adjusting to my opponents and flexing my system the last 5-10 games of the season. Prior to that I was so focused on testing plays that I didn’t pay much attention to what they did. I watch all matches on Comprehensive Highlights. Middle Third On attack Standout players What I want to see on Defense
  22. VinceLombardi

    American Football Returns

    Putting it all together: My Playbook As a disclaimer, this is very much a work in progress. I spent half a season concept testing and half a season putting together these plays. Some, like the 34 plays, are much more thoroughly tested than others because they fit my personnel on my roster. And some, like the Twins and Trips stuff are still very much concept testing that haven’t seen much attention, which is why the formations weren’t included above. I can say everything has at least been tested in matches to ensure that it at least gets close to the mark and nothing should be complete crap. But thats no guarantee its good. A lot of it needs work yet. I also want to point out that because this is all a work in progress, I do not guarantee that any of it is a perfect match for the player roles as laid out above, and there player roles used in the plays that I didn’t include in the post. This is because I am currently between the 2nd and 3rd revisions of my system and I forsee, at minimum, a 4th revision before I am happy with the playbook. Most of these plays are 2nd revision designs, but the roles above are what I am starting with going into my 3rd revision. Moving forward, I am looking forward to this next season as I want to expand the roles I use and introduce more tools to create more varied plays. I expect to be adding at least 2-3 roles to each midfield position before the season is up. I design following the layers above, so I expect it will be most of a season before I get back to designing plays and updating these for the new roles. Finally, I’m not going much into the plays and will only likely mention a few with any comments. This post is long enough without me writing a paragraph for each, finding screenshots, etc. I’m largely just going to throw these up so that those interested can check them out for themselves and use them for jumping off points for their own versions of the system. The Playbook
  23. VinceLombardi

    American Football Returns

    Layer 5: Designing Plays and Making a Playbook Now it’s time for the fun part, actually making plays. But before I let my creativity go wild, I need to establish my “Base” play that will be the template from which all other plays are built. In determining what your base play is, you are going to look back to your high level system goals and use them to guide your design. Additionally you will want to consider your TI options and conceptualize how you see those affecting your base default. For this entire process we are going to stick with the 34 formation, since it’s my most developed and the one I am most familiar with. Base play Designing Plays My naming convention
  24. VinceLombardi

    American Football Returns

    Layer 4: Conceptualizing Play Design Now that all the pieces are in place, it’s time to create the plays and the playbook. While my roles and duties definitely influence my defensive shape, I expect all of my roles for each position to defend more or less the same. So while my defense first approach significantly influences my TI, PI, and formations, my plays are all about my offense. Play Design: System Objectives That means going way back to the beginning, back to the “Run to Daylight” approach I want for my system from the first post. And while I expect my players to make decisions for themselves in the moment, I want to set them up for success. That means I need to give them multiple options to allow them to take what the defense gives them. If they have limited options they may feel more inclined to force a situation that just isn’t going to work. I’m going to manifest my “Run to Daylight” approach by sticking to 3 basic rules: 1) Use the Whole Field 2) Be Efficient 3) Maximize our opportunities Play Design: Creating Options As I’ve already identified, I’m all about creating options for my guys and then letting them choose the best in the moment. Run to Daylight. That leaves me to create the options within each play for the likely scenarios they will face. If I give them good options, then I should have good results from their decisions. As with most of this system, these options are typically going to depend on my shape. Get the Ball to the Middle Third First Pass to Start an Attack Attack Option 1: Attack defenders out of position to get the ball into the box for a shot Attack Option 2: Make the defense react to me with the ball in dangerous locations Attack Option 3: Get the ball to a “safe” location Attack Option 4: Force the ball into the box
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