*Football Manager 2009 feedback- FIRST IMPRESSIONS THREAD*

[spankie]

I've just had something happen in a game that I've never seen before.

The opposition's keeper ran out to intercept a pass out near the corner flag and punted it long right to one of my player who took one touch and shot from 45 yards into an empty net.

In FM08 they just passed the ball instead of taking a chance with a shot \o/

The nice thing is that it earnt my 9 man side a draw after a red card and injury after making all my subs.

[theboydonegood]

uninstalled this:

> Press Conferences are tiresome, repetitive and add nothing

> Tactics are a mess, a combination of incomprehensible sliders that all effect each other in ways that are not clear or explained.

> Its a joke that I cant place players where I want on the pitch, I cant simply say to my full backs overlap the winger, or tell my wingers to cut in.

> The match engine is going backwards, players have far too much time on the ball and my fullbacks seem incapable of marking the opposition wingers without me telling them to man mark, which is ridiculous.

> the whole thing now is a big bloaty gimmicky mess and the core of the game is rotten, the tactics needs scrapping and starting again it is so bad its absolutely laughable.

I have been playing this series since its inception way back when and I think this is going to be the first time in about ten years that I have not bought on release day.

Really really disappointed.

Just bought 01/02 fromm ebay and I am going to play that and go back to the days when it wasnt a big bloaty monolithic mess.

I shant be playing this series again until the tactics side of things is sorted.

[wardog]

started with Rangers. Found it a good game although tactics that have worked for me since CM03/04 very well are failing and i feel some players are madly over rated and some madly under rated. Novo scores too many and Boyd does everything but score. Other than that the only otehr problem i found which i think may be a demo problem is their is way too many injuries. Oh and too low a transfer budget.

[T4RG4]

I've been playing a little more this evening, and I have to say the game has potential (I skipped '08, stuck with '07). Unfortunately its a little too shoddy for my own liking at the moment.

* The new Match Engine seems to have slowed the game down a lot (My PC is relatively quick/able/clean)

* Who thought it a good idea to create the match only when the Match Engine (viewable) was requested? Create it when players click to start the match

* 2D and 2D Classic are not as easy on the eye as previous versions (tiny, tiny text)

* A lot of the GUI and process of getting into/out of games feels so very clunky - lots of icons all over the place... I thought you were making it more accessible?

* Clicking a pitch advertiser and loading Firefox/IE/Opera (delete as you wish) is silly (and can accidentally occur in its clunky state)

* The matches now have a tendency to stutter, I've not seen this on previous versions

* The GUI, overall, is laid out in a questionable fasion... buttons to access information you're looking at in one area of the screen sometimes placed miles away

* The skin doesnt kill my eyes this year - congrats

* One match speed slider... either slow text and highlights or fast text and highlights - you made a mistake removing the option for fast text/normal highlights

* The press conferences are nice in theory, I'm just hoping they dont become a grind

* Looking through your squad, on profile pages and moving screen to screen there is an excessive (minor yes, but noticeable) delay in displaying these screens

* The stadiums... or should I say the ropey boxes that appear in certain views. Very dissapointing (especially if you expect the community to fill all this in)

* Shame the tactics feel completely untouched (save for removing some control over arrows)

There are plenty of nice little information updates and extra (admittedly minor) features here and there for me to see (especially as I skipped last years game after playing the demo) and that is most appealing. Unfortunately the downers come across as poor implementation at this stage, it looks almost finished but not quite there. I know you release patches every year for your games, and that there will be one on release which I applaud, but I dont think you'll be fixing everything I've mentioned here. Some will, I admit, be fixed by the community but that means waiting and is a little hit and miss. Would be nicer if the game was polished out of the box (I dont expect every bug to be fixed on release, never have).

Thing is, I have a solid '07 installed, which I could go back to and perhaps go for Lower League Management, something I normally avoid - if only to introduce a new game feel. There are lots of things I'll be missing out on though, features from both 08 and 09 that some will not be able to do without. Whether or not I can go back to it... hmm, not sure! Stopped playing a while back in anticipation of 09.

I'm thinking I'll keep tabs on the game, because it probably will end up being great. There are just a few, questionable, design and implementation decisions, there were with the last version too. I dont particulary care if there are too many injuries and repeating key presses at this stage, they should be easy fixes passed to everyone with the ability to find them on day one.

Overall - Good start, just not quite there yet. Will wait and watch from afar

[crustyjuggler]

It doesn't have the option "assistant manager take control on friendlies"!

Where are those manager options?

Yes it does. Go to the managersettings

[Jimmyt]

my fullbacks seem incapable of marking the opposition wingers without me telling them to man mark

True.

I lose count of the numbe rof goals I concede when their winger gets a free run.

[neilb242]

First impression - looks neat and tidy, bit brighter maybe?

Press conference - Seems very similar to the media questions on 08. I put a lot of neutral answers to the questions and it said I wasn't in the best of moods! Think it may get old pretty quick, but as on 08, once you learn the correct responses can prob be used effectively.

Game - 3D looks average, not that impressive, but then thats not the point, its more for representing whats happening on the pitch, not to wow me with graphics. Thought it had frozen till I saw it was set on highlights. Just played one friendly, nothing happened at all, seemed to just be one shot all game from either side. It wasn't immediately clear how to access tactics and other options, but thats what the manual is for I guess.

Plenty of things I haven't tried, so not gonna make a sweeping statement. I was just left thinking, this has potential to be very good, but I'm just weary of the time it may take per game, and that the 3D display may have a detrimental impact on the whole match day experience. SI didn't need to add this for me to want this game, I liked the way they didn't pander to graphical snobbery.

[cornelius11]

I like 09, except the injuries bug.

I went rangers, and although there were already about 4 first team players already injured irl at the start of the season it didnt help when i got hit with a further 7 injuries during pre-season!!!

I think the 3d match engine is much more watchable than the old 2d version. OK some strange things happen on the field sometimes but this kind of stuff happened in 2d too, we can just see it in more detail because its 3d.

Loving the ass man input, and motivation features too.

Taking the ridiculous injuries out of the equation, I prefer 09 to 08 already.

[Schotsmannetje]

Let me tell you something funny. I'm playing with Man U right now in FM2009. I put in a bid of 1.5 million for Georginio Wijnaldum (check him out, he's a true gem, both IRL and in the game, I have had a season ticket for his club Feyenoord for 5 years now , he's already played 1.5 years for the first team and he's only 17 years old). Well anyway, they negotiated the bid. Guess how much they're asking now?

1 million.

Huh?!

I know Feyenoord has bad financial management, but this is ridiculous haha.

I like the game so far though, although it's not communicating very well with my mouse. I get secondary-click-menus when I use the primary click, and sometimes I get menus popping up which I didn't even click. And I'vee been playing CM and FM for almost 10 years now so I know how the game works so that can't be it.

[Ryknow]

Full of annoy bugs as mentioned in the above posts

Do the SI team not test the game? I cant see how they expect people to buy the game, like FM08 without the patches was not a 'finished' product.

FM is great once the patches are out, eg. My FM08 game is awesome atm.

Guess I will wait till patches are out. Dissapointing

[AIK]

+ I like the small things, like new statistics and information.

+ Media seems better, the first press conference was fun. They always say that they are upgrading the media part of the game but this seems like the first time they actually did some noticeable changes.

- 3D was incredible bad. Worthless.

- LOADING TIME IN 2D!!! Why? Why? Why? Let me completely turn off 3D, let me remove that crap from the game/computer and then play 2D without the loading time. Game-killer in the long run.

[maverick_nc1]

The too much space thing -

It is definitely the Mentality settings, had the same problem myself. Make sure the mentality settings for all of your players are close together and the issue will be solved.

Am i the only one who finds the Ass man advice rather annoying? Sure i could ignore him but if its constructive advice then it must be listened to. I constantly find myself going in and out of the tactics screen during a match to apply the changes my Ass man recommends. Feels a little like im just doing what im told insead of being in charge, dumbed down for newbies??

As for the tyyyyyppiiing isssssueeee, as someone mentioned earlier we ALL noticed this on our first search so why the hell didnt SI?? If they can miss or not test something this small then makes me VERY wary about what else has been tested poorly.....

Dont mean to be a moaner, i will be buying the game as always. Just feel a tad let-down.

[backpackant]

Let me tell you something funny. I'm playing with Man U right now in FM2009. I put in a bid of 1.5 million for Georginio Wijnaldum (check him out, he's a true gem, both IRL and in the game, I have had a season ticket for his club Feyenoord for 5 years now , he's already played 1.5 years for the first team and he's only 17 years old). Well anyway, they negotiated the bid. Guess how much they're asking now?

1 million.

Huh?!

I know Feyenoord has bad financial management, but this is ridiculous haha.

Are they asking for £1million plus a sell-on clause? I've often had clubs do this on FM08. Lower financial risk to the buying club with a future fee for the selling club. Win-win. But when you know the player's PA, it makes more sense to buy them out completely.

[backpackant]

I just played the demo on a PC that works and the minor niggles are very minor. The game is fantastic and 3D looks brilliant.

Unfortunately I won't be buying it unless they can get the Intel chip issue fixed, which seems to be why my way-above-spec 9-month-old laptop crashes 9 times out of 10 and when it does play I only get a jerky, headache-inducing 3D experience. I don't care that much about 3D, although it does work like a dream on the right PC, but I would like to play in 2D occasionally if my PC isn't up to the full game.

On the down side (generally) the game is too slow. I'd like the match-speed sliders back please -- I used to play with commentary on fastest setting and 2d graphics on slightly faster than "normal". It's taken me 2 hours to get to the first game of the season.

[Wakers]

agree with the sliders, so stupid to have them merged. Fast match with normal highlights please, at the moment i have to adjust the slider everytime a highlight starts, so stupid.

[Superman_uk123]

whenever i type it will do double letters and its really annyoing. anyone else getting this?

Yes!!!

I thought that I was going mad, and that it was just me!!

I get this problem as well, so I checked Word, and my typing was ok, but when I went to type something in, in the demo (say for example in the box below in the press conferences), everything came up double.

Many thanks for proving that it wasn't/isn't just me suffering from this problem.

[ExperiMental]

ok first post here. Love the FM series and love the new 3d.... but yeah as many ppl have said, omg the injuries!!!!!! played about 15 games with Man U and Scholes got broken leg, out for 6 months, Berbatov is now out for 3, Giggs for 1, hargreaves out for 1, Ronaldo got back to 98% fitness and is now out for 3..... think i'll just play my reserve team

[Schotsmannetje]

Are they asking for £1million plus a sell-on clause? I've often had clubs do this on FM08. Lower financial risk to the buying club with a future fee for the selling club. Win-win. But when you know the player's PA, it makes more sense to buy them out completely.

Yeah good point. They did ask for a 25% sell-on clause now you mention it. I guess it's more logical than I initially thought.

[The Rob]

uninstalled this:

> Press Conferences are tiresome, repetitive and add nothing

> Tactics are a mess, a combination of incomprehensible sliders that all effect each other in ways that are not clear or explained.

> Its a joke that I cant place players where I want on the pitch, I cant simply say to my full backs overlap the winger, or tell my wingers to cut in.

> The match engine is going backwards, players have far too much time on the ball and my fullbacks seem incapable of marking the opposition wingers without me telling them to man mark, which is ridiculous.

> the whole thing now is a big bloaty gimmicky mess and the core of the game is rotten, the tactics needs scrapping and starting again it is so bad its absolutely laughable.

I have been playing this series since its inception way back when and I think this is going to be the first time in about ten years that I have not bought on release day.

Really really disappointed.

Just bought 01/02 fromm ebay and I am going to play that and go back to the days when it wasnt a big bloaty monolithic mess.

I shant be playing this series again until the tactics side of things is sorted.

I agree with this completely. It's a no brainer for me on whether to buy or not, I already own 01/02 and FM07 - and they're much better and more playable. 08 messed up the match engine and it still hasn't been sorted. There are no new features that really mean anything.

Let's face it, the whole point of this game was the 3D engine, and it's utterly horrible.

[gianno]

I LOVE THIS GAME!

It is the best FM by far!

[Mike7077]

So I finally gave in and downloaded my first ever demo. I said I wouldn't do it, but I decided I had to be able to judge for myself before talking about it, so I went ahead and did it. Here are my impressions.

I decided to have a go as Roma and, firstly, I have to agree with haza555 that Real Madrid just do not leave you alone. There's about five of my squad that they are busy unsettling. So that's a bit annoying. But I can live with that. The first thing I noticed was how much cleaner the game looks. It's like they took the skin from FM08, toned it down and tidied it up, and now, in my opinion, it looks the best it's ever looked.

I really do like the press conferences. They haven't been as boring and repetitive as I expected, although some of the possible responses seem a bit odd and not all that well thought out. Having said that, I'm generally pretty pleased with the feature.

I can't really comment on the transfer system because I was only given £4million to spend and any player good enough for Roma generally costs more than that, so I haven't been active in the transfer market.

The 3D match engine was a bit of a shock at first. It wasn't what I was expecting. It looks less like real football than I was expecting. However, it looks much more like real football than 2D, so I would argue it's progress. For me, it flows beautifully and, once I got used to it, I almost began to feel like I'd been playing 3D my whole life!

As for the injuries bug, I've noticed it the way some others have. My squad hasn't ever been depleted. I just get a lot of minor knocks in the matches that require a substitution. It's a bit annoying, but if the patch happened to be delayed I could live with it.

Overall, so far, I'm relieved and very pleased to say that I have enjoyed my first taste of FM09. It is categorically not deserving of the reaction seen on these forums, in my opinion. However, I appreciate the frustrations of those who haven't been able to get it to work properly.

[Riz Remes]

- Club finances / Transfer budgest totally understated, Newcastle 5mil, ManUre 10mil, Liverpool 10mil...im afraid three clubs plus man MANY more have somewhat bigger budgets.

Oh and too low a transfer budget.

Again, the transfer budgets have been discussed in a few threads already, like this one for example: http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php?t=56623

The starting budgets are set for most teams based on what the researchers say the clubs have left in real life after their summer transfers. Yes, ManU spent around £30M this summer on Berbatov but that money has been spent already in real life and Berbatov starts with ManU in the game. So unless you are saying ManU had a transfer budget of £70M+ for this summer in real life, the £10M they have left at the game start sounds quite realistic to me as that would indicate they had about £40M to spend in real life this summer before the Berbatov transfer alone.

And like has been said over and over again in the transfer budget threads, the big clubs will naturally have higher transfer budgets in the following transfer windows in the game, it's only the first window at the start of the game where real life spending would have affected the budget you are left with. Hope this clears it up a bit again

[T4RG4]

Seems perfectly sensible to me. People are expecting 2nd season budgets in the first season...

It's tight at the start, when the previous manager has spent all your money Offload their players, it's meant to be easier to sell now.

[Viking]

The amount of player injuries are indeed annoying. After two played games in The Championship and some pre-season games with QPR I have nine first team players injuried, most of them on long terms (1-6 months). I refuse to belive this reflects the real life situation for football clubs.

[goatherd]

I appreciate the effort to solve the problems in time for release, but I certainly won't be buying unless I know there will be something for me to download on the 14th that will improve stability significantly. At the moment the game crashes at random in a variety of ways so numerous I can't be bothered with explaining them. I do quite like it, including the 3d engine, because I wasn't expecting FIFA 09 esque presentation levels like some people appear to have done. Media is also quite good. Realism is there, because I am playing as my beloved and we are arse - so very true to life!

But atm I can only sigh in frustration as my game crashes for the zillionth time. You know I don't think I've ever ended a session of my own free will...

I think Beta testing needs ramping up massively - last few FM's have had initial problems that have been fed back very very quickly, and it's bizarre they weren't caught before. This time round it's very frustrating considering how chronic and widespread some of the crashes are.

[303jonas]

CM 01/02 is so much better than FM2009.

My comments to the FM09 demo:

3D engine: I turned it off after one match. Totally unrealistic moving patterns, especially in the midfield. Midfielders seem to always have 10 meters to the nearest opponent. And often they just stand still with the ball for seconds.. What is going on there?? That was a turnoff.

Injuries: Has been mentioned in almost every post, so no reason to add anything here. Its a complete joke of course.

GUI: I do not find the GUI very intuitive during the match. Its confusing to switch between overview, tactic screens etc.. The CM 01/02 was absolutely perfect regarding this! Very simple.

Tactic screen: What happened with the arrows? Its extremely annoying that you cant make arrows point in the direction as you wish. Actually the CM 01/02 and the older version looked way better. Not impressive!

What I loved with CM 01/02 and the versions 5-6 years ago was the fantastic gameplay. I could play for months and keep playing. Now Im bored just by playing a couple of hours FM2009. The matches in CM 01/02, the great match overview etc - very simple and useful, few click to start a match. In FM2009 the match process has been completely overflooded with crap. Too much options and different views. To many clicks to start a game ruins it for me. I just click the continue button repetitively in order to get to the match.

I think the gameplay has weakened significantly since the old series and thats sad.

Maybe I should just buy CM 01/02 at ebay as one other guy did. With an updated database that would beat FM2009 by far. I guess no one agree with me on this... but thats my honest opinion.

[killimandros]

After playing the demo now since release, I am actually starting to enjoy the match engine. In particular following player movements, ball pattern and player decicions im enjoying it more and more. I might be crazy but I was never really interested in the eye candy, in my opinion this is the best ai so far.

[Klimowicz]

played a pre season game with juve today. the assman feedback at HT was puzzling, mellberg "made a lot of mistakes" yet had the highest match rating. 10/1 shot ratio too, i'll play a few more freindlies before i pass judgement, but so far i'm about 60% impressed

[bryrich]

totally ruined the game.......i've tried playing several teams and each poxy one keeps on losing saying "players still trying to blend in the team"!!!!!! why tinker so ****ing much with the game. I've loved this game since it was created but they have ruined this now - idiots!!!!

[Adam.S]

If it wasnt for SI you wouldnt even have had the chance of playing it. They cant please everyone....myself personally has never been so excited for a game since CM4

[anagain]

My first impressions (one match played) are very good.

- The game looks swish. The interface is polished and the new features blend in perfectly.

- The match engine is very good. I love the 3D and how it really feels like you are watching a match. Having the game on TV and having the interface options on the screen is what I have been wanting from FM for a long time. I can now sit and watch the action and have the player ratings, latest scores, formations or almost anything else wherever I want it. I just hope it saves for the next match.

- The AM comments addition is really very good and actually made sense to me. Okay so he's not going to get it right every time, and why should he, but it was something to think about. That's what it should be. Your AM is there to give you his thoughts and he does with this feature.

Not alot more that I can say yet. I very much doubt that I will play much more of the demo before release (I'm very much a detailed game man, and the demo's will always be a little light).

The injury problem that seems to be being encountered is what concerns me. I have 4 injuries (I think) after one game and, at the moment, that's not really a lot. They are all long injuries, however, and if I get more then it could be something to make the game less appealing if it is not fixed for release.

I really can't wait for this release after the last 45 minutes I spent playing.

[Ozzy38]

I'm not going to regard the opinion of someone who can't even think to the edge of the box, let alone outside it, when thinking up topic titles highly.

[backpackant]

Patience, little one. Patience. Tons of people are loving it and winning plenty. To react aggressively and impudently shows immaturity. Take it easy. If you liked FM08 you will get to like FM09, I'm sure of it.

I take a while to warm to every new release, and this is no different. Just got the graphics running well at last, so am planning a Saturday with me, my FM, a pot of tea, plenty of biscuits, and maybe a notepad.

[oTRUTHo]

better check your tactics young man

[Mike7077]

Players have always taken time to blend. It's just that now you have an assistant manager who bothers to explain it to you. And a proactive assistant manager is something lots of people have been calling for.

[Neji]

So you don't like it because you're losing? Players gelling has been in the game for several iterations now.

[McBride]

every year it changes. too much for some and not nearly enough for others. i find that after about a month of playing the new game i've all but forgotten about the old game. you get used to the new stuff and you can't imagine the game without it.

[kennhyl]

i gotta disagree with byrich's original post.....i started as man city and have played 11 games so far and won 11 games even with all my players trying to settle in.

i blame the manager

[Oktober]

As usual, I'm loving everything (or the potential for everything) around the game, except for the matches themselves. I'm pretty disappointed with the match engine and the tactics across the board so far, quite a lot more than I have been for other games in the series.

After this long with the exact same model, really the whole tactical concept needs a COMPLETE overhaul. In previous games its been a challenge to translate what you want to get across in a series of tickboxes and sliders - rather akin to attempting to explain it in written Chinese or Arabic. It takes quite a while before you really start to see the connections and realise what they do.

So far with 9.0.0... I just dont see almost any connection with what my instructions are saying and whats happening on the pitch. The games are pretty dull and generally, the end results are about right, but I've felt like I had no control over how I got there. Previously telling players to play short, man mark, cross from the byline resulted in a 2D representation of them doing exactly that, and while difficult to master could eventually be just about worked out (even if it required large amounts of trial and error). This time around I can tell them to do all that, and still win 1-0 against Wigan after a clearance from Carragher that Torres got on the end of. It seems to be a pretty common issue with lack of goals from open play, and the lack of progress that seems to be being made on it is seeming to indicate that its just down to a poor match engine

I'm really concerned that the FM series has peaked - personally I loved new stadiums, feeder clubs and the FaceGen, whereas this time around the focus is all on whats happening on the newly shiny 3D pitch - which is turning into many peoples least favorite part. Its disappointing to think that Football Manager is great - apart from the football part.

[Serpico]

At last the pre-loaded tactics seem to work, no more insane tweaking needed. Just pick your formation, make sure the lads are in the right state of mind with a good team talk and use opposition instructions as best as possible.

Been getting some decent results with un-tweaked tactics which were just impossible with the pre-loaded ones in FM08.

Thank god.

I couldn't disagree more. I found the default tactics awful, and my assman didn't like them either.

[Richardjack]

i get the problem , when your writing in the txt box and it double enters the letters, it takes forever to write names and search , like if you wrote bent it would go bbeenntt , so annoying . And when on the clubs information screen where it shows you the kits the whole game just slows down for me until u get off the screen

[Kriss]

I couldn't disagree more. I found the default tactics awful, and my assman didn't like them either.

"Serpico On Football Tactics" now I wonder if I'll find that in the library:confused:

Hmmpphhh, they laughed at me:o

[Serpico]

"Serpico On Football Tactics" now I wonder if I'll find that in the library:confused:

Hmmpphhh, they laughed at me:o

Nowhere did I claim to be any good at them. However I am so bad I can recognise tactical ineptitude whenever I come across it nowadays.

[canvey!!]

I don't like the default tactics either - the sliders aren't at default so there isn't a clean slate to work with - plus there are arrows everywhere - I thought arrows were taken out?

[malleria]

I don't like the default tactics either - the sliders aren't at default so there isn't a clean slate to work with - plus there are arrows everywhere - I thought arrows were taken out?

Exactly what i thought, i thought they were completely taken off, i prefer the old tactics board i mean no cutting in(unless like they said that is down to ability when in space) no holding midfielder actually going into the middle both ae just going forward in the middle so they are equally as attacking as the wingers.

Secondly, what does the forward run slide bar mean to stikers, does it stop/make them make runs, is this why they stand still when a midfielder is running forward, why doesn't it set it as often because that's all they do in real life

[Kriss]

Exactly what i thought, i thought they were completely taken off, i prefer the old tactics board i mean no cutting in(unless like they said that is down to ability when in space) no holding midfielder actually going into the middle both ae just going forward in the middle so they are equally as attacking as the wingers.

Secondly, what does the forward run slide bar mean to stikers, does it stop/make them make runs, is this why they stand still when a midfielder is running forward, why doesn't it set it as often because that's all they do in real life

The arrows you see now just indicate the forward run instruction in place.

So forward arrow = often

No arrow = sometimes

Back arrow = rarely.

[Kriss]

I don't like the default tactics either - the sliders aren't at default so there isn't a clean slate to work with - plus there are arrows everywhere - I thought arrows were taken out?

The new default tactics were created by "experts" to give non tactical people some better options, they will of course still need the right players to get the best from them.

Agree there should be a completely neutral one for people to build from, surprising ommision tbh.

[sotongomad76]

I'm really concerned that the FM series has peaked - personally I loved new stadiums, feeder clubs and the FaceGen, whereas this time around the focus is all on whats happening on the newly shiny 3D pitch - which is turning into many peoples least favorite part. Its disappointing to think that Football Manager is great - apart from the football part.

I feel much the same way.

I always- somewhat geekily- hoped that FM would evolve into something like Baseball Mogul, where you customise leagues to the nth degree, start in any year from 1900, and in general make every minute tactical change possible, as well as the sort of things that add to long term games like competitions changing format in the future.

Instead we got a 3D match engine that I feel adds nothing (and if anything detracts from) to the infomation given by a 2D view.

In a way I almost feel like SI have sold out to commercial pressure in adding this.