Match Engine Update 13.1.3 - quick overview. ME feedback here please.

[stevemc]

I've literally battered this game all weekend, and the only real problems I've come across repeatedly are;

• Number of own goals seems slightly too high

• Not seen one free kick scored for either team all season

• Alot of goals scored from tight angles (doesn't bother me, its just something I've noticed)

Of the repeated problems in here, injuries have not been a problem, neither have low number of shots.

Overall, the M.E is good in my opinion.

[Al_Pacino]

I'm top of the league by 10 points, 29 matches played (counting league only). There is a lot of silliness regarding daft defending and hilarious goals being scored, but it's happening for AND against me so it's evening itself out.

I do feel that this FM is much better all-round that FM12, and I'm excited to see what happens with that "big" post-transfer window update I've read a lot about. There is huge potential, especially if these are addressed:

Defenders seem to turn to potatoes in the build-up to goals.

I've had ONE goal scored from outside the box (my player), and NONE against me - even then it was "edge of the area" so only just*

Almost every goal I concede (and score to be honest), is from a horrible defensive error, stupid GK mistake, through ball or cross (it works for and against me so it's not ruining my game).

Entire team sometimes "very nervous" when leading by scores like 4-0 at half time.

Full backs are total idiots.

Full backs like throwing the ball straight to opposition players for no apparent reason.

GK won't distribute the ball as he is instructed.

Entire defence stands still sometimes and simply allows opposition players to score, putting no pressure on or tackles in, despite tactical instructions to the contrary.

*I've had my GK deflect free kicks into the net that were struck from almost the half way line and were going well wide. I don't really class nonsense like this as "long shots"...

Having said all that, I'm still really enjoying it. My team are playing some fantastic football and we're flying high on all fronts.

The above issues just make matches "look" unrealistic when you watch them, which is a shame.

[ajw10]

7 own goals in my last 6 games. 5 for, 2 against. There's definitely an issue with them.

Also, the player who assists the own goal doesn't get an assist for it. Why?

[MacZidane]

I've literally battered this game all weekend, and the only real problems I've come across repeatedly are;

• Number of own goals seems slightly too high

• Not seen one free kick scored for either team all season

• Alot of goals scored from tight angles (doesn't bother me, its just something I've noticed)

Of the repeated problems in here, injuries have not been a problem, neither have low number of shots.

Overall, the M.E is good in my opinion.

Yeah, I agree with that, although I can't say I've noticed too many OGs. There's definitely been less free kick/shots outside the box type goals though. Had FM12 on earlier, and there was a good few of each. Lots of free kicks scored pre-update, hardly any since.

I've also noticed a reduction in the variation of goals since the patch, most of the goals are pretty similar. But that may just be the way my games pan out.

[Guest]

Ive never had many injurys either, infact I had more pre patch. What I am seeing is prolific AI strikers. They litterally score every shot. I'm in the blue square south.. Its like Van Persie would struggle to out score these 8 for finishing 4 for composure strikers they got in this league..

And Now cos SIgames decided it would be good to tone down the shots I need pretty much every shot to go in to win too.

[Kriss]

And Now cos SIgames decided it would be good to tone down the shots I need pretty much every shot to go in to win too.

Rather economical with the truth there they didn't decide it would be a good idea, they decided not to risk changing it so they could get the last update out.

It will be adjusted.

[Guest]

Rather economical with the truth there they didn't decide it would be a good idea, they decided not to risk changing it so they could get the last update out.

It will be adjusted.

Nope. they decided it works well with the ME..

- You will probably see less shots in this update, and if anything its a bit low vs RL but we decided this was ok in the context of how this ME version plays

Which I'm assuming means.. cos of the high accuracy rate of goals per shot, that less shots works well in creating more realistic scorelines..

I didnt read anything about it being fixed, unless I missed it. They decided 'it was OK'.. which is what I said.

[themadsheep2001]

Nope. they decided it works well with the ME..

Which I'm assuming means.. cos of the high accuracy rate of goals per shot, that less shots works well in creating more realistic scorelines..

I didnt read anything about it being fixed, unless I missed it. They 'decided it was OK'..

- You will probably see less shots in this update, and if anything its a bit low vs RL but we decided this was ok in the context of how this ME version plays

There not enough information there for you to assume anything. Why not just take it fro what it is, or even better ask if they will look into it?

Paul, I think the loose passing might be down to the players often not considering the defender when making the pass/coupled with the issue of players not anticipating well enough, will upload some examples later

[Guest]

- You will probably see less shots in this update, and if anything its a bit low vs RL but we decided this was ok in the context of how this ME version plays

There not enough information there for you to assume anything.

Well give me one other reasonably explanation why less shots would work well.. Thats is the only one.

And I spoke to soon about injurys.. just got 4 in my last game

Cursed it

[wwfan]

Well give me one other reasonably explanation why less shots would work well.. Thats is the only one.

And I spoke to soon about injurys.. just got 4 in my last game

Cursed it

90% of the missing shots are the wild and unrealistic long or extreme angle shots, which didn't go in anyway. The conversion rate for good chances has remained completely stable.

[Kriss]

Nope. they decided it works well with the ME..

Which I'm assuming means.. cos of the high accuracy rate of goals per shot, that less shots works well in creating more realistic scorelines..

I didnt read anything about it being fixed, unless I missed it. They decided 'it was OK'.. which is what I said.

You missed it, they decided it was okay to go with this for now.

[golgepapaz]

No christian baroni this the wrong goal you are defending. Oh, I give up. This is like watching someone club baby seals.

[video=youtube_share;uOVGaasNVfQ]

This explains the low shot ratio though...

[Federico]

How can i fix my tactic so that Mr. Chiellini cleareances the box or Mr. Buffon dives, catch, and blows it up?

[video=youtube;TSXx7GXR0wM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSXx7GXR0wM

[wwfan]

No christian baroni this the wrong goal you are defending. Oh, I give up. This is like watching someone club baby seals.

[video=youtube_share;uOVGaasNVfQ]

This explains the low shot ratio though...

Please upload the pkm for this in the bugs forum, if you haven't already. The refusal to shoot in good positions is a must fix bug. This would be a great example.

[wwfan]

How can i fix my tactic so that Mr. Chiellini cleareances the box or Mr. Buffon dives, catch, and blows it up?

[video=youtube;TSXx7GXR0wM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSXx7GXR0wM

Did Chiellini get a mistake and low match score for this? If not, then it is a bug. If so, then it is just bad decision making. Still worth uploading as a possible bug, but not clearcut.

[golgepapaz]

Please upload the pkm for this in the bugs forum, if you haven't already. The refusal to shoot in good positions is a must fix bug. This would be a great example.

I do have the pkm, but don't know how to do that upload thingy. I'll investigate some now..

[wwfan]

I do have the pkm, but don't know how to do that upload thingy. I'll investigate some now..

Cheers. That's the most blatant example I've yet seen. Drives me nuts as well. It's got better since the last patch, but needs eradicating.

[Althaz]

90% of the missing shots are the wild and unrealistic long or extreme angle shots, which didn't go in anyway. The conversion rate for good chances has remained completely stable.

Conversion rate might be similar, but I've had several instances of quality players getting passed through or received the ball from a cross that have been closer to the goal than the keeper but haven't actually shot the ball. Overall I'm still very happy with the ME at the moment though. Even before the patch it was possible to play beautiful football, now it's also possible to score lots of goals doing so (and sure, sometimes concede a bunch by overcomitting, but that's football).

[Federico]

Did Chiellini get a mistake and low match score for this? If not, then it is a bug. If so, then it is just bad decision making. Still worth uploading as a possible bug, but not clearcut.

But in my opinion this issue is not about a low match score or rating, but how a player having the ball through his legs, just decide to do nothing. Same for the goalkeeper who could collect the ball pretty easilly.

I read with very much interest all your posts, and i tried to reproduce what you suggested to do with the game because i really think you know the game inside-out and it's worth giving it a try. But for how much I try to apply on the pitch all my (poor) football knowledge, assuming to do what i would do for real, players dont do it. Yeah it's a game, i know

The most of goal i concede it's because of defenders/goalies mistakes, like poor clearence, ignoring opp's strikers movements, goalie's sillyness and so on.. I dominate almost all the matches, i dont really feel like saying "it's my tactic not working" because it actually works, but when i hit post and bars, AI scores. And scores stupid buggy goals.

I think the latest patch was a good step forward compared to the early game, but needs urgently some fixes on regarding of DCs especially and their awareness of the ball and opponents nearby.

[golgepapaz]

Cheers. That's the most blatant example I've yet seen. Drives me nuts as well. It's got better since the last patch, but needs eradicating.

Well I've connected to the ftp server, but cannot upload the pkm. it says 550 permission denied. I am using the command line ftp that comes with windows.

I am trying it to upload to /fm/game-pkm. Does ftp-public account really has write access?. Also I should post the Match engine subforum about it amirite?

[wwfan]

I agree that defenders do let players past them too easily at times and it looks weird. However, for much of the match they do mop up TBs / crosses quite comfortably, or shot counts and scorelines would be much higher.

I think your example is an interesting one. It looks like a player mistake rather than bug to me, but is worth posting just because of that. Only PaulC will be able to determine exactly what happened.

[wwfan]

Well I've connected to the ftp server, but cannot upload the pkm. it says 550 permission denied. I am using the command line ftp that comes with windows.

I am trying it to upload to /fm/game-pkm. Does ftp-public account really has write access?. Also I should post the Match engine subforum about it amirite?

You have mail.

[jujigatame]

This ME is a huge improvement over 13.1.2 but there are still a few issues with defending that need to be sorted:

1) Defenders backpedaling in response to a through ball. This causes several iffy looking goals and never fails to look completely ridiculous.

2) Defenders looking unsure of what to do with the ball and getting pickpocketed near their own goal. If they don't see a passing option they should at least try clearing the ball out of bounds.

3) Defenders tackling the ball into their own net. I see this far too often, maybe once every few games a defender on one team or the other does this. Sometimes it happens when a keeper has a clear path to the ball too, which is doubly awful looking.

Other than that, I think the ME is great.

[wwfan]

This ME is a huge improvement over 13.1.2 but there are still a few issues with defending that need to be sorted:

1) Defenders backpedaling in response to a through ball. This causes several iffy looking goals and never fails to look completely ridiculous.

2) Defenders looking unsure of what to do with the ball and getting pickpocketed near their own goal. If they don't see a passing option they should at least try clearing the ball out of bounds.

3) Defenders tackling the ball into their own net. I see this far too often, maybe once every few games a defender on one team or the other does this. Sometimes it happens when a keeper has a clear path to the ball too, which is doubly awful looking.

Other than that, I think the ME is great.

2) I think that has something to do with defenders trying tight turns when there's no need to. You need to turn tightly when shooting at goal, as you only have a limited space to aim at. You don;t when you can clear/pass it in many directions. I suggest that, if you can find a few examples of tight turns causing lost possession, you upload them to the bugs forum explaining the issue.

[jujigatame]

2) I think that has something to do with defenders trying tight turns when there's no need to. You need to turn tightly when shooting at goal, as you only have a limited space to aim at. You don;t when you can clear/pass it in many directions. I suggest that, if you can find a few examples of tight turns causing lost possession, you upload them to the bugs forum explaining the issue.

No I don't think that's it. I've seen several instances of a player (not just defenders) sort of "dancing" around the ball in place, like they can't figure out what to do with it. After 5 seconds or so of this an opposing player will generally close in and take the ball away. It's just extra frustrating when it's a defender because this often leads to an easy goal.

Honestly #1 and #3 on my list are more serious and frequent problems. Through balls are still too effective and it's because defenders often try to track runners by backpedaling rather than actually turning around and running with them.

[Svenc]

I took this to the non-ME thread first, as that is where the discussion was taking place prior to when the feedback thread was split up. However, this likely belongs someplace else, so I'll take it here.

Ok, after looking at a number of games now, it looks like that there is absolutely no positioning difference between Man Marking and Zonal Marking. Maybe there is something going on 'under the hood' but they look exactly the same in the ME...

There has never been traditional man marking in FM - that is, except if you manually pick a player to mark. Man as well as zonal marking are both zonal.

These are shots from FM 2012.

Tight man marking: http://www.pic-upload.de/view-16016271/marking2.png.html

Lose zonal: http://www.pic-upload.de/view-16022121/marking3.png.html

Players to mark picked manually: http://www.pic-upload.de/view-16013240/marking.png.html

If "man marking" was in fact traditional man marking there would be all kinds of problems. As you can see, players are getting dragged out of shape when the opposition has the ball ASAP, they don't care about the position of the ball or their team mates, they mark their players no matter what. In FM's engine this is implemented so rigidly that players follow your marking orders no matter what, which means you have to be really careful when you go for actual man marking by manually picking a player to mark: http://youtube.googleapis.com/v/NIQbTzWNG-A

Can somebody share some light into this? I was under the impression that if you pick "man marking" rather than "zonal" and that when an opposing player enters a defender's zone, said player would be picked up and marked by the defender until the attacking move was over. However, I frequently see players drifting out of the zone and the "man markers" then letting them go, dropping back to their defending positions. Seeing how the marking concepts were always a bit different to what they are in real-life (in parts), maybe marking was all changed a little for FM 2013 just as well?

[Fancy Gaffot]

Half of my shortlist is missing World Cup 2014 because of injuries.

[AllInAll]

the ME is great, i'm losin every 2nd game though whahaha

though it is a bit swobbly(sp?) haha at times ...

[stevemc]

Yeah, I agree with that, although I can't say I've noticed too many OGs. There's definitely been less free kick/shots outside the box type goals though. Had FM12 on earlier, and there was a good few of each. Lots of free kicks scored pre-update, hardly any since.

I've also noticed a reduction in the variation of goals since the patch, most of the goals are pretty similar. But that may just be the way my games pan out.

Alot of the OG's are silly though, like my player having a shot, that's on target, but it will take a slight deflection on the way in, but it goes down as an OG.

[BiggusD]

2) I think that has something to do with defenders trying tight turns when there's no need to. You need to turn tightly when shooting at goal, as you only have a limited space to aim at. You don;t when you can clear/pass it in many directions. I suggest that, if you can find a few examples of tight turns causing lost possession, you upload them to the bugs forum explaining the issue.

I think that the defenders in possession have too low Composure in general. Their decision-making when it comes to passing options is very risk-averse on top of that. They "perceive" a teammate to be marked/closed down when they are not, and then they boot it forward if they are "composed", or get caught out if they aren't. I stopped using "Defender Collect" for this reason. It was absolutely pointless since if the keeper actually did hit it to one of the defenders, said defender would pass it back or punt it upfield and I would lose possession with the defense out of position.

Maybe the pressing is a bit overdone this time around - I often see three opposition players charging my keeper even when they defend deep. In modern football it is common to set a certain "pressing line", usually somewhere around the halfway line, beyond which the team does not press. Then, when the opposition crosses that line with the ball, they start pressing as a team. Several players charging the keeper would only happen towards the end of the match if one down and chasing a goal.

[Graham206]

3, the way full backs shadow players all the way down the line, then allow them to cross anyway,

That's my biggest complaint with the ME at present: a full back will track a player running down the wing until they're near the corner flag then inexplicably stop defending and let the player cross unchallenged. It's the current equivalent of the stand out ME fault of the initial release, shooting from ridiculously acute angles, which thankfully has been toned down now.

[Ackter]

For anyone interested, here's my last 6 results:

[pigfacemonkeyman]

You really don't understand do you? RANDOM FACTOR.

Also calling people fan boys is infractable, so cut that out.

You're kidding!! Why is that? Also, maybe you could tell me why, when someone keeps posting pretty much the same thing over and over in response to issues posted by different people, it is not considered to be trolling (or whatever the most recent term is)? It can't be because they are defending SI, surely!

[Ackter]

It's simple. People who use the term "fanboy" do so as an attempt at disparaging dismissal. It's always, always, meant as a form of abuse.

We've also handed out a few infractions recently for people trolling others trying to post their issues.

If you have issues or questions about the moderation, use the Contact Us link at the bottom of the forum.

[CityAndColour]

This ME is a huge improvement over 13.1.2 but there are still a few issues with defending that need to be sorted:

1) Defenders backpedaling in response to a through ball. This causes several iffy looking goals and never fails to look completely ridiculous.

2) Defenders looking unsure of what to do with the ball and getting pickpocketed near their own goal. If they don't see a passing option they should at least try clearing the ball out of bounds.

Other than that, I think the ME is great.

I would argue these two have been around for quite a few versions of the game now. Defenders getting pick-pocketed by strikers (particularly the last defender or a defender chasing a ball towards his own goal) was very common on FM12 from my experience.

I would say 90% of the goals I have conceded since installing the updates are the AI hitting a ball centrally, and my centre-halves either doing the back pedal or slowing right down as they get near the ball, allowing strikers to run through. It's even more frustrating as SI have nailed closing down, so often the only option they have is to hit a hopeful ball forward, which defenders SHOULD cut out but often don't.

Point two is made even more annoying by the fact you can see it coming and can't do anything about it. Once your player starts doing the "dance" on the ball, especially full-backs, you're just praying the guy who dispossesses him wastes the chance.

[szasinka]

I am happy with the new ME. Started a new save after the update with Tottenham. First season was ok, finished in the second place behind City (We lost the "final" in the 37th round against them to 0-2, we did not have luck, one of my defender played terrible but this happen IRL as well). In the second season we destroy the league. After 30 round we are sitting on top of the league with one lost and with two draw, scored 95 and concede only 25. I use my tactic developed pre patch and it is work very well this version as well (better than I expected, obviously I have some superstar but I think it is way better performance what I can expect from the team). The shoots amount decreased, but my side score lot more goals compared to previous version. I think we score above the realistic amount but I am not complain Cavani has already scored 40 league goal on 28 appearance. I do not see boring games, I find watching the matches enjoyable.

The amount of the own goals increased but not over the realistic level imo. The injures amount also slightly increased but it was below the realistic level. Pre patch I only have one injury per month roughly which was quite low. Now it seem more realistic and still easily manageable (My main squad rooster contains only 22 player and only forced to bring up youth player only once during two season)

[Kriss]

You're kidding!! Why is that? Also, maybe you could tell me why, when someone keeps posting pretty much the same thing over and over in response to issues posted by different people, it is not considered to be trolling (or whatever the most recent term is)? It can't be because they are defending SI, surely!

That particular person was infracted yesterday and is on a final warning (I'm in little doubt we mean the same person) it pays to check before you accuse us of not being even handed.

Now how about you buy the bloody game so you can do your thing first hand instead of having to interpret other people's experiences

[kanchigo]

GKs in 12.1.3 seem to be have alot of mistakes. in alot of non - dangerous situation, they are unable to catch the ball properly.

[Ackter]

If you have any examples, they'd be welcome in the bugs forum.

[pigfacemonkeyman]

That's my biggest complaint with the ME at present: a full back will track a player running down the wing until they're near the corner flag then inexplicably stop defending and let the player cross unchallenged. It's the current equivalent of the stand out ME fault of the initial release, shooting from ridiculously acute angles, which thankfully has been toned down now.

I'm still playing FM10 and I sometimes see this when I have set FB Opposition Instructions to "show onto weaker foot", could it still be that?

[PaulC]

No christian baroni this the wrong goal you are defending. Oh, I give up. This is like watching someone club baby seals.

[video=youtube_share;uOVGaasNVfQ]

This explains the low shot ratio though...

Finally, the clear example I needed to make sure this is fixed for the next update. Thank you, and apologies that it happened as it was indeed truly rubbish.

[pigfacemonkeyman]

That particular person was infracted yesterday and is on a final warning (I'm in little doubt we mean the same person) it pays to check before you accuse us of not being even handed.

Now how about you buy the bloody game so you can do your thing first hand instead of having to interpret other people's experiences

I would love to play FM13 and the inclusion of collision detection/avoidance persuaded me to find a workaround to my third party issue. I was even going to put up with the new "Training" system, but people I know and trust have told me of certain issues that are putting me off buying, many of which are mentioned in the feedback threads. I wouldn't buy till after final update anyway, (unless major-bug free) but I like to keep up with developments in case it turns around before then.

[Ackter]

You could always try the demo?

[kanchigo]

If you have any examples, they'd be welcome in the bugs forum.

I've tried to upload pkm but unsuccessful.

[pigfacemonkeyman]

You could always try the demo?

As my workaround means buying a new computer I'd rather wait.

[tajj 7]

Some more feedback. I have now played pretty much a whole season with the update.

Before I start please note at no point is this a complaint, just some observations after watching most games in extended. I have jsut won the league comfortably with my formation trying to emulate Barcelona's set up.

- Shot count is too low, but you already acknowledge this. I had several games against oponents where they literally had ZERO shots against me.

- Strikers seem to miss easy chances but score the harder ones. Watched several 'Ronny Rosenthal' type misses.

- Wide play is still a bit off, whilst full backs will track the wide player they don't seem to intervene much. Players with high dribbling seem to get to the byline very easily but then don't cross and instead try to shoot from an obscure angle or round the keeper. I have actually scored quite a few goals this way.

- Overall high pace/dribbling players seem very dominant, they can breeze past 4 or 5 players with ease.

- All my red cards this year have resulted from second yellows given for challenging for high balls. A lot of these cards, the commentary actually describes the awarding of the foul as 'harsh' but my player still gets a yellow. Now apart from elbows (which I can't see in the ME and the commentary doesn't mention) I'm pretty sure IRL players don't get yellow cards when challenging for aerial balls.

- Own goals, there are a lot of them, had at least half a dozen games in the season that involved at least two. One had four OG's (3 going my way one against) I would estimate that I have benefitted from at least a dozen OGs this season.

- I am not noticing as many injuries as others are describing but I seem to get quite a few in game knocks.

- Tackles, again I think are bit high. Tackles, particularly sliding ones happen all over the pitch and are very successful, even from behind. I reckon this needs toning down a bit.

General play actually looks a lot better, my players will retain possesion but not at the expense of actually doing something with it, my shape actually looks how I have set it up and at times my team plays some astonishing football, with little back heels in the box, great one twos, one touch passing and proper cut backs from the line. My attacking players also now actually defend instead of just letting the opposition double up on my full back and my attacking full back sometimes dominated games like Baines is doing IRL.

Remove some of the bugged elements (like the long punts that the keeper just lets in, strikers turning away from goal when once v one etc.) and tweak some elements a bit (like tackles down, dribbling a bit less successful, through balls a bit less succesful) and I think the ME is nearly there.

[MrPompey]

One of the biggest problems I see is keepers coming out toward the striker and not looking to smother the ball and instead appear to just stand up and run past player and unfortunately also the ball

[oguzcan11]

Overload means " no highlights until the end of the game"

[Ackter]

Overload means "do more of the thing that's been completely ineffective for the rest of the match".

I'll never understand why people think overload = win. It's the worst tactic you could use against a strong defence.

[ScottGooner]

I thought 'overload' was for the last minutes when you were a goal down.