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[Lower Leagues Rule]

Lower League Finances

Now I know there has been around this, and I like that it seems a bit harsher this edition (2 teams in the Big Euro thread have already gone into Admin), but there seems to be an issue with how the clubs calculate the wage budget. I am dead on with my current wage budget in Portugal as Juventde Evora, but our wages equate to about 30k per month, while our turnover is only 15k per month, hence even before we have other expenditure we are losing 15k, before anyone mentions it in lower league Portugal there is no prize money or TV money that comes in a bulk to help balance this loss out. In the first season they gave me a wage budget of €5k for a top half finish, in the second season same finish expected, but not only €4k wage budget, now if a 4k budget is giving 30k per month and a 15k loss just on wages (About 30k per month total), then surely they should actually be giving a wage budget closer to €2k.

I am not complaining about the clubs cutting the wage budget, or going into Admin when they clearly are going broke. I don't know if anyone else can point something out that I am missing, but these wage budgets for Semi-Pro clubs seem to be too high given the projected earnings, or is this the way it actually is in Portugal/Italy/Spain etc?

I have learnt my lesson and am hoping at the end of the season to still have my job and be able to build a team with cheaper players halving my own wage budget, but possibly something to look at? Thoughts?

[Blueflash]

So after many years of lurking a game version has finally pissed me off enough to make an account and post here. First off, not trying to sound like an entitled douche but I've been playing FM for as long as i can remember, even though i bought FM 12 late i have over 300 hours of it logged on steam, so i like to think i know what I'm doing yeah? Started an arsenal save(usually start with a league 1 side, but hey its beta, might as well manage my favourite club) decent team, little improvements needed here and there, bought Jesus Navas, Takagi and Bender, should be good enough right? WRONG! lost against arsenal reserves in pre-season, put that down to team gelling, lost to Lille, same thing. Losing to Guanghzhou, now that's what started to **** me off, I play a 4-1-4-1 formation, pretty standard right? Short passing, creative freedom high enough, you know? The team doesn't listen to me, the goalkeeper even after reducing his creative freedom and passing to its minimum, thumps it forward, like my short arsenal players have a snowball's chance in hell of getting the ball.

Lost three games on the trot in the league, tweaked formation some more, won against dinamo in the champo 3-0, things getting better right? WRONG! Drew to Norwich and Qpr. Seething with rage i take on west ham, 20 shots on goal, 4 on target. "Hey Blueflash, turn down the long shooting!" is what you're gonna say right? It's never been above rarely for all but one of my players. 0-0 80th minute, Guy Demel picks up the ball, runs past Vermaelen on the left and somehow scores from 40 yards from a crosshot(?), I take that on the chin and keep playing, 2 minutes later, Matt Jarvis picks up the ball and curls it in from 35 yards, one shot, one on target, i'm down 2-0 to west ham, at this point, i turn off the game, uninstall FM 13 from my steam apps and wait for the January patch once again. Rant done, I'm going to bed.

[Noel Gallagher]

Because of the licencing issues.

Really???

I thought MoM was a generic term used across most sports? I didn't think it was something that was licensed?

[lufcwhite]

So after many years of lurking a game version has finally pissed me off enough to make an account and post here. First off, not trying to sound like an entitled douche but I've been playing FM for as long as i can remember, even though i bought FM 12 late i have over 300 hours of it logged on steam, so i like to think i know what I'm doing yeah? Started an arsenal save(usually start with a league 1 side, but hey its beta, might as well manage my favourite club) decent team, little improvements needed here and there, bought Jesus Navas, Takagi and Bender, should be good enough right? WRONG! lost against arsenal reserves in pre-season, put that down to team gelling, lost to Lille, same thing. Losing to Guanghzhou, now that's what started to **** me off, I play a 4-1-4-1 formation, pretty standard right? Short passing, creative freedom high enough, you know? The team doesn't listen to me, the goalkeeper even after reducing his creative freedom and passing to its minimum, thumps it forward, like my short arsenal players have a snowball's chance in hell of getting the ball.

Lost three games on the trot in the league, tweaked formation some more, won against dinamo in the champo 3-0, things getting better right? WRONG! Drew to Norwich and Qpr. Seething with rage i take on west ham, 20 shots on goal, 4 on target. "Hey Blueflash, turn down the long shooting!" is what you're gonna say right? It's never been above rarely for all but one of my players. 0-0 80th minute, Guy Demel picks up the ball, runs past Vermaelen on the left and somehow scores from 40 yards from a crosshot(?), I take that on the chin and keep playing, 2 minutes later, Matt Jarvis picks up the ball and curls it in from 35 yards, one shot, one on target, i'm down 2-0 to west ham, at this point, i turn off the game, uninstall FM 13 from my steam apps and wait for the January patch once again. Rant done, I'm going to bed.

all in all id say its like real life lol

4-1 to reading!!!

[wwfan]

In fact i'm going to say this slowly just so it hopefully sinks into your head..... VASTLY SUPERIOR TEAM, 10 games against VASTLY INFERIOR opposition, 10 different player/tactics setups resulting in eight losses for the SUPERIOR team = REALLY BROKEN GAME ENGINE. It takes out the factor of tactical setup being wrong................

That would very much depend on the logic of your tactic. If the logic is far removed from the logic that drives the ME and AI tactics, then your play could be absolutely horrible. In fact, not just could be, but should be.

Nothing you've yet written suggests that the fault lies anywhere except in yourself. Rather than ranting on about it, perhaps you could explain your tactical logic and get some help.

[wwfan]

Short passing, creative freedom high enough, you know? The team doesn't listen to me, the goalkeeper even after reducing his creative freedom and passing to its minimum, thumps it forward, like my short arsenal players have a snowball's chance in hell of getting the ball.

"Hey Blueflash, turn down the long shooting!" is what you're gonna say right? It's never been above rarely for all but one of my players. 0-0 80th minute, Guy Demel picks up the ball, runs past Vermaelen on the left and somehow scores from 40 yards from a crosshot(?), I take that on the chin and keep playing, 2 minutes later, Matt Jarvis picks up the ball and curls it in from 35 yards, one shot, one on target, i'm down 2-0 to west ham, at this point, i turn off the game, uninstall FM 13 from my steam apps and wait for the January patch once again. Rant done, I'm going to bed.

That actually suggests to me that you don't really know what you are doing. Reducing CF and long shots to a minimum is normally a recipe for disaster. If you are tending to concede from long shots or on the break while having lots of shots yourself, I'd suggest your tactic is one dimensional in attack with lots of spaces in front of and around your defence.

[Vladel]

That would very much depend on the logic of your tactic. If the logic is far removed from the logic that drives the ME and AI tactics, then your play could be absolutely horrible. In fact, not just could be, but should be.

Nothing you've yet written suggests that the fault lies anywhere except in yourself. Rather than ranting on about it, perhaps you could explain your tactical logic and get some help.

If you had actually bothered to read my post, you would see that i said i used TEN different tactic and player combinations! what is so hard to understand what i am saying? I keep answering people like you who keep going on about single strategies when i have pointed out that they do not matter as i have tried ten in this very instance and contrary to your post have posted examples prior to this post but you are not the first misguided soul to accuse me of not doing so. You merely pick up the last post and get up on your high horse and beat the typical drum of YOUR TACTICS ARE WRONG! when like i say i tried TEN varying degrees of them. Now i know you are going to come back after not reading or understanding what i have said and will once again go on about my single tactical worth etc....

I do not doubt that you know tactics very well as your posting suggests. My point is that tactics if reasonably concieved even to the point of using the default settings should not result in the repeated defeat of superior teams by inferior teams period.

On another note and not in reply to the last person to mistake my meaning utterly, weirdly after drinking some wine and for laughs i loaded up FM13 at a point i was stuck and very frustrated, decided to put a cover defender and a stopper into two of my formations (i have never downloaded or used anyone else's formations in FM games) and won two games in a row with no swearing which is a new thing thus far.

Then i got my 5th chairman cash injection in 1 and 1/3 seasons this time for 11.25 million that b******, what's the point in my trying to be thrifty when he keeps throwing in money?

[steamisannoying]

]Far far far!!! too hard to sell players (100k for a reserve player total outgoings)

In 4 transfer windows offering practically every single player out and adding to unwanted list, nothing happens!!! it has to be by far the worse version for offloading players adding to that most have an average rating of over 7.00 this needs to be sorted pronto, I wish I never pre-ordered now

[Blueflash]

Reduced the goalkeeper's CF to a minimum. 2nd point is also off, most of the goals i've conceded are from crosses, despite having mertesacker and Vermaelen in cd and Sirchesney being above average in Aerial ability. Bender and Arteta take care of the defensive side of my midfield with An Anchor and Deep-lying playmaker(s) role respectively. Cazorla's on the left with an advanced plymaker (A) duty and Jesus Navas is on the right with a Winger(A) duty. Strikers are Podolski or walcott with a poacher role or Giroud with A Targetman(a) role. I've always played with a fluid tactic, with a Quick tempo(2 or so notches into quick) and i usually start with a Standard strategy, usually shifting into control if i get the first goal.

[k700i]

Some strange crashes going round. First crash happened when I was setting performances. The second one in the middle of the match.

And I think that strikers have some odd movement in the box. When going 1 on 1 they run too far to corner line and then shoot from a very narrow angle.

[frenchst]

Maybe (almost certainly) I am a dreadful manager, but I feel that the instructions I give either to the team as a whole or individuals have very little impact on what happens on the pitch. I've yet to feel in control of my team during a match, or comfortable in a match when winning or even drawing. Opposition teams always seem to have the best of the possession and always look likely to score. I find my team slow to move into space or to close opponents down, when my own team is hassled and tackled a lot quicker when I am in possession. My team never looks like controlling a game or building up momentum and consistency.

I love everything about this game except how good my team is! I appreciate we are only in Beta stage and I fully expect the final product to be a completely different beast but I am getting a tad frustrated with my Liverpool team - whom I have luckily had £48m to spend on during my first summer - running around like they belong in the SPL (and I say that as a Scot!)

Like I said, I'm probably just a bad manager!

[TOADman]

<snip>

at this point, i turn off the game, uninstall FM 13 from my steam apps and wait for the January patch once again. Rant done, I'm going to bed.

“I’ll tell ya the truth, Dad. I wasn’t good at it right away so I quit. I hope you’re not mad.” – Bart Simpson

“Son, come here, heh heh heh. Of course I’m not mad. If something’s hard to do then it’s not worth doing. You just stick that guitar in the closet next to your short wave radio, your karate outfit and your unicycle, and we’ll go inside and watch TV.” – Homer Simpson

Sorry, couldn't resist

[wwfan]

If you had actually bothered to read my post, you would see that i said i used TEN different tactic and player combinations! what is so hard to understand what i am saying? I keep answering people like you who keep going on about single strategies when i have pointed out that they do not matter as i have tried ten in this very instance and contrary to your post have posted examples prior to this post but you are not the first misguided soul to accuse me of not doing so. You merely pick up the last post and get up on your high horse and beat the typical drum of YOUR TACTICS ARE WRONG! when like i say i tried TEN varying degrees of them. Now i know you are going to come back after not reading or understanding what i have said and will once again go on about my single tactical worth etc....

I do not doubt that you know tactics very well as your posting suggests. My point is that tactics if reasonably concieved even to the point of using the default settings should not result in the repeated defeat of superior teams by inferior teams period.

Yes, they should. If football was just about the best 11 players, then managers would not be paid many millions to manage them.

Trying 10 different tactics means absolutely nothing. Suggests to me that, rather than sitting down and thinking about how you are trying to play, you are frantically searching for a formation that gives you an advantage. You haven't thought about tactical gelling, how your player types interrelate, how the team should play given your player types, how to motivate your players, how to defend, how to score etc, etc.

Have, for example, you thought about which players you want moving between the lines? Or which players you want dropping deeper and dictating play? Do you know how to achieve either? To put it bluntly, if you aren't thinking like this and just randomly trying things out, I'd expect the AI to rip you to shreds. That is the sign of a robust, not bad, ME.

[wwfan]

Reduced the goalkeeper's CF to a minimum. 2nd point is also off, most of the goals i've conceded are from crosses, despite having mertesacker and Vermaelen in cd and Sirchesney being above average in Aerial ability. Bender and Arteta take care of the defensive side of my midfield with An Anchor and Deep-lying playmaker(s) role respectively. Cazorla's on the left with an advanced plymaker (A) duty and Jesus Navas is on the right with a Winger(A) duty. Strikers are Podolski or walcott with a poacher role or Giroud with A Targetman(a) role. I've always played with a fluid tactic, with a Quick tempo(2 or so notches into quick) and i usually start with a Standard strategy, usually shifting into control if i get the first goal.

Setting any players CF to a minimum is asking for trouble.

From the above, I'd suggest that this is what you are doing wrong:

You have all your advanced players on an Attacking duty, but have your central midfield sitting very deep. This will result in a degree of disconnect between your strata. To fix this, I'd suggest that you make sure one of your FBs (probably the one behind Carzorla) is a WB/Attack, as this will encourage him to overlap. You also need an FC in a support role, as the attack roles will detach them from the DLP, who will be so deep he cannot feed them. A fluid philosophy will actually contribute to the problem, as by default it detaches the defence from the attack somewhat. A balanced or very fluid philosophy would reduce this detachment.

I'd also be wary about increasing the tempo, as the standard strategy doesn't open up the required space. A quick tempo will mean that players are having to interchange quick passes in a relatively small area, which will result in a lot of mistakes, especially if the tactic isn't gelled. If you have shortened passing, this will be even more problematic. The quick passes in tight spaces and the disconnect between attack and midfield will result in players getting trapped in final third positions with nobody to pass to and shooting wildly.

[Vladel]

Yes, they should. If football was just about the best 11 players, then managers would not be paid many millions to manage them.

Trying 10 different tactics means absolutely nothing. Suggests to me that, rather than sitting down and thinking about how you are trying to play, you are frantically searching for a formation that gives you an advantage. You haven't thought about tactical gelling, how your player types interrelate, how the team should play given your player types, how to motivate your players, how to defend, how to score etc, etc.

Have, for example, you thought about which players you want moving between the lines? Or which players you want dropping deeper and dictating play? Do you know how to achieve either? To put it bluntly, if you aren't thinking like this and just randomly trying things out, I'd expect the AI to rip you to shreds. That is the sign of a robust, not bad, ME.

I do understand your point but you shouldn't think for a moment that anyone who plays this game doesn't think of such things. This is why we build teams and make formations that work with them (I have played for a long time). As for trying things out, i was not trying things out for an advantage, rather to see just how hell bent the game could be on inflicting an irrational loss on the player. And to your first point, yes football is for the most part about the best 11 players...... That's how we have champions.

With regard to the depth of thought that you are talking about with regards to tactics and running between lines............ do you honestly think a match engine that has bugs like keepers kicking to the opposition 80% of the time and has goals from corners yet no sliding tackles and all the other things folk are talking about can really think that in-depth? Or is it rather more based around random calculations based on a formula?

[V50]

Sorry to intrude on the angry affairs, but just want to ask what makes the AI arrange B Internationals? I love that they actually get played, but in-game they're a once-in-five-years affair in the game (simmed in full detail to 2030 so far), so what is it that causes them to be arranged?

[greekgeorge]

I'm playing with steam, but the match engine version is still 1309. Is there a way to update the game, since it doesn't seem to do it automatically? I've already quit the game and steam and started again but nothing happened.

[wally13]

I'm playing with steam, but the match engine version is still 1309. Is there a way to update the game, since it doesn't seem to do it automatically? I've already quit the game and steam and started again but nothing happened.

It's meant to be 1309

[wwfan]

With regard to the depth of thought that you are talking about with regards to tactics and running between lines............ do you honestly think a match engine that has bugs like keepers kicking to the opposition 80% of the time and has goals from corners yet no sliding tackles and all the other things folk are talking about can really think that in-depth? Or is it rather more based around random calculations based on a formula?

ME bugs and AI logic are completely different things. If the logic of the AI tactics is better than the logic of yours, then it will beat you more often than not. AI tactics will always have some players moving between the lines.

As far as I can tell, the GK distribution is a bug and has been fixed. However, a lower tackle count than FM12 is a move in the right direction, as tackles were too high across the board in FM12. I've yet to see a goal from a corner in my game, but they do happen in real life, so should be possible in FM. It would be a problem if it was a regular occurrence, not if it were a very occasional event.

[greekgeorge]

It's meant to be 1309

Is it? Fair enough then.

I saw the Match v1310 announcement in the ME thread and i thought it would update.

[wally13]

Is it? Fair enough then.

I saw the Match v1310 announcement in the ME thread and i thought it would update.

No mate that's just were there up to fix wise those fixes will be in the full game Friday

[MasterOfSuspense]

Someone mentioned Man of Match changed to Person of Match

WAY too much political correctness here - should always be the traditional MoM no matter what loony liberals think IMO

[greekgeorge]

No mate that's just were there up to fix wise those fixes will be in the full game Friday

I see. Cheers

[Fabio MVP]

Someone mentioned Man of Match changed to Person of Match

WAY too much political correctness here - should always be the traditional MoM no matter what loony liberals think IMO

Licencing issues.

[metal_guitarist]

Licencing issues.

That's pathetic to be honest, not from SI but whoever deemed that those words should be licensable.

[wally13]

That's pathetic to be honest, not from SI but whoever deemed that those words should be licensable.

Ohh Rah i'm baffled, 1 for us to fix

[metal_guitarist]

Ohh Rah i'm baffled, 1 for us to fix

Providing it's not hardcoded anyway

[Blueflash]

“I’ll tell ya the truth, Dad. I wasn’t good at it right away so I quit. I hope you’re not mad.” – Bart Simpson

“Son, come here, heh heh heh. Of course I’m not mad. If something’s hard to do then it’s not worth doing. You just stick that guitar in the closet next to your short wave radio, your karate outfit and your unicycle, and we’ll go inside and watch TV.” – Homer Simpson

Sorry, couldn't resist

Did you miss the part when i said i've been playing fm ever since i could remember? Also the part that says that i almost always start with a lower league club then work my way up? There's a difference between impatience and frustration.

[MasterOfSuspense]

I'll trademark "yes and no" and see how we get on with communicating with each other

I'm NOT lovin' it ®

[PaulC]

Yes, to clarify the fixes I posted are for the next update which will of course be the release version.

Beta has been fantastic for us this year, despite the rantings of a small minority. We'd be in a bit of a mess for release day without it; I am under no illusions as to how rough around the edges the ME was when beta first came out. But a beta is a beta and I am sure 99% of you understood that there would be issues and hopefully we have solved the worst of them! That was always the plan anyway

I also intend to do a fairly quick post release ME update in the first month or so once we've had a chance to recharge some batteries and take stock of what improvements we can make in that time frame.

[gurragnaget]

Did you miss the part when i said i've been playing fm ever since i could remember? Also the part that says that i almost always start with a lower league club then work my way up? There's a difference between impatience and frustration.

perhaps you've always taken advantage of ME exploits and can't do that this year and therefore you suck?

[Blueflash]

Setting any players CF to a minimum is asking for trouble.

From the above, I'd suggest that this is what you are doing wrong:

You have all your advanced players on an Attacking duty, but have your central midfield sitting very deep. This will result in a degree of disconnect between your strata. To fix this, I'd suggest that you make sure one of your FBs (probably the one behind Carzorla) is a WB/Attack, as this will encourage him to overlap. You also need an FC in a support role, as the attack roles will detach them from the DLP, who will be so deep he cannot feed them. A fluid philosophy will actually contribute to the problem, as by default it detaches the defence from the attack somewhat. A balanced or very fluid philosophy would reduce this detachment.

I'd also be wary about increasing the tempo, as the standard strategy doesn't open up the required space. A quick tempo will mean that players are having to interchange quick passes in a relatively small area, which will result in a lot of mistakes, especially if the tactic isn't gelled. If you have shortened passing, this will be even more problematic. The quick passes in tight spaces and the disconnect between attack and midfield will result in players getting trapped in final third positions with nobody to pass to and shooting wildly.

I shall try out your suggestion, Thanks.

[MasterOfSuspense]

perhaps you've always taken advantage of ME exploits and can't do that this year and therefore you suck?

LOL

I bet someone will find some exploit this year and everyone (even bad or impatient managers) will be happy

After all -- even Fergie wasn't god like until his 2nd season of management

[Blueflash]

perhaps you've always taken advantage of ME exploits and can't do that this year and therefore you suck?

Problem with this logic is that I rarely ever visit the forums and as such really have no idea about the ME exploits you speak of, perhaps I took advantage of it in past years, but never knowingly, more like "Hey, this works for me, lets do this".

[Deisler26]

all in all id say its like real life lol

4-1 to reading!!!

And now SOMEONE feels like a mug....

[Fabregas_04]

And now SOMEONE feels like a mug....

We need a "like" button

[Lawlore]

Licencing issues.

Even so, "Player of the Match" seems a bit awkwardly worded- it sticks out because MoM is so ingrained in football consciousness as a concept. Makes it sound like it's being deliberately gender-neutral, as if there are men and women playing together. "Star Player" seems a better linguistic option from where I'm sitting.

[omaroo]

WAIT! there is no man of the match.

Correct me if im wrong didnt fm12 have man of the match stated.

[Noel Gallagher]

Well I never!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/retailandconsumer/9546965/Man-of-the-Match-Well-send-the-bill-later.html

[Lower Leagues Rule]

And that in itself shows exactly what is wrong with Trademark and Patent law Worldwide.

[Hit the upright]

Someone mentioned Man of Match changed to Person of Match

WAY too much political correctness here - should always be the traditional MoM no matter what loony liberals think IMO

Ha, not loony liberals then, more the free market gone mad.

[MasterOfSuspense]

Ha, not loony liberals then, more the free market gone mad.

I blame Murdoch but TBH I blame him for most things including the Black Death (are we still allowed to call it that? )

Off to sleep to dream about taking the mighty Kings Langley from Level 10 to European glory ... or maybe just knobbing Charlize Theron as usual

[Vladis]

Pick a custom database and there you can modify it to your liking, assuming you are playing FM basic not FMC.

Of course i know. But when i choose players from top clubs of continent/region/country and load the game i don`t see them. Squads are gray.

[heliu5]

Is it possible for you to add the feature to train a new position in FMC? That would be helpful but doesn't hinder or slow down game-time at all and in my opinion won't seem too hard.

[Smac]

Is it possible for you to add the feature to train a new position in FMC? That would be helpful but doesn't hinder or slow down game-time at all and in my opinion won't seem too hard.

You train new positions in FMC by playing the players in the position you want. They learn by doing, and I assume faster than they would if you tried that in FM. Its a "feature" of FMC that by all accounts works alright.

[TOADman]

Someone mentioned Man of Match changed to Person of Match

WAY too much political correctness here - should always be the traditional MoM no matter what loony liberals think IMO

Women's Football in FM confirmed!

"Loony Liberals" hehe - there are still people who use that term who aren't on Sky News....

[omaroo]

So will the ME be fixed on release date.

I assume there will be updates if problems consist.

[Sancho Panza]

Yes, to clarify the fixes I posted are for the next update which will of course be the release version.

Beta has been fantastic for us this year, despite the rantings of a small minority. We'd be in a bit of a mess for release day without it; I am under no illusions as to how rough around the edges the ME was when beta first came out. But a beta is a beta and I am sure 99% of you understood that there would be issues and hopefully we have solved the worst of them! That was always the plan anyway

I also intend to do a fairly quick post release ME update in the first month or so once we've had a chance to recharge some batteries and take stock of what improvements we can make in that time frame.

What fixes are these, link someone?

[TOADman]

What fixes are these, link someone?

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/320432-Next-match-engine-update-fixes-so-far...(-updated-30th-October-)

[Jibby123]

I just had a player score from a throw in. As in literally. Long throw in to the penalty area missing a cluster and it going through the keepers hands. The commentry was something like "he certainly did mean that". I bet he didn't. The player taking the throw in was credited with it.